
On Peter Singer’s essay “Why We Must Ration Health Care“
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common Defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
When I read this preamble to our sacred founding text, a prominent note for me is the implication of our promise as a nation “to promote the general Welfare.” This clause implies that when our governing bodies make legislative, executive, and judicial decisions, those decisions should be on behalf of the greater good. Somewhere along the line this sense of interdependent duty to each other has gone awry. This lost sense of obligation to the general welfare is painfully obvious in the current discussions over healthcare reform. The issue of “rationing” healthcare is one such area where our individualism is getting in the way of our Forefathers’ promise to provide for the common good. Bioethicist Peter Singer entered the debate today with his essay in today’s New York Times “Why We Must Ration Health Care,” where he attempts to form a logical rationale for the necessity of “rationing” healthcare as part of our future healthcare policy:
In the current U.S. debate over health care reform, “rationing” has become a dirty word. Meeting last month with five governors, President Obama urged them to avoid using the term, apparently for fear of evoking the hostile response that sank the Clintons’ attempt to achieve reform. In a Wall Street Journal op-ed published at the end of last year with the headline “Obama Will Ration Your Health Care,” Sally Pipes, C.E.O. of the conservative Pacific Research Institute, described how in Britain the national health service does not pay for drugs that are regarded as not offering good value for money, and added, “Americans will not put up with such limits, nor will our elected representatives.” And the Democratic chair of the Senate Finance Committee, Senator Max Baucus, told CNSNews in April, “There is no rationing of health care at all” in the proposed reform.
While I’ll agree that the term “rationing” has become the partisan equivalent of yelling “boo” whenever the issue of healthcare arises, I find that its use as a wedge in the discussion portrays the moral bankruptcy of our independent spirit. The corporatists and profiteers have done very well in building a cultural belief system that makes it morally acceptable to look the other way while someone else dies – under the guise of “it’s *their* problem and I should not be required to spend *my* money to save them.” Singer’s argument feasts upon this sense of self we’ve cultivated, where we view each other in the context of the individual and not the collective. I guess doing so makes it much more palatable when we hear someone like Singer say:
“…suppose it’s not you with the cancer but a stranger covered by your health-insurance fund. If the insurer provides this man — and everyone else like him — with Sutent, your premiums will increase. Do you still think the drug is a good value? Suppose the treatment cost a million dollars. Would it be worth it then? Ten million? Is there any limit to how much you would want your insurer to pay for a drug that adds six months to someone’s life? If there is any point at which you say, “No, an extra six months isn’t worth that much,” then you think that health care should be rationed.
Peter Singer is an ethicist who espouses a utilitarian view of ethics, meaning that his interpretation of general welfare extends to an economic calculation of costs versus benefits. For example, he proposes that it is acceptable to identify specific measures of when a treatment is effective enough to warrant the cost of providing such treatment:
Rationing health care means getting value for the billions we are spending by setting limits on which treatments should be paid for from the public purse. If we ration we won’t be writing blank checks to pharmaceutical companies for their patented drugs, nor paying for whatever procedures doctors choose to recommend. When public funds subsidize health care or provide it directly, it is crazy not to try to get value for money. The debate over health care reform in the United States should start from the premise that some form of health care rationing is both inescapable and desirable. Then we can ask, What is the best way to do it?
First, it is critical to note that healthcare is already “rationed” in our country. It is “rationed” each and every day when the uninsured or under-insured are denied the same high quality treatments afforded to those without financial constraints. Anyone who has seen Michael Moore’s movie “Sicko” saw through this film the soulless rationing of treatment in our country such as how the poor and indigent were treated by a for-profit hospital that dumped them on a street corner after providing only minimal care. I will never forget the morning I broke down in tears after reading about a man in our community who had cancer, lost his job and with it his health insurance. His statement “I’m just waiting to die because I cannot afford the chemotherapy drugs” exposed the unimaginable truth that our society is willing to allow people to die with little protest from its citizens. If this is already unacceptable, why would we want to factor such a strategy into any plan we devise?
Now, I have a great deal of respect for Peter Singer and his general view of the world, but his utilitarian ethical approach to healthcare reform in our country is one I cannot embrace; and the reason I cannot embrace it is because our political leaders do not use a utilitarian view when dealing with banks, Wall Street barons, and corporations. How does a society continue to exist when those who have little are turned away from life saving treatments while the wealthy live in a world where money is no object? There is something inherently wrong with standing before a nation and acting as though there is no limit to the funds our country should expend so that banks and Wall Street traders are allowed to continue to feed at the trough of excess, yet a discussion over saving the lives of our fellow citizens erodes into debate over cutting costs. Yet this is exactly what our legislators and president are doing to us on a daily basis — on both sides of the political aisle.
The unassailable truth is that our priorities are all wrong. Our political leaders have lost their souls as they engage in deceitful rhetoric that professes concern for the common man while every act they engage in benefits only the rich and well connected. What will it take for those of us at the bottom of this pyramid to stand up and demand real change? I’m not talking about “change” you can write on a campaign poster. I’m talking about real social change. What if it were your son, daughter, spouse, parent, or friend that faced “rationed” healthcare because our government felt it was more important to feed Haliburton’s or Goldman Sach’s coffers than it was to make sure live-saving drugs and treatments were available to all who need them? What would YOU pay?
The question is not whether or not we should ration. The question is why it’s even a question. Make sure that we live up to the promise of our founding fathers “to provide for the general welfare.” Universal healthcare, regardless of economic status, is implicit in that promise.
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Filed under: Health, Health Care Reform, healthcare | Tagged: Politics, universal health care


















I know Huffpo linking to dkos is not the most reliable sourcing, but it is what it is…
LEAKED: More Than Fifty House Progressives Privately Commit To Oppose Weak Health Care Bill
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/15/leaked-more-than-fifty-ho_n_234425.html
Thank you, finally some of them are waking up. The e-mails to the progressives that do the volunteering is gearing up and Dr. Dean is out raising money and isn’t going to let this go down without a fight. Obama is our President, but that doesn’t mean we give up our principle to give him a photo op win with no substance nor any coverage for the working folks of this country.
We (the people) should demand that all elected officials have to use the same health care system the we have access to.
I’ve been in worsening, sometimes intolerable pain for weeks and just got a diagnosis of arthritis on numerous levels in my upper spine (cervical and thoracic). I was able to get this diagnosis because my insurance covers MRIs, a very expensive diagnostic tool. Very soon, I’ll be able to see a not inexpensive pain specialist and hopefully get some long term relief, because my insurance covers this. Without our health insurance from the city of New Orleans (because of my husband’s former career as a firefighter), I don’t know how we could pay for such pricey care. The thought of anyone in this sort of debilitating condition going untreated because they have no insurance or inadequate insurance is unthinkable. Actually, it’s inhuman.
Kat5, I’m very glad that you will be getting relief from your pain. It would be inhuman would it not to ration away care.
If we cannot affore health care for all our people, we sure can’t afford to bail out any banks. Vote them out of office in 2010, if they cast a vote for this kind of health care deform.
I have arthritis in my knees, feet and hands – It is something that most folks think is just a nuisance but as you’ve discovered it limits your life’s activities and at times can be excruciating.
I recently found a knee specialist who gave me a series of prolotherapy shots and the difference is incredible and almost immediate – little if any pain – I can go up and down stairs again and many other activities that I thought I’d have to give up forever.
Oh, and yes, it’s covered by insurance and Medicare
Thanks for the encouraging words – they’re much needed at the moment!
kat5
I hope you can get the help you need and get rid of much of the pain.
Every day American citizens go to Mexico for eye care, dental care, medicines and many go for cancer treatment. I read last week about people going to India for operations.
This is wrong.
When the oath of office is given to congress they promise to uphold the Constitution. That includes promoting the general welfare. I realize that today’s congress does not think the Constitution applies to them but it still does.
They either do the job or get the hell out of the way while we get someone who can. 2010 is closer then they think.
WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS
PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE
SoD, I totally agree that “The question is not whether or not we should ration. The question is why it’s even a question. End the war. Stop handing all of our money to the banks . . . .”
When I hear calm discussions of the value in treating someone with terminal cancer in there last months I think of my mother back in the early eighties when her cancer metastasized in her liver — at the time no one had ever survived that diagnosis.
But, my dad found a doctor who had an idea for an aggressive treatment and he got mom accepted as that doctors patient.
And my mom is still here. And that’s just one of her stories. She’s been near death several times. Each time she’s had surprising (on one occasion possibly miraculous) recoveries.
We just don’t know when people are in “the last months of their life” — although by withholding treatment will make it a lot easier to predict than treating illnesses aggressively!
The problem is that those with ample money seek to apply their own projected value upon the lives of others. How can they value one life over another simply based on socio-economic status?
When a society allows that to happen, we have certainly broke that solemn promise of the Constitution.
How? Because they can. And with the “several health plans” available, it’s going to be made law.
Well put Katiebird, not that it is what is best, it is “Because they can”.
Wingnuts like to talk about health care as if it’s a privilege rather than a right, yet they speak of being “pro-life” and wanting to “promote a culture of life.”
To me, universal health care is “pro-life.”
You are so right.
I agree, and it is pro Human Rights too.
You got that right!
In a way it’s mildly sociopathic when people make that kind of comparison. It certainly shows a marked lack of empathy for the pain and suffering of others. I would not want to be friends with that person.
Every day it makes me ill to see our political leaders fall all over themselves to “save” Goldman Sachs and AIG, etc., yet hem and haw over saving human life.
It’s astounding and deplorable all at once.
Human life is not important to them, compared to the life of those corporations. After all, corporations are creatures of money and that’s what they respect.
“Respect” is too mild a word, Ralph. They WORSHIP money.
The First Amendment notwithstanding, we do have a de facto official religion in the USA, and it is the worship of Mammon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammon
I agree completely.
I was watching C-Span early this morning. The discussion was about health care. The calls generally went with the usual sides pro and con. Then, a caller expressed what I call a novel idea for paying for health care—tax the assets of churches. Surely, he expressed, they would be interested in doing God’s work by helping the sick, poor, and generally, all God’s people. Not trying to upset any one’s apple cart, but I do see merit to the idea.
I can’t think of a better use of funds, great idea.
Can I get an amen for that?
AMEN!
I can just hear some preacher saying ‘God called and he said NO!’.
LOL
Speaking of our abandoned fellow citizens, I don’t remember if I read about Arthur Silber’s plight here or somewhere else, but in case it wasn’t here, here’s the link:
http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2009/07/slowly-trying-to-regroup.html
This guy sometimes has to choose between food and medicine, like so many other people in “the greatest country in the world YEW ESS AY! YEW ESS AY! yadda yadda yadda”. He could use whatever you can afford to send him [PayPal link on his page].
Haruhi-sama save us, we must be the laughing stock of the civilized world by now.
There’s plenty of funding out there, besides the savings that would be realized by covering all persons and not subsidizing the uninsured. Let’s see:
1) the unending war in Iraq
2) TARP funds
3) unspent stimulus funds
4) roll back the Bush tax cuts
5) end subsidies for sending production off shore
6) end the capital gains tax exemption
and on and on and on…none of these are “for the general welfare” of our citizens.
There’s nothing not to like in your list. I say they should do all of those things, whether it’s for health care or nothing.
Thank yo SOD for writing this piece and putting it out front and center. This was our one opportunity to join the other Western countries who provide Universal Health Care and we missed it, because our President represents big business. My congressperson is getting praise form the big companies (via free advertising asking us to say thank you? Yea, right.
), and yes, said congressperson was supporting Obama over Hillary. Hemmm…..
Donna Smith on Single-Payer (“They are not listening to Advocates of Single Payer”…”Ten thousand a day are losing health insurance a day”…- Donna Smith CA CNA )
Wonder why he didn’t invite these nurses to the White House today? Not buying the smoke and mirrors of pretend coverage. Who is really important, their big donor campaign contributors, not the working folks, not those little voters they claim to represent.
PDA – Healthcare Not Warfare: Paul Wellstone (we miss you), “People not afraid to be Democrats”-Jim Hightower, Support H.R. 676 Sign the petition at: http://www.PDAmerica.org
Peter Singer may be an ethicist, but he’s morally bankrupt if he doesn’t understand the fallacy here: “suppose it’s not you with the cancer but a stranger …. If there is any point at which you say, “No, an extra six months isn’t worth that much,” then you think that health care should be rationed.”
What you think about a stranger’s health care is a measure of your selfishness, not of your belief in rationing. If you think your own condition is not worth ten million for an extra six months, then you believe in rationing.
Singer may be too selfish to imagine anyone who could think like that, but there are lots of people who are way ahead of him. What does he think the whole hospice movement is about?
There’s also a practical problem with his thinking. Not everyone gets cancer. Not everyone gets the type of cancer which will be helped by the most expensive new drug. Just because insurance covers $$$$drug, doesn’t mean you should multiply $10,000,000 by the number of people covered. Get real. Or at least get a course in epidemiology and medical statistics.
He’s attempting to apply a utilitarian view of the use of public funds for health care. However, our government does not use a utilitiarian approach to any other strategy for expenditure of public funds, therefore his argument fails.
I agree quixote, Peter Singer is morally bankrupt! There really is no other way to look at it, and then people wonder why no one helped the man that was hit, and left on the road. When you give up humanity, do you just give up a little or does it make you leak from there on until there is nothing left and one becomes indifferent to the pain/suffering of ones fellow man/woman?!?
We are going to have to come up with a sane, medically sound upper limit, though. It has to be done carefully, and stretched as far as it can stretch, but it will have to be done. But it needs to be a uniform standard that is decided by physicians, NOT by insurance companies. I can tell you for a fact that a lot of treatments, surgeries, etc are done that do not extend life, and have ZERO chance of extending life. They are merely demanded by upset families or patients who are in denial abut the medical realities. I’ve seen families demand that a hip surgery be done on someone who is already in multiple organ failure, when 6 different docs are telling them that it’s pointless. The hip might work, but that liver and those kidneys are already gone.
I understand your situation with your mom, I do. And I’m not talking about refusing more aggressive treatment for an individual disease. But you need to know that for every case like your mom’s, there are hundreds and hundreds where further treatment is indeed, and in REALITY, pointless. And for every dollar spent uselessly, others are robbed of dollars that WOULD have helped them with definite benefit. The money is not there, and will never be there, to supply heroic and extreme measures for every single person. That’s the reality.
It’s a difficult and emotional subject. But if, as you say, we should function less as selfish individuals and more collectively, then it’s not fair to suddenly revert to “only the individual is important” when it’s YOUR mom or husband. And no one is saying that those who choose extreme measures would not still be able to do that, if they had a supplemental policy or could pay for it themselves. It’s just not going to be paid for by the whole. But is it fair to risk BASIC healthcare for all in the pursuit of absolute last ditch efforts for a few?
I for one would be willing to have a healthcare plan that provided reasonable care for all, with accepted treatments with a proven track record of medical success paid for. If I want to pursue more aggressive or alternative treatments for myself or my family, then I’m going to have to find a way to pay for it myself. I have to do that NOW, so why would that be worse? At least the bulk of medical care for all would be covered. NO SYSTEM is perfect.
Yes, but Singer’s argument is not about untested, alternative, or more aggressive treatment. He’s merely applying a measure of input to outcome.
My objection is to the use of a utilitarian perspective for this while the rest of their spending is based on campaign contributions.
There are ways to ensure that people are treated equally regardless of socio-economic status. Are we willing as individuals to take that path?
If you take the position, no matter how ethically right you may think you are, that we need a system that either a) covers anything any doctor decides to order, or b) pretty much outlaws anyone seeking treatment that is not covered under the public plan, then we will NEVER have basic healthcare for all in this country. Ever.
We keep having conversations about extreme end-of-life treatments, and terminal cancer treatments and all the other things that DO NOT make up the bulk of needed care in this country. Meanwhile, people die because they get simple bronchitis that turns septic, or can’t afford insulin.
Right now, many of us are on our own for all those high-dollar things anyway.
It’s a useless argument to balk and say that unless EVERYTHING is covered, or unless the very rich are somehow prevented from paying for “extras” if they choose, we won’t accept the plan. Let’s get basic, routine care covered for ALL. If we still end up “on our own” for more rare or less common procedures, we are still better off as a whole.
That’s not what I’m saying. My beef is with the utilitarian application to this, which fits in the definition of general welfare while TARP funds and the GS slushies are not. So my argument is one of principle, not necessarily fact.
I would definitely agree there’s a difference between unfettered and equal.
well, they obviously buy into Reaganomics … or trickle down economics … you can’t help individuals, but you can bail out their employers and hope that not too many jobs disappear.
Oh, okay. I agree that they do not apply the same utilitarian standard to other endeavors, and that SUCKS, and is wrong as hell. I just don’t see how pointing that out, or making it the focus of argument is going to help us GET basic healthcare. I’m not looking to convert them all to my ethical standards, just GET THE DAMN HEALTHCARE.
I’m looking to win the battle, not the moral debate. Fuck the moral debate, if I can get them to act for whatever reasons.
Don’t you feel that the underlying “mine is mine” mentality undermines that goal?
By using that psychological leverage they are able to keep that goal out of our reach.
trickle down economics was …gulp
What’s your philosophy on pain management, WMCB? Pain is subjective in that we all experience it to different degrees, and some of us have a lower threshold than do others. One can live with debilitating pain, I suppose, and not experience organ failure. But as for quality of life…that’s a whole other story. Chronic pain is already under treated in many cases, perhaps because of its generally nonlethal, difficult nature. Do we refuse treatment for serious pain because it won’t kill us?
Singer misses the point that those expensive life-preserving treatments are usually new and experimental cutting edge stuff.
Maybe they only buy someone six more months, but the knowledge gained could halp someone else live much longer.
The first organ transplants were like that.
That’s what federally funded research is for.
Well that would fit into his utilitarian view as a cost / benefit analysis.
Where is the line, though? Is it okay to pay for a procedure that is effective for 5% of patients? What about if it’s only effective for 1%? What about effective for .0002%?
So long as healthcare consumes time, effort, work, resources, and raw materials, you cannot get around that there IS a cost/benefit aspect involved. You may disagree on where, exactly, “not worth it” kicks in, but it is not immoral to recognize that.
WMCB,
I understand what you’re saying. I’m not saying there may not be a logical rationale there, but as I said in my post, I can’t embrace that argument in light of how our gov’t approaches everything else.
I actually agree with you. But I don’t agree that we don’t use whatever arguments are necessary to get the healthcare done.
If we are waiting for moral conversion across the whole spectrum of govt before we can get healthcare, then we may as well give it up now. I’m not waiting for that. I don’t give a shit if they enact basic healthcare for the most selfish and venal reasons possible. I’m interested in results.
I do believe it’s important to point out the moral imperatives so that as a society we frame issue in a way that promotes the general welfare.
Unfortunately, as long as we allow them to frame it, we’ll never succeed. We’ll get a bunch of fluff that doesn’t solve the problem.
They frame the issue and develop the solution. We’re not in the equation.
The moral argument is an essential component of universal healthcare — whatever the configuration. I believe it can be achieved with a public option format or single payer. But it’s the moral framing that matters.
This happens now. These are questions people face all the time. The standards should be applied universally however, not based on socio-economic status.
I actually think we’re on the same side of this argument.
Are you defending a plan some bureaucrat decides who’s worthy of what treatment? I don’t believe it.
By the way, that’s what Singer said and you seem to be defending it. I doubt anyone is talking about some pie in the sky plan with no limits. However, everyone should be part of the same plan with the same limits.
There will always be people buying their way around limits and people willing to sell, so I fully expect human nature to prevail there as well.
There comes a time in most lives where further treatment will not help, or our quality of life is such that we may not want it to help. That’s where you ration and it has to be decided between the patient and physician.
No, not a bureaucrat. I specifically said that doctors should be the ones to craft what the limits are, i.e. what are the accepted norms for medical treatment, and those things get written into the plan and covered.
And no, I don’t think it can be decided on an individual basis by doc and patient. Because patients and families in distress will understandably push for and demand more (no matter how pointless), as well as some docs will do more just for a buck. There need to be uniform guidelines as to what care is and is not covered.
Medicare does this now. It’s not that hard.
Good, you had me worried for a minute. Medicare is not always so cut and dried when the rubber meets the road.
My mother had both serious heart and lung issues and they covered her treatments until she was ready to go into hospice. That decision was not made by Medicare but by her and her physicians, an internist/family doctor and three specialists
Patients and familes only push for more and demand more when they don’t understand the quality of life issues. If the family doctor has been straightforward with them over time, it makes everything easier at the end.
Singer is not talking about people who are demanding fruitless efforts. He sees this as a mathematical equation,i.e., the value of 6 months = X in health care dollars spent.
(nodding) That’s why I contributed the story of my mom’s treatment. She was considered all but dead by the doctors here in KC — but, at MD Anderson that longshot treatment really paid off.
Also, I guess in that Singer guy’s family you don’t do EVERYTHING possible to save someone you love. And if you’ll do it for the people you love, shouldn’t you be willing for everyone to have the same opportunity?
For “ethicists” like Singer, it would appear that HIS family is much different from OUR families, in his eyes at least.
I remember back around 1984 there was a baby girl who received a heart transplant from a baboon. There were animal rights groups protesting and I remember telling someone that if it was my daughter I would hold the damn baboon down while they cut its heart out.
Absolutely and I would do it for your daughter, as well as, my own. Animal rights are fine but we are at the top of the food chain for a reason.
Singer is a huge animal rights activist and has argued that we are on an equal plane as sentient beings. He is however a utilitarian that is imposing this philosophy here while not recognizing the hypocrisy of if in our current society.
I just found some more money to pay for healthcare:
IRS Fails to Collect $1.2 Billion From Those Owing $1 Million
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aNbvW7_OHFGw
NOW if we could just find those missing 2+ billion dollars lost in the Iraq accounting system. Hemmm…
Health Care for America Now (Grass roots campaign is mounting, please help, make affordable Health Care for everyone)
<strong.Health Care For America NOW!
http://www.healthcareforamericanow.org/
I like that in the video she lets people know that this is something many of us having been working long before Obama even ran for Office. So, we are not giving up that easy, we will push onward and forward, the people deserve to join the Western world and have Health Care for ALL Americans.
if there going to be a show 2night PUMA UNITED RADIO
Good question.
Worst part of it is, Singer’s essay will be used as the anti-healthcare manifesto by the republicans now. they’ll be all “see… see…these liberals agree that healthcare should be rationed.”
Gee, can we send him a FedEx not to help!
FYI – SOS Hillary is now on C-Span 3, answering questions of member of the Council on Foreign Policy, after her speech (caught the end). Hope it will be rebroadcast. Certainly not much mention on the network news tonight. At least NPR radio played excerpts on their news.
She doesn’t need a sling! Hope she’s making good progress in P.T.
Heard on one network that Clinton’s 1993 Health Care Plan polled higher, or had more public support than Obama’s. (Don’t tell Barry…)
SoD, (or anyone who knows how to do it) could you put up social links for this post? i would DEFINITELY share this on facebook.
Incredible post, btw.
thanks kevin. I’ve sent a message to our “social linkers.” I’m a bit of an html dummy.
there ya go!!!
Thanks dak!
Posted! thanks dak
Another area where there is rationing of medical care is one of Captain Spaulding’s favorite topics – organ donation.
If you have 1 organ and two possible recipients, who gets it? The old rich guy or the young poor one?
It will be rationing for the poor, and the rich will still get whatever they need or want. I respect Peter Singer, but in reality that is how it will work.
Excellent post, SoD!!
OT
LMAO
RIP TOTUS
That’s rich!
Great post! Thank you!!
somebody is reading the health care option. This does not sound good to me.
this might be a right wing site but we all need to know what is in the bill before the vote so we can tell our congress what we want.
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=332548165656854
WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS
PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE
doesn’t matter which wing that was from. corrente is tearing the bill apart from the left. it’s a real piece of work and a pos.
Link, link please oh pretty please.
Sorry, here’s one now.
http://www.correntewire.com/hr_3200_house_health_care_deform_bill
The text on HR 676 Single Payer doesn’t prohibit the sale of insurance, it simply states they can’t sell you something you already have.
President Obama’s:
For the full test of the Bill click Bill Text HR 3200 on the site. I am still in support of Single Payer as the Obama plan seems much of the same and it has some odd things like loan programs and other language that I need more time to understand. HR 3200 is close to 200 pages long and has a multitude of language in regards to plans.
I hope this helps.
The above link is old, they say it is well over 1000+ pages now. Wow wee…late nights reading that baby. Must have a lot of PORK in it.
Bill is 1018 pages, of which the majority is devoted to fucking up Medicare 525 pages. They also cut Medicaid cause we all know those poor people don’t need health care.
If your state wanted to try a single payer plan, the bill forbids exemptions from erisa, so that’s out as well. Private insurance companies will get a hell of a lot of money though so Congress will have met it’s real goal.
A “health care reform” bill that pleases all the special interest groups and pharmaceutical companies but does nothing to improve the health of ordinary Americans.
http://www.naturalnews.com/026628_health_America_health_care.html
that no big supprise . they have not cared about ordinary Americans. 4 along time
I know I’m late to this party, but Big D came out in favor of same-sex marriage. How awesome is that? *dances*
Now, if only he could come out in favor of a better economy.
Was this where I read that “Hillarycare” was currently polling higher than “Obamacare”? I know I read that.
Yup, I read that ^^ up there ^^.
What a great post to wake up to. Great job SoD.
Uh ooh! Stay as far away from Glenn Beck as you can.
Oops! I can’t embed the Media Matters video here.
Here’s the Youtube version.
Glen Beck is nuts, and distorts the truth. The Deputy Prime Minister from Australia was in the US when he first got symptoms, he wasn’t here seeking treatment and the it turns out that a robot manufactured by the US Defense Department is now being used to fight prostate disease by Professor Tony Costello is one of Australia’s leading urologists.
WOW…there goes Glen’s smoking gun and need I say he needs to do some fact checking instead of turning red and yelling because ‘THE WOMAN’ wouldn’t believe him. HELLO! This Wimin folks didn’t buy his BULL either…hope his head doesn’t explode if someone tells him!
Support Single Payer NOW!
I need some rest now, since I still have the flu and am leaving letters and even word out of the replies. Any hoo, no pun intended in calling Glen Beck a nut, and I do have the little check your breast and check your prostate water proof reminders in the shower. Equal care for the family JEWELS I say!
If there is to be real health-care reform HMOs must be banned and the nation returned to the 1946 Hill-Burton standards of provision of medical infrastructure for every part of the country.
On the afternoon of July 15, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), during a markup session of the Kennedy health-reform bill, provided what amounts to a bill of indictment against the private insurance business,
Using data from a recent Congressional Quarterly investigative article, Sanders reported that the insurance sector and pharmaceutical industries spend the “unbelievable” sum of $1.4 million a day on lobbying the Congress and on campaign contributions. The drug companies, he reported, spent $200 million last year, to influence federal policy—more than any other sector—and HMOs spent $62 million in the first quarter of this year. He called this effort “dangerous to democracy” and added that “they use it to make sure we don’t do what we should to protect the American people.”
All of this lobbying spending is to protect a system that increased profits to private insurance companies by 170 percent from 2003 to 2007 and pays the top executives of the top seven insurance companies an average of $414.2 million per year. That profit is generated by a massive bureaucracy, dedicated to denying payments to health-care providers, that costs 30 percent of every dollar that goes into health care and that “grows” administrative workers at a rate 25 times faster than new doctors are produced!
Sanders cited the example of Duke University Hospital having to employ 900 billing clerks to fight with the insurers over denied payments. Duke is a 900 bed hospital, so that amounts to one billing clerk per bed!
Sanders’ amendment to allow states which choose to do so to implement a state-wide single-payer system, was voted down by the committee on a 19-to-4 vote.
What is being proposed will not be a right but an obligation whether you want it or not, or you will pay a penalty or fee (tax) for not participating. It is wrong and not moral at all to require participation in something you do not want at a particular time in your life.
Excellent analysis. The Right to life means absolutely nothing if it doesn’t mean the right to access healthcare (without burdensome debt).
Dianne Feinstein: Representing Californians…. If she feels like it. Won’t see Jay (FireDogLake), who spent 60K out of pocket to treat her breast cancer while INSURED! She wants to meet with her representative but since SHE BLOGS..NO CAN DO?!?
The BIG QUESTION was if she supports a Public Option?
Since they (Feinstein’s Office) are afraid of BAD media, we will help FireDogLake by letting other bloggers know they DIDN’T LET HE IN!
(((SCREAMING))) Let her in already, bloggers get sick too!
André D. Carson, United States Representative for Indiana’s 7th congressional district July 6,2009 (Is this one of the 50 willing to HOLD the line and PUSH BACK for the PEOPLE and a TRUE PUBLIC OPTION?!?…Woo Hoo, there are still some progressive out there!)
Obama is beginning to see that some legislators are willing to look after their constituents! Hurray! I say thank you for those willing to hold the line for a public option.
THANK YOU!
nyceve talks to insurance industry lobbyists
Obama’s Bully Pulpit on Health Care
Taylormarsh, must be NOT too happy with the blocking of Single Payer and NO PUBLIC OPTION based on the ‘Bully Pulpit’.
Why Oppose The Public Option?
His other videos are gross.