Jeralyn Merritt at TalkLeft, a criminal defense attorney and Obama supporter who frequently writes about people who were wrongfully convicted and other abuses of our criminal justice system, casually laid this rotten egg yesterday:
During the presidential campaign, Barack Obama said he would close Guantanamo during his first 100 days in office. This morning, on ABC‘s This Week with Stephanopoulos, he backtracked:
“It is more difficult than I think a lot of people realize,” the President-elect explained. “Part of the challenge that you have is that you have a bunch of folks that have been detained, many of whom who may be very dangerous who have not been put on trial or have not gone through some adjudication. And some of the evidence against them may be tainted even though it’s true.
And so how to balance creating a process that adheres to rule of law, habeas corpus, basic principles of Anglo American legal system, by doing it in a way that doesn’t result in releasing people who are intent on blowing us up.”
Shorter version: It will close at some point, just not as soon as he promised.
She then goes on to ho-hum the news that Obama isn’t interested in prosecuting any Cheney-Bush war crimes either. Glenn Greenwald gets kinda wordy but he nails it:
What he’s saying is quite clear. There are detainees who the U.S. may not be able to convict in a court of law. Why not? Because the evidence that we believe establishes their guilt was obtained by torture, and it is therefore likely inadmissible in our courts (torture-obtained evidence is inadmissible in all courts in the civilized world; one might say it’s a defining attribute of being civilized). But Obama wants to detain them anyway — even though we can’t convict them of anything in our courts of law. So before he can close Guantanamo, he wants a new, special court to be created — presumably by an act of Congress — where evidence obtained by torture (confessions and the like) can be used to justify someone’s detention and where, presumably, other safeguards are abolished. That’s what he means when he refers to “creating a process.”
It’s not surprising that Jeralyn takes the news that Obama is breaking yet another promise so lightly. We’re only talking about war crimes, constitutional rights, due process violations, illegal detention and torture. It’s not anything important like Troopergate.
_________________________________________________
UPDATE: Jeralyn has a new post with sensible recommendations for closing Gitmo, leaving her 177 posts short of her Troopergate coverage.
(graphic courtesy of New Hampster)
Filed under: Barack Obama, Blogosphere Tagged: | Gitmo, Hopium, Jeralyn Merritt, TalkLeft, Troopergate, War Crimes
They’ll have to all learn that “ideology” is a passe word in the era of “cool” – we go with “pragmatism now (that looks suspiciously a lot like the GOP ideology)
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/our-ideology-is-your-pragmatism/
I give you credit for still slipping over there once in awhile to see what’s up. I gave up months ago. And just for the record, Taylor Marsh is now blogging at HuffPo.
It never ceases to amaze me how quickly these people can turn just to bask in the limelight of Obama. And Jeralyn lost her creds long ago when she turned on a dime to serve her master.
I think that Jeralyn will be like a Bush deadender. She’ll never be able to admit that she was wrong. She would have to acknowledge having been conned at such a fundamental level, that the degree of embarassment would be unbearable.
“basic principles of Anglo American legal system”
What American legal system(s) is he rejecting in favor of the Anglo one?
“And some of the evidence against them may be tainted even though it’s true.” Obama
He’s a lawyer, right? Those are the breaks as far as I can tell. How many more years of detainment do we need to find untainted true evidence? An eternity maybe. Sort of like caucus fraud I guess.
When you learn the details about some of these “people who are intent on blowing us up” you realize how full of shit he is.
We recently released from Gitmo some guys from Albania who were arrested in Bosnia because they allegedly planned to travel to Afganistan to fight against our coalition.
We kept them locked up for 5 years until a judge threw out the charges against them.
Thanks for keeping us informed. Most of us can’t even stand to visit Talk Left anymore.
It seems Jeralynn’s wide-eyed “I wanna be in the cool crowd” when Arianna provided free facials and massages at the convention , and her Palinpalooza (BTD’s own term) , have cost her everything, without her even knowing it.
Including her integrity.
You’re right” she’ll become an Obama-justifier, much like the Bush lovers, but just the other side of the same disappointing coin.
Perhaps she can find some more Palin gossip to fill her time and her blog.
It’s all she has now.
Okay, even I was surprised by this…just a little. I actually thought that Barky would close Guantanamo as a big gesture to all of his supporters which costs him virtually nothing in political capital: after all, everyone wants it closed except for Bush’s craziest pals. I thought he’d close it and say: “See, I do stuff!” Oh, well, fool me once, shame on you Barky. Fool me twice…well, you ain’t never gonna fool me again!
Mary:
Jeralyn is still pretty good when she sticks to criminal justice stuff and stays out of politcs.
Her posts last night on the Golden Globes were okay too.
We allowed the bar to be set so low to accommodate Bush that it made it easier for Obama to just waltz over it.
Experience and qualifications count for nothing. Let’s just use the “wow” factor going forward to choose a president. Perhaps Kelly Ripa may be available in a few years to capture the Latino vote. That’s all it takes these days.
DYB:
He can’t. If he closes Gitmo then what does he do with the prisoners? If they are brought here then we have to give them trials with full constitutional rights and the evidence against them has to be turned over to their dfefense attorneys.
If that happens, the cases will collapse and the evidence of torture will be exposed (which was why they kept them at Gitmo in the first place.) If they are released they’ll talk.
Obama cut a deal to sweep it under the rug in exchange for the support of the neocons.
I have been saying the same all along. Nasty Nancy had a deal going way back in 2006 by promising to keep impeachment off the table in exchange for something. I believe that “something” was also tied into Gitmo. When this stuff finally meets the light of day it will be overwhelming.
myiq2xu> Agreed. I’m just saying that I figured Barky wouldn’t worry about the ramifications. I thought he would close Gitmo as a way to stick it to Bush/Cheney, to make the whole wide world love him even more because this has been the international community’s wet-dream for years, and as a way to do something big for his lefties supporters so they stop their bitching. And it would cost him very little to no political capital because, as I said, the only people who want to keep Gitmo open are Bush’s craziest friends and supporters. He can blame everything that went wrong in Gitmo on Bush/Cheney. If he doesn’t close it right away, Gitmo becomes his problem. (And, as we’ve already seen, Barky’s craziest supporters are making excuses already. So we’re coming full circle.)
That’s fine, myiq.
Golden Globes, TV shows, red carpet fashion, Palin gossip, etc.
Those are when Jeralynn “shines,” by her own definition.
That makes her a “dish it to me” poster, NOT a policy wonk like Krugman or Greenwald.
The very day she bragged about the free facials, admitted she hadn’t actually GONE to the convention, but spent her time blogging at the local bar with her “buddies,” yada yada yada, I never went back.
And her absolute condemnation of cops exceeding their authority with tasers, but defending Palin’s ex-husband for tasing his own ten-year-old son…… Puhleeeese.
I’d rather read Krugman or Greenwald, thank you.
Each to his own.
Or Dakinikat here, as a SUBSTANTIAL poster who understands her topic, and gives to the readers policy understanding (much like Greenwald and Krugman) and not grocery store gossip.
Jeralynn is much less substantial than you claim she is.
Due respect.
DYB:
That’s why he voted yes on the FISA revision too.
The retroactive immunity provision was part of the “sweep it under the rug” thing.
Mary, “Palin’s ex-husband”
That would be Sarah Palin’s sister’s ex, right?
understatement of the year:” Glenn Greenwald gets a little wordy.”
i like glenn tho.
Hillaryis44 has an article about Obama and Guantanamo
http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=847
Jeralyn always seemed pretty sane (to the point of being boring) until Sarah was named as McCain’s VP.
Overnight she became absolutely deranged.
It was like having your mild-manned accountant suddenly start talking about being kidnapped by aliens and traveling to the planet Zorb in a UFO.
May be the Repubs have something on the PE (deleted) therefore he will do their bidding on this and a whole lot more. It’s plausible, is it not?
He either sweeps it under the rug or shoves it under the bus. He should work for The Container Store rather than the nation. He is an excellent space-saver. Democracy needs room to breathe.
So now he has openly gay Episcopalian Bishop Robinson saying a brief prayer at the Inauguration to appease his gay and supporters (though he and his handlers refuse to admit he made a mistake with Warren, natch).
Can anyone spell S-O-P?
We were told that Bush was a uniter and we needed to get behind him, too.
That turned out well.
Bella:
If you know a topic is taboo why do you bring it up?
Exactly, Bella. He’s not interested in “sticking it” to Bush/Cheney. Half of what he’s proposed so far is merely a reiteration of their own policies. I just love a right-wing liberal, don’t you?
“May be the Repubs have something on the PE” Yes, they know that he wants their votes, our votes – everybody’s votes. He wants to be everybody’s president. Whatever anyone has on Obama, so far it isn’t sticking.
Only Obama’s ego is for real.
Magdalena> Melissa Etheridge must be so proud of her Lord. I suspect the gay community at large will be very happy with this. They’ll say: “See we raised our voices and The Lightbringer listened to us!” All is well in the World of O once again.
The one thing he wants is to be reelected, and that’s what he’s working on.
Well, Cheney said that some Dems knew about the torture and went along with it. Has anyone come forward and said, “No, we didn’t?” Nancy? Harry? Anyone? Bueller?
I felt like the warrantless wiretapping was purely monetary. The Dems were being quite firm about it until Obama decided he needed the biggest, tackiest coronation evah at the Convention. Then, they realized they didn’t have enough money to pay for his enormous ego. Remember those stories? They were short tens of millions.
Then, FISA was passed. Very shortly afterward, AT&T and other telecoms sponsored the convention and all the money troubles went bye-bye.
Q.E.D.
He doesn’t want the left’s votes. He figures he’s got them. Look at Jeralyn and his other apologists. He only wants the right. It’s so heart-warming.
To be everything is to be nothing.
Oh poop, I’m in moderation and an obsessed Wanktard is trying to make me speak to him!
Yup, DYB:
Dear Melissa Etheridge:
It’s called a pacifier. Now shut up and be good. Daddy is working with the Repub– er, grown-ups.
O
Madamab:
Be glad he wasn’t trying to gnaw on your leg – we haven’t fed them in days.
Is there any doubt that had he not been “caught”, Madoff would also be attending the Obama celebration on January 20th? He must have written a couple of checks before the cops swooped in.
At one point will the Obots notice that the right is getting the Big Stuff and all the left is getting is lollipops and rest stops and “Be patient now, sweetie, we’ll get to Gitmo soon, I promise”?
Answer: never.
The left is going to remain in the backseat asking plaintively, “Are we there yet? I thought we were there.”
Magdalena, Said: To be everything is to be nothing.
*****
Exactly. He stands for nothing; thus the blank slate. This blank slate is an automatic etch-a sketch. It self-erases as soon as someone writes on it. Then the erasure gets stuck in the original writer’s mind as truth – Hopium.
Erasing from “hoped up” minds is very difficult.
I kinda miss Bigtent. I stopped reading Jeralyn though when she went all Palin deranged.
I’m not surprised about Guantanomo, alot of the countries these folks came from don’t want them. With that in mind the alternative would be to release them here. If they weren’t p!ssed off at us before incarceration then I’m pretty sure that being wrongfully incarcerated, waterboarded and whatever the hades else we did probably got them to p!ssed off. I know I’d certainly be if I was unlawfully detained and then set free.
Myiq – awwww, poor starving tr0lls. And they’re so easily fed, too – all they need is a bunch of bumpersticker slogans from an alleged “Democrat” and they’re sated for 8 years!
Magda – I think a lot of them will. But some will remain under the spell until something bad actually happens to them DIRECTLY.
Even then, they will probably blame it on Bush.
Magda
Isn’t it astounding that the same folks thaty railed about a Democratic Congress “keeping its powder dry” don’t recognize themselves in the behavior of their leaders. Up next, the group will send Obama, Pelosi and Reid a batch of sternly worded letters.
madamab: Blame it on Bush? When they can still blame it on Clinton? Not so fast!
Pat J> You took the words right out of my keyboard! They’ll blame it on Hillary.
Madamab:
It’s an experiment to see how long it will take before they become cannibals.
CWaltz, yes, but first they will send begging letters. Those will be fun to read.
Then they will send slightly disillusioned letters with a note of sycophancy still. More fun.
Then they will ask questions. Mild ones.
Then they will be tentatively critical.
Then they will be stern.
Then four years will be up, and they’ll vote for him again.
And the cycle will begin anew,
Ah, the circle of life!
Magdalena:
He’s not even sworn in yet and the Obamanationals are already saying that some things will have to wait until his second term.
Like getting their ponies, for example.
Magda – You got it!
And they will continue to wonder why the Democratic Party isn’t doing their bidding, even as they keep on allowing themselves to be taken for granted. After all, it’s SO MUCH BETTER for a Democrat to be President, right? So they should just stop complaining and Love Him!!
Meanwhile, they will never question why the Democrats and Republicans seem to be increasingly indistinguishable, because if they do, they will have to own that it’s THEIR FAULT for throwing their principles away in the name of “unity.” After all, they had big microphones, and big readership. They could have mobilized the grassroots in favor of Hillary. The fix might even have been overturned had they done so.
They own Obama. And deep inside, I think some of them are starting to be a little sick about it.
I give the ones that aren’t totally hopeless about 6 months before they blossom into full-on rebellion and start appearing at our site.
PUMA HAKA
CWaltz, I think you’ve nailed it. The real problem is what to do with all these individuals that no one wants. Australia just shook its head “no” for the second time, saying it won’t take anyone who resided at Gitmo. Poor Obama. He was so busy getting elected President that he never bothered to do his homework or legwork on anything having to do with the major issues facing the next President.
Ah, well myiq. I guess they just keeping passing that bong around. Who wants clarity of thought, anyway?
O: destroying your brain, one synapse at a time.
grayslady: Like buying all that “keen” shelving from IKEA and then wondering where the hell to put it!
bush and & his cronies have seen to it that everything will have to wait .. it would be the same if Hillary was our Pres.
Krugman has answered Obama, if you didn’t know.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/12/opinion/12krugman.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
Oui, madam. I am so glad I voted Green this year. Not for the Uniparty.
HAKA lives.
Dumbass Black Guy:
The right answer is:
Warren is still giving the invocation at the inauguration. You know, the one that tens of millions of people will be watching? You know, the one where Obama will, you know, actually be, you know, inaugurated?
Jeezus Christ, you’re a moron.
VBG – Or maybe you don’t know the first thing about anything you’re saying. Could that be it?
Personally, I am just waiting for Dems to jump on the Democratic bandwagon.
Obama has taught me to modest in my Hope.
Madamab:
If you feed ‘em it will mess up our experiment.
Ah, thanks, MYIQ.
Idiot tr0ll needs to get a life.
Myiq,
I knew it was taboo to elaborate on it, I did NOT know it was forbidden to mention it. My bad
Sorry MYIQ – that particular one is so persistent that I keep wanting to stomp on him.
a majority of people in our country and government , after 911 did engage in and shut their eyes to many abuses of our constitution and laws of the country – we all know them … I call it the “911 frame of mind” ..
as far as wishes go – I don’t care how many people despise Al Gore – I still say He would have done a much better & wiser job of it .
I am also waiting to see if Hillary is actually appointed. I suspect there may be some backroom Chicago plans to derail her. Then Obama can through up his hands and say, “I tried!”
If so, he may have gotten this idea from Bush, during his Supreme Court I-love-the-little-ladies “appointment.”
I won’t be satisfied until that loony pastor from the Westboro Church and his anti gay demonstrators are offered a place at the podium. This to me would be a sign of “unity”. Unless and until ALL factions of religion are represented then I am not buying.
I think I need to take a break. I am beginning to see shapes that aren’t there.
I’m in moderation, can’t figure out why.
Someone take the bong away from Pat. We need her.
Madamab .. You said “They own Obama. And deep inside, I think some of them are starting to be a little sick about it.”
I think Obama owns them .. lol …
Bella:
I only deleted the taboo reference because the rest of your comment was fine.
They are fused with Obama. Kinda like Jeff Goldblum in “The Fly.”
Icky.
If the “detainees” are brought here almost 100% of them are going free. The alternative is to just close Gitmo & let them all go free now (so we don’t have to waste the time & money to have real trials in the US).
Now, it seems to me (and anyone with hasn’t drunk the kool aid) that Obama is saying we can’t let them go free under either scenario because they are guilty we just can’t prove it. This means 2 things: (1) keep them in Gitmo until we can prove their guilt (not likely to happen given that we haven’t been able to do it yet: OR (2) They die.
The detainees dying really is the only way out of this that is satisfactory to the powers that be — do you think the kool aid kidz will defend/justify him if he just builds a big old oven to gas them with? How about a mysterious disease? I’m *sure* Obama can *sell it* Sadly, I believe they will buy it, and Jeralyn will be first in line.
BTW — How come no one is pissed off at the fact that Obama is actually flat out saying that closing Gitmo is more difficult “than anticipated?” Shouldn’t that have been his f*cking job to “anticipate” these things BEFORE making promises on the campaign trail? I know it is a small quibble but they would be all over Hillary if she said such bs.
Magda:
We have a regular troll named “Brundlefly”
Angie, no, anticipation was Hillary’s job.
We decided we didn’t want that.
Myiq: gross
Angie:
They have their hate on for the Big Dawg cuz he “broke” promises but unlike Obama he actually tried to keep them.
Personally I am thrilled at having a PE who is not very good at anticipating things. It bodes so well. The next four years will be more exciting. Wheeeee!
Angie: I’m sure we are just seeing his superior ‘judgement’ at work.
Gitmo is beyond cruel, even without our non-torture torure techniques. Taking anyone’s life away for undetermined time… They should probably give them lots of money and be done.
More things Obama won’t anticipate:
Sending more troops to Afghanistan will not result in his (Ms.) poster be displayed everywhere by the Taliban.
Denying Americans even an attempt at universal health care will not turn us all into non-smoking vegetarians who drive safely, use contraceptives faithfully, and are capable of praying our way (with Warren’s help) out of cancers.
For some mysterious reason, African Americans in the inner city will still struggle with poverty and neglect, in spite of all the posters of him.
Test scores will not improve and infants will not be born smarter. Question: was it the bong? Answer: unknown.
It’s too bad about Jerelyn. Like many defense attorneys, she was once a champion of the underdog, but she drank way too much koolaid and suffered permanent brain damage. What a terrible shame.
No question in my mind whatsoever Gore would have done much better. Can’t go back though.
I do want to say that I don’t think alot of the people who are enabling Obama necessarily want unity, I do think that what these people wanted was to win- at all costs. It’s actually kinda sad. You got people like Markos who ran around saying the reason government didn’t work was conservative ideology work and then you’d have Obama say “All Hail Reagan”(so much for getting rid of that conservative ideology after all eh kos?). Then you’d have people like BTD who would say that he could tell Obama was posturing but he’d vote for him because he was the guy who could get past the media(its a pretty lazy mentality to let the media do the heavy lifting. ) These folks are going to be disappointed but they will rationalize the same way they rationalized to give him their vote. Ironically enough these are the same folks who mocked the Bush 30% when we can call them the Obama 30%.
I see psychopathic black guy is screaming for attention from the spam filter about us crapping on people’s symbolic presidency.
i’m not understanding how some one that far removed from the american black experience, grandson of slavers and of slave owners, who basically abused a system set up to help less fortunate people is a symbol of anything other than one scam after another, but hey, i’m such a hater and not a player, so anyway.
personally, i’ve got blackarm band ready with the death of democracy on it … i’m not celebrating the day the DNC killed one person one vote
It only takes a tiny bit of Koolaid, unfortunately. It’s like a dog around anti-freeze. Dangerous stuff.
meet the new dilletante, same as the old dilletante, as far as I’m concerned
Um, we already have such a system. We decided this a long time ago. It’s called innocent until proven guilty, coupled with throwing out cases that have been tainted by torture. The right thing to do here is clear. You’d think that of all people, a defense attorney would be able to fight her way to seeing a few of the long-standing principles of our justice system she uses (or should be using) every day. It’s a challenge, I know, but I bet a few minutes on Wikipedia would clear it right up for her, and for Obama.
I laugh every time I think that Jeralyn’s cowardly, ill-reasoned intellectually vapid sucking up to the Obama crowd has gotten her nothing. I hope the spa visit with Ariana at the convention lasts a long time for her, it’s all she got, not even 30 pieces of silver!
myiq and pat,
I agree about the deal. The deal could be if he rats them
out, they rat him out back – with caucus fraud, Rezco
connections, MO’s 300K job, how he “won” all his
elections, etc. I’ve been wondering why you never hear
about caucus fraud or Rezco. It’s all over the Internet, but
not even Fox touches it. Better to let him be POTUS and
own him.
So promising for our country.
Bill Kristol’s column today:
Continuity We Can Believe In
“It seems that we can expect more continuity than change from President-elect Barack Obama’s foreign policy.”
Magdalena – I don’t trust Barack to keep Hillary as SOS, so maybe it would be better if she’s not confirmed – she’d still have her senate seat.
Briana: the entire ny times op ed today is filled with pieces about Obama’s packages being inadequate. both foreign and the economy thang … the Krugman one is just one of about 4 there.
Those bloggers who cheered Obama saw this election through the prism of a “gameboy” toy. The winning side was all that mattered. Critical thinking and questioning of positions were not necessary to further the end.
They feel good because they “won” without consideration as to what that means. Disrupting the primaries, dissing those who refused to get onboard, disparaging dialogue, brought this “game” to the conclusion. Winning at all costs is what mattered. How you got there depends on who played.
Jmac: I agree. I don’t want Hill tied to this prince who is going to turn into a frog. I know she wants to do her best for us. But this may not be it.
The sad thing is that the Gitmo thing shows me that Obama has the same level of foresight as Bush. I’m not some blooming genius. I’m just someone who read the newspapers and knew that the detainees that had been found innocent before were being turned away by their host countries. It’s the same feeling of D’oh I had when they said they were kicking inspectors out of the country when they supposedly knew where the weapons were(uh Bueller how about telling the inspectors and building your case while verifying the intel geez).
that and i understand he’s not interested in looking into any past crimes from either domestic spying or torture and doesn’t see gitmo closing down any times soon …
ah, when the cold hard facts hit you that you managed to not learn while you’re campaigning and promising stuff …
this guy shot blanks and NOW the media is starting in? a little too late if you ask me, they should have focused on his miserable debate performances early on and paid less attention to his teleprompter motivational speak
oh, and he’s reading about the first 100 days of FDR’s days in office and oddly enough looking for material on how to talk to the people rather than how to frickin’ do things to stop a depression. rather telling yes?
Speaktruth:
I think the deal was simpler than that. Obama got lots of money, far more than any Democrat ever has in the past.
And didn’t it seem like the GOP didn’t really want McCain to win?
Magdalena, i think it’s becoming more obvious that we’re going to have a facilitator president. that the foreign minister (Hillary) and the domestic minister (BIden) are going to be doing the hard work while Obama gives us pretty speeches and facilitates his team through the process
Hmmmmm
Who else’s foreign and domestic policies were inadequate?
dakini, can’t we just give BO a few books to keep him occupied and let Hillary run the country? Is it too much to ask? Give him the fireside chats. Let Hillary chop the wood, build the fires we all need, and keep all of us, including him, warm. I wouldn’t mind.
myiq2xu: I don’t think the GOP wanted McCain to win, I think the want the next four years of hell to be put on the DNC’s shoulder. they didn’t think McCain was a true believer anyway. the voting patterns seemed to show very lukewarm republican turn out for Mac. I think he was more undermined than beaten.
he’s reading about the first 100 days of FDR’s days in office and oddly enough looking for material on how to talk to the people rather than how to frickin’ do things
This and the open admiration of Reagan is what scares me about him. He has no clue how to DO anything.
I think there was a fissure in the GOP. I’m betting alot were rooting for Obama because the country is a mess and they forsee the Democrats getting the blame for it.
Magdalena, I that’s kinda what I think is going to happen, except Hillary’s going to run the foreign side and Biden’s going to push things through Congress.
BO is going to give us all fire side chats and hold meetings
Of course the GOP didn’t want McCain to win — he’s not conservative enough for the far right. Obama, though, they have no problem with — doesn’t that make the idiot blogger boyz pause for one d@mn second? Of course not –they lack the deductive reasoning to draw the obvious conclusion. Remember the Brooks Brother Riot in 2000? Someone please tell me how those young punks then are at all different from they young punks running wankette now.
New post up. And I really ought to get to work . . . ya’ll hang tough.
Magda
Krugman hit Barack again today on his stimulus plan. He thinks he should be looking long-term instead of for quick fixes.
I think O”s just looking at it politically – he wants Republicans on board so he’s not hurt so badly in the mid-terms. Bill Clinton passed his economic plan without any Republicans and it hurt him in the mid-terms and Barack mentioned it in the primaries.
It’s about O’s job – not getting jobs for Americans.
CW: exactly my thoughts … this is going to be a rough four years, at minimum it’s going to be a repeat of the Carter years– bad on domestic and foreign fronts
plural
According to his cheerleaders he didn’t need to know how to do anything. He’s transformational because he is black and Congress just changes stuff anyway(That was AdamB over at Dkos). Oh and he’ll surround himself with lots of knowledgable folk(which also sounds vaguely familiar)..
well, the democratic team is up to bat, but once again we have got the cheerleader as captain of the team … but hey, they got a few good players in the draft, so what the heck?
He needs to be thinking long term and short term. He needs to get over the price tag and go big. They should start off by funding the expansion of SCHIP and possibly consider doing the same to Medicaid and Medicare. He needs to start thinking about doing something about a health care system that stops us from being competitive and is forcing companies to consider relocating. He certainly needs to do more than revamp health records.
the one thing that really jaded me this entire political season is that both of these parties are basically the same with the same rulebooks. the only thing that is different is who they pay lipservice too… and now with Rick Warren and his ilk being welcomed by the Democratic party, i’m beginning to think even that’s going by the wayside. They only care about getting into office and enriching themselves with the spoils.
Dakinkat:
You do realize the G-Dub was a cheerleader at Yale?
Jmac: Cohen hit Obama on his middle east team too with the same type of criticism, not grand enough, not a big enough change, no vision … and then Kristol too … his word was ‘continuity’ with the Bush foreign policy
myiq2xu: yup
myiq2xu: teleprompter jesus will get credit for same job, even though he’s never done it … it will fall some where under the community organizer meme, then will all be faulted for being against the historic nature of his presidency if we ask where it was he actually did this?
irony is never lost on me
but then I’m sure that some one out there in the blogosphere will argue that MLK would’ve found a way to compromise with the dixiecrats and the kkk
sheesh
CWaltz,
Adam B is one of my number one suspects for being a paid Axelrod blogger–along with Geekesque. As for Markos, I think he is a CIA operative (excuse my tinfoil hat). How many people complete their CIA training and then change their minds and become “progressive” bloggers?
http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2008/05/kos-and-cia.html
http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2008/05/kos-and-cia.html
Agree the Repugs plan was for McCain to lose. But the
scariest thing is I think there’s a part two to this plan. I told
a friend this theory a few months ago. She just laughed, it
seemed so farfetched at the time.
Part two: After Obama f*cks up so much, then you can
run the real candidate: Jeb Bush.
Last two weeks media’s been talking a lot about Jebbie.
Tweetie says he likes him a lot.
One of those “I don’t even believe they’d do this ideas” that
seems to be coming true.
Goddess save us.
I don’t find Cohen’s own suggestions especially overwhelming. More academics and talking heads.
I don’t know if you read the Greenwald article over on Salon, but really liked this quote:
“I still believe that, but Obama’s interview today with George Stephanopoulos provides the most compelling — and most alarming — evidence yet that all of the “centrist” and “post-partisan” chatter from Obama’s supporters will mean what it typically means: devotion, first and foremost, to perpetuating rather than challenging how the Washington establishment functions.”
EXACTLY
More from Greenwald:
“Obama today rather clearly stated that he will not close Guantanamo in the first 100 days of his presidency. He recited the standard Jack Goldsmith/Brookings Institution condescending excuse that closing Guantanamo is “more difficult than people realize.”
Meh
My husband was a communicater for special forces. I found out after the fact He was offered a position with the CIA(already had a top secret clearance) the pay wasn’t that great considering we’d be living in DC(not to mention he would have had to be gone a good portion of the time. He passed on it as a result.
I genuinely liked AdamB, Geek and Kos(even if I disagreed with them on more than 1 occasion). I did not like how they became a bunch of cyberbullies though and tried to shut down discourse and allowed outright unsubstantiated smears to remain on the site when it benefitted their candidate of choice.
“Worst of all, Obama (in response to Stephanopoulos’ asking him about the number one highest-voted question on Change.gov, first submitted by Bob Fertik) all but said that he does not want to pursue prosecutions for high-level lawbreakers in the Bush administration, twice repeating the standard Beltway mantra that “we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards” and “my instinct is for us to focus on how do we make sure that moving forward we are doing the right thing.”
I’m in moderation. I wonder what I said that spammy didn’t like this time.
dakinikat: Magdalena, I that’s kinda what I think is going to happen, except Hillary’s going to run the foreign side and Biden’s going to push things through Congress.
BO is going to give us all fire side chats and hold meetings
You might be right. That certainly would be a best case scenario. But BO has a huge ego and I’m guessing he’s going to want to run things. And, of course, blame others when things go wrong.
Also, I think he’s going to be hounded by scandals which the Republicans will take full advantage of so that they can put Jeb into play in 2012.
and the stuff on the Newsweek cover: What would Dick Do?” Is Hillarious. I’m going to have to get out my side-by-side of cheney and obama in cowboy hats with that same look on their face.
It should have read closing Obama stated, “closing Guantanomo is more difficult then I, a complete and utter naive and clueless individual without a smattering of knowledge on the subject, realized.” Then it would have been accurate.
plural: i didn’t find it all that compelling either, but for the media to start publishing criticism and questions is just a small sign of a short half life for hopium, hopefully
speaktruth, I’ve contended for the last year that’s been the plan all along: Jeb 2012. That’s why Palin is still been smeared in the MSM.
Obama’s new mantra: Forget what I said in the past. We are moving forward. Now STFU!!!!
Pat J — Oh yes, the past for Obama most definitely includes what he said so long ago in the past during the election.
gxm: there are a lot of ways of letting your boss think he’s in charge while you happily do what you want behind his back, right?
besides, i think that obama is more interested in how he appears and if he thinks what they’re doing will make him look good and he can go on a marketing tour of the country, he will … and take credit for the good things, then use his usual “that’s not the * I thought I knew” and distance himself –like from judas on down. however, he’s already butting heads with Reid and Pelosi, so anything is possible at this point. Since he’s never actually had to be a boss of anything, who knows what he’d do … maybe ask Michelle, at least she’s had some experience
I don’t care if Jeb is another Disraeli, he will have a huge obstacle to overcome. As a matter of fact, his running in 2012 will be a sure win for Obama no matter how bad he may be. There may be short term memories out there but Jeb will be defeated simply because of that alone. And if he proceeds to include Palin the loss will be assured.
Only if Obama sees opposition from the Dems in 2012 will he be likely to lose outright. Another Bush in the WH this soon after W is a guaranteed loss.
i know there’s a new thread up, but i’d be so OT for that one, I’m staying over here for the moment, btw
BO is going to give us all fire side chats and hold meetings
The fire he’ll be sitting by will be our economy burning to the ground.
Jeralyn makes me sick. I never go over there unless it is about O.J. Simpson because I love reading her hypocrisy as she defends the innocent O.J. from the horrible, evil Goldman family who can’t get over the death of their son.
Big Ten Democrat is the occasional a-hole but the most tolerable of all the TL posters. He should start his own blog because Jeralyn has shown that NOTHING will make her criticize the Messiah. If Gitmo can’t get her as angry as she was over Troopergate, nothing will. It’ll be fun to see the bullsh*t she’ll come up with to defend Obama in 2012.
Interesting quote from Obama caught by Bill Kristol, along with some further observations:
Kristol is quite happy of course to see that Obama looks to be more of Bush and Cheney.
Obama won’t care what any of the cabinet members do, as long as he gets the credit and they get the blame.
i think most of the conservatives really aren’t picking on Obama at all at this point, I find that VERY telling.
CWaltz,
The CIA has a long history of allowing agents (e.g. E. Howard Hunt) to “resign” and then work as secret operatives. George W. Bush is a prime example of this too. I’ll stick with my tinfoil theory about Markos. It would be in character for him, IMHO.
have you read some of the comments in Greenwald’s thread?
“coming. There never was a bait and switch.
This is very similar to supporters of Bush and Co. Not to say there was a bait and switch here, either. As Glenn (and others) have pointed out, Rabid Obama supporters seem to justify each and every one of their idol’s moves to save face in one way or another, much like movie critics so intent on supporting one actor/director or another no matter how horrid the production is.
here’s another:
“the disappointments seem to pile on weekly.
The only thing that keeps me going that having Barack around means the pace of the destruction of our country’s values will slow down
the now, sometimes, i wonder.
you should read them, it appears hopium is wearing off already off some out there
another:
“My general feeling is that this postpartisan garbage is the way the Democrat party reassures the corporate oligarchy that things will be business-as-usual.
PE Obama would not even have won in the primaries if not for the support of progressives, and it will deeply sadden me if he spends four years ignoring his base in favor of cozying up to the ruling class.”
i think most of the conservatives really aren’t picking on Obama at all at this point, I find that VERY telling.
If anything they are praising him.
i think once they figured out that obama wasn’t an idealogue, he was an opportunist, the recognized they were sympatico
He is an opportunist, and so are they.
As long as he is popular, they will attempt to ride his wave.
They are very good at political strategy, not so good (to put it mildly) at policy.
The neocrooks have a win-win situation.
Obama lets them off the hook, then he gets blamed for the mess they created.
a bunch of the big guys are releasing their quarterlys today … especially the commodities-related companies, this should be interesting
thank you, myiq, for connecting these important dots.
“people who are intent on blowing us up” = right wing meme, Call MANDOS!!! QUICK!!!!!
myiq2xu, on January 12th, 2009 at 1:19 pm Said:
i think most of the conservatives really aren’t picking on Obama at all at this point, I find that VERY telling.
If anything they are praising him.
I think Obama wants it that way. He doesn’t have the courage to be attacked for being a liberal. He wants to make everyone happy except for his own base. He thinks he’s got us in the bag for 2012 and there is nowhere else for us to go. As long as he gets re-elected, he could care less about the liberal agenda. He’s an opportunist and we’ve been saying this since January but the Obots didn’t listen.
Call MANDOS!!!
I think he’s busy solving the I/P crisis right now.
DV:
Right now the evidence indicates he can bite the heads off puppies and the majority of the Democratic party will clap and cheer.
A labradoodle or a portuguese water dog? For real. That’s CNN’s poll of the day. Which one should the Obamas chose? Who the f*&% cares about this sort of sh!t???
gxm17 – Ha, O needs the polling because yesterday he said choosing a dog is harder than choosing a Commerce Secretary.
So far, he hasn’t chosen either.
Dakinikat,
No rush, but sometime can you read my new post? I’m anxious to know what you think.
bb: I read it , i liked it a lot, I promise I’ll go comment up there, it’s just i read greenwald, krugman, and all the op ed pieces on the NY Times today, Myiq2xu had this thread up, and so when I eat lunch and chill out, I’ll go over there
Thanks, Dakinikat. I don’t want to pull you away from this excellent post. I’m still reading the comments here too.
I don’t quite know what to make of Greenwald. I didn’t read him much during the past year. He doesn’t seem to have completely absorbed the Koolaid, but has he discussed any of HIllary’s proposals, e.g., HOLC? It seems he thought Obama was a liberal.
OMG! I can’t believe CNN is still flogging the puppy story. God forbid we should be attacked again. Obama will have to take a long time to make up his mind what to do. Meanwhile we could be in the middle of a nuclear holocaust.
I have to go out for a bit. I’ll check back later to see what Dakinikat things about all this.
BB, I hope you’re still here. I LOVE this post. I’m building quite a reading list this year. I like the analysis of economic cycles.
I don’t understand economics at all but, I’m fascinated by the changes we’ve been seeing the last year or so.
Cnns other crisis is Oprahs fat …..Larry king did an entire show on her fat .. because in these difficult economic times, with war in the middle east , and a clueless crooked politican about to take office that is why Oprah is disgusted with herself , because she is overweight and cannot fit into her inauguaral gown ..
I could give her a few other reasons .
I was almost astonished when in the checkout line I saw the latest cover of O, which managed to feature Oprah not once, but actually twice as fat Oprah commented upon an image of thin Oprah.
And she actually got in the trifecta of self-absorption because the title was something like “how could I let this happen again?”
Jeezus Christ on a cracker. It’s so absurd, and so impossibly over the top, and yet no one seems to see.
I hope Mr Obama will stop the war between Israel and Gaza !
Why stop there – take a big hit from the bong and hope for world peace.
Oprah is a example of why too much money can be a bad thing. She has become so self-absorbed and isolated from the real problems Americans are facing right now. No one cares about Oprah’s fat. She of all people shouldn’t have an excuse. She has the money to buy all the exercise equipment, doctors, private chefs, nutritionists, and personal trainers she needs to lose weight. Unlike millions of Americans who are forced to eat the 99 cent meal at McDonald’s or buy microwave dinners to save money, Oprah can stuff her face with sushi and caviar all day. Maybe if she stopped thinking about me, me, me all the time, she could see the bigger picture and do shows that most of us could relate to.
i quit watching oprah,when she indorsed bo.over hillary.
untill us girls stand united nothing will change.
I love to see my Hope Bong put to good use. Seriously, thanks for making my day by using my bong.
New Hampster:
That was your idea? I’m sorry, I didn’t realize you originated it or I would have given you credit.
It’s gone viral – I seen it so many places I had no idea where it came from.
I’ll make the edit.
I don’t care. I just love when I see it.
I am considering trashing five years of sobriety for a hit of the hope bong to take the pain away…….. Will anyone talk me off the ledge?
New Hampster love your avatar
Olive, NH said that anyone can go to his site Partizane and download his avatar.