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Orin Hatch is on now complaining.
OT but appropriate anyway:
Please stop the world, I’d like to get off now….
Link the CSPAN feed.
I can’t, I’m at work, but thanks for keeping us updated SOD, you rock!!
Yes, stop the world with this new ‘FeMANist’ bull, I can’t take any more… !
SOMEONE WAKE ME UP AND TELL ME IT IS ALL A BAD DREAM! Why aren’t little girls being woken up by the likes of SCHOOL HOUSE ROCK…Sufferin Till Suffrage & Sufferin Till Suffrage & Sufferin Till Suffrage…
From the article:
A barbie covered up in a burkha is supposed to tell women they can be whatever they want to be. Right.
“You can tell it’s Mattel, it’s subjugation.”
Yes, you too can aspire to sub-human chattel status.
aspire? you mean we’re not born that way?
yes, you too can be a 21st century slave.
In a culture where women’s bodies are never seen, how will that work for girls to have Barbie be the example?
Be whomever you want to be….as long as you wear this costume that keeps your scary lady-body self covered up, to protect us “rational” men from being uncontrollably seduced by you. Oh yeah, and so we can keep you from driving, or working except as domestic slaves, and so we can continue to stone you for doing what men do with impunity.
Ugh.
Did you know they added the “Conscience Clause” protections to the House bill?
oh, great imaginary beings of the multiverse!! save us from the idiots that make you up in their imagine then demand the rest of us follow you!
The republicans are using Obama’s pro-life comments.
What a friend we have in Jesus…
(Meaning our 21st century Messiah, it’s a joke, not intending to offend the devout.)
Obama’s comments aren’t pro-life, they are pro-”punishing a woman with a baby” –
I was referring to his speech ever on healthcare before Congress.
Yes I knew what you were referring to… I was being sarcastic about his pro-life pandering in terms of his previous “punishing” comment… if you look at it through that lens, his anti-abortion rhetoric in this healthcare debate stems from wanting to punish women…
sorry it didn’t translate
Crazy ass Republicans piss me off……….
crazy ass democrats piss me off worse.
I wonder if we can find someone who will propose that we who oppose elective wars no longer are required to fund Iraq. Last I heard the majority of Americans don’t want that either.
Can they add a few more abrevviations to that womens name phD, CEO of the alphabet…..
Pro-life people just drive me crazy … Johanns is saying protohumans are citizens … what a nutcase
citizens of stupakistan
I can’t watch, I’m not hooked up. BBoxer just sent an email saying the Stupak amendment is not in the Senate version and the repugs are trying to get it in. Is that right? She is asking for petition signers.
Here is her petition page:
http://action.barbaraboxer.com/page/s/fightforwomen?source=ffwh_bulletins
Ayup! Isn’t that the BOLD truth above.
How can you say a fertilized egg = a living, breathing, talking, walking human with a straight face?
this man must be confused in restaurants … let’s see, scrambled eggs, isn’t that the same as fried chicken?
Baked chicken I think.
About half of fertilized eggs are XY, that’s how.
It’s too bad these people don’t feel the same moral need to protect the innocent child after its left the uterus. Considering the zeal with which they have gone after expanding schip or expanding grants for secondary education. It’s pretty apparent that zygote rights are all they are for.
Franken is on
good, i’ll put the volume back up … god, i’m glad I don’t live in nebraska any more … they only elect nutterz from that state
of course, Louisiana has anutter nutter David Vitter … blech!!!
Is he saying anything to redeem himself from his cowardly statements about the House bill being a huge step forward for women?
He was emphasizing the “domestic violence is no longer a pre-existing condition.”
This was from yesterday… Wyden-Reid-Baucus amendment… looks like they got Wyden on the unity train…
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/68897-sen-wyden-wins-big-healthcare-concession
?? Now why would I want to give up my present employee-partially-paid-for plan for one that covers less (no women’s preventive care) and doubtless costs more? Is that what they mean?
…expand coverage to more than 1 million. Great. We have at least 49 mill not covered now. Many more with inadequate coverage.
Blanche Lincoln is on now. She’s voting to move it to debate.
well, I imagine she’s going to be well rewarded, I know Mary Landrieu was
She said “I’ve resisted extremist messages from the left.” {{snort}}
wanting all Americans to have access to affordable healthcare, how extreme
Gosh, back in the good Ole days they would want to be declaring that they wanted ‘
people to know they actually were for the good of the working people and that they cared. Today, caring is so NOT in.
Are these people required to be boring? Even Franken was a snooze-fest. Blanch sounds like she’s talking from a computer-generated script.
It’s not easy being animated as you read your notes.
lol
This is just a procedural vote anyway. It’s all BS.
OT: the nutroots reaction to Bill Clinton not going to the Arkansas Free Clinic was well..nuts. Lots of CDS and trying to pin the current healthcare mess on Bill.
If Olbermann wants to do it, it can’t be a good thing.
yeah, I just thought it was so laughable to blame the current mess on Bill. First of all, this is Obama’s mess to own, not the Clintons. Second of all, Bill has been so minimalist in his comments about Obamacare, sticking only to the politics of it rather than the policy merits of it, and after the dirty game Axelrod and the press played on Bill in 2008–well even if Hillary weren’t part of the Administration, Bill would still have a helluva time if he was perceived as blocking Obama.
Plus I believe Bill has a vested interest in it.
I saw that today, I couldn’t believe it.
I went to FDL to read the story because I saw the title:
President Clinton to Skip Arkansas Free Clinic, Blames Olbermann for Politicizing Event
Here is the first couple of comments.
jeez… will a few people go over and defend President Clinton. I do it all the time and I am about to blow a gasket at how stupid they are. I truly freaking hate liberal democrats AND I AM ONE.
brace yourself… the actual thread gets much stupider
I wonder how many of those nicks are KO’s own sockpuppets?
Well, what do you know. My old user name is still valid at FDL.
Not so for kosshole. .
Looks like I’m banned there too now, my comments keep vanishing.
Ha ha.
Bob Corker is up … he’s playing the they’re going to wreck your medicare card!
the Republicans are tag teaming on scaring seniors on medicare
I think Levin made it clear that he was just voting to open the debate … they all say they’ve got problems with the bill the way it stands now … is that employment insurance or for real, I wonder?
I don’t even know why they’re going through all this blathering nonsense. They already know how they’re voting. Just get it over with.
Hey guys!
I will try to watch along as long as possible.
I just remembered why I despise Republicans, as much furious as I am with Democrats.
SoD,
why did you put up the link? Just to ruin the rest of my Saturday? This is at time stomach churning.
{{{handing MaBlue a bottle of Malox}}}
i had to mute it again … Corker, Brasso, and Johanns are infuriating …
Blech! Anyone else need this bucket?
I’m hopping up and down on one foot, trying to keep my exasperation in line, because I can’t see it. Do something! Sign BB’s petition on keeping Stupak out.
http://action.barbaraboxer.com/page/s/fightforwomen?source=ffwh_bulletins
And tell me what’s going on!
Johanns (R-Nebraska) is giving us an earful about Medicare being evil.
Thanks, WOV
not Medicare, sorry…Medicaid*
Yeah that would be because it covers children AFTER they’ve been actually delivered from the womb.
God, what I wouldn’t give to have a group of people willing to fight these nutjobs instead of pretending the nonsense they spout is actual coherent thought.
Signed.
I can’t sign it… my only hope is that the bill is so bad that democrats can’t vote for it. I think that the whole f*cking reform needs to die so we can get real reform in the future. That is if we ever get a real democrat in the white house again.
These phony back and forths are beyond laughable
Thanks, SOD, that made me laugh.
americans should be forced to watch several hours of this before voting.
Cornyn’s mad because the rules forbid amending without 60 votes after this procedural vote.
they gotta win one for the gypper
If that is true, then this must be the big fight.
Coburn: “care delayed is care denied”
*eyeroll*
Yeah we are there already DUMBASS
Harkin said something earlier this week about cloistering them all there if the repugs attempted a filibuster. I think he meant the actual debate of the bill. Right now I am sensing a lot of yadayada and resultant glazed eyeballs. Obama better keep his mitts off of it.
The repubs don’t have enough votes to filibuster.
Hatch must not have practiced reading his lobbyist notes. He mistakenly cited a stat as 29% when it was 29 states.
he’s quoting the Lewin group study
Yes, but you’d think he’d have at least a cursory understanding of the data — or at least enough to know it wasn’t 29%. He’s just reading whatever they told him to read.
he probably put himself to sleep for a split second and went on autopilot seeing a paragraph full of numbers and percent signs
Oh, you meant the socialized med quote was from the Lewin study.
I just have it running in the background — wasn’t watching
Well, the insurance companies will be very “social” after this! Another win-win for them.
Did Alexander just call Medicaid a “Medical Ghetto?” Oh dear Geebus!
I couldn’t believe my ears. and he kept saying it like Ghe-Toe
he has just insulted half his constituents who are the rural poor on medicaid. I am sure they will be thrilled to know what he thinks of them.
medical ghetto? wtf?
WTH is right.
That’s right, all those nice poor people wouldn’t be there if we didn’t set up the barricade.
and about 17 million of those poor people are childen-but hey they’ve left the uterus so what does it matter that the program these asshats have relegated them to is the equivalent of a ghetto- right?
right… only the unborn and grown men have rights in Stupakistan.
Schumer: “when Democrats fight to strengthen Medicare…”
hahahaha! when Democrats fight… is that like when pigs fly?
Any filibuster is at the hands of the Dems.
Or Centene.
or the liebermonster
or Obama
Klobuchar just defended the length of the health insurance bill by saying… Bush’s 3 page Tarp bill didn’t work out so great, so take that!
I too find the argument that the bill is too long ridiculous.
That was the filibuster tactic the repug were threatening – to read the combine house and senate stacks of around 4000 pages.
I don’t think the number of pages is a ridiculous issue; simplicity is the mother of good design. Those multitudinous pages are rife with the opportunity for pork and those sentences and phrases that screw us.
So a much shorter bill will do?
HR 676 would do.
Not because it’s short though. It’s because of the content.
also because the content is accessible.
and there’s no pork in it.
You’l never avoid a legislative language in a legislation. If Congress were to get serious about HR 676, you would see it balloon.
A legislation like this that include so many other parts of the existing system has to refer to those, cite a bunch of other legislation, paragraphs, and so on.
The problem with any bill is never really it’s length. Moreover, Rep who are whining about the size of the bill now have put up some lengthy bills of their own.
Yep, coordination with things like Vets acts, and agreements with Indian nations, tribes, bands and non recognized groups.
I didn’t say anything about avoiding all legislative language or that hr676 wouldn’t get bigger before it would be in a position to end up passing. But, it started off someplace where people can actually follow what the hell is going on. The bills that the House and Senate started out inflated before the public had a chance, imho.
I personally would like the option of HR 676 and feel that the Republicans are shoving a PRO INSURANCE BILL ON ME! Why bother to elect Democrats if they aren’t going to fight FOR MY RIGHTS!?!
SPAMMYYYYYYYY!!!!!
Lemme out, Goddammit!
sorry. I dozed off. Spammy belched and woke me up though.
we need to stop feeding him that garlic bologna.
I think Spammy is protective of the Big Dawg. He didn’t like the language used against Bill by a bunch of nincompoops.
I do not agree with any of the reasons Repubs/Blue Dogs give for opposing this bill; I just hope they are successful in killing it. Beyond that I don’t think I really care; I think I am going to start looking for a medicine woman. We have a lot of Indian Casinos and Reservations around here; there must be some shamans in the ocotillo somewhere.
Back to the dark ages for US medical care.
Break your neck — get sent home in care of family members. This is cheaper for the Insurance companies –
We are getting a great lesson in what happens when the Corporations rule.
Landrieu = $100 million Louisiana purchase. What might Rep. Grayson call her?
Landrieu = $100 million Louisiana purchase.
What might Rep. Grayson call her?
The guy that replaced Biden isn’t very smart. Neither is the guy that replaced Kennedy. They keep making a lot of mistakes. He forgot cobra as an example … and how expensive it can be when you lose a job. He said if you lose your job you just lose your insurance … completely overlooked cobra.
Bring on Coakley
I don’t find it a compelling argument to vote for a bill because your predecessor died …
Seriously? Geez. On second thought I suppose it’s good to give credit to some that got us to this point. lol
Is calling Medicare and Medicaid “Medical Ghetto” the marching order Republicans received before going to the debate?
yeah, I think that’s it. That and they were saying no one wants to take Medicare and Medicaid patients any more because of the ” biggest deadbeat on the planet” the federal government.
the government is not dead beat, it just doesn’t pay enough. That is why they do not want to take it. Doctors all think they are entitled to get rich no matter what…with rare exceptions.
I honestly hope this bill dies. Single payer is the ONLY money saving solution.
medical ghetto, healthcare gulag… and I think I heard some GOP gasbag say something about this bill putting Medicaid people in jail? I dunno, I was on the phone at that time.
I understand that if you do not purchase insurance you are subject to a fine and the fine is collected through IRS. If you do not pay up, then you are subject to IRS rules that can lead to prison time ala Al Capone et al.
I may be mistaken but my sense was that the line was a metaphor about Medicaid being like jail. I didn’t catch all of it, though.
Oh gawd…now where’s that volume button…
yup … can we get a viagra tax and a hot air tax?
Well he has a point.
So if this bill is introduced as using the House bill HR. 3590,
rather than HR 3962, and both bills become part of the package, and neither side has 60 votes to change the bill, it’s going to be interesting to see how they work your example out.
I just refreshed my screen and realized old Harry is giving us the finger. Did 0 teach him that maneuver?
lolol
great “medical ghetto” Alexander is back on.
Should we start a drinking game every time they use that term?
Good idea.
It’s 11.30 pm here. I’m certain I’ll go to bed buzzed.
Re: Medicare and Medicaid—this is becoming a serious problem. My husband had to have a late night emergency service and our closest emergency room is in Brawley, CA. It is definitely a medicaid ghetto nightmare. You can make fun of it folks but I can tell you that the level of medical treatment is absolutely 3rd world and the place was packed with mostly Hispanics and almost unanimously and obviously poor. Such places can not attract skilled medical doctors or technicians. These are the places and the people who are invisible.
Medicare is also becoming a medical ghetto in our area. The Eisenhower Medical Center which is the largest and most skilled medical center in our area will no longer take Medicare patients. Republicans are not making this up; it is a reality in too many places and most of those places are in the less densely populated areas that tend to be pretty politically red and semi-rural and poor.
they should just call it “third world level of care” then or something. I think Medical ghetto makes it sound phony and just is really jarring to hear them keep saying it when this healthcare reform is (supposed to be) about addressing the unacceptable level of care that we’re already at… the GOP rhetoric totally ignores that.
They’re trying to draw the subconscious line from the “public option” to “welfare.”
Touché.
If those are the only places poor people have to go -then of course they’ll be overcrowded.
The whole point of UHC is to stop the overcrowding by making access to the whole system available to everyone.
The super rich or even simply the well off elderly will always get a fast track, but that doesn’t mean the rest don’t get a decent system either.
It’s like the difference between State University and Harvard. State Universities (such as those in California) are still pretty good (being the equivalent of a national health service). UHC is by no means the equivalent of some ghetto evening school. (in Europe anyway).
good analogy
It could be if they were discussing UHC, but they are not. They are discussing an insurance company bailout instead. Remember?
correct that THE legislation being proposed is an insurance bailout! but there are really two debates going on with the Ds and Rs are talking past each other. 1) one about ANY government involvement in health care
2) and one about the specific legislation that the Ds are trying to pass right now. The Rs are attacking both 1 and 2 when they say “medical ghettos.” The current giveaway to the insurance industry is not worth supporting at all, but I also oppose the GOP’s arguments on the first debate–and that’s where laurie’s analogy comes in.
In our area, the county has opened up the safety net and a friend who is in Real Estate recently had to sign up because she could no longer afford health insurance and the insurance didn’t cover preventive care. So, she joined for a small fee and will finally get her Women’s Health Care issues taken care of.
How Frickin sad that a women in he late forties has to be made to feel bad for trying to care for her Health Care needs in a crappy economy. Why aren’t real stories being told rather,than the false hoods of scaring people about accessing health care with ‘THOSE PEOPLE…THE POOR PEOPLE’.
Funny, how we can send ‘THOSE PEOPLE…THE POOR PEOPLE’ to WAR without giving it a second thought!
If the Senate rule on this is going to be that you must pass any amendment with 60 votes then this is the biggest sham on the planet because they are not going to get 60 votes on any amendment.
They’re really pounding away on the timing of provision implementation.
Gulp!
Cause they are right, you know, things to make your insurance provider happier or not, people have little to do with it.
“healthcare reform” was a trojan horse for health industry giveaway.
spammy got my reply
You folks seem to be under the illusion the Senate is debating Health Insurance “Reform”. It helps to remember they are not.
Oh snap…ur right.
Did I miss Leiberman? Haven’t caught where he’s at on this.
He’s #60 as far as I can see.
Terrific. Another hour of staring at this page and Leiberman.
I believe Leiberman has said he will vote to allow the bill to go forward for debate.
Then they have their 60 votes.
.it’s expected that Lieberman will vote yes, Landrieu and Lincoln were the last two holdouts, so the Dems have their votes to bring the bill to the floor, unless there’s some bizarre upset.
What about Sanders? They have Snowe for sure, so they don’t need him?
Sanders is expected to vote yes
Just last week he was threatening a filibuster! Gah! Way to show backbone from the “independent socialist.”
And the most pressing question of the evening….do they shut their books and go home for the holidays after this vote? or will they keep working?
The sound is all messed up on the CSPAN feed. Anyone else having a super-echo?
Never mind…I switched to RealPlayer and now it works
Baucus on the podium now.
yeah I’m snoozing too.
Dr. Howard Dean: Baucus Bill is Not Reform; Public Option Will Happen
Dean did some very good health-care changes for Vermonters when he was gov. Measures to enable seniors to get home care so they could stay in their own homes — and the costs were cheaper than nursing home care.
But I’d be surprised if we get a public option in this Administration. And I bet Dean is even more p-o’d at 0bama now than when he was shafted after the elections. He should have known not to trust a guy who wants the rules broken for him.
{{{sighs}}}
I’m not sure if I heard the number right, but I heard Cardin say this bill will cover “98% of Americans” when he spoke earlier.
Not until 2014 and hell freezes over.
I think the only big reform that takes place immediately is that you can not be denied insurance due to a pre-existing condition.
No, the “full” scope is not expected until 2019/2020.
Is Reid flipping the bird at women in that pic?
yep
I just talked to my dad, he said he thought that with what was going on with healthcare thing with blocking access for insurance for all abortions and the changes in pap smears and mammograms that it was definitely aimed at not getting good health care for women, he said it was like they were trying to transfer money to keeping men alive …
he’s got two daughters and two granddaughters and I think we’ve finally made him a feminist
go dad!!!
Sending a hug to Dakiinikat’s Dad!
I don’t know him, but I’d hug him too!
Love men, that truly love their wimmin folk! (((Hugging Him)))
The senate bill reforms are scheduled to start in 2014 because that is how they could get the numbers under a trillion $$$$ and under the House bill $$$$. What do you think the American public is going to think when they learn that:
1. They start paying for this “reform” immediately.
2. They do not begin to get the benefit of most of their bargain until 2014.
3. It does not add to the deficit in the first 10 years ONLY because they will be paying for it for 4 years before it takes effect.
4. Congress and the presidente will be collecting money for 3 years that will not be paid out to hc—I am sure they will put that in a lock box somewhere so that it will be available in 2014. roflmao.
There’s a political strategy behind it.
I am sure you have all seen that graphic cartoon about “ordering a swing” and how it goes through all the departments in planning and design you get something that is totally unworkable and not at all what you ordered. That is health care reform American style.
Long live the Republic for which we all stand, shake our heads and sigh.
15 minutes till the vote.
SOD you paint a solid and sure future for us. Wonder if Obiewondermanchild will have to dither around signing it? No. Probably try to figure out how he can jam up the constitution so he can be there for the 2020 rollout.
The vote is starting
What the heck did Dodd just say this bill was?
did he call it this? To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to modify the first-time homebuyers credit in the case of members of the Armed Forces and certain other Federal employees, and for other purpose
who can tell … he’s probably had a five martini dinner with his lobbyist friends
Waiting.
Lieberman just voted “aye” — they have 60
they must’ve threatened his chairmanships again
Olympia “the one lone republican vote” voted “NO”
Specter voted “Aye.”
Aye yi yi, get ready for news coverage saying the Senate bill has passed a major test.
Yep. yet about 10-15 of those voting “aye” want to erode it substantially in both the areas of the public option and choice language.
Too bad. Oh well, it still has a long path to follow before any laws get passed.
60 votes “Aye” 39 “No.”
woo hoo, insurance hell here we come!
Eh, all they’ve done thus far is basically debated on “debating” health care reform. As someone above pointed out there are a whole lot of people liable to vote no without their favorite pet projects being part of the reform package.
Whew! I sure am glad that they got the debate over whether or not to debate over with. Geez. No wonder people think government is a waste.
oh I agree, but the symbolism of “the Dems moving the bill forward” will be milked.
Yeah, but they’ll all look like fools with this I voted against it after I voted for it stuff. Not that they mind looking like fools ordinarily, but….
MA should really jump on this. “You might as well move here, Mitt Care may suck, but it’s inescapable now. If you’re gay, you can at least get married.”
And you can smoke pot without risking jail or a felony record.
Potheads welcome!
Now they go on “holiday” — they’ll be back after Thanksgiving.
The republic is always safer when they’re recessed. Woohoo.
They get more holidays!
they should stay on holiday until 2014, since that is when they plan on doing anything.
Dodd is shameless. This is what they are attempting to do for the first time in this country?
Wow. is this really the first time the Senate voted to discuss a bill?
that’s really sumpthin’
We don’t have to pay these guys overtime for being in session on a Saturday, do we?
Wow, I don’t know how people can sit at a computer station all day. After I stopped hopping, I sat down and my butt is now officially numb. Thanks for the feed, everybody. I’ve got to go and move around.
Does anyone think there are 60 votes to pass that language?
I agree. The last thing they’re afraid of is consequences from the left for passing Stupak. There will be none, and they know it.
Congratulations ladies and gentlemen. Our Senate just spent 10 hours debating about whether to begin debating.
how much is that going to cost?
on cspan 2 (replay of 11/18/09) gore vidal just called Obama “a warlord like his predecessors”
Obama should invite him over for a beer summit, they can bond over his disgusting remarks about Polanski’s victim.
Is “a warlord” a good or a bad thing on the planet where Vidal lives?
That’s disgusting. Sexism is wrong against Palin and okay against Pelosi??
Sexism is wrong and disgusting against BOTH, not one or the other.
it’s gone …
Thank you.
whats gone??
That’s weird, My time is later and I was replying to your comment and my first one got shoved up the line.
Yeah, wordpress gets weird sometimes. Things jump around of their own accord or disappear or disappear and reappear somewhere else. Luckily, not that often.
I wasn’t here, but it sounds like there was a troll bashing inappropriately on Pelosi and they got deleted.
I have to wonder why I’m still getting BO emails about Sarah Palin instead of about health care reform. She is not that big a deal right now. Priorities, people.
I emailed them back and called them a bunch of liars…..I then wrote a tirade excoriating them on leaving out low cost birth control, protecting the conscience clause, and including stupidstupak language in reform…..Palin is the enemy my backside.
hey boogie, I wondered that too.
THE LOUISIANA PURCHASE: $300 MILLION FOR MY VOTE!
ttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/21/AR2009112102272_pf.html
My my, Obama approval rating is below 50% in Iowa. If only if keeps falling, can you say one term lame duck?
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20091121/NEWS/91121005
If it quacks like a lame duck and walks like a lame duck, then it’s Obama.
I was working while all this was happening and was just too stunned to comment. Well, really I expected the crap to pass, but I’m still amazed when they do this to us.
So here’s a question about these bills and what’s likely to be in them. If a state already has some sort of public option or other good measures, say like Dean’s state, will this bill force those states that have better systems to abandon them for the insurance company giveaway?
In other words, is there a state I can move to or do I need to just leave the country all together?
I think it depends whether the state insurance provides the “minimum” requirements and abides by the minimum standards for premium ratios.
I would guess your state could provide BETTER, but not worse minimums.
Hey, guess what? The USDA has prepared tips on turducken safety.
No matter what happens, this is a great country we have here.