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News from Crooks and Liars- Open ThreadRed State Update prays for Tiger Woods. That good enough for ya, Brit Hume? This video is not safe for work. Open thread below...
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- Ingraham's suggestion that Obama didn't identify Al Qaeda as "the real threat" undermined by Obama's commentsFox News contributor Laura Ingraham claimed that "the number one thing [President Obama's] not doing" to fight terrorism "is identifying what the real threat is" and that in his last weekly radio address, Obama cited "a war against violence and hatred," strongly suggesting that Obama has not addressed the threat posed by Al […]
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- Wash. Times revives myth that health reform is unconstitutionalIn a January 7 editorial, The Washington Times took a Congressional Research Service (CRS) report out of context to revive the myth that the individual mandate included in the health reform legislation is unconstitutional. In fact, CRS does not conclude that the mandate is unconstitutional, and numerous legal experts have debunked the claim.Wash. Times takes […]
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- Ingraham's suggestion that Obama didn't identify Al Qaeda as "the real threat" undermined by Obama's comments
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The Confluence proud finalist: "Best Liberal Blog"
- The Lede, the New York Times Blog
- Unscarred, Berlusconi Appears in PublicLess than four weeks after an attack in Milan, Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi appeared for the first time without bandages on Wednesday, during a shopping trip in France.
- Iranian TV Sees Conspiracy in Neda VideoA new documentary made for Iranian television seeks to prove that the graphic, widely-seen amateur video of a female protester named Neda Agha-Soltan bleeding to death on a Tehran street last June was fake.
- Passenger Jets Still Carry Unscreened CargoWhile a lot of attention has been paid in recent days to the need to find better ways to screen passengers and their luggage on passenger jets, it remains an uncomfortable fact that entirely unscreened packages are still routinely loaded into the cargo holds of those same airplanes.
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I think you know what I want.
he he he
btw — I know Kay Hagan won — anyone know how the other 3 of the “fab four” in the right hand corner did?
To your room, kids.
From below, angie: that would be particularly sweet if Hillary takes over in 4 years and is one of the best Presidents ever.
Earlier this year, I dated a psychic woman for a while. I don’t know if she said this just to get in my pants (knowing I loved Hillary) but she said the charts pointed to this (2008) being a MASSIVELY important year for women in politics in America. Her interpretation at the time was that Hillary would become Pres. Maybe the interpretation is off as I think this year made many more new Feminists.
Stender lost.
So I hear you told UTC “You’re not the boss of me” of something like that.
I wish that Barack’s grandmother had lived to see this historic day–when he actually apologized to someone for the first time in his life.
Unless his spokespeople are lying.
scrubs — Hillary did win the primary this year, if you ask me — it was stolen from her. And with Palin on the GOP ticket, it was a big year for women (and I personally think she & McCain won — it was voter fraud that gave the election to BO)
angie rocked!
Damn, are you guys going to make me go back and read old threads?
What happened between angie and UTC?
I checked the compatability wizard for Aries + Aries:
“You’re both strong-willed. When you agree, it’s the two of you against the world. When you disagree, sparks will fly!”
myiq — that is exactly what I told UTC — he came here several times today in several different thread & told us that we needed to stop “bitching & moaning about BO” and that we need to “move on” — swear to god, he said those exact words. So I told him to stop being such a pill. That we were criticizing BO’s press conference not bitching & moaning, and even if we we were, this is RD’s blog, not his. I ended with “You’re not the boss of me”
UTC was being a condescending jackass, and angie told him to get stuffed. lol
Seriously — I think the spokesperson is lying. If he even spoke to Nancy at all he WORM’ed it.
http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2008/11/07/o-doodoo-economics-2/#comments
10:00 pm
What is the acronym WORM?
Aww, you checked the compatability wizard! {swoon} Don’t you know that everyone’s “perfect match” is someone of their same sign? Besides, that description sounds good to me even when we disagree — I like it when sparks fly.
Yeah and he was like, “it’s time to move on” (it’s been three freaking days) and then, “the election is over, people have voted, that’s democracy” (thanks I was unaware), and he told us that we need to start focusing on whatever he’s concerned about right now, because Bo has bamboozled us and we’re up BO’s arse. Oh, and then he called on riverdaughter to speak out and back him up.
pop — What Obama Really Meant — WORM
RCP says Victoria Wulsin lost also.
UTC annoyed me on the Palin thread I did earlier.
He kept saying stuff like “Shouldn’t we look for a 3rd party candidate” and “I thought this was a Democratic blog”
And I specifically said in my post that I would like to see the best possible choice from each party
Yeah I agree, angie The only confirmation we have that he called her are his sources.
pop–what obama really meant
pop — that was the second time that day UTC said something like that — he said the same thing on the day shift, which is when he said the “bitching & moaning” thing.
Oh cool, thanks for the update.
Good on you, angie. Sounds like you were more polite to UTC than you have been to BO and the bots in recent days (FUCK EM!, for example)
He said that a day or so ago too. Appears interested in guiding folks into the DNC framework.
I find it annoying when he tells other people what to do. I mean, if you’re ready to concentrate on 12, then how about you do that and tell us about it–don’t order everyone else to do it.
Kryzan lost as well.
UTC wasn’t the most obnoxious person today
Yeah, and he proviously called on riverdaughter to banish the Palin love because he feels that palin supporters are like Obots voting for her because her hair is pretty or something.
WAS IT ME?
lmao
myiq — I remember about UTC in the Palin thread, that is why I was already annoyed at him when he started the “its time to move on” spiel. I was also already annoyed at him because two days ago he also had the nerve to tell afrocity what the “black experience” was based on the fact that he allegedly teaches black student. When he said that I told him “don’t you think it is a tad condescending for you, a white man, to explain the black experience to a black woman?” he answered with some bs and ended with “as long as it is a ‘tad’ I’m ok with that.” I told him that when I said “tad” I was being polite. He then ignored me. So, basically, the guy already had 2 strikes against him when he started with the “move on” bs today.
Brad Mays – the guy making the Audacity of Democracy movie.
Which, BTW, I thought was gonna be released before the election
who was the most annoying myiq?
Obama
God — Brad Mays — he makes UTC look like Prince Charming. What good is that film going to do now?
pop — lol — you are right about that!
Yeah, myiq. Inquiring minds want to know.
Maybe it will be screened at the White House?
UTC actually has some good ideas, but they require The Party. I’ve explained at least twice why any party requirement is a disqualifier as far as Im concerned, but he hasnt responded.
Audacity, right– we’re not even a democracy and weren’t meant to be.
myiq — so did you like my “you’re not the boss of me” line? I really wanted to tell him to eff off but I didn’t want to be mean to a semi-regular poster.
pop — UTC doesn’t respond at all to any questions — he just drops a turd in the middle of a thread telling us to “move on” and then doesn’t respond. I remember you asking him what he suggested we do but he ignored you.
considering the language you used continually the other day you were remarkably restrained
I should go back and see if he replied to George Washington’s position on the dangers of party.
angie has moved to the next step in mourning – she went past anger at some point (I wasn’t there when you stopped effing everyone off).
“you’re not the boss of me” works – it’s just a little tame for you.
Where is Regency?
btw — my being home from work has sparked up the day shift — they are all dropping “f*ck ‘ems” in their posts! LOL
I’ve only seen Brad here a couple times. The first time I was ready to flame and eject him until I found out he was making the movie.
He came out flaming BB on her post, and I held my tongue cuz of the movie.
That’s why I want to know where the movie is.
pop, I’m sure he has good ideas but it’s amazing that he doesn’t seem to understand how condescending he’s being since he’s done it many times now.
angie has moved to the next step in mourning – she went past anger at some point (I wasn’t there when you stopped effing everyone off).
“you’re not the boss of me” works – it’s just a little tame for you.
Where is Regency?
pop — that was a one day thing! I specifically said that I declared that “today I was going to use the work f*ck (or a derivative thereof) in every sentence.” It as because I was so damn mad at the results. Gosh, I’ve tarnished my reputation forever here. If I could quit myiq, I’d leave this place in shame.
“btw — my being home from work has sparked up the day shift — they are all dropping “f*ck ‘ems” in their posts! LOL”
LOL
Oh I remember that thread myiq. He too was chanelling the stereotypical all-knowing white liberal blogger who will explain other people’s experiences to them. Thank god that never gets old.
Seriously — his unawareness about how condescending he is reminds me of the poster who shall not be named.
I found it delightful and cathartic.
Just saw the thread– Brad came in like a bull in a china shop…
scrubs — Reg. hasn’t been around that much. Little Isis has fallen off the face of the earth since the election.
Ah yes.
It’s not like he says something and tehn immediately contracts amnesia. It’s right there in black and white, read it over, stop talking to people like they’re 3 and not very bright.
Seriously — I found it delightful & cathartic too. Sometimes there just isn’t a better word to express your feelings like ole reliable “f*ck”
More like a bully in a china shop
Rude and obnoxious is in my genes, so If I think you’re outta line, you gotta problem
angienc, on November 8th, 2008 at 6:05 am Said:
Gosh, I’ve tarnished my reputation forever here. If I could quit myiq, I’d leave this place in shame.
Tarnished?! You MADE a rep.
Hey angie – that poster guy who “shall not be named” was boasting about how right he was in his predictions and poll analyses over on NQ earlier. I wanted to barf.
Fuck him.
I even said something like “Conflucians don’t usually flame each other. We save that for the trolls”
myiq — you may have rude & obnoxious in your genes, but you also have sharp & witty. Brad Mays was being rude & obnoxious but dull and humorless. Big difference.
pop — I believe in the adage that the only thing worse then being talked about is NOT being talked about.
scrubs — he is so full of sh!t — there is still not liquidity in the markets. Or, if he is talking about the election itself — it was through fraud that BO got OH, PA, VA, NC & FL. He didn’t predict that.
Y’all don’t know the half of it about Senor Pompous Ass
Angie does, but there’s stuff that wasn’t made public.
Don’t bother asking what it is, cuz I ain’t telling.
Stupid celebrity Obots:
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20238779,00.html?xid=rss-topheadlines
NOW, how are you liking that fuckhead, Barack, Melissa? And how about you, Ellen? How do you feel about swooning over Michelle so much on your show (and presenting her with a sickening White House replica dog house?) Stupid, stupid people. Must have been all about the limelight. And I thought Ellen and Melissa were better than that.
FUCK them.
besides, I know stuff about him that I cannot discuss, but I will vouch for the fact that he is a pathetic, sad little man.
See, I’m getting into the spirit, too. I want angie’s reputation.
F*ck them is right, scrubs. I hope she doesn’t pay her taxes so the IRS can arrest her a$$ — you can get away with murder (and apparently voter fraud) in this country but no one gets away without paying their taxes. That’s how they got Capone forcrissake.
It’s one thing to rant about non-Conflucians or to flame trolls, but it’s another to come here and start being rude and offensive to the regulars.
When I get annoyed at someone here or disagree strongly, I go surfing the blogs for a while.
Usually when I’m pissed is when I choose my words very carefully.
My favorite episode with Senor was when he went on for about 2 months about the most traumatizing episode in his life–seeing a female body part. Little fragile, that guy.
So many of my favorite celebrities disappointed me this year.
Ah well, there’s still Orson Scott Card. He spoke out about the media bias.
Oh yeah–angie and myiq are SPECIAL! Fine, keep your secrets.
Damn, Seriously, I missed those episodes of Senor Fault’s World.
The fragility showed in some of the “inside Wall Street” posts as well. Actually, the narcissism showed more.
have I told you about my little hermaphrodite dog? He was born with male parts on the outside & ovaries on the inside.No one wanted him, but when I looked into that little freak’s eyes I knew he was one of us. I had to get him spayed & neutered. I named him Jacquismo, but call him Jack for short. My dad calls him JackandJill. LOL
Seriously, think about it. It related to madamab.
LOL! Angie! Lovin what your dad calls the dog – very insightful.
(I used to love that show, by the way.)
Senor Pompous Ass concluded that it was inevitible that Obama would win and thought we should all get in the Kool-aid conga line.
He was pissed and offended when we all said fuck no!
I felt bad for calling him a “little f*cking ray of sunshine” cuz that’s when he left.
A week or so later I felt bad for not saying more.
He’s the one who called me a “petulant clown” but not to my face.
not to be a snob, but most celebrities are very insecure people (which is why they need constant adoration) so they aren’t exactly people one should “listen to” when making political decisions.
scrubs–you missed the flashing episode? he whined about it for week, literally.
a ray of sunshine –
http://dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/11/07/director_relieved.html
Strickland puts director on leave in fundraising probe
Job and Family Services chief sidelined during investigation
Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland placed the director of the Department of Job and Family Services on paid leave today for possibly using a state computer and e-mail account for political fund-raising.
E-mails obtained today by The Dispatch show that Helen Jones-Kelley’s e-mail account was used to assist the presidential campaign of Democrat Barack Obama in raising money.
…
The state e-mails show Jones-Kelley provided the Obama campaign with the names of 17 potential Dayton-area contributors ahead of the candidate’s July 11 appearance there.
On July 8, the director offered to write a $2,500 check to the campaign to join Obama at his appearance, volunteered to contact would-be contributors and offered to help arrange an event for Michelle Obama, the candidate’s wife.
At least one of the potential donors identified by Jones-Kelley contributed $9,600 to Obama for America and the Obama Victory Fund on July 31, according to Federal Election Commission records. Jones-Kelley also gave $2,500.
…
After The Dispatch reported that state child-support computers were checked for potential information on Wurzelbacher, Jones-Kelley said checks are made on newsworthy figures that may have come into some money.
She later disclosed that state computers also were used to conduct checks to determine if Wurzelbacher was receiving welfare assistance or owed unemployment compensation taxes. Legislative Republicans suggested the checks were politically motivated, a charge denied by Strickland and Jones-Kelley.
Petulant sexy clown is what he meant — you know he wanted you, that is why he got so mad when you called him a “little f*cking ray of sunshine” you know.
Senor PA was only worried about being on the winning side.
I would rather be right than win.
“paid leave” — she’s happy as a clam about that — paid vacation. She needs to lose her job, I don’t care if Strikland is a Dem — right is right.
If you ever watch the special “celebrity” editions of Jeopardy or other game shows you’ll find out actors are DUMB
Joey Tribbiani is a rocket scientist compared to most.
Here, here, myiq!
And, angie, you are probably right about the petulant sexy clown thing.
I wonder if Senor was lurking when myiq had real pictures as his gravatar. If so, he was probably kicking himself in the head for not sticking around.
Anyway, zombies and twins: I had a long night on call last night and am about to totally pass out on you all. Catch you on the other side of my midnight.
I would rather be right than win.
Of course you would, myiq — that is one of your many endearing qualities. lol
Still fantasizing about an Electoral College save: if a lot of the campaign contributions are bad, is that a disqualifier?
Night scrubs!
I’m exhausted myself. Stupid little dog for messing up my sleep cycle! If she wasn’t so cute, I’d kick her out.
Night all.
Sweet dreams of me, myiq!
c-ya scrubs!
See you scrubs
Muchos besos, guapa!
bon soir mon amour.
I don’t think they can do anything but fine them now–that’s why the campaign put off the inquiries.
And since they can just get some more illegal contributions, no worries paying the fines.
Still fantasizing about an Electoral College save: if a lot of the campaign contributions are bad, is that a disqualifier?
*************************
No, because the electors are party hacks who are there to do as they’re told like robots. Constitutionally their vote is definitive.
We are not a “democracy” like everybody tells you.
There will be enough plausible deniability that Obama won’t be criminally liable.
At most they will have to return some money and maybe pay some fines.
I live in a Republic. Always have. Always will.
We are living in seriously weird times:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5105475.ece
“I jumped on a plane on Friday to volunteer for the Barack Obama campaign,” Mr Smith explained in a strong, if rather slurred, Brummie accent. “As an ill-advised promise, I’ve decided to say to my paper back home that I’d write about the American election.
“I wanted to be here because I’m here for history. The trouble is, the readers of the Birmingham Mail are going to get my version of history. And I’m just a little bit pissed…”
With a laugh and a clap of the hands, he added: “And thank god for the BBC, because I’m cutting and pasting, oh, baby!”
Not wanting to seem too unprofessional, he added: “I’m a proper news journalist.”
To pile further misery on his ignominy, Mr Smith ended the video by announcing: “My name is Adam Smith, also known as Steve Zacharanda, who has just resigned from the Birmingham Mail, the Birmingham Post and the Birmingham Sunday Mercury, to set up my own magazine…F**k you, I’m doing what I want.”
…
In a further comment left the next morning by Mr Smith on the YouTube page, he appeared to have sobered up significantly.
“Right, the thing is, right I’ve just woke up. And seen this video, which I don’t really remember. I’ve been told to phone the Birmingham Mail because I am in trouble.
“I was off duty, I am on official holiday working at the South Beach Miami Barack Obama campaign where I had just done a 18-hour shift trying to make the world a better place. Please check every BBC News outlet and see if I have cut and pasted anything. I have not, it was a joke and should be taken in the spirit it was said.”
In a follow-up video, filmed in the Obama campaign office, a more sober Mr Smith said he did not have a job anymore, and was “scared to speak to work” after phrases like “outrageous” and “bringing the company into disrepute” had been banded about.
Didja know that the Constitution doesn’t say you get to vote for President?
All it does is say how many electors each state gets. How those electors are selected is up to your state.
My last two posts have vanished, not even the usual “Your post is awaiting moderation”
I want one of these shirts, just to piss off Obots:
http://www.bustedtees.com/palinplumber2012
Pop:
Did you have links in ‘em?
Remember when FL threatened to have the state legislature select the electors back in 2000?
Less than 100 years ago Senators were elected by the state legislators.
Our founding fathers didn’t trust voters very much.
Yeah. Now I’ve lost the link.
Now for something completely different:
The Obots ca. 2010 learn there’s no such thing as a free lunch.
http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=IayHnA0cGuc
“They’re payin’ for it, you eat it!”
I wonder if they could have gotten away with it, considering they already had a mechanism in place and were proposing to throw it out and substitute a new mechanism after the fact.
Who are the electors and who selects them?
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/
Here’s the money quote from Newsweek:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/167582/page/3
Spooky. but we already knew that.
On the NARA site they list historical political parties:
[D] = Democrat
[D-LR] = Democrat-Liberal Republican
[D-P] = Democrat-Populist
[D-R] = Democrat-Republican
[F] = Federalist
[N-R] = National-Republican
[P] = Progressive [R] = Republican
[W] = Whig
miq
Amazing money quote indeed! Shows that the coverage tone came from above!
Meanwhile Wright is bitching
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/11/08/mean-media-made-wright-an-wmd/
The Age of Post-Journalism
http://patriotroom.com/?p=4052
Ok where on the last thread is Brad Mayes?
I think it’s farcical and entirely in keeping with this year, that after all the horrible misogyny….Barry does finally apologize ….but it’s to Nancy Regan and for a relatively speaking mild thing too. But also how fitting his first gaffe as PE would be a slam against a woman. His mistake was it was a Republican woman not Palin or a Dem. I know people say he’s smart ….so I guess it’s a case where he just can’t help himself .
Also I saw where the other Nancy said Health reform is off the table. They aren’t letting the Obots keep their rainbows and lolly pop dreams for long . I’m a small enough person to enjoy the sound of their heads exploding .
so his movie is going to be useless?
They aren’t letting the Obots keep their rainbows and lolly pop dreams for long…
I personally would like to see Barack put them on a chain gang. Sure, it’s unconstitutional, but I’m not getting all hung up on technicalities like that.
so his movie is going to be useless?
It’s irrelevant. It needed to come out during the campaign, as early as possible, to have any impact. Obama’s minions are chuckling at the project.
Okay, I am ready for this Historic Moment Crap to be over.
Afrocity, liberalism is all about screwed up thinking. Since this country didn’t do real justice to black people (forty acres and a mule) liberal dreamers love to traffic in supposed symbols of racial progress. A black president tops the symbols charts.
In other words, brace yourselves for a lot more of the same old same old…
[...] 8, 2008 · No Comments At the Confluence, myiq2xu, isolated the money quote from Newweek’s “Now it can be told” nasty trick on voters: “Curiously, though Obama [...]
myiq can you take me out of moderation? Sorry I said the R-word.
Afrocity me too…havent spoken to a single obat “friend” since the election….they are having lunch today but I probably will miss it.
Fuzzy,
I have so many Obots who called to gloat but I have not returned any messages.
My apologies, I should explain that “40 acres” refers to a plan of reparations for slavery that would have been (IMO) more meaningful and just than modern proposals. But it wasn’t done.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40_acres_and_a_mule
[...] the Confluence, myiq2xu, isolated the money quote from Newsweek’s “Now it can be told” nasty trick on voters: “Curiously, though Obama [...]
My apologies, I should explain that “40 acres” refers to a plan of reparations for slavery that would have been (IMO) more meaningful and just than modern proposals. But it wasn’t done.
And this crazy system won’t let me do the wikipedia link.
Of course when I do (speak to the Obat friends) it will be because I plan on calling them “post rational” in their support of a man who did not stand up for them. In regard to prop 8 and amend 2 Obama’s supporters said FU to the LGBT community.
I am truely post partisan now I guess!
See the failure of prop 8 and amend 2 keeps me safe from those taunts because my friends know Iwill rub it in their face.
I cant wait to drop that one on them and when they say it was the fundies and rethuglicans I will say if 40% + 1 vote had said NO to #2 then we would have been protected.
I will counter I expect them to vote yes on # 2 what i do not expect is my friends to vote down my rights.
Fuzzy,
I have left the democratic party. In fact I am leaving a lot of things.
fuzzy,
70% of blacks did not vote for it.
afro city 70% of blacks did not vote for what?
#2 Florida
or
Prop 8 California
both have constitutionally banned gay marriage in both states.
and it appears that in both states 66%+ of the AA vote went yes on both laws…
am I wrong on this?
Prop 8, at least that is what I heard that 70% AA’s said yes
that is true afrocity…I am sorry I missunderstood!
love your noe pic by the way!
After flaming PUMAs in a particularly vile manner on his blog, Senor PA went on to post on NoQ after BO won. I find that rather hypocritical. Should he be poting his columns on, say, DK?
Yes, why didn’t Brad Mays documentary come out when it would have made a difference?
As for the apology, why insult a woman in the first place? That man has a deep seated hatred for women.
What craving?? MORE OBAMA HUMOR…it will make him look like the complete idiot he is the more he tries it!!!
Obama Humor: Get Used to It! The Jerk Makes a “Careless and Offhanded” Joke About Nancy Reagan
http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com/2008/11/08/obama-humor-get-used-to-it-he-disses-nancy-reagan-in-an-attempt-at-making-a-joke/
I’m sure the film will be out on time to be a real blockbuster for the 2034 midterms…
Can anyone post the address of Garry’s blog please?
edgeoforever, it’s in the blogroll and here: http://garychapelhill.wordpress.com/
Thanks! kinda self-explanatory!
Hi everyone. I haven’t been here the past couple days, because I’m sorry to say, a good friend of mine passed away. I also refuse to accept what happened on Tuesday. It isn’t real, right? The American people are not reckless idiots right? As if we haven’t suffered enough from seeing his image projected everywhere 24/7, I realized that now it will be even worse. In the hospital room, the TV was blaring ABC News, and I was subjected to a vicious attack on Paiin and then glowing lights surrounding the anointed one as he walked on stage with the family. I feel so alienated. What are people thinking…or not thinking is more like it? The lesson from this election: marketing and propaganda are king.
Greta is having Palin on Monday night. The post on Drudge actually said that Barbara Walters & Oprah tried to get the interview too. Yea, like she really wants to talk to those two raving Bots.
Gone again for the weekend, but I will be back Conflucians. Where else is there to go???
I think we should be grateful that Brad decided to even make a movie about the faux primary season. No one else offered and he isn’t going to get a lot out of it. It was impossible to make the film in three months. Instead of making snarky remarks why not be appreciative that someone listened and decided to do a documentary about it. It is still better than nothing.
G’mornun!
I love to wake up and see someone who wasn’t there criticizing stuff that I said
Downticket – I might be a lot more sympathetic to Brad if he hadn’t come here and insulted me.
Hey, i found this photo of Tweety after celebrating victory
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/11/08/heres-to-tweety/
It’s not a matter of blaming Brad, but for enemies of this blog the movie has become the cinematic equivalent of the bridge to nowhere.
What do I want? In one word, Justice. I’m not holding my breath.
Everyone should read this about how Obama stole the election:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/167582/page/1
There will be some analysis & discussion later so consider it your homework assignment
angienc -
What good is the film going to do now?
The film was never intended to be a political instrument, something with which to defeat Obama, although I do understand that many felt that that’s what its function should have been. It is a film about the PUMA movement itself. There is some incredibly moving stuff we captured in Washington DC, Denver and elsewhere. There were times when I myself was in tears behind the camera, and that is not something that happens very often.
Anyway, from the beginning I told Murphy that the film was to be aesthetic, not didactic, in purpose. Which is to say that while its subject is political, its function is artistic. What fascinates me about some of the comments made about me in this thread is how very much like comments I’ve made in private about some PUMAs (not Murphy or Riverdaughter Mama PUMA or Dances or any of the wonderful individuals I’ve counted as friends) and their tendency to try and dictate what my film should be and what it should say. I tend to write that stuff off, however, as the bi-product of of their passions, while in here my comments are regarded as the direct manifestation of brutal assholery.
So back to the question, “What good is the film going to do now?”
I’m not sure, really. I do know that I’ve spend many hundreds of hours on it, without any real payment. I know that I’ve had equipment stolen and that I take the film’s subject – you and the PUMA movement at large – very seriously. I do know that the film with be a loving though objective portrait of a movement that sprung up out of necessity and achieved some pretty amazing things.
Some of you will love it and some of you will hate it. Which means I suppose my film will fare much better in here than I do.
GODDESS RADIO
click here to listen http://audio.cygnusradio.com:8000/cyg1_hi.m3u
or copy paste that link into your player where it says play url
All I know is that twice now I have bit my tongue cuz of that movie. if I’m gonna chew my tongue into hamburger I want to see something in return.
I thought Brad had legitimate questions on that thread yesterday; the fact is that nobody forced HRC to campaign for Obama. However, there’s a penalty to be paid for going against hero worship and groupthink, and Brad paid it. But he gives as good as he gets.
miqx2u -
Sorry about your tongue. Movies take time to edit. Lots of time. Give your teeth and tongue a rest. The film will be ready somewhere around the first of the year.
My teeth and tongue don’t need a rest, thank you
Brad, my brother in law (a film editor) has worked on films where the editing took years. So I’m not surprised that your film isn’t finished yet.
I’m looking forward to seeing it when it’s done.
If the film provides a truthful account of what happened during this campaign ; it might serve the purpose of being a vehicle for presenting an opposing viewpoint to history being rewritten to favor bo’s “selection” . That of course is a big IF
swanspirit, on November 8th, 2008 at 10:01 am Said:
Thanks for my Eva fix!
Is that Rahm Emmanuel in the middle of that picture?
paper doll , you are so very welcome … it is mine as well
swanspirit, on November 8th, 2008 at 10:18 am
Exactly. If it’s all left up the MSM, the history will be PUMA who? and Hillary’s role will be reduced to Bill Richardson’s.
Brad sorry if I sounded critical but maybe your movie will get people to stop and think-about what happened!
It would be truely nice if it came out right when Obama’s poll numbers started to slp!
Good luck in your endeavor!
Brad,
You may recall that you and I have tangled in the past-it was rather unpleasant and it was the first time I had any sort of altercation here with anyone.
I must say your communication style can be shocking and abrasive.
While you might be a big ole teddy bear IRL, you can come on pretty strong in this medium, IMO.
Try and be nice. People perceive your comments as attacks. It’s upsetting. Lots of people disagree here without insulting each other.
Also I’d like to say that PUMApac may have helped give the impression that your film was to be released much earlier and in time to make a difference before the election.
I remember being invited to a screening in Boston months ago and hearing that the film was “almost finished.” I donated money to PUMApac at that time, as I thought it would help get some info out to the public.
Peace,
catarina
swanspirit -
And why wouldn’t the film be truthful? Do you think I would travel all across the country, during a very hot summer, to tell a lie? But yes, I have promised to create something of historical value. That’s what I’ve told Murphy and that’s what I’m telling you.
Why yes dakinikat I do believe it is !!!!!! Yuu are very observant !!
Swannie:
The movie isn’t going to be instructional or informational, it will be a sensory contemplation or appreciation of PUMA
johninca – where did you get the hero worshipping of Hillary from? No one was hero worshipping her.
Brad?? did you just live thru this election??? Maybe I am just hyper-sensitive to tilt ,slant, and bias
I think a movie that documents that there was and is a PUMA movement is a good thing. We affected the election. We don’t know exactly how many votes we took away from BO, but enough that McCain was always a possibility and was competition, something Obama hates. And McCain made overtures, saying his cabinet would have more women in it than any in history. We also are evidence of opposition before Obama was elected so when there is opposition afterwards and outcries like “why didn’t we know” we show it was possible to know if one looked. So I look forward to the movie, Brad.
We should be proud. Among my friends, I am the only one who saw Obama as anti-gay, and I have only convinced one person of this–all the rest remain true believers, but I learned my info here at the Confluence and went to look for more. Thanks to everyone!
I don’t believe it’s Brad’s fault, but we got the impression that the movie would have a political impact which it just won’t have, at least for this campaign.
We’re all looking at the political implications of the film while Brad’s looking at it from the standpoint of his craft– sort of like a journalist saying, “hey, I’m just here to cover the flood, not pull anyone out of the water.”
catarina -
I spoke yesterday with my wife Lorenda about yesterday’s thread and she agrees with many of you that my communication style doesn’t work particularly well in this place. The weird thing for me is that while I’ve been accused of being condescending, in reality I have nothing but respect for the vast majority of the people who post in here and have never considered anyone here to be less intelligent than I am. Nor do I presume to tell anyone in here how to think or what to think.
So I’ve pretty much decided to accept the situation for what it is. Oddly, one weekend in early September I addressed some questions (about the film I’m doing) that appeared in another forum – a forum that is anti-”you-know-what.” I did my best to be polite and answer their concerns truthfully, and was treated with pretty much the same level of hostility that I get here.
Which is fine.
myiq2xu, on November 8th, 2008 at 9:59 am
Just read the first two lines and couldn’t handle it. I don’t want to read their praises of how Obama ran the best campaign EVER. I will wait for your analysis
Downticket, excuse me. This whole movement believes Obama won on fraud and vote stealing. Hillary told you to vote for the fraud and vote stealer. She wasn’t forced to do it, she just did it. That makes her an accomplice of a vote stealer. The refusal to acknowledge this fact constitutes hero worship– at best.
myiq2xu …and I mean that …
sensory ??? How can you avoid facts ? Wont the facts get in the way of that?
Brad … Why are we being reduced to feelings?
let me drag out my suthern accent heah …
So we Pumas will be bawwled down to bein a big ol mess o feelins??
kinda like PUMA Stew?? hmm I dunno if i like that much
Because the inellectual value of what the PUMAS have contributed and continue to contribute has been some of the ONLY clear light shed on this recent campaign .
if no one is happy with your film then you probably did a good job….and were probably fair to all sides in this struggle I will hold judgement until I get a chance to see it.
that is from one big ol’ teddy bear to another
This is exactly why I feel it is important to have this movie for history purposes. He didn’t win fairly. He was selected not elected!
sadly johninca you may be right I have left hillary behind for now I will again reserve judgement!
hoping for the good of the party if obie is at 21% in 2011 he will have his lyndon johnson moment…hopefully forced on him by us!
swanspirit -
Who is reducing you or anyone else to feelings? myiq2xu doesn’t have the least f*cking idea of what he’s talking about vis-a-vis my film, so don’t use him as a barometer.
I filmed many interviews with PUMA members and have captured lots of dialectical discussions which are intellectually stimulating. But the film ITSELF is not didactic.
I wrote a blog some weeks ago trying to articulate whqt I’m trying to do with “The Audacity Of Democracy.”
Go here if you want to read it:
http://bradmaysfilmmaker.wordpress.com/
I think Heidi Li should write a book about the campaign for sure . We need history from PUMA, rather than just about PUMA.
johninca, – I am certain if you go back and read you will see that I said I didn’t believe Hillary was forced to campaign for Obama. I am sure I am not alone on this. Plenty of us don’t agree with Hillary supporting Obama. I can understand why she feels she has to but I don’t agree with it. I don’t think that makes me a hero worshipper, does it?
Brad,
One of the reasons I spoke up is that my communication style can also be abrasive and it’s something I’ve had to work on a lot.
I’m actually so sensitive that if I hurt someone’s feelings I’m horrifed and feel terrible. I’m not trying to lecture you-I feel for you, really.
I don’t think you’re treated with hostility here. I’ve observed some of your comments that were just brutal and caused others to close ranks and support the people they were aimed at.
Hostility is not “fine”-it sucks for you and for the people you are communicating with. Are kinder, gentler, and more civil comments a possibility?
re: the film. I can’t find the email about the screening but I really had the impression the documentary was to be released and soon. I told a lot of people it was in the works. Since then I’ve wondered what happened.
Well Brad, since I just used the dictionary definitions of the words YOU used to describe your film, why don’t you please enlighten us as to what the f*ck you are talking about when you say it won’t be didactic (instructional or informational) but will be asthetic (sensory) in purpose?
BRAD … HEY FUCKING HEY !!! I am one of those underpaid women …….
I work my ass off so I sometimes miss a thread or two I was just ASKING … dont cuss at ME for askin …
and myiq2xu has contributed some incisively astute observations aong the way so I will consider what he and all the rest of the contributors to this blog have to say thanks very much ….cheesh testy arent you ??
I also happen to be doing my radio show simultaneously with typing to this blog
so if you want to hear what I might have to say be sure and tune in
GODDESS RADIO
click here to listen http://audio.cygnusradio.com:8000/cyg1_hi.m3u
or copy paste that link into your player where it says play url
Downticket, I didn’t accuse you specifically of hero worship, but I have certainly come across people who just don’t seem to grasp the enormity of what HRC has done.
I realize that passions are high and many here loved HRC, but they have to look at what she has done. She started out as the victim, but by telling us to vote for Obama she joined the perpetrators.
I just looked at bb’s Misogyny thread. She juxtaposes the treatment of HRC with that of a girl who was stoned after being raped.
That is preposterous enough, but then she talks about HRC being forced to make appearances for Obama. That is completely false, something that Brad noticed yesterday.
I would go further and say that HRC endorsed for the presidency a man who was deeply involved with a vote stealing operation. I know it’s painful for fans of HRC to acknowledge it, but there comes a time when facts have to be acknowledged for what they are.
To compare HRC with a girl who was raped and then stoned is an insult to our intelligence.
myiq2xu -
While film is a sensory medium, what it may or may not seek to instill in the viewer will ultimately define its PURPOSE. Consider the play MARAT/SADE, (since your photo certainly seems to have been inspired by some of the inmates depicted in that particular piece): we are confronted onstage with levels of dialectic. The first, and most obvious, is the dialectic between the French Revolutionary Marat and Atheistic Libertine De Sade. They discuss art, philosophy, religion, destiny, etc.
The second dialectical level is a matter of theatrical style, basically Brecht (of didatic “epic theatre” fame) vs. Antonin Artaud (of “theatre of cruelty” fame). Thus, the audience is jolted between a multitude of realities as they watch the play unfold.
The play is aesthetic in it’s purpose, but its themes are not comprehensible only through the audiences emotions – their intellects must be engaged as well.
You asked.
Now, is “The Audacity Of Democracy” the stylistic cousin of “Marat/Sade?” Of course not. But you can see where a dictionary definition of art might tend to fall a bit short.
Let’s say PUMAs do get reduced to “feelings” in the film, which I am not sure will happen b/c we haven’t seen it—well, then we know that we have been simply portrayed as “Hillary Hags” and that’s nothing new. If Brad does that, it won’t be art. We have already been labeled as irrational, deranged, hysterical, menopausal (how’s that feel to the guys on this blog, I wonder?). But if “feeling” means passion, then the intellectual caliber of our movement must come through. I have read posts here that I consider as good as or better than any published political commentary in terms of writing style and intellectual content. Some has actually met the level of political philosophy, and I don’t say that lightly.
let’s just hope Brad is a little nicer to PUMA’s in his film than he’s been here.
sorry, Brad!
chimera -
Damn! You nailed me! Yes, I intend to portray all of you as Hillary Hags! Curses, foiled again!
Back to the drawing board in my evil lair of brutality!
Brad:
You can’t bullshit a bullsitter.
That’s bullshit
myiq2xu
Bullshit? I don’t think so. I directed an award-winning production of Marat/Sade in Los Angeles in 2000, and I did lots of research into the piece, its origins and dramaturgical devices. I also unearthed the original verse translation used by the Royal Shakespeare Company in their inaugural production of the play (rather than use the published version everyone else uses).
Dramaturgy is my stock in trade. I don’t deal in bullshit.
Just like our friend Mandos, when called out on bullshit Brad kicks it up a notch, using references and jargony terms to try to leave his questioner confused and unable to respond.
Didactic means informational or instructional while aesthetic deals with sensory or emotional values.
Brad has stated that his film will not be informational or instructional (as a historical documentary would naturally be) but will be a sensory and emotional work dealing with PUMA.
When I ask him to explain he doesn’t give a simple answer, he gives one that is complex and non-responsive.
johninca – you aren’t one of those that blames Hillary for McCain’s loss are you? Hillary campaigning for Obama as much as she did was wrong but hell no way is it her fault that McCain lost.
myiq2xU -
My answer is both responsive and absolutely to the point. You’re trying to define a film you haven’t seen, as well as reduce a statement I made to something simplistic. You’re trying to own this discussion right now, but you’re not up to the task.
Look, I came in here today with a friendly response to some rather nasty posts being made about me. I’m keeping it civil. But don’t take me on in my area of expertise unless your guns are fully loaded.
Dt, I said nothing about blaming HRC for McCain’s loss because the thought hadn’t occurred to me.
I merely said it was wrong for her to support Obama, regardless whether or not her actions had any effect on the outcome of the general election.
Marat/Sade?:
Are PUMAs the inmates or the nurses and supervisors?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marat/Sade
I’m not trying to define anything, I’m asking you to define it.
BTW – my guns are loaded and my powder is dry
Whoah, that picture of the zombies reaching out reminds me of a scene I saw in Jesus Christ Superstar. It still frightens me to this day. The message in the scene being, this is the price you pay for being a messiah, adoration at first, but then your followers turn on you with their demands for a pound of flesh.
johninca – agree that it was wrong to do that. I don’t want Obama to get away with what he did and still find it hard to believe how much she is willing to turn a blind eye to. As said I understand her reasons but don’t agree.
myiq2xU -
Neither. Tommy Christopher is Marat and Murphy is de Sade. Obots are the inmates and you guys are the nurses and supervisors.
Want more?
Chris Mathews is Coulmier and Riverdaughter is Jacques Rou.
Christ*na from that not-to-be-mentioned site is Charlotte Courday.
You, alas, are Mad Animal.
Brad Mays,
Hi, sorry if you saw some bad posts about you, I must have missed them. I hadn’t heard any update on the film as of the last request for people for LA.
One interesting point is the ushering of CHANGE, while others are left behind (prop 8 in California and the other anti gay props). As you know many within our group early on sensed this attitude and felt that women were minimized/demonized (nutcrackerized…in Hillary’s case) and that there really wasn’t any support for the LBG community. If there had been any propositions against women I feel they too would have passed.
At at rate, just wanted to say hello, having met you in person in D.C. Take care
Brad , how can you be objective if you are taking on attitides toward some of us??
swanspirit -
That’s the same question asked of me by this site’s enemy, Chr*stina” and her blog readers.
That’s a hard question to answer, but filmmaking involves so many moving parts and so many decisions at so many points along the process that, if objectivity is your goal, it’s a pretty simple thing to achieve it. It’s actually easier to be objective, perhaps, because one is not constantly trying to torture footage into meaning what you want it to mean.
But it’s not my purpose to convince you or anyone else in here that I’m being “objective.” The film will speak for itself.
The people who voted for obama are just the type of people the dnc was counting on. They knew that the people voting for hillary were able to actually research and study the candidates without accepting what was put in front of them. That’s why they didn’t try to have us come back and support obama. We will never be address by the obama administration. What will happen if all his supporters dreams are not fulfilled? What if he doesn’t pay their mortgage…or their gas…or if they actually have to pay taxes? Their dreams will be shattered. The sad part of all of this is…we had a make believe president for 8 years…and now we have another.