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Back off, Boyz!

If I read another Conflucian giving up in despair over the seemingly insurmountable delegate count, I am going to reach right through the ether and dope slap you. Don’t make me come through your monitor. 😐

The Boyz at the Big Blog Stores are doing a haka and trying make themselves and Obama seem so fierce that you will just surrender. But there is absolutely no reason for Hillary to concede and she won’t. She is going to win this thing and here’s why:

  • Neither candidate has enough delegates to win without the SDs. Sorry Math Whiz’s. Creative math doesn’t help you here. The SD’s were created for just this eventuality.
  • If The Gang of Four (Dean, Brazile, Pelosi and Kennedy) think that they can write off FL and MI and by extension, NY, NJ, CA, MA, AZ, OH and coming down the pike, PA, WV and KY, they are out of their fricking minds. No SD in their right mind is going to give the racial south and the mountain west precedence over millions and millions of base Democratic voters in high electoral college states and swing states. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. At some point, Obama is going to have to take a hit on the FL and MI delegations if the party has any prayer of winning them back by November. You know it, I know it, Donna f%^&ing Brazile knows it. He can only hold out for so long before the Bennies and Shoobies descend on Denver in August to make his life a living hell.
  • Hillary is going to cream Obama in PA. It ain’t even going to be close. Wright is going to be a factor, fair or not. The ending is more important than the beginning, in this case. She will end very well.
  • Hillary is picking up some nice endorsements. John Murtha endorsed her today. That’s going to be good for her anti-war creds. Congressman Maroney in WV also endorsed her. There have been hints and allegations that Edwards would endorse Hillary before NC. We’ll see. The timing would be right and would score Edwards big points.
  • She’s the best qualified candidate on either side to handle what’s coming down the pike on the economy, the war, energy policy and a whole host of other issues. Instead of caving to the big boyz, why aren’t we asking them why they are so insistent about shoving a complete neophyte down our throats and into the Oval Office when they *know* he’s going to be in over his head? Who is behind Obama’s meteoric rise and why are they willing to let the game be rigged on his behalf? Kos and the others haven’t explained themselves to my satisfaction. How about you?

As long as she is not getting out of the race, and there is no reason why she should, there is no reason why we should throw in the towel either. I see this as very winnable for her. I’m not giving up yet and neither should any of you. So, stop the hand wringing. The big boyz are full of sound and fury but will ultimately signify nothing.

63 Responses

  1. I wonder if there is any chance Hillary would put Edwards on the ticket as VP if he endorses her. I suppose she needs someone who has foreign policy creds, but Edwards might be able to carry a couple of southern states. I’m guess Hillary would use him better than Kerry did. I think Kerry was jealous of Edwards and banished him to places where he got no publicity.

    I guess you can tell I still believe that Hillary is going to win this thing. I really do. I have very strong feeling about it.

  2. You are probably correct. It just seems that the beatification of Barack continues in full mode. Right now I am feeling kind of blaaaahhhhhhhggg…..

  3. BB: the Edwards VP has crossed my mind lately. Who knows.

  4. Thank you riverdaughter!! I slapped myself silly on the way home from work and I’ve come to my senses again.

    ALSO I found a great comment at MyDD — a response to someone saying it’s all over:

    Re: PA polls (none / 0)

    You are one seriously delusional puppy at this point if you believe Obama has the nomination sown up. If anything, the SD are figuring out how to approach Hillary without it looking like a stampede for the exits.

    Obama is such damaged goods at this point as a result of this Wright mess, that the best he can hope for, IF that, is VP. Those Red States he won his caucus victories can now not be counted on in the win column for him. And that’s if they ever could in the first place.

    Wright is in Farrahkan territory, and since Obama did not totally distance himself from the guy, his judgement has been revealed to be much worse than advertised. The youth and black vote will be overcome in the GE by the low economic white, hispanic and senior voters as a result of this debacle. The only question is whether Hillary or McCain will be the winner.

    by SoCalHillMan on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 07:24:35 PM EST

    It’s the stampede thing I wrote about this morning.

  5. That’s the spirit! We will fight for a legitimate nominee of the entire Democratic Party until the last dog dies.

  6. You know, I get so depressed reading the “Big Blog Stores” (love that name) that I almost want to give up and I begin to contemplate life in a McCain presidency. Thank God I’ve found The Confluence and TM. I still believe. Keep up the good work riverdaughter.

  7. Great catch, Kbird. I think your stampede is correct and a nice image. 🙂

  8. Hey! We made the NYTimes! See this: The Opinionator

  9. Augie–

    Just don’t go to the big blogs. I can’t believe how much happier and better informed I am since I too the pledge. I hung on way too long and I’m glad I found better places to go.

  10. Wow! Congrats, riverdaughter! You are a rising star! That’s so exciting!

  11. Thanks riverd, I’m thinking about your points in this post and the ones in the email from the campaign earlier this week. And I’m wondering if we – inclusive we – could develop on some of these themes in an almost undisciplined way?

    Not that we shouldn’t write however the spirit moves us. But if we had a checklist of points or themes to work into as many posts as possible. Even as a throw away comment buried in there.

    Because I think that’s what the A-BOYZ do. There’re certain things they HIT all the time.

    And we should have a list of Clinton Points & Obama Points. That we use here and work into all our comments at other blogs.

    I’d almost like to have a conference call or find a chat space or something.

  12. My expectations for Hillary to win the nomination have been low for a while. But there is something about how she has appeared even more positively energized lately.

    I think she knows something is about to change the dynamics of the nomination campaign. Maybe I’m wrong, but I do get that sense.

    Who listens to the Boyz at the Big Blog Stores anyway?

  13. Reading that article, I see Obama got high praise from the conservatives. I can’t believe Charles Murray is praising him. Murray is the Bell Curve guy who argues that blacks are inherently less intelligent than whites.

  14. “Who is behind Obama’s meteoric rise and why are they willing to let the game be rigged on his behalf?”

    Well this is certainly what I want to know.

    riverdaughter, you are correct. We cannot give up. They want us to and if Hillary had already done so, the Rev. Wrong thing would have hit the airwaves that evening,

  15. Kbird: I hear ya’. I can’t do it tonight. I’m burned out but I think that’s a great suggestion. You are absolutely right that they are coordinating. Can I get back to you tomorrow on that?

  16. riverdaughter, great quote in the Opinionater, they caught your wonderful snark.

  17. Yes. I’ve got a meeting at some point, I’ll let you know when.

    AND Wow — The New York Times! Yikes!!!

  18. I too have that kind of “the tide is turning” feeling that I don’t think was present when BO was winning state after state. But then, I’ve also stopped reading the BBBs, so who knows? But I think our side seems much more energized too.

  19. Riverdaughter, hope you’re keeping an eye out on this post… I just put up a post about Kos, and I’d really appreciate your feedback. Even by e-mail…

    weboy 🙂

  20. It’s amazing how the “progressive” blogosphere has dropped any pretense of caring about a real progressive agenda. They have simply become additional conduits of the Obama campaign. Although we thought they would fight the misinformation put out by the Rightwing Noise Machine, we have actually seen them embrace it to smear Hillary Clinton.

    Haven’t we seen the likes of Kevin Drum, Josh Marshall, Kos, Arianna embrace and even promote the smears against Hillary made out of whole cloth, by Drudge. The droolingly retarded Jon Chait at TNR wrote horrible pieces about how much the RW Hate was right about Hillary and Bill Clinton.

    The talking points against “vile” Hillary come straight from the Obama capmaign. You just have to open a newspaper and you can read stuff like this from The Politico:

    Is it possible to win the Democratic nomination in such a way as to make winning not worth it?

    The Barack Obama campaign thinks so. It thinks Hillary Clinton’s campaign is willing to take any road to the White House, including the low road.

    “They would do anything to win, and that means anything,” David Axelrod, Obama’s chief strategist, told me Monday. “There is a frenetic energy around them to commandeer this election in any way they can.” (…)

    Another Obama senior aide told me he believed Clinton was willing to “destroy the party” just as long as she ends up with the nomination.

    Confronted with so much hopeful, clean, above the fray and new kind of politics, the campaign of Caligula Clinton responded with atrocities:

    I asked Clinton Communications Director Howard Wolfson for a response.

    “I think these apocalyptic quotes are unhelpful,” Wolfson said. “I don’t envision that either side would destroy the party. There is a democratic process here to play out. This process is not over. There are still 10 [contests] left to vote. What is the fear here? Let’s let democracy run its course.”

  21. I only know what I know, and I don’t know much about Clinton’s possibilities of pulling this thing out. But I do know that she will kick Obama’s hopeful butt up and down our friendly Commonwealth.

  22. I figure, why worry about what Kos predicts to happen. As a long time reader, I mean, going back to 2003 – his track record on this is so abysmal, he’s joked about it himself.

    It does occur to me, though, if you want a real time track on the buildup of that bogus race baiting narrative, there are a few commenters on Kos whose histories will show it, that they started it, fueled it, and spread it around the blogosphere.

  23. I heard a pollster on the radio this afternoon. I think he was from SUSA. He said that Hillary has the momentum in PA now and white men are switching to her, plus lots of women. I think she will win very big in PA and the momentum will carry her forward from there. Obama is severely damaged.

  24. rd: congrats.
    MABlue: Caligula Clinton 😉

  25. Sorry, that was the Quinnipiac poll I heard about. BTD at Talkleft just reported on the PPP poll, which has Hillary up 26 points on Barack, and leading with women 66-20! She is also getting 29% of the black vote.


  26. I agree that Hillary has the momentum in PA. so be prepared for the blogosphere to decide that PA is a racist state.

    I think what upsets me the most is the Clintons being portrayed as racists. that totally ignores their history and the causes that have been important to them. it’s truly ugly and immoral.

  27. “Who is behind Obama’s meteoric rise and why are they willing to let the game be rigged on his behalf?”

    No one has answered that question to my satisfaction!

    It is not over until it is over, and I am not giving up.

  28. Well Mr. math wiz, perhaps you should take a look at how “W” won. He didn’t use all big states but rather a combination of middle sized and the south. But, it isn’t your inaccurate math that bother’s me. It’s the arrogance of your Clinton thinkin. When are you guys going to wake up and realize that coming together in the end is the only way to win. Arrogant anti anybody is not flattering and only shows your immaturity.

  29. For whites, here is the opportunity to document their deliverance from the shames of their forbearers. And for blacks, here is the chance to document the end of inferiority. So the Clintons have found themselves running more against America’s very highest possibilities than against a man. And the press, normally happy to dispel every political pretension, has all but quivered before Mr. Obama. They, too, have feared being on the wrong side of destiny.

  30. Mr. STENGEL: John Edwards. Senator John Edwards –remember him?–who’s been conspicuously silent since he dropped out of the race, will endorse a Democratic candidate probably before North Carolina, certainly before North
    Carolina, possible before Pennsylvania. And our own Mark Halpern on the page says it’s going to be Senator Hillary Clinton.

  31. Ken, it’s sort of arrogant to assume the only reason someone doesn’t agree with you is that s/he needs to “wake up.”

  32. Ken Berg– You’re thinking Obama will win the states that Bush won? Interesting. Well, The One does resemble Bush in several ways that I can think of. As for “coming together in the end,” I think that ship has sailed. It’s not going to happen with Obama as the nominee.

  33. Good news and alert the Boyz:

    Hillary is upping the ante in MI.

    Now that’s our girl!

  34. Hey, don’t diss the haka by treating it as if it were a useless chest pounding ritual.

    It is not.

    WE do the haka, right here. All the time. From the get-go.

    It’s like, “don’t f*ck with us, fools,” mixed with deep inner determination, and ineffable group magic.

  35. Everyone should definitely check out the WSJ link from
    prohillary. It’s an eye-opener.

  36. Thanks for speech, riverdaughter. I confess I’ve been pretty discouraged since the latest castastrofuck out of MI and FLA.

  37. How to turn one’s blackness to advantage?

    The answer is that one “bargains.” Bargaining is a mask that blacks can wear in the American mainstream, one that enables them to put whites at their ease. This mask diffuses the anxiety that goes along with being white in a multiracial society. Bargainers make the subliminal promise to whites not to shame them with America’s history of racism, on the condition that they will not hold the bargainer’s race against him. And whites love this bargain — and feel affection for the bargainer — because it gives them racial innocence in a society where whites live under constant threat of being stigmatized as racist. So the bargainer presents himself as an opportunity for whites to experience racial innocence.

    This is how Mr. Obama has turned his blackness into his great political advantage, and also into a kind of personal charisma. Bargainers are conduits of white innocence, and they are as popular as the need for white innocence is strong. Mr. Obama’s extraordinary dash to the forefront of American politics is less a measure of the man than of the hunger in white America for racial innocence.

    [Shelby Steele op-ed blockquoted for clarity — RonK]

    I heard Steele discuss this several weeks—or months–ago. It was fascinating, but I’d forgotten it.

    He’s actually more clear in this piece in the WSJ than he was on the program (Moyers’ Journal??). It’s what Geraldine Ferraro was getting at, but didn’t have the framing Steele provides. No one has called Steele racist bcz of this, AFAIK.

    Prohillary’s link is at 10:07–do read it.

  38. Essentially what happened with the broadcasting of the Wright videos is that the mask came off briefly. Obama’s immediate need is to get the mask back in place. Then, he must rebuild the assurance.

  39. “Who is behind Obama’s meteoric rise”

    Daschle, as far as it goes for the big kickoff.

  40. “cigar chomping cracker”

    Woo hoo!

    I’m a stereotype!

    Thanks Pastor Wright!

  41. “Who is behind Obama’s meteoric rise”

    Let’s see. Rezko contacted Obama when he was in law school. We do know that. Rezko has some place in the story. But who is behind Rezko? That is where things get murky. Very interesting story here.

  42. Wow, I didn’t know you were here.

    My partner and I have felt like lonely voices in the wilderness. The obvious anti-HRC bias, the unexamined Senator Obama—I thought I’d kept such an open mind my brain fell out and I just wasn’t getting it.

    I heard Senator Obama’s entire speech today. The stage direction was kind of dull and his performance was toned down. Too bad—those are essential parts of his mystique.

    Some of his message was pretty good, but a lot of high-flown passive voice rhetoric without any bite. Ultimately, not great by any stretch, but it took guts to try to talk philosophy during a campaign and I’ll give him credit where credit is due.

    I also read HRC’s commencement address from 1969 today, written when she was 22. That’s a good piece of work. I sent her campaign a note that she should reprise that speech or at least parts of it. It contains her entire life practice, echoed in her Methodist belief: faith without works is dead.

    And she’s got a lifetime of service to prove it.

    BTW, I’m an atheist. I didn’t find Dr. Wright’s speeches shocking, except I did take personally the accustaion that my government developed and spread HIV/AIDS among the African-American population. This from a man who really has been welcoming and warm-hearted to those in need.

    Rumor is it there’s a lot more to come from his videotapes.

    Last bit: despite the biased MSM and blogs (maybe even a little because of it), people admire HRC. She stands her ground. She fights. And she wins. Good for her. Good for us.

    Thank you for making this place.

  43. I agree that Hillary has the momentum in PA. so be prepared for the blogosphere to decide that PA is a racist state.

    I read plenty of blog comments to that effect about the rural parts of Ohio, I’m sure there’s plenty more to come. The “low information voters” they say, and a key part of the narrative that the Clinton campaign would be race baiting – assuming these voters are racist is necessary to give them a reason why they’d use what would actually be an insanely stupid strategy. It goes unspoken, but for real, for some Obama supporters the rationale is, working class white voters are racist, so Hillary would race bait in order to appeal to them.

    as for why Obama isn’t doing well, I’d attribute it, just on a knee jerk level going on personal experience being from that rural/Appalachian part of the country, more to.. Obama not having spoken much to economic issues, general cynicism about lofty rhetoric from politicians, general feeling the national Democratic party has gone over the cliff in being dangerous leftists (applies far more to the Kerry/Kennedys than to the Clintons, I think the Clintons are more cool with them). Also there are a lot of Catholic voters and again personally being from a Catholic background often his speeches come off as being preachy, preachy in an entirely different way than I can relate to, very protestant/evangelical. I don’t know if that’s accurate or not, for being a factor in his difficulty appealing to Catholic voters, but there it is – I felt distanced by his rhetoric from the get go.

  44. Ugh. The “racial South” versus “Democratic base” voters? You sound like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O’Reily rolled into one. I should apologize to the right wingers on Fox, actually–they would get fired for saying these things. You sound like segregationists Democrats decrying the “racialization” of their party after civil rights. Imagine the outcry if the Bush people had derided the “racialized Orlando area” when fighting over the Florida vote in 2000. Your tactics would make Karl Rove blush–or laugh out loud, when he realizes that Hillary actually expects to get black votes in November. Nothing McCain throws at Obama could be worse than what he’s had against Hillary. No Swift Boating could be worse than Ferraro.

    The Superdelegates can vote on whatever criteria they think is best. But the idea that 75+% of them will fall in line behind a candidate who has fewer popular votes, fewer delegates, and fewer states is delusional. The superdelegates may have been intended to give establishment, pro-war candidates like Hillary an edge, but unfortunately for her they don’t have to all fall in line and do as they’re told. She may be foregetting, but some of them are black and would go to hell before they support her after what she and her people have pulled. Maybe they should be changed so that they’re all “base Democratic voters”!

  45. And to think I was grateful that over on this little blog we could have a conversation free of rude, accusatory comments. dende, what the shit? Can you not disagree without the ‘you this, you that, you’re delusional.’

  46. Good luck dende. Hillary brings in working class voters, women, Latinos, Asian Americans, Jewish Americans, Catholics and the elderly.

    Obama’s got African-Americans, young people (who mostly won’t bother showing up), the percentage of rich people who aren’t Republicans, and…that’s pretty much it. If the superdelgates can count, they can figure out who will win.

    And seriously, Obama is the anti-Establishment peace candidate? Because sure, he’s got virtually the entire Senate, and DNC doing everything they can to sink his opponent, but they’re like the ‘renegade’ establishment. They ride motorcycles and never eat the hot dish in the Senate Dining Room. And he’s as anti-war as any candidate who says his position is no different from Bush’s and who admits he doesn’t know how he would have voted had he actually had to make a decision (voted Present like the leader he is?). I’ll grant you that he’s about as much teh anti-establishment peace candidate as he’sbeen subjected to anything remotely negative, I mean I’d give examples of all the viciousness ‘cept i don’t have time to visit a parallel universe. He’s been so gosh darn brave to stand up under this relentless assault that he’ll be fine provided McCain doesn’t do anything as utterly vicious as not just dropping out and endorsing him and annointing him with Crisco.

  47. The problem with the delegate and popular vote totals is that it is an incomplete picture. Not counting FL and MI for Hillary is like not counting IL and GA for Obama. The nominee has to be seen as winning fair and square or else people will feel robbed.

  48. Kos doing a haka? More like a haha! Now off to read the article….

  49. When I commented weeks ago on Americablog that Obama might have a tough time in New Jersey, they laughed and ridiculed me in saying NJ will always be blue. After the REv . Wrongs anti Italian rants, I can honestly say that if Obama is the nominee, he will definitely lose New Jersey. Italians and want to be Italians make up a large part of NJ. And I have boycotted the Boyz in the Blogs. Thanks RiverD for a very insightful, respectful environment you have here.

  50. Hi tiffany, she’s great, isn’t she? Brilliant. (and snarky)

  51. Why do the BBB’s support Obama? They believe he is the most electable, and by supporting him can be regarded as kingmakers, if he shouid win. They want the role that the trad. media has had for the past generation. Nothing would please these guys more than having a regular seat at Russert’s Sunday table.

  52. why isnt the senates ethics commitee looking at obamas racist “friends” ? he is friends with the good rev wright who is very good friends with farrahkan nation of islam fame…cant they connect the dots ? and if they cant or wont, what can we the people do ? this is very sinister and i am disgusted by it…

  53. “No Swift Boating could be worse than Ferraro.”

    Oh, Really!

    Here are Ferraro’s words:

    “[I]f Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept.”

    Hmm…”no swiftboating could be worse” than that?!

    Oh, Dende blogger, you’re really going to have to get over yourself, dearie. If you think that comment is “swiftboating,” I wonder about your judgment.


  54. Hi ya folks!

    Hardcore Hillary supporter here, I’m one of the DK strikers, found this place and been sippin’ coffee and lurkin’ for a while. Nice to see a place not dominated by Obamagasms and circle jerking with blinders on!

    I think it might, and hope this Wright fiasco will cause a complete collapse of the Obama campaign, as if he still goes ahead and does get the nomination…that’s right folks… get ready for President McCain…. Ole Johnny is grinnin’ from ear to ear these days!

    The right wing 527’s are hiding in the shadows, giggling, just waiting to pounce, just hoping Hillary can’t pull this off. If Obama is our guy, we are going to see Wright videos 24/7 against him on the boob tube. He won’t stand a chance against McCain.

    I can just see it now, I’m watching the American Idol finale, one ad shows Wright screamin’, the other shows McCain as a POW. DUH!!! WAKE UP SUPER DELEGATES! WAKE UP DLC! WAKE UP DEMOCRATS!

    I have never liked Obama, I was an Edwards supporter, then switched to Hillary, and now, Edwards is still my second choice, but Obama was never even in the pile of cards for me.

    If we hand this thing to Obama, we are handing the presidency to McCain. Pure and simple.

    GO HILLARY!!!!

  55. Yes, the tide has turned, the horse has left the barn and Obama is toast. Howard Wolfson brought up Alice Palmer (though not by name) today on the Clinton Conference call and more pushing on his nonexistent/disappeared records while he was State Senator (Rezko, etal). This was in contrast to the NA’s releasal of her records as First Lady.

  56. Congratulations to riverdaughter! She never gives up. You people inspire me every day. Thanks for being here.

    Almost forgot – GO HILLARY!!!

  57. […] Back off, Boyz! If I read another Conflucian giving up in despair over the seemingly insurmountable delegate count, I am going to reach […] […]

  58. Great points! Obama is unelectable and the Supers know it! It’s all about the electoral college, as is pointed out in another most excellent post.
    Nobody will get enough pledged delegates and that has been clear for quite some time.
    I have been calling and e-mailing Pelosi, Dean and the PA supers to let them know there are Americans who know and understand what the super d’s are ssupposed to do- nominate a candidate that can win the GE.
    I also asked Pelosi if her comment about the super’s going with the will of the people means Kennedy and friends have to switch to Hillary- after all, she won in MA.

  59. Riverdaughter – just a correction from someone in WV. We have no Congressman with the name you gave. We have a Congressman Mollohan.

    “The state’s other Democratic congressman, Rep. Alan Mollohan, doesn’t plan to endorse either candidate, said spokesman Gerry Griffith.” Charleston Gazette 3-18-08

    I don’t think I’m wrong here. Love your blog.

  60. […] friends like thisAfternoon SpecialsShatteredCrowdsourcing the DocsHey! We broke 100,000 hits today!Back off, Boyz!Friday: Just the two of […]

  61. River– you’re absolutely right. The BO Campaign and all of his surrogates and minions are desperate. They pulled this identidical crapola with us in Texas. Right before the Texas Primary, we were told locally and throughout the country that Hillary needed to QUIT. Oh yeah, but after we won, it was everywhere that they knew unequivocally the bad news was eminent since Friday Feb. 29 that they were going to LOSE BIG TIME. This is the Obama strategy. And, might I add… this male-dominated WAR STRATEGY. Hillary can handle it. Just want all her supporters in PA, WV, IN, KY, NC– DO NOT GIVE UP!!! That is what they want, they want you to get so bummed out, that you will that it is senseless to go out and vote. It did NOT work in Texas or Ohio and you can take Hillary to victory. IT CAN AND IT WILL HAPPEN!!!

    P.S. We are still counting Delegates for our Part 2 Caucus vote on March 29. Do NOT believe CNN, MSNBC, etc. that BO won in Texas. The votes have NOT been counted. JUST ANOTHER OBAMA LIE designed to dupe, confuse and confound you.

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