The world continues to be in a state of flux. Stock markets are down again. It seems that even with all the new cash flowing into the banks, the bankers are reluctant to lend.
The debate last night was “lively”, or so says the New York Times, which seems to be reluctantly giving the edge to John McCain.
Senator John McCain was in a groove early in the presidential debate on Wednesday night, looking Senator Barack Obama in the eye and chiding him over taxes, over his backbone in standing up to Democrats and over the Obama campaign’s portrayal of Mr. McCain as the second coming of George W. Bush.
It looked like Mr. McCain might, just might, raise the level of his game in throwing Mr. Obama off his — Mr. McCain’s essential goal 20 days before the election, as he seeks a comeback in the face of declining poll numbers in battlegrounds like Pennsylvania and Virginia.
That’s as far as the praise went. In the next paragraph, Healy starts up the narrative about how “angry” and “tetchy” McCain was.
But it is some of us in the blogging community that are getting tetchy. Some of us are starting to lose our nerve. It’s disconcerting to be a committed, progressive Democrat who absolutely can’t stand her own party nominee. It makes one question one’s loyalties and commitments. We’ve witnessed some of our friends going nova in our emails in a most spectacular way. It seems to be a case of rationalization that if we at The Confluence can’t get behind Barry and are simply stating some uncomfortable truths, that we must not be progressive anymore. This is not the case. We aren’t losing our religion. We’re standing our ground. We are not rewarding the bad behavior of the party that cut 18 million voters out of the decision making process and awarded the nomination to a man with no experience or qualifications but who has a knack for eliminating his opponents in underhanded and devious ways.
He has ruined Hillary Clinton’s political career. It is time we faced up to this fact. She could run again but doing it a second time will be very difficult. A lot of people supported her and donated money to her only to see her undermined by her own party. It was just too close, too heartbreaking to want to experience that again. We don’t really understand the dynamics about why the party turned on her in the first place, at least not completely. Obama decided to run and he wasn’t too concerned whether he was ready or whether Hillary was the better candidate. He exercised his male prerogative to go for it and the rest of the party fell in line. The rest of the country may be ready for a female president but it is becoming more and more obvious that the party is not.
This reality doesn’t make me want to give up, however. It makes me want to deliver a blow to the party in November that is so powerful that they get the message. It’s wrong to turn on your voters. It’s wrong to manipulate primary election results. It’s wrong to allow one of your party loyalists to be trashed in the media by sexism and misogyny. It’s wrong to allow racism to be used as a weapon. It’s wrong to allow your nominee to ditch the party brand name to reach out to appeal to evangelical voters. So much of what has gone on this year in the party is reactionary and corrupt that we can not let it go unchecked or we will lose the only organization we have for standing up for those Democratic principles we cherish.
So, to those of you who are wrestling with your consciences and are looking for someone to blame for your discomfort, don’t point your fingers at us who have the courage of our convictions. Take a look at the superdelegates who abandoned us, and their own party’s values, for a man who threatens to call them racists if they don’t fall in line. A man who treats his party and his party’s voters with so little respect deserves no one’s vote.
Heidi Li has a new ad from Democrats for Principle before Party. She’s closing in on her fundraising goal. Let’s give her some help. You can donate here.
Filed under: Presidential Election 2008 | Tagged: Democrats for principle before party ad, final debate







I’m standing my ground. I finally had the “talk” with one of my sisters who lives in an upper class neighborhood in Essex county, here in NJ. I told her the reasons why I am unaffiliated and will not be voting for Obama because of the behavior of the DNC and Obama’s lack of experience/integrity. She was pleading with me not to vote for McCain for the sake of the country, for the sake of her children. She was getting to the point of near hysterics, so I said that I wasn’t sure what I was going to do on Election Day – we were in a car dealership waiting for paperwork to be done and I didn’t have the heart to see her have a meltdown there.
I feel sorry for her – she is totally a Whole Foods Nation woman who considers herself a liberal and she is quietly panicking at the thought that Obama might not get into the White House.
This long-time once-Democrat just cannot believe what has happened to my former party. I always believed the Dems represented me, as I am an educator as well as a small-business owner (tutoring using my own book). But now I am also an independent who will be voting for McCain-Palin this year. What my former party did to Hillary is just criminal!!
Woa – I’m actually first?
Riverdaughter I believe this is your strongest piece ever – I stand firmly alongside you with every word, and stand ready to do what we must to regain our party.
The superdelegates, IMO, were wrong! They should have never been allowed to cast their endorsement before the public had voted – they skewed things and gave the DNC the support they didn’t deserve.
RD:
I think that you do a great job on your blog, and if it’s ok, I have a question for you. I’ve asked this question on a number of other pro-Hillary/PUMA blogs, and if you or any of your readers want to take a stab at it, I’d be appreciative.
Of the 18 million who voted for Hillary, how many do you think will pull the lever for McCain, how many will go for Obama, and how many will go third party/not vote for the top of the ticket? I’ve had estiamtes that range from 10% to 40% going for McCain.
For myself, I’m not really happy with any of the choices, but the hatred, mysogeny (sp?), sexism, and filth coming from the Obama supporters makes my decision easy. FWIW, I’m a registered Repub. in NYC, so my vote is pretty much a waste, although my views can be pretty liberal depending on the issue.
Great points. The only people who can be comfortable this political season are the “strategists” – the cynical plotters of ways to win elections.
Activists, believers can be blind, angry like us or uncomfortable, trying to be blond. I don’t envy either the first or the third category – reality will strike sooner or later.
I started today to write about the media making Obama into Reagan – which I had noticed since Ge started. I was startled to discover that it started way before the election, and never stopped
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/10/16/obama-as-reagan-teflon-makers-try-again/
When I heard Obama’s interview on Reagan was my first moment of “discomfort” with him. It all went downhill since.
Oh, not first
oh, well, I’m here – Delphyne – I’m here in Essex County NJ too – and have been having that same conversation with my sister-in-law who lives in VA Beach, VA – but when I told her my intention was to vote Dem downticket to keep a balance in our government she softened – her fears were for Roe vs. Wade – I pointed out to her that if the Republicans wanted to get rid of it – they could have since they were in complete power Bush’s first four years and have run amok these last four. She agreed and I do see her coming around – I too am an independent – stepping away from the Democratic Party when Hill suspended her campaign.
I found my heart drop a bit in reading RDs piece this morning because it was the first that I too realized that Hill may never run again for Pres – although she would have my wholehearted support if she did.
I’m watching the debate now on tape.
So far, this has stood out for me:
- Obama supports tort reform! That’s disgusting. The courts are our last defense against corporate abuse. Corporatist stooge!
- McCain refuses to throw his rally-goers under the bus. Yeah!
- JM: “Facts are facts and records are records.”
Help! I’m in moderation and they’er piping in “Obama will lead us” on the PA.
I have said many times that I plan on being a “Republican for a Day” on November 4, but to be perfectly honest, I can’t see myself returning to the Democrat party unless there is an extreme makeover of the party. I can’t see that happening even if Obama is defeated in November. I think the entrenched party elite will roll their eyes and smirk, just like Obama did in the debate last night, and convince themselves that it was r@cism that defeated Obama.
The Deanocrats need to face the fact that it has nothing to do with r@cism. We’re just not into you! I am voting for process this year. The Republicans elected their nominee through a fair and democratic process in which each person’s vote counted as one vote. The Democrats ignored the will of the voters and put forth their selection, telling voters that the party knows best. I’m standing firm. Country before party. McCain/Palin, ‘08.
btw, good ad, Heidi.
Good morning, everyone! I see that a lot of O-bots voted in the pol last night. Or maybe one O-bot vote 100 plus times? I wonder why they come here if we are so irrelevant.
I’m with you all the way Riverdaughter. I won’t reward the thuggish behavior that got Obama the nomination even though he peaked in February. Hillary will very likely be relegated to the Senate now, as Teddy Kennedy was after he challenged Jimmy Carter.
Good morning bb! The bots were out in force last night, stinking up every blog I visited. I can only conclude that they are in full panic mode.
janicen,
A little while ago, I heard Stephanie Cutter (former Kerry campaign mgr, now working for BO) on Fox News. She certainly was in “full panic mode.” She was really freaked out over the ACORN issue to the point that she was really shrieking. I mean, she sounded like she needed to a sedative. I was only listening on the radio–I hate to think what her face looked like.
Anglachel has a terrific post up dealing with Bill Ayers, the authoritarian left, and the cover-up of the anti-Clinton hysteria from “Democrats.” Even Paul Krugman is particpating now.
From Anglachel (I won’t provide a link, because I don’t know if she wants us “racists” to link to her)
Janicen, I agree, I think they broke the party to the point that we may not be able to fix it. And frankly I really won’t want much to associate with the likes of Pelosi, Dean, Reid, Kerry, etc. We need to clean house – really really, well!
“We’re standing our ground.” Riverdaughter
What a great post! This sentence is a rallying cry for those of us who are fed up with the hypocrisy and the hatred we’ve witnessed (and personally experienced) during this election. Thanks to this and other pro-HRC sites, I know that integrity is alive and well in the U.S. Whether Hillary runs again or not, this is her legacy and we can all be proud of that and of having supported her.
Still watching the debate. McCain said Obama is for single-payer health care. That’s a lie. If Obama was for single-payer I might consider voting for him.
JM: Joe (the plumber), you’re rich! Congratulations.
LOL, that was snarky.
bb: True enough. I keep wondering why, if ACORN is no problem, why is it engendering full panic mode? If the Obama campaign has such a great ground game, ACORN’s snafus should be of little consequence.
RD, I’d like to think that this is not the end of Hillary’s chances at the WH. I feel she was energized and changed by the primaries. She will go on to do great things including another run at the WH.
I agree that it FEELS like Hill’s career in presidential politics is over, and she might be retiring to pasture in the senate.
BUT this insecure time of the whole world being in flux in so many ways— it can present unexpected situations that would change perceptions in a heartbeat! I am glad that Hillary is still here, because who knows what the future may bring?
I just hope that Hillary will stand up to BO if he does get elected. I have to admit I’m troubled by her touting his health care plan. I’d feel more confident if McCain were President. Then there might be a possibility of some of the Dems standing up to him. Even then, I don’t really trust them. They’ve stabbed us in the back on torture, spying, Patriot Act, bankruptcy, and on and on.
if anyone needs a reminder as to why Obama should not get your vote, trot on over to Reclusive Leftist, spend 20 minutes watching the videos on the caucus fraud (be sure and take your blood pressure medicine first), and then go ahead and try to pull the lever for BO….
betcha can’t do it…
I will never forget what was done to Hillary and half the party…. never.
I totally agree with you, janicen. I will always be a Liberal but the Dems have made it abundantly clear that they will continue to take us for granted. Unless we can reform the party in a major way, I will never be a Democrat again. Independents seem to get the most pandering anyway so that would be nice for a change.
I am heartsick about what they did to Hillary, RD. She will get over it long before I will. You are right that the stars won’t align again for for her and I will never forgive BO for letting his ego override the country’s need for a competent leader in these trying times.
I think Acorn is such a problem because people are going to jail. Lots of ‘em.
Excellent post RD! What a great way to start our day.
I hope that our quiet revolution will be a wake up call to the Democratic Party but honestly I think the odds are slim. Obama has clearly not reached out to us. And neither has the DNC. We can only assume it’s because they consider us insignificant. They’ve pretty much told us that they just don’t need us.
So, for me, I’m going to take my vote and put it toward the 30% solution. Maybe when my granddaughter grows up her gender will have full representation. And I hope with all my heart that she never has to watch smart, talented and attractive candidates maligned in such an ugly, sexist way as we have seen in this campaign.
The Debate post is the Hawt post on wordpress, so there are tons of trolls descending on it.
“It looked like Mr. McCain might, just might, raise the level of his game in throwing Mr. Obama off his”
I continue to be amazed at thte total abandonment of all pretense of unbiased reporting and journalism.
I know, I know. Old news. But I am flabbergasted none-the-less
The link to donate to Heidi Li didn’t work for me. Can I just go to her site and pay?
If Obama doesn’t win, I think that Hillary will get all of her pre-campaign-suspension strength back. His loss will be an awesome endorsement for her and for the truth of the hideous uncovered misogyny that had been hidden in the American psyche.
This IS the time for a protest vote because the Repubs did the unthinkable and put a woman on the ticket. Who’s sexist now, Pal?
Paul not Pal-could be either. lol.
I agree Joan. NOW is the perfect time for a protest vote. The Republicans even made it EASY for us by putting a man with a RECORD of working across the aisle on top of their ticket with a bright, young star (who happens to be a WOMAN) as his running mate. Hey, thanks red team! I truly appreciate that you folks offered us some shelter in this storm of an election year.
This post by edgeofforever on Obama as Reagan is excellent!
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/10/16/obama-as-reagan-teflon-makers-try-again/#comment-4583
Elixir, on October 16th, 2008 at 8:47 am Said:
RD, I’d like to think that this is not the end of Hillary’s chances at the WH. I feel she was energized and changed by the primaries. She will go on to do great things including another run at the WH.
Was Hillary energized – I think so but changed no. She is still the same old Hillary. She won’t run again if Obama wins and there is also no certainty that she would if McCain wins. As RD stated above, Obama has ruined Hillary Clinton’s political career. It was hard enough for her the first time, the second time will be worse. Some of the trust she had gotten during the primary will be gone. Obama will leave a very bad stain on her career. The Democratic leadership has undermined her too much. For a guy that might be ok but a woman that is baaaad. She will be looked upon as weak. Nothing has really changed. Hillary has gone back to the senate to continue doing her work just like before. There is no change. It is all the same.
If Obama wins the DNC will from now on continue picking the Democratic Party’s presidential nominees.
My best friend, a former Republican, complains that he didn’t leave his party–his party left him. That’s how I feel about the Dems. May 31, 2008 gave me the freedom to realize that for years I’d been telling myself–and others–that the Dems stood for the real values of the American voters. Unfortunately, the majority of Dems have shown that they only stand for cadging enough money to be re-elected.
Iraq war votes? FISA votes? UHC? Supreme Ct. nominees? Women’s rights? We’ve given them so many chances, and only a handful have stood for our traditional values. So no more being suckered in for me. I hope there are others–women the age of RD–who will pick up the banner at this point and fight for change within the party. If they do, I will back them wholeheartedly. But I’m at the tail end of my life, and my personal crusades are behind me now.
As for Hillary, it has occurred to me for sometime now that it would be difficult for her to run in 2012 because that year also coincides with the year she comes up for re-election to the Senate. I haven’t wanted to bring up that point before because it seemed so important to everyone here, and on some other blogs, to believe that the stars would finally align for her then. I just don’t know. But I’m grateful to RD for bringing up the possibility that it just may not happen. If it doesn’t, the American people are truly the losers.
RD, you know I love you, but I have to somewhat disagree with you on the point that Obama ruined Hillary’s career – I think it will strengthen her political power. She has emerged as a populist leader of the people by the poeple and for the people.
If anything Obama ruined HIS CAREER. He’ll never be able to run again after this election. She still has a chance to make the case in 2012 if McCain wins.
The way to mitigate that feeling you have is if enough rank and file Democrats bring Obamacrats to their knees. It will be the biggest “I told you so” moment when they’ll see that Obama DID NOT win the hearts & minds of the majority of the party like Hillary did in the primaries. There are millions of stealth PUMAs out there that will bring the death Knell to an Obama controlled Dem party.
As far as Roe v Wade is concerned, I was very sasitfied with McCain response on SCOTUS’s will protect the Constitution and the office will not be used at a litmus test. His answer was MUCH BETTER than Obama’s who believe’s that a woman should consult her male “owners” before making a medical decision. Barf!!!!!!
Hillary will RISE and bloom from this experience.
Finished watching the debate.
Can I just say that I HATE that when the wives came on stage MO was in all blue dress and CM was in an all red dress. Visually they turned into accessories of their husbands. UGH UGH UGH.
If Hillary was their instead of BO, would Bill have come on stage in an all-blue suit. Of course not.
I hate this sexist world.
Please get me out of moderation!
The DNC wouldn’t have dared to do what they did if it was a different year. They sure the Republicans will not going to put a fight this year, that why they allowed Mccain to be the runner in the first place. He doesn’t represents the conversatives very well. so it is up to the Dem to put up the fight. who knows may the forces of Good will win.
Obama was pushed to the head of the line becuse it looked like Rezko was going to sing and poof went Blagojevich’s aspirations.
The Dem leadership didn’t care who it was as long as it had a certain appendage up front.
After all the last thing Dean, Kerry, Kennedy and Reid wanted is for a woman to go where they failed. And Nancy? We had a female cat like her, queen of the roost and no others allowed.
Hillary’s chances are only ruined if the Dems get the White House. If you like the direction the party has taken then by all means vote Obama.
SM,
Call me a cockeyed optimist, but I still think Obama is going to lose.
SM77: Hear, hear!
Tort reform!?!?! That has forever and ever been a Republican (and I mean a Newt Gingrich-Republican, not an Olympia Snowe-Republican) meme. But I suppose the obots will think it’s just nifty.
Whatever happens — whether Obama wins or loses, whether Clinton runs again or not, long-term the Obama faction of the party won’t last. I really just realized this yesterday.
Just think of the bizarre juxtoposition of events that allowed the weak-brained faction of the Democratic party to win this year. Obama’s creepy charisma, gaming the caucuses, voter fraud and intimidation, the opportunity to cheat with MI and FL, Obama’s exploitation of the r*ce card and misogyny at the same time, the collusion of Congressional Blue Dogs, and the timing with regard to the nadir of the Republican brand. Most of these circumstances are not repeatable.
If Obama hadn’t been in the race, John Edwards would have been the Dean-side, Stevensonian candidate. Kerry was their candidate. Dean was their candidate. Carter was their candidate. Except for this year and this extraordinary constellation of events, it’s the faction of perpetual failures.
And the Democrats will fritter away their ‘win’, if they have one, by sucking on the economy. They own the meltdown now, having led the charge for the trillion dollar giveaway. Their own incompetence will doom them.
Of course, it’s enraging when we think of what might of been, and how much we all will suffer at the hands of the cult members, and the fact that the Republicans will win back Congress in 2010 and the WH in 2012 if Obama wins this year. But looking past Nov. 4, this was a once-in-a-lifetime boost for the cr*pheads of the party and they will blow it, as they always do. Just think what will happen when the Obama Fascist Youth can’t get jobs, Mummy and Daddy can’t support them in the style to which they’ve become accustomed, and they can’t buy the next new iPod.
I’m worried about many, many things for the next 4 years (regardless who wins) but I’m not worried much about the long term success of Howard Dean’s pathetic faction.
BB: Hear, hear!
BB: HE’s gonna lose, especially after last night. He didn’t make the case & Joe the Plumber will win the election for McCain.
Joe the Plumber is a media star now – I hear his interview with MJ Morning show in Tampa and he said that every single network is parked outside his lawn and AGAIN called Obama a socialist.
Valhalla, it’s so unbelievable that the Dem candidate is for tort reform (aka corporate immunity). Well, the dems gave the telecoms retroactive immunity; I guess it’s only fair to give all corporations immunity from prosecution, eh?
I love that Joe the Plumber sees right through Obama.
I am prepared to be the last PUMA standing (just being facetious) if necessary since under no circumstances will I vote for a corrupt machine such as what we currently have in the DNC along with a candidate who was “chosen” as the nominee.
When fairness finally makes its way back into the mainstream I will consider myself once again a full blooded Dem. Until then, they can go to hell. No Obama!
Votermom: There are millions of him out there that are the unseen.
Joe the Plumber is the blue-collar worker that Hillary won hands down throught the primaries because she stood up to protect & fight for people like him and his family. And your family & my family.
Obama’s response of “spreading the wealth” pisseed off Joe the Plumber & he reported that he’ll be attending some rallies with John McCain soon. He’s doing all the media rounds.
PAT: That’s right, GO TO HELL Obamacrats! I’m loving MadamaB’s “PUMA-up!” phrase, can’t be more fitting than this moment.
Susan – McCain said he’ll protect Roe v. Wade because SCOTUS’ are there to PROTECT the constitution and will not use the office as litmus tests.
He protected women & our repro rights more than the pseudo-Democrat did who wants us to cosult with our male overlords for permission.
With voter fraud being discussed far and wide, how can any of us even take the issue of “daily polls” seriously? It is doubtful that any “straight talk” is coming out of the MSM in the first place. Ohio apparently is a breeding ground at this time for all things nefarious and the current Dem Secretary of State is unbelievable. She is now taking her challenge to the SC to allow these questionable practices to continue.
I would have suspected the Repubs of this behavior but our own Dems? How can any of us think for a minute that our votes are sacred or count in the end? This type of behavior only drives a wedge more securely in our complete lack of trust towards whoever governs. We will surely implode upon ourselves it she is upheld.
Susan, Obama’s utter disdain for women has been present for over a year.
When people like Susan post, I get a tad riled. How can anyone amke a stupid remark like that after the way the Democratic Party treated HRD and after the way they have gone after Sarah Palin and her daughter? Just mind boggling.
The worst part of this is, the DNC didn’t just attack Hillary, Sarah, Bristol, but all of us. Every woman who supported Hillary was labeled insignificant or brainless, because they just knew we would follow along blindly like a puppy sniffing for food. We didn’t matter, we weren’t important like the AA vote, or the youth vote, or even the whole foods elitist group, it was more or less a great big F&*k you to every woman out there who supported Hillary.
Well to the DNC, Barack and the mainstream media, right back at you, because I am not voting for your lying empty suit. Sell this package to someone else.
Another wonderful post, RD. It is amazing how you can put into words the many (even hard for me to sort out properly) feelings that I have.
Much as I hate to admit it, I agree with you—BO has ruined Hillary’s political career, particularly if he gets to the WH. But, as someone else has mentioned, I think that if MC wins Hillary’s chances to run in 2012 shouldn’t be lost. Under this scenario, at least she could have a stab at it while she’s still young enough to go for what should have been hers, had BO not decided to inject his brand of dirty Chicago style politics into this run for the presidency.
The one thing I haven’t lost is hope—and hope that, come November, this belief is rewarded by a McCain/Palin win. After that, the most difficult job is going to be to get those who believe in true democratic ideals back in charge—which can only be done if the likes of Dean & Pelosi are kicked out of the way once and for all.
Okay I made some typos, but you know what I mean
RD – It hurt but it needed to be said re HRC’s political chances at least to be the first woman president.
I have watched with shock and dismay at the successful attempt by my party to at least marginalize if not destroy through demoralization the Clintons and Clinton Democrats. (Obama just cannot make himself say it was the Clinton Administration that left GWB’s administration a 3 trillion dollar surplus.)
I think it’s due to a combination of sexism, classism, and the fact that the Clintons are in politics primarily as public servants. As a result, they are not easily bought off. Ken Starr’s investigations into their finances proved that.
The Clintons (I don’t consider Billary a derogatory term) would move like-minded people into their administration to the degree possible, thereby marginalizing the current Dem. elite, as well as making corporate lobbyists work much harder than they do now.
Obama is so obviously motivated primarily by sheer ambition and he and Axelrod – just like GWB and Rove – look at politics as a game to be won by almost any means available, moral principles be damned, and therefore are most acceptable to the political and corporate elites.
Wait, now the Obamanoids think that Hillary is a real progressive Democrat? I thought she had been a war mongering triangulating Republican in their eyes.
Hillary forever…..
Obama (:evil: ) never
My biggest hope is that if Obama does manage to pull out a win, those of us who have resisted will not fragment and lose heart.
Heidi Li, Riverdaughter, Sheri Tag, Murphy, all those good people who took a stand and created a forum for us and spoke out on our behalf.
Our unity was established by our mutual coalescence of all things that were wrong and corrupt throughout the primary and I would hate to see it erode after November 5th. I am not a leader but I will stand with those who are willing to step forward and are more capable of guiding us through the shoals of the wilderness we may find ourselves navigating.
And seeing us now reach over three and a half million hits tells me others are reading this blog and taking heart. Onward PUMAs!!
I don’t know if Hillary’s presidential career is ended. I think that may be the weariness talking, but it could also be the reality. But I do know WHY. It’s called Gender Plus–the way men and women hide gender discrimination on a daily basis. The Clintons were low class (not like those high class Kennedys and Kerrys and Obamas); they were moderate, popular, but immoral (he b/c he cheated on her, she b/c she forgave him); she’s a liar (no one can tell you one lie she ever told, but…) and she’s a woman. We wouldn’t be so against her being a woman if she were of a higher class, not so clearly married for her own political gain, not such a liar. Let’s face it, the male Dems love JFK and what did he do that they LOVE–he schtupped everything in a skirt. They were sexist pigs and they are sexist pigs now.
Obviously, if teaching the Democratic party a lesson is your first priority, then vote Republican. That is true in any election.
I frankly don’t care if the Democratic Party ever reforms itself, whatever that would even mean. I’m going back to being an Independent, as I was pre-Bush, and will continue voting for candidates based on the issues.
Interesting that the Sec’y of State from Ohio has gone to the SCOTUS re: voter registration ruling.
Mawm: The Obamabots are a bunch of spoiled rotten brats and I agree with the poster above that asked the question just WTF is going to happen when they realize they have been played?
Downticket – you make some excellent points – one of the things I’ve discovered is that even diehard Republicans are saying “Hillary should be running – I would vote for her.”
Honest people know the “goods” when they see it.
McCain may not embody my hopes and principles entirely but at least he has some. Obama, not so much.
I refuse to reward this sham election by caving in and voting for a candidate who has been pushed at me for whatever reasons hover in the background. He is unqualified and he scares me frankly. We have no idea who he is or what he represents. So far I can only glean that he comes from a radical background and associates with people who do not love this country. They have an agenda. He is their instrument.
At least we know something about McCain. Better the devil you know as the old saying goes. The Dem Party has become one without principle or values. I consider myself divorced.
Part 1–Independent Thinking: PARTISAN NO MORE
by kenosha Marge
http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com/2008/10/16/independent-thinking-part-1-partisan-no-more/
Yes, it’s all about independent thinking, PUMAs!
Part 2 tomorrow with a slightly different twist…remember the TY-D-BOL man?
We can sit here all day and say it should be Hillary and that diehard repubs agree, hell even Biden agreed. But it is too damn late, so as Pat Johnson says above, we have to stand together and work hard for the 30% solution or it will continue. We cannot step back and accept defeat if he wins. We have to keep trudging along and coming here, no matter how depresssed we become. We have to send money, even if it is only five bucks to Heidi Li, we have to support other women running for office and we have to follow through with the PUMA actions of the day. That is the only way we can insure that this never happens again.
Pat: What I got from McCain was that he isn’t the evil Neo-Con pondscum Republican. He’s not a religious freak and will leave the SCOTUS’ to PROTECT and uphold the Constitution, not dismantle it. He’s a fiscal conservative and has more of a populist feel than Obama does and ever will.
Ruffian–although for some this may be the case I think that, generally speaking, there’s more to it than to teach.
for instance, I don’t believe that a vote for McCain is just a vote to “teach the Democratic party a lesson”, but rather a vote for an honorable man who cares for his country instead than a vote for an empty suit–though gifted speaker, mainly when he can rely on a teleprompter.
My biggest hope is that if Obama does manage to pull out a win, those of us who have resisted will not fragment and lose heart.
I think regardless of who wins, the PUMAs will need to stay active and be a vocal part of the loyal opposition.
Under Pres. McCain, we need to act as counter-pressure so he’s not coerced into dismantling “entitlements” and so he does not destroy health care.
Under President Obama, we will need to expose the inevitable corruption, propaganda, and corporatism and misogyny..
votermom, on October 16th, 2008 at 9:14 am Said:
I hate this sexist world.
——————-
This is OT but please read this. He compliments her while he
insults her on looks
http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/18/18_bette.html
Hi PUMA’s
Just thought you might be interested to read this anecdotal story about some Obama’s internal polling:
“I have an interesting story to relay that took place earlier this week between my boss (a senior VP in the company I work for) and one of the Obama campaigns’ internal pollsters.
Just to note, my boss is a republican and was meeting the Obama rep over lunch for other reasons. Politics obviously came up due to his line of work.”
http://tiny.cc/NnFLN
Part 1–Independent Thinking: PARTISAN NO MORE
by Kenosha Marge
http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com/2008/10/16/independent-thinking-part-1-partisan-no-more/
It’s all about independent thinking, PUMAs!
I have to echo RD’s thoughts on Hillary’s career. I think that everyone here has to start considering that she is in fact done on the national stage. If Obama loses and she runs again in 2012, she will not get the nomination because the Obama media and others in the Pelosi/Reid/Dean regime will definetely blame the loss on her and Bill’s failure to be more “supportive”. She will never have the support she needs from the party in order to make it out of the primary. I doubt she’d want to run again in 2016 should Obama loses, since she will be close to 70 by that time.
I think Hillary really needs to assess her future and consider something more radical because from what I see, she’s going nowhere in 2012 unless something really big changes.
Downticket, grr … I love Betty Davis.
It makes me want to deliver a blow to the party in November that is so powerful that they get the message.
Hallelujah! I was thinking while walking yesterday that so many HRC supporters who swore they would not support him have folded. How can they possibly forget the corruption, the misogyny, the rac*st charges, the bullying, lying, and manipulation. We were told to sit down and shut up, to get over it, and then to fall in line. “They’ll come around,” they said with condescension, and now people are willing to prove them right?
Not this one. I will not vote for a crook. Usually, we find out they’re crooks after the fact–this time we know ahead of time. And Paul Krugman: this is EXACTLY the time for a protest vote. That’s the point, and they should have realized that before the shoved the wrong candidate down our throats.
As far as HRC goes: her political career is not “over.” Hell, she’s done more in the past month than most Senators do their entire careers. She has been empowered on a new level, and will be effective in whatever she does. But POTUS? I do agree that that opportunity may be lost. That’s why I sob when I hear her speak on policy–the lost potential for a truly great leader on that scale is too painful. All because the One with a pen*s couldn’t wait.
The problem with her running again is that she still will be a woman and a Clinton. The same reasons she was forced out of the race this time. so if Obama wins or loses makes no differance. He won because of the small and petty people hated her and her husband that is not going to change. No way around it. He doesn’t have the power to ruin anything. When did it ever takes a whole media out lets, wall street, sanctioned fraud and cheating by the a party, international financial influance and the worst political and economical enviroment to get someone to win an election. And still they have to force him down people’s throats.
PJ – indeed – Hillary may have been the catalyst but we are all here now because we don’t like being duped, we hate the misogyny, want to do away with the corruption we’ve uncovered and hold the MSM to the standard this country was founded on.
I also was wondering if this kind of corruption was here all along but because we were not so invested we never saw it. I’d love to hear all your takes on this thought.
[...] PUMA up! (h/t to MadamB of the Confluence) [...]
oh, fif – yes!!!!
Just to clarify, I don’t mean her political career. I just meant the Presidential stage. I wouldn’t mind her running for governor of New York, though I know it’s a step down. I think she’d do a pretty good job of cleaning house and getting something done in our state.
Can I dream that HRC will suddenly back McCain in exchange for him putting her on the Supreme Court? I’m not pro-choice but the judges who are mostly likely retiring are, so it doesn’t change the balance of the Supreme Court or anything like that.
Riverdaughter I agree with you 100%. Not only has he destroyed Hillary Clinton’s chances of the presidency, a win for obama makes it highly unlikely that any woman will become the POTUS in at least the next 12-16 years. Unfrickingbelievable.
Has anyone sent gloria steinem, nora ephron and erica jong those pics of the obama supporters in the “Palin is a c**t” shirts? Violent misogyny is alive, well and thoroughly encouraged in nation’s youth by the democratic part. Hope? Change? Well, yes- if you were hoping for a change that took us back to the 1950s….
Palin on Fox (Bangor ME)
SAL: No Supreme Court for Hillary! Her talent & commitment will not be of any use there.
SHE NEEDS TO be in the Senate or in the Oval Office.
rasmussen down to obama +4
Interesting that the Sec’y of State from Ohio has gone to the SCOTUS re: voter registration ruling.
Has Jennifer Brunner od’d on Kool Aid? She is fighting for what–the ability to prevent legitimate registration oversight? She’s turning out to be the Dem Katherine Harris. I hope this is not a delaying tactic so they are not forced to do the ordered registration checks this week.
Sal, It’s illegal for a candidate to offer an SC appointment in return for an endorsement.
I think there will be a Draft Hillary 2012 movement.
SAL: Also, McCain said as far as Roe V Wade is concerned, SCOTUS’ are there to UPHOLD the Constitution, not change it and the office will not be used as a litmus test.
I, a diehard feminist, liked to hear that.
sm77,
From what I read, Hillary actually wants the Supreme Court job but Sen. Government didn’t want to give her any assurances should he win.
fif: She’s freebasing Kool-aid powder mixed with mescaline & PCP.
Sal, two years is a life time in politics, Obama’s defeat will change the fabric of the party. PUMA will start to work on Nov 5th to campaign for her. Who except the ones who created him would have predicted Obama back in 2004?
Hillary’s already said she’s not interested in Supreme Court.
Besides, I believe in that saying: “Never count a Clinton out.”
Sal: HIllary said NO to SCOTUS and to Senate Majority leader, the only thing she left slightly open was Presidency – “probably close to zero” was her phrase.
SCOTUS is a waste for some one like HIllary. I want my FDR in a Pantsuit – not under a robe for life!
votermom,
I wans’t aware of that. I just remember reading the article from politico or some place like that about a conversaiton that took place between the Messiah and HRC where she wanted to be nominated for the SC if he wins but he declined.
sm77,
I agree with McCain’s position as well. I think that’s probably the best compromise pro-choice and pro-life people can come together on.
Mawm: EXACTLY!!!! We are the ones no one was expecting!
The new version is now proven to be a hoax
SCRANTON – The agent in charge of the Secret Service field office in Scranton said allegations that someone yelled “kill him” when presidential hopeful Barack Obama’s name was mentioned during Tuesday’s Sarah Palin rally are unfounded.
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/10/16/kill-him-was-another-fairy-tale/
…
I just saw this over at the Edge of Forever.
I can’t help it–I think Sarah Palin is adorable. I just LIKE her. I wish she was a true Democrat–I’d be really crazy about her no-nonsense, simple authentic approach. She’s a natural, and I resent that they are trying to turn her into evil incarnate because she is such a threat to Mr. Charisma. He hates sharing the spotlight.
Sal: That Hill/O interview is BOGUS.
Joanelle: You can trace corruption back to ancient times. It has always been with us. The Repubs brought it to an art form but the Dems have made use of it as well over the years. Just look at the Chicago Machine or even Boston politics if you need proof.
The difference this time is a coalition of forces: the MSM, the DNC, the Chicago machine, and blog sites who were looking to gain traction into the political process. Their mutual aim was power. Couple that with CDS and a steady roll out of sexism and mix in the encouragement of young bloggers who wanted to be heard in the most disrespectful language and you have allowed a supreme disadvantage against the one viable candidate seeking office.
Corruption can be framed by the likes of a Barney Frank or a Tom Delay but it is still corruption. Each side engages in these practices without much consequence in the long run. We have become a nation of disengagement because most of us feel a sense of helplessness as our “leaders” go unchallenged overall. To ensure a win at any cost, tactics are employed that leave us once again to turn away from what is actually taking place.
We have been let solidily let down over the past 30 years or so and the indifference has built up. This merely opens the door to more of the same governance. Few pay attention until the bitter end. If no one is held responsible than no one is held accountable. This is the world we live in. Very dangerous.
The reason I don’t want Hillary nominated for SC is because I don’t trust her senate colleagues not to crucify her during the vetting process.
She’s been through enough.
Elections are different — the voters do love her. But the other pols would just love a chance to kick her.
Sal, on October 16th, 2008 at 10:21 am
Where did you read that?
sm: lol! That’s one dangerous brew!
From what I read, Hillary actually wants the Supreme Court job but Sen. Government didn’t want to give her any assurances should he win.
Sal: that’s a rumor that’s been debunked. HRC said this week in an interview on FOX that there is zero chance of SCOTUS, and she told McCain that she wants to stay in the Senate. She the Legislative Energizer Bunny.
Grangagita, I know what you mean – there are lots of reasons to vote for McCain, and lots of reasons not to. The main thrust of RD’s piece was the goal of punishing the Dem Party for their actions in the nominating process. I agree with her that they are beyond disgraceful, and supporting them as a party is not an option anymore for me.
But I see that as a separate issue from what is good for the country. That is what I have to base my votes on.
Mawm,
Well something could happen I suppose. But I’m just very skeptical of the media, and think that it will continue to paint the narrative that it was the fault of “racist and bitter” Hillary voters who caused Obama to lose the election, and by connection, Hillary’s fault for not being stronger in her support of him. We all know the jokes are coming. I mean, i still can’t forget that insulting joke from some CNN idiot who implied that Sen. Gov’t needs to get a food taster if HRC was the #2.
There is a real hatred of Hillary in both the media and the kooks on the left that will once again seep its way into the 2012 election if BHO loses. Reid/Pelosi/Dean will still have power by then and I’m sure another Manchurian candidate to prop up.
I’m just trying to think of the best that HRC can make out of this mess. I mean, you’d think that 18 million votes should give her some clout inside her own party
fif: I like her too – just like McCain, they both aren’t EVIL NEO-CON FASCIST PONDSCUM. Sure I totally disagree with them on many issues, but I feel that they are more the “fiscally conservative Republicans” that respect and will UPHOLD the Constitution rather than destroy it like Dubya & Cheney did.
The difference this time is a coalition of forces: the MSM, the DNC, the Chicago machine, and blog sites who were looking to gain traction into the political process.
Excellent point Pat. It’s been a perfect storm of villainy.
Sal, on October 16th, 2008 at 10:13 am
She a senator from NY and I think she is getting somethings done in your state
I have several of Republican friends. Like Dems, they range from moderates to extremes. A good Repub friend, an intelligent moderate woman, said to me earlier this year that Dems are about to find out how easy it is for a group of extremists to take over your party.
BTW, I didn’t hear any Hillary-bashing from my R friends this year, they all seemed stunned by the Dem hate and began to respect, then pity her.
I also reluctantly say that Hillary campaigning so hard for Obama will come back to haunt her in 2012, no matter what. Republicans are increasingly angry that Dems have tried to hang the whole econ mess on them, and they will end up throwing a lot of it back at Dems, and that includes Clintons.
I don’t think I’ll be going back to the Dems, certainly not without tossing the Dean cabal out on its eliist a**.
Mr. Charisma? Lol… that’s Senator Government to you….
downticket,
I don’t remember where I saw it, but I did read about it a while ago. sm77, however, has informed me that it was bogus, so I’ll leave it at that.
The tort reform thing is yet another reason to hate Obama, but a lot of people don’t understand tort reform. My students think it’s “unfair” that somebody who spills hot coffee on herself at a McDonald’s drive-thru gets $4m. I explain that this is McD’s profits for a DAY. That she had 3rd degree burns. Nope–it’s unfair, b/c she was stupid. They are young and nothing bad will ever happen to them. Bad things only happen to stupid people, and then they get greedy and take money away from the rest of us who now have to pay more for McD’s coffee. Sigh.
Obama has become a neo-con. I always wondered if that was what was happening. Marxist to Neo-Con. It’s a pattern.
sm77 – I’m with you all the way on this:
“SCOTUS is a waste for some one like HIllary. I want my FDR in a Pantsuit – not under a robe for life!”
It would be a horrible waste of her talents. I’d rather have her in the Senate, or elsewhere in a more public role.
SAL: Also, McCain said as far as Roe V Wade is concerned, SCOTUS’ are there to UPHOLD the Constitution, not change it and the office will not be used as a litmus test.
sm: I got the feeling, like I have with several other issues, that McCain was clearly signaling to Dems that he will not touch Roe v. Wade. He does this a lot with social issues, speaking carefully to not offend the base, but winking to the rest of us that he is not interested in social engineering on the federal level. I’ve heard him do it with gay rights too.
Downticket,
Hillary’s been real good for us, but the majority of our problems aren’t external, they’re by far internal with the corruption in Albany, which almost rivals Illinois’. Spitzer was supposed to take care of that, but he got caught doing some seriously shady stuff.
Senator Government! That was a great Freudian slip last night.
sorry river daughter, but the negativity in your diary really doesn’t sit well with me. i fully understand the reasons and have to fight the same feelings. HILLARY CAN WIN. HER CAREER ISN’T OVER. NIXON’S WASN’T AND THAT IS TRUE FOR HER ALSO. WE DON’T KNOW WHAT THE FUTURE WILL BRING. i rather imagine that the folks during great recessions and depressions felt really down and then the market turned up.
we were also told that there will be a shakeout in the market with some poor economic news coming. to have expeced otherwise would mean not looking at the big picture. the good analysists have all said that.
buck up! negativity plays into the hands of the dimocrats. let me point out right now there is no party to be loyal to. the democratic party we believed in is DEAD. that doens’t mean that a new and better party might emerge if they get their butts handed to them.
chimera, those students need to read some John Grisham* novels. Or just watch some of the films made from them.
(*who happens to be a Hillary supporter, heh)
SAL: THat was just more HAKA to appease her supporters somewhat.
If you want truth on Hillary, come here to the Confluence and someone will confirm and/or deny it.
According to a certain Voldemort – we are the “Cult of Hillary”
I think Hillary truly believes in Democratic principles.
The only way to get something done right is to do it yourself. She might HAVE to try again, if for no other reason than to get it done *right*.
I hope to see her again, and I think if obama is handed a loss in November, we just might.
I see lots of “Drama with Obama” when and if he is elected. This is when his slobbering supporters who refused to examine or question him during the primaries will see their own chickens come home to roost via his inability to stay on topic and change positions at will.
When they are denied the access they expect, when they are threatened with ra*cist branding, when their words are stifled, the drumbeat will take on a different sound. As always, it will be a day late and a dollar short since we have already identified the problems and issues associated with a possible win.
This is a man with few principles and lacking guts and sound judgment. It may be apparent to us but it will prove interesting when the blinders come off and they recognize this sham for who he really is. Oh well. There will still be room on the PUMA Express for those who come to their senses once again.
to see this empty suited, arrogant, narcissistic, and unqualified candidate act as though he is on that level makes me sick.
SOD: every time I see him, like “W,” it looks to me like he is pretending to be president. He sits like he thinks a president should sit, and his speeches are former leader knock-offs. There is just something so hollow about him, and that he is even in this position, having done SO LITTLE, is beyond comprehension.
Gov. David Paterson can’t name an Obama bi-partisan success
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y0-_-0EHyE&eur
…
OK, so is Tweetie having ‘Tingle’ up the leg withdraw or is the ACORN story going to get bigger and now he want to appear itsy bitsy titsy witsy like he is being fair to McCain?
Maybe a little OT…. but I was thinking about Obama’s community organizer days and his (non) acheivements, and about Wright and his “colleagues” who preach hate and live in multi-million dollar mansions, and then I thought about this man.
A few years ago I saw this film, link below, about Kevin Annett and the genocide of Native Americans in Canada. Starting our as a new minister at his church in 1992, he worked to make this issue public after discovering it. It cost him his family, his job (he was defrocked in a public trial because he was bringing this issue to light, and his ability to complete his Ph.D.. But due to his single handed determination to get justice the process culminated in the Canadian governments recognition of this and public apology in June of this year.
During the three years Annett was a minister at his church he truly ministered to and helped his congregation and after starting with 22 people, eneded up with a full and integrated congregation. And he did this without the Pfleger type diatribe and divisiveness.
I think this is a better example of community organizing and bringing unity –
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6637396204037343133
Chimera: Neither are they aware that the coffee spilled on the woman burned her so badly that she actually had to have reconstructive surgery. They just think she spilled some coffee.
I thought I read that ATLA had endorsed Obama. How could they endorse him if he for tort reform? Makes no sense.
sm77,
Yeah I’ve been a lurker for a while.
You guys are amazing in your support for her.
Just wanted to caution you guys though that the pain doesn’t go away quickly. I’m a Republican, but haven’t supported my party in 8 years since Bush sandbagged my guy, McCain, in 2000 with those disgusting rumors about him having a black child out of wedlock, when it was simply his adopted daughter from Bangladesh.
I even held my nose and voted for Kerry in 2004, man I needed a shower after that one. Gore was a lot easier to stomach, he at least knew what the hell he was doing.
RD, this post is excellent. Despite whatever is going on in the rest of the blogging and media communities, the Confluence remains a safe haven for those of us with the spines to stand firm in our decision about this year’s Democratic candidate. Thank you.
I am afraid that you are right about HRC’s political career being forever damaged by Obama and the DNC’s actions. So for that, and for many other reasons, we do need to send a clear and unequivocal message. I am almost looking forward to Nov. 4. PUMA!
fif, talking about pretense, it bothers me too at all debates when they start, and they thank the people holding the debate — Obama always sounds so perfunctory. Like he just wants to get this dumb politeness out of the way, and anyway, they should be thanking him for deigning to be there.
McCain does better at projecting humility.
BTW McCain’s funniest moment of the night was when Obama boldfacedly lied about his healthcare plan and said there would be no fines. McCain’s mouth was visibly open and aghast, even repeating “there will be no fines?”
I bet he was thinking, damn I miss the Viet Cong right about now.
Obama campaign rep STUMPED on legislative accomplishments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGeu_4Ekx-o
…
Remember the Primary…
Sal, sounds to me like you’re a PUMA of the Republican variety! You can see past partisan mindlessness and actually evaluate the individual. It seems to take a certain special spacial vision, like cats can see in the dark.
Off to work folks. Have a great day and will check in later.
Mawm, I see you’re more optimistic for Hillary later. Thank you for that, I want to believe it and will work for it with you.
I don’t believe the media haka, and I don’t think Obama will win because too many people have too many trust issues. My one and only consolation if he wins would be watching Obots justify our unchanged status in Iraq, our worsening condition in Afghanistan, Penny Pritzer in the Treasury, our worsening economy, his Bush-like lack of press conferences, tax welfare, increasing awareness of his goofy looks and speaking, well, you get the picture.
These people have absolutely no idea who they’re electing, they think they’re getting justice for Gore and Kerry. Sadly, Gore and Kerry seem to think that, too.
It is imperative that the PUMAS stay organized and connected in the years to come whoever is the next president.
WE ARE THE 30% solution.
Over and over during those past few months I have been amazed at the quality of posting and commenting all over JSND. The knowledge and insight PUMAS are demonstrating is fabulous. I have said it before and will SHOUT it again: In 15/20 years from now, 20 or so senators will be PUMAS as well as 15 or so governors.
This movement has awaken some incredible political talents. Those need to be encouraged and nurtured.
If Hillary presidential ambitions have been suffocated for good by the DNC, we the PUMAS are her indirect legacy. For her and for us, we will continue, leaner may be, but stronger and more focus.
Chin up everybody!!!
Woman voter,
I read the link regarding the claim that someone shouted “Kill him” at the mention of Obama’s name at a McCain rally.
According to the article, not only did no Secret Service agent hear that supposed “shouted” sentence, neither did fully 20 people interviewed by the Secret Service, including both other security agents as well as ordinary citizens. Only one person reports having heard that sentence — the reporter himself, who says he has no description of the shouter.
I can’t tell you how livid this makes me. One stinking reporter comes up with this claim, he is contradicted by every other person interviewed (and who could not hear something that was “shouted”?), and the smear is repeated by everyone in the media as the most compelling example of the sort of “hate” inspired by McCain/Palin.
Essentially, the media makes up the news, and then uses it to indulge all their biases shamelessly.
Does anybody even imagine that the media will ever correct itself on this?
I really hope that Somerby latches onto this despicable behavior in the media. It’s another perfect example of how they literally lie and distort to push their biases.
BTW McCain’s funniest moment of the night was when Obama boldfacedly lied about his healthcare plan and said there would be no fines.
one more: Sal, he does that a lot. Lie right to the camera. He’s been doing it for months, and he trusts that the press will not force him to be accountable after the fact (and they don’t). He also said “that’s not true,” when McCain said he launched his Senate bid in Ayer’s home. Uh, yes it is true. It’s infuriating to see him get away with it. He’s like a little kid who just lies automatically.
All we can know for sure is that whatever happens after Nov 5th life will go on. After spending almost a whole year here with my Confluence Friends, I may just get around to doing some much needed housework and put my energies to good use once again.
I have resigned myself either way to the outcome. My high hopes faded into nothing after May 31st when the “fix” we all danced around finally revealed itself for what it was. After months of ups and downs and trying to find a positive in all this treachery I soon realized that my vote no longer counted and the best candidate had the rug pulled out from beneath her. It became easier after that to come face to face with my expectations and grudgingly accept that my party had deserted me.
Hillary Clinton put her heart and soul into this campaign and my disappointment could never measure hers in comparison. But the bowl of gruel they handed me was never going to satisfy. Unlike Oliver Twist, I will never ask for more Sir.
Parentofed, I want to see HIllary against Sarah in 2012. Two women fighting it out for the top slot. How exciting will that be? Sarah will be more seasoned on the national stage then, and Hillary will have us.
Here is a more direct link to the story debunking the story that someone shouted “Kill him” regarding Obama at an McCain/Palin rally.
Hillary will be back in 2012, if only because there’s nobody left on that side who has even a chance of winning at this point.
Thanks fif,
I did try to support my party, but you just don’t forget personal attacks like that.
BTW about that 2000 election, I’m teling you folks, Obama is the second coming of GWB. Go back and compare how they speak without a teleprompter. The stuttering, the “uh huuh um”, the waste of time devoted to talking points with no specific answers (I actually agreed with Gore’s sighs, GWB was pissing me off in those debates). GWB was the original Manchurian candidate propped up by his daddy and others. Under Bush, the government went crazy and increased spending to record levels. Obama will do the same. Obama is the real more of the same failed policies.
That’s why he voted for FISA, because he wants to use and abuse that power to control people if he comes into power. Plus his dangerous support of card check, which even McGovern is completely against, and it’s very obvious to me that Obama’s aim is to make the Oval Office have more powers than even Bush had.
Bush and his hearty band of cohorts opened the way to a Supreme Presidency. Obama will make use of it. We have seen enough quelling of dissent so far to make that a reality.
Fox is covering a double murder in TX in Jan that the FBI now says was an honor killing.
Ugh.
Sick, sick sick.
Sharia law in the UK. Honor killings in TX.
Sexist, sexist world.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,437502,00.html
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/fugitives/vc/murders/said_y.htm
Trying to wake from my anthihistamine fog this morning, I saw some blurb about some guy [NY?] known for his Halloween displays and this year his big displays shows McCain dressed as KKK chasing Obama.
Isn’t that just really helpful to our country this year? These race-baiters may end up causing as much harm to our country as the real rac*sts did.
I looked forward to this year as a Hillary win. 2012 means nothing to me. So much can occur between now and then that just getting through to November 4th is taxing enough. An Obama win closes the door on a Hillary comeback and let’s be honest here, should he capture the WH he may very well gain two terms. That is 8 years total. Hillary will be closer to 69 by that time and I suspect her age, her gender, and the fact that she is Hillary will negate any future possibility of POTUS.
votermom,
I find it infuritating that some Muslims think that it’s offensive for the FBI to call it an honor killing.
Well, with all the nifty Rezco or Acorn background stuff – obama could get impeached after 2010 and then Biden could pardon him and Hillary could run…
Hey, haven’t I seen that movie before?
annnnnnnnd Biden attacks Joe the Plumber’s credibility.
Great job man, go make a personal and specific attack against a small business owner.
Those girls are just beautiful. Needless to say, if the father did this, a certain part of his anatomy should be displaced, that certain place that a lot of men honor most (present company excluded) .
I adore Hillary Clinton, worked hard and donated as much as possible to try and get her elected but this is no longer about Hillary Clinton, not really. It’s about so so much more. It’s about our country, the democratic party, women in politics, women in our society, our future, our children. And yes, now IS the time for a protest vote. Now IS the time to JUST SAY STOP! SAY NO MORE! WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH!
A very sweet young man came to my door last night as I was decorating for Halloween (it’s our favorite holiday in our house). He had the dnc apparel on and the obama button. He saw my Hillary Clinton bumper sticker on my door and said “Hi! I am here from the democratic party…OH! I see you have a Hillary sticker so I know you will want to support us and Obama…” I cut him off, nicely this time because he was so sweet, and said “Yes, I supported Hillary Clinton in the primary but we will not be voting for the Democratic party this election”. My 9 year old daughter blurted out “I will be” from the living room, that’s what you get for encouraging kids to think for themselves
The nice young man said “I am so sorry about that, I wish you could vote for the democratic party” and I said “I wish I could vote also, but I cannot, I have my daughters to think of.” My independent, strong minded daughters. I refuse to let them get the wind knocked out of them when they set their sights on something.
When the 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868 (the first time by the way that the word “male” was introduced into the Constitution) women were told to wait, now was not the time for them. The 19th Amendment wasn’t ratified until 1920.
52 years
NOW IS THE TIME FOR A PROTEST VOTE, DON’T WAIT ANOTHER 52 YEARS!
See, that’s thing. I don’t give a crap about Hillary Clinton’s political career. I care about this country.
Oh for heaven’s sake, Joe Biden is a walking eff-up. Just admit it, say it and be done with it.
I am a Hillary supporter also, but like Lynn Rothchild I can’t support Obama, I was sad to see Hillary on Fox say she was disappointed in me for not supporting Obama. That said I will worry less about her chances till after this election. I do not trust the MSM on polling, but I am concerned about acorn.The debates are over lets take off the gloves & go after Obama.
ainnj,
I’m actually covering that period of history in my online class right now. It’s amazing to think that women had to wait THAT long, and yet you have idiots telling us nowadays that racism has always been the biggest problem. HELLO!?!? Who got voting rights first?!?!
Kim: {{{{{waving}}}}}
The Odinga link to Obama is unbelievably scary. Sharia Law in the UK is terrifying; I’ve no doubt that some, possibly Obama, will push that here.
A side note on the JJ interview. Everyone reported on ‘end of Zionist policy’ remarks and making up to the world of Muslim countries & Islam, but I was struck by his comment about Obama being black. He said that even though Obama’s half-white, grew up in Hawaii, and isn’t descended from slaves, he still bore the full brunt of American rac*sm and shared that burden with all blacks. Said America can never close the ugly chapter on slavery, and he didn’t just mean that we can never close the books [I agree we can never close the history books]. I’ve heard similar things, but this just sounded so over the top, so hateful, so America-sucks-for-blacks-and-can-never-make-it-up-to-us-blacks. Jackson is such a victimization user, it is an industry for him.
parentofed: Be prepared for more visibility of Sharpton and Jackson in the future. Remember, both these men ran for president themselves and this is as close as they will ever get to that office with Obama as POTUS. Their voices will ring loud and clear with all the “victimization” they have lived off over the years.
This thread is wonderfully lively. RD: Howard Dean made it his goal to destroy the Clintons; this is well-known in DC at least. So a big part of the promotion of Obama was to destroy Senator Clinton’s or at least diminish greatly her political influence. How much damage has been done? Time will tell.
Somebody upthread mentioned they were having trouble with River Daughter’s link – for which I am immensely grateful to her for posting. If that link is not working you can use the go to http://tdg.typepad.com/democrats_for_principle_b/
A thought: if you put .44 cents with your contribution, I will take that as a symbol of your objection to how the Democrats treated the 18 million voters who preferred Senator Clinton (the majority of the popular vote). If I get many contributions like that (e.g. $5.44) I will tally the number and write to Dean, Reid, Pelosi, and Senator Obama and Senator Clinton to convey the message, and I will post the letter.
stateofdisbelief,
I did not know that about Douglass, can you point me to an aticle or something about that? It would be very useful for my class.
“Be prepared for more visibility of Sharpton and Jackson in the future.”
Let’s hope it’s the very near future as the Revs. Jackson and Wright, et al, can, if let loose, can sink obama’s candidacy like no one else can. I suggest fox news do a one on one with jackson, then wright, Pfleiger, maybe even ayers and dohrn.
I think the bailout deal exposed how the Senate boys have marginalized Hillary. She should have been at the table.
Regency, on October 16th, 2008 at 10:49 am Said:
Hillary will be back in 2012, if only because there’s nobody left on that side who has even a chance of winning at this point.
Regency, you do make a good point. What I find ironic now are those earlier statements about the high quality of the field of Democratic presidential candidates. Now: Edwards — done. Dodd — not a chance in hell after the Fannie Mae fiasco. Biden — too big of a mouth. Kucinich — good ideas, but probably too out there. Obama — compulsive liar. So at this point, there doesn’t seem to be another prospect on the horizon except for Hillary.
Anyway, I just can’t wait to see that smug smirk drop off of Obama’s face after the votes come in.
Pat: I’m just so friggin tired of being hit over the head with that damned rac*sm bat, the headaches are virtually non-stop now.
Poor Joe The Plumber, bet we’ll be hearing that 20 years ago some second cousin sat across the room in the same diner in SC with an uncle of someone suspected of being a Klan member.
looking for integrity, at 10:39 am Said:
During the three years Annett was a minister at his church he truly ministered to and helped his congregation and after starting with 22 people, eneded up with a full and integrated congregation. And he did this without the Pfleger type diatribe and divisiveness.
**********
Thanks for pointing this out. Oppressed groups need to be able to challenge oppression and value themselves without totally demonizing another group, making up vile stuff, and spewing hate.
I sadly agree with you RD that Obama and the DNC have ruined Hillary’s chances at the Oval Office.
But while it makes me sad it also makes me mad as hell and determined not to take it anymore.
PUMA means “party” unity my backside and I see no reason that we cannot and should not be the big tent that the Democrats claimed to be and were not. As you say, we are the ones they weren’t expecting. If we didn’t matter they wouldn’t keep attacking us. Giant’s aren’t interested in squashing ants.
Many, many Republicans are just as disgusted with what was done to their party as we are about what was done to ours. They were infested with and taken over by the religious wackadoos as we were by the Obamacrats/elitists. Many are just as pi$$ed off as we are.
Now that I have become an Independent I find as many former Republicans as Democrats that have decided to vote for a person and issues and no longer for a “party”. I think we can all respect that.
If we are wrong and Hillary manages a comeback in 2012 that is all to the good. If not, it’s up to us, all of us as Americans to make damned sure that the corrupt media and the corrupted parties know that we know what they did and we aren’t in a forgiving mood.:evil:
thanks state! This guy in my class has been killing me on Lincoln and going rah rah over Douglass because of Lincoln’s delay in freeing all the slaves immediately.
Agree with Anglachel: “but see it as a sign that expressing hatred of and desires to inflict violence upon women is as acceptable across the political spectrum as racism was in the first half of the 20th Century.”
It is not possible to foment hatred against an “outside” group unless that hatred is alread conditioned over long periods of time. Hitler published his view and intentions in the 20’s. No one really criticized him for it. It was the first sign he had that beneath all the modern, progressive layers, the centuries of conditioning people that Jews (and gypsies, and gays) were an “other” of lower value, was still being handed down through the generations-it became ingrained in the subconscious. He knew then that a progressive separation of the Jews from society would not be difficult if he could make it sound reasonable enough to be in tandem with these inner prejudices. He gave obejective’s at the 1,000 foot level which were carried out by his minions at the lower levels any way they saw fit. In fact some of his leadership would write to the High Command that the way some people carried things out was so extreme as to make them look bad in foreigners eyes.
It is the same with women. For millenia various religions have declared that women are second class and subservient to men. These religions hold major influence in the world. Over time laws in various parts of the world have provided women with greater amounts of equality, but these legal constructs have not changed that inner perception in the world, not ust among men but also among women, that women are of lesser value and therefore must step back.
To this day the common knee-jerk reaction when women assert themselves is negative and demeaning, even by other women. Society still looks the other way when women are abused, demeaned, violated, discriminated against. And I believe this has worsened over the past generation. What I hear from kids of college age is more mysoginistic than my boomer generation. Kids will listen to rap and hip hop even if the lyrics are terribly misogynistic. They will play video games that demean women – and its young people that design these games. Date rape and boyfriend abuse have increased. Men feel entitled because they are men. And many women are complicit in this.
It is frustrating when trolls and pundits say that Hillary lost and the better man won, because we know she didn’t and that the win was by a hair’s breadth as a result of voter fraud, and fraud perpetrated by the DNC.
Hillary was the best candidate of all, not because she was a woman, but because she had the most pragmatic, common sense approach, validated by the appropriation of her ideas by both candidates.
It is time for a protest vote followed by grass roots efforts to reform the Democratic Party, or if it does not lend itself to reform, think about building a truly strong 3rd party. Whether Hillary runs again or not, this movement will have been because of Hillary and the deconstruction of ethics in the DNC.
Hey, how come my name has changed? I am NOT Search the Web. on Snap.com. This is kenoshaMarge. What’s going on?
hmm lets see
It still works Kenosha (that was me who tested your name above, FYI)
TRKim, I don’t think there’s really any doubt that the father did it.
I’m reading a news article from back in January, and it’s clear that there were so many instances that the girls and even the wife were trying to escape the abusive father, and they were just ignored. It’s very much a typical abusive nightmare, the father using religion to justify his violence.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=4149405
votermom – that story is horrifying. Honor killings – disgusting and cannot be justified ever.
The Real Kim – yep, I agree and think that we should call it the Bobbitt Consequence.
Housekeeping: the button on the upper left of this site takes you the The Denver Group’s Democrats For Principle Before Party website, where you can donate.
If you want to go straight to paypal try this: http://tinyurl.com/3fz4xd
thank you state, I’m already starting the websearch on that
Sal, you can also just google Frederick Douglass + suffragets (of course you’ll have to spell better than I) and you will find some articles on it.
About Lincoln freeing the slaves: that took a constitutional amendment, which didn’t pass until after Lincoln’s death: and I might add that amendments XIII, XIV, XV had to be passed by Radical Republicans over objections coming from… Democrats.
Pat: {{{{{{{{{{{{{{waving}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} I am in one of those Betty Davis don’t eff with me moods today.
votermom: I worked almost 10 years in DV and would still be there if they could pay us enough to maintain a single mom family. I know what they probably went through and if anyone thinks the law and courts are on your side in when it comes to domestic violence-you are wrong. There is still the same old notion, “well why doesn’t she just leave him”. Most people haven’t a clue that the most dangerous time for a woman are the months after she leaves the home.
Now, will you please stop telling me that Sen. Obama’s election is critical to women’s reproductive rights?
http://tdg.typepad.com/heidi_lis_potpourri/2008/10/now-will-you-please-stop-telling-me-that-sen-obamas-election-is-critical-to-womens-reproductive-rights.html
And another thing: why does Senator Obama think that women need to consult with doctors, families, and religious advisers when deciding what to do with their own bodies? I have no objection to anybody consulting with anybody about any decision, but Senator Obama’s committee of consultants approach suggests that once again he misses the point when it comes to women’s empowerment. Would Senator Obama imply that men who decide to have vasectomies should make that decision in consultation with their families, their doctors and their religious advisers? I doubt it. I am sure that many men who debate having a vasectomy do in fact consult various people. But the double standard that is in play here is one that says when women decide what to do with their bodies it is of course a community decision, with a particular role for religious advisers but when men decide what to do with their bodies and their reproductive choices there is no presumption of community involvement. Similarly, would Senator Obama suggest that before consenting adults choose to use birth control (the subject of an important Supreme Court precedent leading up to Roe v. Wade) they ought to be consulting their families, doctors, and religious advisers?
……………………………
Heidi Li got that one right! Obama is basically saying to infantile the women, make them ask permission, don’t assumes they are ALL GROWN UP!
By Douglass are we talking about the abolitionist Frederick Douglass, or Lincoln’s old political rival Stephen A. Douglas?
Pat Johnson, on October 16th, 2008 at 11:12 am Said:
parentofed: Be prepared for more visibility of Sharpton and Jackson in the future. Remember, both these men ran for president themselves and this is as close as they will ever get to that office with Obama as POTUS. Their voices will ring loud and clear with all the “victimization” they have lived off over the years.
Very astute, as always, Pat.
TRKim — you are my hero.
What’s your opinion on the DV angle in Palin’s “trooper gate”?
My personal opinion is that Palin probably understands the dynamics of domestic abuse better than anyone else on either ticket.
Morning all!
This post is spectacular, RD. I think that we PUMAs should not be hanging all our hopes on Hillary and her political future. Despite my deep admiration for her and her husband, it is the ideals that they personify that we must promote.
That being said, Hillary Clinton always has my support in whatever she chooses to do. I would like to see her and Bill go third-party after the election, especially if John McCain wins. That way, she can tell the disgusting, misogynistic, elitist Party Leadership to take a hike.
And that includes Senator Obama.
Luv RD…and greatly respect her opinion, but I in no way believe uhbama ruined her career.
In politics, one week alone, heck, one day can make a difference, but 4 years is a lifetime away.
Hillary has been muzzled for now, until this travesty of a ‘candidate’ is either put down, or wins…She’s not going anywhere, and she will be treated as the grande dame of the Dem party. I’m confident of this….
Someone needs to let Anglachel know that the “kill him” thing at Palin’s rally has been debunked by the Secret Service, I tried but I’m not signed up over there
“Anyway, I just can’t wait to see that smug smirk drop off of Obama’s face after the votes come in.”
I pray you are right, I pray pray pray you are right. Not just his smirking face, either. I can’t wait to hear the wailing and the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments among the Obots. It will be sweet, sweet music.
Fox is covering a double murder in TX in Jan that the FBI now says was an honor killing.
Ugh.
Sick, sick sick.
Sharia law in the UK. Honor killings in TX.
Sexist, sexist world.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,437502,00.html
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/fugitives/vc/murders/said_y.htm
…
I don’t want Sharia Law here EVER! The UK surrendered and Sharia courts will over see domestic abuse too. Gee, I wonder who will have the judges ear?
I’m standing strong, and so is my mother. In fact, just this morning my mother (a lifetime straight Dem. voter) told me that she is never voting for the Dem. Party again as long as Pelosi, Reid & Dean are running things. I think she’s got a good point.
The original Ku Klux Klan was founded in 1866 by southern Democrats to suppress the black/Republican vote in the south– Klansmen took an oath to oppose the “radical party’ and to support the original constitution.
Heidi Li got that one right! Obama is basically saying to infantile the women, make them ask permission, don’t assumes they are ALL GROWN UP!
Obama thinks women are too emotional to make important decisions all be themselves.
Morning all!
This post is spectacular, RD. I think that we PUMAs should not be hanging all our hopes on Hillary and her political future. Despite my deep admiration for her and her husband, it is the ideals that they personify that we must promote.
That being said, Hillary Clinton always has my support in whatever she chooses to do. I would like to see her and Bill go third-party after the election, especially if John McCain wins. That way, she can tell the disgusting, misogynistic, elitist Party Leadership to take a hike.
And that includes Senator Obama.
Can you farking believe that I was taught that Douglass wanted to wait until both women and AA men could get the vote? I was f-ing taught that in college. I had to google it about six months ago and find out the f-ing truth. That was a crappy moment.
For those upthread wondering if we are in it for the long haul: a resounding yes! I actually wrote two blog posts last night – this one might be of interest on that front “It takes lifetimes, not election cycles”: http://tdg.typepad.com/heidi_lis_potpourri/2008/10/it-takes-lifetimes-not-election-cycles.html
stateofdisbelief,
OMG! Those words sound like so many black supporters of Obama who argued why racism was worse than sexism!!!!!!!! I urge everyone to read that. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton could not have said it any better!
It is on par with Jeremiah Wright’s “Hillary ain’t never been called a n*****” line.
shocking.
sorry about that, Heidi Li. I can’t access the edit GUI from work so I can’t fix the link or any of my awkward phrasing and split infinitives either. There was just no time to edit this morning.
Thank you RD for delineating our predicament and stance.
I’m just getting over not having a candidate to be “for.” I regarded my patriotic duty as voting. Still may make some difference. Not so much in Democratic primaries.
Now I need to be with the resistance. With the group demanding democracy in the USA.
I am deeply disappointed that our country has skewed so far from democracy. I’m reluctantly accepting that fact. I can visualize my self saying, “Let this cup pass from me.” And I know the answer. Now on to the battle.
I am also aware of the joy of having people at the Confluence, Heidi Li’s Potpourri, PUMA Pac, Free Us Now etc. as allies in this struggle
Woman Voter, on October 16th, 2008 at 11:29 am Said:
Thank you Woman Voter. Here’s some good news. I put that post up on Real Clear Politics (a Time magazine sponsored website with all sorts of sections, including one called reader submissions). To make a long story short it already has 23 votes, and appeared on their front page rotation.
If that post can get that kind of attention on Real Clear Politics, there is hope.
The Obamabots are losing already based solely on the idea of losing. They can’t bear to look into the abyss of losing because they’ve expended so much emotional projection onto a fantasy. A fantasy that has no blemishes, no faults, no corruption. Besides they’ve eschewed the voices of reason up until now. With the election coming fast and furious the Obots, are feeling cognitive dissonance. On the one hand they can’t lose, on the other they could lose big time.
In reality, they are weighing the fact that they’ve already lost the most valuable commodity that one can have; their self-respect.
What a great bunch of principled people on this topic with RD, strong of heart and unwavering.
Proud to be here but want to note that it may be better just to mourn the ones who stand for nothing.
If things don’t go our way, we do not abandon the cause to rush to what the media tells us is the winning side.
We know that if BO is elected, everyone is a loser except for those of us who kept the faith.
votermom: I think she does understand DV; but you have to add into the eauation that this was her sister. You can never underestimate the good old boys network in law enforcement and he was a trooper. So many of my previous clients were abused by men in law enforcement and it takes someone with balls of steel to go against that network. Fortunately, mine are titanium and I think Palin’s are as well. So if nepotism was in play, so was that network in aiding her brother in law in his acts. Tit for tat.
I can also relate because my sister was abused while I was the DV coordinator. All I will say, is blood is much thicker than water. My brother in law hasn’t even so much as pecked on my sister since the night I went head to toe with the network in my town.
Finally, we have to stand together, we are all sisters.
The 13th amendment ended slavery as a matter of law, the fourteenth was for equal protection and due process, the 15th gave blacks the vote. The Ku Klux Klan was founded to suppress this black/Republican vote.
For anyone studying Reconstruction, I recommend Ku Klux Klan: Its Origin, Growth and Disbandment, by founding Klan members John Lester and DL Wilson. It’s on Google books and the evidence and oaths and everything are in there.
I’m with ainnj:
NOW IS THE TIME FOR A PROTEST VOTE, DON’T WAIT ANOTHER 52 YEARS!
I agree with destardi. A lot can happen in four years. Look at the career of Richard Nixon.
However, I will assume for now that Hillary will be making her permanent home in the Senate. That remains a very powerful place for her to be. And she has a stronger political base than ever. I consider her to be the winner of this entire season.
Since I live in California, my vote will be carried away on a sea of blue. I am supporting the Greens to help them achieve a greater voice. I also want to formally recognize Cynthia McKinney’s values, solid political experience and recorded vote against the war, as well as stand for women candidates. I am aware of her weaknesses–I never did go for X-File style 9/11 conspiracies myself–but under the circumstances I will overlook them.
Sistah,
well said.
Just catching up after reading. I actually watched the debate last night and I thought it was no contest, but I guess its in the eyes of the beholder.
Actually, take heart all, Obama should be up 10 or more considering the state of the economy. And Hillary will be back.
Also, I agree–PUMA’s must stick together no matter what. I don’t comment much, but do enjoy reading -in fact, this blog makes my day bearable. Plus, if the Obie does win—-can you imagine the inauguration to do’s? If we think the nomination was tacky-get ready. We will need each other to live through the extravaganza.
SOD- right
In fact, the grandfather clauses (1890? to 1915) used literacy and the poll tax requirement to prevent blacks, native americans, latinos, and poor whites from being able to vote.
ugsome,
isn’t McKinney even more far left than Obama? I’ve always had the impression she was a secret DU poster or a dkos diarist.
I’ve been thinking back…… having read Anglachel’s great post this morning, having watched Obama’s inability to denounce John Lewis’s Wallace statement last night, having read the article that proves NO ONE said “Kill him” at the Sarah Palin rally, knowing that Olbermann’s irrational rant about something that never happened is exactly the same as his rant about Hillary and RFK, with nary an apology when he actually got the facts and found out he was wrong……
I’m remembering Michelle Obama’s comment early-on that America is a mean country, and that people keep “moving the bar.”
I think I understand why Michelle thinks it’s a mean country………her own circles , including Obama and the Axelrod Chicago machine…..are the ones with no honor, no common decency, use whatever it takes to win , MEANNESS.
And the leaders of the Democratic Party have no courage in calling it out.
Yes, Michelle……YOUR America is mean.
No thank you. I’ll be voting for John McCain.
On PBS last night, several pundits repeated the idea that Obama looked presidential. The basis for this assessment was that he remained calm. Another one for the “low bar” of presidential criteria for the past eight years and counting!
madamab……I agree witcha….where do you think obama will slither off to after he loses? He couldn’t possibly stay in the senate and actually work!!
BTW, that cow, Brazile has a commentary today on how “America is ready for the obama effect”….what the hell does that mean? More divisiveness, more race card playing…what?
To RD, The Confluence and the commenters….rock the hell on!!!
Heidi Li,
Thanks, it is so wonderful to see smart women taking a stand and pointing out what so many in the media are missing all while clapping. I work with all men in on area and if we women were as they portray us to be it wouldn’t work and I couldn’t be in charge.
Keep…going…
Heidi Li – Congratulations! We are on the same page this morning.
How do I vote for you at Real Clear Politics? Can you post a link?
I’ve never been a party loyalist–not to either party. Republicans are not Teh Bad and Democrats are not Teh Good. Think about it for two seconds and you’ll recall where that kind of thinking leads, EVERY SINGLE TIME. It’s Human Nature 101.
This year, though, I’d planned to vote mostly Democratic. Barky and his minions pretty much took care of that impulse. I feel sorry for you party loyalists, who must be suffering the most terrible kinds of cognitive dissonance.
Oh, and RD is right. Clinton won’t run again.
He has ruined Hillary Clinton’s political career.
Yes, that he did. The complicity of the party infrastructure and the media in making that happen is mind boggling. All that happened even after everyone knew she was the better candidate. But why? {rhetorical question} Not one party/media person to have come up and say this is not right — here we are in the millions saying it is not right.
We just received the first contribution with .44 !
This is because of something I mentioned upthread, which I will repeat here:
Somebody upthread mentioned they were having trouble with River Daughter’s link – for which I am immensely grateful to her for posting. If that link is not working you can use the go to http://tdg.typepad.com/democrats_for_principle_b/
A thought: if you put .44 cents with your contribution, I will take that as a symbol of your objection to how the Democrats treated the 18 million voters who preferred Senator Clinton (the majority of the popular vote). If I get many contributions like that (e.g. $5.44) I will tally the number and write to Dean, Reid, Pelosi, and Senator Obama and Senator Clinton to convey the message, and I will post the letter.
If by presidential, they meant Obama looked like Dubya, then yes I’d agree wholeheartedly.
My wife fell asleep, literally, while he was in that 5 minute rambling on NAFTA
Way Back Machine: In addition to opining that the US would elect a BLACK MALE before it elected a WOMAN, some early feminist also said that the first WOMAN President would be a REPUBLICAN. Sorry, I can’t source that comment, but I know I heard it years ago. In light of the prominent role of misogyny in the current election, I have to question whether even a Republican woman could be elected President.
Careful with that .44 remark Heidi, some Obot spammers might think you’re talking about bullet caliber instead of cents.
Sadly, I typed that sentence in sarcasm, but realized at the end that it might actually happen.
I have researched the McKinney campaign and found that her veep choice Rosa Clemente is a hip hop activist. This is troubling because hip hop is among the greatest sources of misogyny and disrespect for women. Clemente opposes hip hop abuses but has praised or hosted artists who use the b word (and this disgusting new five letter n word) so her message seems highly equivocal and misguided to me.
RD, not to worry about the broken link. Here’s a direct-to-paypal link that should work: http://tinyurl.com/3fz4xd
Or hit the Democrats For Principle Before Party button on the upper left of this site, which takes you to our website.
Another Way Back Machine:
Bill Maher openly said, “We owe Blacks more than we owe Women” during the primary.
We do?????
salmonrising,
with what we’ve seen happen to Palin and Hillary, would ANY woman even want to go through that again? I’m a typical guy and don’t notice anything unless my wife tells me, but even I caught on to the amount of times words like “witch” and “shrill” was used when describing Obama. And let’s not even go there with the stupid VPILF crap from 18 year old losers.
Hi all!
HeidiLi I can’t find you at RCP help!!
err I meant when describding Hillary.
Mary – Wow.
Do they ever consider the fact that some AA’s ARE in fact women?
New Post above from Dakinikat
I just donated to the link and added .44.
Mary, on October 16th, 2008 at 11:50 am Said:
Another Way Back Machine:
Bill Maher openly said, “We owe Blacks more than we owe Women” during the primary.
*******
Par for Bill’s course!
Hello madamab,
Ok, bear with me as I try to explain how to use Real Clear Politics. To go to reader articles page head to http://readerarticles.realclearpolitics.com/
In the upper right you can login or register; you have to register to vote.
After you register go back to the http://readerarticles.realclearpolitics.com/ and find on the page
“Now, will you please stop telling me that Sen. Obama’s election is critical to women’s reproductive rights?” and cast a vote.
Like many of the bigger blogs/website RCP skews male so whenever I manage to write something that catches on over there, I know I’m making dents.
purplefinn, on October 16th, 2008 at 11:54 am Said:
Bill Maher is on record that he would never marry – that he can have all the s%x he wants without having to have to have woman around all the time. THAT’s a healthy attitude, eh?
RD: Thank you so much for this. I’ve started to notice this phenomenon. Folks that won’t say they’re voting McCain because of the abuse they’ll take from Obama Voters. This includes a lot of black people I know actually. I spend time on two campuses still, although i’m not teaching in small town louisiana. If I talk one on one, if i give people the feeling they are safe, they will say they are voting for McCain or leaning that way. I’m suprised a the number of folks that are saying they are undecided in groups because they just don’t want the shrieking and hysteria, and the charges of r@cism or you’re not really a liberal/progressive!
I’m thinking this might be something the pollsters may not be picking up. But then, I only have two samples. Small town rural to suburban Louisiana and New Orleans. Maybe it’s strange down here.
I’ve actually had many black friends individually tel me that they think Obama is setting back civil rights by the tone of his debate and are complaining it seems to be more of a movement of rich suburban kids, mostly white and they are feeling pressured just to shut up and go along, because all that will change once he gets elected. They are skeptic that change will ever happen.
Sal: …the first WOMAN President would be a REPUBLICAN
that is what so many are afraid of – that’s one of the reasons they objected to Sarah – not just her “inexperience” but if – something did happen to John we’d have – OMG – a woman president
Clarification: change that about to I’m teaching NOW in small town lousiana and not URBAN New Orleans
I sometimes agree w/Bill Maher. Religion, stupid stuff. But when it comes to women, he is a dickhead of the biggest kind. Very disrespectful, just like Howard Stern. Until these men get that saying these sexist things about women is not acceptable we still have a long way to go.
Marsha
Thanks, Heidi Li! You explained it perfectly. You now have 25 votes!
Oh, and NEW POST UP!!!
To the person who said they can’t “find me” on RCP – try doing a search in the page for “HLF59″ which is my handle there. The relevant url is
http://readerarticles.realclearpolitics.com/
woman voter, and Heidi, I also hate it when Obama says that abortion is a moral issue. since when do democrats legislate morality? He is no democrat.
Read this: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/13/wall.bush-obama/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
Tara Wall compares Bush and Obama and they are twins.
Heidi that was me who couldn’t find the article, just wanted to show you some support there, thanks. Enjoy your blog too.
purplefinn—-that ‘looking presidential’ crap is just crap. These so called journalists should be embarrassed. It is such a subjective criteria and please—is that what it has come to?
“It makes me want to deliver a blow to the party in November that is so powerful that they get the message. ”
That is precisely why I have decided to vote straight Republican on the whole ballot this time. Every single office.
Sod – indeed ST got it right when she said in her: Ain’t I A Woman? speech Delivered 1851
Women’s Convention, Akron, Ohio
“Well, children, where there is so much racket there must be something out of kilter. I think that ‘twixt the negroes of the South and the women at the North, all talking about rights, the white men will be in a fix pretty soon. But what’s all this here talking about?
That man over there says that women need to be helped into carriages, and lifted over ditches, and to have the best place everywhere. Nobody ever helps me into carriages, or over mud-puddles, or gives me any best place! And ain’t I a woman? Look at me! Look at my arm! I have ploughed and planted, and gathered into barns, and no man could head me! And ain’t I a woman? I could work as much and eat as much as a man – when I could get it – and bear the lash as well! And ain’t I a woman? I have borne thirteen children, and seen most all sold off to slavery, and when I cried out with my mother’s grief, none but Jesus heard me! And ain’t I a woman?
Then they talk about this thing in the head; what’s this they call it? [member of audience whispers, "intellect"] That’s it, honey. What’s that got to do with women’s rights or negroes’ rights? If my cup won’t hold but a pint, and yours holds a quart, wouldn’t you be mean not to let me have my little half measure full?
Then that little man in black there, he says women can’t have as much rights as men, ’cause Christ wasn’t a woman! Where did your Christ come from? Where did your Christ come from? From God and a woman! Man had nothing to do with Him.
If the first woman God ever made was strong enough to turn the world upside down all alone, these women together ought to be able to turn it back , and get it right side up again! And now they is asking to do it, the men better let them.
Obliged to you for hearing me, and now old Sojourner ain’t got nothing more to say. “
Heidi Li-
The sounds of a man scorned (Maher) ….
The situation is no conundrum for me. There is no Democratic Party now. Anyone who thinks that is living in an alternate world of their own making. I’m not conflicted about placing my vote for McPalin. I have never voted for a Repug before, but there is no other choice this year.
Thanks for bringing this possible “confusion” option up. I feel bad for people who have to deal with family and friends who even consider voting for a crook and a corrupt party. Mind boggling. Needless to say, I can’t help convince them to change their minds – this is a principles problem – you either have them or you don’t. Boy am I dry.
griffithinc: Even though the SS reported they had numerous security throughout that event and that the “kill him” charge was false, and absolutely no one can find anyone who heard that remark from anybody, the reporter/newspaper is standing by its story.
That’s our Obamedia for you: if we can’t find any news to hurt McCain/Palin or help Obama, we’ll just make it up. Not need to retract or apologize either if we’re called on our lying a**es.
Sal, Yes, McKinney is quite far left. Those views would take on a different political meaning were she a major nominee. Under my political circumstances, to throw my vote to my ideals, to support a party outside the mainstream, and to vote women are valid reasons for me to go Green.
Incidentally, does anyone disagree that California is destined to go Obama?
@paganpower, 12:07
“ ‘ It makes me want to deliver a blow to the party in November that is so powerful that they get the message.’
That is precisely why I have decided to vote straight Republican on the whole ballot this time. Every single office.”
You know, that’s precisely what I’m going to do (with the possible exception of the repellent Denny Smith). But, being in Portland, Oregon, I tell everyone I’m voting for Cynthia McKinney, to avoid accusations of not being sufficiently liberal and post-racial and alla that shit.
griffith: Saw where Maher happily admits they lied to religious types to get his movie made, and used people out of context. I can’t stand the Misogynistic Maher and I can’t stand that he uses that same self–righteous ends justify the means preaching that he denounces in others.
I would like to agree with others above, that many people are just SAYING they’ll vote for Obama to avoid the hassle with family, co-workers, and friends.
But once in the voting booth, they won’t.
That’s not the Bradley Effect. That’s the new Obama fatigue effect.
TRKim:
Finally, we have to stand together, we are all sisters.
A thousand time YES to this!!!
Let me add that I’m one of those that’s saying I’m voting for Nader again [sorry could not vote for kerry]… too much hassle from the obots… it also allows them to discount anything I have to say in their mesmerized BO trance state… When I ask them why bo? Many say they don’t like that woman [aka Palin]… aaargh… how misogynistic!!!… last night an obot was over for dinner, said he was a hill liker at the beginning of the campaign turned into a hill hater towards the end of the primary campaign and his only justification for being an obot was he consider bo ‘thoughtful’….
aargh again…
One of our OWN did a great Video that I think says it all..Please view and help raise this video up on youtube
Yeah Lois, Maher is a complete dickhead, I’m not going to see his stupid movie.
Joanelle: Love the ST speech, “Ain’t I a woman?” Still fighting the same dirty sexism in 2008 for pete’s sake. When is this country going to grow up?
I went over and voted for Heidi Li’s article at RCP, there are some other good articles over there too, mostly ripping the Precious to shreds. Good work all.
Marsha
Well riverdaughter you nailed it once again. As a life long Democrat I may need to hold my breath and use two hands to vote for McCain, but I’m with you. A painful lesson must be taught and the Democratic party must hear us loud and clear that Obama never was and never will be our candidate. I thought the world had ended when Nixon was elected and we’ve survived two terms with Bush (barely!) so I guess we can survive four years of McCain.
I’ve already delivered my blow to the Democratic Party. The ballot’s in the mail and I made damn sure Barky didn’t get a reward from me.
I hope everyone reading this will join me.
Conflucians: many, many thanks – your votes are pushing the latest piece at RCP close to 30 – once one gets into the 30 – 40 range, one stands of a chance of being categorized as “most voted upon in the past seven days” – and that drives traffic to the blog, which in turn drives traffic over here. (I can tell from the outclicks).
ugsome, on October 16th, 2008 at 12:23 pm Said: “Incidentally, does anyone disagree that California is destined to go Obama?”
Yes, I disagree. I don’t trust the polls and there are a lot of Republican areas here.
I also think it’s important to make sure Obama’s strongest competition (McCain) gets as much of the popular vote as possible in as many states as possible. Someone on a different blog (can’t remember where or who, unfortunately) suggested that the Acorn registrations weren’t intended to be used by actual voters but to cast enough doubt that Obama can protest the election results if they don’t go his way. The skewed polls can be used as evidence that Obama should have won the election.
My tin-foil theory is that Obama is going to go on TV during his 30-minute special and tell his minions to get in people’s faces if the election outcome varies from the polls.
“It makes me want to deliver a blow to the party in November that is so powerful that they get the message.”
Sounds like a revenge vote, and if McCain were to win with such votes, the rights of women that HRC has worked her whole career for will be in jeopardy. A vote that’s meant to punish the DNC will only punish American women.
I am an Independent and always have been but I used to vote about 80% Democrat. I think your D party is broken whether they lose or not. But the thing is I think it would be easier for you all to give the party to the misogynist leftists and start a new party. You know these people are extreemely active politically and they are not going to go away. So leave them the party to keep them busy and go start a new party that welcomes The People and honors women as full people. I think that is the preferable way for you to go.
These men will never respect women they might fake it for awhile but you need to get completely away from them to ever get my vote again.
Charlotte, get a grip! McCain does not want to hurt women’s rights. He gave us a hand up through his choice of Palin, a choice the Dems have pornogrified and mocked. The Dems have publicly and loudly behaved in a misogynist manner. Open your eyes. Endless blabbing, most of which is lies does nothing for women. Look at what these partys have actually done for us. McCain promotes women and pays them equally to men. Obama $h!ts on women candidates and pays the women in his office less than the men. Open your eyes!
Downticket,
I respectfully disagree, I think Obama’s campaign has raised Hillary’s political capital in the eyes of most democrats. How impressive was she when she was getting hit the hardest?! Everyone, even the repubs, acknowledged her as a true fighter and a true public servant dedicated to her constituents and their issues. I truly believe that if McCain wins, she will have an exceptionally strong platform to launch her 2012 campaign. I’m ready and waiting. And this next four years she will be doing more great work, increasing her political capital even more.
I’m surprised by the tone of defeatism here at the Confluence. Don’t we recall from whence we came? Our hero was a candidate who was beaten and bloodied by her own party. We praised her and supported her, one Friday Fast after another. What changed? Did the recent headlines touting that Hillary will not run again because she didn’t say “I’m going to run again”, scare you off? We know that’s crap. Or is it the awful fear that Obama might win the election? If he wins the election, he will have a horrible four years of nothing; saddled with a collapsing economy and corporate IOUs to pay. While Obama’s getting out of his own way Hillary will be legislating, advocating and generally being ahead of the curve on many issues.
I am energized, I see great things coming from our junior senator from New York, Hillary Rodham Clinton.
Hey folks!
Just had the most remarkable “discussion” about the “Kill Him” nonsense with an Obot. She first started with the I’m scared of Palin and the witch doctor stuff” but when I pointed about how odd it was to be scared of someone who you didn’t even know existed two months agon and that “crazy pastors” abound in this election, she moved on to the “Kill Him” stuff that the Secret Service and determined that they were unfounded claims. I then suggested that she read the fairly straightforward AP report.
Well, you would have thought I cursed her mother or something! She started going on about how she saw the live event and heard it with her own ears. I pointed out that that was odd since she wasn’t at the live events – meaning that she heard the tapes later and that the SS listened to the tapes and didn’t hear the remark.
I also pointed out that the SS did a full investigation, including talking to folks in the crowds and had agents stationed in the crowds who didn’t hear anything either. She then proceeded to tell me that I wasn’t operating with “full information” and that the AP report MUST have been out of context because it was just a SS spokesperson being quoted as opposed to the full SS report. I then pointed out that the full report is not going to be made public so that was a silly assertion and that the AP report wasn’t an “analysis” it was a basic report.
Finally she huffed and puffed and left my office in a fury! Funny stuff!
Charlotte, Please let us know why you think Mccain will jeopardise women’s rights?
He slected a woman as his running mate while the DNC and Obama kicked the most qualified woman on their side. How do you feel about that
Connie,
How is Palin helping us?
RD: You truly are my hero!
Sujesh,
Good question. Here’s why I think McCain won’t help women (stats from Planned Parenthood):
“He’s voted 125 times against women’s health.
He wants to overturn Roe v. Wade.
He opposes funding to prevent unintended and teen pregnancies.
He opposes requiring health care plans to cover birth control.
He opposes equal pay legislation, saying it wouldn’t do ‘anything to help the rights of women.’
He’s proposed a health care plan that will be worse for women.”
To me, these issues are vastly more important than the selection of one woman as a running mate. Sarah Palin is pro-life even in cases of rape and incest, so I don’t see how McCain selecting Palin is a pro-woman choice–it’s pro-ONE-woman, in my view.
I realize many folks on this site won’t agree, but thanks for giving me the chance to clarify.
Sujesh,
If Planned Parenthood and all these other groups were so hard up for women’s rights, then why didn’t they ENDORSE Hillary instead of Obama?
I find it disingenuos and presumptive of them to say, oh we have to protect women’s rights when the BIGGEST champion of women’s rights were shunned by them during the primaries.
apologies, that was for Charlotte
I think you raise a good point, Sal, but why blame the women of our country for who Planned Parenthood endorsed by now voting for McCain? That’s my main issue: with the two choices we NOW have for president, whose administration will be safest for women? To me, there’s no question that btw. the two, Obama is a better vote for women.
ugsome,
Yes, I also disagree. I truly many, many people here in CA are not saying or showing how they are going to vote for fear of social reprisals.
ugsome,
Yes, I also disagree. I believe many, many people here in CA are not saying or showing how they are going to vote for fear of social reprisals.
Sorry, Charlotte.
Obama is a sexist who pays the women on his staff less then the men. McCain pays the women on his staff more than the men!
Sarah Palin is an active feminist. She walks the talk of being a capable working mom.
Do not confuse liberalism with feminism. One is not a feminist solely based on the issue of choice. That is a tired, worn-out canard.
Charlotte,
I believe you’re letting your vote be handcuffed by Roe v Wade, which is exactly the strategy that Obama’s campaign decided to use, and also why instead of reaching out to Hillary voters, his words of comfort were “get over it”.
The man calls accomplished career women “sweetie”, tells Hillary that she’s “likeable enough”, and pays his female staffers LESS than what McCain pays his female workers.
McCain has specifically stated that he will NOT require a litmus test for SCOTUS. It won’t matter if they’re pro or anti Roe v Wade. BTW, if Roe v Wade hasn’t been overturned during Dubya’s time, it certainly won’t get overturned in a McCain Presidency. Also, that talking point about him opposing funding to prevent teen pregnancies is a silly point ot make, unless there is some magical device which renders all females under the age of 20 sterile, there is no such thing as something that prevents teen pregnancies.
Obama says many things, but don’t let yourself be charmed by promises.
Charlotte:
How could supporting the most misogynist campaign in our history be the best vote for women?
myiq2xu,
Exactly my thoughts as well. The hateful and sexist attacks against Hillary from BO and his minions are something that even I, a standard Republican male, didn’t miss. Meanwhile, McCain has spent his time praising Hillary ANNNNNNND working with her across the aisle in the Senate.
madazhel:
Neither Obama nor his supporters are liberals.
You CANNOT be a liberal and a misogynist at the same time.
Obama and his followers are fauxgressives.
Can we piece together why the DNC was opposed to Hillary? What does D.C. know about Dean’s opposition to her. The woman who was organizing our local
Hillary group (paid by the campaign and also a tireless volunteer) once said that if Nancy Pelosi had good reasons for being opposed to Hillary, then she should tell us. This was when Nancy P. was supposedly “undecided” (but buying off the supers whose districts when for Hillary with Soros money in her PAC). Also, Nancy P. passed on $100,000 of her PAC money to her husband. Is this legal?
Google and read about it.
By “What does D.C. know about Dean’s opposition to Hillary, I was mentioning Heidi Li’s comment:
“Howard Dean made it his goal to destroy the Clintons; this is well-known in DC at least.”
CA voter here… quietly voting McPalin this year… don’t tell anyone!…
Charlotte,
A vote against Obama is a vote against a man who used misogyny (along with voter fraud and race baiting) to win his nomination. To vote for Obama is to condone his blatant and unrepentant misogyny. It is unimaginable that anyone who cherishes women’s rights would vote for Obama.
For those who can’t buck up and vote Republican, fine, vote third party. But I’m going to vote for the man who pays his female staff better than his opponent, the man who has more female staff in top positions than his opponent and the man with the balls to put a woman on his ticket. I’m going to vote Republican for the first time in my life this November because misogyny as ugly as Obama and his minions exhibit must be denounced and discarded.
madahzel and sandra, very interesting. I hear you about the social-reprisals bit. I’ve had them too. I have been told not to hold the nation hostage. Perhaps my perception of Obama support is skewed as my commute takes me through hardcore Obamaland.
I think a great number of McCain supporters are member of Nixon’s “Silent Majority”–you don’t hear from them, they aren’t on tee vee, they don’t stick out signs or slap on bumper stickers. I also think many Obama supporters are too young to remember The Silent Majority and the whipping it delivered McGovern in 1972.
CB,
Great question. I’ve been asking that one a lot recently. What does the DNC have against the Clintons/Hillary and who’s behind it? If it’s Dean, why?!!! What did the Clintons do to Dean? If Dean’s acting for someone else, who is it?
I’m going over to Heidi’s place to see if there’s any more info.
Charlotte, if btw the two there is “no question in your mind that Obama is better for women” then you haven’t been paying attention at all. Here is a reality check: something isn’t true just because you want it to be true.
myiq2xu
“Neither Obama nor his supporters are liberals.
You CANNOT be a liberal and a misogynist at the same time.
Obama and his followers are fauxgressives.”
good point! so true
What I want is for us to stop equating “feminism” with the “left”. For that matter race relations, fiscal responsibility, women’s rights are not the prerogative of any one political faction either. Breaking down that illusion is one silver lining in all the chaos of this presidential election.
Charlotte,
if Obama wins, Hillary will have no shot at the Presidency in 2012. She has to, for political reasons, tell her supporters to vote for Obama.
Personally, I don’t even care about who will be “better for women” or any of those other issues.
It’s a protest vote. Period. What the DNC and Team Obama did is unacceptable and immoral, and it MUST NOT be rewarded. There’s no point discussing issues or the downfall of the entire planet (as my Obot friends keep insisting), those things won’t move me, they are not the reason for my vote this time around.
Are things going to be bad under McCain? Oh yeah, real bad. But they would be under Obama too–or anyone who inherits the junkpile currently waiting in the Oval Office. Whoever gets landed with that garbage is going to regret it: They’re going to be the most hated president in history, topping even George Dubya, I think. Because it’s going to be a MESS, and neither one of them is equipped to handle it or make it better. Neither one, they will both botch it up because it’s not anything BUT botchable.
(Hillary woulda been able to do, though. Sigh.)
“courage of our convictions” ….says it all.
I was appalled by what I learned of Obama in the primaries.
And I’m not changing my standards for the sake of any party line.
McCain is a man of honor and integrity. That meets my standards.
Elixir: Palin is helping women by being a competent vision of a woman running for higher office. Sure the misogynist leftists are mocking her but they mock all women who dare stand for election. Is Palin more qualified that all the men who could have been nominated for VP by the Rs? Probably not but is she less qualified than all the Republican males who could have been nominated? No. It is just as OK for a run of the mill female Gov to run for VP as it is OK for a run of the mill male Senator to run for President. Palin is standing up and taking the abuse for all of us women. She basically took up where Hillary left off and the Misogynist leftists didn’t miss a beat. Of course they don’t oppose all women you know only Hillary and Palin.
I think Senator McCain did great last night. No knock-out, but good. I have lost all hope for Hillary. I know this nomination was stolen from her by our nazi democratic elites this time. I do not think she will run again. After eight years of President Clinton being out of office to find this much hatred as she did and her party turning on her for this puke faced liar, I think she has had enough. I cringe everytime I hear her support the big liar. I think the democratic party is dead. It will take many many years for any credibility to be restored. I myself will never vote democrat again.
You know RD, it was a really strong statement about “ruined Hillary’s career” but I think you are correct, and that is so sad. So very sad indeed — to all of us who supported her.
It’s just unbelievable. RD, I came across something today from a friend of Uppity’s — remember that “bloggers are liars” deal you caught?
Well check this one…
http://deadenders.wordpress.com/
She did it again…apparently.
I mean? It’s very nonfunny at this point.
I think where Hillary has gone wrong is that she needed to call the DNC out? She didn’t. As she works for something that treated her so badly– we can’t help but notice, as women. It goes against everything she has stood for, and that is what is so bad. Sooo bad — starting with those preachers in Chicago and moving on down the line. She should distance herself from the scandal the Democratic party has become. She should know we can’t stand to watch the double bind she has been put in.
That is one of the most horrible things for me to see, for her sake.
ps: on CA voters — many are for McC, quietly — I think our liberal state is in shock at what we’ve seen? Really in shock. I really feel Hillary people will go McC and not just because of Palin.
& McC voted for Ginsberg on Supreme Court? A good sign. I don’t think he can alienate the far right –so he has to be careful what he says — he is so non-Bush. He’s in it for the reforms — that was clear last night. I wish it was he and Hillary — boy did I ever want that when she stepped down last June.
I think he feels for Hillary, like all of us do. The years they have spent together? Years. To see things come down to this?
Ugh.
hugs.
He has ruined Hillary Clinton’s political career.
-Not true at all. She will be back as a Presidential candidate in 2012, in the meantime, she will serve the state of New York and do good work in the Senate.
As an objective African-American voter, I can see clearly how strong that race card was against Hillary.
Can you imagine if she had received the nomination, made her acceptace speech during the anniversary week of Martin Luther King’s speech??
She would have been branded the most racist woman in America, the press would have fed the flames,etc.
But Hillary Clinton has staying power and I don’t doube her capabilities.
What does the DNC have against the Clintons/Hillary and who’s behind it? If it’s Dean, why?!!! What did the Clintons do to Dean? If Dean’s acting for someone else, who is it?
- THIS IS THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION!!
Please, please, if anyone knows the answer, please let us know. Could it really be jealousy???
Oh, and as far as Hillary calling out the DNC?
I trust her judgement, I honestly do. I’m pretty sure that there are things going on behind the scenes and I’m also pretty certain that Obama will get exposed before everything is said and done, and he will have no one to blame but himself.
If Hillary had taken the nomination, I think Obama would have went down as a martyr. Everything happens for a reason. He has the nomination now, and let’s what him get exposed, then clean house in the “Democrat” party.
(Screenshot taken) – Lois Carneiro
Enjoy the memories!–The Management