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Welcome Union Members!

I would like to extend a hand to all of the Kossacks who officially threw in the towel tonight. I know it can’t have been easy, although a few of you will assure me that it was. Please feel free to use The Confluence as your online picket line and refugee camp.

As you may have noticed, although we have only been in operation for a couple of months, our infamy has grown quite a bit. We have gotten mentioned at many fine blogs and have a reputation for offering a safe place to express your opinion with other non-Obamaphiles.

Once you settle down from that feeling of being suddenly untethered and giddy, I hope you will take a look around and consider The Confluence as your second home while the other one is undergoing demolition and rebuilding. It looks like it will be a complete tear down. I could use some writers to help me keep content fresh so if anyone would like to contribute, please mention it in the comments and I’ll send an invitation. In fact, I’m *begging* for some help. My house is a mess, my eyes are burning, I haven’t showered in days and I have repetitive motion syndrome from being strapped to this damn macbook all day long. (Ok, I *have* actually showered but the other stuff is true) Please let me be a normal person and fulfill my needs for proper nutrition, hydration and sex and all the things an average human being enjoys on a daily basis!

*primal screeeeeeam!*

Ok, I’m better now. I hope some of you will consider my offer to contribute. But in the meantime, welcome to The Conlfuence, American Federation of Concerned Bloggers!

Here is Alegre’s diary in it’s entirety:

Writer’s Strike at DailyKos

This is an open letter to the progressive blogosphere. This is cross-posted and on the Recommended List at DailyKos.com
I’ve been posting at DailyKos for nearly 4 years now and started writing diaries in support of Hillary Clinton back in June of last year. Over the past few months I’ve noticed that things have become progressively more abusive toward my candidate and her supporters.I’ve put up with the abuse and anger because I’ve always believed in what our on-line community has tried to accomplish in this world.
No more. DailyKos is not the site it once was thanks to the abusive nature of certain members of our community.I’ve decided to go on “strike” and will refrain from posting here as long as the administrators allow the more disruptive members of our community to trash Hillary Clinton and distort her record without any fear of consequence or retribution.
I will not be posting at DailyKos effective immediately. I will not help drive up traffic or page-hits as long as my candidate – a good and fine DEMOCRAT – is attacked in such a horrid and sexist manner not only by other diarists, but by several of those posting to the front page.
Instead, I will put my energy into posting at sites where my efforts aren’t routinely trashed, spammed and ridiculed by a handful of angry, petty and spiteful folks who clearly have too much time on their hands.This is a strike – a walkout over unfair writing conditions at DailyKos. It does not mean that if conditions get better I won’t “work” at DailyKos again. As a regular contributor to the discourse in our community, I would certainly hope to take part in the conversation at DailyKos again some day if we ever get to the point where we’re engaging each other in discussion rather than facing off in shouting matches. But not now. Writers need a safe place to reach out and exchange ideas, to communicate and challenge one another. DailyKos should be that place, but its tone, its essence has evolved into something ugly and destructive. Good writers can’t survive in that kind of atmosphere. Democrats shouldn’t have to put up with that from fellow Democrats.Sadly, the majority of the administrators have allowed this hostile environment to develop in our online community for anyone who isn’t planted firmly in the Obama camp. They’ve routinely ignored personal attacks and allowed disruptive, spam-like posts to go unchecked whenever anyone expresses support for Hillary or challenges something their candidate has said or done. There are however several front-pagers who have managed to avoid taking part in the attacks on Hillary and for that I’m grateful. But the site has grown to the point where they simply can’t – or won’t monitor it.As a result, our community has become little more than an echo chamber with an attitude that harkens back to the early days of Dubbya’s administration – yer either with us or yer a’gin us, heh! The attackers and disrupters are no better than Chris Matthews with their sexism, hate, lies, and obsession with bashing – all – things – Hillary.No, I won’t post specific attacks here. That would just be repeating the lies and the hate, but I will note that one of my fellow Kossaks (someone with whom I thought I could agree to disagree) went so far as to suggest that others try to dig up real life information on the pro-Hillary members of our community. To what end? Was his aim to find enough information on us to try to get us fired from our jobs and leave our families homeless – or worse? Suggesting that they dig up real life information on us is the lowest form of intimidation and goes way beyond the limits of all things civil and reasonable. It’s nothing more than the worst form of thuggish, hateful and intimidating behavior toward other members of our community.Now in all fairness, that diarist saw just how far over the line he went with that post and eventually took it down. But the fact that he posted it in the first place shows us the kind of mob mentality that has been allowed to develop, grow and fester at DailyKos.Either way, is that the kind of behavior that Obama would be proud of? Do the venomous attacks and lies about fellow Democrats represent him and all he stands for in an accurate and fair manner? Does this spiteful and vindictive behavior reunite our party? Would outing this working mother represent hope? Would it bring about change? Would Obama encourage that sort of anger, bullying, intimidation and hate from his followers toward another Democrat and her supporters? Do those followers of his help his cause at the end of the day?

I have been working for decades to get countless good Democrats elected – going back to the early `70s when I stuffed envelopes and walked precincts for George McGovern (ok so I was 10 back then but I still helped and gladly – Nixon sent several of my uncles to Vietnam). The causes I’ve worked for are those which Obama’s followers at DailyKos claim to care about. As a Yellow-Dog-Democrat and a progressive, I am deeply saddened to see what’s happened to our community.

I’ve also been a posting to discussion boards and blogs since the mid-90s, and have worked for and written about a wide range of causes from: women’s rights; the environment; an end to the genocide in Darfur; benefits and decent equipment for our troops; an end to domestic violence; the protection of children; education; strengthening our economy; healthcare; impeachment; alleviating poverty; peace… the list goes on and on and on. Many of those diaries have generated hundreds and hundreds of comments – several having topped the thousand comments mark (take THAT Keith Olbermann!).

But let me make one thing crystal clear here – this is not a GBCW post. If and when the community I once respected and of which I considered myself a valued member returns to its roots and stops attacking and maligning Hillary and other good Democrats in such a hateful and destructive manner, I’ll be happy to return as an active member of what used to be the online community of progressive activists. It is my hope that the day will come sooner rather than later.

Until that day, I’ll participate in other sites such as MyDD & Talk Left etc., and focus my energy on building them up to help fill the void that DailyKos has left in the progressive blogosphere.

Until then, I’ll take up the WGA strike motto: “We write. You wrong.” when it comes to DailyKos, and say the following to anyone reading this diary right now…

If you’re sick of the way Hillary – a good and decent Democrat – has been vilified and attacked… if you’ve EVER recommended one of my dairies on this or any other site then please join me in this effort. Let’s take a stand here and now and tell the world we will no longer remain silent in the face of the sexism, anger, irrational hate, lies and attacks against Hillary. Nor will we add to the bottom line of a site that continues to lead the charge in fueling it.

The double standards, the distortions, the hateful, irrational, personal attacks, and the lies about Hillary and her long and distinguished record of public service stop here – and they stop now.

So I hereby announce the formation of a new labor union – The American Federation of Concerned Bloggers (AFCB).

This is a writer’s strike – who’ll join me on the picket line?

By the way…

Are you current on your union dues?

Pony-up folks.


Here’s that video I tried to post in the comments. I wasn’t going to post it in the body of the diary but what the heck – we’re all friends here right? 🙂 I really am going to miss posting at DailyKos. The fact that I made it up onto the Rec List over there tonight gives me hope that we can come together again as a community when the time comes to take out John McCain in the general election.

Champagne, anyone?

74 Responses

  1. That thread is going crazy. Alegre just posted the number of people who recommended that diary, the number of strikers is going to be less, but I think would be at least 20-30 people.

    There are the usual trolls showing up (you know, those who trash Hillary or attack the poster personally, and add no substance to their comment whatever), the usual names and the usual crowd. We had a few reasonable voices (Obama or Edwards supporters) agreeing with Alegre.

    You can even cross post the whole diary here. I don’t think Alegre would mind.

  2. Ghost2: I would *love* to post the whole diary here but for some stupid reason, my ISP will not connect me to DailyKos anymore. I can only read the diary on my iPhone.
    It *was* good though. 😉

  3. Alegre’s diary is also cross posted at mydd:


  4. And you’d like this one too:

    http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/14/124144/198 (Need help breaking free? Try NdKos Today), complete with graphics.

  5. Hi Goldberry! Nice place you have here.

  6. Goldberry, you’re an inspiration. Thanks for cross posting this, I feel soooo free. I’d really tried to engage in some discourse about issues there, but it’s hopeless and quite frankly I don’t think anyone reads candidate diaries there and the other one’s are hardly written since they nearly never make the recommended list.

  7. We refugees from DKos appreciate your kindness. It’s cold out here but it was worse than cold in there.

  8. I love it here and thanks Goldberry. I do have an issue that I think many from Kos have. WordPress. I use it on my blog too and it just isn’t wildly interactive like Scoop. Now maybe thats ok. Maybe it’s the quick hits that make Kos so bad.


  9. NewHampster: I am open to suggestions and technical assistance. I’ve tried scoop at work but I find mysql finicky. Maybe if we can find a host…

  10. Several months ago, I gave up on Kos, Huff, TPM, and a host of other so-called liberal web sites precisely because of the Right-Wing Republican-like attacks on Hillary.

    I have no objection to liberals making a case for Obama over Hillary. I do object to the wholesale demonization of Hillary with no holds barred.

    Then I split my political bookmarks into 3 groups: HDS liberals, Non-HDS liberals and general. At first, the non-HDS group was kind of small, basically just Taylor. But over time it has grown. I discovered Confluence only a short time ago, and am happy to have another site I can add to the non-HDS list.

    Contrary to Alegre’s hopes for Kos, however, I don’t think I am ever likely again to frequent those sites. If, after all, they can so distort reality to favor their candidate now, then I can no longer trust them to be a fair alternative to the MSM in the future.

  11. Sherry: It’s not cold at all. You’ll be surprised at how friendly exo-Kos can be.

  12. it’s like hitting yourself on the head with a hammer- if feels so good when you stop. the cultural revolution is in full swing over there- they’re erasing the past, and having extremism competitions to see who is most pure. a poll last week actually showed 51% of respondents refusing to vote for the democratic nominee unless it was obama- this, on an allegedly democratic blog.

  13. Another Kossack-in-exile here – I am not a Clinton supporter, although I’ll certainly vote for her if she’s the nominee, but I am worn out with the vitriol and abuse at DKos. It’s really reached a crescendo tonight, with the whole Wright video fiasco for Obama, although it’s somewhat comical to see how eager people are to forgive Obama for that, while excoriating Clinton for Ferraro’s comments. Feh. Thanks for the welcome – I hope to visit often.

  14. LCaution: I felt the same way Alegre did when I left. I thought it would be temporary and that I would be doing battle with the Republicans from there before long. But until you spend some time away from it you cannot gain perspective on what Kos has become. I;m not kidding about a complete teardown. It has gone completely LGF. And now that I have some small measure of success blogging on my own, I would never go back to fighting my way onto the rec list. The frontpagers are not who they claimed to be and neither was their purpose. I suspect that Kos has been planning to support the Dean candidate for quite some time now. At DailyKos, there was never going to be a choice because Clinton wasn’t on the approved list.
    No, DKos is a failure now. It cannot survive without dissent.

  15. geordie: glad to meet you! Make yourself comfortable.

  16. campskunk: I guess we can consider Crashing the Gate as The Sayings of Chairman Kos now. This must mean I am in a reeducation camp until I become rehabilitated.

  17. Hi, Goldberry! I’m SO excited to have discovered your blog here! I missed you at Kos. But now that I’ve joined the strike (and perhaps left that Big Orange S**tpile for good), I have more time (and more room on my Favorites bar) for better blogs. I hope to keep coming back for more of your brilliant blogging! 🙂

  18. Btw, I used to be “atdnext” at kos. I’m just glad to be free of that site! Solidarity, forever! Let REAL progressive values prevail! 🙂

  19. I’ve wanted to play with scoop. I’ll take a look.

    PS I only manage 2 terabytes of server. Have you thought about soapblox? Not scoop by any means but I know it’s less intense sever wise.

  20. Would it be helpful to have an organizational meeting at some point in the near future? NewHampster suggested a scoop like site. The EENR folks seem to have had some success with SoapBlox. I can turn on the registered users function. I am open to format, structure, themes.
    Is anyone interested in broadening the site?

  21. NewHampster: I am open to soapblox. The EENR people have done a nice job with it.

  22. I’ll look into it and get back at ya

  23. I think I’m really done with the big Orange too. I went over there the rec Alegre’s diary and I posted a response to Scout Finch’s comment claiming the admins have tried to get people to tone it down “on both sides.” That “on both sides” stuff has always been a joke. I wonder what will happen when Hillary gets the nomination and all the Republicans operatives leave dkos? Will there be anyone left?


    I have been looking for this video for some time. Here is Obama, proponent of a new type of politics telling the American people everything there ever was between him and Rezko:

    Just watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHlQDmac7aE

  25. BB: LOL! She actually said *on both sides*? What are the Clintonistas numbers there? Aren’t they like Zoroastrians living in India? They number, what? 250K worldwide? And how many Hindus are in India? I mean, do you even have to tell them to keep it down? It’s like telling Marcel Marceau to turn down the volume at a Sex Pistols gig.
    Lordy help us. Scout used to be one of the sane ones.

  26. riverdaughter, I’d love it if you broadened the site — Your blog has become my first stop in the morning & the last one at night. And I’m embarrassed to say how often in between….

    And I’d love to participate, if there’s a place for me.

  27. Katiebird: I think we could arrange something. 😉 I’m looking forward to the evolution of this blog and greater participation.

  28. I could go for a drink. If I wasn’t working. Sigh.

    I’m hungry, tired and cranky. Good to see some friendly folks here this evening!

  29. I have been a member of Kos for an extremely long time. I think I’m one of the first 5000, so I’m not sure how long that makes it.

    I haven’t been back in a while, as the vitriol there towards HRC has just been inexcusable. And unlike some, I do blame Obama, because many of the memes have been fostered directly by his campaign. Check correntewire.com for more details. They’ve been pushing stuff like the racebaiting claims to the media for some time now. No doubt they have direct lines into the top blogs as well.

    One phenomenon I had started noticing about 3-4 years ago, maybe (and I’m a very irregular and inconsistent, but nonetheless, heavy blog reader due to the nature of my job) was that there were more and more self-described recovering Republicans on Kos. Obviously, this was welcomed at the time, but it clearly had an effect on the blog. My primary interests are in economics and domestic policies, and I began to notice that more and more libertarians (and not just kinda libertarians but full-blown Ayn Rand types) were shouting down good liberals. And then they started troll rating good liberals espousing good liberal solutions.

    And I think that that trend was evident, not just among economic liberals vs. libertarians, but across all areas of ideology. Kos became a safe haven for Bush-haters. But obviously people are Bush haters for all sorts of different reasons. And the one common denominator about Kos was that it seemed to increasingly attract the most rabid and loudest of the Bush haters. A group which, in my opinion, trends overwhelmingly male, white, and in white collar jobs. And which is largely also made up of ex-Republicans and independents, who saw nothing wrong with reading the Drudge Report back in the 1990s (assuming they were old enough).

    So I guess my point is that as Kos developed over the course of the Bush administration, it went from being a liberal blog inclined to hating the Bush administration and whose members were a little angry about it –> an anti-Bush blog inclined to being liberal whose member were very angry about it –> an anti-Bush blog whose members were very angry –> an angry blog. And while I’m myself oft outraged and angry, I’m still a proud liberal. And I don’t think that’s true of most Kos members today.

  30. riverdaughter– yes, “on both sides.” Meteor Blades has said that all along too. I was really disappointed in MB, because he made noises as if he wanted to help clean up the site, but he never really followed through and kept arguing that the problems were “on both sides”!!!

    I love your blog and I come here first thing every morning now. I’m a morning person so I miss a lot of the late night conversation, but I like to read it in the morning. I would love it if you broadened the site so that it was more interactive. It would be nice to be able to reply directly to people’s messages, etc. I know it is a lot of work for you, but you are great! I never had any real respect for Markos. I went there for the diaries and the interaction in comments.

  31. dailykos became a sensory deprivation environment for obamites where they could float indefintely at neutral buoyancy, sheltered from sights or sounds of empirica, feedback or processing. before long, vivid unchecked hallucinations began sweeping through their unraveling neural nets.

    No wonder they embrace such bizarre impressions of Hillary … they have no way of knowing otherwise!

  32. ronkseattle– LOL! What a perfect description! It’s an echo chamber there. Those of us who were buying into the consensus reality of this echo chamber became intolerable to them. I can’t believe I kept going back there for so long even though it gave me a headache and and upset stomach. It’s such a relief now to feel detached about it and be able to laugh at the sad spectacle dk has become.

  33. Oops! I meant “those of us who weren’t buying into…”

  34. I’ve never hung out at Kos but I appreciate that there are people on the net who are left leaning and not starry eyed over Obama. My radar blares when he is on the tube. I can’t stand him.

  35. BB: I’m an east coaster. There isn’t a lot of late night chat, at least not on my part. Expanding is a great idea but I will need some help. We’ll work on it. Maybe the BFF can help. He’s good at that whole perl thing.
    Teddyrex: very astute observations. I think you are correct. It is much more libertarian, like kos himself.
    gqmartinez: Still shocking cells? Should I send Rico around with an espresso?

  36. skitty: I don’t know what to think about Obama. i think he is a construct, a vessel. I get the feeling that we aren’t seeing the true Obama. He is a vehicle for some other movement. So, really, my opinion of him is more of a reflection of who is pulling his strings. I don’t hate the man and he does’t make me squeamish, I just don’t know enough about him to want to make him my president.
    His supporters, on the other hand (OTOH), are another story. THEM I am extremely disappointed with. A country full of Obamaphiles *does* make me uneasy. About as uneasy as a bunch of wingnut freepers.

  37. rd, I’ve got some experience that might be useful.

    bb, I actually like some aspects of the non-threaded posts. I think it keeps us more in touch with each other.

    It might be totally unwieldy as the site grows (5,000 visitors today!)

  38. FYI, I’m a dailykos Ancient — a Front Pager from the time before diaries, before user IDs, even before Meteor Blades. In fact, I’m the only Ancient still active.

    And I’m one of the Desaparecidos — the FP’ers kos will not name when he recounts the story of dailykos.

    Are there stories I could tell? Yes. And maybe someday will. But first there’s a new habitat to construct.

  39. riverdaughter and katiebird– I like the site as is too. It’s nice having a specific thread when everyone converses. Talkleft is that way too, except they do have the separate comments where you can reply to people. I wonder what software they use? I know nothing, but I will help in any way I can, including (small) donations. It is such a relieve to have found this place!

  40. ronkseattle, I probably read your stuff then — I started hanging out there around this time of year in 2003. But, I’m a nobody. Very few diaries (considering my years) but a fair amount of comments. I remember some dramatic falling-outs even back then. There was a woman who wrote about her cat (I think) and BAM she was gone. At least that’s my memory.

    BB, TalkLeft is a Scoop site. I’ve had several WordPress sites and (years and years ago) a Drupal site.

  41. Alegre’s post is making news at Marc Ambinder blog for The Atlantic.

  42. ronk: yes! We are so subversive. Bwahahahaha!!!!

  43. thanks Ronk – Marc is a whole new category . A very different group reads the Atlantic – this is not going to go away any quicker than the Mentor story is going away ..

    so much for hope .

    nite all 😉 .. big HUGS to Everyone NEW & seasoned !

  44. Wow. How wonderful and yet sad to read that diary. I never really posted a whole lot at DKOS. But I remember I started reading it years ago.

    Markos actually coming twice (at my invitation) to speak to my local democratic club. The members loved him because he was charming and gracious. Plus he spoke so passionately about the need to reform the party and (most importantly) the necessity not to create stars. In other words, there would be no leader. However, I do remember our oldest member asking how long he thought that would last.

    Now I wonder what really happened. Did he and the FPers get caught up in the hype? Or do we really need leaders to monitor behavior? Or were the rumors true that Rove would flood the blogs with Republican operatives to disrupt them?

  45. http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/03/14/clinton_role_in_health_program_disputed/

    This is the Boston Globe article challenging Hillary’s claim to have worked to get SCHIP passed–they had Orrin Hatch coming out to say she had nothing to do with it, etc. He likes her, etc, but she’s claiming credit where none is due.

    The MCM has played this game with her work in Northern Ireland–and there was immediate response over there as well as repostes here.

    Anyone found refutations on this topic?

    I can’t believe Hillary, as savvy as she is, would claim something whch isn’t true.

    Do note how the MCM (Mainstream Corporate Media) gets negative things about Hillary at the drop of a rolodex card, but they seem to know so little about Obama….

  46. Thank you thank you,I Posted there a few times the hate is almost unbearable.I e-mailed Markos and asked him to do a mia culpa on accusing HRC of darkening Obama in an add.For that I was banned.I hope you don’t go back ever I know I won’t.

  47. Now, site info:

    How can I leave the comment I’m working on to get links or quotes for pasting? What happens is I paste something, forget about the quirk, go out for more info to paste–come back to blank screen.

    Not complaining! I am so happy to have found this site. And I can’t recall how I got here–it was serendipitous, however.

  48. jawbone,

    CNN did a “fact check” on that article and they backed up HRCs statements. They even used Ted Kennedy’s own documented praise of her work on SCHIP to prove it!

  49. I read daily kos before it was on scoop myself, lurked a while before signing up so was user #2604 I think (not going back to check now).

    RonK, what *did* you do that got you disappeared? I know the non-reality-based stuff there is nothing new, but was my impression that at least before the Dean thing ramped up, most Kossacks (all couple hundred or so) could have a reasonable discussion.

  50. I have discovered your site via Shakesville. You’re now on my newsreader. Like most, there are blogs I have stopped reading, kicked off my bookmarks / reader:
    L,G and M
    (never was a fan of HuffPo because of Deepak Chopra)

    some I can still read but not the comments
    Washington Monthly
    Crooks and Liars

    And then new blogs I started reading:
    Talk Left
    Taylor Marsh
    The Confluence
    Tom Watson

    Overall not a bad trade, I’ll say.

    I am French living in the US, so I don’t vote but I have contributed to HRC’s campaign (it’s legal).

    I am glad there is an online community of HRC supporters that are still sane in spite of everything… but you know what? We owe it to the great lady we support to stay sane and keep going!

    Riverdaughter, if you’re interested in expanding in content, my blog URL is listed. Otherwise, I’ll remain a regular reader of your great site.

  51. riverdaughter,

    Thank you for the invitation to your lovely blog. I have been reading i since shortly after you started it, and I hope to be a more regular user.

    Alegre has stirred it up quite a bit over at the Daily Kos. If there are any more thoughtful people left over there, I think they will find themselves quite bored without the opportunity to engage in debate with people with different opinions.

    Their loss : )

  52. “And unlike some, I do blame Obama, because many of the memes have been fostered directly by his campaign”

    I agree with you. To me, Obama’s just a politician, and as such not responsible for his supporters. But since he’s running n “New Politics” I think he has a responsibility to not only not foster the vtriol, but to tell his supporters to tone it down. Deval patrick ran under a similar banner, but we was sincere, and he would chide his supporters even for responding harshly to really nasty stuff coming from his Republican opponent. It really irks me that Obama says he’s a uniter and that makes it so, no matter what kind of garbage he’s winking it.

  53. Charles: I can only imagine how difficult it must be for Edwards supporters to be without a candidate. I appreciate the thoughtfulness and reflection that lead you to us. We are not perfect and we understand our candidate’s weaknesses. But some of us believe she is the right person for the job at this period in our nation’s history. And she believes in core Democratic principles like shared responsibility. Edwards and Hillary share that in common.
    Did you know that there is a group of former Edwards Kossacks at EENR? You can find the link in the blogroll. Of course, we are happy to have you here.

  54. Thanks for the warm welcome Goldberry!

  55. Well, I never knew you as goldberry, but I knew you in Spirit the moment I met you in WordPress!

    Do we ever have feminist mindlink & history though we grew up on separate coasts!


    thank you! for being out in the vast frontiers of thought!
    (actually If I were more savvy I think this is what they mean by social networking with somebody your own age!)

  56. I am quite sure no one knew who I was at DailyKos…I started posting when Kos became quite supportive of a South Dakota congressional candidate in 200..3? 4?. I rarely posted diaries and kept most of my commenting to S. Dakota issues.

    I left the site once during an awful flame war over a sexist ad posted on the front page, and didn’t think much about DailyKos after that…until this election, when I was sure that posters there would be excited about both Clinton and Obama. When I actually started reading the diaries and comments, I was really taken aback. I stuck around for a few weeks, giving high ratings to Hillary supporters, occasionally commenting on a diary or two, but I agree with everyone else…the situation at DailyKos really can’t continue and I can’t be a part of it right now. I’ll be reading and commenting…

  57. Another refugee from Kos. I won’t be going back. It is one thing to slam candidates on real issues but when Kos distorts facts and makes up stuff just to fuel hate, then I don’t need to participate. Also, too many of the Obama supporters there sound more and more like Bush supporter clones and use much the same tactics.

  58. Great site, Goldberry.

  59. I left a while ago and have only been back to recommend some bloggers. Who would have ever thought Kos would become the anti-blog?

  60. “On both sides”

    Yes, I’ve seen this argument, that the downward spiral is the fault of both sides. I vehemently disagree, and I do so as an Edwards supporter like Charles, so I can say with some measure of objectivity that I’ve looked at life from both sides now, and here I am! There’s a reason I’m here at this blog, and that’s because the Obama movement is negative, bullying, fawning and hypocritical to a degree that I have never seen from Clinton supporters. From the beginning, I recognized that I was more at home among Clinton supporters, and Obama and his fans were setting off more and more warning bells. I found myself defending Clinton from every vile talking point in the book, and as I did so, I realized the extent to which I had been “programmed” about her. I like to think I’m not affected by that kind of thing, but now I realize I was… and moreover, I see how casual and pervasive that kind of programming is. I see this vibrant growing community, and I feel better than I have felt in a long time.

    I read a comment by another Edwards supporter elsewhere — wouldn’t it be ironic, yet wonderful, if the Obama Movement created lines of communication/cooperation between our communities? I feel it’s already happened, and I’m grateful for it.

    In any case, the Confluence is my new home. No more money or bandwidth offered to sites like Dkos or DU — to heck with them. It’s better here. Thank you so much, Riverdaughter!

  61. DKos member 22174 here. Back in ’03 signed up. No more. I have been defending Hillary more and more. Weird since I was a Dodd supporter. Lived in Arkansas from ’90 to ’95 and can appreciate all that Hillary did. Her work on getting health care to PLWA was fantastic. Despite Huckabee etc fighting every step of the way.

    I am a Libertarian Democrat. Which is what Markos claims to be. As a Libertarian I find the arguments of Social Democrats to be very compelling. For complex, economic reasons. To make a long story short, arguing against Universal Health Care is about as sensible as promoting an ‘everyone should treat their own sewerage’ plan. Health care is a unitary phenomenom, from simple sanitation to heart surgery.

    Thanks for the site.

  62. DaleA: glad you made it. Do you feel better now? betcha your blood pressure is down.

  63. I’m not sure which bothers me more….completely unmoderated groups or groups with message-level moderation, where they actually delete your messages if you disagree with the blog owner.

    Haven’t decided yet. Know that I won’t be posting at either anymore.

  64. anon: There *is* a moderation queue here but you only get dumped into it if you use the (secret) trigger words. Then, one of us has to examine the comment in context. Censorship isn’t my goal. Unnecessary harrassment is. Many of our commenters are abused refugees from other blogs like DailyKos. They’re just tired of fighting so I try to keep belligerent types on a short leash. There’s nothing wrong with expressing your opinion but unfortunately, we are presently existing in a nanny state. People who attempt to intimidate or bully commenters here will have their comments deleted. Everything else is Ok.

  65. Riverdaughter: I wasn’t saying you were doing this, but I’ve noticed such things on other Hillary-centric blogs (won’t name names). I don’t know which is worse….

    I was just making a point.

    That said, I love reading here. Thank you for your site.

  66. I stopped commenting at DKos a while ago, and the few times I wrote a longer piece, one with pro-Hillary references, the Faux-left Manichaean Stalinist piranhas hit it in record time.

    I tried to to delete my entire account in protest, but couldn’t find a way to do it. Any thoughts?

    Glad you’ve made this space in cyberspace, Riverdaughter.

  67. Alegre’s diary was brilliant. Didn’t see it until I read about it here. By the time I got there it was off the list and they had turned the comments off, but the comments that were there were unbelievable. I remember when Alegre would be complimented by Obama supporters as a tenacious but positive spokesperson for Hillary. But the comment thread looks like something out of the Spanish Inquisition.

  68. I am thrilled to join the strike. I have removed The Daily Kos from my favorites and will not return! I have been a daily visitor to that site since the 2004 elections (until today). I mostly lurked but sometimes commented. I was attacked viciously and with impunity for simply defending Hillary Clinton against completely unsubstantiated attacks there. It was quite shocking to be treated that way by people I considered like-minded democrats.

    I’ve added this site to my favorites to take the place of DKos and will stop by every day.

  69. BTW, if you read that NYTimes piece on the Dkos writer’s strike, Kos pretty much tells us to not let the door hit us on the way out. Which is perfectly fine with me. I just get the feeling that he is so far out of it and in his own little world that he doesn’t see what is happening to the site.
    The remaining Kossacks are delusional. They truly believe that Obama is unbeatable. What are they going to do when he is beat?

  70. what is EENR? Just got back. sorry i’m not 24 x 7 😉

  71. Down with Daily Kos! Up with people-powered politics!

  72. […] The Confluence – River Daughter Welcome Union Members […]

  73. Thanks so much for Confluence, Riverdaughter. It’s a kindly place, peaceful, intelligent, and progressive! I love the blogroll, too. Anglachel is brilliant, in my humble opinion, and Sugernspice is a feisty truth-teller with an exquisite sense of what’s really happening. I had to “quit” DailyKos’ mob mentality and thuggish group-think. It’s been shocking to see “progressives” sink to such depths of hypocrisy and group-think. I admire Alegre for her courage in braving the vile atmosphere at Kos for as long as she did; and for always maintaining a tone of openness and calmness in her responses to the attacks. That takes a special sort ot steel and Alegre’s got it in bucketloads. I’ll be here reading and learning, and am grateful for the community.

    Cheers, and Happy St. Patricks Day everyone! 🙂

  74. Hillary Clinton Supporters at Daily Kos Go On Stri

    Republicans have despaired about whether there is any chance of electing a Republican as President but increasingly many are saying, “Yes we can!”

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