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Fix the Michigan and Florida double standard

Turkana at The Left Coaster has a good post up today about the way that Florida and Michigan are getting the shaft. And let’s make no mistake about this: if they were included in the totals, Clinton wouldn’t look like she’s on the ropes right now and the media would have been forced to cover Florida as a genuine win- and a big one- for Hillary. Instead, they barely mentioned it while they overhyped Obama’s win in South Carolina.

What the absence of MI and FL does is nullify the votes of those of us in the Big D states who voted on SuperTuesday. Our votes combined with MI and FL should have given Hillary more of a boost but they seem to be dangled out there like they don’t count and without their critical mass, we are in virtual dead heat with no one getting a decisive lead and with one candidate benefitting from a deceptive media narrative.

Now, I think maybe Michigan should hold its primary again. It’s only fair since Obama and Edwards were not on the ballot. If it’s too expensive to do a primary and caucuses are *clearly* out of the question because the rabid Obamaphiles are the ones who show up to them and there is no secret ballot, why not have a primary by mail like Oregon has for their general elections? How hard would that be? It takes virtually no time to send out a ballot fo everyone registered and give them until *name a date* to send the sucker back. It’s quick, it’s private and it’s cheap compared to setting up voting precincts and calibrating voting machines. Before you know it, Michigan could seat some valid delegates. No muss, no fuss.

Florida on the other hand, *did* feature multiple candidates on its ballot and more than a million voters turned out to vote. I think Florida’s primary must be taken seriously. In fact, the voters did it without much campaigning on any candidate’s part which, to me, is more important. Except for the cable ad buys that Obama’s camp did and the few fundraising events by Clinton, the voter’s were relatively untainted and could evaluate the candidates based on nationally televised debates. It sounds legit. What good would be served by doing it all over except that due to the momentum that Obama has in the past week or so, the numbers would change in his favor?

Then there’s this: it turns out that South Carolina, NH and Iowa all violate the stated DNC primary timing rules, but they are let off the hook because of tradition. Only Michigan and Florida are punished. From a Left Coaster thread, a commenter notes:

Rule 11.A specifically set the date for the primaries & caucuses for those three states as ,“no earlier than 22 days before the first Tuesday in February” (Iowa), “no earlier than 14 days before the first Tuesday in February” (New Hampshire), and “no earlier than 7 days before the first Tuesday in February” (South Carolina).Iowa held their caucuses on January 3rd. That’s more than 22 days before the first Tuesday in February. New Hampshire held their primary on January 8th. That’s more than 17 days before the first Tuesday in February. And South Carolina held their primary on January 26th. That’s more than 7 days before the first Tuesday in February.

The fact is that, using your words, “the rules of the game” were changed to continue to give Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina preferential treatment in the Democratic Party’s presidential nomination process. Florida, Iowa, Michigan, New Hampshire, and South Carolina, all violated Rule 11.A., but only Florida and Michigan were punished for it.If you’re going to enforce the rules, then the rules need to be applied equally and fairly. They weren’t, and as far as I’m concerned, the 2008 Delegate Selection Rules for the Democratic National Convention aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on.

Now, I’m not the kind of person who approves of changing the rules of the game while in progress, but when there are three states that started out with a handicap and they are relatively small states, why should they have the power to nullify the votes of more than a million voters from two other states? In fact, I don’t think the number of voters of IA, NH and SC combined exceed the number of primary voters in Florida alone. It looks like we are *still* being held hostage by the same stupid little states as before. IA and SC have made the decision for us in spite of SuperTuesday and more than a million disenfranchised voters in 2 states.

Howard better fix this fast because I am losing my patience. My state’s vote in NJ had better carry some weight and if Florida isn’t included, it most likely won’t.

21 Responses

  1. Goldberry,

    Please don’t advocate a re-do in either Michigan or Florida.

    Look, that’s the way Obama, Edwards, Richardson, and everyone else played their hand in Michigan. Clinton was the frontrunner. They put her on defensive to pander to IA and NH. Who saying that staying on the ballot in Michigan didn’t cost her Iowa??

    Plus, Obama campaign benefitted hugely from this. Because, the only viable name on Michigan ballot was Clinton, the media didn’t cover it at all. Can you imagine what three consecutive wins in NH, MI, and NV would have done for her? Then throw in Florida, and she would have great momentum, beauty contest or not.

    Hillary got no bounce from Michigan, and no bounce from Florida. Given the composition of those states, if they had been on February 5th, she would have still been the favorite. She didn’t get that either.

    Obama campaign played Michigan very well. No, sorry, ABSOLUTELY not. They can’t have a re-do. Next time, someone else throws a tantrum and takes their name off the ballot, we’re going to have a rematch?

    Plus, the other day, I read about turnout. The turnout in caucuses has been absolutely abysmal. Every primary state so far has had higher turnout than a caucas. Someone crunched the numbers vs. Kerry votes in 2004, and arrived at 6% in Washington state vs. about 26% in Michigan. And the one who has to re-do is Michigan?

    The only two caucas states that had more turnouts than Michigan were Iowa (I forgot the other, will try to find the link), and that was by a hair.

    In summary, Michigan and Florida DID get punished. No candidate visits. No media exposure. No ads. No campaign offices in either state. No bounce. No momentum.

    Remember, republicans got to campaign and spend money there. Hate to say that, but they had a far better solution. Clear from the beginning.

    MICHIGAN and FLORIDA delegates must be seated. No ifs and buts.

    I read this on mydd, here is the link:
    http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/11/144234/675

    The punishment for each violator was to strip them to superdelegates and HALF the pledged delegates. Instead, IA, NH, SC got no punishment, and MI and FL got double the punishment!!

  2. Another point:

    If Democrats had stuck to their rules and like republicans had stripped Michigan and Florida of half their delegates, then:

    -Candidates would have campaigned there.
    -HIllary would have gotten huge boost, both from bounce and momentum and in her delegate count.

    Now, it’s too late for the half solution. Since they have been punished, and have lost candidate face time, money spent in the states, the ability to affect the
    narrative and provide momentum …. they should have their delegates FULLY seated.

  3. My third point:

    I think all these ‘yelling and shouting’ on superdelegates from Obama camp has been a nice play via the surrogates to:
    1- detract attention from Michigan and Florida delegate counts coming out (worked, BTW)
    2- signal that if MI and FL are seated (and they would be) some other rules should be re-written to benefit them.

    My last point: Whoever decided to strip MI and FL of all their delegates (as opposed to half which was in the rules) should get fired. This is a public relations nightmare. And I think there are a lot of indications to think whoever did that were from anti-Hillary forces.

  4. I definitely agree that this mess with MI and FL needs to be sorted out, NOW. One of the overlooked factors is that as ghost2 mentioned, Hillary has been cheated of a lot of momentum and air time from this fiasco that she certainly deserved. I don’t agree with you that MI should be redone. If you go back and look what happened, both Obama and Edwards took their names off the ballot to give them political advantage with the people of IA. Why should they be rewarded for that? Presumably, they already have been, since they won the first 2 slots in Iowa’s caucus. Hillary left her name on the ballot in spite of the pressure not to. She should be rewarded for it, not once again made to pay.

  5. Now that I think about this more, I seriously think Florida has serious grounds for suing the DNC.

    If I have this right, they didn’t move their date until after NH, IA, and SC did. Then they got smacked way more than the rules said they should (stripped of all delegates instead of half, and stripped of campaigning time and money), and the other states didn’t get punished.

  6. Here is the link on caucus and primary participation:

    http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/11/144249/546

  7. crazy stuff. gives me a headache.

    I hope HRC is just keeping going knowing so many solid people are behind her. The next one will be exciting and in her favor. I thought her WI ad was great.

    Ghost2 you have wonderful things to say – have you ever thought to have your own blog? I’d visit., Not to take away from this one, of course.

  8. You know, I’ve thought a lot about the nomination today and there is a part of me that is okay with Obama winning only because this madness won’t end until he flat out loses to the GOP machine. I think the Obamabots are so f-ing crazy that they are going to be pissed off if Hillary wins. Obama needs to be vetted and exposed and if Hillary can’t do it without being attacked then I want the Republicans to do the job. I’m tired of this man being looked at like the messiah when he’s just a mediocre politicians with a good speech writer. At this point it would give me more pleasure to see Obama getting ripped apart by the Republicans. Maybe Hillary will do more for society if she wasn’t being continually attacked. Kinda like Al Gore after losing the election. The presidency isn’t everything. Let Dean screw up the Democratic Party and let Obama screw up his job in the White House so people will start seeing him for who he is. I feel bad for Hillary. I just want this shit to end soon.

  9. Judith,

    Thanks a lot for your good thought. I think I am a far better commenter (can’t spell either, not good) than blogger. It’s just that some posts like Goldberry’s make my thought flowing and I start typing. But if I were to come up with a post, I would end up with absolutely boring material.

    I also think in blog world, commenting is as important as blogging. Sure, sometimes I feel that I have a conversation with myself. But I have absolute trust in goldberry and her marvelous writing skills and visitors shall come. Comments are the spice in a blog, and they keep it kicking!

  10. Ghost2 – my comment was meant only in the most positive way. I have been thinking of having one myself. 🙂 but I dont come form the Kos world and have little patience. I think one has to be somehwat patient,. And I dont think anyone would visit so maybe I will have my own echo chamber. Rather than cat blogging Friday I will have shoe bloggin saturday. What do you think?

    Anyway, I am sure your comments are as welcome to this blog as any other lucky enough to have you comment.

    cheers! Time for pizza now…..

  11. Judith, I did take your comment as a great compliment. Thanks.

  12. Judith: I have made an offer to ghost2. I’d love to have her/him as a co-blogger. My offer still stands.

  13. oh, that is great! I wonder if I saw it, thought it was a good idea and then it stuck one of my 7 short term memory slots. hmmm….

    🙂

  14. It’s not fair. They took their names off the ballot. Do you think if Hillary had taken her name off the ballot, Obama would ever allow for a do-over?

  15. m: I think she should encourage MI to go with a mail in primary with all names on the ballot in exchange for getting FL seated. No, I don’t think Obama would be fair if the shoe was on the other foot. And I can’t help but be really disgusted at the favoritism that Dean is showing Obama. He’s not just disenfranchising Florida. He’s disenfranchising all of us in the Big D states who voted for Hillary on SuperTuesday and need Florida’s votes. That’s the thing that really ticks me off. Turnout in the primary states was huge but we are letting states like Washington and Kansas with their much smaller numbers override us because Florida can’t seat delegates?!?! What kind of messed up shit is that?
    Howard really needs to be fired. The process has been highjecked by the Deaniacs who couldn’t swing it in 2004.

  16. Yeah, Dean is just another Hillary Hater. But, I respectfully disagree about MI. No do-overs in politics. He took his name on the ballot. There was a very active campaign for undecided as a sub for Obama. They even ran ad’s. Hillary didn’t do anything but keep her name on the ballot. I could see an argument for pledging some of the undecided’s to Obama, but that’s it.

  17. You know, this is just shameless. Dean is just trying to make sure Obama leads in delegates. I am so upset I ever supported him as head of the DNC. What a phoney. People powered politics as long as they are powered for Obama. What a sham!

  18. What is more outrageous is that Julian Bond of the NAACP is now being attacked by Obama supporters because he has written a letter to the DNC asking them to seat the MI & FL delegates. Suddenly he is a race traitor and a sellout because he is going against what the Obama campaign wants to do. It is absolutely disgusting how anyone who goes against Obama even when it is to do the right thing is somehow a racist or a race traitor. Good for Mr. Bond and I hope he doesn’t lose his job at the NAACP for speaking out for voters.

  19. a note from an Obama supporter: you throw the game away when you argue that somehow having her name on the ballot in MI hurt Clinton. i mean, we can all make stuff up but if you want anyone to take your arguments about FL seriously you have to stop that kind of silly stuff.

  20. Sparky: I am not of the opinion that MI helped or hurt Clinton. It’s moot because the voters didn’t have much of a choice. Who knows how they would have voted? It’s a missing data point. Sort of like Obama can claim he has all of the good judgment in the world but he wasn’t required to vote on the IWR. It too is a missing data point to which I can not assign a value. And given Obama’s practice of avoiding tricky political votes, he doesn’t strike me as the kink who would boldly stand up and vote NO. But that’s JMHO. Apparently, there are a lot of us who are on the same wavelength about Obama’s boldness and judgment, but I digress.
    I think a mail-in primary for MI is a reasonable suggestion. Definitely let MI do it over. Of course, Florida delegates have to be acknowledged first or no do-over for Michigan. And definitely no caucuses.

  21. Sparky: I am not of the opinion that MI helped or hurt Clinton. It’s moot because the voters didn’t have much of a choice. Who knows how they would have voted? It’s a missing data point. Sort of like Obama can claim he has all of the good judgment in the world but he wasn’t required to vote on the IWR. It too is a missing data point to which I can not assign a value. And given Obama’s practice of avoiding tricky political votes, he doesn’t strike me as the kind of person who would boldly stand up and vote NO. But that’s JMHO. Apparently, there are a lot of us who are on the same wavelength about Obama’s boldness and judgment, but I digress.
    I think a mail-in primary for MI is a reasonable suggestion. Definitely let MI do it over. Of course, Florida delegates have to be acknowledged first or no do-over for Michigan. And definitely no caucuses.

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