Krugman inkles the D-word

ts-krugman-190Paul Krugman’s op-ed piece today took my fears about the global free fall in manufacturing from the monetary sector straight to the real sector.   He  makes the case that the U.S. economy may be at the start of depression.

“The fact is that recent economic numbers have been terrifying, not just in the United States but around the world. Manufacturing, in particular, is plunging everywhere. Banks aren’t lending; businesses and consumers aren’t spending. Let’s not mince words: This looks an awful lot like the beginning of a second Great Depression.”

As a liberal economist with impeccable credentials,  Dr. Krugman has always been called the consummate Keynesian.  This is despite his major contributions come from Trade Theory where he argues continually in his academic work for open, unfettered trade. Economists generally tend to be a pragmatic and practical sort because we focus on outcomes.

The main question posed by Krugman today concerns the Obama stimulus plan.

If we don’t act swiftly and boldly,” declared President-elect Barack Obama in his latest weekly address, “we could see a much deeper economic downturn that could lead to double-digit unemployment.” If you ask me, he was understating the case …

So will we “act swiftly and boldly” enough to stop that from happening? We’ll soon find out. “

Krugman continues with some extremely good back ground on fiscal and monetary policy.  He argues the Keynesian case for swift, large, fiscal policy.   As usual, the piece is to the point, easy to read, and right on.  I’m not going to repeat his case here because its his question that has been circulating in my mind all weekend.  While Krugman tackles the do we need monetary or fiscal policy question nicely, he does not confront the conflict within the fiscal policy debate.  Do we use tax cuts or government spending?

The answer to this question separates the true FDR-style Keynesian from the Reagan-style supply sider.  Any good Keynesian will choose government spending for several reasons.  The first is that when you give $1 trillion to a governor, they spend it all and they spend it on things that usually involve Americans.  In economic terms, the actual project isn’t that key.  When expanding the U.S. WW2 Museum or  the U.S. interstate system, a governor will use American workers, American Contractors, and American materials.  You can debate that the interstate system will have a longer impact on the economy but in terms of immediate stimulus, both will have the same bang for the buck.  They will start the process of multiplying through the economy with 100% of the stimulus out there stimulating.

Not so with the elusive tax cuts.  You can always tell a supply sider (the Reagan type) because their answer to EVERYTHING is cut taxes.  Got a recession?  Cut taxes.  Got inflation?  Cut taxes.  Got too many poor people? Cut taxes.  Cutting taxes is a more elusive thing because not all of the tax money goes out to stimulate demand for goods and services.  In fact, in most situations but especially with one time tax rebates and credits, the wise recession-fearing American will NOT spend the money but pay down debt or hold on to it in some kind of savings vehicle.  This does NOT stimulate the economy.  The spend-happy American may actually take the money and buy something like a fancy TV.  Chances are about 100% that the fancy TV is not built by an American, does not contain American materials, and probably stimulates the source country a lot more than it does the U.S. economy.  The only really stimulatory tax cut for the American consumer is one that he can see in his pay check month after month and year after year.  Even then, it will still not go to buying all  American goods and to buying at all.  100% of a tax cut never carries the bang that government spending does.  All you have to do is take an entry level economics course and any instructor worth their salt can prove this to you quite easily.

Republicans like their tax cuts to stimulate the businesses and business owners.  They argue that by giving businesses incentives to expand, they will hire more workers and buy more machines.  This sounds really logical and works when the economy is working. The problem is that when you are in a Depression/Recession, businesses aren’t expanding and they aren’t buying more stuff.  It isn’t because their taxes are too high.  It’s because they wouldn’t be able to sell the stuff they make even if they had cheap financing and low taxes.  That was the huge lesson of the Great Depression that some how Reagan Republicans missed.  It’s not just a matter of building it, pricing it right, and selling it.  It’s a matter of finding ANYONE to buy it.  Hopefully, all of this makes sense to you at this point.  Because I’m about to go back to Dr. Krugman’s question.

Before I read the op-ed page today at the Times, I read the front page.   The answer to Krugman’s  question is right there, oddly enough, before Krugman knew the answer.  We don’t have an FDR style liberal president folks.  We’ve got some one who has an appreciation for Ronald Reagan and that should’ve sent off a lot of firecrackers in folks’ minds during the primary. 

Here’s the headline:  Obama Plan Includes $300 Billion in Tax Cuts.

WASHINGTON — President-elect Barack Obama plans to include about $300 billion in tax cuts for workers and businesses in his economic recovery program, advisers said Sunday, as his team seeks to win over Congressional skeptics worried that he was too focused on government spending.

The legislation Mr. Obama is developing with Congressional Democrats will devote about 40 percent of the cost to tax cuts, including his centerpiece campaign promise to provide credits up to $500 for most workers, costing roughly $150 billion. The package will also include more than $100 billion in tax incentives for businesses to create jobs and invest in equipment or factories.

So Obama’s bold swift plan is warmed over Reagonomics.  It includes a tax credit for working families which will undoubtedly go straight into paying down credit card debt or other loans (last year’s or the year before’s spending) and a bunch of incentives to businesses who need customers, not tax savings on imaginary earnings.  All we need included in this is a break on the corporate income tax and sustaining the no capital gains tax and we’re completely back into Voodoo Economics land. 

Just in case you are going to point back to the Reagan recession in 1984 and say, well look things turned around back then, let me remind you that what really turned things around back than was a HUGE increase in military spending.  When Reagan re-started the arms race, he basically started a mini-war and it was all deficit financed.  In fact,  most economists that spend their time dissecting the past have completely debunked the supply side myth and pointed to the remilitarization of the 80s as the source of much of that growth.

Let me pull something else from that Time’s article.

 Mr. Obama’s advisers said they were still discussing with Congressional leaders the precise plan for phasing out the credit for wealthier Americans. They said no tax increases were included in the plan because it was focused on measures that create jobs. Obama aides have signaled that they will wait to let Mr. Bush’s tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans expire in 2010, rather than try to repeal them sooner.

Likewise, other tax proposals Mr. Obama made in the campaign are not in the economic package because they are not aimed directly at job creation. Aides said the president-elect might return to those later on, possibly as early as the annual budget proposal he is to present in February.

Conveniently, everything that should be considered a progressive tax and spending agenda is now considered not directly aimed at  job creation by the Obama Team.  Let me remind you, if businesses have no customers, no amount of tax credits or incentives will get them to spend.  If customers don’t have secure jobs and income above survival level, they will not spend.  If  NO ONE spends, then the government has to spend.  But then, I’m something that you’re not really seeing in the Obama Economic team:  A KEYNESIAN economist.

So, can I just say it here while I have your attention?  President Elect Obama is NO Liberal when it comes to the economy.  Is any one out there listening?

114 Responses

  1. He also has an interesting blog entry today that confirms my own fears – about Obama’s obsession with tax cuts and pleasing Republicans
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2009/01/05/hope-and-change-means-never-giving-up-on-tax-cuts/

  2. edge: exactly my point …

  3. I very much doubt Obama’s tax-cuts will benefit those who need it most, just like Bush’s didn’t.

    Krugman is a good columnist, but I will not forget that he did his fair share of Obamaboting during the general election. Obama is his candidate.

  4. edge: just read it, it looks like he’s saying a lot of what i’m saying here but not so long winded as me !!!

  5. I’m in moderation. Don’t know why. I didn’t use any known spammy words. There must be something new…

  6. i got it out DYB . I’m not sure what did it actually.

  7. I think I’m suffering whatever catarina is suffering: I’m in perpetual moderation. I just posted something at oohh…nuance and ended up in moderation. My comments about being in moderation are also in moderation.

  8. Oh, I did read it – and you obviously were saying this too. I merely brought the blog entry – because he seems more direct in his political implications that he was in his column that you referred.

  9. I’m wondering if any of the so-called self-annointed liberal blogs have noticed how Reaganesque this plan is looking

  10. I wouldn’t count on it dakinikat. I don’t know what it would take for the self-described progressive/liberal Obama champions like Markos, Arianna, and Sulli to call Barky out on his crap.

  11. edge: yup, i think that’s cause the column was written before the plan was announced and he’s till probably operating from what Obama said in the election rather than WORM

  12. There seems to be an Obama emphasis since the election on trying to please everyone with his economic picks and by offering peace to the Republicans even before they declare war on stimulus plans.

    Let’s hope, as Krugman does, that there’s a serious Plan B to push forward full speed ahead once McConnell and Co do the inevitable—and reject any seriously sufficient stimulus plan.

  13. Theheadlines in our town’s newspaper, over the last few days, has been that so many people in the state are filing enemployment that the funds actually are gone. There was no money in the pot to pay the unemployed.

    Talk about some people running very scared and getting desperate.

  14. All those “experts” from Wall Street, Insurance and Banking who took bonus money in the billions must have stashed it overseas in accounts the US cannot sieze. That money might as well have been launched into space.

  15. well, they’re talking about feb at the earliest for the plan, the more it sits, the worse it will get

  16. This is really starting to sound scary.

  17. I’m not sure how many of you have ever read the Financial Times, but here’s one of their columnists that I really like Martin Wolf on why the Keynes way is the best way:

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/be2dbf2c-d113-11dd-8cc3-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1

  18. Maybe we should trade recipes or how-tos for lean times, to cheer us up. The more that I hear about the economy and the closer we are to January 20, the more down in the dumps I get.

  19. Kim: it really is, and you’re right about states running out of money… they can’t deficit spend so other than raise taxes to take on the increases in unemployment payments, they’ve got no place to go if the Feds don’t fund them

  20. Dak, I am SO listening. And so agreeing.

  21. There was a surge in crime last week and I can’t help but wonder if the two are related. People who are barely getting buy on enemployment, do not need to hear that the funds have run out.

  22. Just got The Progress Report via email on the stimulus plan, it must have Soros blessings because it certainly didn’t question the inclusion of all these tax cuts to assuage the Rethugs …

  23. Sorry, “by on unemployment”. Why is it when I get upset, I misspell words?

  24. hi Heidi and thank you … where is the outrage now about this new package? it does not look the least ‘progressive’ it smacks of Reagonomics.

  25. TheRealKim> I have one word for you: Spam!

  26. Kim: crime and bad economies are very related, a lot of academic studies on that, the worse the labor markets, the more you see crime … especially domestic violence, the stress creates all kinds of crime problems

  27. Dakinikat,

    The problem for us poor folks is that states won’t raise income taxes, they will raise property taxes and make people pay more for parking and traffic tickets, drivers’ licences, and car registrations. Those are already really expensive in MA, and we have a flat income tax, so every tax we pay is regressive. Like the feds, our state is financed on the backs of the poor and middle classes and the rich pay almost nothing in proportional terms.

  28. Obama made no secret that he admired Reaganomics, even during the primaries. And his economic advisors are conservative privatizers. Why Krugman or anyone expected something different, I’ll never know. I just hope and pray that the Democratic Congress doesn’t allow Obama to get rid of Social Security. I don’t want to be stepping of the bodies of elderly people who have died on the street homeless and starving.

  29. People are apparently walking out of their houses in foreclosure and leaving their pets behind to starve to death. They don’t let realtors or bankers on the property until the paperwork is done and that can be a month or more. This is going to be a very bad time for the most vulnerable among us.

  30. Hi dak,
    It turns out that the most of the country is just too afraid to criticize Obama and his team on anything. Part of this is human nature: so many people wanted to believe that anybody would be significantly better than Bush and they want to continue to believe that – and to criticize Obama means surrendering wishful thinking. It does take some measure of guts to do that, in all areas of one’s life.

    I think it makes it easier for people to do so when they have real reasons provided. So, people need to understand why Obamanomics is looking a lot like Reaganomics and they need to understand why Reaganomics does not address the sort of manufacturing depression we are seeing. That’s what is so great about your post. By explaining this, you give people a way of understanding how to criticize Obamanomics without feeling like they are just being naysayers.

  31. i’ve just never gotten why republicans are so obsessed with taxes. where do they think the money comes from to buy all those war toys?

  32. Heidi Li,

    People are also afraid to criticize Obama for fear of being called racist. That was the genius that motivated the powerful people who bought the Presidency for him. He’s black, so he must be liberal. He’s black, so you can’t criticize him without risking being social ostracized.

  33. Dakinikat,

    They think the money should come from the same people who will be used as cannon fodder for their wars.

  34. some alarms also should have gone off when Obama kept calling the very folks Roosevelt tried to help nasty names during the primary… he’s never really represented any little guy, if there ever was a case of the elitism, it’s the Obama camp

  35. Well Guys, his love affaire with Reaganomics is beginning to become clearer. This hopey changey shit was a scam from the beginning. It’s heartbreaking to watch the Dems f*ck over the little people just as the Republicans did. But when I watched CNN and MSNBC trash the working class pretty regularly this past year, I saw the hand writing on the wall.

  36. “i’ve just never gotten why republicans are so obsessed with taxes. where do they think the money comes from to buy all those war toys?”

    because they are selfish assholes. They want to eat from the pot but put nothing in it

  37. Has anyone besides Unapologetic Feminist and me noticed that Obama’s plans for new jobs all favor men? Construction jobs as the way out of a depression? Tell that to the millions of women who are the sole support of themselves or their families, and who don’t have health insurance, to boot.

    Also, Obama is talking about beefing up unemployment insurance, but how does that help those who are underemployed, or have given up searching, or have put up their own shingle and are truly small enterprises? This whole thing is looking increasingly like Obama is going to bungle it, going from one bad set of suggestions to another set–and always too late to be of any benefit.

  38. there’s very little daylight left between Dems and Rethugs these days … about the only difference is how far the rethugs are willing to trade social liberties for tax cuts, but now I think even that will go, just look at how Obama has cozied up to Rick Warren and was so neutral about prop 8

  39. Heidi,

    They have perfected the race baiting tactic. It shocks me how so many liberals and progressives are blinded by this crap.

  40. I seem to recall that when Bush announced his tax rebate, the fauxgressives had a tizzy. Is a $500 tax cut all that different? Oh well, I guess whenever Obama does the same stupid sh!t as Bush, the obots will just call it brilliant and then promptly put their collective heads back in the sand.

    Heading for a depression? Let’s see, it took over a year for the powers that be to admit we were in a recession, so by my calculations we’re already in a depression. That’s gxm math for ya. ;D

  41. And the Obots called McCain “Bush’s third term”

    Who said irony is dead?

  42. Kendall Johnson, I recall a video circulating the blogs that included interviews with folks from West Virginia. The hateful and disparaging comments that came out of ObamaNation were shocking. It is downright insulting to liberalism to have the obot bigots make a claim to it. They are not liberal or progressive. Frankly, they look more like brown shirts than anything else.

  43. FUCK tax cuts. Send me a check. That 1.5T would have been 5000 for every citizen. A family of 3 would have 15 grand to pay on their mortgage, or buy a car or save in a bank, all of this would have been a HELL of a lot better than the gift to the banks, and the “ah, screw you” to the auto induxtry.

  44. Krugman actually preferred Clinton. He was critical of Obama all the way until the GE. The guys choice at that point was a continuation of conservative fiscal policy or a slightly more likely chance that the guy who paraded as a conservative during the primaries might enact some liberal policies.

    I actually like Krugman on fiscal policy, a huge compliment because economists often drive me crazy. I about wanted to throttle Greenspan with his “who could have imagined” tax cuts and increased federal spending on the war will drive up the deficit. Geez….. Don’t get me started on Goolsbee and his Obama is so smashing for giving everyone a check. Then there was the businesses will just shut their doors rather than pay a wage increase debate that took forever to get over. If I had a nickel for each bad call made by “experts” I’d be rich.

  45. Owen,

    You aren’t getting a check. They are going to give you $50 a payday for the next 4 months. Woohoo! try not to spend it all in one place.

  46. Obama is the MAN’s guy. His programs greatly favor men. Women were always meant to be left out. I would bet a pay check that equal pay for women is a dead letter now that Clinton is out of the Senate. Men won’t voluntarily share power and wealth with women. WE HAVE TO TAKE IT. But if there is one thing that rings clear, it is that we have to stick together. A big part of why Senator Clinton was defeated is that the women’s groups and women in many parts of this country didn’t stick up for her. I believe that the fall-out of so many women’s complacancy screwed all of us. There is no doubt in my mind that if she were POTUS Women’s employment opportunities and equal pay would be a priority.

  47. Well

    The great thing about the word depression is its so malleable, just like the numbers that are massaged (think poverty level, unemployment, inflation)to make things look rosier than they are for long periods of time.

    If you ask 5 different economists what qualifies as a depression you might get f 5 different answers since prolonged is not defined.

  48. IMO, there is a good chance the Republicans will do what they did in regard to Clinton’s health care proposal: be obstructionist even to the point of being destructive, in hopes of gaining political advantage.

  49. grayslady,

    Obama, like bush, has no real plan. What he has are center right economic advisers. It is just the same old poop, but it is supposed to smell better from Obama.

  50. ps… I will not get that 500 dollars and I NEED it. But I will not get it because I am behind on my college loans from 4 years ago.

  51. At the same time, I can’t get over my nasty suspicion that those who predict Great Depressions are secretly hoping for one.

  52. gxm17,

    I agree. It’s insulting that they even call themselves liberals or progressive. More scamalot!!!!!!!

  53. myiq2xu: some of them HAVE to be coming out of Denial on this … it’s not even subtle

  54. If you haven’t seen Frozen River, I suggest you take a peek. It not only deals with people trying to get by but also is told from a woman’s view point. Just a thought!

  55. hey I have a recipe for stone soup for lean times if any one is interested?

    DakiniKat I love you more and more each day…the science may be dismal but you show us that there isa good solution to this problem that is easy correct and will absolutely be ignored by the “liberal keyensians”

    I do not know whether to laugh or cry?

  56. plural

    The plan is really timid. The GOP will looooove it because in 4 years they can put it on the Democrats. The infrastructure spending should have gone first. Then, after creating jobs, they could have floated folks some checks to boost spending or it should have been done together. Giving people who have a job $50 every 2 weeks for 4 months isn’t going to do much. Heck, the people who aren’t employed aren’t even going to see any money since basically the plan seems to be to cut payroll taxes to give you more of the your check.

  57. CWaltz: Supposedly those that don’t pay taxes will get checks.

  58. Fuzzy:

    I have my grandma’s recipes for Scraped Icebox and Dishrag Soup!

  59. Republicans don’t mind spending any amount of money on the war machine. They brag that Reagan put us into debt to win the cold war. Cheney bragged that Reagan proved deficits don’t matter.

    But I don’t think anyone could turn this economy around in four years. Obama will get the blame. Which is fine with me. He’s going to need every one of those religious groups he’s coddling to get reelected.

  60. How?

    From what I read today they were saying that instead of cutting rebate checks they were going to be giving (this was their example) a person making $24,400, $60 a payday($120 a month) for 4 months.

    Are they going to do rebate checks for some and tax cuts for others? The plan seems pretty poorly thought out from everything I have read. I hope the infrastructure plan is better thought out. Hades, they forgot to put in the bailout bill for the auto companies that they should be using American suppliers for parts first and foremost. Doh.

  61. About half of that would go to workers under what Mr. Obama during his campaign called the Making Work Pay credit, worth up to $500 for individuals and $1,000 for families. The Obama campaign estimated that about 150 million Americans making less than $200,000 would qualify, including those who make too little to pay federal income taxes but would receive a check that would offset Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes.

    CW: that’s from the times article, i haven’t actually seen the plan yet so i have to rely on the reports

  62. Myiq

    Do you watch George Lopez? Him and his wife were having a contest on who could spend the least and they scraped the icebox for scowcones (fish and corn flavor). It was funny seeing frugal to the extreme. I am stocking up and taking advantage of freebies. Cottonelle is free at Kroger this week with coupon and 12 yogurts for under a dollar using coupons. I’ve pinched pennies forever so we’ll probably make this downturn intact.

  63. dakini

    No one has. It’s ever evolving- just like Obama. Lord help us all.

  64. Krugman::

    The biggest problem facing the Obama plan, however, is likely to be the demand of many politicians for proof that the benefits of the proposed public spending justify its costs — a burden of proof never imposed on proposals for tax cuts.

  65. Jmac: the assumption being government makes bad decisioins, individuals make good decisions …

    right, let’s see … money for botox good, money for schools, bad

  66. People used to throw pork fat in with beans just to add calories.

    Gravy was the grease from meat fat with milk, flour, salt and pepper.

    Meat was served once a day (if you were lucky) and the portions were small.

  67. Frankly, I don’t trust Obama’s infrastructure plan, should it get enacted, to help working people or the economy as a whole. I predict Obama will do to domestic spending what Junior Bush did to war – shovel all the money to corrupt cronies who will build shoddy product, when anything gets built at all.

    We can all be frozen Chicago tenants now.

  68. The irony being – this is the same batch who didn’t ask a single question on a 700 billion dollar financial institution bailout. But hey Citibank gets it’s name on a stadium- that’s good use of tax money right?

  69. well, look at what happens when you let the businesses decide what to do with money: huge executive bonuses, private jets … yes, CW, names on stadiums … dividends, buying other bankrupt entities …

    private businesses make SUCH good decisions, by all means, give them more money! roflmao

  70. George Lopez says when he was a kid a “Lunchable” was a hot dog weiner wrapped in a corn tortilla and sprinkled with Tapatio sauce.

    Actually, that sounds pretty good.

  71. Breaking News: Leon Panetta to be named head of CIA

  72. Dakini

    I think there is plenty of waste in government. That said, the schools don’t pay for themselves. One of my biggest arguments is that the Democrats have seemed to cede the tax argument and seem hades bent on letting the electorate think they can have increased spending on programs while also having cuts on taxes without having to someday pay the piper.

  73. It’s worth bearing in mind that the stimulus proposal is really just an initial negotiating position.

    Obama, given his “new” politics, is going to want all the bipartisan cover he can possibly rummage up to demonstrate just how wonderful his “reaching out” skills are.

    So if he has already built in 40% tax cuts, what do you think the version acceptable to Republicans will look like? 50%? 60%?

  74. I like a hot dog with a little mayo and hot sauce. I also am in love with 5 guy hotdogs. They take the dog and wrap it in bacon and cheese. MMMMMMMMMM So bad for you but oh so yummy.

  75. “Leon Panetta to be named head of CIA”

    Seriously?

  76. plural: seriously

  77. The news about the global free fall in manufacturing is unsettling (although not unexpected).

    Its funny, but we went to Sam’s Club yesterday to stock up and I think there were actually more employees in the store than shoppers. They also still had a pretty good selection of wrapping paper and other Christmas products they were trying to sell at 50% off.

    On a totally unrelated topic, I noticed a story at foxnews about pictures of breastfeeding women being taken off face book for being obscene, and it made me think of yesterday’s advertising post. Kind of ironic that breastfeeding photos are considered obscene, while advertising photos that are one stepped removed from pornography are apparently perfectly acceptable.

  78. Is there anyone from the Clinton admin who is still looking for a job? Doubtful. He has managed to reemploy just about everybody who was anybody from back then.

    Change? Yeah, right.

  79. We have a lot of discussion about the effective tax rates on incomes here in the U.S. so I thought i’d post this here … ’specially for you BB!!! Here’s the latest info on the progressivity of taxes in the U.S. broken down by income quintiles. With the top Quintile being broken down into further detail.

    Here are the total effective federal tax rates for 2005, the most recent year available from the CBO.

    Lowest quintile: 4.3 percent
    Second quintile: 9.9 percent
    Middle quintile: 14.2 percent
    Fourth quintile: 17.4 percent
    Percentiles 81-90: 20.3 percent
    Percentiles 91-95: 22.4 percent
    Percentiles 96-99: 25.7 percent
    Percentiles 99.0-99.5: 29.7 percent
    Percentiles 99.5-99.9: 31.2 percent
    Percentiles 99.9-99.99: 32.1 percent
    Top 0.01 Percentile: 31.5 percent

    N.B.: These figures include all federal taxes, not just income taxes.

  80. Pat Johnson

    His argument is going to be that he hired the same folks Clinton would have come 2012. I’d bet money on it.

    The plan is to succeed or jettison the Clintons in my opinion.

  81. Another Clinton alum will be solicitor general:

    Elena Kagan (born April 28, 1960) is the dean of Harvard Law School and the Charles Hamilton Houston Professor of Law at Harvard University. She previously served as a professor of law at the University of Chicago Law School. It was reported on January 5, 2009 that she will be nominated to serve as solicitor general in the Obama administration. …

    From 1995 to 1999, Kagan served as Associate Counsel to U.S. President Bill Clinton and Deputy Assistant to the President for Domestic Policy and Deputy Director of the Domestic Policy Council.

    On June 17, 1999, President Clinton nominated Kagan to serve as a Judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, to replace James L. Buckley, who had taken senior status three years earlier. However, the Republican-led Senate Judiciary Committee declined to bring her nomination forward for a hearing. Kagan was one of two D.C. Circuit nominees whose nominations were not acted on before Clinton’s term ended in January 2001

  82. Also: here’s a link you might want to read:

    http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/
    oped/articles/2009/01/05/who_should_get_the_federal_stimulus_funds/

    This is by Harvard’s economist Edward Glaesar

  83. sam

    I said the same to my husband. Apparently Facebook is okay with a pic of two guys groping and force feeding beer to a cardboard cutout but showing nipples is obsence. It’s absurd.

  84. you’ll have to take the space out of the link, any way that boston op ed piece is the argument against what i made, if you’re interested

  85. I wonder what state breakdown would look like?

  86. CWaltz: It came from the CBO, the report I looked at is just the national data and it’s historical…

    http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/98xx/doc9884/12-23-EffectiveTaxRates_Letter.pdf

  87. Whoever up above that was talking about the state unemployment fund…one of the things the Feds will probably do quickly is to inject cash into those accounts so unemployment benefits can continue to be paid. As I recall, that happened in Louisiana during one of the oil busts. I can’t recall if the Feds “loaned” it to the state or what, but they were able to keep unemployment benefits going.

  88. Breaking news: MN Board of Elections will certify Al Franken as ahead but will not give him an election certificate … 7 days to throw the results into court

  89. OT: I need some advice. I had a credit card, on which I paid off a full balance about a month ago. On line I clicked “pay in full” and paid it off. Then I get a statement for interest on that amount. I call and the rep argues it’s the interest accrued through the time I paid off the card. I said fine, process the full amount due right now and cancel the card. She does. And now I get another invoice for $1.50. This is now interest on that interest I paid off over the phone! The problem is that this 1.50 will become .90 and then .30 on and on and on. What do I tell them when I call them? This is ridiculous! Charging interest on interest that’s paid off seems really absurd. (This is a Chase card, by the way.)

  90. TheRealKim> You said we should exchange recipes for rainy days. My solution for rainy days is spam. I heard sales were way up already.

  91. okay, so i have a weird question, according to the news about EVERY constitutional lawyer on the planet has told Reid he has no standing to NOT seat Burris, and it’s besically a constitutional law thing, I thought the only real claim to fame Obama has is his consitutional law degree from Harvard ? So why hasn’t he said anything about this? What do you suppose the WORM will be on this?

  92. Knew I’d find this. It’s on uppity woman’s website: Poverty recipes:

    http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com/poverty-recipes/

  93. I’m not keen on giving states a blank check either. I think there is plenty of waste on a state level. Thar said, I do think that this would be an opportunity to expand health care in states. The last thing needed though is the government giving money to corporate entities without extracting stipulations. A perfect example is Virginia and the intermodal facility it gave NS money for. The rationale was that giving them money would create jobs. The thing is NS is pushing to have remote run trains which would actually mean that it is getting money to increase profit but the company itself will be cutting its employment long term(while also decreasing its safety).

  94. For those interested in a barebones grocery budget, google Hillbilly Housewife. They have a no money to spare grocery list and menu planner that’ll do in a pinch. It’d get old fast probably but you do what you got to.

  95. Well this seems as appropriate a time as any to mention that Bon Jovi is holding a Retire the Debt concert for Hillary in Madison Square Garden. At this rate, I think America will need a Retire the Debt concert.

  96. I’d read about that Regency. Evidently she is trying to pay 6.3 million down.

  97. Regency: maybe we need a national lottery and power ball

  98. DK: Maybe. That’d certainly stimulate the economy.

  99. The announcement now is that Leon Panetta will lead the CIA. And his qualifications for that job? Apparently you don’t need qualifications! But then we already knew that.

  100. dakinikat, on January 5th, 2009 at 4:33 pm Said:

    Regency: maybe we need a national lottery and power ball

    I’ve wondered before why they never thought of that.

  101. Question #13 on the NY TImes puzzle The Year in Questions is : Who are the PUMAS?

    whoooot!

    we’ve made the NY Times crossword puzzle!!!

  102. dk: I remember hearing something about this and had to google. It appears that even the lotteries are having hard times.

    http://tinyurl.com/6voc4j

  103. Dakinikat,

    What the answer?

  104. bb: Hillary Clinton supporters that refused to back Barrack Obama

  105. We are sooooooo kewl!!

  106. Dakini,

    There are plenty of things Obama doesn’t get about the Constitution–like separation of church and state, no line-item veto, the legislature has to approve laws the the President proposes, and on and on….

  107. i like the lottery idea.

  108. Dakinikat,

    What do the percentages represent? Are they the percent of federal taxes paid by each tax bracket or are the the percent of income paid by each bracket. Progressivity is based on the percent of a person’s income that goes to taxes. Obviously the top brackets are going to pay more.

    And you also have to take state taxes into consideration. Gas taxes, property taxes, fees, and so on take a great percentage of income from poor people, so they may not have enough left for food, clothing, medicine. The upper brackets will have plenty for necessities even if they pay 50-60%, which they don’t.

  109. DYB: re the Chase card payoff. Here was my solution. I paid an extra $25. By law they must refund an overpayment to you if it sits there for 1 or 2 months. Thus they have to cut you that check. I figured it cost them way more to cut that check.

    Making stimulus really help. I think for most working people the reduction in FICA is direct, easy and will be spent or saved. In the current climate I find myself doing two things. Thinking about retiring all debt. Thinking about putting aside funds for cash savings. I find myself not thinking about spending. I think there are some things that would attract me to spend. A big one would be energy saving improvements to my home and auto. I would see that as a long term payback in future expenses. Another thing that I would suggest that probably would not be so popular would be for the government to take this opportunity to revitalize and enlarge our armed forces. Good jobs and training for both male and females. I would set up a nationwide web of multi-age Knowledge Centers with the goal of making every American proficient in computer applications. I would include cell phone skills for older adults. I would build cell phone and internet access to reach every nook and cranny—maybe a national satellite system. Sorry folks but if you live in out of the way places like I do you find we do not have that access or it is limited. We have areas around us that only have old telephone dial-up.

  110. BB: basically each category represents an income level. The bottom quintile is th 20% of the lowest income earners and the top is the the top 20%. They further break down the top 20% so that you see as you go to the top 1 % what there top tax bracket is. So the poorest 20% of the population pays 4.3 percent on the last dollar of their income while the richest 1 percent pays around 30 % of a $ they earn in taxes. The bottom earns their last dollar and pays about 4 cents to the government. The riches earn their last dollar and pay about 1/3 of it to the government. Most folks in the middle will pay 15 cents on their last dollar of income. It demonstrates that the super rich pay twice as much in taxes on their last dollar than the middle class … we have a progressive tax system.

  111. DYB: credit card payment laws are a combination of federal and state laws … you have to read the damned fine print to figure out how they can mess you over …

  112. bb: in terms of state taxes, minnesota is very progressive, others are not so … each state is different. Lousiana relies on sales taxes which are extremely regressive. Minnesota relies on income and property.

    Some states are really not worth living in, but people choose to live there anyway

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