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Sunday: Louisa

Conflucians, I am keeping this post up and will update news from Betty Jean on the condition of her daughters, Louisa and Denise, when it becomes available.  We would like for news of this incident to become viral and spread throughout the internet so please send this link to as many people as you can.

Updates on Louisa:  Last night, I received the following information passed along by Sheri Tag:

Email From BJ:
Just got home after a 36 hours shift but it was worth is – time for a new brain hemorrhage is passed now – and we think the brains on the left side is not in heal mode – Thank You Jesus
Now if we can keep her fever down and infections away for another full week – there is reason to hope that with prayer we might consider a possible partial recovery !
Louisa will never be the same – but 15 hours ago we were having the pull the plug discussions and now we are having a different one – so Please keep the prayers coming!

BJ asked I relay this information:

Swelling has reached its peak and starting to subside and reverse.

Today Louisa grabbed and squeezed BJ’s and the doctors hand.

The breathing tube will be removed and a trache will be put in, with the anticipation of Louisa breathing 40% on her own.

The main concern at this time is infection.

BJ wants to thank everyone again and asks for continued prayers because this week Louisa will really need it.

So, it looks like Louisa is starting to come around.  This is good news.

Friday, we found that Louisa’s attacker, George Hartwig, requested that he be allowed to see his estranged wife Denise before she died.  As some of you know, Denise is suffering from the final stages of ovarian cancer.  Last summer, Hartwig took a hammer to Denise’s skull while she was sleeping in an effort to steal her pain medication.  For this he was sentenced to 3 months in prison and released.  On Monday, he forcibly entered Betty Jean’s house while she was away with the intent of massacreing the entire family.  Denise’s sister Louisa got in the way and George shot her in the face with a shotgun.  Louisa is still in critical condidtion in the hospital and her life, if she lives, will be permanently changed by the effects of the gunshot.

When the judge at the arraignment denied Hartwig’s request to see his ailing wife, he responded:

“That sucks. I didn’t even point a gun at her,”

You can read about it here.

Where does this man get his sociopathic attitude towards women?  Take a look at this compilation of what we have been subjected to during the last year and draw your own conclusions:

Please jump under the fold for more information and interviews with Betty Jean.

Conflucians Say was pre-empted Thursday night so that Sheri Tag could have a private interview with Betty Jean Kling, whose daughter Louisa was viciously shot in the face on Monday night.  Sheri and Betty Jean would like to share this interview with you.  You can find it here on NO WE WON’T on PUMA United Radio.

The War on Women must end and we must make the Obama administration, Democrats and the media accountable to us.

Brad Mays interviewed Betty Jean when she was in Denver and asked her why she was supporting Hillary Clinton.  For Betty Jean, it was all about healthcare, for her daughter who has ovarian cancer and for her son who died of colon cancer eight years ago.  She was crushed when Hillary put on a good face and gave into a humiliating roll call vote at the convention rather than fighting it out.  Honestly, I don’t think there was anything Hillary could have done to change the minds of the superdelegates who were either glamoured, threatened or bought into voting for Obama.  But elections have consequences, especially for real people like Betty Jean and her family who have faced more than their share of healthcare crises.

Here is that interview:


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138 Responses

  1. Bettyjean, Denise and Louisa have been on my mind and in my heart ever since I heard the dreadful news. We should all reflect on the times we have experienced nascent violence in our own lives and hear the warning…All too often, we accept as normal, words and actions that are NOT normal…

    Taking Our Power, Taking Our Lives: Women Under Threat

    http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com/2008/12/19/taking-our-power-taking-our-lives-women-under-threat/

  2. PS …thanks for the link to last night’s program. I always listen to Bettyjean’s show and only a few short weeks ago she was in danger of going “off the air.” Last night I couldn’t listen as I was writing about her current tragedy and what it brought up in me. I trust that many, many others have had the same sort of reflection going on within themselves…

  3. Sending good vibes for recovery…
    W drops a nasty one under the tree – WWOD?

    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/12/19/the-conscience-of-misogynists-ws-gift-under-the-tree/

  4. It is so heartbreaking.

    Listening to the interview now 9and posted it on my tiny lj)

  5. With great empathy and hope for Betty Jean and her family in this terrible tragedy. Yes, to participating in the fight on the War on Women. It is difficult to understand why the Obama forces are trying to invoke the Dark Ages, but the handwriting is more than clearly on the wall!

  6. I’m listening to Betty Jean at that link and I’m bawling.

  7. Anyone else bothered that this flap over the Rev. Warren is focused on Warren’s position on gays and not his anti-choice stance? (I think he is also against birth control.). So Obama gives a place of honor to a man who opposes both gay rights and a woman’s right to choose, but the fact that he has insulted not only his gay supporters but also his female supporters is being ignored. Women have to stop putting up with being ignored and abused.

  8. Yes, Bernie O, I am, too. That interview left me in tears, what a strong woman Betty Jean is. Bless her.

  9. I think it’s essential to include the most important reason for this
    rise in miscogeny and the lack of attention to it which is our
    own fault. We are almost entirely silent.

    I remember this from the Imus incident.
    The girls’ basketball team mentioned sexism several times.
    If it was a boys’ team the racism would never have happened.
    Yet it was entirely ignored by the media. Why? Because the
    only ones making a fuss were Sharpton et al. Where were and
    are the feminist fighters?
    They will ignore us until we step up. We need PR and
    speakers. There are plenty of brilliant PUMAS on this site who
    would be fantastic on Chris Mathews.
    Riverdaughter? Heidi Li? Pat Johnson? Angie?
    Come on, guys, step up. We need to hire a good PR person.
    to arrange this. Any volunteers on this site.
    Whatever happened to the Women’s Movement? It seems to
    be dead.
    It’s up to us to revive it. Support for our positions here is
    important and saved my sanity (almost) this election.
    But we need to get the word out on MSM and the world.

  10. speaktruth: Here’s the problem. We put all of our PR eggs in the Just Say No Deal basket. And when the election ended, they left us high and dry. Diane Mantouvalous and Will Bower hogged all of the media coverage, immediately switched their allegience to McCain after the convention and lost their edge. Now, we have to start from scratch and it is not easy.

  11. RD, I really wanted to say something to the people with whom I had such passionate discussions this year. I was trying to ask if that would be okay now. But now I’m going to rely on that old expression, qui tacet consentire videtur– he who is silent appears to consent… hence the new thread.

  12. I agree that people are asleep at the wheel as far as the women’s movement. We need to stand up in this movement at PUMA and never let down our guard again.

    Yesterday, a female activist in Iraq was beheaded. Gunmen charged into her home and beheaded her on the spot. Not sure any other details will come out about this story. Tiny little blurb at CNN.

  13. If we could organize around global msogyny, the way that people did over south african apartide, maybe we could draw attention to the horrible conditions women and girls are forced to endure accross the planet. I hope Senator Clnton leads the charge in this regard as SOS. She said that she would at a fundraser I went to on Monday nght for her to retire her debt. We can continue to follow her lead!!! I, for one, will contue to keep my ear to the ground on ths one. WE ALL HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!

  14. Sheri, this is probably the same tiny blurb at the LA Times:

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-ml-iraq-kurdish-slaying,1,159070.story

  15. what is happening with betty jean she is in my thughts all this day….I am still heartbroken for her!

  16. What Denise and Louisa are victims of is not domestic violence but domestic terrorism!

    Listening to Betty Jean discribe what happened I cannot even believe it…this goes so beyond the term domestic violence I need a stronger word for womyn who suffer under this kind of abuse…

    Domestic Terrorism to me seems a much better term! And the perpetrators of this violence are terrorists!

  17. no difference between Tim McVey and perpatrators of violence against women!

  18. Heartfelt wishes for recovery and healing to Betty Jean Kling and her daughters.

    I posted much of this on a downstairs thread but it’s relevant here too:

    Sexism and misogyny are considered acceptable by the supposed left, or whatever they’re calling themselves these days. They’ll make some noise, though not enough to accomplish anything, about the homophobia. But not a whisper when it comes to women’s issues and reproductive rights.

    For those who fail to see the connection between violence against women and the Favreau incident, then you should read this article from CNN about Stanley Milgram’s famous shock experiment:

    The idea of blind obedience isn’t as important in these studies as the larger message about the power of the situation, Burger said. It’s also significant that the participant begins with small voltages that increase in small doses over time.

    “It’s that gradual incremental nature that, as we know, is a very powerful way to change attitudes and behaviors,” he said.

    We have lost a lot of ground and we lost it over time and in little bits and by “leaders” and talking heads dismissing objections and telling everyone that sexism and misogyny are acceptable and, heck, even funny. This is why Obama’s silence on Favreau, women’s issues, reproductive rights and LGBT issues is so very harmful. He will set us back even further and considering how much ground we’ve lost already, that’s a very scary place.

    SourceLink

  19. Domestic violence is that dirty little secret, that people tend to pretend-does not happen. Several years ago, it was all the rage to be involved, but the movement has lost a lot of ground. Women need to do something, band together and demand attention.

    I would still be in this field, but when I got to Greenville, I was told that they needed someone in the court system, but they could only pay $11 an hour and only 20 hours a week. A city the size of Greenville can only afford $220 a week?!?!?!?!?!?!? It is an outrage and we are the only ones who can stop it and I don’t mean conflucians, I mean all women.

  20. BernieO
    Excellent point! That’s because most women are still ironing shirts. gay activists have been more outspoken – some during the primaries – enough to make a difference in the numbers.
    The author of the poster TIME is using as cover has second thoughts too

    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/12/19/propaganda-outlasts-b0bot-support/

  21. Isn’t it astonishing that the only ones capable of giving life are treated like recyclable goods. Women give birth, men contribute semen with the xy chromosome. Men can be milked, women cannot be replaced, yet women are treated as commodities. In addition, the majority of women love their children, regardless of sex and will do whatever to ensure their safety and longevity, yet women are treated with contempt ala Favreau and his buddies..
    How bleeding sad is that?

  22. I watched the video last night and it brought me to tears. Betty is one of the good ones, for sure, and I understand her emotions in that video. Most of us felt them and some of us, including me, are still feeling those emotions.

    I agree that we need to take action but we all have to do it in our own ways. I can’t do much down here in Oz but I can fund other people’s efforts and use the power of the pen (via e-mail).

  23. Can anyone tell me about what happened at the New Agenda that had Betty Jean upset?

  24. I know this won’t make it through moderation, and that’s probably a good thing, but it needs to be said.

    My heart breaks for Betty Jean and her family, but that doesn’t change the fact that she doesn’t really know what she’s talking about regarding health insurance and Clinton/Obama.

    Neither Clinton or Obama were proposing universal health insurance; they were both proposing universal health INSURANCE, and Clinton included mandates for adults as well.

    You probably know this, but I think you don’t really grasp what it means. Anyway, since this won’t get published anyway, laterz.

  25. by the way, wtf is wrong with Hartwig? “I didn’t even point a gun at her?” and so he should be allowed to see Denise?

    What a monster.

  26. pdgrey: I’m not sure I have all of the details of the whole brewhaha but I am firmly on Betty Jean’s side on this one. As I understand it, The New Agenda at first asked for Jon Favreau to be fired. Then Carville chastised them and Amy Siskind backed off, saying she thought that doing community service work at a battered women’s shelter would be a better punishment. Betty Jean called her on it and Amy made it sound like Betty Jean’s opinion was irrelevent.
    As I said, I come down on Betty Jean’s side of it. Sending Favreau to a women’s shelter is a stupid idea. I like Amy but I think she really screwed this one up. There’s nothing he can learn from that except that women’s shelters are full of the kind of losers he’s been making fun of all campaign season. I’m not saying they’re losers. I’m saying he thinks they are. The problem is that Jon Favreau has never had to respect a woman for any reason. I prefer that he goes to work for Hillary Clinton at State. Let’s see what kind of speechwriting skills he has when he doesn’t have to write treacle about Hope and change! He’d have to learn to work with and for her to keep his job. And it’s better than being fired. It’s a humiliating demotion where he has to work for an icky girl. But after awhile, he will gain new perspective into the way women work, think, delegate and administrate. I think everyone could benefit.
    But yeah, Amy came off as a bit of an elite to Betty Jean and she really owes her an apology.

  27. Oh, since it was published, maybe I should expound.

    Obama’s push for guarenteed coverage regardless of preexisting conditions, an option to buy into the federal employees plan (a big deal!) and the National Health Insurance Exchange, where individuals could buy private health insurance on an exchange with listing requirements so they know what they’re getting and can’t get screwed by HMOs and insurance companies, is a big deal.

    This will help people who sadly find themselves in situations like Betty Jean.

    You’re welcome folks, because McCain’s plan wouldn’t have. He would have screwed people who didn’t have and couldn’t afford insurance.

  28. Thanks riverdaughter, I kind of got that drift from the interview but I didn’t understand the radio part.

  29. myiq: I understand that Hillary was not offering universal, single payer healthcare but her mandated insurance plan would have been much better than anything Obama could have offered.
    Do you know that in the state of NJ residents pay a hidden tax of $700,000,000 to cover the cost of the uninsured? When the uninsured don’t see a doctor until their conditions are serious, we *all* end up paying for the bills that can’t be paid. Hillary’s plan wouldn’t have exceeded 10% of the typical working poor’s income and if the individual was not covered at the time of service, he/she would have been automatically enrolled.
    I believe in *affordable*, not free, health coverage. When everyone is covered, the overall cost of insurance should come down and those hefty hidden taxes should disappear.

  30. myiq, …… you are very knowledgeable.

  31. myiq: It might be an improvement over McCain’s plan but it is still flawed if it a.) doesn’t include a mandate and b.) doesn’t make it easier for young women to buy insurance. I’m betting that being female doesn’t technically qualify as a pre-existing condition but the fact is that a policy for a woman in her twenties is astronomically more expensive than that for a man and there is a lot less coverage. How do I know this? I couldn’t have afforded a policy for my own daughter, the chef, The prices were ridiculous, the co-pays were high and the coverage stingy. She ended up working for a hotel chain with great benefits but lousy pay. She just got a sous chef postion at an independent restaurant in a state that mandates coverage for all employees. It’s not a great policy but I’m guessing it costs less than covering all of the uninsured’s trips to the emergency room.
    So, now that we know what Obama thinks of women, what are the chances that he’s going to make it more affordable for them?
    Didn’t think so.

  32. RD, thanks for responding.

    There are a couple issues here. On the one hand, the debate over mandates/no mandates in the primary was purely a political one. In the end, congress (Max Baucus, Teccy K, etc) will write the plan, and so the mandate/no mandate will be driven by capital hill politics, not really by what Obama campaigned on.

    Furthermore, I invite you to read this interview between cutler and eskew back before the primary about this very issue.

    http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2008/02/richard-eskow-t.html

    You’re totally correct that without mandates, costs are higher because lower risk people don’t buy into the pool as much, as Paul Krugman repeatedly pointed out, to his credit.

    However, the politics of mandates are lousy. They are very easy to demagogue against, as we saw McCain try to do with Obama’s mandate for parents to buy their kids insurance.

    The clever point that Cutler makes in that piece is that by not requiring mandates in the first bill, you flip the politics. Pass the reforms they both agreed on (a very good start), and look at it two years later. If the lack of mandates is really a serious problem, it would be much easier to demagogue against the free riders to pass the mandates than it would have been the first time around. It’s ultimately a political point, but let’s not be naive, politics are the only thing that ultimately matters towards actually passing healthcare reform and saving lives.

  33. Shouldn’t this video be enough for all the sites to band together and form a third party? We need to start with a clean slate and tell the democrats and republicans to go to hell. They do not care about the people and will sell their soul at the drop of the hat. The people have no future with the parties we have now. They are all corrupt. With the parties we have now what do we have to look forward to…another Kennedy?

  34. RD, myiq2xu usually moderates my comments before they appear, so I’ll change my handle to Obot3000, just to less antagonistic, if you’ll allow me to keep commenting.

  35. myiq1/2u: I just realized you are not a regular. Your argument is very weak. If Barack Obama can’t pass a mandated healthcare plan when he has BOTH houses of Congress on his side and an almost filibuster proof majority, then what the fuck did you bother to elect him to do?
    I’m sorry, but you really need to find a new blog to hang out in.

  36. LATEST E-MAIL FROM OBAMA
    What is concerning to me is that 10% want to run for elected office. They will probably be urge to become committeeman – a very powerful position with no experience required

    Here is the email:

    You helped build the most powerful and effective grassroots movement in America.
    Now, you’re helping to define how this movement will support President-elect Obama’s agenda and continue to bring the change we need.
    The more voices that are part of this process, the better the results will be.
    And so far, the response has been remarkable — 550,000 people completed the online supporter survey. And this past weekend, supporters organized more than 4,000 Change is Coming house meetings in 2,000 cities across all 50 states.
    Take an inside look at a house meeting in Virginia. Watch the video, see photos from meetings all across the country, and share your feedback.

    http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/saying

    Supporters like you are deciding how this movement will go forward. And your dedication is incredible.
    House meetings were held in 2,000 cities. In Florida there were 302 events across the state. In Pennsylvania there were 165, and Ohio had 160.
    From these meetings, survey responses, and thousands of conversations on My.BarackObama and email, your ideas about the future of this organization are taking shape.
    Here are a few things you shared in the survey:
    House meetings were the primary way supporters got involved in the campaign
    People are excited to volunteer around a number of top issues, including education, the environment, health care, poverty, and the economy
    86 percent of respondents feel it’s important to help Barack’s administration pass legislation through grassroots support
    68 percent feel it’s important to help elect state and local candidates who share the same vision for our country
    And a staggering 10 percent of respondents indicated that they would be interested in running for elected office
    This feedback is essential to our next steps, because this movement is fueled by your ideas and your passion.
    Watch the house meetings video and get involved by taking the survey or hosting a meeting of your own:

    http://my.barackobama.com/meetingvideo

    Between now and Barack’s inauguration, we’ll continue to collect your ideas and feedback.
    After the inauguration, we should be able to announce a clear plan for the future of this movement — a plan determined by you.
    Thanks for being a part of this journey to bring about change in the years to come,
    David
    David Plouffe
    Campaign Manager
    Obama for America

  37. Actually, myiq1/2u, please respect the nature of the post you are commenting in. This isn’t a healthcare post. It is a sexism and misogyny post, which your president has nonchalantly chosen to ignore.
    We plan to make his term very unpleasant for the next four years until he holds his frat boy droogs, media lackeys and evangelical preachers accountable for systemic sexism that leads to violence against women.
    So, stick to the subject or we’ll drop a house on you.

  38. I keep seeing all the references to the Fed Health Plans, FEHB. Fed employees have the govt as their employer pick up the biggest portion of the premiums. If you separate from Fed service before retirement you have the option to continue insurance for 18 months but you pick up the entire cost yourself plus a 3% admin fee. It’s not cheap and I don’t see anyway the govt will pick up that share for everyone who wants to join it.

    Here’s a link to the premium rates:

    http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/rates/index.asp

  39. RD, didn’t want to mix topics in a reply.

    I’m so sorry for the troubles Betty Jean is going through and I cannot believe that sick son-of-a-bitch wanted to see his wife! Incredible!!

  40. atypical: Sounds very much like the proposal I drafted for the PUMAs and friends after the convention. They weren’t ready for it then but they are now..

  41. Obot3000: Please stick to the topic at hand or I will suspend your priveleges.
    Thanks,
    The Proprietress

  42. This isn’t a healthcare post. It is a sexism and misogyny post, which your president has nonchalantly chosen to ignore.

    Sorry, it started because the video with Betty Jean was about health care and why she wanted Hillary to keep fighting for it. I was just pointing out the obvious.

    Regarding sexism and misogyny, these are serious problems and I wish you well fighting them. You’re probably not interested in my 2 cents regarding your methods, so I’ll keep them to myself.

  43. Fredster — It is truly a sad day

  44. S.O.D. I’ll respect RD’s request of staying on topic and maybe we can get a discussion on this later tonight.

  45. Obots don’t want to discuss misogyny or sexism. They KNOW it was one of the most potent of the tools they used to get Barack elected.

  46. Obot3000: Yes, keep them to yourself. The minute I start taking advice from an Obot, you will know that I have been replaced by a pod person. I saw first hand the underhanded techniques that the Obama campaign used on unsuspecting, stupid liberals. Eventually, everyone wakes up. Oh, and BTW, there aren’t that many of you out there. You’re just very noisy. Most of the people I know who voted for Obama didn’t like him but liked Republicans less. And most of them didn’t really believe that Palin was an idiot. You guys are skating on thin ice. When the economy starts to tank, Obama better have a really good plan that involves making the Wall Street Gang very uncomfortable or your honeymoon is going to be very short with the voters. OTOH, if he tries to take on the well connected, the media is going to savage him. For a man without principles, he deserves whatever is coming to him.
    You bought him. You own him. He’s yours.
    Now, go away.

  47. Domestic Terrorism to me seems a much better term! And the perpetrators of this violence are terrorists!

    I also like the term, War on Women. I think it is more powerful.

  48. Most of the people I know who voted for Obama didn’t like him but liked Republicans less.

    Well nobody I know voted for Nixon!

    When the economy starts to tank,

    Starts?! Don’t you know Obama caused the economy to tank just to get elected?

    Now, go away.

    I don’t comment here very much, and the couple times I did they were censored, but I have to say, I’m drawn here. I don’t know any PUMAs in real life, and I genuinely wonder what you guys are thinking (and to be honest, what’s wrong with you) sometimes. I think that we can have civil discussions, and I can appreciate that you’re not always in the mood for a debate.

    I don’t think we have to be mean to each other. I’m not trying to “woo” your vote, I’m genuinely curious. I’ll keep lurking and pop in when I’m moved, and I hope you won’t feel offended by my curiousity. In case you were wondering, yes, I am often similarly fascinated by some Republicans.

  49. Obot3000 – out of respect for Betty Jean, I won’t reply in this thread but you are welcome in the Catarina thread. I would like to answer your question-

    “I genuinely wonder what you guys are thinking (and to be honest, what’s wrong with you) sometimes.”

  50. hello, I am so discussed with the rampant violence against women the more I look at the subject the more I see and learn about this the more awful it is I thought I new wat this “Terrorism in the Home” is the worse I feel…I have actually gotten sick to my stomach!

    I am so sorry women have to put up with this this the word is so hard to find!

    It is simply unbelievable!

  51. “…I am often similarly fascinated by some Republicans.”

    Sounds as if Obot thinks we are animals at the zoo.

    You don’t get out much if you haven’t met any PUMAs. Either that or you have only surrounded yourself with like-minded individuals this year. If you really want to find some PUMAs, talk to women and GENUINELY ask them how they felt about Obama compared to Hillary. You’ll find us there, if you dare to look.

  52. Thanks Downticket I like your term “War on Women” too. I to think it is much more powerfull….

    and with the nomber of women who are victims of “Terrorism at Home” perpetarted by “Spousal Terrorist” so large every year where is a monument to those brave women who have paid the price of their sex?

    I mean the casualties are greater than Vietnam surely….these women deserved to be recognized for the sacrifice they have made…if not for that they should be memorialized because society owes them an apology!

    President Hillary Clinton would have been a living memorial to those who did not live to see the day when women were treated with respect . When calleng some one a sexist name was nolonger OK and where beating or killing a woman is simply un acceptable.

    STOP THE WAR ON WOMAN! dot.Period. the End!

  53. A pledge for men who want to STOP THE WAR ON WOMEN:

    I pledge to throw off my mantle of non violence if I see a woman being a harassed I will not be silent. Actions speak volumes when words are no longer enough.

    I pledge if I see sexism I will not be silent. It is no longer acceptable.

    I pledge if I see anyone tell a young women she can’t because of her sex or that’s for Boys or Men I will not be silent. No more will I allow misogyny to be internalized and passed on to the next generation of women.

    I pledge if I see any young man or boy getting off the hook for perpetrating sexism or misogynistic behavior I will call them on it. No more will I allow misogyny to be externalized and passed on to the next generation of men.

    I will do everything to work toward equality for women everywhere. No one is free until everyone is free!

    No more is harassment of women acceptable in any way shape or form.

    This started with a man it end with a men it ends with me so help me (God/Goddess/Creator)

  54. Obot3000–

    If you really want to know why Obama’s health care plan (as proposed by Cutler) stinks, there was an excellent primer on this very blog that covered this issue many moons ago.

    Link.

    Also, we all know that the difference between Hillary’s and Obama’s plan boiled down to the issue of of mandates on adults, and that’s what Betty Jean is referring to in the video–her children were struck down with debilitating illnesses while still young adults, and many young adults (despite the b.s. Obama spews on the subject) don’t imagine themselves being stricken with cancer or some other catastrophic illness, and thus would forgo paying for insurance if given the option. Obama never spelled out what would happen to the inunsured in such a situation. Would they, like Betty Jean’s chidren, remain uncovered? Who would ultimately pay the costs, if not the individual?

    You acknowledge that Obama’s plan is much more expensive than Hillary’s because of healthy people opting out of risk pool. In fact, Price Waterhouse Cooper’s analysis showed that Obama’s health care plan would likely cost taxpayers upwards of $1 trillion over the course of a decade

    Link.

    Where the hell are we supposed to get this kind of money during the coming hard times?

    Finally, you say that Obama’s decision to forgo mandates on adults was a political one, but no worries–if his plan doesn’t work, we can simply return to the mandates issue later. But then why did he run those “Harry and Louise” ads, allowing any attempt to impose mandates in the future to be attacked using the candidate’s own words and images? Do you honestly think that the Republicans (and their conservative Democrat allies) are going to remain on their backs forever?

    There’s a reason why Obama raked in far more money from the health insurance industry than Hillary did, just as there’s a reason why Obama hired Jim Cooper–the conservative Democratic congressman singularly most responsible for derailing Hillary’s attempt at health care reform in 1993 and an arch defender of the health care insurance lobby’s position on health care reform–to be a spokesperson for his health care reform plan. And that reason is, as John Kerry so eloquently put it, universal health care in the next congress is a nonstarter.

    I wish Senator Baucus all the luck in the world, but we’re not going to get any meaningful health-care reform in this country without a president who gives a damn and is willing to fight for universal coverage. And Obama has shown no indication that he’s willing to put up such a fight. In fact, that’s anathema to his entire proposed style of leadership.

  55. Fuzzy, just a point of clarification, I don’t think the term sacrifice is appropriate in this context. Victims of spousal abuse/domestic violence aren’t sacrificing, they are being victimized and abused. Sacrifice implies knowing consent, and spousal abuse victims aren’t fighting for a cause; they’re fighting for their lives.

    I have friends that work for NARAL (yes, donations took a BIG hit when they endorsed Obama) and they del with a lot of victims of domestic violence. One of the difficult things is convincing some women that they don’t deserve the abuse, or that it isn’t their fault. The tendency to blame themselves for their boyfriends/husbands abuse is heartbreaking, and a big problem. I think that fetishizing victimhood isn’t helpful in that regard. Don’t tell women being abused that they are sacrificing themselves in a war, tell them to get away from their abuser and tell the police.

  56. I apologize for feeding the troll in my previous comment, but I didn’t want Obot 3000’s attacks on Betty Jean’s understanding of the health care differences between Hillary and Obama to go unchallenged. I assume that my comment was deleted becasue it was deemed OT but I thought he deserved a reply.

    I am deeply saddened by the news of Betty Jean’s multiple tragedies. I had the great joy of meeting her on election night. It takes a person of extraordinary strength to turn grief into activism–she reminds me of Cindy Sheehan, and I hope that she is able to raise consciousness beyond our small circle to the ugly reality of domestic violence in this country. My heart goes out to her–I’m glad that she knows how deeply she is loved by so many.

  57. RD, inky’s response is exactly why I wrote that most who know the difference was mandates don’t actually understand what that entails.

    Also, my totally on topic comment was disappeared, but it’s a standard you only apply to Obots.

    Nice little nuthouse you have here!

  58. Would you care to clarify, Senor Obot, about my lack of understanding?

  59. Admittedly I have not had the most rigorous standards about staying on topic, but out of respect for Betty Jean and her daughters, we must.

    I have been scouring the board looking for updates about Betty Jean and Louisa, and in a few minutes will be able to pray for her during a Tridentine Mass.

    On the policy issue, I continue to plead for the position that you have to hang these guys after due process (the ideal), or at least lock them up.

    Some men cannot be dealt with any other way. If they’re let out, even with all the trappings of the Court’s supervision, they will just go and hurt somebody again. Yesterday’s dreadful events of yesterday have done nothing to undermine this opinion and everything to confirm it.

    Conflucians, you have my love and prayers but tonight I’ll be thinking of Betty Jean and her daughters. Louisa, corpus Domini nostri Iesu Christi custodiat animam tuam in vitam aeternam, amen.

  60. I am sending healing and comfort to Betty Jean and Louisa , and for all of us who have been battered and abused in this campaign , and this society .
    We women know we are the the prey , we have womens safety and rape prevention classes to prove it . If a dead body is discovered on the side of the road or a shallow grave somewhere .. anywhere USA ; the likelihood it will be a woman far outweighs the possibilty that it would be a man. Women are the targets and victims of public and private domestic violence , and sexual objectification in crime and for entertainment .
    I do not know what it will l take to change that , but a woman as president, or even vice president , would have been a huge leap for womankind , which is why it did not happen .
    The war on women is a good phrase, because it is all inclusive . I am tired of myself and my daughter and all my sisters being collateral damage of culturally inherent t misogyny . It has to stop ,

  61. Obot3000-Pedal it to yad vashem-6 million were sacrificed in the ovens of Aushowitz Belzen Dachau Manhausen -for the nazi war on the home front for R@cial Purity. Are you saying that the “victims” of the gas were consenting to walking into the “showers” because they did not resist?

    I am sure the Anti defamation League would love to hear you say that…mmmm…maybe you are anti-$emite?

    Stuff it JackA$$!

    Aztecs Sacrificed the defeated to the Sun God are you saying they consented to have their hearts ripped out alive and and set on fire in front of their own eyes?

  62. sorry Obot3000 I did not mean to compare you to a JackA$$…they are useful beasts of burden….

    You are a heartless piece of shit….

    unwilling victims who were sacraficed against their will are memorialized all over the world.

  63. “That sucks. I didn’t even point a gun at her,” Hartwig said, referring to his wife, Denise Richardson, who is dying of ovarian cancer.

    Maybe someone can remind this fool about the hammer he hit her with? Didn’t he think it sucked to be hit with a hammer? Poor Betty Jean. It is really not fair. She can’t loose another child. She already lost her son. Her one daughter is dieing and now Louisa. It is not fair. How could the judge have let this man free after three months for having hit a dieing woman with a hammer? it doesn’t make any sense :evil:

  64. now you have driven me off topic sorry RD I am am very upset about Betty Jeans Daughters….My mother is also praying for them I believe she will say a rosary for them and she doesnt know anything about them accept they are children of the Creator and they deserve to live in peace and in the creators devine light.

  65. I hope Obot has been banished….he doesnt care about this thread all he cares about is converting us to Obamaism….

    I cannot believe the evil that is done to women and the judges let the guilty off scott free!

  66. fuzzybeargville, on December 19th, 2008 at 6:30 pm

    Blue Lyon gets the credit for the term. It is the perfect term because no matter where you go, women are treated like second class citizens. The War on Women is taking place in every country on this earth.

  67. The phrase battered wife is not even 40 years old . Police had to be “educated” and still do regarding domestive violence , and how to deal with it .This all stems from the concept of woman as .property , which still exists conceptually and subliminally and in some states as actual laws on the books .
    Women are still being told by some preachers and priests that when they married ; they made their bed and they should lie in it , I guess that means even if it is bloody from a beating they took from their “owner/ husband “

  68. Downticket-thanks for the correction. What did you think about Obot3000 castigating me for using the term sacrificed?

    If this is truely a war on women….and those murdered are casualties of this hateful and unwarranted/unwanted war, is it wrong for me to say these unwilling victims were sacrificed?

    Or was my comment really that offensive I am sorry if it was….

  69. Women and children are routinely sacrificed as collateral damage in wars Fuzzy… sacrifice does always imply willingness on the part of the victim .

  70. and ps
    this may sound harsh , but I really dont give a flying fuck what anyone who voted for bo thinks, feels or demands as far as getting their money back . They cost us more than they will ever know , and we have no hope of getting it back ..
    They imposed this uncaring misogynistic rat bastard on us , and until they figure out what the real deal is with this arrogant narcissist is , and usually it is because they finally get thrown under the wheels of the bus , I really do not care what any of them say .
    I hope Gov Blago sings like a canary and involves bo in a scandal he cant preach his way out of … maybe that is why he picked Warren he wants all those best selling book prayers on his side .

  71. Swanspirit –

    Thats what I thought -and meant…

    Obot3000-as Glenda the good witch said “be gone before some else drops a House on You and your little precious too!

  72. oops i meant to say does NOT always imply willinglness ..and someday I will learn to type too !!

  73. how are you tonight I hope Betty Jean and Louisa are ok It will be a long road for them I am so worried for betty jean and her surviving daughter….

  74. Fuzzy:

    The troll is gone but the stench remains.

    Once in a while we need to preserve some of their comments just to demonstrate why we delete the others.

    If you give them an inch, they crap in it.

  75. dot miss type at YTD it is suicide they ignore everything you type after you miss-speak and become so tunnel visioned its not funny…since none of thwm commented on BO’s appointment of Gates or Salazar I guess the YTD crowd really did support the AUMF of the war in Iraq and theyalso like the raping of public lands…..

    I can understand that they dont like women too….see it was never about the issues it was about stopping Hillary.

    Gosh they sure look like republicans over there now….

  76. I am good , thanks for asking , tired , but good :) Sending long distance healing is a good thing, and powerful , distance healing works there is scientific proof !
    Makes me smile to think all those physicists with their giant atomic machines proving prayer and distance healing work :) I am counting my blessings and my days off .

  77. “That sucks. I didn’t even point a gun at her,” Hartwig said, referring to his wife, Denise Richardson, who is dying of ovarian cancer.

    Downticket — that’s exactly what I thought when I read that animal’s words — no, you didn’t point a gun at her but you hit her in the head with a hammer. I also thought you know what really sucks? Laying in a hospital bed after being shot in the face by a psychopath.

    I am so pained for this family & my heart goes out to them. Especially poor, poor Denise — I know she is probably feeling so guilty because she “brought” this guy into her family’s lives — but do not go there Denise — you had no way to know — the thing about psychopaths is they fool everybody.

  78. thanks Myiq2xu-

    I worry sometimes there may be a grain of truth in their negative comments of me

    but fuzzy gets reassurance from you….

    their was one comment at YTD showing disbelief in Obamas choice of the “Purpose Driven A$$Hat” Rev Rick Warren….one of them is “Hoping” it is not true….

    well sweeties Obama doesnt just think Women are second class american’s he feels that way about the LGBT community also!

  79. RD, inky’s response is exactly why I wrote that most who know the difference was mandates don’t actually understand what that entails.

    I would love to see Obot3000 debate HRC on the intricacies of health care mandates since he/she fancies himself/herself such an exceptional expert. What part of $1 trillion more expensive didn’t you understand? I have an old friend who has worked in the insurance industry for 25 years. Her husband is now the President of United Health Care. She is conservative and not a fan of HRC’s, but even she said to me: “She is absolutely right about mandates. It will not work otherwise.”

  80. fuzzy — puh-leaz! there isn’t a grain of truth in the entire litter box! Don’t you dare start believing a thing those dumbasses say about you.

  81. Hey angie-

    Poor Bety Jean Denise and Louisa-Mom is going to pray really hard for them and my mom has an in with the Guy/Gal upstairs….I am glad she is praying for Betty Jena and her daughters If I know my mom the rosary beads are being used right now…

    Blessed Creator Father-Mother God/dess

    Be the strength for Betty Jean and her family send you most powerful angels down to bring our healing thoughts to them.

    Tonight we need you to be the conduit that sends and magnifies our love and healing. Like a fine glass focus these prayers on Dear Louisa and Deniese.

    With Arms extended and wings unfurled let Thy Angels bid thy healing work through our prayers.

    In Humility because we are so unworthy Creator please bring the light to our dear sisters who have sufferred so.

    That once again they shall no the light of day and joy of your Creation.

    Amen

  82. sorry it was so short it is heard to type and hold back the tears….

  83. Hi guys,

    I just put up a new post on violence against women.

  84. Hey everyone – Fuzzy you are so gentle and sweet, thanks for your beautiful prayers.

    I just cannot believe what is happening – it just gets worse and worse. This guy is truly an animal, as Angie said. He is totally focused on himself and his imagined grievances. I mean, if he had his way, his wife would have been dead months ago, and he’s complaining because he can’t see her after he shot her sister?

    Oh my G-d, this man is a disgusting piece of crap.

  85. beautiful prayer Fuzzy hugs

  86. boston where is the post?

  87. I have had so little time to spend here lately. I miss reading the comments. You are all so wonderful to read.

    Can someone tell me what is YTD ? I have seen fuzzy lately mentioning it. But I must have been AWOL when it first came up. Thanks.

  88. Oh, noes! NOW is finally miffed with Obama! They’ll even start… a petition!

    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/12/19/now-theyre-irked/

  89. edgeofforever-say it aint so?

  90. Watch NOW”s toes curl when Obama doesn’t rescind Bush’s order to protect the conscience rights of health care workers.

  91. NOW is so ineffective that they should just fold up and hide under a rock for 4 years until they can live down the embarassment of supporting this guy-

  92. Fuzzy,

    The latest posts are below this one. This post is pinned to the top of the menu so it will get attention. Just refresh and scroll down.

  93. Fuzzy – NOW should be called “Later.”

    As in, “We’ll stand up for womens’ rights later – after we’re done worshiping the Misogynist-in-Chief. Mmmmkay?”

  94. LOL! Madamab, we should run ad that say that. “Now means later.” National Organization for Wimps!

  95. ok sorry thick tonight…

  96. fuzzy ~ what is YTD ?

  97. “Kim Gandy, president of the National Organization of Women, told ABCNews.com that women nationwide had expected a more gender-balanced Cabinet.”
    ***************
    That is truly pathetic

  98. No kidding, SHV. Next they will write a sternly worded letter. OMG, Obama will have to change all his Cabinet appointments!!!

    Will they ever get a f*cking clue? Why, why, WHY did they support him?

    McCain promised 50% women in his cabinet. He had the chutzpah to put a woman on the ticket. And Obama refused to promise gender parity OR put Hillary on the ticket.

    And NOW thought Obama was a feminist?

    Utter fucking stupidity.

  99. SHV, on December 19th, 2008 at 10:21 pm Said:
    “Kim Gandy, president of the National Organization of Women, told ABCNews.com that women nationwide had expected a more gender-balanced Cabinet.”
    ********************************

    color me shocked…

    can’t say we didn’t warn them.

  100. madamab ~ and if they (NOW) had supported McCain and Palin, they would have been called r@cist like the rest of us. Now, NOW has to suffer the consequences of their fear of name-calling.

    The cries of many progressive organizations and writers have begun in earnest lately. I continue to receive the petitions and requests. I just laugh now and watch them sweat. I know it isn’t charitable of me. too bad.

  101. madamab, on December 19th, 2008 at 10:30 pm Said:
    No kidding, SHV. Next they will write a sternly worded letter. OMG, Obama will have to change all his Cabinet appointments
    *************
    Looking back at Cabinet make-up…for the same # of positions, Obama has one less woman than Clinton’s first and Bush’s final # is 4 vs Obama 3 for the same positions. Pathetic…In re-reading Kim Gandy’s response, it is so weak and groveling, why would anyone pay any attention to her or to NOW…Oh..big surprise..they didn’t.

  102. I’m just now uploading the first official trailer to my film The Audacity Of Democracy. It should be viewable within an hour or two. Hope you all like it.

  103. ((((((((Betty Jean))))))))
    Stay strong.
    Don’t let the bastards get you down.
    Stay calm. Your daughters need you now.
    I hope you have lots of support.

  104. Terrorism against women — I agree that’s what has been happening — lack of respect for women is one of the core reasons.

    I’ve seen this in high school — girls come to school after being beaten by their boyfriends — the boys should be in jail.

    Somewhere there are statistics on the increase in violence during major downturns in the economy — some males tend to wage war on women — BECAUSE THEY CAN.

    In my opinion the only way this war on women can be stopped is by a unified effort by a huge number of people and groups.

    The old passe feminist groups have dug themselves a hole — they seem to have turned into a one issue political action group — Abortion.

    The extreme stupidity of the slug beast demanding to be allowed to have contact with his ex-wife is beyond believe. But then again this is typical for males who believe that they OWN women.

    Does anyone believe that 0bama even cares about violence against women? Did he try to fund any programs to stop or lessen the violence (murders) in Chicago? By looking at his past performance — we know damned well that we are going to have to get a hell of a lot louder and demanding of RESPECT.

    I guess what this means is find our voice — and make a noise.

    Right now women’s human rights have gone back 40 years or more.

    This is so discouraging — the task ahead is massive. It means major EDUCATION reform — it means public service announcements and it means REAL punishment for the crimes of violence against women.

    I feel like I’m a kid again watching the military men coming home from deployment and beating there wives. “Why aren’t they being stopped from beating their wives?” I would ask — my questions were ignored. I was a kid and I knew that this sort of violence was wrong. It was common sense.

    Not much has changed — except that in some ways it is worse — I never saw — Bros before Ho — t-shirts or the C**t t-shirts — or the popular songs that encourage violence and poor treatment of women. This approval of putting women in a sub-human class is worse than when I was a kid.

    As people get used to constant disrespect for women’s human rights — they will become more tolerant of even MORE disrespect.

    Where will it stop — When will it stop?

  105. Did anyone see Chris Mathews tonight?

    Chris was interviewing Kerry Kennedy (for the hundredth time,
    it seems), selling Caroline. Chris asked Kerry about Caroline’s
    position on abortion.

    Kerry answered that she DIDN’T KNOW.
    Amazingly, Chris jumped on her, saying “I can’t believe that
    in all these years you two never discussed this. He really
    pushed this. Kerry wrote a book about being Catholic. She
    gave a very ambivalent answer on her own position.

    The best part was when Joan Walsh of Salon came on (prob-
    ably to push Caroline, too.)
    But instead she said she was truly speechless. I guess at
    the idea that Caroline seems to have no clear position on
    abortion. Or even is against it.
    I wonder how long it will take those Palin hating Obots
    to become aware they’ve been punked yet again.
    Also, Kerry said Caroline should be Senator because
    she is a woman. I was afraid they”d use that to push her.
    Sorry, guys. We want a woman. “Just not that woman.”
    Sound familiar, Obots.

  106. “Amazingly, Chris jumped on her, saying “I can’t believe that
    in all these years you two never discussed this. He really
    pushed this. Kerry wrote a book about being Catholic. She
    gave a very ambivalent answer on her own position.”
    ************
    IMO, a person can’t be a Roman Catholic and be pro-choice. Abortion is not a debatable position in Roman Catholic theology. I have no respect for a person who “picks and chooses” dogma within their religion. If they truly believe in reproductive choice, they should change religions. The worst example of this is Ms. Keenan, the President of NARAL, who believes the Church’s position that abortion is a mortal sin. WTF,

  107. Dear Betty Jean,

    You are in my prayers. I pray that your daughters recover and that you find peace in your life. I watched your video today and the power of your pain and massage brought me to tears. You are so brave and have taken such hard hits in your life that it is amazing to me that you can still find hope is this horrible viscious women hating world. Your strength in the face of such adversity is inspirational and admirable. You are wonderful and there are thousands of people out here, who have never met you or your daughters, like myself, who are pulling for you and them. God Speed!!!

  108. Riverdaughter –

    Here’s a link to the trailer. The movie itself will be ready by the second week of January.

    Brad

  109. speaktruth
    I am speechless!
    As to the Louisa events, I am reminded of the Marc Fuhrman story in the “Trial of the Century”. Everyone called Fuhrman a racist – and he was, but not toward OJ. Because everyone chose to forget a prior 9.11 call of Nicole when Fuhrman was very protective of OJ and dismissive of Nicole, demonstrating – years before this election – that misogyny trumps racism every time.
    Also, I discovered a curious scientific fact: the same percentage on both political aisles are complete idiots

    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/12/20/the-craven-eleven/

  110. RD,

    Thank you for leaving this post at the top of the page. This event is symbolic of the threat of gender violence that women (and GLBT’s as well) in our society live with every day.

  111. edgeoforever, did you check your email? I mean, the email you use to post to this blog? If you haven’t, check it now.

  112. is this for real? I am shocked and at first I thought this was a joke of some sort.
    Dear God please help these people.

    Just watch Iron Jawed Angels this morning and now I hear this. What the hell are men so scared of?

  113. along with making public awareness a priority and teaching the young to respect others what other things can be done to make this so unexceptable that no excuses are tolerated?
    Making it a hate crime does not seem to be on the agenda for any administration. What can we do to make happen?

    WOMEN,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  114. There are 114 comments here. I would like all of you to contact Nancy Grace as I just did. Give her this page’s link — give her the link to the radio show. Tell her four women a day killed in the US, and one child a day THAT WE KNOW ABOUT. Ask Nancy Grace to have both Riverdaughter and Betty Jean on her show for one whole hour. Tell her this articulate woman can put this gender based violence in a political perspective and that is what her show needs.

    http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?81

    If 114 people write Grace, she WILL respond. Also write Greta and any other news show people you trust. Right or left it does not matter. The US facing this gender based violence is all that matters.

    Also; the founder of SAGE died on the eve of the passage of the Wilberforce anti trafficking act. As we acknowledge our heros, remember Norma Hotaling.

  115. badtothebone: It is very real. Betty Jean is living through a trial by fire. She deserves better than this. Her daughters deserve to be left alone. We all deserve a lot better treatment and equality.

  116. Riverdaughter, amen to that sentiment. I have been thinking for several years that women on the right and women on the left have to unit. We have all the power we need to change the world if only we would use it. There is no other reason that women are only 16 percent of the congress and senate and can not get in to the whitehouse except our own fear of using our power to vote other women in to office. Instead we are told to wait our turn and be good girls (don’t scare the guys…they might not date you).
    So we have this, a world where being a woman still means you are never safe. We always have to depend on some man or group of men to give us a little bit of what we deserve as human beings. And in exchange we give them the right to beat us and kill us.

  117. [...] the media is working overtime to shove Princess Kennedy down our throats a few glitches are bound to develop Chris was interviewing Kerry Kennedy (for the hundredth time, it seems), selling Caroline. Chris [...]

  118. It’s interesting in the video above there are several instances of Michelle Obama on the receiving end of the hate, but also her making the “can’t take care of your own house” comment about Hillary.

  119. Sending good thoughts for the entire family…
    NYS is getting stuck with worse than W

    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/12/20/princess-caroline-no-opinions-no-comment/

  120. I won’t comment on anything other than Betty Jean and her family in this thread. My prayers are with her and her family AND I am in total agreement with her on health care.

  121. Here’s something weird I came across on YouTube. I know what the joke here is supposed to be – I’m sure that all of you will as well when you watch it. But the component of anger, even hatred at the end of the clip is beyond my comprehension. This is the most insidious kind of anti-woman message – where the misogyny is sublimated.

  122. Reality check on prayer as intervention in medical conditions — the one “study” that alleged it helped was done very sloppily. Another study done appropriately had results showing the prayed-for patients actually fared a bit worse than those not prayed for. Alas, the media didn’t spread the news as much on that later study.

    None of which contradicts that prayer can be a meaningful ritual and helpful coping behavior for some.

    My thoughts go out to all those who’ve suffered from “domestic” terrorism. Women, stay strong.

  123. Pumain Seattle

    Sometimes God just chooses to answer prayers differently then we expect. Personally, I think those studies are rather ridiculous. How do you study the part of an equation you can not possibly comprehend?

    Anyway when I pray I always ask for Him to do what He feels is in the best interest of all parties. It’d be pretty hard for any study to say that prayer was or was not answered.

  124. PumainSeattle: Betty Jean is asking us to pray and i think it gives her strength and comfort to know that we are thinking of her and Louisa. That is the value of prayer, meditation, positive thoughts. It would be awful for Betty Jean to go through this alone.

  125. Betty Jean, loving mother, and her beautiful daughters, Louisa and Denise, are in my heart.

    I spent time with my best friend today, I told her about this heartbreaking situation. I am sending her the link, and she will share it with others.

    The two of us had a deeply spiritual discussion, about the paths we all follow and how and where we end up.

    Both of us wish we could be with Betty Jean to hug her and, most importantly, to listen to her.

    :heart:

  126. If Louisa’s GCS (Glascow Coma Scalke) is 4/15, that is an ominous finding. My heart and thoughts go to Betty jean.

  127. scalke=scale. sorry.

  128. chatblu: What does it mean for those of us not in the medical profession? Brain stem plus what?

  129. Chatblu: I did a quick lookup on the GCS. If what I read is correct, Louisa’s prognosis is very grim indeed even under the most optimistic of circumstances. Is that how you interpret it? The word that stood out to me was “decerebration”. That has got to be a devastating injury. Much worse than I thought.

  130. riverdaughter, on December 20th, 2008 at 7:45 pm Said:
    That has got to be a devastating injury. Much worse than I thought.
    *************
    From the little information available that I have seen, she has had a devastating injury. “The word that stood out to me was “decerebration”.”
    Decerebrate posture is an involuntary response to pain where, among other things, the arms are extended at the elbows. This is an indication of severe brain stem injury.

  131. SHV: How does a person recover from “decerebration”? I read that some children with no evidence of lesion are able to recover. Does that happen with kids pulled out of a pool?
    But what about an older person with a traumatic brain injury, lesions and ligation? Is recovery possible?

  132. riverdaughter, on December 20th, 2008 at 8:24 pm Said:

    SHV: How does a person recover from “decerebration”?
    ***********
    Not my area of expertise…but the “decerebrate posture” is a sign of injury to the lowest part of the brain that connects to the spinal cord. If the brain stem injury is caused by pressure from brain swelling it can, sometimes, be reversed by reducing the swelling. In a situation where there is massive destruction of the brain, it is probably an indication of progression of the brain damage.

  133. This is not off-topic. 51 Percent has now been put up on Yahoo Buzz and Digg. The quicker 51 Percent is up and running and faster we spread the word about it, the sooner we begin to discuss the connection between violence done to women qua women, the better. This is of no medical help to Louisa, sadly, but we have to start acting quickly to make sure that the concatenation of circumstances that lead to what happened to Louisa do not arise again and again.

    If you have a moment please see

    http://digg.com/world_news/The_51_Organization_Formed_to_Eliminate_Modern_Misogyny

    http://buzz.yahoo.com/article/1:forbes:a429a1eab91f415c85b1475371635f9f

    and

    http://tdg.typepad.com/heidi_lis_potpourri/2008/12/51-percent-update-direct-online-donation-available-website-launch-target-date-set-more.html

    Thank you.

  134. This is not off-topic. 51 Percent has now been put up on Yahoo Buzz and Digg. The quicker 51 Percent is up and running and faster we spread the word about it, the sooner we begin to discuss the connection between violence done to women qua women, the better. This is of no medical help to Louisa, sadly, but we have to start acting quickly to make sure that the concatenation of circumstances that lead to what happened to Louisa do not arise again and again.

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