An Economic Exercise in Wishful Thinking

Warning:  Shouldn't before making economic policy during desperate times.

Warning: Do NOT use before making economic policy.

In today’s NY Times, David Leonhardt is very clear about the role of hope and wishful thinking among the Obama economics team.  They got the unemployment numbers very, very wrong and as a result, we got a stimulus package that was underdesigned and oversold.  If you read me or for that matter, Paul Krugman or Joseph Stiglitz, you were warned about the likely result.   While this m.o. among Obama and his minions comes as no surprise to folks here, we’re beginning to see the resulting shock and awe as every one else awakens to policy based on the empty rhetoric of hope and no real change.  Precious time, political majorities and capital are being wasted on an enhanced status quo.

In the weeks just before President Obama took office, his economic advisers made a mistake. They got a little carried away with hope.

To make the case for a big stimulus package, they released their economic forecast for the next few years. Without the stimulus, they saw the unemployment rate — then 7.2 percent — rising above 8 percent in 2009 and peaking at 9 percent next year. With the stimulus, the advisers said, unemployment would probably peak at 8 percent late this year.

We now know that this forecast was terribly optimistic. The jobless rate has already reached 9.4 percent. On Thursday, the Labor Department will announce the latest number, for June, and forecasters are expecting it to rise further. In concrete terms, the difference between the situation that the Obama advisers predicted and the one that has come to pass is about 2.5 million jobs. It’s as if every worker in the city of Los Angeles received an unexpected layoff notice.

There are some fundamental things in the labor market that the Obama Team somehow overlooked.  The first is the unwinding of the automobile network and all the supporting infrastructure around the supply and sales chain.  The second is the impact on the states of low tax revenues and high unemployment insurance payouts.  Some how, in focusing on the impact of the financial crisis, they appeared to haven forgotten some basic underlying macroeconomic dynamics.  At least, that is my take. They  may have kept their eye on the ball, but they failed to look around the bigger field of play.

Leonhardt points to two possible explanations as to why so many very bright people got it so wrong.  He argues that because the stimulus package was designed poorly and hurried through with the rosy scenario coloring the numbers, that it is possible that the stimulus package has done nothing and that as a result, things are getting worse.  That’s hypothesis number one.  His second hypothesis is the more likely one in both his and my opinion.  That is that the economy is deteriorating further and this is despite of the stimulus.  Again, this would be due to a bad forecast and an even worse policy prescription.  So he’s laid out the ground work for the big question while giving a slight nod to some potential for the stimulus plan.

The stimulus package does seem to have helped. But its impact has been minor — so fahand-da-vincir — compared with the harshness of the Great Recession.

Unfortunately, the administration’s rose-colored forecast has muddied this picture. So if at some point this year or next the White House decides that the economy needs more stimulus, skeptics will surely brandish that old forecast.

Worst of all, the economy really may need more help.

Well, you know, on the one hand, on the other hand.  However, whichever hand you choose, this is a policy failure we couldn’t afford.

Leonhard does try to put the impact of the stimulus into perspective.

There is no ironclad way to judge the stimulus, because we can’t rerun the last six months in an alternate universe. But you can get a pretty good sense by looking at the size of the gap between where the economy is today and where the administration thought it would be: those 2.5 million jobs that would still exist if the forecast had been right.

This gap is just far too large to be explained by the stimulus. The plan that Mr. Obama signed definitely has its flaws. It spends money more slowly than is ideal and spends some of it on projects of little long-term value. But no stimulus package could have come close to preventing 2.5 million job losses over six months.

For starters, a stimulus package doesn’t affect the job market immediately because most employers don’t hire or fire workers as soon as they sense their business shifting. That’s why economists refer to employment as a lagging indicator.

When private economists began analyzing various stimulus proposals in January, they said that none would have a major effect on the jobless rate until the end of the year. By June, the effect would be only a few tenths of a percentage point, which translates into several hundred thousand jobs.

The stimulus that passed may in fact be having an impact of roughly this scale. Consumer spending, after plummeting late last year, is up slightly this year, despite a continuing rise in the savings rate. This combination suggests that spending would still be falling if not for the tax cuts in the stimulus.

So again, this means we’ve seen a moderation but no real change.  I’m again, going to use the term enhanced status quo, because that appears to be what we are seeing in this analysis.  There are still some major shifts happening in the underlying economy and these folks can no longer ignore them.

First, there is a serious movement away from the high, debt-funded consumption of yesteryear.  The marginal propensity to consume is falling, the marginal propensity to save is increasing and this will undoubtedly impact the policy multipliers from now on.  Fiscal policy will have to be bigger.  You can also discount the multiplier by our still increasing marginal propensity to import.  Unless we suddenly start buying American, Fiscal policy will have to be a lot more bigger because we export a portion of it with this scenario.

Again, two major U.S. industries–finance and automobiles–are unwinding.  Every population center with the presence of those industry is going to experience an impact and that will impact the tax revenues for the State and Local Governments (SLGs).  Given we now have states with balanced budget amendments, SLGs cannot stimulate their own economies.  They must grow their budgets because the economy that demands it.  But they can’t because of the straight jacket of those balanced budget amendments.  They must act as agents of recession-creation by law. This makes it even more imperative that big fiscal policy comes from the Feds.  Witness this headline today for California, the state that is typically the canary in the coal mine  for the U.S.

California misses budget deadline, readies “IOUs”

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) – California’s lawmakers failed to agree on a balanced budget by the start of its new fiscal year on Wednesday morning, clearing the way to suspend payments owed to the state’s vendors and local agencies, who instead will get “IOU” notes promising payment.

The notes will mark the first time in 17 years the most populous U.S. state’s government will have to resort to the unusual and dramatic measure.

Democrats who control the legislature could not convince Republicans late on Tuesday night to back their plans to tackle a $24.3 billion budget shortfall or a stopgap effort to ward off the IOUs. The two sides agree on the need for spending cuts but are split over whether to raise taxes.

Democrats have pushed for new revenues while Republican lawmakers and Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, also a Republican, have ruled out tax increases. They instead see deep spending cuts as the solution to balancing the budget, but Democrats say that would slash the state’s safety net for the needy to the bone.

Tempers flared in the state Senate as the midnight start of the new fiscal year neared.

“There is no excuse to hold this whole state hostage,” state Senate President Pro Tem Darrell Steinberg told Republicans during a floor debate.

Senate Republican Leader Dennis Hollingsworth countered that major cuts are urgently needed. Otherwise, “There will be entire programs that will have to be lopped off,” he said.

Economic policy during a time of crisis should not be based on empty rhetoric.  Change is not a quantifiable variable in the abstract.  Massive unemployment is a quantifiable variable and extremely real.  Step away from the hope bong and get real.  There is no reason why stimulus packages in times of trouble and huge democratic majorities in congress need be simple moderation unless you really don’t know what it takes to make real change.  Economic Policy shouldn’t be based on the rhetoric of change, it should be based on the reality of it.

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Update: How some other economists have framed this:

Brad deLong: Forecasting the Obama Economy

Henry Blodget:  How Obama Blew his Credibility on the Economy

Noam Scheiber: How Did the White House By 2.5 Million?

85 Responses

  1. This sounds like an every way you move, you lose reprise

  2. Does it seem that all these so-called economists never had to run a household?
    Debt has interest it costs more. Throwing the money without restrictions and accountablity to the people that helped cause the problem was not the smartest move to make.
    I am not too sure they would not make the same mistakes again. They really to not seem to learn.
    The TARP program is a failure and the losses will cost my great- great grand children.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

    • Well, in many ways the debt held by governments is not similar to the debt held by households. For one thing, stable governments exist in perpetuity, people die and their debts come due. As long as governments can continue to roll it over, the can and do. The question comes when the interest paid on the debt becomes such a huge non value producing portion of the budget that it crowds out necessary spending.

      Follow?

  3. how big IS our interest, as a portion of overall government spending Dak?

    I understand that the federal budget = household budget analogy doesn’t hold up, but do you see any alternative to massively reducing government spending?

    tax increases wont work with unemployment at 10+ % right? and how risky is borrowing more? printing more money? is that the plan?

    • okay, the first relevant measure of the the government debt, is the percentage of debt compared to the size of gdp which you can see here:

      http://uspolitics.about.com/od/thefederalbudget/ig/Political-Economic-Measures/Debt-as-a-Percent-of-GDP–1940.htm

    • a developed nation like us can maintain a fairly good size amount of debt and not be hurt by it …because our gdp is huge. However, if those ratios I gave you get to a critical level, it can be detrimental, so size matters more than the fact there is debt itself, and that’s size of the debt in relation to size of the economy

    • printing more money = inflation = very bad idea

      borrowing more money = higher interest rates = higher portions of budget going to paying off interest and also bad for economic growth

      = damned if you do, damned if you don’t

      • thanks Dak! but arent there situations where inflation is actually a good thing? not hyper-inflation of course, but doesnt reasonable inflation help those who already have assets, ie homeowners?

        what about cutting government spending? recipe for disastrous downward spiral?

        In my opinion, people vastly underestimate how much they depend on government spending. If the feds, or states, made dramatic cuts there would be HUGE layoffs of teachers, police officers, college instructors, admins, health workers, transportation workers.

        I like to challenge people to take a mental poll of how many members of their immediate families or very close friends depend on government spending for employment.

        in my own family it’s something like 75%! including teachers, police officers, state prosecutors, social workers (rely on grants from the state), construction workers (govmt building contracts!), prison guards . . . most people are shocked when they think about it.

        I guess we’ll just have to sit back and watch California for instruction, no? Sorry for all you Cali residents . . .

        • yes, a little inflation can be okay and be job/growth creating, but too much and the economy becomes destabilized. Usually our goal for inflation is somewhere around 1 – 3 % a year.

        • Cutting government spending is not a good thing during a recession because that is when it is most necessary.

          Holding government spending in check when the tax revenues are pouring in is the absolute necessity but the pols rarely exercise constraint.

  4. Here’s a graph that shows the increasing amount of the interest payment that services the debt on this site:

    http://www.federalbudget.com/

    • and from that same site:

      In Fiscal Year 2008 (FY08), the U. S. Government spent $412 Billion of your money on interest payments* to the holders of the National Debt. Compare that to NASA at $15 Billion, Education at $61 Billion, and Department of Transportation at $56 Billion. — As of May 2009, the interest expense so far this fiscal year (FY09) is $214 Billion.

      The interest expense paid on the National Debt is the third largest expense in the federal budget. Only Defense and income redistribution (The Departments of Health and Human Services, HUD, and Agriculture are higher. …Social spending is the largest item in our federal budget.

      • Hate to think about the added $trillions from the Obudgets added to the debt. This cannot continue for long with over a $trillion deficits before we hit a wall.

        • we already have some (like China) balking at us selling any more because it will drive down their yields.

          • US not being the reserver currency, which could happen soon, is a real worry to me. We could lose virtually all protection against a dollar free fall.

  5. government needs to live within its means,just like we do.

    • Living within your means, when referreing to a government, means spending (on programs) only as much as you take in (in taxes). As unemployment increases, the tax base decreases. I heard that the fed. govt. will get 34% less in income taxes this year due to unemployment. I don’t know if that figure is accurate. But I’m sure that income tax revenues will be lowerer.

      So “staying within our means” requires spending cuts Everyone understands this, but the devil is in the details. See reports of what took place in the California legislature last night. No one (in Congress or the administration) has the guts to tackle the big spending items: Defense and Medicare, (not paying the interest on our debt is a non-starter); so that leaves other programs where cuts, however draconian, won’t affect the shortfall very much.

      Back in the day, this was about the time when the “Welfare Queen” would be paraded and offered up to those shouting for reform. But there have been drastic welfare cuts beginning in the 90s, so if you bring out the Welfare Queen now, she’ll get laughed off the stage. Right around now I think everyone in Washington is trying to find a new villain. So far, no success, but they’re burning the midnight oil.

      We know who the villains are. But God forbid we break out the pitchforks and torches for the banksters. BHO promised to stand between them and us. So Axelrod, Pelosi, Reid and BHO, I’m sure, are collaborating on “Welfare Queen, The Sequel” as we speak.

  6. off topic: DK: Just saw the numbers on reduction to the colleges in LA. Saw that SLU was being cut something like $6 million +. God God…Bobby Jindal is an idiot!!

    • yeah, it’s pretty bad, especially since we’re also the fastest growing university in the state. The cuts were brutal and senseless. Jindal is a disaster for Louisiana. They need to close a few small colleges and transfer their budgets to the ones that have students. They need consolidation of low use functions, not across the board cuts for everything. Cowardly and stupid way to do things!

      • I saw the article on The Advocate’s website but it gave no further breakdown. Do you have any idea how or where SLU will make the cuts?

        Whem my cousin went there in the 70s it – SLU was just a small university and Hammond a little burg. Both have grown tremendously.

        I know the LA constitution limits where the cuts can be made but surely there was something better than this.

  7. BO’s economic advisors??? What do they know!

  8. Dakinikat, I really wish you’d do a piece on the latest move by the NYSE to cover for Goldman Sachs. They are talking about it on zerohedge, and it looks like endgame to me.

    http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/06/nyse-halts-transparency-feels-goldman.html

    Read the comments. Some are suggesting doing what I talked about last week – pulling out of Wall Street, converting assets to physical property, and CRASHING the fucker. These are not stupid or reckless people on there, but they are PISSED, as in a financial version of French Revolutionary, bring it down and build from the ashes pissed.

    • Let me take a look at the links. My AER came today and Krugman’s meta analysis from his Nobel presentation is there and I’m devouring that right now . Goldman Sachs = the great satan, methinks…

    • okay, that’s unfuggin believable … where is the SEC on this? Let me do some background work on this.

      • Looks like some people there got hold of the NYSE, and they are scrambling to reassure and say it was a minor rule change, but the info will still be available by “other channels”. Some are buying it, some are not, and some are “wait and see’.

        • One of my major professors is a micro market structure expert, if he’s not in Taiwan right now, he’s likely to know what this could potentially mean. I’m headed out to campus tomorrow so I’ll see what some of the investment profs are saying … the derivatives guy is junior faculty at the moment so he should be around at the very least.

          • At this point, I don’t believe a damn word they say, no matter what their response. The wealth of our entire country is being looted and channeled where the oligarchs want it, right under our noses, and NO ONE in our govt cares – they are enabling it and covering it up as fast as they can obfuscate and muddle.

            I was thinking back, and you know when things got REALLy insane and obvious in the push to bring Hillary down? Right about the time she publicly mentioned that she’d like to investigate whether those market crashes were manipulated. They hated her before that, but they DESTROYED her after that.

          • well, it seemed obvious to me that Barrack Obama was the Goldman Sachs candidate and with the Penny Pritzker connection, I couldn’t get how folks were missing how connected he was to big finance

          • WMCB,

            When did Hillary say that? Do you have a general idea? I don’t recall that , but I’d like to find something to read about it.

    • WTF?!! This is too much!

      • Goldman Sachs needs to be exorcised!

        • How many priests would that take? All those tentacles all through our economy and society. Yuck, green spew everywhere.

    • Both zerohedge and marketticker have had some eye opening posts lately. Marketticker recently suggested that people only buy necessities to starve the beast, and zerohedge has been soliciting feedback from insiders with knowledge of wrongdoing.

      Those sites aren’t being shy when it comes to suggesting the market is being manipulated, and that various governmental players are assisting in the manipulation.

      By the way, didn’t Hillary say something about the price of oil being manipulated, or bid up by hedge funds last summer? I thought she suggested that it be investigated.

      • yes, and oil was played big time last year

      • Marketticker had this to say about what’s going on:

        Go read the entire Zerohedge article; what this means, in short, is that the ability of people (like you and I) to see the fact that a handful of banks, most specifically Goldman Sachs, constitute the majority of NYSE trading volume – and they’re trading for their own book, not for customers, will no longer be disclosed.

        This “back and forth trade” between a handful of institutions is nothing more than the old “pump and dump” game that has been played in the OTC market forever – and almost always screws the individual investor.

        This is no different than you and I selling a house back and forth between us repeatedly, each time at a higher price. We both appear to be geniuses as we’re both making a “profit”, right?

        Well, no. One of us is destined to take a horrifying loss if we do not find a sucker to make the final transaction with.

        The embedded scam is that real gains require real parties at interest and not a closed system of a couple of guys passing an asset back and forth in a transparent attempt to “bait” someone else into becoming the sucker to offload that asset to.

        All of this has been able to be tracked, so far. If the new NYSE rule change is true, then the “little” investor will no longer be able to see that asset being traded back and forth between the big boyz. Thus making it ever so much easier to unload it at the inflated price onto a little guy.

    • Some are suggesting doing what I talked about last week – pulling out of Wall Street, converting assets to physical property, and CRASHING the fucker.

      I transferred all of my retirement to gov’t bonds and CDs a while back. I don’t know how secure either are but it sure has to be better than the stock market.

  9. Bill Clinton was a brilliant man. (LOL, I just like saying that over and over again because it annoys so many people.) Anyway, “it’s the economy, stupid” really got to the heart of the matter. Much of our political attitude is directly connected to our comfort level. Obama can make all the fancy speeches and hope filled promises he wants, but at some point he’s going to have to deliver or he’ll be serving one term. It’s incredible how fast people’s loyalties change when they can’t afford cable TV anymore.

    Already I’m hearing comments from people saying how they hated Bush but were better off financially before Obama took office. Now, it may not be totally fair to hold Obama completely responsible for the state of the economy, but after a couple of years that’s exactly what’s going to happen.

    • Bill Clinton was a brilliant man. (LOL, I just like saying that over and over again because it annoys so many people.)

      Bill Clinton was a brilliant man
      Bill Clinton was a brilliant man
      Bill Clinton was a brilliant man
      Bill Clinton was a brilliant man
      Bill Clinton was a brilliant man
      Bill Clinton was a brilliant man

      You’re right…I never get tired of it either. :)

  10. BB @ 5:24, I can’t remember! I do remember when she talked about oil price manipulation – it was in an interview about a week before the WV primary. From Salon:

    Hillary Clinton told Stephanopoulos that her support for a gas tax holiday is based on her conviction that the price of oil is a result of oil market manipulation.

    Now, why am I proposing this? Well, No. 1, I am absolutely convinced that these record profits of the oil companies are a result of a number of factors beyond supply and demand. I think there has been market manipulation. In fact, Exxon Mobil official testifying under oath before the House of Representatives committee said that if it were just market factors, then the price of oil would be like $50 or $55 a barrel.

    We know that there’s market manipulation going on. So I would launch an investigation if I were president right now by the Department of Justice and the Federal Trade Commission.

    I seem to recall that she made broader statements about the stock market as well, but it’s fuzzy, can’t find those. It may have been in one of her rallies, since I watched so many online. I remember when she said the quote above, though, because she was so grim-faced and resolute when she said it, I thought – “Uh, oh, she has just thrown a gauntlet in their faces, and the PTB are going to come after her…”

    • Thanks for trying! I’ve been reading the comments at Zero Hedge–scary. No wonder these guys didn’t want Hillary. They knew Obama was utterly corrupt and vulnerable to blackmail too.

  11. great post, kat

    after reading some of the comments it feels like i should be cutting up my credit cards and stockpiling canned goods in the basement..
    maybe a few chickens and a goat..

    • Hey I told you we’re headed for collapse months ago. At some point the U.S. is going to have to default on foreign debts if this continues. We’re headed for serfdom. It’s happening. Goldman Sachs runs our government and controls the stock exchange. We are being looted at much faster rate than uner Bush. It’s just incredible that Americans aren’t in the streets rioting.

      What I really can’t believe is that Obama said today that he’s against single payer because it will “upend the system.” We need to upend the system!!

      • one of the reasons that china is slowly dumping it’s stock of US bonds and moving the buy power to real assets in other countries.

      • And I believed you back then, boomer.

        Obama said that about single payer?? that sonofabitch.
        I’d like to “upend” him.

        Americans aren’t in the streets rioting because they have no clue.
        Most of the people I talk to don’t even know what Single Payer is.

        It’s all Michael Jackson, all the time.

  12. At the grocery storE yesterday, a small bottle of salAd dressig was $4.98.
    Unemployment is really in the double digits.
    Bureau of Labor Statistics- via Sweetness and Light

    The US economy lost 598,000 jobs in January.
    The US economy lost 706,000 jobs in February.
    The US economy lost 742,000 jobs in March.
    The US economy lost 545,000 jobs in April.
    The US economy lost 485,000 jobs in May.
    (May’s numbers were adjusted after it was initially reported that 345,000 jobs were lost.)

    And, in June the US lost another 473,000 jobs.
    That’s a total of 3,513,000 jobs lost since barry soetoro took up residency.

    • Please don’t call President Obama by that name. He’s the President, and we have to deal with it. His name is Barack Obama.

      • BB:

        Don’t want to start anything but Obama went by that name once. Why should we not use it? Just asking.

        • It isn’t his name. Why do you want to use it? What does it accomplish? I don’t want to do that for the same reason I think it’s pointless to talk about his birth certificate. It just makes us look silly and accomplishes nothing of any substance.

          We need to focus on what he is doing to the country. From what I read at Zero Hedge and Market Ticker this afternoon, we are being systematically looted, and the banks can’t get away with it unless Obama looks the other way.

          • My only question was, if he went by it once, and his childhood friends still refer to him as that, why would it be so bad to call him that? But I see your point. It only gives the blogstalkers a reason to flame a war.

          • I wasn’t aware that his friends still call him that. How do you know that?

          • I read an article in the nation…I’m trying to find it for you now, where one of his friends from hawaii was interviewed. He called him Barry and said that that was what they always called him. Even today. maybe they have since stopped. Who knows now.
            The point I was making was that this was his name at one point. There was nothing snaky intended.

            I will post the link as soon as I find it for you.

          • And to be honest.. I don’t care what his name is. Your right that we should be worried how our nation’s wealth is being looted right under our noses and no one is doing squat to stop it.

            What he calls himself is trivial compared to what he is allowing to happen under his watch!

          • Red Dragon,

            That’s OK, I believe you. I just get tired of the use of these alternate names and even epithets that I see for Obama. I regret now calling Bush names. I guess I just feel that what is happening to our country is so serious that I hate to get up in directing our anger in ways that don’t really hurt the people in power. I don’t know what else to do either though. It’s frustrating as hell.

          • I know how you feel BB. I myself have a deep feeling of doom and despair. I have never seen anything like this in my 47 years and I am sure no one alive today in my age group ever has. No money. No Jobs, No health insurance etc. The future looks so damn cold and dark that i fear for my children’s future.

            I grew up poor. Hunger is not something new to me. But I so much wanted a better future for my kids that I was and still am willing to lay my life down to ensure they do not go without.

            Is this what we have come to? I feel like a wild on the hunt for a meal. I am angry. I am furious that the people that caused this are allowed to get away with their pillaging and here I am ready to go to jail for a few dollars to pay my bills. There is something really twisted here.

            Where is the anger at the Wall Street BASTARDS that have stolen my country’s future? Instead of people lobbing names and insulting each other with racism charges, why are we not together marching on Washington?

            I have lived through some hard times in my life. I grew up on the South Side of Chicago during Reagan’s assault on the poor and I never felt as helpless as i do now. I grew up chased by hell hounds and shot at every-time I strayed from my neighborhood and yet I never felt the despair i feel today.

            I am tired BB but I am not broken and I will do whatever have to to make my voice heard. I will NEVER rely on a Political party to speak for me anymore. Never again will I trust those that I confided in with my vote only to be told I am no longer relevant.

            Yes I am angry. But I am strong. I may be tired but I still have breath. I am one voice but there are millions like me out here in the wastelands.

            Take heed all you out there that have taken my vote, my voice, my life for granted… You have pushed us too far. A reckoning will come.

  13. Rasmussen has Obama’s approval index at -1 today, and it was -2 yesterday!

  14. OT, sorry…

    Have you seen this?
    Chip Reid and Helen Thomas grillng Gibbs.

  15. May they too despair at what they have created.

  16. Is anybody else terrified? Everyday I live in fear that something is going to happen to my husband’s job and we’re going to be out on the street. CA 1/6 of the economy has just pretty much gone under.

    • If you read my comment above, you can see that i feel just as you do.

      • Yes, you and I sound like soulmates on this issue. You are also close in age to me so you’ve seen the same things I have and yes, it has NEVER been this scary my whole life.

  17. Oh, and to add to my terror Obama’s economic advisors admi they completely screwed up. How long are we going let these people continue to screw up before we demand that heads start rolling?

    • What else would we honestly expect from someone who had no experience in running anything. It is beyond my belief that the majority of the people thought he could handle this given the trouble many of us knew we were in at the time.

      • Well I certainly never expected that Obama had the ability to handle this mess. All I remember hearing was his advisors will make the difference. That’s the same lie teh Bushies told in 2000 also. That eveyrthign would be okay because he had his father’s advisors. It’s like some kind of nightmare repeat of teh last 8 years with incompetence and ineptness. This goes on much longer people are going to start demanding that Obama resign.

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