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Standard Disclaimer

This blog was founded by a liberal Democrat who was a supporter of Hillary Clinton. It is not an auxiliary of the Tea Party Movement. It does not espouse the beliefs of the Tea Party, which was funded and created by movement conservative Republicans. The founder does not support Sarah Palin and in general, would discourage her friends from voting Republican. The founder is an FDR style Democrat in Exile. That does not mean that the founder thinks that demonizing anyone is acceptable behavior. But it does mean that the idea that the left is just as bad as the right is a beautiful theory that has been destroyed by almost 20 years of ugly facts. (Vince Foster killed by lesbian Hillary? Sound familiar?).

In general, if you watch TV news or listen to media pundits on any broadcasting media device on a regular basis, you will probably not feel comfortable here. If you are of a conservative political nature, you will not feel comfortable here. It is not my responsibility to make you feel comfortable. There are other places on the web where you will feel comfortable and you are encouraged to seek them out where you can express yourself without limitations. If that sounds like an ominous warning to some of you who have set up camp here, that because it is intentional.

Carry on.

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65 Responses

  1. That warning goes especially for those people who are trying way too hard to prove something that is demonstrably false after two decades of date.

    Tea Party sympathizers are advised to start their own blog. This blog is not your home away from home.

  2. is it ok to just watch? :mrgreen:

    • Only if you have popcorn. But be warned, the right is very good at what they do. They can pull you in. Their kool-aid is very strong. Or as we used to say back in the day, their kung fu is very strong.

  3. ah!.some good old kung foo.i’ll wear my waders :lol;

  4. I wondered where everyone went. :)

    I thought I asked a really good question down below regarding “cross-hair” vs “surveyor mark” debate. Hope it is okay to bring it up here. I just didn’t get any responses from any of my comments down there.

    “Oh, and they were taken as “cross-hairs” and discussed and commented as such before the killings, meaning well before Palin has now spoken to tell us they are surveyor marks. I just think it would have been good to let us all know that before now when she had the opportunity to let us know that when it was discussed before the elections and in the local and national eye. Anyone know if she issued a twit saying they were surveyor marks back then?”

    • I wrote a rather lengthy response to teresainpa about the map. Personally, I don’t know what the media frenzy looked like because I haven’t watched TV in over a week.
      But that map is indefensible under any circumstances.
      That’s all I’m going to say on the matter. I don’t want to talk about Sarah Palin any more and I don’t want to read any more defenses of her. She had a chance to show her quality in that video she made. And she did.
      And I find her wanting.
      Anybody who tries to convince me that she is a victim of left wingers after that video is wasting their time with me. I know what I’ve seen and she ain’t no Hillary Clinton.

      • Thank you. Makes sense. And good on you for the disclaimer. I know that I am way personally involved, but damn, it just hurts, when you see the comments being made when it is your community: the community of Tucson and the community of how most of us all came together in the first place: pretty much to support Hillary Clinton.

        • Yes, I am very disturbed to see how many commenters are under the misimpression that we are Tea Party friendly.
          We are not. This has been stated several times before over the past two years but it seems to get lost.
          That doesnt mean we want to bash palin. It has been our argument that to bash her as relentlessly as the left has done is stupid and counterproductive. That doesn’t mean we are loyal followers.
          I think we have given the right ample opportunities on this blog to prove their case. They haven’t. I’m very disappointed that some right leaning commenters here have chosen to defend the right wing propaganda artists rather than hold them to a higher standard. Just because the left is out of control on this subject doesn’t make what the right does correct or excusable.
          Shame on any right leaning, conservative commenter here who is not condemning the over the top dehumanization of liberal that has occured in the past twenty years in the strongest possible terms.
          Let this be a warning to commenters: if you haven’t gone out of your way to distance yourself from the people who have made liberals vulnerable to verbal and physical attacks, please leave this blog and don’t come back.
          I mean it.
          I don’t want to hear any excuses any more. I’m tired of defending myself for being a liberal. Im sick of it. The left’s attack on palin does not give you an excuse to not apologize to the rest if us liberals.
          That’s it. If the next comment that comes from your fingers isn’t an apology for the 20 years of over the top demonization of liberals, I will take it as a sign that you are up to no good here at this blog.
          Yes, I am angry. I have the right to be. Now, apologize or Go Away.

          • If the next comment that comes from your fingers isn’t an apology for the 20 years of over the top demonization of liberals, I will take it as a sign that you are up to no good here at this blog.

            RD, who are you speaking to.

          • “I think we have given the right ample opportunities on this blog to prove their case. They haven’t.”

            3W, I’m pretty sure she is referencing that portion of her comment.

          • Hi la-t-da. Good to see you. Hope you’re well as can be given everything. Sending positive thoughts.

          • The left’s attack on palin

            What “left’s attack on Palin”?

            WHO?

            Yeah, yeah, I know Palin claimed she was attacked by unnamed “journalists and pundits”, but where? when? WHO?

            I was in bed post-surgery with nothing to do but watch pundits and journalists until all the TV stations went off the air, and I never heard Palin attacked by anyone.

            Anyone who claims the left is attacking Palin is buying into the right wing narrative.

            IMO, there are two separate issues here, 1) Did the guy who shot Gifforts do it because of Palin 2) Is there a connection between vitriolic political rhetoric and the current unprecedented level of vandalism and death threats (Think: the Knoxville church killing where the shooter said ‘liberals should die’).

            The right wing talking points are trying to conflate 1) and 2) , and say if you think toxic political rhetoric can lead to political violence, you automatically have to believe that Palin caused the Gifford shooting, too. Clearly that would be an extreme position since we don’t know anything about it yet. But that’s a disingenuous and mendacious portrayal of the liberal discourse that I have seen, because you can believe #2 (which I just came up with a specific example of off the top of my head), without believing #1.

          • What attack? Now you’re just being disingenuous. Dr Violet Socks can help answer your question?

            Palin (and Clinton) obsessives suddenly discover that violent discourse is a bad thing

          • Nijma, as I have stated elsewhere, I haven’t watched TV or listened to radio in the past week. As I understand it from other people who have, the left has gone on a feeding frenzy about sarah.
            But that is not my point.
            Here is my point:
            There are way too many people who are commenting on this blog who think this blog is Sarah Palin, or right wing or Tea Party friendly and I am here to correct that misunderstanding.
            I don’t want to read another comment in defense of sarah or the right wing or Beck or Limbaugh or “they aren’t really that bad, they get a bad rap”. That shit has got to stop.
            Since I haven’t been exposed to the media frenzy, I can say that this comes from being a member of a hated group for almost 20 years. Liberal is now a dirty 7 letter word, so much so that now liberals call themselves progressives to make them sound more like Teddy Roosevelt. I’ve gotten menacing stares from my sister’s more conservative friends at picnics. I’ve been laughed at, derided, and ridiculed.
            Enough.
            No one from the right is allowed to use this blog as a platform for right wing aplogia. If you want a sympathetic ear, for godssakes, go hang out with that Pam Geller person.
            Don’t do it here because I don’t buy it.
            The right had a field day with the Clintons. I WITNESSED it and it was beyond disgusting, disruptive, damaging to our national security and dangerous precedent in an effort to take a sitting president out of action.
            Don’t ANY of you try to tell me that the right’s shit doesn’t smell.
            That goes for particularly for Mary and other right leaning commenters who have decided to squat here for awhile.
            You know who you are. What’s more, *I* know who you are.
            Go home.

          • Huh?
            That’s no “left wing attack on Sarah Palin”. In fact, she seems to have sipped the right-wing kool-aid.

          • Nijma, Are you referring to Violet’s post? or to one of the comments here?

          • [Deleted comment for inappropriate attack]

          • Except Barack Obama is NOT on the left.

          • Angela, myiq is certainly no misogynist! You are accusing the wrong guy in that department.

          • Oops original went away. Duh…

      • I’m with you on that, RD.What sympathy I may have had for her is now gone.

    • @la-ti-da, I left a link for you on the other thread.

  5. I have a small, flaccid penis. (edited for physiological accuracy)

    • I’m afraid you’re on the wrong blog.

      Oh, and Sly called. He wants his character back. :razz:

  6. @La-t-da: Is your signature emblem what I think it is?

    “In brightest day, in blackest night…” :)

    If yes: Alan, Hal, Guy, John, or Kyle?

    I still think Alan is best–you can’t beat the original. :D

  7. Well – from my perspective this all started with Bill Clinton. The right was so upset/shocked that GHWB lost that election they just could not get past it. At the time I used to refer to those people as Bush-Humbugs. The hatred-obsessed-witchunting-virtriolic-innuendo-evil that came from the right was like nothing EVER seen before in politics. It has never been the same sense… Period.

    After that, it all went even further downhill (some might say a really bad run of luck) – Bush v. Gore made the left feel they had a legitimacy issue, and they got about as nasty as the right had with the Clintons… then of course, now you have Obama, and quite frankly he had EVERY opportunity to bring the country together (79% approval!!) – but as we have seen, a less than one term Senator really cannot live up to his campaign promises, so the right sees weakness/inexperience and attacks (and BTW – he is weak).

    I agree at one time the Right was much crazier than the left, (progressives) but now, they’re pretty equal. It’s going to take some amazing politician (Charisma, Brains, AND Experience all in one?) to right this ship…. maybe never.

    You’re also right about the word Liberal. Conservatives have vilified the word in such a way, it’s like being called a Pedophile (Eww – no one wants to be one of those!) – I’m waiting for them to put us on a list that you can access over the internet or on your iPhone (probably with crosshairs).

    This is why 2008 is so important. If we had elected a REAL Liberal, an EFFECTIVE liberal, we could have walked proud – the word could be dusted off and polished because Liberal policies could prove to be effective to our society. Well, we all know how that ended. POOF! – Gone. All for the sake of the word Progressive. Well, good luck with that.

    I would like to see a real LIBERAL party (it doesn’t look like the Dems are going to give up Progressive anytime soon) that shows society as a whole Liberals aren’t a bunch of wackos, but working class people – promoting working class solutions – looking out for other working class people. The investment class has all the means to protect itself, and those that can’t or won’t help to produce have a bare bones welfare network (I know it’s not much but it’s something) to help them until they figure it out – or don’t.

    Where am I going to find THAT party?… that’s why I come to the Confluence. I don’t always agree with you guys, but I have that one common thread that brings me here.

    thanks.

    • 100% agreement. +10000 and where can we all sign up? The politics of all sides suck but I do care very much about the policies. The only way to win the people in the street is with good policy.

    • I am sorry, but I just don’t believe the word Liberal has been villified in such as way by the conservatives, that it is like being calles a Pedophile. I mean I know the conservatives hate Liberals but that is mostly about how they want to keep power for the rich and white man. However I refuse to believe that it is impossible for Liberals to stand their ground against the crazy conservatives. Sure there will be death threats but you should try being a feminist, you get death threats and are hated by both the left and the right.

      Maybe the reason I just don’t see this dehumanization of liberals is because I am not American and have never lived there. But I really do believe that the hatred for Liberals, is just about politics and power. Maybe, just maybe, if Liberals use as much energy as they use on hating women, dehumanizing women, claiming feminist have all the power ( yeah right, funny how we are so powerful but we have yet to eradicate rapes), defending rapist, maybe if they used all this energy to stand their ground against conservatives, then maybe you could say the left is not as bad as the right. It is just about power for the left.

      Yes Sarah Palin is no Hillary Clinton. But it seems the liberal men all wanted to point that out, the moment they needed help to defeat Palin in 2008. Before that they were all about how, Hillary is such an evil bit*h. They even went to the length of bringing up the false rape kit smear, even Mr anti- bullshit Jon Stewart was busy showing his faux outrage at the rape kit smear.

      • “Sarah Palin is no Hillary Clinton”

        Yes, that’s all there is to it. She’s no Hillary Clinton. That’s what this all boils down to. Sarah gas hitched her wagon to Glenn Beck’s star. And as long as she’s hanging with him, she’s no one I look up to.

        She’s not a demon. She didn’t invent the right wing hate machine. But that hate machine us out there and she’s part of it. She joined of her own voilition. No one forced get into it.

        And now we all know exactly what she is willing to do.
        She’s no better than Obama and his golden horde of assholes.

        Conservative leaning commenters should stop making excuses for get now or go away.

        • If you want to believe it’s the right who’ve made “Liberal” a dirty word that’s your prerogative, but IMO (and experience) you’re simply mistaken. In fact it’s all about machismo, and it was the strutting, testosterone-addled Che wannabes of the mid/late 60s who got that ball rolling. Todays Progs are simply their equally testosterone-addled political heirs.

          Btw, as nearly as I can remember. only Wes Clark had the cojones to claim the Liberal mantle in 2003/2004, and in a confrontation with Bill Maher not only did Wes proudly identify as Liberal, he went on to put the word in its historical and philosophical context in as eloquent and erudite a political speech as can possibly be imagined. (And don’t ask for a link because I’ve tried Googling it several times since then with no luck atall. What a surprise…)

          So you can call yourself a Prog if you want. It is after all your choice and your blog. Me, I’m with Wes, but then I’ve always loved a good fight, and us Clarkies got used to being vilified as right wingers a loooooong time ago…

          • You haven’t been paying attention, have you?

          • As a matter of fact I’ve been paying very close attention, and I find your patronizing tone to be offensive in the extreme. Care to elucidate?

          • I would certainly rather have Clark as Prez than Obummer. :)

            Yes, the Che-wannabes and their heirs did make and do make themselves insufferable. It was that insufferability that made me vote Green instead of holding my nose and voting for Obummer in 2008.

            However, the pseudo-leftist @$$holes do not have wealthy patrons willing to spend large sums of money to enable them to do nothing but spew propaganda at a monetary loss to their patrons. [Even Glenn Beck, if I am informed correctly, loses money for Murdoch.]

            The pseudo-Left is obnoxious and evil, but it does not have a Pseudo-Left-Wing Noise Machine to turn that obnoxiousness and evil up to 11 the way the Right has the Right-Wing Noise Machine.

            THAT is the crucial difference between the two.

            Selah.

          • LandOLincoln @ 12:07: “As a matter of fact I’ve been paying very close attention, and I find your patronizing tone to be offensive in the extreme. Care to elucidate?”

            Thank you. I meant it to be offensive.

            If you had been paying attention, you would have noticed that this is specifically an FDR-left-liberal site and specifically and repeatedly stated to be such. Riverdaughter has probably lost count of the number of times she’s had to explain this to the dim of wit. Neither the frontpagers nor the commenters here–other than the trolls, of course–refer to themselves as “progressives.” The progs are the little boyz and the botgirlz at Kos, DU and such.

            Capiche?

  8. Am I in moderation?

    • So are you going to leave me in the spam filter all night, or what?

      I don’t appreciate being categorized as a Palinista, especially since I met some of youse guys in Denver.

  9. Honk!
    I don’t recognize what used to be my party. First it was taken over by misogynists. I guess that’s what happens when the leader is an open misogynist. Then it turned into an authoritarian crony capitalist administration.
    It will take an extraordinary liberal leader to lead us out of this mess, but that isn’t possible while BO is at the helm.
    And from that memorial rally, It’s pretty clear to me that he is eager to campaign for a 2nd term. He won’t walk away from all that adulation.

  10. Sorry I just don’t buy the “Left is as bad or worse than the Right”. It. Just. Isn’t. True. I live in Oklahoma and it doesn’t get much worse than that for a Lib. I am a damn Liberal and am proud of that. I will not believe that we are equivalent to the Righteous-Wing intimidators until you show me proof and make it something other than a 60’s era incident or something other than a faux-liberal said or did ie: Obama. Show me a liberal equivalent to Rush, Beck et. al. and show me the incidents attributed to them and the atmosphere they have cultivated.

    I’ll give you plenty of time. Please don’t be obtuse.

    • You are obviously free to believe whatever you do and, since I don’t walk in your shoes, I can’t say you’re wrong.

      But, in my case, I just don’t have those issues with being a known liberal in a conservative state. Therefore 2% less evil is still too evil in my opinion.

      • I not advocating 2% less evil. Don’t be obtuse. Show me where liberals are anywhere close to 98% as evil as the intimidators. I’ll wait.

        • How about the fact that the “left” is currently conducting 2 wars, using drones to kill citizens (not soldiers), killing American citizens at will, operating Gitmo, fighting DOMAs in the courts, bailing out the banks and fucking the middle class.

          How’s all that working for you?

          • Now you are being obtuse. What is this left you are talking about? OBAMA! Are you kidding me? Either you are in denial or you are being obtuse.

          • I’m sorry you have proved my point for me. The conservatives got us to this point and yes Obama is continuing it. I feel sorry for you that you can not figure this out OBAMA IS. NOT. A. LIBERAL. Come back when you actually have something.

          • Don’t feel sorry for me, feel sorry for yourself. Obama is the head of the Democrats. The Left voted him in & the Left is making excuses for him and/or ignoring what he is doing, so the LEFT is just as responsible as he is. And they WILL ALL VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN in 2012. The sorry excuse that “he isn’t the Left” is BULLSHIT — that is what the LEFT HAS BECOME. You were the one that said show me how the Dem. are 98% evil and you don’t like it because you can’t handle it. THIS IS WHAT THE LEFT.

          • I do feel sorry for you you need pity. Like I said come back when you have something.

          • native1 … we would appreciate it if commenters refrain from moderating our threads.

            Consider this notice: We’ve put people in time out for doing this. And we will again.

          • I’m sorry I didn’t realize I was “moderating”. I wasn’t saying she couldn’t come back or should leave if you misunderstood this I am sorry. I will be quiet from now on.

          • Just please don’t invite our commentors to “Come back when you actually have something.”

            We can do that if it’s necessary. And it certainly was not (necessary) in that case.

    • The characters Angela is talking about aren’t real liberals.

      Let’s not forget, a lot of people who are basically conservative, with all the mental baggage that worldview carries, but aren’t crazy enough for the GOP any longer, have migrated into the Democratic Party.

  11. Apparently, I haven’t posted on TC from my old tower PC since I decided to change my TC name.

    Also, the 10:01pm comment was meant to nest under Angela’s 9:43pm comment.

    As for “The Left is just as bad as the Right”–as I’ve said before, when I see a Left-wing equivalent–in size, in influence, and in subsidization–of Faux Noise and hate radio, then I will believe in the equal evil of Right and Left. Until then, talk to the hand.

    • This is what I am saying. I agree. I am tired of false equivalencies, which is all we seem to be getting. Real Liberals have lost it again by allowing the Right to yell “you are as bad as we are” then trying to outdo the right in proving the point. The only thing is they can’t prove it because it ISN”T TRUE!

  12. When I was sixteen my mom found out I was gay and sat me down for a talk. She wanted to know what girls do together in bed. After explaining, she said “That gives me the hee-bee-gee-bees!” I have never used this expression to describe my feelings about anything, especially anything related to sex until one day in 2008 I stumbled on a site with a picture of Sarah Palin and her entire family. It gave me the hee-bee-gee-bees. This is not about scary lady parts – I like lady parts, especially the scary ones. It’s about something else. Palin has a discernible creep factor. So does Obama, but his is obvious and familiar to me. Her’s is uncanny.

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