Friday: Things that really piss us off

Allan Katx, Proud RBC Committee Member

Allan Katz, Proud RBC Committee Member

So, David Plouffe went to Harvard the other day to muse hypothetically about what might have happened if Florida had actually, um, *counted* back in February:

“In fact, we might not have been the nominee,” Mr. Plouffe said at a forum sponsored by the Kennedy School of Government.

Mr. Plouffe said that he was surprised – and relieved – when the Clinton campaign bowed to pressure from early primary states, including Iowa and New Hampshire, and agreed not to campaign in Florida after the state defied the Democratic National Committee and scheduled its primary before Feb. 3. That spared the Obama campaign the burden of running in a state where all sides agreed Mrs. Clinton was very strong.

“The Florida primary was always of concern to us,” Mr. Plouffe said. “When they agreed to do it in the Clinton campaign, I was really surprised.”

(The vote was held, and Mrs. Clinton won, but the Democratic National Committee said that delegates won there would not count in determining the outcome of the race.)

The way it turned out, Mr. Obama crushed Mrs. Clinton in South Carolina on Jan. 26 and rolled into Super Tuesday on Feb. 5, when there were more than 20 states holding contests. Florida would have taken place on Feb. 29, which Mr. Plouffe argued could have made everyone forget South Carolina.

“If we hadn’t had that moment of velocity coming out of South Carolina — particularly after losing New Hampshire – I don’t know if we could have survived Feb. 5,” he said.

Well, wasn’t that nice.  They were relieved that Clinton had stuck to her agreement because that meant Obama didn’t have to spend money and time in a state he knew he couldn’t win at the same time they could work with Obama’s enablers in the DNC to fuck over Floridians, Hillary and the rest of the country’s Hillary voters.

I can just imagine Plouffe, Axelrod, Brazile and Obama himself sniggering and patting themselves on the back for pulling a fast one over on Hillary the sucker and the rest of us.  High fives all around.  I mean, why bother treating your voters with respect when the other guy makes it completely unnecessary?

There are business courses available for people who want to figure out how to get what they want and believe it or not, they never recommend the aproach that Obama took.  Oh, that doesn’t mean that the management types ever take the advice but the pros who teach this stuff make a point that playing the game by cheating and backstabbing is limited short-term thinking.  *Supposedly*, good negotiators operate in good faith and are up front and honest.  Good game players triumph over evil in the end blah-de-blah-de-blah.  So, maybe Hillary’s crew were a bit over confident that they could win in the end.  But I can still remember the night of SuperTuesday when even Karl Rove thought that Obama would have a hard time pulling off a primary win.  Well, SURE, but that’s only because Rove was counting Florida and possibly Michigan.  It was probably only a hearbeat later when Rove realized what a brilliantly devious thing it would be for the media to suppress Floridians and pretend it didn’t count.

Did Hillary have a choice in the matter?  Allan Katz, the Floridian RBC member who screwed us all royally and says he is now proud of it would probably say “no”.  The RBC’s decision of the previous August to strip FL and MI of their votes made the RBC members into minor celebrities.  Whoo-hoo!  15 minutes of fame and all that.  They.  Had. The.  Powwwwwer!!!  What a moment in the sun, a chance to make a solemn, momentous decision on TV, a day that will live in infamy when the petty bureaucrats had a chance to make the 2008 election into a teachable moment about race.

How delighted they must be that they elevated skin color over character so that now we have the specter of four years of Jon Favreau, Rod Blagojevich and the Villagers holding the White House hostage if their cushy status quo is disrupted.  This is the price that the rest of us pay.  The Democratic party has covered itself with dishonor.  Oh, sure, it *won*.  But the consequences of not bargaining in good faith are that now voters sincerely believe that there isn’t a bit of difference between the parties, that all politicians are crooked and that you can’t trust any of them.  Obama won because the Republicans were sooooo baaaad.  But in the future, the Democratic party will have a much harder time making its case.  It has lost the moral high ground.  It ripped the nomination from one of its most deserving, loyalists and gave the finger to the voters.

Mr. Plouffe, we have very long memories.

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157 Responses

  1. I just got an email from ‘Shukoor Ahmed’. He claims that two people told him that I would be a wonderful candidate for jobs in the Obama/Biden administration. I am supposed to send him my resume and he will pass it on to the proper people in the administration. Can I use you all as references?? This is probably how they will get our information, so they can send us all to Gitmo. At least the weather is nice there.

  2. honora: Go for it. We will write great references, like, “You will be lucky to get Honora to work for you.” ;-)

  3. In the end he only “won” by 17 delegates. Minus the 4 stolen from Hillary it is down to 13. Now if you remove the Michigan delegates he didn’t earn then Obama never won anything. Hillary was too trusting.

  4. The weather in Gitmo is little different from Ft Lauderdale, so I see no point in relocating. Reported mine as spam. Since I live in Florida, I’m only going to need half a job, anyhow.

  5. what happenned to my little avatar, Olive? I;ve become very fond of her and she has been replaced by a quilt square.

  6. Honora, I’ll be in the running for that job, too, since Shukoor sent me the very same letter. I wonder whose list he has?

  7. All things are possible, Plouffe told the truth.

  8. I just noticed that I have a new avatar too. I prefer this one

  9. There is an old proverb that sums up the 2008 election nicely: ill gotten gains.

    Shakespeare used it in Henry VI “Didst thou never hear that things ill got had ever bad success.”

    Or, in the idiom of Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Obama’s “chick-enssss are coming home to rooost!”

  10. Oops, Plouffe accidentally let the truth slip out.

    I anticipate a quick retraction, along the lines of, “I misspoke when I said we were relieved that Sen. Clinton agreed not to campaign. We always knew without a doubt that we could win there.”

    The schadenfruede I’m enjoying at the moment, is that all of Obama’s staffers are unable to be truly candid about anything, because they are so steeped in corruption and deceit.

    Must be exhausting, couldn’t happen to a more deserving group.

  11. I’ll be angry about this forever.

    If there’s ever a time when I can screw you, Allan, best believe you’re gonna get screwed. You, patriot, you.

  12. I’m not forgetting. All I have to do is turn on the news and listen to the excuses and adoration of The One and it comes back in a wave.

  13. Shakespeare used it in Henry VI “Didst thou never hear that things ill got had ever bad success.”

    Depends how you define success. I figure Obama plays by the George W. Bush definition: “Yeah, the country’s scr*wed, but I got mine, ya can’t put me in jail, so sayonara, suckers.”

  14. Don’t they mean that FL would have been on January 29, not February?

  15. Plural: they’re not so good on details. That or Plouffe just lied about something and someone should investigate.

  16. The NYTimes stopped being good on details about the time they invented Whitewater.

  17. The RBC meeting left me in a state of shock. Then I started realising just how naive I’d been.

    There will never be any change in the US without a fair and honest electoral process. The problem is that governments do not like changing the system which got them into power.

    Obama after all, was the Acorn lawyer who argued against visual id for voters.

  18. Mr. Plouffe said that he was surprised – and relieved – when the Clinton campaign bowed to pressure from early primary states, including Iowa and New Hampshire, and agreed not to campaign in Florida after the state defied the Democratic National Committee and scheduled its primary before Feb. 3. That spared the Obama campaign the burden of running in a state where all sides agreed Mrs. Clinton was very strong.

    Did she bow only to pressure from the early states or also the media saying how she is power hungry and entitled?

    Funny thing Mr. P forgets to say that Obama ran tv ads in Florida and still lost to Hillary who didn’t campaign or run any ads there.

  19. Never let people forget exactly what occurred that caused Florida to be penalized by the DNC. All we wanted here were more transparent elections. With the advent of the “voting machines”, we’d had some really bizarre election results where the outcomes were questionable. One election in 2006 had lost 60,000 votes! We passed an amendment to leave a paper trail when we voted. The Republicans attached the new Primary date to that amendment. We had to choose, transparent elections and the forbidden voting date penalty or more questionable election results each year. We went with the paper trail and a new primary date. The DNC penalized us for making sure every vote counted, then refused to count our votes anyway. Never forget how we all got screwed by our own party.

  20. “The Florida primary was always of concern to us,” Mr. Plouffe said. “When they agreed to do it in the Clinton campaign, I was really surprised.”

    Just this one statment pisses me off more than anything he said. Once again with the “the Clintons will do anything to win” lie, but in sheep’s clothing.

    Of course Hillary agreed not to campaign. She believes in following the rules, and is loyal to the Democratic Party to a fault.

    I never got over Florida 2000. I will never get over Florida 2008.

    But the consequences of not bargaining in good faith are that now voters sincerely believe that there isn’t a bit of difference between the parties, that all politicians are crooked and that you can’t trust any of them.

    WORD.

  21. It has lost the moral high ground. It ripped the nomination from one of its most deserving, loyalists and gave the finger to the voters.

    RD, well said.

  22. We passed an amendment to leave a paper trail when we voted. The Republicans attached the new Primary date to that amendment. We had to choose, transparent elections and the forbidden voting date penalty or more questionable election results each year. We went with the paper trail and a new primary date. The DNC penalized us for making sure every vote counted, …

    Yes, and little known fact: It was part of the nomination rules that Democrats were also supposed to make sure voting was transparent. And they did that, but still got smacked down.

    See my April 8th post Roolz vs Roolz for a run-down.

  23. honora, on December 12th, 2008 at 7:42 am Said:

    “I just got an email from ‘Shukoor Ahmed’. He claims that two people told him that I would be a wonderful candidate for jobs in the Obama/Biden administration. I am supposed to send him my resume and he will pass it on to the proper people in the administration.”

    ****************************************************

    I got the same email spam. I doubt it was from the obama or clinton lists as I successfully managed to get myself off of BOTH of those and have not received emails from any democratic group, including the DNC. This sounds like a typical spammer, I would STRONGLY suggest deleting, do not return an email response and above all do NOT forward personal info. I didn’t bother to look at the “sample” resume but I would guess it asks for personal info that can be used to hack into some kind of accounts.

  24. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jclordTOUrAKPT4gqF4lTowSgNDQD9516IKO4

    and

    http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/bulletin/bulletin_081212.htm

    I think we call be pretty confident that JJ Jr. will NOT be the next Senator from Illinois. That alone is worth the price of admission!

  25. Sounds a little like we’re supposed to believe that the reason Clinton didn’t get the nomination was because of mistake made by the Clinton campaign. Sorry, Mr. Plouffe. The nomination was stolen from Hillary because of dirty politics, sexism, and voter fraud; not because of a mistake made by her campaign.

  26. Please allow me one, OT. I’m so freakin’ happy to see JJJ getting splattered with some of the Blago slime, that I could just pop.

  27. Will Emanuel will be the fall guy for Obama on this one?

    http://cbs2chicago.com/governor/blagojevich.rahm.emanuel.2.885663.html

  28. janicen, on December 12th, 2008 at 9:24 am Said:
    Sounds a little like we’re supposed to believe that the reason Clinton didn’t get the nomination was because of mistake made by the Clinton campaign.
    *********************************************8

    That’s been the party line all along. Haven’t they been claiming it was campaign mistakes like not anticipating the caucus turnouts, etc. (as oppossed to not anticipationg the strong arm tactics and phony voters and other illegal and unethical behaviours)?

  29. Unbelievable. So they are proud of themselves that they won by cheating Clinton out of two states and millions of votes. It’s been Chicago-style politics since the beginning from the Obama campaign and now we’re supposed to act shocked that Obama (gasp!) was associated with criminals like Blagojevich? I am still astounded at how stupid some people in our party really are to believe this b.s. I remember when I used to laugh at how Republican voters were so stupid to vote for Bush twice. I no longer have the right to criticize anyone after seeing what liberals and progressives did in this election.

  30. Great post RD. Not only did dems lose the moral high ground, if they even briefly recognized it, they thrust it from themselves like a glass full of poison – yuck! Get out of here with that moral high ground! Dems reacted to the moral high ground like vampires to sunlight.

    And let’s not forget that not all states that changed primary dates were chastised. Only ones that could change the outcome.

    And finally, whatever spammers and pfishers are behind Shukoor Ahmed have rightly concluded that O “followers” are prime targets for the con artists of the world. Rich pickings people!
    I hope they get shafted as in a stake through the heart of the undead evil.

    And I don’t know how much pain is in store for the O staff and advisors over Blago, but isn’t it nice to see them grasping the brass ring and sweating and uh uh uh’ing and totally lying and flailing? Oh my gosh you thought you got away with it all and maybe your histories of corruption will linger on and on. What’s that smell? It’s like – sniff sniff – backed up drains….

  31. oops, darn it if I did not edit my paragraphs out of order. Sorry for the poor flow of ideas in the above post.

  32. Fantastic post…

    And, on the subject of old wounds that are still pissing us off…
    It’s that Caroline Kennedy/Teddy/NY Senate seat which has prompted me to update and repost the open letter I wrote to CK back in June…It pissed me off then, and if she’s installed in NY over more qualified women, I will be going ballilstic!!

    An Open Letter to Caroline Kennedy–July 13, 2008 (Reposted and Updated 12/11/08)

    http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com/2008/12/11/an-open-letter-to-caroline-kennedy-july-13-2008/

    I hope Rezko is singing up a storm, too!

  33. The kindest thing they have done is delivering their “f*ck you” to us with smiles on their faces! The “aren’t we clever” crowd never ceases to amaze.

    Just hoping that Rezko continues to ruminate on the length of his upcoming sentencing while turning over in his head all those baloney sandwiches and “mystery meat” meals he will likely be forced to eat and spills the beans on this whole enterprise.

    Please don’t try to convince me that there is no connection between Blago, his realtor wife, Rezko, Daley, and all the other beauties in IL who finally got their “piece of the pie” by stealing the voters blind. If MO and BO escape this tawdry tale then I will come to believe in the power of miracles.

  34. It’s getting so I start every day enraged by another brilliant post from Riverdaughter. But once again, the gloating is starting before the prize is really in hand. The way things are breaking in Chicago right now, a couple of Obama top aides could go down the tubes before the Inaguration.

  35. perries wrote:

    “whatever spammers and pfishers are behind Shukoor Ahmed have rightly concluded that O “followers” are prime targets for the con artists of the world. Rich pickings people!”
    ____________________________________________

    I think you’re right. I got that e-mail a couple of days ago, but I barely glanced at it. Now I wish I had read it more carefully. I’m picturing some young Kossians sending their resume and other information to Ahmad and dreaming of a job working for their messiah.

  36. Thing is, the overwhelming majority of Obots still don’t understand or acknowledge this truth, and I don’t think they ever will. Are there enough PUMA’s and other sane people to keep this truth alive and not be buried in the Obama myth?

    BTW, I got that same email. I just deleted it.

  37. Pat,

    The Rezko sentencing isn’t going to happen on schedule. It’s going to be delayed again. Read my post below. He is talking to Fitzgerald and the FBI now that Blago has been taken down.

  38. Aren’t we all getting a little tired of the Obama excuse that he knew nothing about anything when faced with the facts? Is he our own Sgt. Schultz?

    This is either the most naive politician to ever hit the boards or he is just another lying snake not unlike Nixon or Bush. You can’t have it both ways.

  39. He’s worse than Nixon or Bush if you ask me. Bush has the family connections. I don’t know if Obama’s supporters will stick with him once they get everything they want. We’ll have to wait and see. But I see Obama as very similar to Nixon, except that Obama has zero empathy or scruples. Anything goes with Obama as long as it helps him and he can get away with it. Nixon had some human emotions.

  40. Pat, Obama is our Tsar. As in: “Oh, if only the Tsar knew….”

  41. If only Axelfraud is one of the mystery “Advisors” — oh…if only…
    ************************************************

    That is not outside the realm of possibility. Obviously everyone with any influence would be trying to “persuade” blago. That obama states he never spoke to him about it is absurd of course although it’s unlikely that obama and his closest advisors like axelrod and emanuel are stupid enough to have actually said anything that would implicate them in a pay to play deal (unlike JJ Jr.).

  42. SOD,

    I don’t think they will really turn on Obama unless they start to believe he won’t pardon them. But they are going to take down some people close to Obama. I wish it could be Axelrod too, but I can’t believe he would be stupid enough to talk to Blago on the phone. It sounds like Rahm Emanuel may have been on that two hour conference call that is mentioned in the criminal complaint.

  43. DV — me too!

    I remember when I used to laugh at how Republican voters were so stupid to vote for Bush twice. I no longer have the right to criticize anyone after seeing what liberals and progressives did in this election.

    I’m totally teed off that I’ve lost my “moral superiority” about Republicans! :-)

  44. Nixon, Bush, and Obama are all cut from the same cloth. Power is the name of the game and the public be damned. The only differentiation is party label. Otherwise they share the same traits and scruples have nothing to do with it. Once you have divested yourself of integrity, the sky is the limit.

    And there are more than willing enablers out there capable of forgiving and forgetting their transgressions. Nixon tried to take the government down and turning it into a police state. Bush lied to the public regarding an unnecessary bloodbath. Obama merely takes his place onstage with the same capabilities at hand.

    The public, stupidly looking for something different, just got more of the same. The public be damned.

  45. Any son that would be so willing and eager to throw his father under a bus just to get a Senate seat would have absolutely no qualms about forking over some $$ for the same result.

  46. Something that really pissed me off…JJJ claiming that HRC was a r@cist after tearing up before the NH primary because she didn’t cry over Katrina.

    Well, JJJ, you didn’t either. Are you crying now?

  47. SOD,

    The pardons usually happen at the end of the term, so it would be four years. I wouldn’t put it past Obama to do it earlier. RD said last night she thought he could get away with doing it. I’m not sure. The thing is the Obama people don’t have any way of knowing what Fitzgerald already has on them. It’s very clear from the criminal complaint that Obama’s fingerprints are everywhere. I think Obama has to be careful.

  48. janicen, on December 12th, 2008 at 10:10 am Said:
    Something that really pissed me off…JJJ claiming that HRC was a r@cist after tearing up before the NH primary because she didn’t cry over Katrina.

    Well, JJJ, you didn’t either. Are you crying now?
    *********************************************

    LOL, actually I do believe he did get a bit misty eyed during his bizarro press conference on the blago incident.

  49. SOD, LOL!

    Conspiracy theory alert …
    What I wonder about is this … my guess is that Cheney & Bush have access to all sorts of wiretaps and snoopery on all these Chicago thugs.
    Will they give it to the GOP to help them take down Obama?
    Or will the shadowy money-men behind Cheney & Bush demand that Obama’s reign be unsullied?

  50. boomer — if Rahm gets the cuffs we should all sign a card telling him he should’ve just went home and knitted a scarf.

    rofl! In fact, if he gets the cuffs I propose that we should knit him present for prison. Like, nice fuzzy shackle covers so they won’t chafe during his many court hearings. We care. We may be bitter, but we are caring knitters.

  51. “Florida would have taken place on Feb. 29, which Mr. Plouffe argued could have made everyone forget South Carolina.”

    Florida voted on January 29, 2008 and HILLARY WON.

    But the media ignored it.

  52. SOD!!!! LOL! Yes, we can all send Rahm yarn and knitting patterns in the slammer. But they probably won’t let him have knitting needles.

  53. The rift between the Jackson’s, father and son, supposedly is based on the revelation that Jesse Sr. had a mistress and a child borne out of that relationship. Jesse Jr. sided with his mother. One cannot blame him for that.

    But let’s not get all teary eyed over the fact that he “threw his father under the bus”. From my standpoint he deserves it as much as the son. Both have deceived the public for years and turning Jesse Sr. into a maligned saint misses the point.

    He betrayed his wife and family and used campaign funds to support the girlfriend. Nobody’s hands are clean in this mess.

  54. Yes, four years is a long time, and at this point Obama’s Chicago buddies have started to wake up to the fact that they have been used up and thrown under the bus.

  55. If he did, ainnj, I imagine that we’ll be seeing reports in the press about his playing the “crying game” and speculation about whether they were authentic tears or just a means to evoke sympathy.

  56. BB wrote “The thing is the Obama people don’t have any way of knowing what Fitzgerald already has on them. It’s very clear from the criminal complaint that Obama’s fingerprints are everywhere. I think Obama has to be careful.”

    Yes, that is particularly delicious right now. tee hee!

  57. Pat Johnson, on December 12th, 2008 at 10:13 am Said:
    The rift between the Jackson’s, father and son, supposedly is based on the revelation that Jesse Sr. had a mistress and a child borne out of that relationship. Jesse Jr. sided with his mother. One cannot blame him for that.
    *******************************************

    I personally dont give a hoot about JJ’s Jr and his abandonment issues with his daddy. He threw daddy under the bus strictly to separate himself so as not to jeopardize his chances for the senate seat.

  58. annij,

    I think I remember reading some quote from JJ Junior about how he cried like a baby when Obama “won” the nomination.

  59. So, what are the rules about indicting a sitting president in a criminal matter?

  60. JJJr. teared up at his press conference when he mentioned his sister texting him and telling him what a great guy he is. Nothing like false modesty to open up the waterworks.

  61. So JJJ can tear up because he’s such a sensitive guy, but when Hillary does it, she’s a monster.

  62. Pat Johnson, on December 12th, 2008 at 10:13 am Said:

    “But let’s not get all teary eyed over the fact that he “threw his father under the bus”. From my standpoint he deserves it as much as the son. Both have deceived the public for years and turning Jesse Sr. into a maligned saint misses the point. ”
    **********************************************

    I am not sure who you mean about not getting teary eyed, I am certainly not. He threw his daddy under the bus. Nothing in my post even slightly indicates how I feel about his daddy, either way.

  63. bb — you forget these people actually know B0 — thus, they know he isn’t going to do shinola for them.
    They’ll sing.

  64. I have to get busy knitting a soap-on-a-rope cozy for Rahm.

  65. SOD,

    I think Blago is a real loose cannon. From the quotes that the FBI made public, he sounds like he really thought he could get away with anything. He was saying a lot of stuff in those tapped phone calls.

    A lot of people have to be wondering if they have already been implicated. Will they be thinking carefully about whether they should talk now or wait until they are arrested? I’m not sure how that usually works. Maybe myiq2xu knows.

  66. Today on Morning Joe all the talking morons were blathering about the “clean bill” Fitzgerald gave Obama. Bleccch! The only one making sense as usual was my boyfriend, Joe Scar, who TWICE referred to Obama as “the Chosen One.” (I told you he was a PUMA!)

    When Mika tried to mealy-mouth something in return, Joe said, “Well, we all know that at Christmas we’re not supposed to say mean things about the Baby Jesus, and at any time we’re not supposed to say mean things about the Chosen One.” It was great…!!

  67. The entire situation with the DNC is a travesty. I no longer think of being a Democrat as having much to do with the DNC PAC.

  68. imo, you have to get what you want from a narcissist up front or you won’t get it at all. If you help him get what he wants, then you better be happy with the idea that it is better to give than to receive, because you aren’t going to receive anything but ingratitude and a nice push if you get yourself in trouble.

    OT – I am supposed to be baking christmas cookies this morning, but instead I am catching up with the View from Under the Bus. Great show ladies. I particularly laughed at angienc’s “the soon-to-be-indicted Rahm Emanuel.” It is harsh to listen to the misogyny-review clips though,.

  69. President has immunity. Impeachment is the only alternative.

  70. Ya know, Fitz had enough evidence that Blago was trying to sell that Senate seat to Obama (for Valerie J.) to get a warrant to tap Obama’s phones too.

    I’m not saying he did, but he could have.

  71. bostonboomer, on December 12th, 2008 at 10:20 am Said:
    SOD,

    I think Blago is a real loose cannon. From the quotes that the FBI made public, he sounds like he really thought he could get away with anything. He was saying a lot of stuff in those tapped phone calls.
    *************************************************

    I bet someone not on anyone’s list will ultimately be the next Illinois Senator. I cannot imagine any of the likely contenders will be getting it now, many probably don’t want it anymore.

  72. ainnj, on December 12th, 2008 at 10:09 am Said:

    Right on, friend.

  73. jules, I bet the rule about indicting next year’s president is that it’s not allowed because it’s r@cist.

    For regular non-transcendent presidents, I think there’s an argument about it, but a lot come down on the side that he could be subject to criminal prosecution.
    And he could also pardon himself.

  74. So even if they all sing like birds and implicate O, he can’t be touched for at least 4 years as long as they wait until after he’s sworn in. Great.

  75. I will never forgive or forget the Republicans and what they did to Gore. And I will never forgive or forget what the Democrats did to us in 2008. Never.

    There are Democrats, now Obots, who were proud of the fact that when it came time to “getting over” Bush v. Gore, they never had and never would. “Nope, not over it,” became their mantra. Yet when we–as rightfully aggrieved as they, if not more so–take the same attitude, they taunt us with the Republicanesque “Get over it!” They are arrogant bastards just like their corrupt masters in the DNC and no, I will NOT get over it. Ever. And every screwup by The Precious just confirms my refusal to ever “move on.”

  76. OT but I need a hand:
    I’m working on setting up 51 Percent as a formal organization (501) c 3 civic and educational purposes.
    I need some facts, with sources, preferably dry statistics, on the women’s quality of life/standard of living. If you have some to share please send to HLF Blogger at gmail dot com

  77. Heidi Li, on December 12, 2008 at 10:21 am Said:

    President has immunity. Impeachment is the only alternative.

    ————————–

    Aw, Heidi! What is it the kids say? You just harshed my buzz!

  78. Heidi,
    Is your website working ok? I tried to post a comment this morning but the little “waiting” arrow just kept going round and round. Probably something on my end but just checkin.

  79. julies:

    If Obama is directly implicated and he refuses to resign and the Dem Congress doesn’t impeach him the GOP will be back in charge of Congress in 2010.

  80. Heidi, is immunity really that cut and dried?
    http://supreme.justia.com/constitution/article-2/47-presidential-immunity.html

    http://news.lawreader.com/?p=171

    My guess is thta the Supreme Court would be EXTREMELY reluctant to touch it though.

  81. julies9164, on December 12th, 2008 at 10:23 am Said:

    Nobody ever ever thought that Richard Nixon would resign over threat of impeachment. Basic corruption that is people for easy to grasp can build an impeachment movement.

  82. Would somebody else try my website?
    I’ll try from my computer but let’s see if it is working.

    http://tdg.typepad.com/heidi_lis_potpourri/

  83. Eh, I’m in moderation … I googled some links that say that presidential immunity is not absolute.

    http://news.lawreader.com/?p=171

    My guess is that the Supreme Court would be EXTREMELY reluctant to touch it though.

  84. Heidi, your website works fine for me.

  85. Yeeesss!!!!
    I can knit him a (small) square and send it to him, then he can sit in jail and sew them all together to make a nice aghan for the Red Cross.

  86. Heidi:

    You can bet the rent that the GOP won’t ever say “impeachment is off the table”

  87. I got your site Heidi.

  88. myiq and Heidi – in a sane world I would say you’re right, but after the mass delusion of this past election, I can’t help but feel that O is the John Gotti of politics.

  89. Laurie – you are a generous soul. I think he would find that very therapeutic. rofl!

  90. janicen, on December 12th, 2008 at 10:26 am Said:

    No reason for your buzz to be harshed, as this kid would say. In my lawyerly fashion, I believe that process will play out here – in an excruciatingly slow way of course – IF President-elect Obama acts constituting high crimes and misdeameanors, he will become subject to investigation. But no good prosecutor goes after a President-elect or sitting president without very carefully and slowly building a case.

  91. myiq2xu, on December 12th, 2008 at 10:32 am Said:

    Dam’ straight. Don’t get me started on Nancy Pelosi…

  92. For the love of god, somebody needs to get started on Nancy so we all can get finished with her.

    What is wrong with that woman?

  93. Anyone know which Democrats didn’t vote yes on the bailout last night?

  94. votermom, on December 12th, 2008 at 10:29 am Said:

    For practical purposes, immunity is that cut and dried. And no prosecutor or congressional committee wants to go after a President-elect or President on something that would seem to be a “technicality”. So, Nixon’s actions were easily seen as treasonous because he literally plotted an extra-constitutional government run by CREEP. If President Bush literally walked out and committed homicide – no immunity. But anything in between is not something a law enforcement official will want to get involved with.

  95. I replied – so YOU’ve got mail!

  96. Julies9164 — more like a PUPPET on the hand of John Gotti</blockquote?

    Or a non-stick oven mitt.

  97. perries!! Thanks!

  98. No, *I* am fast. You have more (smile)

  99. I never thought he would sink any lower but after finding out JJJr. had to be wlling to bribe Blago to get Obama’s senate seat, I was left num. After everything JJJr. did for him. Where is Obama going to find friends who are willing to bully and threaten other AAs for you? Friends who are willing to throw their fathers under the bus for you. JJJr. should have been his first pick as a replacement for his senate seat. He shouldn’t have needed to do the bribing himself. If Rezko or Blago believe Obama will pardon them then they are kidding themselves. In the words of “admin” at Hillaryis44

    Obama simply cannot be trusted. Obama cannot be trusted on any issue. Obama cannot be trusted by his friends. Obama cannot be trusted by his enemies. Obama cannot be trusted.

  100. We had our departmental holiday lunch the other day and inevitably the talk turned to Blago. The refrain from the obots was that he is mentally ill and must have been quite a trial for the poor other dems to deal with, poor O and his advisors, having to interact with that crazy man. I’ve noticed they faithfully chorus useful themes the media floats. They all did the ‘I’m insulted by Palin’ chorus too, back in the fall.

    I think the unspoken corollary to “Blago is mental” is that he “acted alone.”

    Unfortunately it is not up to the media or the faithful to make the ‘acted alone’ meme stick. It’s up to the evidence.

  101. Very interesting, myiq2xu. I’m guessing they wouldn’t have wiretapped Obama, but they could have listened to people they thought might be talking to him or his top advisors.

  102. SOD: I take that responsibility gladly.

  103. btw perries — re: having to get what you want up front from a narcissist — I was married to one, so I know you are speaking the truth. That’s why I think the Blago-Obama showdown will be exciting — what will happen with these two narcissists playing chicken. Obama threw down the gauntlet when he had the audacity to call for Blago to resign after Blago said he wasn’t going anywhere. I don’t see Blago walking away.

  104. Now I’ll go eat and sleep. I’ve been awake for a very long time.

    Toodles, all. Enjoy the day.

  105. Ugh. What a bunch of petty creeps. Why let something minor like actual voting get in the way of their vanity and selfish agenda?

    And now it looks like Rahm is in this up to his neck. They are acting so pious and “appalled” about the deal-making. Puh-leaze. The only thing this proves is that they were cunning & devious enough to know that Blag was already being investigated and not to leave any “fingerprints” (as Harris called it).

    Chicago — The firestorm surrounding Governor Blagojevich is putting some heat on Barack Obama’s transition team. Fox Chicago News has learned about possible conversations between a top Obama aide and the governor regarding the open senate seat. Craig Wall has the exclusive.

    http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=8054792&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

  106. Thanks for the tech feedback all.

    Ainnj, time to be annoyed with verizon again!

  107. Heidi, verizon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Ugh!
    I am currently engaged in another battle of phone fu with their billing department!

  108. Heidi — I’m not an expert on immunity issues but I thought the presidential immunity only applied for acts committed after becoming President — I know B0 has been pretending to be the President for the last year, but he isn’t the President (or even the President-elect) yet. This is different from Nixon too as Watergate happened during Nixon’s first term while he was running for re-election. I think charges on B0′s pre-President years that arise after he is sworn in could create an interesting question about immunity. I would argue it doesn’t apply to pre-Presidential actions.

  109. OMG! Don’t get me started with verizon. They gave me a “new” phone number when I moved that must have been inactive for about two hours! No, dammit! There’s no “Rachel” living here!

  110. It was the tapes that really got Nixon. When the public actually heard him talking with Haldeman, Erlichman, and Dean like a bunch of thugs the nation rose up in disgust. After what Bush and Cheney have gotten away with–far worse than Watergate–it will take a lot to bring a President down. Thanks to Nancy and her buddies, impeachment is going to be very difficult.

  111. I’ve noticed they faithfully chorus useful themes the media floats. They all did the ‘I’m insulted by Palin’ chorus too, back in the fall.

    perries: Isn’t it all so “pod-people?” Limbaugh (I know, BFIdiot but good research for how the other side thinks) does these edits where he pieces together the talking points from various “drive-by media” outlets. It’s blatantly obvious when you hear 10+ different talking heads repeating the exact same phrase over and over again. With Blago, it is “delusional, sociopathic,” etc. In other words, it’s not ALL Dems, it’s just this one crazy guy, and therefore, no one else is at fault, and it has nothing to do with Chicago (ie: Obama & associates). He be craaaaaaaaaaazy!

  112. fif, on December 12th, 2008 at 10:47 am

    From what I have read about Rahm. Obama better not think he can play him like he did Blago and JJJr.

  113. Interesting, angienc. Certainly, it didn’t apply to the Vice President when they indicted Agnew for things he did before he took office.

  114. I think you’re right, Angie. But I still think it will be very hard to impeach the first “black” president. I think we’re stuck with him, and he’s already damaged goods. How must this look to our allies?

  115. There were plans to indict Bill Clinton, but he made a deal. And he had to testify before a grand jury.

    http://www.iht.com/articles/2001/01/20/clint.2.t_3.php

  116. This may be a technicality, but Mr O is only president-elect when the electoral college commits the folly of *electing* him. This is in fact the election as described in the Constitution. That excruciating business we endured on November 4 only elects the electors!

    Also, did Dr. Heidi Li say say that the president has immunity? Not clear on what she meant by that.

  117. Heidi Li, on December 12th, 2008 at 10:48 am Said:
    Thanks for the tech feedback all.

    Ainnj, time to be annoyed with verizon again!
    ****************************************

    It’s a permanent state of being for me!

    My NEW beef is the 50$ cell phone “rebate”. The scam of upgrading cell phones I can deal with (they charge ridiculous prices and pretend since you are upgrading you are getting a discount), we recently upgraded one of our cellphones and instead of the 50$ check, we got a 50$ rebate “card”!! IN little print on the back of the rebate card it states that if not used within 12 months, you are charged with a monthly maintenance fee of $3. I plan on going out today and spending the entire card.

  118. Poor Rahm may have to step down before Jan. 20. Has re officially resigned his House seat yet? Good think Hillary has hung onto hers. She might not want to be associated with these thugs in a few weeks.

  119. bb — just to clarify — I agree — I have serious doubts about it happening to B0, I’m just thinking theoretically here! LOL

    as to this:

    bostonboomer, on December 12th, 2008 at 10:53 am Said:

    It was the tapes that really got Nixon. When the public actually heard him talking with Haldeman, Erlichman, and Dean like a bunch of thugs the nation rose up in disgust.

    I doubt those tapes would cause the same reaction in today’s society as they have would not have the same “shock value” in a society were thugs like Jay-Z & Ludicrious are stars. Hell, look at the thug the country elected to President!

  120. I just got a second e-mail from Ahmad.

  121. Nobody is going to indict Obama, but here is more on JJJr from AP:

    Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. flatly denies that he and his brother were involved in a scheme to get him a Senate seat in a deal with scandal-tainted Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich (bluh-GOY’-uh-vich).

    The remarks in an interview with The Associated Press Friday came on the heels of a Chicago Tribune report that cited unidentified sources. The newspaper said businessmen with ties to the governor and congressmen discussed raising $1 million for Blagojevich to get him to appoint Jackson to the Senate. The report depicts Jackson’s brother as an active participant.

    The congressman said “to an absolute certainty” that his brother was not involved in any scheming or wrongdoing.

  122. OT but annoying, nonetheless. Due to last night’s ice storm here in NY, I only got local network channels, so I had CBS on in the background for the weather. Letterman came on afterward, and he announced that McCain was going to be on, so I left it on to see what he had to say. He looks well-rested after his new found freedom from campaign hell. They chatted about various things: he said HRC would do a good job, is very knowledgeable and would bring instant credibility to the position around the world. Letterman kept trying to undermine her role because of the lack of congruity with BO, but McCain wouldn’t bite.

    Then…Letterman turned to the NY Senate seat. “There’s a lot of talk here in NY about Caroline Kennedy, and I think she would be a lovely choice, don’t you?”

    To my shock, McCain agreed. “Yea, I’m very good friends with Ted Kennedy, despite our philosophical differences. Of course, I don’t know the other candidates, but she would be a fine choice.”

    WHAT am I missing here? She should be chosen because it would be a nice gift for Ted?! The woman is not even IN politics, She is not a legislator. How can a sitting Senator discuss this without even mentioning that one of the most powerful positions will just be handed over to someone as a present for her uncle even though she has NO QUALIFICATIONS for the job?! Then again, I am still screaming the same question in my head about BO. It just seems like people that should know better (McCain) are in a fog too.

  123. Was blago also in charge of replacing Rahm’s seat as well? He hasn’t officially stepped down yet, as far as I know. That could make this a lot more interesting.

  124. New avatars I see. I miss my meatball.

  125. Was blago also in charge of replacing Rahm’s seat as well?

    No, the Blagman only got to put a senate seat up for sale; the gov doesn’t appoint House members.

  126. Ainnj, yes, Bag-o-moneyvich also gets to replace Rahm’s seat which is also Bag-o’s former seat.

  127. fif — McCain was being gracious. The problem is Letterman asking the question. Seems like the msm has gotten its talking points for Caroline getting Hill’s seat — she is a “lovely” choice — well, isn’t that special? {rolls eyes}

  128. Ok very quick overview on sovereign immunity for a sitting president accused of felonies:
    There are a variety of doctrines which give partial immunity at least for while the president is in office. Hence, even if crimes were committed prior to taking office most courts would delay criminal trial until after President’s term. The matter would be regarded as a “political question” [technical term], and because impeachment is an available procedure that is what the courts would expect; impeachment does NOT prevent a president from being later tried for ordinatry crimes (that is why Ford pardoned Nixon).

    For some of the time period in question Obama was still a Senator; they enjoy a number of partial immunities from suit, but not as extensive as Presidents.

    Spiro Agnew is a good example. He resigned and THEN pleaded nolo contrendre to the charges against him.

    I’m not suggesting that threats of indictments do not create pressure on v.p.s or presidents, but I am happy to make a bet that Mr. Obama is not going to be indicted prior to January 20.

  129. plural, on December 12th, 2008 at 11:04 am Said:
    “The congressman said “to an absolute certainty” that his brother was not involved in any scheming or wrongdoing.”
    ************************************************

    Better move over dad!

  130. I didn’t see JJJ cry over those 10,000 people killed by a tornado in Kansas.

  131. Ainnj, yes, Bag-o-moneyvich also gets to replace Rahm’s seat which is also Bag-o’s former seat.

  132. angienc, on December 12th, 2008 at 10:45 am Said:
    btw perries — re: having to get what you want up front from a narcissist — I was married to one, so I know you are speaking the truth. That’s why I think the Blago-Obama showdown will be exciting — what will happen with these two narcissists playing chicken. Obama threw down the gauntlet when he had the audacity to call for Blago to resign after Blago said he wasn’t going anywhere. I don’t see Blago walking away.

    Ah angienc, you know what I am talking about – you have my sympathies and also congratulations on kicking the “N” to the curb. It’s hard sometimes for the uninitiated to really believe how truly incapable a pathological narcissist is of mutuality in any way, on any day. It’s more than just a bad habit.

    In that regard, JJ Jr discovers his demonstration of 110% loyalty will never be enough, because O doesn’t care – he takes that for granted and doesn’t even care. 115% would not be enough, 125% would not be enough. No amount will win reciprocity or appreciation. Imo, MO is in the same position but her role is to be #1 faithful devotee and guardian of O’s interests. It sucks to be them.

    Now Blago on the other hand, knows that he has been left behind and is being jettisoned. He already had a huge case of envy. Hey just 5 years ago all those guys were helping him get elected and now he is no longer the birthday boy. Where’s his cake? Where? It’s noooot faaaaaiiiir.

    Pass the popcorn.

    Must go make those cookies.

  133. Are those of you receiving emails from the mysterious “Ahmed” posters from the Obama change.gov site?
    ***********************************************

    I am not registered on any democratic sites, and never even went to the change.gov site.
    This is a spammer/scammer, doubt if it’s connected to any official site or the democratic party or dnc.
    Don’t respond, don’t reply, just delete.

  134. Thanks Heidi — now that I just read that, the immunity thing is “coming back” to be! LOL — It has been more years then you will ever get me to admit since law school! :-)

  135. From what I have read about Rahm. Obama better not think he can play him like he did Blago and JJJr.

    Downticket: I read something about Rahm sending dead fish to people as a message like in the Godfather.

  136. SOD: It didn’t come off that way. They were chatting amiably about it as if it was completely logical and understandable. That she would even be considered for SENATOR–an extremely coveted and prestigious post in this country–just because of Ted’s career is to me, preposterous. As I said though, I kept yelling for months: BUT HE HAS NO EXPERIENCE!!! and no one seemed to care then either. I was just surprised that McCain went along with it completely, out of deference to Ted. With all due respect, Ted is going to get a lot of mileage out of this brain tumor.

  137. It just seems like people that should know better (McCain) are in a fog too.

    Too many people have lost their minds. When will they see the light?

  138. fif, on December 12th, 2008 at 11:12 am Said:

    From what I have read about Rahm. Obama better not think he can play him like he did Blago and JJJr.

    Downticket: I read something about Rahm sending dead fish to people as a message like in the Godfather.

    He did? God, what an a–hole!

  139. The macho stimulus plan

    Barack Obama has convincingly argued for a stimulus package that creates jobs that produce things we desperately need and want. “We’ll put people back to work rebuilding our crumbling roads and bridges, modernizing schools that are failing our children, and building wind farms and solar panels; fuel-efficient cars; and the alternative-energy technologies that can free us from our dependence on foreign oil and keep our economy competitive in the years ahead.”

    Yes, we need bridges, roads, and schools. And yes, we should invest in green jobs – stimulating the economy as well as building a strong basis for economic growth in the future. However, there is a crucial missing link in this package – both on the employment side and the investment side. That link is women. This might as well be called the macho stimulus package.

    http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/articles/2008/11/28/the_macho_stimulus_plan/

  140. annij,

    That can’t be where Ahmad got my name, because I just signed up at Change.gov yesterday, and I got my first e-mail from Ahmad a few days ago. I got off the DNC mailing list way back in the spring, but I started getting things from Obama again after he took over the DNC. He (Obama) must have gottem my name from John Kerry’s list.

  141. Ahmad is probably related to our uncle who left us six million.

  142. Off to work. Great day to the sane Conflucians who have not been Obotomized.

  143. plural, on December 12th, 2008 at 11:21 am Said:
    Ahmad is probably related to our uncle who left us six million.
    ************************************************8

    your uncle left you 6 million too? what a coincidence :)

  144. annij,

    Yes, Blago is in charge of filling Rahm’s vacated seat and it was alluded to in the conversations that are printed in the criminal complaint. Rahm is in district 5, and Blago specifically talks about an Obama advisor who needs to know that he isn’t getting his choice for a replacement unless he plays ball. That is Emanuel’s district.

  145. Who is going to do the hiring for the macho stimulus?

    Will he give out money to the states for infrastructure programs, or will it go through the federal Transportation Dept?

    He’s already set up several new White House offices — how about a new “road czar”?

  146. Actually when I visited redstate, a hard core Republican site, some of the boys there were talking about mounting a challenge to McCain in the 2010 primary.

    I was saddened at the hatred of Mccain among certain Republicans because of immigration reform– they call him Juan McCain. It’s ironic that McCain, who is too bipartisan for conservative Republicans, with that remark about Caroline became too bipartisan for the folks here as well!

  147. parentofed, on December 12th, 2008 at 11:10 am Said:
    I didn’t see JJJ cry over those 10,000 people killed by a tornado in Kansas

    —–
    Hee! Probably didn’t cry over the pollution of the great lakes of Oregon either.

  148. plural, on December 12th, 2008 at 11:25 am Said:

    He’s already set up several new White House offices — how about a new “road czar”?

    In keeping with all the czar positions, he’s going to set up a new office about the business of how he came to be in the Oval Office, the new office will be called, “bizzare.”

  149. Is anyone keeping track of the policies dear messiah has stolen from Hillary?

  150. Downticket — remember Hillary’s “nuclear umbrella option” for Israel that B0 & his bots scoffed at and derided and said proved what a blood thirsty warmonger Hillary was? Well, B0 seems to have, shall we say, “reconsidered his position.” Nuclear umbrella option is a “go” for the B0 WH.

  151. angienc, on December 12th, 2008 at 11:41 am

    But it is Obama that is inspiration and has the greatest plans. Does he really have any original ideas of his own?

  152. soupcity: Maybe he thought they were all white people in Kansas and didn’t care.

  153. This ranks right up there with some of my favorite RD posts (and competition is high). It’s brimming with the righteous indignation we all feel.

    Back to work–will check in later.

  154. Can you believe we talk about Letterman in regards to politics? He is such a sexist a**hole. You couldn’t fit what he thinks he knows about politics into the Hoover Dam, but a thimble would hold what he really knows. He’s discovered the DK line of political thought, hook line sinker.

  155. No one will ever forget the slimefest, RD.
    It has slithered and slimed its way all over what was a very decent political party — with a very decent Democrat (Hillary) who should be the president.

    She was our pick.

    As more Blagos come out? Hmmmmm…………..

    I think the FBI needs to investigate the overseas fundraising myself. Or the Republican Party should. Perhaps they already are?

    At any rate, the Dems no longer have Dem values. We know what those look like, having been Dems. Since forever!

  156. This bunch will be so busy trying to save their own asses that they will be like some on the titanic dressing as women to get into the lifeboats.
    Loyality is a word in the dictionary between liar and lying.
    Is there something that happens about 4pm eastern and 700pm pacific to spam.?
    my comments come up during the day until around 400pm here after that they go to cyberspace.

    WOMEN, MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  157. Bravo! Bravo!
    In 2000 W told a Scandinavian diplomat : “I won against peace and prosperity” This one is the second most asinine, cynical statement after that one.

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