Wōden the Wanderer
Those of us who practice that “old-time religion” know that today was named for the Anglo-Saxon god Wōden. He is the pagan god of death, battle, wisdom, discoverer of the runes and leader the Wild Hunt.
Justice Department Plans to Limit Use of State Secrets Privilege
Another weasel-worded “reform” that puts a different color of lipstick on the same pig.
Making forensic science scientific
Establishing national forensic science standards is crucial when evidence determines life or death.
Ahmadinejad urges Obama to see Iran as a ‘friend’
Says he will seek a quick resolution to the case of three American hikers jailed in Iran.
In First U.N. Speech, Obama Says World Challenges Not ‘Solely America’s Endeavor’
Voters in Europe, Africa and Asia express regret for having voted for him.
“I thought he would bring unity and world peace.“
Sarah Palin returns to the podium in Hong Kong
News media left outside during her speech
China announces pledge to curb carbon emissions
President Hu Jintao vows to greatly decrease intensity from country’s economy and invest in green energy
Fertility clinic to couple: You got the wrong embryos
Woman becomes unwitting surrogate for another family.
Video:
Former House Speaker Tom “The Hammer” DeLay shakes his wild thing
SF Giants running out of time
Mathematical elimination approaching fast
Remember:
Yesterday was the Autumnal Equinox. The days will be getting shorter and the nights longer.
"Never hit your grandma with a shovel. You might leave a bad impression."
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Filed under: General
NYT Fishwrap:
Looks like reality is setting in for Mr Hopey-Changey
Digby:
He’s broken so many promises, what’s one more?
(Thanks again for the bang-up job you did helping him defeat that evil Hillary.)
How true. If Obama can break promises on health care, LGBT rights, and torture, surely he should be able to break one on an endless war that we can never win.
A New Bubble Of the Fed’s Creation
So who is borrowing? By and large, it’s not households and businesses, which are reluctant to borrow during a recession. Rather, it’s hedge funds and other investors, who have been using the money to buy stocks, corporate bonds and commodities, driving prices to levels unsupported by the business and economic fundamentals.
Back at the Fed, the attitude has been to welcome anything that strengthens the balance sheets of banks, particularly while they continue to write off billions of dollars in soured loans each quarter. Nor is the central bank in any rush to begin pulling back from its current policies. Citing the mistakes made by their predecessors during the Great Depression and by the Bank of Japan during the “lost decade” of the 1990s, Fed officials are determined not to snuff out the economic recovery by moving too early to raise interest rates and reduce liquidity.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/22/AR2009092203737.html?hpid=topnews
oops, put this link in the wrong place…
They are just “pragmatic adjustments,” doncha see?
People Magazine:
ROFL.
I like Taylor Swift but best dressed? Her love of glitter borders on obssessive.
The Hill:
Woo hoo!
I hope she pushes forward out of self preservation. If we don’t get a decent public option she deserves to be back in the minority party. Delay talked about herding cats, well Pelosi better put some leashes on the dogs.
Wow, I love that illustration. Amazing looking tree. It really puts me in an autumn mood.
I’m sorry about the Giants, myiq2xu.
“The more you suffer, the more it shows you really care.”
Odin lost one eye. So I can’t tell if that is “really” him from the picture. But the tree is gorgeous.
djmm
OMFG! Dr. Grumpy:
ROFLOL!
LMAO.
I am officially living in a disaster area:
(I don’t have a PayPall account for donations, but if you’re interested I’ll give you the phone number to make payments on my tab at the liquor store.)
How about a list of local twelve step meetings?
/Just kidding
Rehab is for quitters
That’s me!
I’m gonna keep on abusing alcohol until I get it right.
Over near us we have the opposite problem. A good portion of Atlanta is underwater. It was less than a month ago that the rails leading to West Virginia were experiencing problems due to excessive rain. Sure wish my side could send some of the rain we are experiencing here some of our wet stuff.
Bunraku from yesterday, Baucus takes on Humana:
http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/22/senate-republican-leader-accuses-democrats-of-muzzling-critics/
Excellent use of our new favorite term “bunraku” WTV!
I’ve created a monster
looks like the UK Telegraph is really on to Obama:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/6221379/The-UN-loves-Barack-Obama-because-he-is-weak.html
They’ve been brutal with him this week. There was something yesterday too about the G-20 thing.
for anyone who reads german – see below…pretty negative article abt Bo, summing up his various areas of failure so far…highlighting his increasing lack of credibility on all fronts and general preference of rhetoric over substance…and this coming from a journalist who was shockingly pro-BO one year ago
http://www.faz.net/s/RubDDBDABB9457A437BAA85A49C26FB23A0/Doc~ED612521C1BF04146823C800880670DBE~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html
Does the word “Shiesse-kopf” appear in the article?
no – it is a well respect newspaper but it is pretty bad….not really any good points they have to say abt the speechsident
speechsident? lol
vivienne, how do you think German election will go — will Merkel’s party win?
tricky one – it will be very close. The growth of Die Linke (the left) which is an assembly of former Eastern German communist and disgruntled SPD (socialist) party goers makes reaching a majority surely more difficult as there are now 5 parties which will get over the 5% hurdle: conservative, socialist, liberals, green and the left usually identified by their party colors: black, red, yellow, green, red.
Merkel aims to form a coalition with the liberals but it is not sure if they will have enough votes. The socialist aim to rule with the liberals and the green party called traffic light coalition – the liberals reject this combination. This leaves red-red-green (the left, socialist, green) which the socialist say they wont support -most people think they will break this promise if they could rule. Then there is Jamaica (black, yellow, green) which the green are opposed to. Finally, if the numbers wont work, we might see a continuation of the grand coalition: conservative + socialist.
Last polls 18/ Sept: conserv (36%), socialist (25%), liberals (13%), the left (11%), green (10%). No more official polls may be released. Polls close Sunday at 6pm – noon EST.
Reliable results tend to be out by 18:15/18:30.
Personally, I hope for black/yellow.
That’s fascinating, the many parties.
Personally, I hope for black/yellow.
Black & yellow, always mellow!
(— The Bee Movie)
The problem with the Liberals (the yellow) is that they are essentially Obamacrats in terms of policy (in other words, generally socially liberal but closer to the U.S. republicans in terms of economic policy, i.e. limited government, very pro-business at the expense of the middle and lower classes, etc.).
In Germany, the Liberals are the furthest to the right in terms of economic policy. All of the other parties that Vivienne mentioned are further to the left.
The upshot is that no matter how you cut it, Merkel will remain Chancellor after the election. The question is whether they they form a new coalition with the Liberals (who are actually more conservative than the Conservatives) or remain in their current coalition with the Social Democrats, who are slightly more, but not much more, to the left of the Conservatives.
Personally, I hope the current Conservative-Social Democrat coalition remains. The U.S. is far enough to the right these days. We don’t need Germany to move that way too.
Here’s a line from the article I quickly translated that sums it up:
“On his European trip in April, Obama sent many people into rapture with his message, translated directly from the U.S. election campaign into international politics, of hope and change. Six months later, disillusionment has set in – among the American people and also, to a lesser degree, all over the world.”
I dont think the comparison with US conservatives works well. While the liberals are pro-business, their leader is openly gay and will likely be the next German foreign minister. Religion/abortion etc are no issues in German politics.
Also social justice has a different dimension in German where everybody (even if you never worked) has health care and university cost in the range of $500 per term.
The problem with the current coalition is that they have fundamentally different views on key issues ie making moving the country forward -regardless which way – is difficult.
The Guardian had a scathing piece about his incompetence yesterday too.
guardian or telegraph??…guardian is left, telegraph is right
Guardian … I read that one too.
d,
When I’m in England, it’s my first choice.
Its’ existence is my empirically-based reason for laughing when people talk about the left wing media here.
s
Obama the impotent
The disappointment with Barack Obama is tangible – on climate change and financial reform Europe leads while the US lags
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/sep/22/obama-un-climate-change-europe
thanks – surprisingly harsh for the guardian…i like one of the comments to the piece:
People who had bizarre expectations of what was possible are now disappointed.
That says more about the disappointed than about Obama.
There’s just something very schadenfreude about that Tom Delay video. He still looks like a used car sales men only this time he’s wiggling his hips. It makes me throw up in my mouth every time I see it.
That’s why I couldn’t watch.
Let’s all hope he is voted out this evening!
It’s always odd to see what a fundie Mike Seaver turned into…
forgot to include description (Kirk Cameron and his fundie pals are publishing Darwin’s Origin of Species with all this fundie crap attached to it, on the book’s 150th anniversary.)
I was disappointed to learn that “Creation,” a British film about Darwin, opened this week in Britain and other countries but not in the U.S.
http://www.channel4.com/film/reviews/film.jsp?id=174835§ion=review&page=2
The Beantown Globe:
How can anyone ever take the dems seriously again when they are such shameless opportunistic hypocrites?
Damm good question.
Seems the world is waking up from the koolaid – postpartisanship accomplished
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2009/09/23/obama-the-impotent/
Ouch, big time.
And these are our allies.
The more things change the more we remain the same.
Last year at this time we were being denounced as racist Republican ratfuckers. A few weeks ago Dave Sirota called us liberal freaks.
I was just over at that ACORN-hating “shitty fan” blog and I saw people saying they no longer feel welcome here because we don’t want to party with wingnuts.
That’s funny cuz I’m the same Obama-hating DFH moonbat liberal I was last year.
OK, what is the ACORN-hating “shitty fan” blog? I’m not up on the latest terminology.
Last year at this time we were being denounced as racist Republican ratfuckers. A few weeks ago Dave Sirota called us liberal freaks
It’s that pesty having principles thing we insist on ! lol!
Don’t wanna party with wingnuts. Don’t wanna party with arrogant Obots, either.
Agree with paper doll: pesky principles matter.
We have more important things to do than hob nob with a mob.
“I’m not a humanitarian,
I’m a hell-raiser.”
~Mother Jones
myiq,
I did not mind what was posted. Politics ain’t beanbag.
If my use of hyperbole involves saying O’Keefe and Giles have the death stench about them and the ACORN employees that were going to work with them were overwhelmingly more noxious, I expect those who disagree to bite back. SHTF happened.
I think they raised some valid concerns, even where I disagree.
I participated in a small bit of discussion that I thought was reasonable.
Admittedly, I have a soft spot for libertarians and anarchists for the same reasons that I despise authoritarians on the right and left.
s
I admit to having a streak of libertarian still but I’m also very pragmatic. Plus, there’s that side thing about being trained to look at the data before accepting the hypothesis too. Then there’s also the thing that some sources are more reliable than others. I know there’s a lot of ex ACORN board members that blew the whistle on ACORN and there’s some GAO audits and state attorney generals peeking around things. We’re seeing it down here, as an example. I consider those to be much more authoritative sources then getting all moony over a couple of Republican Ali G’s. But then I’ve never seen Borat, and I don’t watch Michael Moore films for the same reason. There’s documentaries and then there’s schockumentaries.
example:
http://www.wdsu.com/video/21080956/index.html
and even worse and NOT ACORN
http://www.wdsu.com/video/21080956/index.html
I’m a social libertarian – government should stay out of people’s personal lives.
I believe in government regulation of business and social safety nets.
Wingnuts are the opposite – they want government to run our personal lives and leave business alone. They also hate social safety nets (for other people, when they are in trouble they scream for Uncle Sugar)
That darn critical-thinking temperament gets in the way all the time, doesn’t it?
Me too.
I was highly amused. Except for a couple recent additions such as yourself all the frontpagers here were here last year when we were called RRR’s.
We haven’t changed, and the people who left are just as liberal as we are.
Some people seem upset that we refuse to engage in knee-jerk bashing of anything or anyone connected to Obama. Others are angry that we don’t want to align ourselves with the tea party movement.
I was bashing wingnuts before I ever heard of the blogosphere. I ain’t gonna swap spit with them just because they hate Obama too.
Obama’s the President right now. As far as I’m considered, I’m holding his feet to the fire. He promised things and he’s not delivering. I’m not defending teabots or Obots. I’m following the issues and the congressional and administration response. Continuing to stay in mad mode is futile and accomplishes nothing. Right now, I’m focusing on trying to stop the continual drift to corporatism I see in this country from both parties. I’m tired of electing officials that have more allegiance to their multinational corporate donors than to their stated agenda and voters.
I’m never going to be Republican as long as they continue to push a religious right agenda and a corporatist agenda. I refuse to align my self with bigots period and the Republicans code their words to play into them. That’s been the case ever since they adopted the so-called Southern Strategy.
I’m not aligned with the Democrats if all they can do is support a corporatist agenda either.
Yup.
I think I actually read a BTD mea culpa
(see his response downthread to the reply to this)
http://www.talkleft.com/comments/2009/9/22/205449/148/2#2
Wow. I thought I’d never live to see the day.
NOW???? they ask him, and he says, Touche.
Duh
At least he’s out of denial.
Wow, those comments remind me of how much we lost when they knee-capped HRC.
On one of those money channels (cnbc? I forget) this morning, someone who was supposed to be Obama’s former doctor was on saying that the health care bill is terrible and Single Payer would be so much simpler and easier.
Let’s all say it together ~
Medicare for all who want it.
So simple.
I know. It’s FOX and Tucker Carlson…but it’s the truth and the closest I’ve seen anyone in the media talk about the race baiting that happened last year!
Saw this exchange and I think it is the first time anyone in the news has really laid out what the behind the scenes traffic to the media was when the O was running for office. He gets a kudo from me.
Me, too.
Watching Jim Clyburn act all self-righteous about the “racism” of the “You lie” guy, while remembering the same card trashing Bill Clinton in South Carolina on behalf of the The One, was especially GALLING.
Kudos, Tucker, even if I don’t agree with anything else you believe. You’re a lot braver than the leaders of the Democratic Party in saying so.
To say that Chris Wallace is not an ideologue is ridiculous. Wallace’s own father knows he’s an ideologue.
I like Greta. She was one of the few newscasters behaving sanely during the 2008 campaign.
Bravo! That is the clearest, most direct explanation of the O Campaign’s use of race to smear the Clintons that I have seen anywhere. Also, Carlson can directly confirm that the campaign was pressing the issue on reporters, many of whom eagerly pushed it for Obama. He calls it an “outrageous slur” that Obama did nothing to counter. Thank you!
They not only pushed it, they concealed where it was coming from.
wow. just wow.
I hope we see more of this truth telling. there is a huge story out there about 2008 and at some point it will be told.
Good catch. Did Carlson expose this closer to the time it happened? Or is it a convenient truth to be used when Obama strikes out in Carlson’s direction?
In real time, Carlson was waving the Clinton nutcracker and claiming he felt compelled to cross his legs whenever Hillary was in his vicinity.
Pretty much.
I think it is kind of interesting that someone would defend an opportunistic hack like Carlson and yet hate on folks at tea parties(as if they were ALL hopeless government haters instead of people who are afraid and being manipulated by folks like Carlson who make money off manipulation).
Who is defending Tucker?
Did Gov. Paterson return fire at BO?
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0909/Paterson_blames_weak_Obama_record_for_friction.html
I just saw this a.m. that Rick Lazio is throwing his hat in the ring for NY Gov.
Serves Teh Precious right. One of the funnier sentences from that article:
“UPDATE: A White House official notes that Obama’s record of passing legislation for which he’s personally fought is, so far, perfect.”
Oh, really?
The only legislation I can recall Obama fighting for was the FISA bill, the bailout bill that passed under Bush (TARP) and the “stimulus” bill.
Well, I think we all knew that O would make an international a$$ out of himself so it is good to see that he is delivering on something.
What the Democrats are so screwing up that Clinton so go right is the whole big idea that government must work for the people. The Repubs let the government twist in the wind and blow it’s significant regulatory functions. The Dems are touting all kinds of big government programs without first tackling the programs that are in trouble. So people are moving in opposition to a government run health care because they are told that medicare and medicaid and social security are all in big trouble and running in the red. They see Fannie and Freddie a mess. They see the bail out in NOLA failing and incomplete. They see their public schools not leading the world but trailing it. They see huge money going to ACORN and hear about it’s voter fraud, voter intimidation and corrupt employees.
We wring our hands here that people are misled and fail to understand the value of single payer etc. I do not see how a liberal agenda is ever going to move forward in this country unless we have the liberal political will and commitment to show that it can work and work well.
What the Democrats are so screwing up that Clinton so got right is the whole big idea that government must work for the people
I think the vital word there is” work”
Hill works. Just for that, she stands alone…but yes , her whole modus operandi is, and has been, for nearly 40 years is: the government must work for the people.
Which explains why she was derailed and despised by the upper crust of both parties. That is the last thing they want…well the two last things;
The government working
and for the people
“I thought he would bring unity and world peace.“
Banging head against wall…
That wasn’t a real quote
so hard to tell anymore, the level of idiocy and delusion surpassed any level of common sense a long time ago.
The sentence just before it should have been the clue:
“Voters in Europe, Africa and Asia express regret for having voted for him.”
Well, actually, there were those absentee ballots from expats.
that made me guffaw!
I thought it meant Americans abroad.
That’s what I thought it meant too, fif. You’re not alone. I took it literally.
Oh brother, more platitudes, scowling, and finger wagging:
Obama Plans Stern Speech to World’s Leaders at U.N.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/23/AR2009092300796.html?hpid=topnews
Surprisingly complimentary piece about Palin in the NYTimes of of all places:
Palin Speaks to Investors in Hong Kong
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/24/us/politics/24palin.html?_r=1
“A number of people who heard the speech in a packed hotel ballroom, which was closed to the media, said Mrs. Palin spoke from notes for 90 minutes and that she was articulate, well-prepared and even compelling.”
D’oh! Imagine that.
Has some of the PDS died down?
Channeling St. Ronnie:
BTW – the NFL has salary caps
Geeze, how many silicon valley entrepeneurs & NFL players did we bail out with tax payer money, Mr. Teleprompsident?
Fertility, In Vitro and Mistake — They had three kids and two were from problem pregnancies with one of those threatened by ‘life threatening complications” for the mother. But their “religious beliefs” compelled them to not let any of the stored eggs go “unused.” They kept at it and now due to an unbelievable clinic mix up, she is carrying someone else’s fertilized egg! I understand the pain and expense of “treatment” for fertility. And you can consider me a “quiter” since we adopted — happily you should know! But this is SUCH an extreme case. Was the clinic within ethical guidelines to continue to “work” with this couple?? Are there no limits?
What I want to know is why are doctors implanting eggs in obviously emotional unstable couples? Did they have to doctor shop to find some one that would do that?
There is a realm of “reasonableness” where docs/clinics need to respect and acknowledge patient choices that are different then they might make. But, really? (We were PUSHED by my Doc to do MORE — in part because he really wanted to protect their “success rate” statistics.) I read the article a couple of times and they were evidently using the clinic they had used for the past two “problem” pregnancies. Protect the life and health of both the mother and potential baby? Not a consideration? The case history was/should have been known. Some places will continue to “cash the check” as long as there is money to be paid. (BTW – We had counseling, two home visits, a follow up home visit, and a formal report to the orphanage/home country for our international adoption. No such requirements for parenting generally — either enhanced or “normal”…..
Really I’m amazed it doesn’t happen more often…yesterday on the bus to Mom’s , I looked down at an ambulance next to the bus and the driver was texting while driving….well at least the potential foul up there was self contained…if there was a crack up, the ambulance would be on the scene already! My point is , foul ups and inattention are so pervasive, I’m amazed a mix up doesn’t happen more. I picked out my new doctor based on how with it the front office was and it worked out well. Someone paying competent attention is gold
Oh lookie! BTD has a post quoting Ron Chusid’s misnamed Liberal Values:
Chusid is a CDS/PDS infested misogynist Failbot
Sen. Jon Kyl (R-Ariz) recently described insurance mandates as an assault on liberty. Well yes, without a public option, without providing people the genuine financial means to purchase insurance it is an assault on liberty.
“Clinton will help them whether they want her to or not.”
Yes, but the keyword here is “help”. What we have right now is a push to simply “help” us into fines and medicare cuts.
Like it or not, the Republicans are capturing the populist voice. That is a failure of Dem leadership. No matter how loyal you are to the Dem party, the bottom line is that people are not going to support a policy that makes their lives harder.
The tea party populists were already singing the GOP tune before the HCR debate started.
It’s not a “tea party line” to believe that fining people who can’t afford health insurance is unethical.
The tea party populists have been opposed to HCR since 1993.
They will oppose ANY plan offered by ANY Democrat.
If they will oppose any plan offered by any Democrat, then you convince them that they are the ones offering the plan. Mitt Romney did it in his state and as much as I think his plan sucks, it’s still a dozen times better then the Baucus bill.
This country can continue to label people, to play partisan games, to dismiss the other half of the country as simply insane or we can unite and start getting things done.
I reject this whole idea that Republicans or teapartiers are defective mutants, simply evil and must be oppressed into silence. Carry that to it’s final conclusion and what do you have? Totalitarianism.
Are you generalizing about all the people who protested? There were tens of thousands of people–they were not all there because Beck told them to go. It dangerously reminds me of the Obot tendency to categorize all low/ middle class voters as rac*st ignorant red necks.
“I reject this whole idea that Republicans or teapartiers are defective mutants, simply evil and must be oppressed into silence. Carry that to it’s final conclusion and what do you have? Totalitarianism.”
Exactly.
Added to which, generalisations are just another illogical thing to do too.
Why do Democrats have to protest with Republicans? Seems to me, you don’t have to stand stand with people who don’t share your basic principles, even if you are all against one or two of the same things for different reasons. Muddies the waters, the way I see it.
a,
“Added to which, generalisations are just another illogical thing to do too.”
Does the generalization you make here fit into your category?
s
“Does the generalization you make here fit into your category?”
Nope. Because I say so.
And if you disagree, I shall pout. Because we all have to agree with each other. Duh.
This deserves no support. No one wants to be fined for not purchasing crap insurance they can’t afford!
If you don’t mind the fines, let us know and we’ll bill you.
You could always send them a bottle of aspirin and then tell them to call you in the morning
Sorry for this ignorant question from Europe: but how can the prez do an interview marathon and leave a big network (FOX) out?
Rahm and Axelrove made an executive decision and POTUS went along with it.
but is there no outrage?? – i mean if you do one interview, it is one thing…but giving 5 and leaving one station out? Nevermind, most European countries have not enough stations to have 5-6 interviews, but it is hard to imagine merkel,brown& co to do what Bo has done without creating a huge stir.
FOX is upset, but the other networks aren’t complaining.
The US media is far more deferential to our leaders than the media in European democracies. From 2002 thru 2005 1/2 our media behaved like Pravda and Izvestia did in the old USSR.
deferential = owned
The Fox audience wouldn’t watch him any way.
Didn’t the Democrats raise hell when he did O’Reilly?
No, but the Failbots freaked out when Hillary went on the show.
FOX didn’t televise Obama’s health care speech to the joint session of Congress.The other networks did. All the networks always televise major presidential speeches. Seems to most that FOX disrespected him first so it seems reasonable that he dissed them back.
BO’s afraid Fox will be mean to him if he lets them interview him. They might not even offer him a pillow.
Honestly, I don’t care. Probably people in Europe don’t understand how much our media is owned and controlled by corporations. It might as well be Pravda in the old Iron Curtain days, if you ask me.
Note: I’ve put a live blog thread up top on the UN meetings and speeches if any one is interested.
Totally OT but funny email I got today….
My Daddy is an Exotic Dancer
One day a fourth-grade teacher asked the children what their fathers did for a living. All the typical answers came up — fireman, mechanic, businessman, salesman, doctor, lawyer, and so forth.
However, little Justin was being uncharacteristically quiet, so when the teacher prodded him about his father, he finally replied, ‘Okay…my father is an exotic dancer in a gay cabaret and takes off all his clothes in front of other men and they put money in his underwear. Sometimes, if the offer is really good, he will go home with some guy and stay with him all night for money.’
The teacher, obviously shaken by this statement, hurriedly set the other children to work on some exercises and then took little Justin aside to ask him, ‘Is that really true about your father?’
‘No’, the boy said, ‘He actually works for the Democratic National Committee and helped get Barack Obama elected President last year, but I was too embarrassed to say that in front of the class.’
LOL.
Lobbyists lining up to take down the CFPA
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/59849-lobbying-intensifies-over-regulatory-plan
I reject this whole idea that Republicans or teapartiers are defective mutants, simply evil and must be oppressed into silence. Carry that to it’s final conclusion and what do you have? Totalitarianism.
Wow! I am an oppressive dictator because I don’t wanna hang out and party with people who oppose the things I believe in?
Strawman much?
I don’t see anyone trying to oppress the tea partiers into silence.
It’s not a strawman at all. Doesn’t make any difference to me who you chose to hang out with, but you have been making an undeniable attempt to dismiss and discredit the teapartiers, to lump them all into one category. To refer to them as ditto heads, to tell us we shouldn’t lay down with fleas. After a while the implication becomes that they aren’t really Americans, in fact, they’re so stupid they’re barely human. They should just sit down and shut up, they aren’t entitled to having a voice at the table. Once you dehumanize a group of people, it doesn’t take a leap of imagination to next start believing they are not entitled to same rights as “normal” people.
It’s true, many of them probably don’t share your political beliefs. Well, is this a country that supports diverse views or is this a country where only those who agree with you are entitled to have their voices represented?
What is mocking, ridiculing, and shunning people except an attempt to silence them?
Ditto heads is what Limbaugh fans call themselves. If you think the tea party populists are so wonderful then go hang out with them.
Start with Free Republic and Michelle Malkin’s blog. They are very enlightened and open-minded about liberals over there.
Why not Dkos or Democratic Underground? They’re just as “open-minded and enlightened” towards liberals as Free Republic or Malkin.
Instead of trying to convert us why aren’t you converting tea party populists to liberalism?
Go to some tea parties and preach to them.
SF Gate:
Who hates government?
Tea party populists.
Whoa. Aren’t the Tea Partyers also big on law & order etc?
When I think who hates “Feds” my first thought would be drug lords & organized crime.
Crooks hate cops, not census takers.
Tim McVeigh would be a tea party populist if he were still alive.
A dumb crook might mistake a census taker for an undercover cop, snooping around and asking questions.
yeah, sure.
Before we condemn the people at the tea parties as responsible for this let’s say we let the investigators investigate.
Using your logic I should believe “the government” hates poor people. Why? Well, look at it’s response to Hurricane Katrina.
My sympathies go out to his family.
Census taking and enumerating are a civic service. The symbolism is chillingly stark.
For what it is worth I agree with you yttik.
I disagree with alot of the rhethoric that is bandied about at these tea parties but reject that the majority of these people aren’t caring people who disagree with me. It isn’t like there isn’t adequate reason to mistrust the government when it has consistently screwed up on everything from FEMA to banking regulation or lack thereof, to outright losing billions in places like Iraq. While I believe that government can do good, I completely understand the fear that some have that might lead them to believe the government would fail them again as it has done in the not so recent past over and over.
FWIW
Ditto!
*ducks*
Seriously, though, I don’t see the point of attacking the tea parties when they are opposing the same thing I am opposing — bad health care. Granted they are doing it for the wrong reasons, and approaching it from the wrong direction.
But attacking them is a way of defending B0′s administration, from my pov, and I refuse to do that.He has betrayed everything the left is supposed to stand for; why should the left protect him?
I would rather attack B0′s wrong policies myself, and watch his admin flail as it is attacked on all sides.
I hope you all feel so charitable towards Republicans and conservatives once their takeover of both parties is complete. And the “tea” in TEA party stands for Taxed Enough Already. They and their Recess Rally/Townhall/AngryRenter, etc. coalition oppose all liberal Democratic policies, not just health care. When you support their protests, you do too, by proxy.
gotta go with Cinie on this one!!!
These things aren’t being run by nice Republucan old people, though. This is the scary fringe of aggressive conservative activists who have been organizing forever. As a young person, it scares me that tge kind of Young Republicans who do affirmative action bake sales are going to be in charge of the Republucan Party because organizing these things made them into major players. It seems like, like with Obama, there are unintended consequenes to everything. Probably more Hill voters would have thought twice if they realized how much control Obamacrats were going to have over the next decade or more. And it seems like there may be consequences here that will only be clear longterm after it’s too late, these things take on their own momentum.
When you consider the rhetoric of the speakers and the stuff on the posters you see at tea parties, I would expect any moderates who attended to depart toot sweet.
Exactly. The idea of attending a protest or demonstration makes a lot of people uncomfortable, anyway. Yeah, they’re in favor of certain causes, but it’s an unfamiliar situation and the comfort level is not there. Some of this stuff and they’d be out of there like a shot.
If I was at an anti-war protest where people were burning American flags I would bail.
They have a right to express themselves, but I don’t have to listen or let myself be associated with them.