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	<title>Comments on: Breaking America&#8217;s Glass Color Barrier</title>
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	<description>A weblog for Democrats in Exile</description>
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		<title>By: Laurie</title>
		<link>http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/breaking-americas-glass-color-barrier/#comment-261221</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 20:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/?p=11615#comment-261221</guid>
		<description>I won a beauty contest when I was 15. My big stepsister entered me and I remember hating every step I made around the pool. I always thought I won because I had a slightly padded swimmimg costume on. 
Anyway -thank god for feminism in 1965-they came out big against beauty contests and I agreed then as I do now.
However I&#039;m sure that griffinnc&#039;s experience was much better than mine. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I won a beauty contest when I was 15. My big stepsister entered me and I remember hating every step I made around the pool. I always thought I won because I had a slightly padded swimmimg costume on.<br />
Anyway -thank god for feminism in 1965-they came out big against beauty contests and I agreed then as I do now.<br />
However I&#8217;m sure that griffinnc&#8217;s experience was much better than mine. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: griffithinc</title>
		<link>http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/breaking-americas-glass-color-barrier/#comment-261213</link>
		<dc:creator>griffithinc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 20:04:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/?p=11615#comment-261213</guid>
		<description>I was in the Miss America Pageant in 1975, I started in the pageant system in college to get scholarships and have a place to perform (with a live orchestra at that time.)  When I heard about the pictures of Vanessa Williams I sent off a letter to Al Marks, the then president of the organization, and asked him not to have Vanessa step down.  Obviously, he didn&#039;t listen to me.  The pageant was very puritan back then, but it was one of the few places women could get scholarships through mostly arts competition (singing, playing an instrument, dancing etc.)  In this time of feminism and women in high positions through out the world, the pageant has become mostly outdated.  I used the pageant to my advantage, and knew it was a means to get some things that I would have been unable to get otherwise.  I got to travel my state, the country and the world thanks to the Miss America Pageant (I did a wonderful USO tour of Germany, Greece, Italy and Turkey the year after w/5 other contestants and Miss America that I count as one of the most rewarding experiences in my life.)  I also made lifelong friends and got invaluable experience that served me well when I became a full time professional musician after my year serving my state.  Say what you will about Miss America, but for many of us it served us well, helped pay for college and will always be an experience that I will look back on as a wonderful time in my young life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was in the Miss America Pageant in 1975, I started in the pageant system in college to get scholarships and have a place to perform (with a live orchestra at that time.)  When I heard about the pictures of Vanessa Williams I sent off a letter to Al Marks, the then president of the organization, and asked him not to have Vanessa step down.  Obviously, he didn&#8217;t listen to me.  The pageant was very puritan back then, but it was one of the few places women could get scholarships through mostly arts competition (singing, playing an instrument, dancing etc.)  In this time of feminism and women in high positions through out the world, the pageant has become mostly outdated.  I used the pageant to my advantage, and knew it was a means to get some things that I would have been unable to get otherwise.  I got to travel my state, the country and the world thanks to the Miss America Pageant (I did a wonderful USO tour of Germany, Greece, Italy and Turkey the year after w/5 other contestants and Miss America that I count as one of the most rewarding experiences in my life.)  I also made lifelong friends and got invaluable experience that served me well when I became a full time professional musician after my year serving my state.  Say what you will about Miss America, but for many of us it served us well, helped pay for college and will always be an experience that I will look back on as a wonderful time in my young life.</p>
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		<title>By: vbonnaire</title>
		<link>http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/breaking-americas-glass-color-barrier/#comment-261044</link>
		<dc:creator>vbonnaire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 06:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/?p=11615#comment-261044</guid>
		<description>ps:  I was the one on the donkey who went to Greece. I think.

My best friend was the blonde runner -- she was --

The latina? -- we knew her!

And the punky filmaker/artist -- we knew her too!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ps:  I was the one on the donkey who went to Greece. I think.</p>
<p>My best friend was the blonde runner &#8212; she was &#8211;</p>
<p>The latina? &#8212; we knew her!</p>
<p>And the punky filmaker/artist &#8212; we knew her too!</p>
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		<title>By: vbonnaire</title>
		<link>http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/breaking-americas-glass-color-barrier/#comment-261042</link>
		<dc:creator>vbonnaire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 05:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/?p=11615#comment-261042</guid>
		<description>Actually, we did protest the war out here in CA.  It was the older high school and college types who came to Jr. High and got us involved.  Also Roe v. Wade had just passed.

This gen, maybe more so on the coasts like RD &amp; I are were near big cities -- that would have thrust us into what RD told us all about that movie Sex and the City.  This gen had lots of relationships, it really did -- it had one night stands, -- all sorts of things -- because the Leary set had paved the way.  Women and Men in this gen have had their hearts broken many times over -- many times and yet, we have intense idealism -- just intense.

Sometimes we were kind of on our own because a lot of the parents were off &quot;doing their own thing&quot; -- so we were watching The Brady Bunch or the Partridge Family -- maybe?  The mom in the partridge family could have been our moms?  There is also a movie called Running with Scissors out that I saw as a precise portrait of the times -- in the 70&#039;s if you were near NY or LA?

We have Pluto in Virgo! ---- many of us.  That is service and the arts as crafts -- writers?  Many of us died of overdoses, some got aids as that came about in the 80&#039;s -- our gen has been through much, so very very much.  It has -- but RD &amp; I -- I&#039;m just going to guess on this based on what I know of her and her drive and feminism -- we were the girls who wanted educations and we had to do that ourselves -- we did -- nobody paved the road for us -- nobody.

If you look at Madonna?  She did that herself, and you can see how she has just left for a new partner, as well.

That&#039;s our gen.  We might have come out selfish in some cases -- but others SERVE! no kidding.... it is a real mixed group, and we know each other very well -- very very well.

The women in this group?  We are so strong. We had to prove ourselves like you cannot believe -- so perhaps for Vanessa or even Sarah they started out the &quot;beauty Pageant route&quot; -----
Some just wanted a house and kids and that&#039;s it.  Some KNEW we would go to school -- we knew it, but we would decide when!

I swear.  And I went back at 38 for my Masters.  Our group has worked at a zillion different things -- and we are willing to change careers.  Some of us have gone through layoffs, gee.

Like RD said about that couch?  Yeah.  She is going to help Brook go to school I bet -- before she will buy that couch.  
I just know it about her, because I feel I can see into her heart through her words....

hugs RD.

ps: this gen is pretty groovy looking -- most of the time!
I&#039;m thinking of the moms in that film &quot;Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants&quot; ------ those teen girls in that movie?

That was us! --- as teens!  I swear.......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, we did protest the war out here in CA.  It was the older high school and college types who came to Jr. High and got us involved.  Also Roe v. Wade had just passed.</p>
<p>This gen, maybe more so on the coasts like RD &amp; I are were near big cities &#8212; that would have thrust us into what RD told us all about that movie Sex and the City.  This gen had lots of relationships, it really did &#8212; it had one night stands, &#8212; all sorts of things &#8212; because the Leary set had paved the way.  Women and Men in this gen have had their hearts broken many times over &#8212; many times and yet, we have intense idealism &#8212; just intense.</p>
<p>Sometimes we were kind of on our own because a lot of the parents were off &#8220;doing their own thing&#8221; &#8212; so we were watching The Brady Bunch or the Partridge Family &#8212; maybe?  The mom in the partridge family could have been our moms?  There is also a movie called Running with Scissors out that I saw as a precise portrait of the times &#8212; in the 70&#8217;s if you were near NY or LA?</p>
<p>We have Pluto in Virgo! &#8212;- many of us.  That is service and the arts as crafts &#8212; writers?  Many of us died of overdoses, some got aids as that came about in the 80&#8217;s &#8212; our gen has been through much, so very very much.  It has &#8212; but RD &amp; I &#8212; I&#8217;m just going to guess on this based on what I know of her and her drive and feminism &#8212; we were the girls who wanted educations and we had to do that ourselves &#8212; we did &#8212; nobody paved the road for us &#8212; nobody.</p>
<p>If you look at Madonna?  She did that herself, and you can see how she has just left for a new partner, as well.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s our gen.  We might have come out selfish in some cases &#8212; but others SERVE! no kidding&#8230;. it is a real mixed group, and we know each other very well &#8212; very very well.</p>
<p>The women in this group?  We are so strong. We had to prove ourselves like you cannot believe &#8212; so perhaps for Vanessa or even Sarah they started out the &#8220;beauty Pageant route&#8221; &#8212;&#8211;<br />
Some just wanted a house and kids and that&#8217;s it.  Some KNEW we would go to school &#8212; we knew it, but we would decide when!</p>
<p>I swear.  And I went back at 38 for my Masters.  Our group has worked at a zillion different things &#8212; and we are willing to change careers.  Some of us have gone through layoffs, gee.</p>
<p>Like RD said about that couch?  Yeah.  She is going to help Brook go to school I bet &#8212; before she will buy that couch.<br />
I just know it about her, because I feel I can see into her heart through her words&#8230;.</p>
<p>hugs RD.</p>
<p>ps: this gen is pretty groovy looking &#8212; most of the time!<br />
I&#8217;m thinking of the moms in that film &#8220;Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants&#8221; &#8212;&#8212; those teen girls in that movie?</p>
<p>That was us! &#8212; as teens!  I swear&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: roofingbird</title>
		<link>http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/breaking-americas-glass-color-barrier/#comment-261024</link>
		<dc:creator>roofingbird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 04:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/?p=11615#comment-261024</guid>
		<description>Constance_Your statement begged a really complicated response. 

I think your characterization of the women on MTV, is apt, even though I would say that the men are involved in this behavior as well. 

Men and women have been trying to appeal and present themselves to those they find attractive since before they were human.

There is nothing wrong with praising beauty, whatever we think that is, when we find it, whether it’s art, a sunset, or women’s and men’s bodies.

Sexuality is complicated, often involves role play, and uses all the senses. There is nothing wrong with being good at it.

However, having said all that, there are many factors at work. Attainment of the conservative pageant crown by Williams was a span of 20 years, from the 1964 civil rights passage to 1984. Even while we denigrated the pageant system, it we knew it had significance.

 In this case it allowed a national outlet for women of color to think of themselves as accepted, beautiful and equal, even if in the confines of that system. In the meantime, the sexuality advances for women, of the 60’s and 70’s were being lost to the rapidly constricting 80’s that were part of the Reaganomics gloom.

The Miss America Pageant was the closest thing we had to crowning a “princess”. So, the idea that a small child of color could one day have that sparkly crown, and maybe win a chance a future, like her sisters, was pretty appealing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Constance_Your statement begged a really complicated response. </p>
<p>I think your characterization of the women on MTV, is apt, even though I would say that the men are involved in this behavior as well. </p>
<p>Men and women have been trying to appeal and present themselves to those they find attractive since before they were human.</p>
<p>There is nothing wrong with praising beauty, whatever we think that is, when we find it, whether it’s art, a sunset, or women’s and men’s bodies.</p>
<p>Sexuality is complicated, often involves role play, and uses all the senses. There is nothing wrong with being good at it.</p>
<p>However, having said all that, there are many factors at work. Attainment of the conservative pageant crown by Williams was a span of 20 years, from the 1964 civil rights passage to 1984. Even while we denigrated the pageant system, it we knew it had significance.</p>
<p> In this case it allowed a national outlet for women of color to think of themselves as accepted, beautiful and equal, even if in the confines of that system. In the meantime, the sexuality advances for women, of the 60’s and 70’s were being lost to the rapidly constricting 80’s that were part of the Reaganomics gloom.</p>
<p>The Miss America Pageant was the closest thing we had to crowning a “princess”. So, the idea that a small child of color could one day have that sparkly crown, and maybe win a chance a future, like her sisters, was pretty appealing.</p>
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		<title>By: Constance</title>
		<link>http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/breaking-americas-glass-color-barrier/#comment-260913</link>
		<dc:creator>Constance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 00:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/?p=11615#comment-260913</guid>
		<description>By the way myiq2xu I hate people who declare &quot;if you think that  then you must think blah blah blah (always something completely unappealing&quot;).  My Ex husband did that, and no I do not think what you said, that is you apparently needing to have an argument with yourself and your own ridiculous ideas which you have some need to attribute to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way myiq2xu I hate people who declare &#8220;if you think that  then you must think blah blah blah (always something completely unappealing&#8221;).  My Ex husband did that, and no I do not think what you said, that is you apparently needing to have an argument with yourself and your own ridiculous ideas which you have some need to attribute to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Constance</title>
		<link>http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/breaking-americas-glass-color-barrier/#comment-260912</link>
		<dc:creator>Constance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 00:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/?p=11615#comment-260912</guid>
		<description>myiq2xu:  How would you come up with the idea that I would prefer an androgynous society where everyone is sexless from what I said?  I love sex and I am heterosexual not that it matters.  But I like real natural women and I like women who enjoy their entire sexuality not just the half men have let them experience which is the half where they dress up in prescribed but uncomfortable restrictive clothes and pose.  I also think Miss America is a ridiculous competition as do most people judging from their TV ratings.  All the Miss America women are beautiful although in a totally contrived manner so why compete.  I am sorry, maybe it is because I am white but I find the idea of Vanessa Williams as a bold breaker of barriers for women silly. And by this point I have had 3 coffees and as awake as I am going to get.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>myiq2xu:  How would you come up with the idea that I would prefer an androgynous society where everyone is sexless from what I said?  I love sex and I am heterosexual not that it matters.  But I like real natural women and I like women who enjoy their entire sexuality not just the half men have let them experience which is the half where they dress up in prescribed but uncomfortable restrictive clothes and pose.  I also think Miss America is a ridiculous competition as do most people judging from their TV ratings.  All the Miss America women are beautiful although in a totally contrived manner so why compete.  I am sorry, maybe it is because I am white but I find the idea of Vanessa Williams as a bold breaker of barriers for women silly. And by this point I have had 3 coffees and as awake as I am going to get.</p>
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		<title>By: Liberty Belle not for Obama</title>
		<link>http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/breaking-americas-glass-color-barrier/#comment-260910</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberty Belle not for Obama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 00:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/?p=11615#comment-260910</guid>
		<description>gxm17 - Don&#039;t forget that the tail end of the Baby Boom has also been called &quot;The Me Generation&quot;, especially if they graduated from high school after 1972.  Nixon signed the peace treaty with North Vietnam in January 1973, and therefore, the guys didn&#039;t worry about being drafted once the troops started withdrawing.  That lead to a different preoccupation  - with self (didn&#039;t have to serve or protest), or so the theory goes.

I could see the difference a year makes in evidence for some of that age cohort.

Psychodemographics was one source on The Me Generation that I recall from the &#039;90&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gxm17 &#8211; Don&#8217;t forget that the tail end of the Baby Boom has also been called &#8220;The Me Generation&#8221;, especially if they graduated from high school after 1972.  Nixon signed the peace treaty with North Vietnam in January 1973, and therefore, the guys didn&#8217;t worry about being drafted once the troops started withdrawing.  That lead to a different preoccupation  &#8211; with self (didn&#8217;t have to serve or protest), or so the theory goes.</p>
<p>I could see the difference a year makes in evidence for some of that age cohort.</p>
<p>Psychodemographics was one source on The Me Generation that I recall from the &#8217;90&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: vbonnaire</title>
		<link>http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/breaking-americas-glass-color-barrier/#comment-260908</link>
		<dc:creator>vbonnaire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 00:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>RD &amp; Co!  LOOK !  It&#039;s off topic in a way but look!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.wowowow.com/post/gaza-violence-adds-big-job-clintons-do-list-secretary-state-164896

GO HILLARY, OH GO!

the last paragraph gives me all the PUMAHOPE I need.

finally, a feminist wrote a good thing about her!
FINALLY!  OHHHHHHHHHHHHH! yay! 

Oh RD, she is the best, the best.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RD &amp; Co!  LOOK !  It&#8217;s off topic in a way but look!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.wowowow.com/post/gaza-violence-adds-big-job-clintons-do-list-secretary-state-164896" rel="nofollow">http://www.wowowow.com/post/gaza-violence-adds-big-job-clintons-do-list-secretary-state-164896</a></p>
<p>GO HILLARY, OH GO!</p>
<p>the last paragraph gives me all the PUMAHOPE I need.</p>
<p>finally, a feminist wrote a good thing about her!<br />
FINALLY!  OHHHHHHHHHHHHH! yay! </p>
<p>Oh RD, she is the best, the best&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: myiq2xu</title>
		<link>http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/breaking-americas-glass-color-barrier/#comment-260810</link>
		<dc:creator>myiq2xu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 20:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/?p=11615#comment-260810</guid>
		<description>Constance:

Perhaps you would prefer a society where everyone is androgynous and sexless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Constance:</p>
<p>Perhaps you would prefer a society where everyone is androgynous and sexless.</p>
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