A Blue Pill for the Economy

viagraI firmly fell into the “this is not going to be enough camp” when the initial Obama stimulus plan came hopping down the bunny trail  during Q1 2009.  You can read me here and here and as recently as here.    Krugman and Delong are still on the same page with me.  First, there’s Paul’s Vegematic Policy advocacy post to his blog here.  His feelings are not so hard to miss.  Brad even titled his missive The Obama Administration is not Making Much Sense these Days. No subtlety there either.  Here’s two points from Dr. Krugman that are just begging for elucidation.

Like Brad, I’m not too happy with the policy justifications we’re getting from the administration. It’s perfectly clear that the stimulus was too small; I think they know that too. But they’ve made a political judgment that (a) they can’t push another round through and (b) the thing to do right now is defend the policy they already have.

He didn’t really go much further on points a and b but I feel I must because you have to understand that they sent a half-baked, overly-optimistic, tax-incentive-laced-republican-palliative to do something that required strong medicine.  This is not judgment you can trust and change you can believe.  This is economics amateur hour and you don’t have to have a Nobel Prize or a classy MIT Phd to figure it out.  Let me just quote from Brad to put things into perspective.

If Tim Geithner is not making much sense, neither is Barack Obama. Keith Hennessy directs us to quotes:

“Dan Balz: The Take: Obama Stands to Be Judged on Economic Recovery: Obama, in Moscow yesterday, tried to modulate the impact of the vice president’s words that the administration had somehow miscalculated. “No, no, no, no, no,” he told NBC’s Chuck Todd. “Rather than say ‘misread,’ we had incomplete information.” To ABC’s Jake Tapper, he said, “There’s nothing that we would have done differently”…”

And in Dan Balz’s judgment:

“Scrambling for a macroeconomic message: It seems hard to square an assessment that the administration underestimated the severity of the recession and the assertion that the White House wouldn’t have done anything differently had it known how bad things really were…”

All in all, it looks like the unemployment rate in 2009 is going to average 1.2 percentage points above where the administration last December thought we would be. First quarter real GDP was $11.36 trillion year-2000 dollars–and second-quarter real GDP will be the same. Thus year-2009 real GDP is going to be close to $11.40 trillion–1.2% lower than the administration forecast that real GDP in the four quarters of 2009 would average $11.53 trillion.

It is interesting and important to note that the excess unemployment now forecast over 2009 relative to last December’s forecast is of the same magnitude–1.2%–as the deficiency in real GDP. In earlier decades this would not have been the case. In earlier decades the economy was ruled by Okun’s Law, and the rule-of-thumb was that the excess unemployment was 2/5 of the magnitude of the deficiency in production, not equal (see “labor hoarding by firms in American recessions, end of”). In earlier decades a 1.2 percentage point rise in unemployment would have meant a $420 billion shortfall in year-2009 nominal GDP, not a $170 billion shortfall.

If I were running the government, I would be trying to make up that GDP shortfall right now: I would be rushing a clean $170 billion–$500 per citizen–aid-to-states-that-maintain-effort package through the congress this week. It would seem the right and the obvious thing to do.

We need an economic hard on right now to create jobs and there are some underlying fundamental changes going on inspycream our mature economy that call for a prescription, not a mail order, phone-it in, feel good cream. Of course rubbing a little cream on it is going to get some kind of a reaction.  It just isn’t necessarily an effective one.  Problem is, they sold us on the cream and many folks bought it.  Now, they are stuck with the continuing flaccid result and a whole lot of skeptics that want to close their billfolds.  I mean, after you have just been given overpriced aspirin by a pharmacist, would you want to give him your repeat business?  Hell, no!

We have an administration with severe attention deficit disorder.  They know what the problems are, they say they’re after solutions, and what we get is some half-baked effort that just winds up costing every one money and grief.  From the economy, financial regulation, and universal health care, to foreign diplomacy and holding the Bush Administration accountable for decimating the Constitution, what we are getting is a whole lot of flitting and skipping around solutions packaged in phony town hall meetings and teleprompter bravado.  The problem is, however, we have a merciless, borderline depression still unfolding (albeit more slowly) and we don’t need policy dilettantism accompanied by an entourage firmly in the Amen Corner.  We need FDR’s vision of send them out to the corners of the world, figure out what works and then do it.  What we have gotten is “we have such great judgment, trust us to take care of it all, eventually!”

Once again, you do not need tax cuts when folks have no income.  If you’re a business, you need customers to get revenues to benefit from tax cuts.  If you’re a household, you need a job above everything else.  Tax breaks do not put customers in front of silent cash registers.  We have states that have balanced budget amendments that have run out of cash.  They can’t stimulate their economies because they have nothing to stimulate with and they must balance those budgets.  That means cutting spending and increasing taxes which means perpetuation of recession with a multiplier effect.

We have the automobile industry, the airline industry, the retail industry; all spinning from lack of customers, lack of financing, lack of everything!  They are unwinding slowly and I see no particular end in sight.  States are laying off teachers, police officers, fire fighters and public servants, and health care givers just as the demand for all the services by an unemployed public will be going up. When we get money in our pockets, most folks go to Walmart which buys the majority of its wares abroad.  That stimulus disappears out there into the ethos.  It does not stay in our towns and grow our economies. We still provide tax incentives to companies that take jobs overseas.  Why is it so difficult to get this?

People cannot fund their spending by credit card and borrowing against severely devalued assets. We’ve lost 10 years of  value and the associated compounding.  People will have to OVER-SAVE to make up for it.  That’s additional recessionary pressure!  This thing isn’t going to go quietly into the night with words of hope and wishful thinking.  This is not a process that a Rules Committee,  Superdelegates, and gamed caucuses can solve!  This is the reality of governing during incredibly tough times.

What part of these simple, simple, simple economic concepts does this administration NOT get?  Is legendary judgment worth more than 60 years of macroeconomic research that has built workable theory?  Is political surrender to a hapless minority worth more than jobs that feed and clothe people?  When will we stop getting these half-baked policies and their accompanying marketing and merchandising to assure us they are doing something?  When do we get the blue pill instead of the sugar pills?  Throw away the herbal creams, apologize, and write a real prescription before more Americans lose everything!

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135 Responses

  1. I’m getting sicker and sicker of excuses for the inept policies of this administration. We have Goldman Sachs running everything. I hear those excuses “Obama has alot on his plate right now”. In fact, one of the GLBT blogs I used to frequent has been on the Koolaid for a long time now. They finally will not accept my comments because they are filled with facts, not rhetoric. DOMA and DADT have to wait. There are much more important things and I agree. However, as we are bleeding jobs and homes, I see this sh** –
    http://tinyurl.com/nzocfl

    • yeah, well, folks just can’t deal with their own cognitive dissonance

    • “DOMA and DADT have to wait. There are much more important things and I agree.”

      With all due respect, it was Obama who bragged and mocked his rivals saying the government could multi-task and do more than one thing at a time.

      Second, as a member of the LGBT community who has faced considerable discrimination in my lifetime. I am not really feeling too bad that those of privilege are finding out what it is like to be without job/home/money. I am tired of waiting to be recognized as a human being who has, despite all the barriers, manages to be a productive, responsible, hardworking contributor to society. The time is now.

  2. The whole “we underestimated” or “we misread” or “we did not have accurate info” (however they spin it) just infuriates me.

    Let’s see, at the time the stimulus passed, congress was told they could not read the bill, they could not take a few days to debate, it had to happen RIGHT NOW.

    Why?

    Because we were facing financial armageddon. Because our entire banking system would collapse. Because the job losses would be crushing. Because if we did not pass this bill RIGHT NOW, there would be freaking martial law in the streets of America.

    So which is it? Are you lying now or were you lying and fear-mongering then? Because if “armageddon and martial law” is a UNDERESTIMATION, then how is it possible to be worse than that? In saying that we underestimated, are you now saying that what faces us is, in your newly revised estimation, WORSE than armageddon, martial law, and the collapse of our entire economy? Is that what you are saying? Really?

  3. WMCB, where lying now or were you lying. probably both . i don’t think that O & any of his O-thugs a capable of telling the truth

  4. It took FDR close to 8 years to get the economy up and running. You folks are expecting Obama to get the economy going in 8 months. You mention the ‘blue pill’. Well the problem is we live in a society that expects immediate results. I’d like to think we can get there without pills. And we will. Patience please.

    • I’m an economist, not an apologist.

    • Also, it did not take 8 years, no one knew what to do at the time, and Roosevelt did some wrong stuff first because no one knew what to do. It took him quite awhile to be desperate enough to try what JM Keynes was suggesting. None of this has to happen now except through malfeasance or malpractice.

      • Yup. He had some missteps, but once it became obvious that drastic action was needed, he sucked it up and DID it.

        • FDR also had to deal with an unfriendly SCOTUS that kept ruling that his New Deal programs were unconstitutional.

          That slowed things down a bit.

    • Bullshit. FDR got busy and created 4 million jobs in TWO MONTHS. Two freaking MONTHS, Obot. He saw how bad it was, and got relief to the people, immediately. Period.

      Read this if you want to see how a leader reacts in the face of an economic crisis. Hint: Excuses and “be patient” and “we’re doing our best” and funneling money to pork and political cronies and bankers are not part of the equation. Obama is not fit to wipe FDR’s ass.

      http://www.slate.com/id/2209781/

      • Oh, and let me add that based on population, 4 million jobs would be the equivalent of almost 18 million jobs today.

        And the man did it in TWO months. Because he had the will, and the drive, and the leadership, and didn’t poll how it would affect his next election. He got out there, sold it to the people, and just DID it, because it was the right thing to do, and necessary.

        Don’t you DARE compare Obama’s anemic mealymouthed pussyfooting to FDR.

      • WMCB
        Note that unemployment from 1932 to 1940 fluctuated between 24% and 15%. That’s a lot worse than today.
        Those jobs that FDR and Hopkins created were temporary. FDR was a damn good president. I won’t deny that. But those first four years did not end the Great Depression. Not by a long shot. He merely put on a band aid. The true healing didn’t come until World War II. What FDR [and his team] did that was effective was set up new regulations as well as Social Security and such.

        • The true healing didn’t come until World War II.

          I’ve heard that one before-from the military-industrial complex.

        • Unemployment figures today merely reflect those actually on unemployment benefits. The true jobless number is now near 15- 20%. Try looking at the alternate data charts, which is much closer to how we figure unemployment during the great depression.

          And stop conflating long-term structural changes with immediate relief. You are the one who took the position that it was okay for Obama to not be seeing any relief yet, because FDR didn’t either. That is simply not true.

          • Please note that the 4 million jobs FDR created in 1933 were gone by the spring on 1934. Gone. They were a temporary fix. Not a long term fix. I’m looking long term.
            The New Deal had an amazing amount of flaws and they did not create jobs. What the New Deal did was get the economy and the banking sectors and the business centers up and running. But it did not filter down to regular folks that quickly.
            And your statistics are shaky at best. Why would you think more jobs would be created today as opposed to 1933? What you are saying is that if it took 50 people to build a bridge in 1933 it would take 150 people to build it today. No way. Dollars change over time. The number of people doing a job does not.

          • I’ll tell you what, ModDem. Make a commitment to check back in here in 6 months, then again in a year, etc.

            I have no qualms about giving you an open invitation to come back here and say “I told you so” if things drastically improve. Because every piece of data I’m looking at says they will not, so long as Obama keeps working on behalf of the bankers, and actively helping them cover up their malfeasance and hide their continuing bad balance sheets.

        • ModDem – are you suggesting that bridge being built in Missouri with stimulus funding is a PERMANENT job for the employees?
          How longggggg is that bridge?
          lol

          • Not at all. I’m saying exactly what you are saying. These jobs won’t be permanent. Everybody wants immediate relief. But they don’t seem to realize that immediate relief will only be temporary.
            It will take at least 4 years for the economy to recover and for the jobless rates to come down. This is common sense.

          • modem you have contradicted yourself very effectively. FDR created jobs that were not permanent. Obama is still losing jobs.

    • If we’re patient enough, a corrupt Republican moron will become FDR? That’s amazing. What’s the ballpark on that, 14 billion years?

    • guessing you didn’t read krugman’s column about the boiling frog. these things have a long lag time, we need action NOW to get results in the future. let’s wait and see how the inadequate stimulus plays out is just not going to cut it. koolaid and fake hope aren’t going to get us where we need to be. my husband has been out of work since feb. 2008 and we don’t have a lot of time left before we have to move into my mother-in-law’s basement (NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!)

    • Ready on Day 897,765,247,789,975,432,987,467,865. Uh, maybe. If we’re really, really lucky. Maybe later.

    • You folks are expecting Obama to get the economy going in 8 months.

      The problem is we don’t believe Obama will fix the economy in 8 years.

      (BTW a stimulus package riddled with tax breaks is by no stretch of the imagination Job Stimulation. In fact it’s same ole Trickle Down</i.)

      • Yep…and “trickle down” is code for “we’re pissing on your heads.”

    • How long do we wait? Until the tunnel for the turtles in FL to cross the road has been built?

      • Until Pelosi’s 16 million to study threatened marsh mice is over?

        I am very much into preserving species. I proudly donate to several conservationist organizations. But that is NOT what this money was supposed to be for. If I give someone my money to buy sorely needed groceries for my family, and they spend it on a fat donation to the Sierra Club, I have very right to be PISSED OFF – and that does not mean I am anti-conservation.

        • Apparently, most of the stimulus funding awarded THROUGH the states – has stayed in the states’ budgets to pay for existing programs and avoid states raising taxes.
          But that’s “keeping jobs” – not creating jobs.

          • You just don’t understand 11th dimensional chess. He has a secret plan to end the war. I mean economic crisis.

    • Blame this comment on the pain meds I’m taking, if you like, but the biggest difference between FDR and Obama is this: the former actually gave a shit about the struggling populace and a shaky nation, while the latter is eternally focused above all on his personal popularity quotient. The brass ring is all to Obama, the whole enchilada. FDR had depth and a capacity for growth, Obama never will. Barring divine economic intervention, I’d say we’re screwed.

      • lol! well said. Let’s not forget Obama’s south side constituants from back in the day . They froze in unheated apts as he partied down with thier slumlord , Rezko ….

    • Patience my foot. We put someone in office with no experience in anything. I thought Bush was inexperienced….obama makes Bush look pretty good. Hold on….I didn’t vote for Bush. Didn’t like him…never supported him. A democrat for over 50 years. We have a problem.

    • LOL, yeah Obama is playing 11th dimensional kung fu voodoo, double secret chess with three twist and a jackknife while the rest of us non kool aid drinkers are playing checkers…right?

  5. The way I see it, Obama is an acceleratorist. Hey, moddeem, you remain patient at the starting line and he will run the heck over you before you know it. Geesh wake up!

    Anybody who was paying attention knew things were worse than the “people in the know” thought.

  6. & by the way BO on no FDR hes more like GHW

  7. Terrific Econ Cliff Notes for the common sense challenged…thank you. This is one I will forward to friends for its succinct wisdom.

    p.s. Maybe you should write more posts when you are pissed off….LOL….it adds wonderful clarity and thrust (bad word choice, eh?) to writings which sometimes read (for me) as dry academic lectures. Snark + economic commentary: it’s a GOOD thing!

  8. Silencing Single Payer (Obama blocks Single Payer HR 676…WHY?)

    • The nurses and small business know that Single Payer is the one way to boost the economy and get Health Care to All Americans, yet Obama is blocking it. Why? Who got taken care of first; Wall Street!
      Who is asking for a second Stimulus Package; Wall Street! Who wants another round of million dollar bonuses (1/2 a billion for 50 people in just one company): Wall Street!

      So, why aren’t the working folks getting a Stimulus via Single Payer? Who does Obama represent? It is bad enough people are loosing their jobs, but it is shameful that they can’t get health care. When is a person more likely to get ill? After loosing their jobs due to stress and lack of resources. ClaSSism is alive and well in America and the debasing of working folks continues.

      No one is telling about the large co-pays and large payments that people will have to make in an Obama plan (reform is all smoke and mirrors). The meme that the insurance companies are cooperating is BULL…they just raised premiums this July more than 10%…Joe Biden doesn’t know what he is talking about, remember he gets GOVERNMENT COVERED HEALTH CARE via you and me…those little tax payers.

      • he is blocking it because he is gutless, afraid of the conversation. Some one said the other day that it would be off the table with Hillary, but I do not believe so. I think even if it were not her first impulse for health care reform she would have made it part of the conversation. And eventually, like Gore she would come to see it for the best solution.
        Problem is that we HAVE to discuss it for Americans to be educated on what it means so that they are less prone to fall for conservative lies on the topic. But Obama has decided to dumb down the population in his own self interest.

        • Hillary didn’t run Harry and Louise ads. Obama did. He wasn’t for a universal system and said that government health care meant asking poor people to choose between rent or health care. People that are surprised that he isn’t supporting single payer that voted for him simply weren’t paying attention. They need to blame themselves, moreso then Obama for blowing the opportunity.

  9. It took FDR close to 8 years to get the economy up and running. You folks are expecting Obama to get the economy going in 8 months.

    Are you suggesting FDR started WWII? It’s the only way your comment makes even a small amount of sense.

    • Not sure what you are saying?
      I’m suggesting no such thing.
      What I’m saying is FDR did a lot of things in the New Deal to get the economy going. Some programs worked some didn’t and others were temporary fixes. However, [and every historian knows this] the economy of the US did not pick up until World War II. The reason being that the GNP rose as did the number of jobs needed to fight the war effort.
      We officially came out of the Depression during World War II. That is all I’m saying. It helped us.
      And so with that in mind these things take time. One can disagree with Obama’s approach. But note that FDR did not get us out of the Depression that quickly. And it took more than just a bunch of quick fix programs to get us out.

        • United States
          Great Depression Began 1929:3
          Recovery started: 1933:2

          • and FDR didn’t sign any substantial fiscal stuff until this:

            Jun 16, 1933 – It came on 16 June 1933. On that date President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed the National Industrial Recovery Act as one major weapon to fight the Great Depression. He apportioned $238 million under the act to construct thirty-two ships for the Navy, among …It came on 16 June 1933. On that date President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed the National Industrial Recovery Act as one major weapon to fight the Great Depression. He apportioned $238 million under the act to construct thirty-two ships for the Navy, among them four submarines. Rickover felt the effect of the legislation. He spent much of July and August at the facilities of battery manufacturers, among them the Electric Storage Battery Company.

          • Why are you using facts against such perfectly good arguments. :-)

          • There may not be a direct causal relationship between the recovery and WWII. I’ll admit that. [Even though I maintain that there is a connection]. Although I am not saying recovery was not in the works. I’m saying WWII helped us get over the hump as it were.
            The salient fact remains that the Depression did not end until 1940 or 1941 and we just happened to be ramping up for war. And so that fits exactly with my original comment on the subject – which is these things take time. There is no silver bullet and FDR knew this. So does Obama.
            This article approaches the WWII subject thoughtfully.
            http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/02/did_world_war_ii_end_the_great.php

          • Hmmmm. So once we invade Iran (or N. Korea or Pakistan, or whoever) and drag the rest of the world into it then we’ll start to see a recovery. Okay, I think I’m finally getting a hand on this 11D Obama-la-la “logic.” Just start WWIII and our economic woes will all go away. War is Wealth. Or is that Wealth is War? Damn, I’m still confused.

        • Great show ModDummy, dak gives you a treatise from a respected economist and you respect with a story from the Atlantic magazine by a libertarian blogger.

          You’ve been outclassed. Now get lost.

      • Congratulation Moron. You have chugged the entire kool-aid provision for your detachment.

      • modem, do you even realize how republican Obama’s stimulus was/is? He shoved money at millionaires who supported him in the election because he believes in the trickle-down theory of economics…. and campaign cash.
        It is not working, it is not going to work. Now my guess is that he is hoping that things just magically get better because he doesn’t have the will or the knowledge to do anything else.

        • He compromised stuff like smoking cessation or low cost birth control(which would hav e helped low income individuals) and still didn’t get a single GOP vote. He’s either a friggin moron or corrupt just like the buffon before him.

          Then again, I realized he wasn’t an economic genuis when he had his advisers out laughing at Hillary when she suggested money needed to be spent on infrastructure months before it became the popular opinion (Then again, God forbid they listen to a mere girl when it might involve math and stuff- we all know how “inferior” we are to men in that kind of stuff just ask Summers-tongue firmly in cheek)

    • No, we are just not dumb enough to believe that the ‘poor millionaires’ need to be taken care of first before the working folks and that the ‘poor millionaires’ need another Stimulus Package, but Obama is busy blocking Single Payer (won’t even let it onto the table of discussions).

      It would appear that he is ALL Ivy League and represents the rich and those poor suffering ‘millionaires’ while 60 Americans die each day without Health Care!

      He has control of the Senate, the Congress and he is POTUS, there really are NO EXCUSES, it is time to deliver the promises!

      • well said.

      • While the DC insiders are blocking single payer, which a clear majority of Americans want, support for their own health care plans drop. A majority now oppose them.

        http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/healthcare/july_2009/49_oppose_health_care_reform_plan_46_favor_it

        “Forty-nine percent (49%) of U.S. voters now at least somewhat oppose the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats, while 46% at least somewhat favor it, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. “

        • Yes, especially when they learn that some plans have a 20% to 30% that the ‘insured’ has to pay, in addition to their deductible and that could very likely send them into bankruptcy. So, the voters are wising up and us that have saw the over 10% increase in premiums this JULY in a RECESSION, understand that Single Payer is the only way to go.

          It is amazing that they think the the ‘poor millionaires’ in Wall Street should get another ‘Stimulus Package’ and the working folks get NADA!

          • Just to simplify everything. They are running into political difficulty because they’re selling the middle class a pain sandwich; more taxes in exchange for more health care cuts.

            It would have been smarter to sell universal health care as offering Medicare-like security for all. HR676 anyone? And it will fit on a bumper sticker.

      • He has control of the Senate?! That’s hilarious. No President have ever had control of Congress. Just how is Obama supposed to make Congress vote for Universal healthcare?
        Congress actually has control of him. That is almost always the case. The President can only do so much. Congress has to enact and vote for the laws in order for them to happen.
        [Note that I agree the Democrats in Congress are idiots if they let this get away and don't vote for it. We need Universal healthcare and I'm pushing my Senators to take action and vote sooner than later.]

        • He and his (( cough cough )) popularity should get him the solidarity of the 60 dems voting for cloture and letting the bill get an up or down majority vote. These talking points about needing sixty votes is BS. Only 51 is needed. The only way it doesn’t get a vote is if a DEMOCRAT filibusters.

          stop the BS.

        • in fact a popular president with an overwhelming majority of his party in congress has incredible power. He is just afraid to use it to do the right thing for the people. Instead he is playing politics and worrying about his next election. Plus, he sincerely doesn’t want to piss off his most important donors, the corporations.

        • He’s the Party leader. If he wasn’t up for the job of controlling the direction the country goes in, he shouldn’t have applied for the job. Frankly, I’m tired of his whining about how he inherited the problems. He sounds like Bush did when he whined incessantly that HE inherited his problems from Clinton.

          • Right on. Obama didn’t “inherit” the problems anyway. He actively campaigned for them and spent a whole helluva lot of money to buy the presidency. He bought the freakin’ problems and now he OWNS them.

  10. “This is not a process that a Rules Committee, Superdelegates, and gamed caucuses can solve!”

    Yeah; problem is that sort of trickery is all they know how to do.

  11. Wow, that post was, whew… creams and stimulus and… Was it as good for you as it was for me. I need a cigarette. :-)

    • hey just remember, because it does something for one party doesn’t mean the other party gets satisfied …

      especially if the tool is inadequate to the task at hand

      ;-)

    • I normally don’t half understand ahem talk, but must give dakinikat credit for using terminology that will bring their attention span to the on-going problems. As it would appear they are to self involved to notice that there isn’t any ‘Stimulus’ happening in the economy.

      Those of us in retail sales know that, our employees know that, those being laid off know that, those with no health care know that, but Obama Cheer Leaders seem to be missing it.

      Oh, NO SMOKING allowed while President Obama is trying to QUIT without much success…

  12. When will we stop getting these half-baked policies and their accompanying marketing and merchandising to assure us they are doing something?

    I love this point. It’s unbelievable but the Obama administration is just a continuation of the Obama campaign. Just as he spent his time as Senator running for President, so it seems he’ll spend his time as President running for… President! Marketing and branding doesn’t get a damn thing done when it comes to running a freakin’ country.

    • but ,but, but he’s transformational. Who needs policy positions when you can have Hope and Change? blah blah blah he’s the same as Hillary except on policy positions such as health care or the first economic stimulus where she actually wanted to fund infrastructure months before him……….(rolling eyes)

      • Obama is the ultimate Empty Calorie President. Just what a nation starved for substance and sustenance needed. Oh, but the MSM wrapped him up so nice and pretty… Bastards.

  13. He thinks that because he extended unemployment benefits that he’s taken care of all of us out here who have lost their jobs. 3 months worth…and then….nothing, except the unemployment rate will be even higher, and he will have succeeded in equalizing all of us. No more middle class/middle to upper middle class…we can all shiver in the tenements this coming winter just like his constituents in Chicago’s south side did.

    But hey, he will have eliminated any advantage that one group had over the other…other than his campaign contributors…and still no one seems to get the part that some of the current clowns played in the lead up to this mess.

    I would sure like to know who was shorting the market back mid September last year. Remember Jim Cramer’s comment about financial terrorism? Said he knows the usual players and whoever was doing it, it wasn’t the guys he would expect…never heard another peep about that. I still suspect this crunch was accelerated when McCain/Palin pulled ahead after the convention by 3 pts…I think this whole mess was manufactured for political reasons and then they couldn’t contain it. Or maybe it was Soros just attacking another currency (yaw), nothing to see here, move along.

    So the good news is that health care jobs are growing; unfortunately the bad news is that a lot of hospitals may have troubles as their endowments were devalued like every other investor’s.

    A three month extension of unemployment benefits while billions are being funnelled to crooks and those receiving the funds are still free to outsource their jobs with no penalty. I recall reading about BOA sending their back office operation to India shortly after they received TARP funds. No wonder there is no economic result of any of these measures. As you point out, what money any of us have is spent on goods that are imported, and what jobs are left are being exported. Those that can’t be exported, can’t be paid for by states who have had to pick up the slack for program cuts, and a freefall in property tax and income tax revenues.

    It shouldn’t take a genius to figure out that this can’t possibly work as it stands.

    • The problem is businesses need banks in order to stay afloat and pay their employees.Banks are essential to the process.
      There is also just no way to create long term jobs if the private sector does not get the help it needs. And that usually comes in the forms of tax breaks and incentives.
      Obama can create short term jobs with stimulus packages – but everyone in Washington knows you need the private sector to pull us out. Each state governor has to find a way to keep businesses in business and in the states rather than going overseas.
      How does the government do that? It’s not an easy solution.

      • shhh, don’t tell any one this, but jobs are jobs, private sector or not!

        • LOL. moddem thinks I’m unemployed but actually I have a job (in the public sector).

      • are you a republican? You are exactly wrong, the only thing that stimulates the economy is demand NOT tax breaks and incentives. Give ABC Inc a billion dollars and they still will not hire a single person or create a single product or service. Until people are buying you can bail out every business in America and it won’t put a single fucking loaf of bread on anyone’s table except the people who still have jobs at those corporations and those are the executives.
        It is clear that Obama doesn’t understand this and neither do you.

        • Probably not republican, more like schizophrenic. That’s what you get trying to defend the indefensible O.

          You know there is trouble in Mudville when a Libertarian blogger is posted to refute a paper from one of Obama’s advisors by an Opologist!

      • Banks may be essential but there was absolutely no reason to hand them a blank check, which is what this administration and Congress essentailly did.

        The solution would be alot easier if Obama didn’t insist on playing footsies with corporatge America on everything from banking to health care.

  14. So now the excuse for Obama’s piss-poor performance is that FDR’s solutions were only “temporary” while the Great Chosen One’s plan is long-term. Well, here’s what one of the New Deal’s architects had to say about that:

    ” A U.S. senator once asked Harry Hopkins, top aide to President Franklin D. Roosevelt, whether federal jobs programs were a wise idea “in the long run.”

    “People don’t eat in the long run, senator,” Hopkins retorted, “they eat every day.”

    http://www.sacbee.com/ourregion/story/1868127.html

  15. Maybe this is what the Obots don’t like about the New Deal (from a right-wing site):

    “FDR railed against “economic royalists” and “privileged princes” who sought to establish an “industrial dictatorship” and a “new despotism.” Roosevelt issued about 3,700 executive orders, many limiting business activity, and let lose a plague of anti-trust lawyers on American industry.”

    Oh the HORROR…

    But it gets worse:

    “FDR nearly tripled the tax burden between 1933 and 1940, boosting excise, income, inheritance, corporate, and dividend taxes and slapping a tax on “excess profits.” The highest individual tax rate soared to 79%.”

    NO. STOP!!!

    http://www.minyanville.com/articles/MER-GS-MCO-ms/index/a/15389

    • Dancing: That is in fact the activity FDR engaged in that threw the economy back into a deep depression. He gets no kudos for those acts.

  16. but he and his thugs want a secound term. I really believe he thought he could appoint a lot of people who had been in other administrations and they would advise him and it would be okay that he has no real political ideas or theories of his own. So he chose some people from Bush and some people from Clinton and he listened to his closest adviser and friends Rahm “let me throw millions at losing blue dog congressional races and falsely claim that the take back of congress was my accomplishment” Emanuel and we have a mess. Christ, Emanuel as Chief of staff is an insult to Leo McGarry, who was a better one on TV than Emanuel could ever be in true life, much less others who have done the job.

  17. ModDem, on July 13th, 2009 at 12:07 pm Said:

    ….Patience please.

    Wow…looks like the OFA has distilled their obot talking points instructional memos down to easy-to-recite tag phrases.

    • obama bless us everyone!!!

    • Talking points are usually not difficult to spot though. These have been repeated over at JSOM’s by the same guy.

    • Doesn’t that seem familiar? I believe that was how Republicans led when they were in control too. Sloganeering……it’s a sad substitute for principles.

    • Donna Brazile’s column suggests: “A little patience is needed.” My conservative newspaper sums gives her column the title “Patience – the stimulus plan will work.”

    • Is that the same as keep still while we insert this…

  18. we are being taken over from within.

  19. So glad to see you bak Daki. Heard Paul K. on Maria B. at msnbc. He is consistent in calling for a bigger package. I don’t think the tax breaks were a mistake. I think the mistake was that all the stimulus “real” dollars are not going to get into the economy until 2010 and it is now clear to me that the timing was totally politically motivated even tho’ it may be late enough to back fire. If it backfires the Dems should get their just desserts. What about the Bush tax cuts scheduled to expire in 2010?

    Big mistake to fail to really help the states. Up close the state help that has happened is wrapped in all kinds of red tape. There is a real mixed message and in many places it is way too late. I hear that “walkaways” are becoming a major problem—people who can afford their house payments but have lost so much value in their home value that they are just walking away and taking the credit hit.

    • The two parties are the ‘Political Class’ and the ‘Rest of Us’. The political class just uses the labels democrat and republican to distract us. We cannot use the old labels anymore.

    • I am also concerned that the first stimulus isn’t spent yet. I’ve read articles that they’re saving it for a slush fund for the 2010 elections and also to all of a sudden throw it into the economy to manipulate voters for those elections.

      I’m not good on economic stuff, but I can’t get behind a new stimulus package, when the first one hasn’t even been spent. It’s just too fishy and doesn’t make sense to me. If we need the help (and we do), put the first dollars to use!

  20. Excellent analysis, dakinikat. Too bad the President cannot perform.

  21. I think we need some econ 101 here. Right now tax breaks are probably not going to do any good but if you go back to Clinton and back to JFK we got great leverage from tax breaks because the high end taxes were really HIGH. Now they are modest so it won’t help. But you should take a look at the CA case and be careful what you wish for. Decades of Dem control of the legislature and usually the gov. office. We have all kinds of environmental mandates and consumer protections. We have health care and education for hundreds of thousands of children of illegal immigrants. We have a sales tax @ 8.75% and in some places it is 9%. We now have a 26 billion $$$ budget deficit and no solution in sight. We have state payments in IOUs that are no longer being accepted by banks, even tho’ they carry a 3.75% interest payment. It is a huge mess; Dems have no self-control and the Repubs keep backing themselves into a “no new taxes” corner. Most people think both parties are crooks and liars. In a crucial vote to approve propositions for a bailout in May only 26% of registered voters voted—-and they voted no way except to refuse pay to legislators if they failed to pass a balanced budget.

    Everyone thinks this is just CA granola, yogurt, oranges and nuts—but if you think Democrats have the answers and somehow they will make a better place to live—-be careful what you ask for; beware. And I am a lifelong Dem voter. I can only apologize to those who come after me. I did not know my party could be so greedy, stupid and corrupt.

    • We’ve got an 8.25% sales tax where I live in TX, but no income tax. Historically, there has been very little difference fiscally between Democrats and Republicans here. They are both tight-fisted as hell. Their more relaxed regulations have brought several fleeing businesses here from CA.

      TX could do a much better job of providing benefits to it’s citizens but there’s little or no clamor for it. We manage to get along without them.

      Good luck to CA. I hate to think what your fall will do to the rest of the country.

  22. Warren Buffett: Second stimulus may be needed, first was like Viagra candy (via Calculated Risk)

    • OK, what’s with all the sex talk. First this post, then Krugman with his “big package” and now Buffett with this viagra candy. I think lots of people need “jobs” :-)

    • Well call me crazee but somehow one of the richest men in the world who also supported Obama giving advice about what the economy “needs” is of no comfort.

  23. I followed a link over at Corrente and read this and saw it as interesting.

    http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2009/07/schwarznegger-to-obama-watch-and-learn_12.html

    It’d be cool to see a post discussing the ramifications of allowing California to use IOUs as legal tender. It’s also interesting because of Obama’s refusal to help California I wonder if he will be the first Democrat to lose those 56 electoral votes.

    • I don’t think it could be because the fiat law grants that to the FEDS alone.

      • If the constitution forbids states from “issuing bills of credit” or other legal tender, isn’t that what these IOU’s are? And wouldn’t that make them unconstitutional?

        Of course, it does allow states to pay their debts with gold or silver coin – hey, there’s an idea! Maybe Ahnold should try that one. *snerk*

        • The federal government would have to challenge it though. 56 electoral votes could hang in the balance were he to challenge it.

          Since 47 states face shortfalls things could get interesting. As it is states are using the funds already given to fill in the gaps due the hit they are taking from the downturn. If things don’t turn around Obama is in some deep deep kimshee.

      • and yet they appear to be voting on allowing it to be used as legal tender in the state. Obama is caught between a rock and a hard place because if he says that they can not use it as legal tender and need to address their budget crisis then he risks putting himself at risk there come 2012 with the electorate. If he does nothing he risks other states with fiscal budgetary problems following suit.

      • Back to The Articles of Confederation. This is a lot like secession by another name. The Feds will have to challenge this the Constitutional scope is too wide and deep to stand.

        • If they challenge it though how do you think it will effect his chance of capturing California in 2012? I figure he’ll wait until another state tries it(or hope that another one doesn’t).

    • I heard on the news today that only two banks here are accepting those IOUs, and neither of them is very represented here in CA- so most people are out of luck with those IOUs.

      • Credit Unions are accepting them , and the state itself is looking at allowing it to be utilized to pay state taxes.

  24. A second “stimulus” cannot happen. There is no place to get the money. We’re maxed out. From where does it come? There are only 3 places: taxes, gov’t issued debt, or the printing press/money supply.

    With taxes, it is a politically bad idea and it slows economic productivity (less money in pockets and bank accounts means less money for lending = more business slowdown).

    Gov’t issued debt? Who buys? The US in near its limit. It’s pretty well known the Chinese are balking at buying–even their college students laughed at Geithner a few weeks ago. Plus there are those little issues of being held accountable to them and paying them back.

    As for ‘printing’ (or expanding the money supply, an action which is compounded by the fractional reserve lending system), we are almost out of the proverbial ink already. “From the first quarter of 2008 to the first quarter of 2009, the monetary base increased from $96.2 billion to $820.8 billion, an inconceivable annual rate of 753%.” (From “When Stimulus Does Not Stimulate by Shawn Ritenour, http://www.mises.org/story/3535 ) That is mega inflation–no argument about it. We have not detected its effects on prices yet, but that will come eventually. I just don’t think Bernanke can push any more on us, especially when what we care about–prices going up–starts to happen. And if the economy starts churning he won’t be able to contract the money supply without a severe impact. It’s just gone way too far.

    I’m not exactly sure what’s going on here, but maybe it’s one of two things: 1) they are putting out this ‘we didn’t realize’ meme, saying we need a second stimulus and when it doesn’t happen (for a myriad of reasons) they can say ‘the economy stinks because you didn’t let us do the second stimulus’ for the next several years, thereby absolving themselves of responsibility OR 2) they want the second stimulus to bring us closer to and perhaps over the edge of economic collapse, causing such upheaval as to ‘necessitate’ total government intervention in every aspect of our lives (with force when they choose). I think it’s the first because they just want to keep us following the carrot on the stick–it’s less difficult than a total reorganization of society.

    Economics is often mired in politics, and Krugman is not immune to the siren songs. But there is a cadre of economists out there who regularly and solidly refute him and the rest of the Keynesians: William Anderson, George Reisman, Robert P. Murphy (author of The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Great Depression and the New Deal) and Thomas E. Woods, Jr. (whose NYT bestseller Meltdown, was refused a review by the NYT, and which, btw, is an excellent book) and Peter Schiff (although he’s a financial adviser not an economist) are some. They are all solid and should be read by anyone desiring to give a fair shake to both sides of the issue.

    Here’s one recent article by Anderson: http://mises.org/story/3526 and some on the folly of Keynsianism: http://capitalisthero.com/Keynesian_Economics.php and http://mises.org/story/3413

    The first “stimulus” did not work for reasons stated by this school of economics. It would not have mattered if it were bigger. We cannot spend our way into prosperity. And our rulers’ whims (their sweeping decisions based on their limited viewpoints and/or their lobbists’ selfish influences) will not allocate a given supply of money more efficiently than the hundreds of millions of people who participate in our economy on a daily basis will, dollar by dollar. If our rulers do not stop intervening, we will suffocate under a heavy mountain of debt and waste–of money and time.

    • Keynesian economics works just fine and we’ve got some room to borrow still. It’s not the overall size, it’s the comparative size of debt to gdp. We ran World War 2 on war bonds we sold ourselves, essentially and our deficit was huge then. Our debt can be turned over in perpetuity within reason.

      Again, jobs are jobs and it doesn’t make any difference who pays the payroll. We have infrastructure still used from the depression … think the golden gate bridge and the blue star memorial highways. Jobs that build these things provide just as much value, if not more, than folks that sew the toes of tennis socks.

      You cannot look at fiscal spending and debt in the same sense that you look at a household’s income and debt because households die and come to an end.

      We need to provide jobs that provide income and then the people that participate in the economy will get the ball rolling.

      You’re quoting economics from the Austrian school which is akin to quoting politics from Lyndon Larouche . They are nuts and can’t get anything published in the serious theoretical journals or places. Only in their own rags. I’d stay far away from that site. They’re the scientologists of economics.

      • And coincidentally we could really use an overhaul in a lot of our infrastructure from the power grid to bridges and dams and roads, to fiber for a beefed up internet to be able to compete with even third world countries in that utility. Gosh, if only Obama had actual experience and wasn’t owned by GS, he might have made his stimulus package be a serious rebuilding infrastructure jobs program. If only. I’m not holding my breath.

        • The morons supposedly wanted “shovel ready” jobs and yet somehow failed to use some of the funds for exactly that. There were jobs in the pipes for the Transport department but supposedly it will run out of funds in August for projects it already has in the works. D’oh.

          Those boys sure are some mathematical geniuses though eh?

          • I’ve been watching them travel around the country trying to sell this shiest … I’d say most of US need to be shovel ready.

      • OMG I love watching Lyndon Larouche. He’s so batsh!t that it’s funny. Of course it’s embarrassing that he’s here in my state.

      • If Keynesian economics ‘worked fine’ we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in right now. The Fed has been priming the pump for years through its monetary policy and easy credit. Our legislators have only added to the problems.

        (The Fed is a consortium of private bankers. The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 was written by Rockefeller and other bankers. It took the control of the monetary system away from Congress (which is what is Constitutionally mandated) and put it in the hands of these private people. The Fed has miserably failed in both of it’s supposed charters, protecting the value of the dollar, which has lost nearly 97% of its value since 1913, and smoothing business cycles, which they didn’t do most recently for the tech, housing & credit bubbles).

        Henry Hazlitt wrote an excellent book, The Failure of New Economics, which debunks Keynes’ general theory point by point. It is Keynes who is the witch doctor of economics. Politicians tout Keynes (without really understanding him) because his faulty theories fit right in with their desire to increase their own power and scope of control.

        The size of debt to GDP is important, yes, but about 70% of today’s GDP is consumer spending. Consumer spending is a consumptive rather than a productive type spending. There is no asset, no wealth produced as a result of it, so we should be taking that into account. Another huge chunk of GDP is government spending, of which a great deal is consumptive, too.

        Turning over debt within reason is OK, but it’s way past the point of reason. When the next two generations will just be servicing the debt instead of paying it down, it is too much. It’s immoral and probably affects our national security. Plus the fact still remains that China is balking at taking on more of it.

        Yes, jobs are jobs, and I am not against government projects per se but the priority should be getting our economy back to a normal, sustainable state first which means allowing prices to reset in housing and credit (as opposed to propping up the bubbles), allowing people to save (which provides banks money for lending to businesses and entrepreneurs–and therein lies a great deal of potential for our recovery) rather than saying that’s a bad thing (as Krugman does), and allowing businesses that flopped to go through the orderly and healthy process of bankruptcy (or dismantling) rather than letting the government prop them up no matter how badly they were managed or how low the demand for their product was. I’ll even put the argument about government’s potential for inefficiency aside and just paraphrase the author of the article I cited above: we should first allow productive American citizens to determine what to do with their own scarce resources rather than letting the state step in and dictate how they will be used at this time.

        As for the increase in the size of the monetary base, what say you? It is alarming, isn’t it? This is the classic definition of inflation ( http://mises.org/story/2914 ), and price increases are sure to follow eventually.

        I want to make clear to anyone reading this that LaRouche and scientology have nothing to do with Austrian Economics–they were just being used in metaphors.

        The Austrian School is not “nuts”. I have been reading both sides, meaning the Keynesians AND the Austrians, for months now and I stand by my assertion that they have solid reasoning. No one should just take my word for it, though. Here is one of their writers, Dr. George Reisman from Pepperdine University: Standing Keynesianism on It’s Head http://mises.org/story/3424 Solid reasoning. (I have to admit, he’s one of my faves. Here’s a list of his articles: http://mises.org/articles.aspx?AuthorId=143 You can also download his book for free from there (instructions under the picture).)

        Again, economics is often mired in politics. And we all know how the game of politics twists everything. Please note that one of the Austrian School’s founders, Friedrick Hayek, won the Nobel Prize in Economics in 1974 for his business cycle theory, a topic that is incredibly timely for us, so apparently the Nobel Committee did not think he was nuts. Here is a bio: http://www.mises.org/about/3234 Contrast this with Krugman, whose Nobel was awarded for his new trade theory. It was brilliant, but highly technical and narrow in scope. I know Krugman is popular and well liked, but this is not the same thing as being correct in absolutely everything he says about the economy.

        I encourage people to read about both of these laureates, their work, and their critics and then decide for themselves what to think.

  25. What we see is that by playing on right-wing turf Obama has achieved very little and simply opened himself up to attacks that he is doing “too much” rather than too little. Unfortunately he won’t be the only one paying when his right-wing policies fail and then are presented in the MSM as the failure of liberalism.

  26. Anybody who bought something they didn’t understand, willingly trusting a Wall Streeter to look out for investors, contributed to the debacle. It ain’t brain surgery. If it’s pulling down cash hand over fist and bamboozle is the word used by the politician who’s doin’ the bamming, received more political cash from WS Banks than the rest of the Senate combined (in a mere three years, no less) and declared “the One” by Oprah Winfrey who has a couple of real bogus recommendations in her recent heydey, … My Fellow Americans: close yer eyes and savor the symphony of his speeches. Ax & Raum are politics to the wall. They don’t think like your problems are their problems. They get called “brilliant” daily. What do they call YOU?

    • I figure they’re calling the progressives what Bush’s people called the evangelicals…..a bunch of loony rubes that you placate when it gets closer to election time.

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