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Can we send a deep dish pizza to the Chicago teachers?

HONK!

They appear to be going on strike.  Oh, and Rahm Emannuel has continued to demonstrate his own particular brand of respect for working people, bullying and mean and nasssssty.  I hope the Chicago teachers have been paying attention to the way he treated Occupy.

So, the average teacher’s salary in Chicago is $76,000/year, which, to me, sounds fair for living in a big city like Chicago.  Rent ain’t cheap (about $2000/month in a decent neighborhood) and if you don’t want to commute hours and hours a day to work, you need to live pretty close to your school.  At that salary, your taxes are getting toward the hefty side.  But here’s the statistic that I found most shocking:

The school system, which employs about 25,000 teachers, announced contingency plans in the event of a strike, including a program to open 144 of its 675 schools with half-days of activities supervised by people other than unionized teachers. Officials said that program would also include meals — no small concern since 84 percent of the city’s public school students qualify for the free and reduced meals program.

WTF?  84% of Chicago’s public school children live at or below the poverty line and qualify for the subsidized school lunch program??  That’s fricking outrageous.  What is Rahm Emanuel doing about that?  Is he working with businesses and corporations in Chicago to make them pay a living wage?  Jesus Christ on a Cracker, this is just beyond derelict.  I realize that he’s only been mayor for a year but in that year, he seems to have spent more time suppressing the Peasants’ Revolts than actually working for them.

Maybe he’s just following Obama’s example.  As I recall, he sucked as a state rep for his little corner of Chicago.

Well, now is the time for both men to show their quality.  Time to step up and demand fair working wages for all of Chicago.  At this point, the teachers of Chicago are subsidizing those lunches with their substantial taxes.  It’s time for the wealthy to stop getting away with dumping all responsibility on the backs of the 99% who they are underpaying.

What say you, Rahm?  Be nice now.

Here is a link to the Chicago Teachers’ Union.  So far, they seem to have the support of working people in Chicago.  Now, they just need to hang in there.  I’m guessing they’re going to need more than pizzas to man the baricades and hold out longer than Rahm.

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76 Responses

  1. NBC had this story today:

    Jim Vavrek has experienced a lot of firsts in the last few years, and that has not been a good thing.
    There was the first time he had his water shut off because he couldn’t pay the bill, and the first time he looked into applying for food stamps because he didn’t know how he could afford to eat.
    And there was the first time he realized that despite insurance coverage, he still owed thousands of dollars from his late wife’s short fight with cancer – bills he could not afford to pay.
    “It’s amazing how fast everything happens,” Vavrek, 50, mused recently, as he drove from his job in New Brunswick, N.J., to his home in Point Pleasant, N.J.
    Advertise | AdChoices

    The commute was about to become a memory – Vavrek had just learned that he was going to lose the $13-an-hour contract job he’d landed about a year and a half ago. It had been a big financial step down from when he made $70,000, plus a bonus, several years ago, but at least it was a paycheck.
    The recession and weak recovery of the past five years have forced many Americans to take a financial step backward, from the security of a middle class life to the struggles of living paycheck to paycheck or among the working poor. For many, a series of economic blows – a job loss, pay cut, divorce, health care bill or unexpected emergency – has played a role in pushing them down the economic ladder.

    (snip)

    Median household net worth plunged nearly 39 percent over those three years, according to the Federal Reserve’s latest data. A big factor likely was tumbling home values.
    Meanwhile, poverty increased. About 46.2 million Americans, or 15.1 percent of the population, were living in poverty in 2010 as determined by the Census Bureau, an increase of 2.6 percentage points from 2007. That data also will be updated this week.
    The changes have meant that more people have had to turn to government aid. About 44.7 million people participated in the SNAP program, commonly referred to as food stamps, last year, up from 26.3 million in 2007.

    Some recovery.

    • Um, the reason why household worth has dropped 39% has nothing to do with house prices which are on paper anyway until you have to sell. It’s because like this guy, he’s gone from about $77,000/year to $27,000/year without bennies. So, in this guy’s case, it’s a 65% drop in income. How is this not cruel?

      • I think that’s why I’m posting this?

        • No, I got that part. It’s just a general question.
          Strawberry buttermilk smoothie
          ***********************************
          1 cup frozen strawberries
          1 cup yogurt, plain or fruited(apricot for me)
          1 cup buttermilk
          1 cup ice

          Blend until smooth. It will be really thick.
          Not too sweet. In fact, hardly sweet at all but it does have a nice tang. Low in calories.

  2. Here are some relevant posts from one of Corey Robin’s threads on the strike:

    Doug Henwood Also, isn’t Rahm trying to increase the school day by 20%? A 16% raise over 4 years – probably cut in half by inflation – hardly compensates.

    Doug Henwood According to the BLS, the average middle & elementary school teacher in Chicago metro area makes $55,000-60,000; secondary, $67,000. ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/oes/oesm11ma.zip

    Aaron Bady Also, see this, over at “liberal blogger” Ezra Klein’s place: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/10/how-teacher-strikes-hurt-student-achievement/
    How teacher strikes hurt student achievement
    http://www.washingtonpost.com
    How teacher strikes hurt student achievement

    Aaron Bady And suddenly, the “neo” in neoliberal comes into perfect focus…

    Doug Henwood Go ahead comrade. It’s the class war. Check out the landscape architects factoid I just tweeted: $68,830. Not to dis them, but why should teachers make less?

    Doug Henwood ‎75th percentile in Chicago are is about $62,000. Really, why shouldn’t teachers be there?

  3. The sad truth is the institutional Democratic party is no longer a champion of labor rights. In fact, they are hostile to labor rights.

    You should check out this article from Matt Stoller. It’s an instant classic.

    http://www.salon.com/2012/09/06/obamas_convention_charade/

    • Is Obama Athena? Is Clinton Zeus? I think not, and I am tired, now that the hipsters finally see Obama in much the same light we all did in 2008, still have to take pot shots at Bill Clinton. Obama ran as the “anti-Clinton” which seemed to resonate with the “creative class” of the party that wanted to be “love-bombed”. Now, while expressing their disappointment in Obama, they want us to believe that it stems from Obama being a Clinton-creation. Obama did not spring forth from the head of Clinton. If he had he would have gained some political prowess. As such, we know that not to be the case.

      • I thought the best analysis in this piece was how the two parties have melded into a form barely distinguishable from each other. In economic policy, the parties embrace the same things
        ; bailouts for the rich, austerity for everyone else, privatization of public functions and a lot more.
        Bill Clinton’s record stands on its own. He was a good president, the country prospered under his leadership. Now we face a Hobson’s choice for president where no matter who wins, the public loses.

    • Holy hemiola! The most investigated man in presidential history is corrupt because he has received $80 million in speaking fees. He’s spoken in front of people- for money. Presumably, that’s because people want to pay to hear him speak. This is corruption. It’s like JK Rowling getting paid almost a billion from her corrupt little franchise of books she’s writing. Or Lady Gaga corruptly pelvic thrusting and puh-puh-phu-puh-pokerfacing her way to millions.
      Jeez, what is Matt smoking? If there was anything even *remotely* unsavory about the way either Clinton was making money, Congress would be all over it. That’s why he was forced to step down and divest himself of a bunch of shit before she became SOS.
      I think Matt’s obsessive hatred of Clinton is irrational. He doesn’t have facts to back it up. It’s just a feeling he has. At least we have reasons to distrust Obama but Matt’s distrust of Clinton is just unhinged.
      Did it ever occur to Matt that the guy he voted for in 2008 was supposed to get his donors to pay off Hillary’s campaign debts and they reneged on their promises? Oh yeah, they did that. They were probably a bunch of Matt Stoller types.
      I swear, Matt is still working for Obama. What other explanation is there for him to go out of his way to bash a guy who’s been out of office for 12 years and has had an investigative colonic since 1992? If there was even a tincture of corruption, the Republicans would be all over it. But lucky for them, Matt is doing the heavy lifting.

      • I think the Clinton hate is over the top too. He equates high post-presidential pay with corruption–I won’t go that far. Otherwise, his description of national politics is sound.

        I think he sees broad sweep of the era from the mid – 1970s to present as a contiguous historical period. Bill Clinton was the BEST president in this era, but it was an era in which the dominant thrust was to favor capital over labor, globalized capital movement, deindustrialization and wage suppression.

        Minus the pot shots at Bill CLinton, I though the article was excellent.

        • I can’t get past the pot shots at Bill Clinton. It infuriates me that Stoller imagines corruption when there is no evidence but completely ignores all of the corruption of the 2008 primary season where we have plenty of evidence of corruption on Obama’s part. What the fuck is that all about?? I can’t take Stoller seriously until he acknowledges what happened in 2008.
          As for globalization, I don’t think there was a thing Clinton could have done about it except stay in front of it. It was going to happen with or without his cooperation. It would be like trying to stop television. And I think he did a damn good job, considering that it was practically the only period in my life time when wages weren’t falling off a cliff.
          I don’t know, the more I listen to the Matt Stoller’s of the Democratic party, the more they remind me of perfectionist luddites whose main concerns are not economic because the current downturn isn’t really affecting them. Of course, they’re not getting any satisfaction from Obama either but they’re managing to alienate their allies with their silly shit about Clinton. Electing Obama couldn’t possibly be their fault, therefore, Obama’s performance must be a legacy of something Clinton did. Not Bush. No, Clinton.
          There’s something really cracked in that.

          • I have to agree here. The only thing I can do (because I don’t think anyone’s mind is going to be changed about Clinton) is to bring up my hatred of Carter for bringing Religion (“I’ve been born again” .gag.) into Presidential Elections, institutionalizing the Hyde Amendment & pushing for the Line Item Veto and a balanced budget, the loss of Usury Laws, that HE just as Obama did wasted huge democratic majorities and lost momentum for Universal Healthcare and his priggishness at State Dinners (no alcohol in his White House) … it doesn’t change the Clinton perception but, we move into a conversation that is A LOT more fun for me.

          • The Democratic Party has, over this time period, gotten way too cozy with finance capital. Matt bases a lot of his analysis on the work of Thomas Ferguson. Ferguson does an exquisite job of documenting the transition of the Democratic Party from the party of labor to the party of capital. This process began in the 1970s with the Carter presidency. The first wave of financial and banking deregulation ( including lifting the usury caps on credit cards ) occurred under President CArter. When looked at this way, Bill Clinton’s deregulation of derivatives and formal repeal of Glass-Steagal is a continuation of that trend.

            I happen to think his overall analysis is correct, but I think Bill Clinton was the most talented president we had during this period and few others could have pulled off what he did. He took public service seriously. The Bush crew were far too corrupt to entrust this sort of deregulated architecture. Stoller won’t give Clinton his due which is too bad because most of us would give our right arms to get back to that economy.

            One of the reasons I didn’t support Hillary was beause I thought she would bring in the same Rubinites who laid the groundwork for the financial crisis. It turns out that Obama PROMISED a course change, but then he turned to the same corrupt actors for resolution and decided to abdicate economic leadership to Tim Geithner. Obama lied like a rug during the campaign, RD. He lied to get votes, then flipped off the same people who busted their humps for him after he was elected. The blame for this mess is on him.

          • First of all, Clinton didn’t deregulate derivatives. They were never regulated in the first place. Brooksley Born was concerned enough about the lack of transparency to ask Congress to require it. It was Summers and Rubin that done her in with a lot of “Born is not a team player” and “she’s hard to get along with”. In other words, whenever a woman asserts her point of view and does not capitulate like she’s supposed to, she get’s these comments thrown at her. That way, the next time she tries to get something done, the guys don’t want to cooperate from the very beginning. It’s a very effective way to undermine someone’s authority and Summers and Rubin knew *exactly* what they were doing.
            Second, it was the Gramm-Leach-Bliley bill that removed Glass Steagall, It was passed with overwhelming bi-partisan support. IIRC, Clinton was the stick in the mud because the Republicans were going to hold poor communities hostage and make it more difficult for prospective homeowners to get loans. Eventually, that roadblock was cleared and he signed the bill. A veto wouldn’t have made any difference. FWIW, he has openly admitted that he made a mistake taking bad advice.
            But as you note, it wasn’t Hillary who fell back on the Rubinites for advisors. Noooo, she stayed clear of that crowd.
            As for Obama lying, we knew that early on. One of our earliest frontpagers, RonKSeattle, gave us an early heads up to who Obama’s economic advisers were. We knew all about Austan Goolsbee and Obama’s other buddies. It was just one more reason not to trust him. That was in either January or February 2008. (See The Audiology of Hope. There was another one but I can’t find it. I think it mentioned Peter Orzag as well) Obama was not a cypher to us. He didn’t so much as lie as use prestitdigitation so you wouldn’t be paying any attention to the important stuff. But Matt, the congressional aide, should have known. He should have been doing his own investigations about who Obama was listening to and compared the two candidates. But he didn’t. What’s Matt’s excuse?? Is Matt really going to tell me that I don’t know what the fuck I’m talking about when I sized up Obama pretty acurately in 2008 based on information that was readily available and he didn’t?
            Please.
            My opinion of Matt is not going to change his “very serious blogger” credentials. All stupidity will be forgotten now that Matt is having a “Hey, we’ve been eating grass!” moment. It’s because he didn’t “get it” too soon. If he’d gotten it too soon, that would have harshed too many mellows in 2008. No, it had to wait until his epiphany came too late to do any good. NOW, Matt is a hero for figuring Obama out. But since Matt can’t take responsibility for leading so many voters down the garden path in 2008, he’s got to project that shit onto someone else. Why he keeps picking Clinton is beyond me. I guess it relieves him of the ooogie feeling he gets when he thinks how embarrassing it was for Clinton to be caught with his pants down, so to speak. How tacky and tasteless. It was a real Jerry Springer moment and people like Matt can not abide the fact that their precious party was sullied in so prurient a fashion. {{sniff}}
            I can’t think of any other reasonable explanation. The data is there for us to look at. Unemployment was lower, wages were going up, people were happy. There must be something unsavory about it all.
            {{rolling eyes}}
            Matt is vying with Thomas Friedman for Wanker of the Decade.

          • Matt hugs his imagined Clinton corruption like a fetish teddy bear because it’s vastly earlier to control since he makes it up…to look at actual corruption? ewww Not a good career move.

            The Clinton have been the power elite’s and the Dem party’s “left” wing whipping couple for decades . Much better to fill articles with Bill hate than look at what’s actual happening in detail.

            Matt will not taking on the entire system…the entity that installed OB, he’s following its lead and whipping Clinton. If Matt would even be but fair to Clinton, then he would become the supject of other’s Bill hate. Only the Clinton’s careers can endure Clinton hate. That why so few stick up for them .

            This is what Bill can expect if he stumps for Obama. The usual FU and no thanks . Which I’m sure he knows

      • Has to do with misplaced anger, Matt got taken in by Obama and has to put the blame somewhere, so why not the Tofu Class’ fave whipping boy, Bill Clinton. It’s like Irish cops, boinked by their parish priest beating gays.

    • Thanks for posting that — just read. Yeah. Bleak.

  4. We’re all in deep dish now:

    Why The Chicago Teachers Union Deserves Support « Diane Ravitch’s blog

    http://dianeravitch.net/2012/09/08/why-the-chicago-teachers-union-deserves-support/

    Chicago public school parent addresses issues behind the strike
    Video

  5. It would be nice if the union was on the teachers side…but they aren’t .

    http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/sep2012/chic-s11.shtml

    Over the last two years, the CTU has accepted mass layoffs, school closures, “turnarounds” and the dismantling of tenure and other workplace rights. In April of 2011, behind the backs of the membership, the CTU collaborated with the Illinois Democratic-controlled state legislature in the passage of the anti-teacher Senate Bill 7, which restricts the right to strike and expands the use of standardized tests. Earlier this year, the CTU accepted the lengthening of the school day as part of an interim agreement

    Here is an interesting nugget

    Emanuel has plans to shut down dozens of public schools and lay off thousands of teachers. At the same time, the city hopes to open 60 new charter schools in addition to the 100 that are currently operating. Many of the charter schools are owned and operated by Noble Charter Network, which has close ties to billionaire Hyatt Hotel heiress Penny Pritzker, a longtime supporter of Obama.

    ” Follow the money” is still excellent advice

    The public system is being replaced by a for profit one and that has the full support of both Dem and Repugs

    My local public school was shut down last summer (.There had been a school there since 1748 ) My Democratic mayor had dozens of city workers there all summer fixing it up. It had more work done in those weeks than it had had in 20 years. Last Fri it opened as a charter school…and the city’s officials and media was there to celebrate

    Charter schools : private profit on the public dime . Sadly the Dems and Unions are fully on board and leading the way .

    • Oh Paper. Oh. Wake up & smell the toxic. It’s only 5 in the morn. Oh brother.

      • One has to know not to fully trust the unions to even begin to use what’s left of them. People stopped marching in WI because the teacher union told them not to and told them there would be a recall. How did that work out? The Dems put up a guy who believes in what Walker was doing, had used Walker laws in his own city and they lost…further embolding the Walkers

    • There is a right way to do charter schools. They can be run by the school district, using union teachers. What the teachers have to give up is total control over the curriculum and instruction. By that I mean they have to be willing to accept direction from parents. There is a public charter school in Princeton like this and it has a gigantic waiting list. Parents get tired of the “we know best, we’re educators” spiel, especially when educators don’t value the same things in education that parents do. So, parents in Princeton took matters into their own hands. In this case, it worked out. But I suspect that if educators had been willing to bend back in the 90’s, they wouldn’t be so brittle today. That didn’t happen. Instead, educators seemed to almost go out of their way to try unproven trendy curriculum and methods and spurn any input from parents. We still have to put up with that here in NJ when it comes to gifted education. The NJ teachers union doesn’t seem to believe in it. They prefer heterogenous classroom instruction for all children and as a result, we have had a very deliberate cutting down of gifted kids so that they stay with the herd. Finally, after 11 years of pain and distress, we are seeing the barest thaw in behavior of teachers towards the gifted. They’re easing up on the busy work requirement. But we still have a long way to go.
      Anyway, that’s my two cents. Sure, the Republicans have wanted to get their hands on public money for private ventures for a couple decades. But teachers inadvertently made it easier for them to do it by failing to evolve into a real professional organization complete with rigorous training standards of their own and a spirit of experimentation.
      I tried to warn my local teachers back in the 90s when I was on the BOE. But they knew best and wouldn’t listen. Now the salad days are over and they’re fighting for their livelihoods.

      • imo they would be battling for thier livelihood in any case. The system is being dismantled for money…the actual merits or draw backs of the public school system is kind of irrelevant to what is happening . What’s of import to the forces doing the dismantling(that is, the entire power structure) is education is a 1 trillion dollar a year set up. They want that public money going into private hands .

        • I disagree. What taxpayers want more than anything else is control.
          They want to control how the money is spent in a way that suits them best. If teachers hadn’t been so adamant about being considered the experts a couple of decades ago, and trust me, I’ve seen it in action, the hubris was over the top, they wouldn’t be having so much difficulty today. There would be fewer voices screaming for their heads. Unfortunately, school administrators and teachers went out of their way to shoot down all kinds of parental input. I’ve had two girls, 14 years apart. Their educations couldn’t have been more different and in neither case did I have the impression that teachers genuinely listened to a single thing I said. I had one first grade teacher tell me that Brook couldn’t read even though I assured her that Brook most certainly could. How hard would it have been to march Brook down to the library, pull any book off the shelf randomly and get Brook to read it to make sure she hadn’t just memorized a couple of favorite suess books? It would have saved so much grief and aggravation for all parties. This has been a constant struggle. I don’t get reports for my children, I get orders. I’m told I have to be their teacher at home and if the kid doesn’t get the assignment, it’s MY fault. It’s been one long guilt trip for both kids but at no point in time has the system asked me for my input. In fact, it doesn’t WANT my input. It wants my compliance. And that’s just the thing that pisses taxpayers off. It’s “give us the money, we know what’s best. We don’t want your suggestions.”
          It seems like taxpayers want to cut off the tap but they’re going to have to go somewhere to educate their children and around here, private schools are $26K/year. Very few people have that kind of money or a wife who wants to homeschool, spending 24/7 with kids.
          What they want is for educators to listen to them and make that money an incredible value. You know what parent’s don’t want to hear? “We can’t have a decent science or math curriculum because our K-8 teachers aren’t qualified to teach it. They’re undertrained because that’s the state’s teaching standards. Whaddayagunnado?”
          I used to hear that shit all the time and it was old after the first time. There’s simply no excuse for educators to not reform themselves without any prompting.

          • What I am remembering is how public schools were when we went to school as kids. I can’t imagine what has happened since. Out here, the public education system was fantastic. There was art, music, everything. When I listened to the video I thought of that. We didn’t have kids, so I can’t imagine what it turned into for RD. I know this though — teachers never should have been diagnosing kids. That’s my old profession, therapist. In the mid-nineties that was a trend. Now the DSM. Frightening. I can show you something on that. http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/05/23/kids.overmedicated/index.html There was a trend because of crowded classrooms to medicate kids for ADHD. They were target-marketing that in Parade as I left grad school at the end of the 90’s. As an intern, I had a clinical supervisor putting two year olds on Prozac. Very sad. Anyway, thinking of all of you today. It’s just a sad day. 9/11 again. you know RD I’ve been thinking of the college years forward. The Carter Dems. The whole backdrop of our childhoods. And then the now. Going to write about it.

          • You write it, I’ll read it

  6. ps: “Follow the Money” was a piece by Lin but you can only get it on Wayback. Like RD & Upps she was a voice I followed. Don’t know if this will work but if you ever want to see, they were incredible writers http://www.savagepolitics.com Use the wayback machine — they were 2008 Prsker is in this piece of Lin’s too. http://web.archive.org/web/20080308064501/http://savagepolitics.com/? The links were gone at my place? Something else in it’s place. Les Miserables. It works for me.

  7. I miss you RD. Funny I was telling KB in FB the night of the DNC. She Lambert and I. It was like being with old friends even though we have never “met” no kidding. Smiles as I type this. Everything you said RD — we had some idealism growing up in the times we did. It was hard, because we were not those older Boomers — ours is a whole different time. I’m really looking at Hillary/Ann as the Second Wave. What happened? We were like Hillary. School first. We weren’t Ann. We (post-Roe) know what our whole gen went through. Our friends. I’m thinking of doing a book. Dunno. Called “F*cked” a history of the tail ender post Roe — assumptions, dreams, school, those guys who didn’t want to be fathers for all the kids they sired. Hillary as “role model” for girls who were like us. Career, supporting oneself, education — these things were everything to us? Yeah. Hugs!

  8. Sup? End public sector unions. Terrible results. Excessive compensation. 39% of Chicago teachers send their own kids to private school. Whining, complaining, lazy and over compensated. Good teachers and admistrators are forced to toe the line. RIP CTU.

    • So, what do you think of the fact that 84% of Chicago’s public school students live in families that are below the poverty line in income?
      Or are you also against a living wage?

  9. Really, how could they afford to live in Chicago, a city in which teachers need average $~74k to survive and they want more. Does not make sense. The world is not based on a living wage, all who comment and teach and administrate have no regard to wether someone gets a living wage to produce their products and services. The people are paying their crazy salaries and benefits are making average $40k per year with no pension. They only care to expand their union. They even take great advantage of illegal immigrants to expand the school funding and let them clean their houses, not for a living wage though. Check out http://www.openthebooks.com , has teacher and administrator compensation, it is unbelievable and then look at the pensions. You can go through hundreds of pensioners getting $11k per month for life plus healhtcare, wow so fair. They are in a fantasy land of GREED. Crooks negotiating with other crooks for the peoples money. Wake Up. Maybe the whole city is a leech on the
    US.

    • We all should get pensions that are as nice as a teacher’s. We all deserve it. Americans work harder than the rest of the developed world and we have bloody little to show for it.
      I guess we could all just eat each other and fight for the last scrap that the wealthy are willing to part with but why should we?
      Jesus tap dancin’ Christ, what a whip kisser you are.
      BTW, I used to be a board of Ed member involved in teacher union negotiations in a comfortable middle class suburb and I have never heard of anyone getting $11K/month in pensions. You need to check your source for honesty. As for administrators, the good superintendents around here are only getting about $150K/year. That seems OUTRAGEOUS until you realize that they’re managing hundreds of people and overseeing a large number of buildings and preparing the budget which is tens of millions of dollars every year. A person in the private sector with that much responsibility would laugh at that kind of money.
      I have frequently noticed that the ones who complain loudest about the salaries at a board meeting are the ones who drive there in their Lexus SUVs. They’ve got some nerve to tell other working people to take a cut.
      Save your outrage for the wealthy. You can’t squeeze the teachers without eventually hurting all the other working people who use the union bennies as their own benchmark.
      I swear, the collective IQ on the right side of the aisle has just dived off a cliff in the last several years.

    • Doctors and dentists make more money than their $40,000/year public. If teachers should not make make more than their $40,000/year public, why should doctors and dentists make more than their $40,000/year public?

      Are medicine and dentistry more important and high-pay-worthy than teaching? If so, why?

      And as to those pension numbers, what sort of pension does a strictly-teaching teacher get? Out of a system of many thousands of employees, I can see why a propagandist would cherry pick the several hundred high and highest level managers-of-many-employees
      to highlight the pensions of. I suspect it is a clever bit of bait-and-switch misdirection.

      Figures lie when liars figure.

  10. Maybe because we went to public schools.
    The link I gave as reference is information from the state of Illinois with teacher and administrators names and their compensations.
    What if I come and clean your house for $50 and you like it. Then the next week I come and clean your house and demand you pay $295. You say, you will call some one else. I say, no you can’t call a scab, I need a living wage and you are not allowed to call someone else. You say, thats too much money. I say, I want $400 and paid vacation, sick day, holidays and I need a pension and healthcare for the rest of my life. You say, I don’t even get that good a deal and I won’t pay it. I say, you house will never be clean and that is a violation of the heath code and a inspector will come and seize your property for a violation. You go to the street because you were NOT FAIR.

    • lol … do you have a riff on the greedy banks and corporations ?…or just public employees ?

      • Sic him, PD!

      • Large banks and large corporations buy too much government influence. Why hasn’t our current government prosecuted anyone for the financial crisis? shocking. I can vote out an elected official. But, who can touch unions, unions use money (dues) from it’s members to get contracts that ‘the people’ must fulfill. The politician gives the public’s money away and in turn he/she is rewarded with contributions from the union or a threat if he does not play. Don’t you see something wrong with that system? Why don’t the public union contracts go to a vote of the people that pay the taxes, they are the ones the teachers and administrators are working for, the ones that pay them. Right? The one who pays the money is the boss. Everyone else lives under that system.
        Public unions infiltrate services we must have and hold the people for ransom. Like now! They create students that are not competitive because they are not competitive either. 50% grad rate. wow.
        I find it interesting you do not respond to my little ‘what if’ story……… I guess the knife only cuts one way.
        Public sector unions should be abolished.
        Large banks and corporations should not get significant advantages by buying government influence. Our government is way too big and must be reduced. But, I don’t have to buy an iPhone 5, but I will from the largest corporation on earth. And yes, we can bring manufacturing back to the US, but cities like Chicago is what drove manufacturing away.
        Just watch GM, a 2 billion dollar company that got $90 billion added to balance sheet. They are selling cars at a loss, but are making it up with volume (ha ha). Their financial arm are making BAD loans to sell cars (sound familiar?) Their stock is less than half. The american people will never get their money back. They will try to get bailed out again. They also have no corporate taxes for years. Most of the money went to unions and pensions. Investors got screwed out of their money. (Including many pension funds). See what happens when the government is involved, influence is bought. Small business gets lip service, taxes and regulations. Which is suppose to be the engine of America. Unions and governments put sawdust in that engine.

    • Oh, give it a rest. Like I said, I’ve never seen pensions that pay $11K/month. If you say there are “hundreds” of them, then consider yourself lucky since there are 10s of thousands of teachers. But I don’t believe it unless those teachers are collecting one time payments at retirement for a career’s worth of unused sick days.
      That stupid website you linked is to the forthegoodofillinois which is an offshoot of the Libertarian party. And it was Libertarian assholes who were a major pain in our district when we needed to pass a new schools referendum 16 years ago. The increase in property taxes would have been a lot less than it later turned out to be. The Libertarians actually made education MORE expensive in our district because we weren’t able to purchase land to build new schools when the few parcels that were left to us were still affordable. The kids in the high school are bursting at the seams even though the Libertarians insisted that all we needed was an addition. They completely refused to believe all empirical evidence that the district was outgrowing its buildings. Instead of having one all encompassing referendum that would have solved our problems for years, we had a bunch of smaller, less adequate referendums at much higher eventual costs to the taxpayers. Those people should undergo some public humiliation for the extra costs they heaped onto seniors as well as the crowded situation they forced on the kids. My daughter in High School gets about 15 minutes to eat her lunch because there’s no room to eat and everyone has to lunch in teensy shifts.
      Like I said before, if you’re not getting a pension that’s as nice as a teacher’s, you need to ask your employer why that is. Ohhhh, you can’t because you’re scared, right? So, you’d rather bust a union that has a history of doing what you’re too chicken shit to do.
      Go away, Marky, before someone drops a house on you.

  11. Did you go to the link? No? F
    Cannot follow instructions. F
    Your facts, F

    I am providing the first page of CPS pension from the link I gave you, I do this so the challenged can get a fair chance at the truth:
    BTW, if you go to link this goes on for pages and pages.

    IL – Pensions – Monthly Payments to Retirees – Chicago Public Schools (CPS)

    1990 Byrd $14,114.67
    2008 Harper 9997 – Illinois Federation Of Teachers $13,171.75
    2010 Eason-Watkins 105 – Chief Educ Office $13,008.59
    1993 Saddler $12,529.52
    2001 Kimsey $12,478.58
    2009 Dallas 950 – C-W Educ General $12,095.06
    2002 Buckney 10 – Board Of Education $11,555.08
    2010 Mcguire 9998 – Chicago Teacher’s Union $11,247.84
    2010 Foley 915 – High School Attendance Unit $11,036.25
    1995 Branch 697 – Sub Postal Service $10,871.69
    1993 Harrigan $10,830.07
    2002 Hade $10,728.39
    2010 Stewart 9998 – Chicago Teacher’s Union $10,682.90
    2010 Jones 524 – Area Ins Office 2 $10,621.84
    2009 Barron 500 – Office Of Area In $10,516.31
    1988 Elenbogen $10,498.92
    2010 Carroll 9998 – Chicago Teacher’s Union $10,449.38
    2007 Jones City Wide Principal Prep & Dev $10,427.27
    2007 Scott 1270 – Crane Tech H S $10,424.54
    2010 Hall 1030 – Dunbar Voc H S $10,353.77
    2007 Jager 3140 – Eberhart $10,349.33
    1993 Stephenson $10,335.89
    2010 Keating 2950 – Dirksen $10,326.16
    2006 Cooper-Stanton 320 – Office Of Reading $10,319.11
    2007 Bibbs 1160 – Westinghouse Car $10,308.95
    1993 Bryant $10,282.75
    2010 Gilligan 470 – Hs Development $10,263.98
    2010 Reyes 5820 – Seward $10,252.05
    2007 Green 3970 – Herzl $10,249.98
    2006 Vaske 515 – Area Ins Office 1 $10,247.13
    2007 Pierzchalski 519 – Area Ins Office 1 $10,243.17
    2008 Mitchell 450 – Special Svcs Admi $10,235.94
    2009 Laluz 504 – Area Inst Office $10,184.93
    2004 Donaldson 300 – Professional Deve $10,177.20
    2011 Acevedo 4380 – Lozano Bilingual $10,168.79
    2010 Guercio 2270 – Bell $10,168.58
    2006 Murray 514 – Area Ins Office 1 $10,157.51
    2007 Breashears 1320 – Robeson H S $10,150.70
    2005 Alexander 1490 – Morgan Park H S $10,137.11
    2007 Szymanski 4580 – Manierre $10,128.04
    2003 Nickolich 299 – Dpty Supt Business $10,127.23
    2007 Menconi 4850 – Monroe $10,119.83
    2009 Avery 518 – Area Ins Office 1 $10,114.47
    2000 Edwards $10,111.22
    2007 Pawelski City Wide Principal Prep & Dev $10,103.61
    2006 Laho 340 – Principal Prep/De $10,082.63
    2008 Womack 513 – Area Ins Office 1 $10,072.78
    2009 Moore 508 – Area Inst Office $10,066.00
    2011 Feaman 1430 – Lake View H S $10,017.16
    2010 Cosme 506 – Area Inst Office $10,010.44

    • I *did* go to the link.
      I actually looked to see who was sponsoring it. They’re libertarians.
      There is something fishy about the above numbers. If you do the investigating, you’ll find out that these are anomalous for a specific reason. Your source is not telling you what it is.

  12. Oh yeah, love the threats and cursing, very union of you. Maybe if employees did not absorb all of the resources there could be more room. The workers are rich, but the public sees a poor face. Typical tactic. My daughter only gets 15 minutes to eat, waaaaa. what a joke. If only we had more money, yeah, more money. And in response to you employer comment, I have a small business and would like to expand, but will not until things in government are much different. I work 6 days a week and practically never get time off, but I love what I do. I lost tremendous amount of income in last decade, but have built it back up. You just would not understand. I do not feel I am entitled to anything. Also, since you don’t like my source of data with names, where is your source. We are the employer, where is the list of salaries, benefits, pensions, healthcare, holidays, breast feeding rooms, pms hangouts. sunscreen for strikers? Where?

    • ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz…

    • You’re not entitled to *anything*? What plantation do you work on? Did they lobotomize you first?
      You’re right, I wouldn’t understand because it sounds masochistic and stupid.
      For the record, I used to design cancer drugs. There was no union where I worked but the people I lost my job to- in France- they had a union. You bet your sweet ass I wish I had a union. *I* loved my job too. But I wasn’t crazy enough to think I wasn’t entitled to stuff. And I have no desire to work for myself. I have no desire to be rich. Yeah, let that sink in. Some of us don’t want to be rich and/or powerful. And our types of businesses do not thrive when they consist of individual entrepreneurs. But the wealthy would like for you to LOVE to be an entrepreneur. The more they can isolate you, the less power you have to challenge them or demand anything.
      And I am entitled to what I paid into the system. I worked since 1986 full time and I paid into the social security system at a premium. I want it all back, ever penny that was promised.
      ‘git.

  13. Your comment about unused sick days is a joke, it makes me gag that someone expects to be paid for unused sick days. unbelievable. I’ve worked for decades for companies not taking sick days or expecting compensation. One of the most upsetting things is the basic structure of unions against management instead of being part of a team to generate profit and share in the profit. Unions by definition are parasitic, absorbing the host with no regard to the outcome of the host’s goals. What is wrong with pay based upon some kind of performance metric. Why can’t we fire bad teachers?

    • The petty bourgeoisie don’t get any pettier than this. ;)

      • Better go to sleep, to get up early for drinking and striking. I am still working while I argue with you, but my boss said it’s ok. Funny I’m working on gps positioning and I did similar work for motorola in schaumberg 16 years ago.
        ‘Petty Bourgeoisie’ is that your term for the people that make their own money as compared to the ones that feel entitled to someone else’s?
        It’s great when name calling occurs, I know you have no real response to the facts. Chicago’s record speaks for itself. The whiney anecdotes are tiring and void of facts.

        • I don’t drink ethanolic beverages, if that’s what you mean, nor do I use any other recreational drugs.

          I don’t need drugs. I naturally live in an altered state of consciousness.

          You work for someone else? I thought you were a noble Randian ubermensch who owned his own business. :P

          As for “facts”, I have learned that when a wingnut speaks of “facts”, he (usually a he) is parroting myths from some wingnut propaganda site.

          Besides, who says I’m trying to win any argument? I may simply be poking you with a sharp stick to hear you holler. :twisted:

    • I work for a private employer, and I get paid for unused sick days.

      Hence, I don’t take sick days unless I’m actually sick, because I like that bonus money at the end of the year. :D

      So, my employers get more work out of me.

      That should be simple enough for even a Libertard to understand. :P

      Disclosure: Rehabilitated former Randroid and Libertard here. :mrgreen:

    • It’s not a joke to get compensated for unused sick days. That is in some union’s contract. It’s a fricking CONTRACT. They get paid for sick days. If they don’t take them in 40 years, the school district cuts them a check, one time. I’m not saying that’s what happened in the cases above but no one gets $11K/year in pension. It does not happen. Ever.

    • Enters fray with a true story! I never worked for a real “union” but the newspaper I worked for had associations for Editorial and PrePress. It was fun in the days we got to have raises. Really fun. I loved working at the company. But guess what? When it was bought up by a really really large NY paper? The first thing they did was break up the associations. After that? There were never any raises, bonuses, anything. Zip. Ever again. And guess who ran the whole place with the same old sob story year in and year out. A guy making over 350,000 grand. That was then. He was a real prick. I suggest you read Dickens and maybe study up on the labor movement in America and Labor laws before you spout off. You can right here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_labor_law and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_history_of_the_United_States. It’s not clear why you are so angry or take this position? But maybe you need a sick day, or a day off. If you are 35 and younger — I’ll just use that as a barometer you have worked under very different conditions than most Americans did. It was only in the late 80’s that during all the buyouts and mergers that happened in this county began to really screw it up for the average worker. That’s great that you love what you do? But where did you get that idea about sick days? People in America used to be able to have vacations, sick days, normal things. As for what happened to that company? Well, we don’t really have an American Press anymore. That’s gone. It would help if you talked about where you learned your ideas about work? Really. As American corporations moved overseas they created sweatshops. Look that up in the wikipedia. What you are describing is that sort of working environment? I’m very sorry that it has been so hard for you.

    • Wait! You’ve worked for decades. Ah. So you got screwed over too, I bet. I love the performance metric. We had that. I was top scale. Performance. Til the mergers. A real monster bought the place, finally. I’ll show you what happened. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJhL2TwJGuA — Now you share! I’m sure we all have a hell story because it has really sucked for most people, no? It has. One more thing. Watch this video. This was America in 1962. Everything you see here that the women are buying? Was made here — by people who had unions. Also we got imports from countries other than China and there were no big box stores. This ought to blow your mind. You are looking at the middle class. My childhood. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTzhLjog86Y

  14. You should see this film marky mark. This is what happened to America. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha2_W3EYws0

  15. Now watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLWnB9FGmWE I’m not planning to vote for O, and didn’t in the last election. I went Republican, and might again — but you should watch this. It’s not so much about him but about what corporate raiders pulled all over the country. After that? Watch this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiY-q6Wafgg

  16. Somehow, I remembered this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkgx1C_S6ls Perot and the Giant Sucking sound. What happened. You know? Perot said that — it was 1993.

  17. Am watching this, which takes marky marks position so maybe he can elaborate? http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=1hhJ_49leBw&feature=endscreen

  18. Hi Valentine, I appreciate your comments. I will look closer at everything you cited later tonight when I need a sidetrack from work. After little review I see a lot of reference to Detroit. I do have a lot to comment on that since I grew up street racing cars and took apart engines, rear ends and a little transmission. I definitely saw the change of GM car quality where it was good in the 60’s and quickly went bad in the 70’s. Cars would just rattle themselves apart, leaving americans with junk cars, running in parking lots with the key out (detonation). I loved working on and racing cars, but after the torture of the 70’s cars, I was one of the first to buy a German car and unfortunately drive German today. I’ve always been one that influences many people on buying decisions and I am the guy that could fix your car when it had problems. GM kills itself though arrogance and unions, rarely responsive to it’s customers and styling still sucks. Although, quality has increased greatly. I was attracted to the new cadillac sports cars coming out from a technology standpoint but, they are sooooo ugly. Sorry. I remember when mad union people were welding rear wheels to the the rear drum brakes, which this is never detected until you are on side of road with a flat. And the coke bottle in the car door rattling, lot of fun. Also, more recent union people sabotaging robots used for assembly. It’s like a war between union and management. Unbelievable.

    • You are our age, and that was the Pinto, no? So — my grandfather was never without his Mercedes. I get it. Anyway, yeah — our gen hasn’t had it easy. But the bigger concern now is what just happened yesterday. We need our childhoods back, this country back the way it was. That’s all. Except, you know? Take a sick day now and again, because you can. And on that day? Just take it. xxoo!

      • I used Detroit as metaphor. Lately I’ve been remembering the 70’s, hugely. Also? I want to know what the Left did? They were way older than us — with their own agenda. Even back in 2008 the anti-colonialism was unusual. We looked at that, then. So did the blog No Quarter. That was the CIA? Hugs.

    • Those German cars were all made by Unionized workforces. As far as I know, the German car companies are all Unionized today. I wonder if Germany still has that law where Corporations are legally forced to include a Union official on the Corporate Board of Directors?

  19. I support teachers in Chicago as they walk the line for the children of this nation. Not only are they fighting for their own livelihoods but for the future of public education.

  20. Sorry, I’m distracted by middle east trouble and corrupt journalists e.g. Jan Crawford Greenburg, conspiring with other journalists. There are good people and good points made on this thread. I would suggest that it’s not a great time for teachers to protest when others are protesting, it’s probably going to make them look even worse. Just the design of workers against management is problematic. Our country can be strong and strong and prosperous again. It’s not going to happen by beating up the wealth generators. One thing is for sure, our country will keep falling as long as Barack Obama is president and our media is allowed to be corrupt and biased. Thanks

    • Oh forpeetssakes, are you back? You know, we’re not into subservience here. We don’t think a class system is conducive to using talent optimally. And we believe that every worker has dignity and deserves to benefit from whatever he or she does, even if it impinges on management’s ability to take everything that isn’t nailed down.
      I think you’ll be more comfortable with some S&M quasi-religious, law and order site that’s into obedience.

  21. Our country can be strong and prosperous again. Its not going to happen by sucking up to the wealth aggregators. One thing is for sure, our country will keep falling as long as Oromneybama is President and the Class Enemy Occupation Media is allowed to be
    corrupt and biased. Thanks.

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