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OccupyWallStreet: We have been starving the wrong beast

I’m back at home in my own warm little bed. Ahhhhh. So, I have a little time to process what I saw here today. I have pics but will wait until tomorrow to post them. Many thanks to Partition Function for meeting me in Zuccotti Park and letting me bounce impressions and ideas off of him.

Ok, here are my general impressions and hints about where I think this is going:
Tonight was OWS‘ first month anniversary. So, they’ve already crossed an important milestone. The park looks different from the first time I visited there in both a good and less good way. There are a lot of people. It’s fairly packed and there really aren’t many places to sit down and collect your thoughts. There is still a very diverse population. You will find people of all ages and ethnicities there. These people seem to be very smart. Organizationally, it feels like a neighborhood block party with small groups working on logistics or concepts. There is a lot of openness and sharing and this is all good. (I’ll say why there should also be a note of caution as well later.) There are also a few more freaky types. I don’t know where these people come from. If I didn’t know better I’d say they were hired, as in, if they didn’t exist, Fox News would have to invent them and for all I know, it did. I didn’t notice these people the last time I was here.

The mood of the place seems a little less festive and a little more serious. By that I mean that people are turning up because they are looking for connections. They have something important to say, their own perspective on a complicated puzzle and they are seeking synergies. It seems a little disorganized but there wasn’t one person I spoke to who didn’t know exactly why he/she was there. Think of it as a giant open air salon.

There are more people who have mapped out their own little smidgeon of the park for identity politics. In this respect, I’m a little concerned. In my humble opinion, the more you go overboard to make your point, like wearing a grim reaper costume and earnestly proclaiming your concern about who is killing the planet, the more people you will drive away. Yes, the environment is paramount in all of our minds but it would be a shame if the movement, which is based primarily on economic grievances, is derailed by this kind of thing. It would give an unrealistic picture of the 99% and, frankly, I’m an omnivore. I like my steaks medium rare and my veal grilled with porcini mushroom dust. I’m not interested in your lifelong committment to veganism. I understand why having options for vegans who are occupying is important but I don’t want to feel like I’m doing something immoral if I don’t get onboard some crunchy granola agenda. No, seriously, some of these identity groups have a quasi-religious zealousness to them and I don’t want any part of that.

So, there are two possible solutions that the facilitators might want to consider. They could ask the people in question to tone it down. Or they could try to make the economic issues more prominent. What we the 99% can do is continue to come to the occupations. I’m cool with the prospect of safe nuclear energy someday. We need more people there who are willing to entertain that idea. We need more people from corporations who are willing to say that some industries work better as corporations. It’s the way they interact with the financial industry, politicians and deregulation that are the problems. I don’t want buzzwords and tribal allegiences to ruin what could be very promising.

As to where I think this is going, hmmm, I got a few hints and clues. The alternative currency working group is up to something. If I were the typical hysterical Glenn Beck viewer, I would relax. They don’t want to cause an economic catastrophe. But it sounds like this group has been talking with “prominent” experts who would be able to act as outside consultants. They are weighing their options about how to create a new, vibrant economy. I am intrigued.

The other interesting thing I picked up on was the plan for the global day of solidarity on 11/11/11. OccupyCentralPark wants to kick off a weekend of learning on that day and have a massive occupation in Central Park. The theme of this event appears to be that we hate Wall Street because we are dependent on it. And our individual and national economic well being is tied to how well Wall Street does even as it feels free to abuse us. So, OWS would like to present some plans to teach us to free ourselves from the Wall Street tentacles so that we can reassert control over our lives. I don’t know what this will involve but if you’ve ever felt that your life was out of control because Wall Street had you strapped to its global roulette wheel, this event would seem to be geared to presenting alternatives so that you can break that gambling addiction, at least for yourself. If I had to sum that idea up in a short meme it would be, “We have been starving the wrong beast”.

Finally, about the perils of openness and sharing. Let me tell a story about an event called YearlyKos. YearlyKos1 in 2006 was planned as a meetup for the users at DailyKos to get together and brainstorm how to take back Congress. Few of us had ever met before and when we did, the feeling of complete openness and sharing and psychological flow state was very powerful. It was like a 3 day high. It took me a week to come down from my euphoria. YearlyKos2 was a different story for me. I had logistical problems, like a missing registration, a hotel room that was distant from the ones that the rest of the kossacks were staying and related transportation issues. In short, I was not experiencing the flow state of the year before and I was not as attuned to the emotional state of the other participants. It occurred to me today that this was a very good thing because emotions can be easily manipulated when they are in an excited state and the people all around you are responding to the same stimuli.

This afternoon, I briefly got that fleeting feeling of YearlyKos1. There were some people who I felt I was connecting with who wanted to talk about stuff I felt was important and the sharing of ideas was very simpatico, not because we were thinking the same things but because I was getting information that was filling in the data I was missing from my own perspective. That is when I started to feel that I had to be cautious. Collaboration is highly desirable; a hive mind is not. That is not to say that OWS is promoting such a thing. It’s just that it’s probably inevitable due to the nature of the movement, our grievances and our desire to work this out. It’s a social phenomenon as well as a psychological one. When that flow state is reached and we’re all in an excited emotional state, that is when we are most vulnerable to each other and to outside forces who may wish to infiltrate and redirect the movement in a certain direction. I want this movement to succeed and grow and add as many diverse voices as possible that will work to help us shake our dependence on Wall Street, and by extension, the parties that rely on Wall Street. So, I would advise you that if you start to feel euphoric, that you step out of the conversation, go get something to eat, take a pee, walk around the park until the feeling goes away. If it doesn’t go away, go home. Come back when you have a clear head and have learned to master your ability to put some emotional distance between you and the rest of the group. Be happy, enthusiastic and engaged. Do not get giddy. Engaged is good, giddy is not. I hope that makes sense.

Ok, I’m off to beddy-bye. Things are starting to take shape. It’s a good thing. Make it grow by getting involved. We CAN do this.

nighty night

**************************************************************
Here are my notes from the general assemby (GA), and other observations from today:

7:25 pm: partition function and I are at the general assembly. Is there any topic you want us to present at the progressive stack? Please let us know ASAP.

First working group reportback: Occupy Halloween. They need donations. Check the kickstarter page for Power to the Puppets

We are making a flowchart of the declaration of Occupation of NYC. We want to make it easy to read without too much simplification. the working group is requesting help.

Visions and goals document group working group report back: a new group whose goal is to collect, refine and working toward publishing liberty plaza’s visions and goals. The results will be released only with the consensus of the general assembly. Over 200 people have had input. We will have a meeting tomorrow to explain creatively the goals of this group. We will also be discussing potentially a proposal that the GA will follow.

A statement of the document will be proposed at tomorrow’s general assembly.

The divine feminine discussion group will be held tonight for females and female identified individuals. There will be a women’s caucus.

Working group on alternative currency has gone missing.

Religious support group: any religion, philosophy, or chemical affiliation. ???

Think tank working group: collects ideas and solutions. Email your ideas to owsthinktank@gmail.com

Alternative currency working group has been found! Next Monday, there will be a meeting where we can see the stars. (this has meaning to them, but is Greek to me). There will be a meeting tomorrow at Charlotte’s place. There will be prominent thinkers. All very mysterious.

Media working group: breakout session on GA to more effectively communicate everyone’s message of solidarity.

Widescreen subgroup: we need some help with media production. Contact the media subgroup.

ANNOUNCEMENTS: they are for important information but not personal opinions
Save your opinions for Soapbox. It happens every night after GA. No time limit.

- I’m from security. I just confiscated a whole case of alcohol. This will get us kicked out of this park. Don’t even think about it.

- Christina: I would like to announce a march on Oct 22 against police brutality at 2:00pm. We do not promote violence at any time. We don’t know how people got the idea that we do otherwise.

- Community affairs: please read the good neighbor policy and do not pee or poop in public. I can’t stress this enough. We are under attack by the media. Don’t give them ammunition.

- Occupycentralpark: we are growing. We aren’t allowed to camp there. But it’s our park. We want to be able to meet there on one weekend. We want to teach people. We only hate Wall Street because we depend on it. We can run our own system so we don’t have to depend on wall street. So, meet in central park on 11/11/11. (That’s binary for 63, right?) We would like the whole world to join in for a day of solidarity. What part of central park? We are designing a new map of central park. We are planning to meet at the bandshell but we are hoping so many people come that we will be everywhere in central park.

Sounds like there will be a plan on how to escape Wall Street on 11/11/11. That’s my interpretation.

2:43 pm: Ok, I’m in Zuccotti Park. It’s packed here. The place is crawling with press. I just got interviewed by a student at Columbia for a report she’s writing. I told her all about the decimation of the R&D industry but she wants to hear from more people who have advanced degrees and can’t find a job in the sciences. If you are interested in talking to her, leave a comment in the comment threads. You don’t have to announce who you are or your contact info. I can retrieve your email address from the comment and will send you the student’s name and email address. Deadline for her report is Wednesday morning.

5:20pm Hello this is Partition Functions with RD in occupied OWS on this beautiful but windy
Autumn day. While the crowd is diverse in ages, background and interests, there appears to also that specialization is occurring in that working groups on topics related to the wider community
are forming, for example we were both recruited to be a part of a school policy curriculum working group. There are also more musicians, but despite that, the mood is more serious. Not sure why, could be that maybe it’s the office crowd. Maybe it’s because it’s a weekday. We’re heading over to open mic. RD signed up.

See you later.

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54 Responses

  1. I read here when I can. I have been to NYC and Toronto. What pushed me to the edge was FATCA and FBAR. Both hidden in the “Hire” legislation are harming families all over the world. Mine included. I am now a liability to my family by virtue of being American. We owed the United States ZERO in taxes at all but, fines for not filing an FBAR are ten thousand a year. An FBAR is a paper no one ever told most of us about, telling the treasury about every account your name is on even if you made zero of the money in it and even if the person who did has never been American at all. An FBAR is not taxes and doesn’t even go to the IRS. It does not matter if the amount was not enough to be taxed on under the agreement as most times it would not have been. This was a money grab through fines and penalties drummed up and has nothing whatsoever to do with “taxes” unlike what the MSM is saying about it. They include foreign pensions in this even if you are just a future beneficiary and the fine? Twenty percent.. People who committed fraud on Wall Street and big banks got bailed out with billions. Meanwhile these families are insultingly lumped in with “tax cheats” drug lords and criminals. Nothing could be further from the truth. No one moves to Canada to escape taxes, no one here who is American owes the U.S. since under the agreement between the two countries if your taxes are higher where you live you get an exemption for that. However FBAR and FATCA go much, much further. Some banks are refusing to let anyone from the U.S. open an account at all now. Insurance companies won’t deal with us. And further some companies up here are getting rid of U.S. assets *yeah that will help the economy* The embassy in Calgary stated that are backed up with people renouncing citizenship over this treatment.People who are elderly in some cases and who have held U.S. citizenship for decades. They are renouncing to protect their foreign family from future money grabs when no taxes were owing. Since after this move no one knows what they’ll do next. Of course the U.S. press has not told the truth about what this actually is and what it actually does. I have family in both countries and can tell you these two piece of legislation are heinous. They tout that they’ve “caught” “tax cheats” with it. Yes, and that number is tiny compared to the thousands of people they have put through hell on earth for nothing. It over steps the bounds of what the U.S. ought to legally be able to do and invades the privacy of people in many cases who are not even citizens of the U.S. in many, many ways. It imposes draconian fines upon the working class and poor. Canada’s government has spoken out against it strongly. Way to go Obama. Piss off Canada, that’s something hardly any other U.S. president was able to do, to this degree. There are six million Americans and their families caught up in this mess and meanwhile they leave the people who live in the U.S. and offshore in real tax havens like Panama and the Caymans alone for the most part. So once again, totally innocent hard working people are scape goats and big fat billionaires are mostly getting a walk in the park.

    • I’d like to front page this tomorrow if that’s ok with you.

      • I’m so sorry! I am not sure if you were talking to me but, if so yes, you do whatever you like. I love this page. I hadn’t had time to get back here as I spent my day preparing red beans and rice to take to the Occupiers near me. It’s cold. You’re doing a wonderful job with these reports!

  2. Hope you are taking lots of photos.

  3. Way to go. Talk the talk and walk the walk. I am so proud.

  4. Wish I was with you! And do you still have that phone number?

  5. We just got instructions and what the hand signals mean

    no GA agenda tonight

    Working group suggest Occupy Halloween

  6. Please read CA Freeb comment above. Living in Canada, I can attest to its truth, and it is absolutely outrageous. USA is one of only 2 countries (the other being Eritrea) in the world that taxes on the basis of citizenship, even if the person is born outside USA to American parents, and has never lived in US and has never affirmed that citizenship. The penalty under the so-called amnesty program is about 25% of the foreign account (even if a cent of tax is not owed!)

    UsA is trying harder every day to join the ranks s of banana republics.

    • I’m sorry, I haven’t had time to read that, but if CA Freeb is saying something that should get our attention, he/she should email the OWS think tank at OWSthinktank@gmail.com
      I apologize for not reading this earlier.

    • We’re quickly succeeding.

    • I’m aware of that tax issue. Many people who live abroad give up their U.S. citizenship for that reason. It’s a darn good reason.

    • ghost, it is ten thousand dollars per year for every year you did not file an FBAR. This is not about taxes as FBAR is not taxes. No one I know even knew about an FBAR at all until the week before the so called “deadline” never heard of it. It’s a penalty grab and the WSJ and “The Hill” have touted this as going after “tax cheats” that is total b.s. FATCA is the next insult we will get. If you have the right to checking on your foreign spouses account the U.S. is bullying foreign banks into giving the IRS your foreign spouses private banking info.That is even when not one red penny was made in America, by an American. If they refuse due to their own countries privacy laws? The bank gets a 30 percent penalty on ALL U.S. holdings. The result? Some banks around the world are getting rid of all their U.S. holdings…my husbands company just did. That means less people investing in America. They might catch a few big fish with this but, they are harming and penalizing innocent people all over the world with this ham fisted approach. It’s not about “taxes” Nobody goes to Canada to get away from taxes. Do not make me laugh. We owed the U.S. zero due to the tax agreement between the two countries. Now my foreign spouse and child are dragged up in this mess. I am a liability to them because I’m American. What to do? Renounce my country or protect my family? That is the position we are in now. The embassy in Toronto is so backed up there is a public meeting Oct 20 to discuss renouncing. State as one embassy worker told me is “not too happy about this”

      • Unfortunately, there is even a catch to renouncing your citizenship. I have heard that one condition for doing so is not owing anying to US government, and so even renouncing your citizenship will not get you off the hook for the penalty.

        I am not an American, but I am really appalled by this. Since, many of the people subjected to this are first and foremost Canadians, and have paid taxes in Canada for years, if not their whole working lives, the Canadian government has a duty on their behalf to protest and stop this money grab.

  7. Have you done the Open Mic? I just got home … are you still at the GA? (thinking)

  8. Exhausted. Will try to update and edit later. Met partition function. Thoroughly enjoyed our conversation.
    Later taters…

  9. RD — In OWS’ demands where they list the elimination of corporate personhood and its ability to give bundles of money to candidates, I hope they will remember to reinstate the McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance legislation. Thanks.


    • The original demand for OWS at Adbusters, July 13, was “No Corporatrocy”

      The first apparent mention was that July 13 blog post by activist group Adbusters (http://r.reuters.com/suc54s) but the idea was slow to get traction. 
      The next Twitter mention was on July 20 (http://r.reuters.com/tuc54s) from a Costa Rican film producer named Francisco Guerrero, linking to a blog post on a site called Wake Up from Your Slumber that reiterated the Adbusters call to action (http://r.reuters.com/vuc54s).

      I like it, and it’s too bad that now no one knows why they are demonstrating.

    • Not quite the interpretation I’m getting. Think really out of the box. What do you do when you are both dependent and abused by someone? To break the cycle, you have to break the dependency.

      It’s all fine and dandy if you were born wealthy or will eat what you kill to get to the top and to hell with the people who are suckers or get in your way. But what if all you want is a job you love, a nice house, affordable health care and a greener planet and the hyenas keep waiting to deflesh your bones?

      It’s an interesting movement but I think it would be incorrect to think they are naive or gullible. True, they have bitten off a lot more than they should be able to chew but they are not kidding around and I have the feeling that they are getting some very expert advice. (And I don’t mean from Obama)

  10. Yves has some really good clips of Dylan Ratigan speaking with David DeGraw from OWS and William Black on prosecuting the banksters.

    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/dylan-ratigan-on-the-political-efforts-to-hijack-occupywallstreet.html

  11. RD it’s amazing you are there. Amazing. Brava to you.

    • It is amazing. But I couldn’t do it without all of you. no,seriously. This has been a rough year but you guys have helped me more than you could ever know. You are my sunshine.

      • I feel I owe you a great deal. In ’08, when things were pretty low, you were here with a good home for lots of us. I appreciate that more than I can tell you. Thanks very much!

        • Likewise. I learned a great deal here and by reading here and across the web, put together my doubts, reservations and something’s-not-right-here into a semicoherent whole.

        • Yes, RD. I feel as Ralph does about you, and The Confluence. It reminds me of when I was little in Jr. High. Out here on the west coast protesting ran high mostly anti-Vietnam in the 70’s. Haven’t seen anything like this in many years. I read a piece by Chris Hedges over at Adbusters — he nailed it. It’s here: http://www.adbusters.org/blogs/adbusters-blog/best-amoung-us.html

          You know RD, it’s our generation that has gotten the biggest screwover by corporate. It really is. And because they screwed us? The more I think about it, we would have been paying the Social Security for the kids coming up under us. I feel like the whole country is going under, no kidding. Scary times for all. Ralph that video above is really telling. Anyway, RD, be careful — but if anyone could be there, and be at an open mic I’d sure want that to be you, no kidding.

  12. “The divine feminine discussion group will be held tonight for females and female identified individual.”

    Crikeys, Am I a Neanderthal? am I the only one who flashed on
    Eric “I want you all to call me Loretta” Idle ?
    Sorry. Really sorry

    • There is a segment of the left that makes fine-grained distinctions in identity. I sometimes lose their train of thought too. Yet they are also part of the 99%.

    • Rangoon, since there is a “loretta” in my own family who is near and dear to me, I have a bit of a different outlook on this. I think it’s a positive step if a women’s caucus develops, though I don’t really like “red tent” feminism.
      There’s one thing the GA does that I think is really terrific. They practice something called a “progressive stack”. That is, when the individual members of the GA get up to speak, they are ordered by disadvantaged demographic groups first. Females and minority voices get to go first. I like this for two reasons 1.) while these groups may have different perspectives on the issue, the fact that they go first puts the obligation on them to address their issues in a way that affects everyone. and 2.) You start to see those people as voices of authority, which is where the current system has broken down.
      In the GA last night, there was an equal mix of male and female voices. The primary facilitator was a female and she had a very commanding voice. Note that they are facilitators, not leaders. In this movement, we are all leaders. It is our responsibility to act and to find other people who want to act with us on a vision and goal.
      Having gone to a very weird, offbeat, experimental middle school in upstate new york for three years, I get this model. My teachers were also my facilitators and I had the luxury of consulting who I wanted for instruction and they in turn let me have the freedom to find other students to work on the projects that interested me. I credit my unorthodox point of view to them. I’m very comfortable being part of something and not necessarily the leader of something. I love to collaborate not direct.
      There is a danger with this though. You have to develop an internal discipline to make sure you carry through and are rigorous. Otherwise, things you should attend to might be pushed aside for things you would rather neglect. The OWS occupation in Zuccotti park learned that early when they realized that if they didn’t keep the park clean and organized, they were in danger of losing the space.
      So, where was I?
      Oh, yeah, I love the Lorettas and am glad to welcome them to our team.

  13. One bit of positive news for an Occupy group, the one in my hometown has generally not been harassed by authorities and was allowed a camping permit through December 31st.

    http://www.wdrb.com/story/15707541/occupy-louisville-hunkers-down-for-long-term

    Surprisingly the above report (about the most extensive and neutral in our local media) is from our local Fox syndicated shows affiliate (they also showed the international footage with a marked lack of Fox news buzzwords- quite neutral again, pretty much just let the images and protestors speak for themselves)

  14. Veal? Are you kidding me? You lost me RD. If the brutality inflicted on animals (esp. veal) in the name of greed can be brought to the fore in some small way through OWS, that is a very positive thing. It’s been nice reading your blog – that is all.

    • yes, veal.
      And fois gras too.

      Of course, if you *want* to drive away the people who want to help you in you struggle against Wall Street, then keep the sanctimony going.

    • PalmTree, you and RD are both the 99%. Do you think the Wall Street fraudsters give a fig about this issue? Stop looking down or sideways. Look UP. That’s where the problem is.

      • Hear, hear!

        Privatize religion. That includes your dietary restrictions.

        • Best not to rub either side’s nose in either side.

          99% can’t afford foie gras anyway.

          • It’s been two years since I had fois gras and I can’t even remember the last time I had veal. It would be incorrect to assume that just because some of us like these things that we can afford to eat them all of the time. But it would also be incorrect to make those of us who like them feel guilty about liking them or being able to afford them on special occasions.
            We don’t all share the same attitudes about food. I happen to like to eat animal products. My ancient ancestors did too. They didn’t worry about the ethics of their caloric intake. And just because we are evolved doesn’t mean we have to give up meat. Sure, I would prefer that my veal or medium rare lollipop lamb chops came from an animal that has not been abused and that the goose who provided the liver had a weight problem. But my intake of these things is so infrequent that I don’t feel bad about indulging. If there were a shortage of these animals, I’d be concerned. I don’t eat chilean sea bass or other endangered fish. But fois GRAS with chocolate and pears? Divine. I salivate just thinking about it.

  15. 11/11/11 is Veteran’s Day in the US and Remembrance Day in Canada. If OWS tries to do something else on that day they’re just playing into the Tea Party’s hands. Even a schlub like me can make that “coincidence” sinister.

    I hope OWS moves the date or tries to tie into the existing commemorations.

    • AND it’s a day that many people around the world will have off. Armistice Day, if I’m not mistaken. We will probably have the next Monday off.
      I tried to schedule a difference idea earlier this year with my run for the employable and suggested that we do it on Labor Day. There were similar complaints: It’s too hot, too many families will be on vacation, yadayadayada.
      Look, for any day on the calendar, there will be an inconvenience to someone. Pick a day. People will have prior engagements, that’s the day they’re getting their teeth cleaned, their sister’s brother in law’s nephew’s cousin twice removed is having a bar mitzvah, it’s the high holy day of the Church of the Oak Tree Dwellers.
      You know what Veteran’s day and Remembrance day means to most Americans and Canadians? A three day weekend.

  16. I can dig it. ;-)

  17. Many many OWSerfolk really need to exchange personal contact information with eachother so they may continue conversating with eachother between OWSer events. Productive OWSer downtime, as it were. Information can be spread slowly and deeply, with time to be considered even as it is spread. After work I will offer a few (very few) thoughts and links about people who have been working on parallel
    economic tools and systems. I hope Riverdaughter decides to open a thread or two specifically for the purpose of people offering their best suggestions for books/links/sites/etc. for creative parallel economic thinking and why they think those sites are good ones for that purpose.

    • You know what? I thought of a little meme which I will launch to let it either fly or die.

      “We are the OWSerfs”.

  18. Okay, its after work. Someone named Catherine Austin Fitts has spent several years doing deep and hard thinking AND working about
    how groups of people in regional localities can work their way out of the economic problematrix which surrounds and entraps them (us). She had been fairly high up in President Dubya’s HUD until she developed methods to unearth and trace the massive extent of organized fraud within and against HUD. At which point the Bush Administration drove her out. She began thinking about the economic masters who control moneyflows and powerflows, and how to choke off those moneyflows to break those powerflows in order to break the power of the economic masters over particular groups of people.

    To give a flavor of her writing I will offer a little cutpaste in a subsidiary comment below this one so as to excape the ugly icons and the herky jerky jumpscreen effect.

    • Here is that cutpaste. . . . .
      ” July 24th 2006, 11:50 [PST] – The day after 9-11, a person whom I respect and care about a great deal said to me, “George Bush was anointed by God for a time such as this.” He then asked me what I thought. I said that I thought that the Bush family was anointed by financial fraud, narcotics trafficking, and pedophilia. Stunned, he said, “If that is true, then it’s hopeless.” I replied that things were far from hopeless, but that for me solutions started with faith in a divine intelligence rather than affirming a dependent relationship with organized crime. ”

      She writes pretty good and tought, doesn’t she?

      • Yes, she makes a point of her belief in God. I will accept that to get the benefit of her thinking. Here is the article that cutpaste came from.

        http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0609/S00358.htm

        She refers to the financialist elite and its organized fraud rackets as the “tapeworm economy”. She offers examples and advice on how people in localities can learn “how money works”, how to lead money around by the nose, and how to keep wealth and money circulating laterally within a regional-local society while keeping it away from the financialist crimelords and fraudlords she came to know so well by studying their behavior during her tenure at HUD. Here is a startoff wiki about her and her work. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Austin_Fitts

        There are some other pepeople doing their own work in this area, but I won’t keep listing stuff unless Riverdaughter invites other people to do the same.

        • What is it you’re asking for? A new thread dedicated to posting ideas, solutions, studies on how “to keep wealth and money circulating laterally with a regional-local society etc”?

          I could do that. What would you like to title that post?

          • You know . . . I’m not exactly sure what I’m asking for. I feel as semi-formed as OWS must have felt in its first days.

            In general, I am thinking of a thread devoted to some of the “how do we survive or even modestly prosper” questions you have begun asking and that some breakout-working groups in the OWS sites have begun discussing . . . things like alternative currencies and so forth.

            I might title such a thread ” Tools for mass economic rebellion and diffuse economic resistance.” It might be somewhat in the spirit of The Whole Earth Catalog when it was first being pulled together. If I have even been clear enough about the the concept, then you or other readers here might have far better titles for it. Or you or other readers might refine it into better concepts whicfh would need better titles.

            Perhaps an inspirational title might be: Spirit of Survival ( and how-to methods to achieve it). But that’s just a stage-one thought.

  19. […] OccupyWallStreet: We have been starving the wrong beast riverdaughter (hat tip Lambert Strether) […]

  20. Check out this post at HuffingtonPost… I think it offers some good ideas:

    “What OccupyWallStreet Should Do Next”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-ford/what-occupywallstreet-sho_b_1015216.html

  21. riverdaughter, your description of how the OWS community is devolving into new-agey fringe groups who are diluting the original economic aspect convinces me that OWS will not last much longer. I’ve seen this happen with many such smaller movements and efforts out here on Oregon. These quasi-religious single-issue hippie people (alternative currency is the answer! no, veganism is the answer!, no wait, New Culture is the answer, no. . . ) infiltrate, disintegrate the original concept and try to push their own agendas. Drug use results in short attention spans, limited to furious non-sensical argumentation and meetings that result in nothing. Actually, they are people perpetually seeking a home, since they work only enough to get by day -to-day. So they show up at any event or situation where they can put up a tent for a few weeks or months.

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