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OK, one more time: Hillary won the debate


She wins all of her debates against Obama. It is only the media punditocracy that sets the bar for her so damn high that if she doesn’t clear 454 ft with her pole vaulting, it looks like a loss. She routinely clears 25 ft to Obama’s 16. But this does not indicate the level of superhuman abilities that we require from her. Anything less than 454 is like so much “So what have you done for me lately?”

Well, the debates are over and it is now for the voters of Texas and Ohio to decide. Do they need her to be superhuman and perfect or is excellent good enough? And are they going to buy the rambling, Shatner-like delivery of Obama, along with adolescent expressions of impatience and surprised disbelief as sufficient for the highest nation in the land or will they send him back to school for 4 years?

I guess we’ll see if the media standards are the ones that the rest of the country feels are fair. One thing for sure, though. Russert’s and William’s behavior last night didn’t make their case that we should adopt their standards as our own. Classy people don’t act like that. People with a vendetta do and we’ve watched enough crime drama since the advent of TV to know what that looks like.

18 Responses

  1. I don’t think we’ve talked enough about how much Obama is outspending her. I’ve been seeing these stories for weeks; it’s insane. From this factor alone the stakes are so high against her.


  2. Money isn’t everything or else Mitt Romney would be the Republican nominee right now. Hang in there everyone!

  3. Hey riverdaughter, you liked…the..Shatner comparison!

    The punditocracy seems to be declaring once again that “it was a tie, therefore win for Obama.” I thought HRC was dazzling last night. But the punditocracy has taken umbrage at her suggestion that they are unfair to her (even though Obama regularly whines about how mean HRC is), so now they are pounding on her even more.

    There was even a rumor on the Great Orange Daily Obama that HRC is withdrawing from the race on Friday. As you can imagine, this has caused a lot of excitement.

  4. Personally, no matter what the vote in Texas and Ohio, I hope Hillary takes it all the way to the convention. I have a really sneaking suspicion that something is going to come out and totally slam Obama out of the race before November. Perhaps the Rezko trial. Or the Iraqi businessman. But I can’t help but feel the invisible hand of Rove behind his candidacy right from the start. That could be where so much of the money is flowing from as well.

  5. 7.8 million people viewed the debate last night.


    I hope women were angered at the hatchet job Russert and Williams tried to do.

  6. Redstar: I’ve already done the money analysis. Obama needs to spend $3 to every dollar Hillary spend just to stay even.

  7. Folks you are really living in a delusion. To people who are less biased than thou, Hillary came off looking angry, petty, self-pitying and very non-presidential. Furthermore, she came off looking very wishy-washy in many statements, particularly regarding her stands on NAFTA.

    None of this has anything to do with Obama — Hillary lost even with no one else on the stage. Add Obama in, and she ends up looking that much worse.

    Hillary has equal or slightly better mastery of policy details than Obama in a 1:1 debate, but far, far less character and certainly worse judgement (or at least judgement clouded by political ambition).

    In any case, I was shocked by how out of touch the statements on this blog are. Sometimes you have to step outside of yourself, your predilections, your biases, and try to look at things from the position of others. Otherwise you’re not much diff the the hacks on the right…

  8. If Dems have skipped debates of FoxNews because they are biased against us, HRC is well within her rights to skip MessNBC debates. These (White) Men are not only biased against her, but they want to destroy her and the longer she survives the angrier they get.

    Has Tim Russert ever read any candidate’s economic program and waived it in front of him?

    Has he ever tried to ambush a candidate with the name of a political figure?

    Has he ever asked a candidate to release his tax return within days?

    I could go on an on but I want to send you back to the Philadelphia debate on 10/30/07, the day Tim Russert, Brian Williams and the whole MessNBC gang decided to change the trajectory of this campaign.

    Because Hillary refuses to drink poison and die, they tried to finish her off yesterday and bragged about it afterwards.

    Bob Somerby over at dailyhowler.com has been writing about the trashing of HRC throughout this campaign and the complicity of major “progressive” blogs.

    Here is how he starts today’s pos:

    “OMIGOD—THEY DID IT AGAIN: Let’s hope last night is the very last time. Let’s hope the Democratic Party never lets NBC run another debate.

    In a word, the first half hour of last night’s debate was stunning. To understand why, let’s think back to October 30, when Tim Russert and his trophy wife, Brian Williams, hosted an earlier Dem debate.”

    This is the way Al gore was treated all along. I had the hope that this time, ALL libs would scream “bloody murder” if the media ever tried it again with one of our own.

    Unfortunately, it’s ok if it’s Hillary Clinton, she deserves it, she’e eeeeevil.

  9. Can someone clarify something for me? Is this the part of script where we all fall down and worship Obamamessiah?

  10. The thing that was most stunning about the first half hour of the debate, was that Hillary took control of it, made it about healthcare, did a great job of explaining why her proposal is better, and then Williams cuts it off by saying, “Well we’ve had 16 straight minutes of healthcare, let’s move on to other issues” — at which point they go back to the crap.

    And then in the post-debate “analysis,” Tweety basically complains that they spent so much time talking about how to get to universal healthcare, because we don’t have a plan now, so why are they talking “around the edges” about tiny differences in their proposals.

    Aside from Iraq, healthcare is probably the number 1 issue to many many voters in this country. And Williams and Tweety didn’t think it was worth even 16 minutes in a 90 minute debate.

    Of course, part of the reason they didn’t want to spend that much time on it was that, as I said above, Hillary was killing Obama on the issue. Had to stop THAT.

  11. Bubba: I approved your comment because I think the rest of us have to see it. It’s very funny. No doubt you listened to the post debate commentary. You must have missed Russert’s enraged red face when Hillary took control of the debate and he couldn’t land a hit on her. You probably were out of the room when she made Obama eat his comments about Farrakhan. Fortunately, there were other people besides you who actually *watched* the debate and saw it as we did. Some of them are Republicans, some work for major newpapers, some are just average everyday wingnut women who hang out at The Corner on the National Review.
    So, thanks for playing but if you’re not going to pay attention, you really need to stick to the blogs with the short bus.

  12. Life lessons from BubbaGump.

    I shall endeavor hereafter to step outside of myself, be less biased, and look at the positions of others.

    BubbaGump: If I go to an Obamamessiah rally, is it appropriate to genuflect or prostrate myself when he comes into the arena? I really don’t want to make a fool of myself.

  13. DCD: I believe you have to jump to the left and then step to the right, or something like that.

  14. Riverdaughter,

    Couple of corrections to your answe to Bubba are in order. There were some reasonable women at the corner, and some republicans are screaming (article I linked to yesterday.)

    No, the worst, shittiest part of the equation has been Dailykos and TPM, and their minions on blogs. Arianna is just a careerist, and have a site that perfectly matches Obama rallies. Some Paris Hilton, some Hillary bashing, and empty rhetoics for those with no memories of Arianna’s past.

    Watch for the GE. Watch for Drudge and Rush to eat democrats’ lunch every day, and hold their feet to fire. You think Obama will get away with the same press love, even if the press was willing? Dream on.

  15. The meaning of “I get asked the first question all the time.”

    Everyone has interpreted this as Hillary meaning the first question in the debate. She would be, of course, right. The first question will set the tone, and will let the second person to catch their breath, gather their breath and judge the tone of the debate.

    But a much larger problem exist and the Putin successor completely captures it.

    Hillary is asked not only the gotcha question, but the difficult questions, and she is asked first many, many times. Note the last time Obama was asked a real question in the youtube debate, he put his foot in his mouth in a big way, and Hillary jumped on it.

    When she is asked the question first (unless it’s the Halloween costume), she answers it completely. Then, the opponent is given lots of time, and then he can choose to 1) jump on it, 2) piggyback on it, 3) use the time to think of a very good or catchy answer.

    Remember, when Tavis was holding the debate (one of the very few good ones), he asked the question about HIV-AIDS. Remember, Hillary had lots of time, and she basically agreed with it, and added a line to it that brought the house down?

  16. ghost2: I heard Dan Abrams make this point tonight. It’s really bad to get the question first because you don’t have the chance to give the mind blowing response.
    Now, here’s the interesting thing about this dilemma: Obama gets to go second but he NEVER gives the response that takes her out. Never. As Tweety says, he “wins” on field goals. (Actually, he never wins) But the point is he is given every opportunity to knock her out with a perfectly timed “Senator you’re no Jack Kennedy” and he is incapable of doing it.
    To be honest, neither one of them does snark very well. She should have trained with an expert (I can be bought. Very reasonably. Euros only please) The problem is that she overthinks the snappy comeback and it comes off flat and forced. It would be much better to revel in the absurdity of the whole thing. Like, the “I’m hurt, but I’ll try to go on.” That was brilliant. She should have critiqued the absurdity of last night’s debate honestly. There is a way to deliver snark politely.
    Of course, she *has* to go first.

  17. I think that honestly, she is a bit tense.

    When she is on, she is on. Remember the Cheney and diplomacy comment?? That was pure gold.

    quoting from memory (ha ha): we have an administration that doesn’t believe in diplomacy. Every so often Condi Rice goes somewhere and makes a speech. Occasionally, they even send Dick Cheney. That’s hardly diplomatic in my view.

  18. Other point: even the best comedian will have a hell of a time in front of a very hostile audience. That’s what she has had since October. First, the twin asses (Russert and Williams) have that aweful debate, and then campaigns started packing the audience on top of it. She can deliver the best line, and the moderators will have the look “ha”. It’s “Heathers” all over again. They don’t consider her “cool” no matter what she does.

    I really hope she wins. Then she can say, “Tim dear, there is a new sheriff in town.”

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