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I call it “raw”

Here is a post from TIME on the FL and MI proposal currently under discussion:

–Michigan’s 156 delegates would be split 50-50 between Clinton and Obama.

–Florida’s existing delegates would be seated at the Denver convention—but with half a vote each. That would give Clinton a net gain of about 19 elected delegates.

– The two states’ superdelegates would then be able to vote in Denver, likely netting Clinton a few more delegates.

The betting: Florida and Michigan delegates, the DNC, and the Clinton campaign would all — some reluctantly– accept this deal.

Then it would be over to you, Barack Obama.

To *me*, it looks like asking for a complete capitulation from Hillary. Does anyone see something different?

Bumped up from the comments from Tucsonlynn:

From an email I just got. I suggest using it. to express your outrage.

“Word is filtering out from the campaign that we should contact people we know at the DNC ASAP. The FL and MI decision will be going down soon. The person we should really pressure is Phil McNamara. Phil will not be making decisions but he is the staffer who runs all affairs for the Rules and Bylaws Committee. Also if he receives a flood of messages it will get back to Dean.

Obama is pushing for a 50-50 split of the delegates. That doesn’t refelct the will of the people. It reflects the wishful thinking of the Obama campaign.”

Phil McNamara

Now’s your chance, guys. Make your voice heard, especially if you are in a state that went decisively for Clinton. Without FL and MI, our votes are meaningless as well. Let them know that there are millions of us out here who know what’s going on and the jig is up. Make it polite, of course. But if you must, tell them, “Don’t make me come to Denver and cause a scene.”

85 Responses

  1. No, No, and NO. I cannot believe this is happening. I am from Michigan and I want my vote to help Clinton not equally help Obama. This is ridiculous. If Clinton accepts this deal I swear I will campaign to get people to write in her name for the general election. How can this in any way be democratic or fair to the voters in MI & FL? I hope that MI and FL voters protest this. If we have to go to Washington and have a million voter march then so be it. I am so angry right now. I hope Hillary doesn’t accept this deal.

  2. (fuming) The 1/2 delegation penalty might have worked way back when. But, it’s too late for that.

    How far does Hillary have to go? she’s already had Carville raise the money for revotes — he wouldn’t have done that without her approval.

    Why is this What Obama Wants week?

  3. Katiebird: I like that. It’s WOW week. I dread to say it but if this is what it takes for Obama to snag the nomination, the GOP may paint him as the affirmative action candidate. We have bent over backwards to give him every possible advantage over a more qualified candidate. We gave him votes he didn’t earn and canceled votes for another candidate. The GOP could make a very ugly thing out of it and they would have ample material to work with.
    For Obama’s sake, I hope he doesn’t go this route.

  4. NO! No splitting the MI votes. Give Hillary her fair share and make Obama and Hillary woo the uncommitteds! How many of those voters were Edwards voters who might have supported Hillary?

    Florida? The half vote solution was the original penalty until the DNC decided to go all draconian on Florida’s ass. I think they should all be seated. All candidates were on the ballot. Seat’em.

  5. !! Wow, riverdaughter — it sounds like a good Blog Series: each week a new WOW… they’ll always be something….

    I want to clarify that I would love to Seat the Delegates as they Stand, but even more I would love to SMASH Obama again in both MI & FL (and PA & Puerto Rico) — that string of losses would be devastating.

    These people who’ve Proven that Hillary doesn’t have a chance are looking at different numbers than me. I actually don’t see how HE has a chance.

    On Sunday the people on This Week were noticing how many chances he’s had to knock her out. And that it seems impossible.

    And on the Front Page of the Kansas City Star today it says that more people like the idea of a Hillary/Obama ticket than an Obama/Hillary ticket. Right on the front page.

  6. Is it bad form to repost what I said in the previous thread?

    Clinton should really go nuclear at this stage and stop playing along with this assholes. This is Bush vs. Gore all over again. Gore was putting his country first, not realizing that what state this bandits would bring his country to.

    Hillary, it’s about the right to vote. Never give up on people’s right to vote. Hillary, you can’t bargain voters’ fundamental right away. You just can’t.

  7. ghost — sorry I missed what you said. Do you want a revote or no? And nuclear how? What actions would you have her do?

    I think we should start an email campaign — but what to push?

    I’m for re-voting because SHE’LL crush Barry. Crush Him.

  8. Hi, just a note to let you know that you are blocked when I try and view you from Turkey (I have to use Anonymouse.org to get here). I have searched for armenian, turk, turkey, etc. in the search bar at the top but can’t for the life of me figure out why you would be blocked. Just so you know, when you try and reach the site directly from Turkey you get the following message:

    Bu siteye erişim mahkeme kararıyla engellenmiştir.

    T.C. Fatih 2.Asliye Hukuk Mahkemesi 2007/195 Nolu Kararı gereği bu siteye erişim engellenmiştir.

    Access to this site has been suspended in accordance with decision no: 2007/195 of T.C. Fatih 2.Civil Court of First Instance.

  9. I think she should stop playing nice, and consider the good of the party. She should just get the fighter out and tell them to take a hike.

    she should get a huge microphone out/ ads/surrogates beating this issue, and ask for either seating the current delegates or a re-vote. She should ask for a revote and emphasize that she’d be happy with current delegates being seated, but that’s not what Obama and DNC want. She should remind people of Florida 2000, of the right to vote and for the vote to be counted, that every citizen has. That citizens are not responsible for republican legistlature’s shenigans.

    She is disciplined, but this is a time for passion and raising hell. She can’t be like Gore. She can’t worry about appearances. You can’t give your country to thuggish behavior, b/c then the thugs take over.

    She is running to be POTUS, and a fundamental part of that is preserving the constitution, and the fundation of that constitution is the citizen’s right to vote and for that vote to be counted. There is NOTHING more fundamental than that.

    If you give in here, the republic has officially become an Animal Farm, in which the pigs have taken over. You can’t do that.

  10. (nodding) I like it Ghost. Send her an email. I used the contact us form on her website — but maybe there’s a better option?

  11. Adam: Well that’s interesting. What does it mean?

  12. Hi everyone – different subject , referring to Riverdaughters piece earlier .. Thursday- Jeremiah’s Right

    If this has been posted all ready – forgive me .. I just read it ..

    I think I got this from Taylor Marsh .. not sure am reading too much today .. lol .. 😉

    Heck this may bring in more votes from him ., who knows?

    forgive if all ready posted or delete .. thank YOU

  13. katiebird,

    try ann.lewis@hillaryclinton.com

  14. I would like to write cogently about this attempted highway robbery engineered by the Obama campaign, I need more valium.

    The idea that we all have to go in our knees to please the candidate who wins AK (8,000 total votes), WY (9,000), NE (12,000), ID (20,000) ND (20,000) to the detriment of the candidate who overwhelmingly wins CA, NY, NJ, MA, OH and actually won MI and FL is beyond me.

    This goes only to make my point: The Democratic Party is rule by saboteurs and f*#@ing idiots!


  15. I am home early, and Tweety is going to report on the fact that Obama opposes a mail-in. I’m not sure what slant he will put on it.

    Oh, here it comes. He’s going to interview Ed Schulttz and Mike Smerconish. Ugh.

    Oh, no, first we are going to revisit the Gerry Ferraro issue. Has Hillary apologized enough?

  16. Okay, so Ed Schultz is blasting Hillary (she’s mean, she’s racist, blah blah blah) while Smerconish is defending Hillary, albeit in a rather skeezy way that she could live without. A pattern, according to Schultz, which shows that the racist statements of the Clinton surrogates is deliberate. No, Schultz is now saying they are undisciplined. Tweety says, so, you are admitting it wasn’t deliberate.

    I love how the MSNBarack network picks its guests.

  17. From an email I just got. I suggest using it. to express your outrage.

    “Word is filtering out from the campaign that we should contact people we know at the DNC ASAP. The FL and MI decision will be going down soon. The person we should really pressure is Phil McNamara. Phil will not be making decisions but he is the staffer who runs all affairs for the Rules and Bylaws Committee. Also if he receives a flood of messages it will get back to Dean.

    Obama is pushing for a 50-50 split of the delegates. That doesn’t refelct the will of the people. It reflects the wishful thinking of the Obama campaign.”

    Phil McNamara

  18. Thanks, tucsonlynn — I’ll craft my messages on the way home and I’ll send them tonight.

    I think she’s got to say that she wants them seated as is, but she supports and endorses the re-votes. And that Obama must do so also.

    What does this group think? Can she hold firm for seating them as is? Will that work?

  19. Katiebird: I think she wins with either option and she should hold firm.

  20. Hi riverdaughter, I’d like us to be using the same talking points if possible. I think it gives the message power. What can we say that short & sweet & strong?

  21. litigatormom: “I love how the MSNBarack network picks its guests.”

    That is something I have observed for a long time, especially on Hardballs or Matthews’ puke inducing show on Sundays.

    Regularly, to discuss anything about Hillary or Bill Clinton he would have a panel comprised of:

    Christopher Hitchens
    Emmett Tyrrell
    Peggy Noonan
    and a “serious”, “responsible” and “neutral” “journalist” like Gloria Borger.

    Does he convene such a panel for a substantial discussion or to give the an additional platform for all kinds of vile smears and insults towards the Clintons. These guys don’t even know how transparent they are.

  22. I like riverdaughter’s ‘Don’t make me come to Denver and cause a scene “idea. lol

  23. Katiebird: I do NOT think we should use the same talking points. I think everyone should figure it out in their own heads and put it in their own words. It’s more powerful that way and much more authentic. But if you’re looking for ideas, you can start with my post on Dean giving the other Clinton states the finger. That’s where the crux of the argument is. Without Fl and MI, the other Clinton states don’t have the critical mass to put her clearly in the front. They are gaming the system and we know what they’re up to.
    After that, you can list why the proposal as it stands inappropriately awards delegates to Obama and this decision will have repercussions down the road should he become the nominee. Also, it still disenfranchises voters in Florida and unfairly punishes them for a decision they had no control over.

  24. rd: (Thinking aloud) Voter disenfranchisement is THE issue of course. And I think that if there’s any risk that the delegations will be considered second-rate THAT’s an issue.

    What I Want to know is: Why are the revotes only now being called illegal? With all the lawyers involved in this shouldn’t that have come out earlier?

    ARE they illegal? or is that a bluff

    (still thinking)

  25. katiebird,

    yes..’What I Want To Know’ …
    and tell him you just took off your lapel pin…that was you right?
    Howard has really upset me with this issue.

  26. Coming up in Sunday’s nytimes….

    The assumption has always been that a black candidate should perform worse among white voters in states with less racial diversity because those voters are supposedly less enlightened. In fact, the reverse has been true for Obama: in the overwhelmingly white states of Wisconsin and Vermont, for instance, he carried 54 and 60 percent of the white voters respectively, according to exit polls, while in New Jersey he won 31 percent and in Tennessee he won 26 percent. As some bloggers have shrewdly pointed out, Obama does best in areas that have either a large concentration of African-American voters or hardly any at all, but he struggles in places where the population is decidedly mixed.

  27. I actually think Clinton should give up the “as is” argument, except to say that if “as is” is unacceptable, then 50/50 is no better.

    I think she should make a full-throated, roaring demand for voter enfranchisement, coupled with the statement that she cares more about enfranchising FLA and MI voters than she cares about the results of the re-votes. It’s not about what the candidates want, it’s about what the voters are entitled to.

    It gives her the moral high ground, eliminates the “she’s changing the ROOLz” argument, and makes Obama’s position completely untenable.

  28. I just wrote the DNC and told them how angry I’d be if there was not another fair re-vote in Florida and Michigan.

    Also, Pelosi was on TV today saying Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton won’t be the ticket.

    Speaking for myself, if I don’t see Clinton’s name on the ticket this fall, I will be beyond appeasement. Another woman’s name on the ticket will not do.

    After working for the Democrats for 35 years, I am done after this one with Hillary. She is the best candidate of the three, and I will not “get over it”.

  29. Yes, riverdaughter — that’s me. I took off the Dean Lapel pin just 2 weeks ago. Luckily my Hillary Pin arrived on Monday so I feel fully dressed again….

    Here’s another thing I’ve mulled over:

    Taking this compromise would make both the MI & FL delegates 2nd class. MI because they wouldn’t actually be representing ANY voters. They’d be place-holders for the state. And seating 1/2 the FL delegates? How insulting. In this year when for the first time in memory EVERY vote should count, FL gets 1/2 a vote — a shocking insult that it’s even considered!

    (still thinking)

  30. sarah says:

    “After working for the Democrats for 35 years, I am done after this one with Hillary. She is the best candidate of the three, and I will not “get over it”.

    lynn says: what sarah says.

    My own darling husband last night accused me of not being a good enough democrat for not realizing that Obama is not the enemy.
    This after a so called (now former) mutual friend called me a f**%ing hag for supporting Hillary.
    Men, you can’t live with them and you can’t kill them.

    what sarah says indeed.

  31. What would be done with Edwards’ delegate(s)?

  32. Jake Tapper tonight said that Hillary’s referring to LBJ as being necessary along with MLK to pass the civil rights legislation was “considered” disrespectful of MLK and possibly “racist.” I’m not remembering the exact words…because I was yelling at the TV.

  33. Dear Mr. McNamara:

    I have just read that the following is being proposed as a way to “solve” the issue of what to do about the votes from Florida and Michigan in the Democratic primary:

    > –Michigan’s 156 delegates would be split 50-50 between Clinton and Obama.
    > –Florida’s existing delegates would be seated at the Denver convention—but with half a vote each.
    > – The two states’ superdelegates would then be able to vote in Denver.

    This is entirely unfair and unacceptable to me as a lifelong Democrat. It awards unearned delegates and votes to one candidate and takes earned votes and delegates away from the other.

    My grandfather was a union organizer for the coal miners. My mother took me to work on the McGovern campaign the first year I was able to vote at 18. I have been a Democrat and Democratic Party supporter all my life. If you follow this absurd and outrageously unfair plan, I will change my affiliation to Independent and sit this election out. You will never see another penny of my money.

    Revote Florida and Michigan, by mail if possible. Revote in Florida, perhaps, by sending ballots to registered Democrats who did not vote January 29 and add the votes of those who did to the existing results. Revote Michigan with two Democratic candidates on the ballot.

    This is the only option that is fair.

    If you follow this ridiculous plan of awarding 1/2 delegates and splitting delegates, you are negating the votes of Floridians and Michiganders. You are disenfranchising them. You are not allowing them to choose their candidate for president. You are ensuring that Democrats lose these states in the general election.

    I live in Denver, less than a mile from the Pepsi Center. Don’t make me come over there and cause a scene this August.


    (name withheld)

  34. Ooooh. But I *want* to go to Denver and cause a scene!!
    [Btw, txt me what size the girlchild wears]

  35. Heh.

    Mr. McNamara wrote me back, asking “where did you get my email address?”

    I told him “Online. Expect more where this came from. A LOT more.”

  36. According to BTD at Talkleft, Hillary is not putting up a fight about the revotes. I can’t understand that. I wrote to MSNBC this morning and as soon as I saw the link here, I wrote to the DNC. I am mad!

    And another thing. I’m really getting tired of Barack Obama. He does not wear well. I’m so tired of seeing and hearing him that I wish he would just go away and never be heard from again. If he is the nominee, I don’t know how I’m going to be able to stand it.

  37. I sent the following email to Phil McNamara and would like to send it to other members on the rule committee but haven’t been able to find any email addresses for them. Can anyone hook me up?

    Here’s a copy of what I sent if anyone needs inspiration:

    To Whom It May Concern,

    Earlier today I read on Time.com about a rumored plan for the Florida and Michigan delegations and was greatly concerned by what was reported. I understand that with the race as close as it is, that the situation is very delicate and coming up with a solution that is fair for everyone is tricky. For this reason, though I don’t agree with it, I can find the proposition of seating the Florida delegation with a penalty of giving each only half a vote acceptable. But I find the idea of splitting the Michigan delegates 50/50 in order to seat them to be an absurd solution to the dilemma of how to allow Michigan voters a say in the nominating process. I fail to understand how giving each candidate an equal number of delegates honors the will of Michigan voters any more than refusing to seat any delegates from that state at all. Either way, the DNC is deciding what ought to be the effect and the outcome of the Michigan primary rather than the voters themselves. I realize that with the missing names on the Michigan ballot, you have to figure out how to handle the Michigan delegation in a way that will not unfairly favor Senator Clinton, but this should not be the way. Senator Clinton had an unfair advantage in that primary, but not one of her own design. Senator Obama took his name off the ballot voluntarily, and his foolish lack of foresight should not be rewarded with unearned delegates. It was done as a political maneuver that ended up coming to haunt his campaign later, and it should not be the role of the DNC to come absolve him of his mistake. Especially not when both he and Senator Edwards actively encouraged their supporters to go to the polls in Michigan and vote uncommitted, an effort that obviously had some payoff as 40% of Michigan voters chose to vote as uncommitted.

    I also feel I must express that while I understand and sympathize with the need for the DNC to discipline states who refused to follow the guidelines set by the national party for the primary calendar, I do not find it just or reasonable to penalize the voters of these states. The decision to move up the primary were made not by the people of Michigan and Florida, but by their legislatures. And in the case of Florida, the decision was even pushed through by a Republican controlled legislature. Democratic voters in neither state have earned such penalty, and I fear that such harsh punishment or disregard for their votes will hurt our chances in carrying these states in November. Florida already promises to be a challenging state for us to pick up, and Michigan isn’t a safe win for us either. I urge you to consider this in your decision over the fate of these delegations. I cannot imagine that if I were a swing voter in either state that I would feel warm toward a Democratic candidate if the national party had excluded me from the nominating process. This is a handicap we can’t really afford to have.

    I’ve been a supporter of the Democratic Party for as long as I’ve been an active voter, and have even made monthly donations to the party out of what little disposable income I have. I’ve made this sacrifice because I believe that we are the party of true democratic principles, and that the health of our country depends on having a properly functioning democracy. But the current plans to deal with the Florida and Michigan delegations violate these principles, and I think that is completely unacceptable. I hope the Rules Committee will reconsider, and will consider taking Governors Rendell and Corzine up on their offers to help raise money to hold a new primary in Michigan, and for Florida too if accepting the existing results out of this state is unacceptable. With as much money as the Democratic candidates have been able to raise this election cycle, it would be a travesty if they and the party itself were unwilling to help re-enfranchise these two states legitimately. If unwillingness to do so is exhibited by any of the involved parties, I’m not sure I will be able in good conscience to continue supporting them with my time or my money.


  38. I think BTD is trying to get us riled up. He knows that Carville found the money to pay for both state elections (challenging Obama to raise 1/2) and her campaign manager wrote a memo about it yesterday.

    But, we have been too quiet. Funny how we’re ready to do something about it now.

    Hillary’s campaign needs encouragement — But the DNC & Florida & Michigan need PRESSURE.

  39. I like the new full blown Michigan primary idea but with private money funding it.

    Apparently, Florida can’t have a new full blown primary because they’re switching to optical voting machines. Wolf Blitzer suggested an old fashioned paper ballot process and I like that idea now since the mail in is having trouble. That or keep the original Florida results.

  40. Alright! A Michigan deal is close to being finalized!


    Now, what to do with Florida. I would love to have a new full blown primary there so as to prevent any howls of protests from the Obamabots. Can they borrow or rent voting machines from other states?

  41. I have already written to Mr. McNamara. Do your figure that Dean’s email is dean@dnc.org? couldn’t hurt. I am also sending letters to the SDs in my state. I am from Maryland, so we have lots. If they get pressure, the DNC will hear about it. I am including the Obama supporting ones, they need to know that not supporting the re-vote will have political consequences for both Obama and them.

  42. Mr. McNamare REAALly wants to know where his email address is being found.

    Should I tell him?

  43. Email sent. If they do not make this a fair process for Clinton, I will do as I have promised them. I will leave the party, and either sit out the election or welll…..sit out the election. I cannot believe how incredibly unbalanced and partisan the DNC, and Howard Dean have been throughout this. They cannot do this to lifelong democrats without blow back. I will not be able to put this behind me again and act like this is the party I have supported for a lifetime. It is a complete failure, and needs completely revamped before I can ever take it seriously again.

  44. O.k. – I sent this to Mr. Mcnamara – .I hope I was clear enough .. It’s not very sophisticated , but I did my best .

    Dear Mr. McNamara

    I read today on the Page, Time Magazine of what you may be planning for Fla. & MI. This would be completely
    unfair . We are democrats . This solution is not even close to being democratic .

    I do realize this whole thing is extremely difficult and sensitive to all concerned, however we simply cannot end up
    anywhere remotely close to the Gore /Bush election in 2000 . All votes somehow must be counted . Splitting
    Michigan’s delegates 50 – 50 , or having Fla. delegates being seating, but with 1/2 vote each is not even close
    to be fair or progressive in any way .

    Every vote needs to count and as Democrats we really need to differentiate
    ourselves from Republicans and Florida in 2000.

    I am depending on you and the democrats to resolve this issue in a fair way .

    Thank YOU so much Mr. McNamara .

    then I referenced the Page after my signature .

    If anyone has any other address for me I will write , but I do not know these people .. so .. 😉

  45. Our E-mail to the DNC:

    It is impossible to believe the mess that the DNC has created with the current POTUS primary – Hillary Clinton broke no rules, and she is entitled to every delegate that she earned in Michigan and Florida.

    On the other hand, if the DNC does not seat the MI and FLA delegates, you can kiss both states good-bye in the general election AND my husband and I will join with countless others in sitting out this election should Barack Obama become the candidate because of this “boneheaded” decision.

    DO THE RIGHT THING. Seat the delegates won as a result of the original primary votes.

  46. I found this in the comments section on No Quarter:
    Just something that will make you smile but should any of us be surprised? KO obviously has issues with women like most of the A-list blogger boys for Obama.

  47. Keith Olberman has another diary up at dk, and it makes no sense to me. I can’t begin to understand what he’s talking about except he does mention a Clinton campaign conference call which I happen to listen to last night on XM radio. I’m starting to wonder if KO is actually losing it–seriously. Or maybe he had too much to drink before writing that diary?

  48. I wrote my letter to the DNC:

    Dear Phil McNamara,

    In support of re-votes in Florida and Michigan, I am writing to express my concern about the status of the Florida and Michigan delegations.

    My concerns regarding this issue have been growing throughout the winter as everywhere I looked the possible votes from Florida and Michigan were completely disregarded. At first, I argued against a wide-spread belief that because “Rules are Rules” the two states wouldn’t be seated at all. Can you imagine that, I’d ask? The commentators would look over the convention floor and talk about how HISTORIC this convention is — NOT because of our two candidates — but because for the first time ever two states are missing from the convention floor.

    It’s shocking: There are people in this country who are prepared to keep the Florida and Michigan delegates off the floor in support of the DNC Rules!

    Are we seriously considering disenfranchising the voters of those states? I can’t tell from public reports of compromises that include:

    1. The audacious idea of splitting the Michigan delegation in half for Senators Clinton and Obama
    2. Punishing the Florida delegation by cutting their delegation in half.

    Governor Dean might have said, we can do better than that. What I want to know is, why aren’t we?

    As Democrats in the oldest democracy on the planet, are we compromising voter rights for rules and process? Are we going to nominate a candidate at a convention tainted by second-class delegations? For what else could the delegations of Florida and Michigan be if they don’t represent voters in officially sanctioned elections?

    Last week, James Carville announced that he had donors committed to contributing half the cost of new primaries in Florida and Michigan. This week I’m hearing talk of “simply half’s” dividing the Michigan delegation and cutting the Florida delegation. This is unacceptable.

    The Democratic party is better than these shenanigans indicate. We can hold primaries in those two states, we must.

    Even in Kansas, people are talking, Mr. McNamara — and it doesn’t sound good. Please ask Governor Dean to speak for us. Ask him to get primaries on the schedule for Florida and Michigan. In this year when every vote counts, let’s count every vote.

    Thank you.


    About KO — I can’t go to dk anymore….

  49. Obama, who has rejected support from Farrakhan, assured voters his Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago does not endorse such messages. ”I have never heard an anti-Semitic (remark) made inside of our church. I have never heard anything that would suggest anti-Semitism on the part of the pastor,” Obama said in a transcript of his remarks released later. ”He (Wright) is like an old uncle who sometimes will say things that I don’t agree with. And I suspect there are some of the people in this room who have heard relatives say some things that they don’t agree with — including, on occasion, directed at African-Americans.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfNEfEBYIZs

    We all saw how he owes his “rejection” of Farrakhan to Hillary…….

  50. Obama’s actions during this Florida-Michigan fiasco removes any legitimicy from the “Clinton will do anything to get the nomination – Democratic Party be damned” narrative. The result of the proposed 50-50 delegate split would be the alienation of 6 in 10 Dem voters in Florida and 50% of those in Michigan, more than enough to hand those electoral votes to the Repugs. Obama’s actions also leave me to wonder how a disciple of Rev Wright who preaches about the legacy, pain and the injustice of the 3/5 rule could ever seek to reduce the value of an American and their vote to 1/2. Must have missed that sermon too.

  51. prohillary–

    I think it’s too late for Obama to reject his “spiritual advisor’s” hate speech. Presumably, Obama was present and hear what his pastor said on many occasions. As Joseph Cannon says, Obama would have to have resigned his membership immediately in order to dissociate himself from Wright’s 9/11 comments.


    Cannon writes: “Obama may think that he can undo the damage by finding the right mollifying words, but those words do not and never will exist. Actions speak louder than. Obama attended that church for twenty years.

    He cannot claim ignorance. The media did not “cherry pick” Wright’s statements; Wright sells video tapes of his sermons, and many of them are incendiary. When Wright screamed “God damn America!” or when he blamed America for 9/11, Obama — if he had any political ambitions at all — should have walked out and resigned his membership.

    He did not.”

    “Wright still has a minor but official position in the Obama campaign.”

    “You cannot undo the past. You may think that you can justify the things that Wright has said, but your rationalizations simply do not matter. Barack Obama cannot become president without the votes of white America, and many whites will feel repulsed by Obama’s ‘mentor.'”

  52. Katybird–

    That is a great letter. As for swearing off Kos, I’m getting there. I just can’t help taking a peek every once in awhile. But I don’t read any of the hate diaries and I skip most of the comments. I will break my addiction soon. It’s almost gone.

    Meanwhile riverdaughter is getting extremely popular. I was out all day yesterday, and last night I caught up on all the posts and comments here. This is great! Traffic must have gone up exponentially here just in the past week!

    Congratulations to riverdaughter!!

  53. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/14/us/politics/14obama.html?_r=1&ex=1363147200&en=662d3b39b9fd336f&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin

    I found this NYTimes article about Obama’s mother in a comment at Eschaton.

    She sounds like a woman every one of us would love to have as a friend.

    She would have been 66 had she lived, but died of cancer at 53.

    This is the most complete article I’ve found abou her–she seems to have been disappeared into single mom-ness (which wasn’t really that accurate, btw; altho’ the Times gives precious few dates about her second marriage). Maybe the campaign thinks she’s too much of a DFH* for the general public, but, wow, what a woman!

    I did find an article from a Kansas paper weeks ago which told something about her youth, indicating she was a deep and free thinker in high school.

    *DFH–Dirty F**king Hippie

  54. Thanks, Boston Boomer — you’re very kind… I dreamt about it all night, then sat down and wrote it almost before I had my coffee.

    I probably take the dKos thing way too seriously, but as a daily visitor since 2003, I feel betrayed by the violence of the tone there. They’ve always been hard-talkers. But, this new viciousness is too much. I tried to cancel my account — but to no avail. I guess they don’t want to admit to their falling membership rates.

    It seems like it was just last week that this blog hit 10,000 visitors — and now it’s OVER 70,000!! Way to go, riverdaughter: you’re the best.

    Thank you!

  55. http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/12/175034/732


    Two posts, the second with an article by Nuala O’Faolain, about Hillary’s actual work in Northern Ireland.

    Information which our vaunted MCM (Mainstream Corporate Media) simply cannot find! They only have the comment by the grouchy old man who didn’t have much use for wimminfolk doing anything outside the kitchen and church (well, maybe the bedroom as well, but totally controlled by the menfolk).

    Just like with the real reporting done prior to the Iraq Invasion, the MCM can’t find any information other that than given out by BushBoy and the NedCons, and that which fits The Narrative.

    Now, the MCM Narrative is that Hillary must be sunk, disappeared from the primary race.

  56. This is a load of Bullshit.
    Both candidates AGREED IN WRITING not to campaign or Accept any delegates from Florida or Michigan. Now someone wants to change the rules
    in the middle of the game. Either go with the original
    set of rules or run the primaries over again. Anything
    else will be a Bloody mess that will come back to haunt the Democratic party for years.

  57. Brian: Why don’t you go tell that to the 1.7 Million voters in Florida who didn’t have any say in the matter? Go tell them they have to abide by the RULZ. You realize you are losing this argument, don’t you? The game was rigged to exclude Florida and Michigan because Florida, in particular, was a shoe in for Hillary. There was no other reason to exact such an extreme punishment on the voters for something they were forced into.
    If Obama is your guy and he wins the nomination because he suppressed the voters of Florida and Michigan, he will lose in November. I have no doubt about that.
    BTW, why doesn’t Obama just agree to a revote? Why isn’t he enthusiastically supporting the idea and proposing a real solution as to how we can include these two states? Ask yourself that and when you have a logical answer, come back and tell us.

  58. Brian76239, on March 14th, 2008 at 10:40 am Said:
    This is a load of Bullshit.
    Both candidates AGREED IN WRITING not to campaign or Accept any delegates from Florida or Michigan. Now someone wants to change the rules
    in the middle of the game. Either go with the original
    set of rules or run the primaries over again. Anything
    else will be a Bloody mess that will come back to haunt the Democratic party for years.

    So you’re saying that every American voter in Florida agreed to having their votes not count?

    or are you saying the people in leadership positions agreed?

  59. I can already see GOP attack ads on Wright if Obama is the nominee. It will get so many people upset and I don’t blame them one bit.

  60. Question: (I’m so lost with all of the plans flying around…) Other than splitting the delegates 50/50, has Barry and Friends suggested any other alternative? What was the campaign’s “response” to Carville’s offer to pay half for total revotes?

    Why isn’t Obama saying, Let’s revote and get this thing going…time is running out?

    Curious minds would like to know.

  61. I also read the second Olberman diary at Daily Obama and said (to myself) WTF?

    It seems clear that Keith has found a place where he is outwardly adored. He could say Markos is an alien and get 500 rec’s. In fact, when I looked his latest writing effort (it must have been an effort as it made NO sense, except “Here I am again…adore me!!”) had 350 tips.

  62. Here’s a quote I like from Charlotte Whitton former mayor of Ottawa (1963)

    “Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult.”

    Go Hillary!

  63. This is the way Obama likes to win elections:

    Obama has spent his entire political career trying to win the next step up. Every three years, he has aspired to a more powerful political position.

    He was just 35 when in 1996 he won his first bid for political office. Even many of his staunchest supporters, such as Black, still resent the strong-arm tactics Obama employed to win his seat in the Illinois Legislature.

    Obama hired fellow Harvard Law alum and election law expert Thomas Johnson to challenge the nominating petitions of four other candidates, including the popular incumbent, Alice Palmer, a liberal activist who had held the seat for several years, according to an April 2007 Chicago Tribune report.

    Obama found enough flaws in the petition sheets—to appear on the ballot, candidates needed 757 signatures from registered voters living within the district—to knock off all the other Democratic contenders. He won the seat unopposed.

    “A close examination of Obama’s first campaign clouds the image he has cultivated throughout his political career,” wrote Tribune political reporters David Jackson and Ray Long. “The man now running for president on a message of giving a voice to the voiceless first entered public office not by leveling the playing field, but by clearing it.”

    If your interested in the entire insightful article:

  64. The following information gathered from the Library of Congress on the Legislative experience Junior Senator Hillary Clinton and Junior Senator Barack Obama. Please Feel free to check these records for yourself and draw your own conclusion.

    Senator Clinton, who has served only one full term, which is 6 years and another year campaigning, has authored and passed 20 twenty pieces of legislation in her term of six years into law. These bills can be found at (wwwhomas.loc.gov). Senator Clinton has passed.

    (1) Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site.
    (2) Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month.
    (3) Recognize the Ellis Island Medal of Honor.
    (4) Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall.
    (5) Name courthouse after James L. Watson.
    (6) Name post office after Jonn A. O’Shea.
    (7) Designate Aug. 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
    (8) Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
    (9) Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of his death.
    (10) Congratulate the Syracuse Univ. Orange Men’s Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
    (11) Congratulate the Le Moyne College Dolphins Men’s Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
    (12) Establish the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution Commemorative Program.
    (13) Name post office after Sergeant Riayan A. Tejeda.
    (14) Honor Shirley Chisholm for her service to the nation and express condolences on her death.
    (15) Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who lost their lives on duty.

    Only five of Clinton’s bills are, more substantive.
    (16) Extend period of unemployment assistance to victims of 9/11.
    (17) Pay for city projects in response to 9/11
    (18) Assist landmine victims in other countries.
    (19) Assist family caregivers in accessing affordable respite care.
    (20) Designate part of the National Forest System in Puerto Rico as protected in the wilderness preservation system.

    She has a nice list, but note that these are The Fact’s straight from the Senate Record; Therefore, it is not made up.

    Now, It is time to post Senator Obama’s record from the Library of Congress.I have to mention that Senator Obama’s list is too substantive, one is coalesced to categorize. Since its alot, remember you can go to the Library of Congress website, and check it out yourself, but I am just summarizing his first 8 months.

    During Senator Obama’s first 8 eight months of elected service he sponsored over 820 bills.

    He introduced 233 bills regarding healthcare reform,
    125 bills on poverty and public assistance,
    112 bills on crime fighting,
    97 economic bills,
    60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills,
    21 ethics reform bills,
    15 gun control,
    6 veterans affairs and many others.
    In his first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These included:
    (1)the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 that became LAW,
    (2)The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act that became LAW, (3)The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act that passed the Senate,
    (4)The 2007 Government Ethics Bill that became LAW,
    (5)The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill that is in committee just to name a few.

    In all since he entered the U.S. Senate, Senator Obama has written 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1096. An impressive record, for someone who supposedly has no legislative record. Read the facts and not emotion.

  65. Steve — nice try.
    Clinton (in 2007 alone): 157 bills sponsored or co-sponsored
    Obama (in 2007 alone): 120 bills sponsored or co-sponsored
    You thought nobody would check or what? Kinda lazy, even wimpish…figures.

  66. Just a quick thanks for the McNamara contact info. I indeed did send him an e-mail. There is absolutely no argument that can made for a 50-50 split, and personally I feel that such a split may in fact be unconstitutional and not at all in the spirit of the American election system.

  67. JM Leong: Malaysia?
    Yes, I agree. Our American election system has gone topsy turvy and I too am very concerned.

  68. You’re good! That is my married name and yes I married a Malaysian.

  69. I don’t have a problem at all with a revote (and I do agree that a 50/50 split or 1/2 the delegate count is arbitrary and meaningless.) But seating the delegates from the original primaries in Florida and Michigan would be unfair to Sen. Obama. This is because Clinton’s lead early on was based partly on her name recognition and the fact that Obama hadn’t yet been able to campaign in those states (in virtually every state that Obama has campaigned vigorously in, he has narrowed Clinton’s lead–even Texas and Ohio, which he lost, he had quickly closed gaps in the polls). Additionally, at the time of the Michigan and Florida primaries, Obama hadn’t yet established himself as a person with a realistic shot at winning, and he wasn’t allowed to campaign in those states to prove that he DID in fact have a chance at winning. The fact that Obama never was allowed to campaign in Florida or Michigan gave Sen. Clinton a significant advantage early on.

    Either have a whole new primary or don’t seat the delegates. Rules are rules. Florida and Michigan can try to change the rules, but they shouldn’t break the rules and not expect consequences.

    If Clinton wins in a revote, so be it. I won’t protest. But I will be angry if they seat the original delegates.

  70. packerwatch: I don’t buy your argument at all. Obama is a well known politician and has been since 2004. At the time that Florida held its primary, Obama had just come off of a highly publicized win in South Carolina. He got a lot of publicity for that. Not only that but there have been more than a dozen debates and the public has had ample opportunity to hear the policies and experience that he has.
    Now, if what you are really saying is that Obama didn’t have an opportunity to unload his famous stump speech on Florida and have crowds swooning over him and narrowing the gap, this is very true. But unlike other primary states where he pulled out all of the stops (and BTW, he spent $1.4M in cable advertising in Florida which was against the agreed upon rules as well) Floridians were able to judge the candidates in what might be the ONLY objective and fair way: by paying attention to what they said in debate and their voting records. Then, 1.7 Million of them went to the polls and voted overwhelmingly for Clinton.
    As for rules, the DNC did not *have* to impose the harshly punitive rules on Florida. It had a choice and could have been much more lenient considering that Florida did not jump ahead voluntarily. But the DNC decided to impose the harshest penalty possible, alienating a big, important swing state that they absolutely need to win. Now, the exercise for YOU is to determine why Dean, Brazile, et al would do such a thing. And remember, they imposed this penalty back in September 2007 when there were more candidates in the race including 2 others who were possible challengers to Clinton. And also remember that the only remedy that the DNC offered in lieu of seating the delegates was a caucus with many, many fewer caucus sites than Florida needed.
    Just sit and think about that for a minute here. Because Florida has a right to be very angry at the way things turned out for it. You can cite the rules from now until doomsday but no one should be forced to play with loaded dice. And especially not Florida.
    If I were Obama, I’d seat the delegates. Otherwise, he will lose Florida twice. And the second time might be even worse for him, given how he has stirred up their feelings on the matter.

  71. Having lived all over the world and having been born in Australia, and having been a democrat all my life, I am truly shocked by the blatant and vicious sexism displayed by the DNC, against Hillary Clinton and the obvious manipulation of the media and the right to vote in Florida by an anti-woman bunch of stupid old men. I came to this country in 1967 and have never seen a country in the world sink so low. Is Obama afraid of the Jewish vote there for some reason in Forida? HOW CAN AMERICA STOOP SO LOW!

  72. chris: We’re no different than any other country. We’re full of human beings who react to media provocations in a typical fashion. What’s nuts to me is that I was a Kossack since 2004 and I never saw the disintegration of DailyKos coming. It and other blogs were supposed to be a firebreak against this kind of thing. But they’ve joined in. That part is truly disheartening. It seems like the faithful get chased from place to place. But we are still out here. There are a lot of us. And if Hillary is the nominee, I believe we will be unified by November.
    But yes, we have lost our collective minds right at the moment.

  73. During Senator Obama’s first 8 eight months of elected service he sponsored over 820 bills. My goodness he was busy. Assuming he actually worked everyday, your talking on average of sponsoring 3.5 bills per day. Quite an extensive amount of work. I guess the questions becomes, what exactly does sponsoring a bill involve?

  74. A 50-50 split anywhere is an affront to democracy. The DNC should not have the right to disenfranchise the voters of any state. A fair expression of the vote in Michigan is to give Obama 1/2 the uncommitted vote.

  75. in response to riverdaughter:

    well yes, any presidential candidate is a well-known politician. but you simply cannot deny that clinton is a more well-known name than obama (uneducated latino voters who supported clinton in both florida and california, when asked in surveys why they voted for clinton, said that it was because they hadn’t heard of Obama before)….

    secondly, obama spent $1.4 million on NATIONAL tv ads, there can be a debate over whether or not that constitutes campaigning (as can be said of Clinton’s florida “fundraisers”), but your statement implies that Obama was spending all of that money on florida alone.

    how would florida have been playing with loaded dice if they had simply moved their primary to super tuesday? that was within the rules, and only a week later. Floridians should be angry at the idiots in Florida’s democratic leadership who blatantly disregarded the DNC’s rules.

    there does need to be a way to keep states from moving up their primaries, because otherwise states will continue to try to move their primaries ahead of each other to gain national influence.

    even if florida’s delegates are seated, seating michigan’s delegates would be totally unfair because obama wasnt even on the ballot!!

  76. Interesting site. I’ll be back for at least the music tips and fine writing, though some of the logic applied here escapes me. (In the most important election ever after the worst administration ever why would someone choose not to vote for one of the several best Democratic candidates ever if their also very good candidate lost a well run primary campaign during trying times? I could go on with several other surprising comments above and about this site but time is short.)

    I was glad my state party tried to gain an early primary date despite the certainty of the DNC’s penalties. After the last several disastrous elections, especially FL in 2000 and OH in 2004 I thought it was time for all concerned citizens to try anything that might fix the process. A midwestern industrial state should be an early test. NV, SC, NH, IA– fine, but let’s broaden the tests in the early stages when in most years it matters most. Lots of states can make a case and the ones that are early did it mainly by making their case first.

    The DNC did their job. I’m fine with that and the DNC, along with the two campaigns and state parites, are right to try and find some way to seat the delegations. There is no perfect solution, no way it will get done without being unfair to somebody– to either one of the campaigns, voters in FL and MI or other states, and probably in some way all parties involved. Even more important is how any contrived or trimmed legalisms are perceived, especially among independent voters. Whatever happens with those delegations it better not look like an attempt to subvert the will of the majority of the voters across the country.

    I have to say, though I wish to build bridges, that I did not appreciate Clinton doing fundraisers in FL the week before their primary and loudly proclaiming during that same week that the FL delegates should be seated. That was poor form, much worse than Obama running national ads that appeared on FL stations (if you can really complain about that.)

    I favor Obama. He’s drawing new people into the process. And, he has a lot of fine qualities needed in a president most of which are shared by Clinton. I’d be satisfied letting Michigan’s state convention apportion the delegates based on the “illegal” primary. It would almost certainly end up 55% Clinton and the rest Obama. We knew our options. I think in a revote he’d gain ground and the polls agree. And, the FL solution can be any number of things. But, in every scenario the math still favors Obama and it is absurd to ignore it. Revotes just delay til June the time when the infighting stops and the GOP gets the full brunt of our righteous outrage.

    Try and drop the Obamabot insult. Why do that? I feel the same way about Hillbot, but rarely see it, and I spend most of my (apparently) on sites more pro-Obama.

  77. dennisS: Thank you for dropping by. We realize you have a choice of blogs on which to register your opinion. We encourage you to exercise that choice.
    Many of the commenters here have had enough of the “he brings in new voters” schtick, as if the old voters don’t matter anymore. In fact, we’ve heard quite enough of the Obama campaign in general and wish to be allowed to express ourselves without arrogant, cocky and aggressive commentary from hard core Obama believers. I prefer to use the term “Obamaphile” but if my friends prefer Obamabot, I won’t stop them. They’re angry with you guys right now and want to be left alone to discuss the race as we see it without interference.
    If you can’t play nicely, please consider another blog. We won’t be insulted if you take your ball and go elsewhere. Really.

  78. Wow. You don’t think I was nice enough? Arrogant? Cocky? Aggressive? Be careful you don’t paint yourself a corner too small.

  79. dennisS: When a newcomer comes onto our site and tells us to stop using certain terms, calls us illogical for not wanting to be pressured into voting for who we think is the least desirable candidate, and implies that the young and pretentious will not stand for the rest of us overturning their overwhelming turnout in Idaho and Utah, then yes, I think that is arrogant, cocky and aggressive.
    As for painting myself into a corner, how much more in a corner can I go? I used to be a recommended diarist at DailyKos. Now, I run my own blog in the hinterlands. The worst has been done. And yet, somehow, I and my little band of Conflucians have managed to survive to the point where we become a blip on YOUR radar. Of all the blogs in all of the web, you have to walk into mine. How did *that* happen? I didn’t leave many breadcrumbs behind. Ohhh, I get it, you came here from a site that recommended me. So, either there is a contingent of the political blogosphere that thinks like I do or there is a contingent that is annoyed that my voice is getting loud again.
    Really, dennisS, I don’t want to spend more time with you. You can stay if you want an alternative point of view but if the others start complaining that you are harshing their mellow, you’re outta here.

  80. A new and different kind of mellow.

    Hillary was *my* least desirable of the Dem candidates.

    (Republicans haven’t gotten my consideration since John Anderson, a mistake I regret. Yep, I’m one of the old ones you think Obama is ignoring.)

    Yet, I like Clinton a lot and I don’t see any need to diminish her accomplishments or denigrate Idaho voters et al. I’m proud of the way both candidates have turned out record numbers and though you apparently disagree I see many of Obama’s supporters being the ones we need to create a new progressive coalition that will have the strength in numbers to overwhelm Republican obstruction. There’s a compelling case to be made (if you want) that the new ones won’t be there this fall, but I bet they will and partly because he is a very good politician; one of the best IMHO in my 50+ years. (With concurrence from the likes of Ted Kennedy other notable Democrats.)

    I asked rather nicely to refrain from name-calling. Whatever, it’s not that big a deal. I tend to ignore it, but everything else said in the same post gets tossed too.

    In the general I hope you’re with the Democrats whichever candidate wins the nomination. I reiterate it would be incredibly illogical for someone who supports Hillary to choose McCain over Obama, or to make the mistake I made when I pulled the lever for Anderson. Times are worse now, but even then not voting for Carter was illogical. I wish I had seen it when it mattered.

    FYI, DeLong>Tapped>riverdaughter

    I feel like I’ve crashed a private party. I’ll leave you be.

  81. DennisS: Like I said, I don’t have objections to your sticking around. Just try to keep in mind that the commenters here have been worked over pretty hard in the past 9 months and they’re really not interested in the fact that the Obama world thinks they are irrelevant. As for voting for John McCain, I will not vote for any Republican this year, of that you can be sure. But unless the party wants to have a replay of 2000, it had better stop ramming Obama down our throats and acting like we’ll just lay back and take it in the fall. Nobody here cares much for the prospect of being f^&*ed over in the fall and we will make sure Dean, Pelosi and Kennedy get the message.
    Now, if you want to stay, great! We like all kinds. Just don’t insult us.

  82. I knew my vote would not count so I voted in the GOP primary. I am disenfranchised either way because I cannot vote now even in a revote. Will they let me vote in both now? Will I get to have vote that count in both? OOOH goody.

    Nothing’s perfect in an election that does not count. and everyone knows it going in..even a revote screws with reality.


  83. In MI the exit polls showed that at least 20% of Clinton’s voters said they would have voted for Obama

    Florida is altogether different but Hillary might not even win MI so in reality 50/50 there is probably reasonable at least.

    Sure a revote might be better maybe one or two delegates different. Not exactly game changing but important for the party to treat these voters in these important states better.

    While the delegates in MI will split roughly 50/50 anyway with a vote, it’s really all about MI superdelegates not the pledged total which will be a wash or a small victory for either.

    Certainly too much time was wasted trying to seat the result of the FL and MI primary which was never going to happen. Now you have a situation that legitimately is not the responsibility of the candidates but the states and the DNC to resolve.

    A big mess I agree and unfair to the voters.

    The more I learn about delegates though the more I realize the DEM party is nuts. They award more delegates to states willing to go late in the process. NUts. This inflates things in ways that are not related to a democratic process at all.

    As bad as caucuses are at least they are not inflated by the calendar also. MOstly primaries here on.

    Puerto Rico has 55 delegates and cannot impact the electoral system. also Nuts.

    PR gets about one third of PA …Nuts

  84. Thanks for this post and the information, riverdaughter. I just wrote this to McNamara:

    Dear Mr. McNamara,
    I have been a committed Democrat for my entire life as a voter (over 20 years) and even before. Rumors are spreading that the Party is proposing a plan to seat MI delegates but split them 50/50 and Florida’s as reflected in the actual voting but with each given only half a vote. Respectfully, I have to say this seems unjust and unwise, especially with regard to Florida. Not only were both Senator Obama and Senator Clinton on the ballot in Florida, but Florida, whose voters were so shabbily treated in the Gore-Bush race, is not a state where the Democratic party should add insult to injury. As for Michigan, Senator Obama did choose to remove his name from the ballot, and I fail to see why he should benefit from this.

    I prefer Senator Clinton to Senator Obama as the nominee, but my views about this matter stem from background as a law professor and political philosopher. I have been told by the DNC that “rules are rules” etc., but a) the Party made exceptions for other states and b) it is a fundamental principle of justice that if process produces seriously unfair outcomes – such as disenfranchising, even partially, the millions of people who voted in the MI and FL primaries – then equity calls for overriding process.

    I bet you are receiving many emails more filled with outrage than this one sounds. But please do not underestimate my passion about this issue. As a resident of DC, I am taxed without representation and I take the issue of disenfranchisement extremely seriously.

    Yours truly,

  85. […] successfully blocking re-votes in Michigan and Florida, Obama is now pushing for a 50/50 split. What exactly is the difference in a 50/50 split and a 0/0 split? Either way spells […]

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