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How Power Works

I’ve noticed quite a few commenters in the last post expressing the opinion that, “Yes, the Obamaphiles and the DNC have really crossed the line but when it comes right down to it, I don’t want another Republican in the WH, so I’ll bite the bullet and vote for Obama if I have no other choice.”

And that’s just where Obama and the DNC want you. They want you to think you have nowhere else to go. You’ll come crawling back to them, despite all of the abuse and them taking you for granted. So, they will continue to dish it out against Clinton because they think they have you. You will never leave them.

That is not how personal power works, guys. At least not for you. You gain nothing if you allow them to bully you into voting for Obama instead of McCain. What will YOU, the stupid old bitch, “typical white person” get out of an Obama presidency? If he can ignore you now and treat you like $#$%, what makes you think he’s going to change after you’re married to him?

The power you have is in your choice NOW. The nomination hasn’t been cast in stone yet. You haven’t signed any legal papers. The Superdelegates are still watching the game play out. And here is your opportunity to make your point and exercise your power. All you have to do is say to the Superdelegates, “If you do not rein in the forces working for the Obama campaign and if you do not get the DNC’s thumb off the scales, you can not count on my support this fall. Period” The power is in the uncertainty. Don’t rule it out, just leave them hanging. Then the Superdelgates can watch the rest of this race with a more critical eye. Is Obama going too far? Have they let the media get away with too much misogyny? How angry is the base and can we afford to lose even a small percent of them? All things being equal, whose supporters can we least afford to lose?

If you do not lay down the gauntlet now, you *will* be forced to make an unthinkable decision in the fall. Now is the time to say you will not be forced to accept such a decision and that the Superdelegates are playing with fire if they pick the worng person.

No more of those comments please. You’ve been warned. This is your choice, right now.

Here is the list of Superdelegates who have not endorsed yet.

Update: Tucsonlynn went online and changed her registration to “No Party Preference”. That’s a good first strike. I recommend that TL send a letter to her superdelegates in her state and the DNC explaining why she did it and tell them that they still have a choice before the nomination. After the nomination, they can’t count on her.

113 Responses

  1. I’ve been seeing “I’ll never vote for Hillary” comments from Obama supporters for months, but they practically vanished when Hillary’s supporters started saying the same thing.

    Now they’re outraged at Hillary supporters.

    Ironically, these mostly white liberals keep saying if Obama is not the nominee then black voters will not support Hillary.

    A few months ago the party was united and Hillary was the frontrunner. So who’s being divisive?

  2. This is exactly my way of thinking. You don’t get anywhere if you promise that you’ll ultimately assimilate with the borg anyway. It’s just another case of winning the battle so that you can lose the war.

    This would be an excellent year for a third party candidate — Hillary, anyone? I’ll write her name in regardless of the outcome…

    Today’s gallup poll reveals that 28% of Hillary voters will vote for McCain if Obama is the candidate, while 19% of Obama-ites say they’ll vote for McCain if the tables are turned. We apparently aren’t the only “petulant ones” out there.

    Hillary supporters have more reason to be peeved because of how the media is portraying the candidates. Lest anyone forget, the Iraq War was a media darling too.

    BTW, my other email address is apparently getting caught by the spam filter. No worries, I didn’t post anything that important. However, if you’re wondering why your comment numbers are low, it might be due to others’ actually PERTINENT and interesting comments getting trashed, along with my boring ones.

  3. myiq2xu: I would hate to sound like a “typical white person” but the Obamaphiles should be reminded that the AA population is only about 15% of the population, and a lot of them are located in southern Republican states. Not only that, but HALF of the AA population, possibly slightly more, is Female. It seems to me that there could be plenty of support there in the fall. They have nothing to fear from a Hillary presidency.

  4. I have been writing and calling Pelosi, Dean etc letting them know where I stand.
    On April my husband and I WILL change our registration to not affiliated!
    You are absolutely correct- the power is ours, now! I will never again be bullied by any man> Gave it up 28 years ago, for good!
    Hillary or none for me! (and my husband, he hates men who push women around!)

  5. teresa23: sorry about that. Most of the spam consists of word salads and every possible thing that the human imagination is capable of sexually. I hate going through it. I’ll go fish out your stuff.

  6. Riverdaughter: Don’t worry about it. I was making snarky comments — and yesterday, so the story is already cold ;-). My comments may have been too short or something.

    Just telling you in the interest of alerting about a potential problem.

  7. riverdaughter,
    Thanks for the push. I had been considering it, but your line about taking steps made me realize I have to do something.
    I will have a stack of voter registration forms at an event for Hillary this weekend, and see how many others will do it. We can then take them in person to our county recorder who is an obamabot, and let her know that we are pissed.
    She might not win re-election withought our help so she will take note.
    This might just be fun!

  8. Guess I didn’t receive my “bite the bullet and vote for Obama” memo. Let me know which day to expect it, in the mail, and I’ll be sure NOT to be at home.

  9. edwardian: read anglachel’s journal today. I think she has a link to the offending reference.

  10. I am feeling pretty discouraged right now. The wags are still screaming for her to abandon her campaign. Thinking of taking a break from the net and other media for a few days as this is not helping my blood pressure. I feel like a Lewis Black clone.

  11. This is an incredible diary, as usual, riverdaughter. I am so pissed off by what is going on in the national party, and I want to take action!

    This year should be a landslide for the Dems, but the DNC is working very hard to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I’ll never vote for McCaca, but I’m very, very close to pledging that I’ll never vote for Obama either. And to think, a few weeks ago I was calling for a “Dream Team” joint ticket! Thank goodness Obama didn’t bite on that one.

    Do you know how I can find out who the superdelegates are for my state? I will definitely write them and tell them how I feel about an Obama nomination.

    Heartfelt thanks for all that you do.

  12. riverdaughter: Just read it, thanks. My reaction, in short: ARGH!

    What’s next: MSM/COM/DNC waving palms at the foot of “Barack of Nazareth” into the Convention? Absolutely ridiculous.

  13. A friend of mine who lives in North Carolina just received a telephone call from a woman who greeted her, “Hi, I am calling on behalf of the Obama campaign and the Democratic Party.” Whoa. The arrogance.

  14. I am STRONGLY considering McCain as an alternative to Hillary if she isn’t the nominee. I just can’t imagine getting my #2 pencil sharp for Obama. I read his US Senate record – I couldn’t find anything that would help a woman – other than a proposal to honor Rosa Parks. The thing is, on the social issues – McCain and Co. aren’t going to legislate anything that will impact ME (maybe my daughter – and honestly, it is the only thing giving me pause) but I am also quite certain that Obama would cave on those things anyway – daugters or not. He just isn’t a ‘stick to it’ guy. I haven’t seen him do anything hard. He requires a very clear path to get things done and I just don’t believe the future will hold that for him.

    The clencher for me was the liberal use of the ‘racism’ tag – it just reminds me too much of Bush using the ‘unpatriotic’ crap to push his agenda. The recent Hillary smears and Wright issue were icing on that cake.

  15. OK, I’m fed up now. A local columnist was cackling about how much ‘fun’ the sniper comments had been.

    I won’t be voting at all in November if Obama is the nominee, Kos, Dean et al can just have the party they’ve done so much to destroy.

    My only question is – where do I obtain a list of the superdelegates for each state so that I might inform them of the reason for my leaving?

  16. Again, I say to you all, I will never vote for Obama. If he is the candidate I will vote for McCain. We also have an open seat in our House District and a Senator up for re-election. If Obama is the candidate, I will vote Republican in both contests.
    Does anyone know where I might buy a bumper sticker or tee shirt or badge that says “Obama never” or “I will never vote for Obama” or something like that?

  17. Absolutely.
    Thank god for Ralph Nader.

  18. Sorry, it isn’t about what is in it for me-it is about how many dead bodies (American, Iraqi, Iranian) a President McCain will pile up compared to a President Obama. If you think the numbers will be comparable, fine. If not, well, the lesser of two evils is less evil.

  19. This is a site for supporting Hillary’s superdelegates…. they must all talk to each other, so maybe letting them know….
    lots of emails are listed.


  20. The clencher for me was the liberal use of the ‘racism’ tag – it just reminds me too much of Bush using the ‘unpatriotic’ crap to push his agenda.

    jjmtacoma – For you and me both.

    I honestly believe the BO campaign believed that would not only diminish Hillary in SC but her candidacy ALTOGETHER. When it didn’t, with more people were becoming frustrated by the nonsense of it all (no longer benefiting him in the process), SUDDENLY Obama emerges to feignly dismiss any suggestions of “racist” remarks from the Clintons. Too little, too late.

  21. tdraicer,
    Have you noticed how easily BO was socialized to the hate-spewing southside of Chicago culture despite his mother’s careful multicultural upbringing?
    How long do you think it will take him to be socialized to the great military-industrial-lobbying culture of DC?
    An hour? Two hours? A week?

  22. This is much too much. The thought of either an Obamaton or Clintonista voting republican or just staying home in November is deeply disturbing.

    The election of John McCain would lead to two staggering tragedies:

    1) At least, four years of a wasted Democratic majority in Congress. We have numbers but we don’t have two-thirds kind of numbers.

    2) The decisive and long term swing of the Supreme Court to conservative, republican values. Half of the liberal core of the court is either over 80 or pushing (Stevens and Ginsberg). They will not make it through another term. McCain will appoint much more conservative justices whose effects will be felt long past the next four years. Roe v. Wade will be overturned. Local governments will be given the freedom to criminalize homosexuality. The executive branch will allowed broad extensions of power.

    It’s just too nightmarish to think of. I don’t care if Mondale is the nominee. We’re democrats (you know, the people who oppose Bush).

    I am officially depressed.

  23. Wednesday, March 26, 2008
    Florida DNC appeal may bring back FL superdelegates

    Starting to percolate on the newswire is an appeal by DNC Floridian Jon Ausman. He is stating that DNC rules prohibit the Rules Committee from:

    a.) stripping Florida’s superdelegates of being seated at the national convention and
    b.) stripping Florida of all of its pledged delegates. He states that the penalty called for is a penalty of 1/2 of delegates (similar to what the RNC did to Florida and Michigan).

  24. Riverdaughter I agree with your diary completely. I have been saying for months now that I couldn’t support Obama in the general. He just doesn’t match up to what I want in a president. I am going to vote, as always, for the person I think will do the best job. I have never understood that whole hold your nose and vote for someone you don’t think would be a good president. At this juncture I am still planning on voting for a democrat in all the other races but I am having a hard time supporting a party that either doesn’t give a rats butt about their preferred agenda as they won’t stand up for it, ever; or that can’t properly organize and run a primary. If they can’t do the basics then they can’t legislate or lead. It is pretty simple. I think it is time for us to organize a couple of real alternative parties that aren’t rife with corruption, greed and power hungry blokes.

  25. I have a calmer perspective – when election day comes I will probably write in Hillary – if I must – and send a note to Maria Cantwell. I refuse to be disenfranchised by the DNC. I won’t stay home to “protest” – voting is a RIGHT won by women who didn’t back down.

    I am watching the media & DNC arm twisting to force the obama nomination and I just refuse to be a victim by giving him my vote as an entitlement.

  26. Ausman is claiming that (1) the party’s charter protects superdelegates from being stripped from a state and (2) party rules stipulate the penalty for an early primary is half, not all, of a state’s pledged delegation. The Leon County Democrat believes the appeal for superdelagates is his strongest argument, which committee member and Hillary Clinton advisor Harold Ickes said last week has “considerable validity.”

    In Michigan, where a do-over primary has also been left for dead, Herman had fewer options.

    “At this point … we don’t know what exactly the next steps will be in Michigan,” Herman said. “What we do know, as I said earlier, is that we will continue to engage party leaders and elected officials in Michigan, as well as in Florida, regarding ways that we can hopefully resolve these issues in accordance with the rules.”

  27. In the beginning, when BO was not vetted in the least, some people did say, as loyal party memebers that they would vote for BO.

    Speaking for myself, I never did say that. I did say I would make a decision based on vetting being done. In the last month I made the decision that I would NEVER vote of BO. I have notified DNC, H. Dean, D. Brazile, et al, that I felt that way and especially now that it is clear they are trying to shove an unqualified, empty suit down the partys throats, Not counting votes, bias shown in the most egregious manner – I am not going to list them, they are insulting to anyone with an IQ over 24, they are terribly wrong in assuming that they can make us accept their coup – terribly wrong and will be shown as the fools they are.

    One thing, well two things stand out in my mind. When we as a party have extremely good condidates – honorable, loaded with integrity and experience(Clinton and Edwards come to mind) they do everything in their power to destroy them? The second thing is why is the Dem party acting like the disgusting administration we must replace? Why do they think they can put in another empty suit candidate who is so very questionable in so many ways just like Bush? I am changing my political affliation to fit my values, which USED to be democratic, but now is independent.

    I read blogs all day long – the meme that was yesterday was “loyal to the D party – anything to keep McCain out” – now that they have shown they will disenfranchise the voters of FL/MI, now that their choosen Precious has been exposed to some vetting and, I find him lacking, as opposed to two months ago, I was saying show me what this man has done, what his values are. I will never vote for BO – under any circumstances. And I am not alone – there are literally millions of voters who will never go against their values. Bu$hit has tried to take our constitution and reduce it to rubble for one party. That constitution states as I recall, the rights of American citizens and the most important one is one citizen – one vote.

    How dare DNC, Moveon, some nitwits whom we thought were honorable try to take those rights away for an ill conceived bid for POTUS by an unqualified candidate. I care not what is motivating these actions by the aforementioned, greed, fame, power(use an empty suit as a tool?) – bit the bullet my butt.

    Did I mention Hillary Clinton fits my values and she and her family make me proud how very strong and gracious they are under fire – CONSTANT fire. If American citizens are so weak and stupid to allow the hateful MSM, MCM to continue to degrade good, decent, intelligent peole, not to mention the very party that is supposed to stand for those qualities, they shall get what they deserve. Hate and vileness.

    I am so disgusted by the remarks of the vile Obama driods – they lack depth and reasoning – they expose how unhuman(e) their are. I am for all human rights – not just one segment and I always have been and I have always acted on that premise. Please excuse my rant and the length. I am going to take bath and try to get the creepy crawly feeling off of me. These feeling are bought out by the remarks – disgusting vile one sided – by the droids of BO and his lack of honesty in running as “the one”.

    It is totally within our grasp to stand up as human beings for what is right. Tell the DNC how you really feel and what you really are going to do by doing it.

  28. I decided long ago that Obama will not get my vote. I was planning on writing in Hillary (if need be), rather than voting for McCain. My thought was that the DNC would then know that I am pissed, but if I voted for McCain there would be no tangible vote to hit the DNC over the head with. Since I llive in Maryland, Obama will win even if I vote for McCain.

  29. “I have a calmer perspective – when election day comes I will probably write in Hillary – if I must – and send a note to Maria Cantwell. I refuse to be disenfranchised by the DNC. I won’t stay home to “protest” – voting is a RIGHT won by women who didn’t back down.”

    I don’t think I could stay home, in protest, either. As I’m well aware that support for local and Congressional candidates, issues remain vital.

    Perhaps I should start a “Brothers-2-Bruthas 4 Hillary” campaign. 😛

  30. Willim, I think you’re missing the point. Many Hillary supporters do not feel comfortable in the Dem Party anymore. Obama and his supporters have consistently spit on Hillary supporters while sucking up to the GOP and Indies. The have behaved with little or no class and have institutionalized sexism an misogyny in the Party. They lie with impunity. And they lie about Democrats.

    Are you really surprised that Hillary supporters are upset? Personally, I haven’t thought about anything other than Hillary winning the nomination. Even after Hillary wins the nomination, the Dem Party has some serious boot licking to do if they want me to remain active. Their behavior is inexcusable. And its inexcusable no matter who the nominee ends up being.

  31. william: it’s only depressing if you are an Obama supporter. I don’t like the Republicans either. And I’m not like a Nader voter who is voting for some high minded principal. This *is* strategic for me. The Superdelegates are going to decide this thing and I am saying right here and now that they’d better think long and hard about it because they can’t count on me. If the Obama camp is spreading the idea that we’ll all just fall in line after the election, they are very much mistaken. After the election, he is going to have to earn my vote just like he would have to earn Bubba’s in Georgia. Now, if the superdelegates think he has the time, energy and wherewithal to do that, then I won’t stand in their way. But I don’t think he *is* going to have the time to do that. He is going to have to work twice as hard to win us back.
    As for the war, I have no confidence in Obama’s ability to put out this fire while the financial market is falling apart and we’re in a recession. None. He will be learning on the job and he will very quickly be overwhelmed. I want to get out of Iraq too and I understand the seriousness of the problem. So my question to all you anti-war people is, why aren’t you supporting the candidate who has the greatest probability to get us out?

  32. Morgan Brown is back in the Scripps National Spelling Bee a few tense days after the powers behind the contest yanked her eligibility over a paperwork blunder.

    The idiots at the spelling bee lightened up, let’s see if Howie can do the same….

  33. I find this completely ridiculous. I will support the Democratic nominee. Full stop.

  34. Sorry folks, but as much as I can’t stand all this Obamination, McCain or any republican will never have my vote. You’re fooling yourself if you think McCain will be a better president than Obama.

    If you’re a true democrat, you vote for the democratic nominee — period.

    A few weeks ago I was really proud of all my fellow Hillary supporters. But you here are beginning to sound just like the obamaniacs. I was really enjoying this blog, but it seems my place is definitely not here.

    In the end, a vote for McCain is a vote for Bush & Cheney. Thankfully there are still a few months ahead until election day, so I truly hope cooler minds will prevail.

  35. Honora: Since I llive in Maryland, Obama will win even if I vote for McCain.

    Michael Steele is making a case for himself as McCain’s VP pick by citing that he has more ‘executive experience’ than BO. LOL.

  36. Let FL and MI vote! Even if Hillary gets the popular vote lead after the 9 upcoming contests, I still want Florida and Michigan to have their voices heard.

    Michigan needs a revote more than Florida though. If they count the Jan. 29th results as official, thats ok and they did go out to vote in record numbers. Michigan needs a brand new one however.

  37. andgarden: what a pleasure to see you here. What brings you to the site? Have you forsaken the Great Orange Satan, the Site that Must Not be Named, too?

  38. http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/02/ultimate-delegate-tracker.html

    Great site for tracking delegates!!!!!!

  39. adngarden and Helen: I have never said that I would vote for John McCain. I *won’t* vote for a Republican. I would prefer to vote for the Democratic candidate but I refuse to have my vote taken for granted. it is important to me. I can’t tell what other people are going to do. All I can say is that the Superdelegates better give me a good reason to vote for the candidate they nominate. At this point, Obama isn’t going to win anyway. My voting for him won’t change that.
    I am not a sucker and I won’t be railroaded. The DNC and Obama are tearing this party to shreds and I want the superdelegates to put a stop to it or we will lose in November. And if you guys are going to stick to the idea that you will vote for the Democatic nominee regardless of who it is, you are only empowering Dean and Obama and the media to up their attacks on Clinton. So, tell the superdelegates to rein them in or when they go to count the votes for the fall, they can code me a REFUSE, meaning, “I’m not promising anyone anything”

  40. Honora: Since I llive in Maryland, Obama will win even if I vote for McCain.

    There has been a lot of water under the bridge since the Maryland primary….

  41. DCDem: Likewise. I’m on hiatus until/unless the other place stops being stupid. That might be forever.

    riverdaughter: I made a commitment a long time ago to be a ticket Democrat–in the fall. I won’t backtrack because of the way some people behave.

  42. Exactly riverdaughter. I’ve said this for months. I WILL NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS. I’ve already sent numerous emails to Pelosi and the DNC telling them that if MI and FL are not counted I will not send them any money and I will not vote for Obama in the general election. They don’t know that I won’t vote for him anyway even if the MI and FL delegates are seated but that’s their fault too. There really is no turning back. Clinton supporters are so pissed that many won’t vote for Obama if MI and FL are seated or even if Hillary is his VP which probably won’t happen anyway. I refuse to see Hillary remain Obama and the DNC’s bitch to use then give all of the credit to Obama for her hard work. I WILL NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA. Period. I hope all of you do the same. Polls have said at least 28% of Clinton supporters will support McCain if Obama wins the nomination. I think the number is higher. They aren’t counting the people like me who will not vote for McCain but will WRITE IN HILLARY ON MY BALLOT. There are also other Clinton supporters who would rather stay home and not vote for anyone. I’m going to guess people like the millions of elderly in FL who voted for Clinton won’t even bother going to the polls. Obama is in TROUBLE. I wouldn’t be surprised if he can’t get a good 40% of Clinton supporters if you count all the rest of us in that 28% who will vote for McCain.

  43. If you’re a true democrat, you vote for the democratic nominee — period.

    I for one have moved beyond my party right or wrong. It is my kids and their future….
    As a matter of fact, we don’t have a whole lot to lose anymore. We survived the first depression and the original herbert hoover hardscrabble, but we made it. We’ll make it through anything a McCain has or VP Jeb Bush offers.
    We are not facilitators of disaster, however. And Obama would be an unmitigated disaster.
    You would be amazed at the number of people who think like I do….

  44. I think people are getting antsy since we haven’t had an election that changes the status quo in so many weeks. The Obama people thought they were finally going to get rid of her after Ohio and Texas (I remember their glee at her firewalls esp. Texas supposedly collapsing and Bill’s last stand quote in those two states), but we know what happened there. Pennsylvania will change the picture and then its off to IN and NC.

  45. Well, I was voting for the candidate who I thought would be most likely to get us out of Iraq: John Edwards. Now that’s he’s gone (I’ve been bitter for a while), I’m just waiting to see who our nominee is. To be frank, I’m a little disgusted with both campaigns, but every time I think of staying home or voting McCain I just think of a greasy, sly grin sliding across Rush Limbaugh’s face and know that I would be making an inexcusable mistake.

    And that’s my point: neither of our potential nominees will have to “earn” my vote, because I am a democrat and I vote Democratic. Party politics is a zero sum game. Any move against one party is a move for the other. And there is no question–none–that both Obama and Clinton are superior candidates to McCain.

    If you want to take the position that Obama’s nomination will leave you undecided: fine, this is America. But know that you are no longer a democrat. You are only a Hillary supporter. And this makes your whole position so strange to me.

    Obviously, you support Hillary, yet you’re willing to strengthen the McCain campaign if she loses? Put another way, you’re willing to bolster a campaign (and even just not supporting Obama does exactly that) even if that campaign has policies contradictory to much of Clinton stands for i.e. universal health care, withdrawal from Iraq, the modification of Nafta, a pro-choice court, and the removal of tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy?

    Without addressing “character” (whatever that means in the vicious game that is mass-media politics), Obama and Clinton are different in their policy positions but only marginally so. It is a Boston to New York difference.

    The difference between McCain and Clinton (or Obama for that matter) is more of a Boston to New Delhi difference. And there is no excuse for anyone who actually endorses Hillary’s policy positions (not her but her positions) to lend support to McCain.

    We’re democrats. We need to act like it.

  46. William: I would argue that I am a true Democrat. I didn’t start out as a Hillary supporter. I initially supported Edwards. I came to appreciate her over time and one of the reasons for my support is because *she’s* the true Democrat. I don’t know what Obama is but I would strongly caution the people who are supporting him, I mean the party leaders, that if he is this destructive before the nomination, he will not think twice about running you over if he wins the WH. And if it turns out that he starts using all of the executive privelege Bush leaves him, it won’t make much difference how much he owes Pelosi and Kennedy and Dean. We may get stuck with someone who is NOT a true Democrat.
    As for acting like a Democrat, I am volunteering in PA to get the TRUE Democrat elected. That’s acting like it. Checking my brain at the voting booth is not.

  47. prohillary- I agree that the Maryland primary was a ‘snap shot in time’ and not reflective my state’s views now. Unfortunately, it was held at a time when Clinton had no money and wrote off states. However, Maryland will go Democratic this election. My rambling was more about my belief that by writing in Clinton rather than voting for McCain I would be rubbing it in the face of the DNC, and maybe they would be reluctant to ‘dis’ women the next time

  48. Guys, I’ve been deleting a lot of comments that use the word Billary. Does anyone here object?

  49. If you sincerely think that McCain is more likely to support and implement a platform more akin to Clinton’s than Obama would, you have left the realm of political reality.

    McCain openly supports: Nafta, the current health care system, the war in Iraq, the end of women’s choice, the sanctity of marriage, reduced corporate taxes, tax cuts for the highest tax brackets, increased government defense spending, and the invasion of Iran.

    Obama is the opposite of that. And so is Clinton.

    Do not let two increasingly vindictive campaigns so skew your thinking that you lose sight of the real enemies here.

    Let’s keep our eye on the ball.

  50. As a long time Dem, it pains me to say this:
    If Obama wins the White House, we would be better off with the Repugs in control of the Senate.
    You have no idea what kind of nominations Obama would make to the Supreme Court.
    Obama is a religious fundamentalist and has said he believes in the literal interpretation of the bible and he has said that marriage should only be between a man and a woman. He believes life begins at conception.
    A womans right to choose and equal rights for GLBT are big issues for me.
    Obama has talked out of both sides of his mouth many times and this will be no different..
    You dont know what kind of a nominations to SCOTUS he would make.

  51. What a sad bunch. This is not “how power works.” This is how people whine and pout. Power, political power, comes from working hard and picking your battles well. It comes from building coalitions, trying to understand one another, creating a common vision of a world we want to live in and working toward that vision. Hillary has long worked this way and should be commended for it. She understands the value of compromise in politicts and the role we all have, whether we win or lose an election, to get up each day and make this world better.

    If it comes to Obama being the Democratic candidate rather than Hillary, are you really going to toss the baby out with the bathwater and facilitate a McCain victory in the fall? Now is not the time to answer that question. Now we are in the midst of a hard-fought primary with BOTH sides getting testy and contentious. But when that time _does_ come, and if at that time it is Obama running for president and not Clinton, I sincerely hope you give yourself some time to decompress, take an honest look at the candidates running, and realize that the last thing this country needs is another four years of Republican leadership.

    If it comes to that point, voting for Nader or writing in Hillary is a waste or worse. If it comes to that point, your country will be depending on your ability to pick yourself up, take another step into the future, and set us on a course to recovery.

    I love Hillary. I think Obama is terrific. So maybe I have an easier time of this than some of you. I hope that the bile and divisiveness practiced on this site can serve as a catharsis and help you let go if things don’t swing Hillary’s direction. This country needs a unified Democratic party in the fall, I’m afraid for what we become if we don’t knock this team out of the exectutive.

  52. I’ve actually been comteplating the same thing, and I hate to say it. If old rich men in power manage to crush the most poweful woman in politics, it won’t matter to me or other women which male gets in. ALL women will suffer under EITHER presidency, McCain or Obama.

    Either we have the same old white farts in charge who can’t lever themselves up out of their easy chairs to crap on us more than they have for the past few decades, or else we get a whole new, very energized army of Kos-bots and young white woman-hating males on the rampage, drunk frat-boys on the streets looking to celebrating shoving it up that dried-up old bitch’s ass.

    So do NOT moan at me about how I’m the problem for not caving like a good little droid and letting the rich old male assholes in charge stick it to me again, decide when they think it should be our turn. That shit’s OVER.

    Women got the vote precisely by threatening to throw the election to the other party in the places where we had it, state by state. Next election cycle, we got it.

    Same here. We get a woman president, or we get a Republican. Fuck this noise.

  53. William, my “ball” is not yours and never will be.

    My “ball” is a liberal woman president. NOW OR NEVER.

    Maybe I should say NOW OR ELSE.

  54. William: I believe I have made it clear that I won’t vote for McCain. But I need to point out the irony of promoting a woman’s right to choose as a reason for voting for Obama when his campaign has done a great job of isolating us and calling us old, uneducated women. Old women have very little need for abortions and if our daughters need them, we usually have the cash to get them out of the country. Younger women should have thought about this when they went out of their way to tell us that we’re old has been feminists and that we needed to get over it and embrace Obama’s audaciousness.
    Talk about slitting your own throat…

  55. Rice in MN: Um, the decision has not been made yet. As long as the superdelegates have a choice, we are encouraging them to not let the party be divided this way. We are righteously angry that our votes are considered illegitmate because we voted for Clinton. And we’re not going to give it to Obama unless he makes an effort to get our votes. And at this point, he’s going to really have to grovel. My vote in the GE is not an automatic plus in Obama’s column. He hasn’t proven to me that he supports MY Democratic party or even my party in general. So, the superdelegates have to decide if they need my vote or not. Because I don’t want to have to be in that voting booth and have no reason to vote for president of *either* party. They’d better give me a reason.

  56. I’ve got to yell a little more on this — William, who the hell do you think you are telling me where the “ball” is? You nkow what the “ball” is for me — BEING TREATED LIKE A FUCKING HUMAN BEING.

    You think it matters to me whether I’m called a cunt, a whore, a dried-up old bitch, a sperm receptable, or a cocksucker by a Democrat or a Republican? You think that working for or with a guy like that in the workplace makes a difference? You think that the Obama-bots who makes jokes about the state of Hillary Clinton’s pussy and the extracurricular habits of her daughter are suddenly going to be high-minded and fair when the time comes for promotions and raises? You think they’re going to give a rat’s furry little asshole about passing laws protecting poor single mothers’ rights, all of a sudden?

    I don’t give a damn who’s calling me a cunt, who’s getting in the way of my advance at work, who’s sneering and laughing and making jokes about fraternity rape, who they voted for, which party they belong to. They all belong to the same party as far as I’m concerned — the woman-hating party.

    Maybe you can sit in a fantasyland and pretend that there’s an ounce of difference between these turds because you’ll wind up on the top shelf no matter which one wins. I don’t have that luxury; no woman does.

    Do NOT presume that your “balls” are the same as mine. Ever.

  57. Barack Obama has received a 100% rating from Planned Parenthood and in both 1997 and 2000 voted against right wind bills in the Illinois Senate that would have limited a woman’s right to choose. McCain is adamantly anti-abortion.

    Barack Obama is against gay marriage. So is Hillary Clinton (remember the defense of marriage act everyone?). They both support civil unions. That is pretty much democrat status quo. On the other hand, McCain doesn’t even support civil unions.

    As far as, Barack being a “fundamentalist” who demand “literal interpretation” of the bible, I point to the justice who Obama admittedly admires most: Earl Warren. He’s about as far away from an originalist as you can get.

    If you don’t want to vote for a candidate, fine. But don’t make things up.

  58. I’ve got to yell a little more on this — William, who the hell do you think you are telling me where the “ball” is? You nkow what the “ball” is for me — BEING TREATED LIKE A FUCKING HUMAN BEING.

    You think it matters to me whether I’m called a cunt, a whore, a dried-up old bitch, a sperm receptable, or a cocksucker by a Democrat or a Republican? You think that working for or with a guy like that in the workplace makes a difference? You think that the Obama-bots who makes jokes about the state of Hillary Clinton’s pussy and the extracurricular habits of her daughter are suddenly going to be high-minded and fair when the time comes for promotions and raises? You think they’re going to give a rat’s furry little asshole about passing laws protecting poor single mothers’ rights, all of a sudden?

    I don’t give a damn who’s calling me a cunt, who’s getting in the way of my advance at work, who’s sneering and laughing and making jokes about fraternity rape, who they voted for, which party they belong to. They all belong to the same party as far as I’m concerned — the woman-hating party.

    Maybe you can sit in a fantasyland and pretend that there’s an ounce of difference between these turds because you’ll wind up on the top shelf no matter which one wins. I don’t have that luxury; no woman does.

    Do NOT presume that your “balls” are the same as mine. Ever.

  59. “… voting is a RIGHT won by women who didn’t back down.”

    PRECISELY. Votingt is a right won by women who got sick of being sidelined and threatened to throw an election if it were not immediately handed over at the federal level. Women had won the vote on a state-by-state level with juuuuust enough numbers to tip the election.

    Everyone needs to familiarize themselves with history — voting was FOUGHT FOR AND WON by women who didn’t back down and who played nasty hardball with their own party — who, exactly as is being suggested now — threatened to throw an election unless their aim was won.

    There is historical precedent for this, and it’s strong. We get a woman nominate, or we throw the election. Alice Paul would be proud.

  60. Ooo, Janis, that was good! I can never say the “c” word. But you seem to know what you’re doing. 😉

  61. William: I think you missed my point entirely. Maybe you might like to take a break and visit another blog for awhile. We won’t be offended.

  62. This campaign ain’t over yet, folks. Let’s not focus on a worst case scenario, let’s focus, as RD posted, on how we can apply power:
    1. If you’re in a state that has yet to vote, then campaign your you-know-what-off for Hillary

    2. Email, write, call as many times as possible to let your views knows to the DNC establishment, regarding Fl and Mi.

    3. Fight the anti-HRC memes, whoever spreads them (the Big Boyz Blogz, the Media, Rush Limbaugh, the right-wing radio)

    4. Generally, do what we can to make Hillary the nominee, then, we won’t be faced with a choice we don’t want. (that might mean $$)

    The primary ain’t over, folks, not by a long shot.!! Let’s keep our focus on putting Hillary at the top of the Democratic ticket.

  63. Frenchdoc: Oui! Oui!

  64. riverdaughter, I rarely mind “cunt” most times, unless said viciously. I think I just never heard it when I was a kid, so it doesn’t have any emotional currency for me. when someone nowdays calls me a cunt, my reply is usually along the lines of, “Huh? No, dear. I’m not a cunt. I have a cunt. What I am is a bitch. To you, at least. But only to you. Life sucks, doesn’t it?”

  65. riverdaughter: My own sense is that I could vote for Obama a thousand times in the fall, and it wouldn’t matter a lick. I am a yellow dog, and I’ve never in 32 years of voting voted for a Republican, but when I imagine a pollster asking me where I stand between Obama and McCain, I think, “Undecided.” Even so, I probably would close my eyes and pretend I was voting for Hillary when I voted for Obama; it would make it palatable. In any case, I am hoping Hillary will pull this off.

  66. andgarden: I poured my heart into the Site that Must Not Be Named for four years. I confess I feel incredibly betrayed by the way those people treated us.

  67. I’m on a roll, keep your arms and legs inside the car at all times, please.

    riverdaughter, you know what the problem is with these people? They think a vote for a candidate is a vote for one disconnected individual, that it doesn’t percolate out into the world — it’s just butter pecan versus chocolate ice cream for dessert or something, then you get up and the world is otherwise unchanged.

    They don’t SEE that a vote for a candidate is a vote for the entire power structure that supports them and a vote for everyone else who supports them. A vote for Obama will put people like those horrific woman-hating creatures at DKos and elsewhere on the top shelf, simply because it will. It’s not a matter of stick your fingers in your ears and pretend it won’t, clap for the fairies and just pretend it’s not happening.

    A victory for Obama is a victory for them. And a massive, massive loss for us.

    Who do we write to? E-mail and written.

  68. Janis: I’m not sure what “top shelf” you think I, a homosexual Native American who lives in Texas, would be on. I’m interested to learn.

    But thank you. I like to be compared to misogynists, since clearly my remarks were insulting to women.

    And I know I was being incredibly rude, vulgar, and unreasonable and deserved that.

    Oh, wait. That’s not true at all. But, Riverdaughter, you get your wish. I’ll go work on my Camaro now and do other manly things.

  69. William, on March 26th, 2008 at 2:45 pm Said:

    As DEMOCRATS, I’ve sat by and watched TRUE BLUE, LOYALIST Dems in their 40’s, 50’s, 60’s on up, be marginalized, and ignored after they’ve dedicated money, time, and life…not to mentioned be wiped away with the label “racist” attached to them, because they don’t like Obama’s race-baiting.

    And he HAS race baited.

    His record is basically a house of cards.

    This guy has a record of involving himself with divisive figures, and I scoff..SCOFF at anyone who tries to tell me it’s worth it for the party.

    As a DEMOCRAT you would be outraged that Michigan and Florida voters are being ignored; remember 2000!!?!?!

    If obama is elected, the people have usurped power (latte sipping elites vs. true blue core dems) the Democratic Party, will not deserve any respect from the way they’ve abused the voters in Michigan and Florida, to the way they’ve sat back laughed, giggled, and encouraged the PERSONAL CHARACTER ASSASSINATION OF BILL AND HILLARY CLINTON.

    See: richardson, cantwell for the most obvious.

    Sorry William, but obama lovers and so-called “democrats” are going to be severely disappointed in November if Obama gets the nom.

    From what william and people like him are saying, it’s the equivalent of republicans voting for Kerry in 2004, and the neo-cons whipping them into shape.



  70. oh, and not that it matters, but i’m a guy.

  71. Janis: Yep, I think I even wrote a post about it awhile back. Don’t feel like searching for hit but it was something like, If she loses, we all lose.

  72. I think William is an Obama supporter who is willing to vote for Hillary but that puts him in the position of not really understanding where we are coming from.

  73. Yeah William — and Barack Obama is a biracial man raised otuside the US mostly, so he also has no male privilege that ANY rich white male establishment wouldn’t use for their purposes to shut up dem bitchez. Pull the other one, it’s got bells on.

  74. DV: William seems sincere enough and I don’t want him to give up on Hillary. But you are right when you said he doesn’t know where we’re coming from. He is just missing the point of the Obamanation’s attack on the very people they need to win this thing in the fall. Some of us are so angry that we a.) won’t lift a finger to help him if he is the nominee and b.) may not be able to summon up enough capacity to forgive so we can vote for him. I know that if I am standing in that voting booth and he hasn’t made an effort to win my vote, I may have my left hand hovering over his name and my right hand hovering over the cast ballots button and which hand wins out, I can not tell at this point in time.

  75. And what are the e-mail and snail mail addresses for the DNC? I could probably find a dozen of them and never know which was the right one.

    Where do I send me delicately worded threats to vote for and send money to the campaign of John McCain? O:-)

  76. I’d also like to see William’s response as a homosexual Native American had Obama been campaigning against Gavin Newsom for the past several months and trashing him at every available opportunity, thus enabling DKos and the other toilets of the Internet to go off on a thousand and one tears at gay men.

    I’m not even sure that would happen. Women are always and eternally the psychological toilet of the world into which one can dump anything without apology. We’re pretty unique in that vein.

  77. Seriously, just let the people vote and figure these things out at the end of the primary. Hillary is behind right now but then so were the New York Giants. All she needs is one touchdown and there’s a couple of opportunities for her in the upcoming contests.

  78. Hey Hillary Supporters!

    I wrote a letter to the Super Delegates, and I got a list of Super Delegates in California to write to. I went to their websites, and tried to write an email to them, but because I’m not in their district they will not accept my email.

    Does anyone know how I can get contact emails for these Super Delegates?

  79. Janis,

    You rock, woman!

  80. McCain can’t be that bad — Bush is a shithead, but McCain — unlike Bush AND Obama — never disenfranchised whole states’ worth of voters.

    Who was that one gay fellow — Mark something-or-other — who died on Flight 93 who was a booster for John McCain’s presidential campaign? Sure, McCain might not have wanted to be seen with him in daylight, but at least he didn’t refuse to have his picture taken with the gay mayor of San Francisco so that one’s a little pot-kettle to my ears.

  81. I also don’t want to hear anybody complaining about DON’T YOU KNOW HOW HIGH THE STAKES ARE IN THIS ELECTION? because the height or the stakes, if you notice, works in our favor.

    I know that Hillary has said she’d campaign for Obama. She has to say that, and she probably also believes it. It’s like when they all say they’re pro-choice butabortionisaterriblethingtohavetodo. It’s just what they say.

    And to be honest, much as I adore that woman and much as I’d put my nads on the line for her, this isn’t just about her. This is bigger than her or what she wants. It’s about what WE want, and about what I want. And I want a goddamned woman president NOW.

    We’ve been softpedaled and backburnered for years — Shirley Chisolm, Pat Schroeder, Carol Mosely-Braun, even Victoria Woodhull. I’ve fucking HAD IT. I’m sick of it. Fucking sick of it.

    Either we get a woman nominate, or everyone gets John McCain. PERIOD. The stakes are in our favor, people. What say ye?

  82. and I’m not being casual about the war in Iraq, either. Do you really think Obama has the chops to end that anyhow? Sure, he gave a speech against it once before he had a Senate career to risk.

    Then, when he got in office, he caved and started playing the game by the old rules, and it was business as usual.

    Why do yall think it’ll be any different now?

    HILLARY CLINTON will get us the hell out of Iraq. NO ONE else. So we get her, or else. Period.

  83. William, there’s a lot of frustration about being ignored and disrespected repeatedly by the Obama campaign and DNC. I’m sure you can understand that.

    No excuse here. I’ve said I wouldn’t vote for Sen. Obama either. But then, maybe I don’t have to.

    Somebody here said that power is about getting shit done (I’m paraphrasing, but anyway). I disagree—doing what’s right often means getting shit done. Power is more often about looking like you get things done.

    This is a big difference between Sen. Clinton and Sen. Obama for me. She gets shit done. I like that.

    Power is also about the threat of making something happen. There’s a lot of time between now and Novemeber, William. Lots of people need a bit persuading that yes, indeedy, we Clinton supporters wield a mighty big stick in this great pinata called the Democratic primaries. And the pres election.

    (“Stick” as in pinata “whacking device” not as in “boy parts.” No double entendre intended.)

    Give us our fury because dammit, we earned the right to be seriously pissed off. So did a lot of people. We got smeared with some pretty foul stuff—racist and stupid being the top two labels I can think of. There are others.

    I can’t blame anyone for saying, “hell with you, dude,” and walking. I’ve said it myself. But it ain’t over yet. Not by a long ways. And if Sen. Clinton does not get the nomination, there’s plenty of time for Sen. Obama’s supporters to apologize and make it worth my while to vote for him.

    And I can think of several things he’ll have to guarantee to get my support. Kissing my ass big-time is first on the list.

    BTW, I have a deep fondness for Camaros. Hope it’s painted speeding-ticket red.

    Now for the hatin’. I’m calling you on your shit.

    Janis, you sound like a fucking nutbar.

    riverdaughter, if you want to boot me, that is absolutely your perogative and I respect it.

  84. it seems to me that back in 2006 we elected democrats for a very specific purpose. they did a great job getting us out of Iraq, didn’t they?

    I have no loyalty at this point for the democratic party. they took our votes and knew exactly why they got them, but chose to keep funding the war.

    I really want Hillary to be president for many reasons, but I will not engage in blind party loyalty. that loyalty is obviously a one way street.

    I was already feeling this way before it became obvious that older women no longer count in the party, except as voters to be taken for granted.

  85. Janis,

    shit, I’m glad you’re on our side.

    ” What I am is a bitch”

    Scary bitch too. Nice to meet you.

  86. Um … thanks. :-}

    I should work on writing this up. And WE need to work on getting this meme out.

  87. several have opined that a president mccain will outlaw abortion, turn back gay rights and load the supreme court with right wing justices. to that, I say: we had, for a while, a few years ago, a republican administration, congress and s.c. abortion was not outlawed when they had all the players in place to do it. I honestly think abortion and gay marriage are much more important to the right wing as wedge issues in election years than as any sort of moral issues. they had the chance – they didn’t take it. if they outlawed abortion, what would they use to get out the fundy voters when they need them?

    supreme court justices are a legitimate concern. that’s why it’s important to have a balance between the administrative and legislative branches. when there’s gridlock, the people generally win. so if it looks like a president mccain, we simply need to work to load the congress against him.

  88. Ohio: I agree with much of what you say. Except that Janis is a fucking nutbar. She’s just pissed. Let her vent.

  89. Wow – that was exhausting and exhilirating all at the same time.

    What a string of comments! Yea! Love you Janis…and I’m right there with you, screaming, typing and not voting for Obama…no matter what!

  90. riverdaughter, it’s worked in the past, really. It got us the vote. *shrug* As long as we can be taken for granted, we will be taken for granted.

  91. Chris, that’s not how SCOTUS dynamics work. Congress and Presidents are only relevant insofar as they can place politically like-minded justices on the courts.


    When Bush entered office the court looked like this:

    Liberal justices:

    Souter, Ginsberg, Stevens, Breyer.

    Conservative Justices:

    Rehnquist, Scalia, Thomas

    Swing Justices

    O’Connor (slightly left leaning), Kennedy (slightly right leaning).

    The Court, here, even with a republican congress and presidency can’t make any real shifts, because the liberal stronghold is still four strong plus there are two swing votes. This isn’t enough to overturn Roe v. Wade. They need five solid votes.

    During Bush’s term so far two justices have resigned: Rehnquist and O’Connor. Bush replaced them with one superbly skilled but clearly conservative justice (Roberts) and one hack conservative (Alito).

    The court then now looks like this:

    Liberal justices:

    Stevens, Ginsberg, Breyer, Souter


    Roberts, Alito, Thomas, Scalia



    Note that Conservative stronghold still lacks a vote to entirely overturn Roe v. Wade as Kennedy supports it for the most part. He is also fairly liberal on gay issues.

    The problem is that in the next four years, it is almost certain that Stevens and Ginsberg will resign. This is half the liberal stronghold. If a conservative president is in office, he will have the chance to replace them with conservative justices. Because Congress will hopefully be democratic at that point, he won’t be able to get in an Alito. But another two justices like Roberts is very likely and very scary. The court would then have six conservative votes, two liberal, and one swing.

    That’s a bench that could do a lot of scary things even if four years later we got a democrat in the WH.

  92. Also, if I’m essentially saying the same thing as this post — “You can’t count on my vote if Obama’s the nominee” — I’m not really sure where the “nutbar” epithet comes from.

  93. I am from western MA, one of the most liberal states in the US. Easter Sunday dinner included 4 very educated males who insisted that if Obama becomes the nominee they will switch their votes to McCain. Why, because they consider him to be a “hero” and extremely patriotic. The do no see Obama in the same way. We are also the state who voted for Deval Patrick for governor. Most citizens of MA think he is the biggest mistake ever to come on the scene, this since he succeeded Mitt Romney! If northern white educated liberal bending males are talking about switching to McCain in Nov., imagine those southern white males will do. This is a mess.

  94. Pat Johnson: That is an interesting observation (war hero meme). I will not vote R, period, but have heard other D echoing similar feelings.

  95. Janis – you are the bomb. I’m kinda new to all these political blogs. I didn’t know that others were as pissed off as I am and that we can actually make the Hope-Pope lose. You’re right – that’s really the only power these liberal-punk-boyz will respect in the end. These Starbucks liberal white boyz will only respect women and Dunkin’ Donuts Democratic Lifers if we MAKE them respect us!

    We have to threaten the general election, and such threats are useless unless we carry them out. I look at my upcoming write-in vote for Hillary in November as an investment in the next Democratic primary cycle. Thereafter, any candidate running against a woman in the Democratic primary will be *VERY* careful about about using mysoginistic language and relying on a gender-related double standard exacerbated by the MSM.

    And why will it be different next Democratic primary cycle? Because they know we’ll f**k them up if they do it again. And how will they know this? Because we did it last time (i.e. in the upcoming November election).

    I don’t mind Hillary losing in a fair fight. What I DO mind, and I WILL NOT tolerate, is her losing in a fight in which Obama uses sexist language against her (his “tea party” comment, his “the claws are coming out” comment, his “you’re likeable enough” comment) and relies upon and does not denounce the sexist double standard that is structurally in place.

    There’s no friggin’ way I’m swallowing that and coming back to the fold. I will burn my own house down to see you lose in a situation like this. Call it what you want – infantile, irrational, not-playing-nicey with the liberal punk boys. Whatever. The fact of the matter is that:


    These f**kers better realize that this ain’t date-rape-liberal-frat-boy land where they tell us we actually consented after slipping us a roofie. We will f**k your shit up, punks!

  96. William, your points re: the Supremes. But I’d like to say that there is another option here.

    I am neither for nor against. And frankly, we let this one get whispered about and it will scare the Obama campaign and the DNC leadership but good.

    Sen. Clinton already has a reputation for doing anything to win. Yep, reason number 423 to like her.

    Why not let slip that if she is not the nominee, she may very well cut a deal regarding the Supremes with Sen. McCain?

    All she has to do is leave the convention and says nothing beyond, “Well, we gave it a good go.” And nothing else.

    She could do nothing and let Obama’s campaign and the DNC leadership go down in flames.

    They think she’s as unscrupulous and malicious as all that, so let them stew in it awhile. There’s already the new snappy tag that she’s going to destroy Obama so she can run in 2012.

    You can’t fight that paranoia and win. You can only feed it.

    I really am quite devious.

  97. BTW, riverdaughter, I yield to your magnificence.

  98. Chinaberry Turtle: ″…investment…next….cycle″

    I hear you. I will be doing it for different reasons than you but I also see it as an investment in the future.

    ..and for those of you who think that the sky will fall if we don’t vote for Obama, if he were to make it, I do not agree.

    Anway…let’s help Hillay make it and then worry…

  99. I’m shouting it to the world, if Hillary doesn’t win the nomination, I will write her name in when I vote in the general election. If this is how the DNC wants it then by all means, here’s the backlash:-)

  100. William, I meant an opposition congress can block a conservative judge – it’s been done before.

    Chinaberry, as long as you’re feeding your rage don’t forget Obama saying Hillary gets feeling down “periodically” and lashes out. I wonder how any woman can support him.

  101. Ok, I’ll bite. 😉 What’s a “nutbar?” Baby Ruth? Almond Joy? Snickers?

  102. Obama’s a jerk and at this point I’d vote for a side of beef over him in the Democratic primary (lucky me, I get to vote for an Actual Superior Candidate instead!). But the discussion about whom I would vote for in a hypothetical Obama vs. McCain general election is silly. Of course I would vote for Obama. It’s a sign of the depravity of many Obama supporters that they claim that they wouldn’t vote for Clinton in a Clinton vs. McCain election, and while I have nothing in principle against fighting depravity with depravity, in this case I think it would be a bad deal for people in the US and around the world. It’s not a yellow-dog issue–I’d vote for Mike Bloomberg over Obama–but rather an issue of the greater good vs. sour grapes.

    In any event, Clinton will (I hope) be the nominee, so all of this political-ethical reflection will be the stuff of Obamista blogs and not this one.

  103. Look, we’ve watched the entire Democratic Establishment do everything it can to torpedo the qualified candidate in the race in favor of someone who’s just not ready for primetime. Purely conincidentally, no doubt, she just happens to be the first major female candidate ever, and just happens to face gross misogynistic attacks from her own party. I really don’t think we can blame women for not wanting to line up and support the Democratic Party. This is a hell of a way to accomplish what we need to accomplish, increasing turnout among our likely voters.

    And I’m tired of being scared about the Supreme Court. We won’t have enough votes to overcome a fillibuster even if half our caucus didn’t vote with the Republicans most of the time. That means the Republicans will select the Supreme Court Justices, regardless of who’s President. Sure, no Alito, who put Alito on teh Court? The Democratic Senate? That’s not how Republicans do it. Obama will never try to put up a fight anyway, he wants to bring us together. And Mccain may want to bomb Iran, but not Pakistan.

  104. The Senate was not Democratic in January 2006. A Republican controlled Congress confirmed him 58-42. Four democrats broke the party line.

  105. Sickofthis: I do agree with you about the Supreme Court. Its significance in American life has been vastly overstated, in my opinion, and that’s giving due importance to reproductive rights as an issue. Democrats have been paralyzed as a policy force because they put so much worry into the judicial side of things–in the mistaken belief that conservatives’ success came in this fashion. It didn’t–they won in the Congress and in administrative rulemaking, and judicial appointments were just wallpaper.

  106. Ditto everything Janis and Chinaberry Turtle ..!


    exactly ….


  107. Perhaps the Supreme Court isn’t all that.

    But I think there may be some huge issues coming that will requir a Court that rules properly. As in, the way I want them to. Heh. That’s a joke.

    I don’t think so much of abortion but of other issues.

    With Sen. Clinton, there will be an overhaul of Medicare. Costa, I believe, said it before and I apologize for putting words in your mouth: Medicare is a looming disaster.

    There will be legal challenges to any changes to Medicare or to combinate it with universal healthcare.

    There may be a legal challenge to DOMA based on full faith and credit and Rodriguez regarding marriage. It may also come from human rights protections in some treaties. Note: I do not say gay marriage. My marriage is as real as yours is, thanks.

    (I believe Pres. Clinton intended for DOMA as a temporary block against the marriage amendment. It was by far the lesser of two evils as a law can be struck down but an amendment requires repeal.)

    There may be a chance of a rollback on some drug laws—mandatory sentencing, pot for personal use, etc. Did anything happen regarding crack vs. powdered campaign sentencing disparities? For the record, what a crack—that legislation is racist, period. Anyway, if that stuff hasn’t been challenged, it probably will be.

    There will be legal challenges requiring national ID.

    There will be more legal challenges regarding torture, rendition, and those fucking mercenaries.

    There may be challenges regarding right-to-die issues.

    There may be a final ruling on the death penalty.

    There will be legal challenges on civil rights and executive power.

    There may be another legal challenge regarding church v. state. BTW, why is religion a goddamn litmus test for electability? “Yes, I believe in a magic person! Pick me!” “But I believe in a magic person and magic underwear! Pick me instead!”


  108. Keep rockin Janis! This feminist white gay Berkeley CA resident couldn’t agree with you more. I’m of the same mind as many here – I will vote for Hillary Clinton in the general election if I have to write her name in. This misogynistic bull crap from Obama, his campaign and supporters has lost him my vote. Take my vote for granted my ass.

  109. If you want to take the position that Obama’s nomination will leave you undecided: fine, this is America. But know that you are no longer a democrat. You are only a Hillary supporter. And this makes your whole position so strange to me.

    Respectfully? You don’t have the right to decide who is or isn’t a Democrat. Nobody does. Which is partly what makes the party so wonderful, but partly what makes it so prone to dysfunction when the wrong group of boyz gets in there and takes over.

    Others have already put this more eloquently than I, but I’m also writing in Hillary if Obama gets the nomination. Or as someone close to me put it: I didn’t leave the Party, the Party left me. I’m still every bit a Democrat. Dean, Obama and their apologists are not. (Just because someone’s got a snappy title like “Party chairman” certainly doesn’t assure that he – and it’s almost always a he, isn’t it? – is going to hew to the policies that have traditionally comprised that bloc of voters.)

    It’s really just about that simple.

    p.s. “Obamanation” – LOVE! IT!

  110. […] Riverdaughter: If he can ignore you now and treat you like $#$%, what makes you think he’s going to change after you’re married to him? […]

  111. You people are all so crazy it’s unbelievable. I hope you enjoy 4 to 8 more years of Republican Misrule.

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