I came across this op/ed from the Christian Science Monitor. Is this a presidential election or a second 
coming?
Like so many Americans, I feel as though I am holding my breath.
Could the quiet seed of joy that was planted in my heart the day I heard Barack Obama speak for the first time take root and grow without fear of the brutal storms of disappointment?
Could a leader that evokes awe in me actually win a presidential election? Could the beauty – and logic – of his words win over the majority of this country’s voters? Could they see past the lies and distractions to the center of a human being who sincerely wants to invoke citizens’ higher selves?
Could a system that seems so broken, so moneyed, so corrupt actually serve to help the American people elect an authentic, complex thinker? Could it be that – despite all that is wrong with the electoral process – there is enough right to allow a thoughtful candidate to get through the muck and emerge earnest and excited to lead?
Short answer: What are you smoking?
Seriously, this is just too much. Not even the deranged 33%ers who stuck by Bush through his most criminal and corrupt years as President ever sounded this nutty.
But not only that, this person wants you to know that if all of her deluded dreams of grandeur are not fulfilled, it will all be YOUR fault
It is not his inevitable fall from grace that I fear. It is the possibility that on Nov. 4, I will find out that my acute craving for a kind and complex leader is not shared by the majority of Americans. That conclusion to this breathtaking story would tempt me, not just to be alienated from American politics, but from the American people. I fear that the worst part of me would bully the best part with cruel words: “I told you so. Hope is dangerous and naive.”
No, it couldn’t possibly be that you got bamboozled by a used car salesman. That would be too difficult for your fragile psyche to reconcile. Above all this is a childish approach to convincing people to vote your way. If you have a teenager you’ll recongize it right away. It’s the old “I will forever lose my faith in mankind if I don’t get my way” rouse. My advice…same one your “logical and beautiful” candidate gave me: Get over it.
**UPDATE** Zee suggests that maybe the author of this op-ed may have seen Jesus Christ Superstar one too many times …
Filed under: Barack Obama, Media, Presidential Election 2008 Tagged: | are you kidding me?, Cult of Obama, whiners
Rebel
Girl
Not
BTW, GCH — that “article” is downright scary, just like those kids singing for change.
I tricked her into following me into the spam filter by leaving a trail of dixie cups filled with kool-aid.
I have just spent a beautiful day in NE and come back to read some crap from a delusional writer in the Christian Science Monitor! What is wrong with these people and what., in this sham’s empty resume and bio, would lead anyone to assume even remotely that he is up to the task.
I keep missing the what it is they see in him. Maybe it is me who needs the adjustment and a quiet conversation with Dr. Phil.
Heh! Good one, Gary!
What a tool she is. These people don’t think for themselves.
gary – stop answering the door without looking through the peep hole to see if it is the Jehovah Witness’ or Obama cultists.
carol, the pumamobile parked out in front of my house on the street keeps them away!
Dr. Phil is an Oprah creation — don’t consult him, please!
My happiest thought today is my mental health condition brought on by the DNC will soon be covered.
george bush also struck awe in me, but for not very good reasons….awe at his disregard for our constitution.
Horrifyingly this sounds like a whole lot of people I know. Especially the retribution if HE does not win. On a brighter note, several first time teenage voters that I’ve talked to recently are voting a third party. They seem to be equally repulsed by Obama and McCain.
SOD, lol…I’d have already saved about 5000 dollars since june.
The Obama camp is spinning hard on the Ayers relationship.
The Obama supporters really creep me out. Most of them can’t name one thing Obama has accomplished but the think he’ll be a great president because he will inspire us? I’m not looking for inspiration.
I had someone in my family mention today how Obama is for equal pay….I asked why he didn’t pay the women in his own campaign equal to the men. He couldn’t answer of course. I told him that talk is cheap….show me!
MountainSage
Fox is reporting that Ayres and Obama were more or less just casual friends. And my right arm is named Mabel!
Obama was able to shovel lots and lots of money toward Ayres interests while in the IL legislature. Ayres hosted a benefit in his home for Obama when he ran for office. Give me a break!
If this friendship is considered “casual” one only need question what he does on behalf of “close” friends. Not that I see that he has any.
“Could a leader that evokes awe in me actually win a presidential election? Could the beauty – and logic – of his words win over the majority of this country’s voters? Could they see past the lies and distractions to the center of a human being who sincerely wants to invoke citizens’ higher selves?”
What are they smoking indeed! Is this the same pretender/charlatan/bamboozler
that I’ve been watching this year?
I guess it helps to have as little a record of accomplishments as Obie does-
he’s the ultimate blank screen to project your own fantasies on.
SOD: Keep shoveling the food into his mouth and bring out the baby pictures. That should about cover the 2-3 hr meeting. And who knows, he could be an ex by Christmas.
This column would have been naive and rather delusional had it appeared a year ago, before Obama revealed just how much “unity” and “hope” and “positivity” and “beauty” and “change” he really embodied.
But to believe this now, and express it without any reservation or qualification?
Really, it’s practically psychotic. It’s borders on deranged.
Obama is a real and present danger to his supporters who may suffer from diabetes. A little of this over the top adulation is begging for a cure.
Friends here: somebody was kind enough to reference post of mine over at Tapper’s ABC News blog. There is a rather strange person posting there who claims I’m “BSing”. You might want to check out the Tapper post and put in your two cents. The thread could use some thoughtful comments.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/obama-about-to.html
This, by the way, is the post that got referenced on Tapper. It has been drawing some powerful reactions, 99.9 per cent positive, all very intense.
http://tdg.typepad.com/heidi_lis_potpourri/2008/10/what-is-the-quality-of-your-intent.html
I don’t mean to be off topic, by the way. It seems to me that writer in CSM is having a little problem understanding the quality of Senator Obama’s intent.
Mountain Sage – they will demand Hillary to work hard to make sure that Obama is a great president. If he isn’t it will be her fault.
Acute craving?
They have clinics for that…
sod – take notes for your daughter’s new boyfriend.
Downticket, on October 4th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Of course: because nothing is ever Sen. Obama’s fault and everything is Sen. Clinton’s. This is an eternal truth according to the ONE.
what is the name of that bad writing contest that plays on the “it was a dark and stormy night” intro??? that second paragraph could win first place…
time for PUMAS to put out a press release re ACORN fraud. it might get some media attention. read all for explicit listing of BO’s connections:
4 Oct: Marketwatch: RNC: Obama & Acorn Fact Sheet
The Acorn/Obama Rhetoric
Many Voter Applications, Submitted By ACORN, Appear To Be Fraudulent And Are Being Withheld By Seminole County’s Elections Supervisor Until They Are Proven Legitimate. “Local elections officials are looking into potential election fraud and some of the information is pointing to a Democratic-leaning voter’s group. ACORN … has been registering thousands of new voters for this year’s election, but in Seminole County, some voter applications are being withheld until it’s proven they’re legitimate. … Seminole County’s elections supervisor is holding up dozens of voter registration applications because they appear to be fraudulent: wrong addresses, bad signatures and more. … Many of the applications with suspect information were turned-in by the activist group ACORN.” (“Elections Officials Look Into Voter Fraud,” WESH Orlando, 9/23/08)
“ACORN Admits That They Had A Case Of Voter Fraud Happen This Week In Seminole County,” Florida. “ACORN admits that they had a case of voter fraud happen this week in Seminole County, but say they have since fired that employee and the faulty registration has been thrown out.” (Susie Hassan, “ACORN Blamed For Florida Voter Fraud,” WZVN-HD ABC News, 9/25/08)
In Clark County, Nevada, ACORN Allegedly Submits 2,000 To 3,000 Fraudulent Applications Each Week. “ACORN, which stands for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, claims to have collected 60,000 new voter registrations in Clark County since February. The group, which works to promote the interests of lower-income people, is aiming for 100,000 by Labor Day. … The group has drawn accusations of voter fraud and criminal investigations in several states. Last year, authorities in Washington state brought felony charges against ACORN workers for filing false voter registrations. Some ACORN workers pleaded guilty and went to jail, while the organization paid $25,000 and agreed to have its registration efforts monitored in a settlement with Washington state authorities. [Clark County Registrar of Voters Larry] Lomax said while he supports the goal of getting more people registered to vote, he sees rampant fraud in the 2,000 to 3,000 registrations ACORN turns in every week.” (Molly Ball, “New Voter Sign-Ups Up,” Las Vegas Review-Journal, 7/7/08)
Nevada State Officials Are Teaming With Federal Authorities To Investigate Voter Fraud, Particularly Applications Submitted By ACORN. “Nevada state and federal authorities on Thursday announced the formation of a task force that will aggressively pursue allegations of election fraud. The secretary of state, attorney general, U.S. attorney’s office and Federal Bureau of Investigation plan to work together as the election approaches and on Election Day to ensure a free and fair election in Nevada, where record turnout is anticipated. ‘This is part of an effort to work proactively,’ Secretary of State Ross Miller, the state’s chief elections official, said of the combined effort, which he said would ‘ensure there is integrity in the system.’ Miller said investigators are already looking into allegations of fraud in voter registration, though he declined to go into specifics of an investigation he suggested was being handled by the FBI. Clark County officials have said they suspect fraud is occurring in the thousands of voter registrations being submitted by the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, which works to get low-income people to vote. ACORN, whose officials have faced fraud charges in other states, says the group’s workers are trained to follow the law.” (Molly Ball, “Election Fraud Task Force Formed,” Las Vegas Review-Journal, 8/1/08)
In New Mexico, Dona Ana County Officials “Received Complaints About Misleading Voter Registration Activities.” “The Dona Ana County Bureau of Elections has received complaints about misleading voter-registration activities and wants to make sure the public knows the truth about registering. Elections Supervisor Lynn Ellins said in a news release from the county that the ‘most disturbing’ complaint is from people who say they are being told they must re-register to vote under a new law passed by the state Legislature. ‘This is simply not true,’ Ellins said. ‘Any voter who is registered and in good standing has no obligation to re-register.’” (Heath Haussamen, “Complaints In Dona Ana County,” The New Mexico Independent, 6/11/08)
Dona Ana County Spokesman Jess Williams Said That ACORN Is Responsible For Many Of The Complaints About The Voter Re-Registration Scheme. “County spokesman Jess Williams said many of the complaints are about the Association of Community Organizations for Reform, more commonly known as ACORN. The group has been actively trying to register voters in Dona Ana County in recent months. It has also received national attention in recent years for allegations in other states of voter fraud and shoddy work … ” (Heath Haussamen, “Complaints In Dona Ana County,” The New Mexico Independent, 6/11/08)
In New Mexico, 1,100 Fraudulent Voter-Registration Cards Were Reported And ACORN Acknowledges That Some May Have Come From Its Group. “Such is the situation for Bernalillo County, which reported, the day before Obama’s Espanola rally, that it had received 1,100 fraudulent voter-registration cards. While there is no information, yet, on where those cards came from, Matthew Henderson, ACORN’s New Mexico head organizer, acknowledges some could have come from his group. ACORN, he says, has registered 75,000 New Mexicans during this election cycle.” (Mark Sanders, “Attempts To Rock The Vote, Rock The Boat,” Santa Fe Reporter, 9/24/08)
Ninety Voter Registration Forms That Included Social Security Numbers And Dates Of Birth Were Stolen From ACORN’s Las Cruces Office. “Ninety completed voter-registration applications that included Social Security numbers and dates of birth were stolen over the weekend from the Las Cruces office of an independent voter-registration group. As a result, ACORN plans to send letters to those whose applications were stolen to inform them of the situation.” (Heath Haussamen, “Completed Voter-Registration Forms Stolen From Group,” “Heath Haussamen On New Mexico Politics” Blog, haussamen.blogspot.com, 6/24/08)
In North Carolina, Durham County’s Elections Director, Mike Ashe, Has Asked That Approximately 80 Voter Registration Forms Submitted by ACORN Be Investigated For Suspicions Of Fraud. “A Durham official is asking state elections administrators to check approximately 80 voter registration forms for possible fraud. … Mike Ashe, Durham County’s elections director, said the forms were among about 4,000 submitted to his office over the past four to six weeks by a national left-wing group called Acorn … Ashe’s staff also learned this week of irregularities with a handful of other registrations. It was not clear who was responsible for these problems. … ‘This is serious, obviously,’ Ashe said.” (Matthew E. Milliken, “Elections Chief Asks For Voter Fraud Probe,” The Herald [NC] Sun, 9/19/08)
In Cuyahoga County, OH, ACORN Is Under Investigation By Election Officials Due To “Many Suspicious” Voter Registration Cards. “A national organization that conducts voter registration drives for low-income people has curtailed its push in Cuyahoga County after the Board of Elections accused its workers of submitting fraudulent registration cards. The board is investigating the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. Results of the inquiry could be turned over to the county prosecutor. Board employees said ACORN workers often handed in the same name on a number of voter registration cards, but showing that person living at different addresses. Other times, cards had the same name listed, but a different date of birth. Still another sign of possible fraud showed a number of people living at an address that turned out to be a restaurant. … Board employees are unsure how many of the cards are fraudulent. But the voter registration department received so many suspicious cards that it began compiling a binder with evidence. The binder grew to be an inch-thick.” (Joe Guillen, “Cuyahoga Board Probes ACORN Voter Registration Drive,” The [Cleveland, OH] Plain Dealer, 8/27/08)
— “‘I’m Obviously Very Concerned,’ Board Chairman Jeff Hastings said.
‘This Goes To The Essence Of Our Democracy.’”(Joe Guillen, “Cuyahoga
Board Probes ACORN Voter Registration Drive,” The [Cleveland, OH] Plain
Dealer, 8/27/08)
In Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Election Officials Accused ACORN “Of Filing Fraudulent Voter Registrations” But The Group Blames The Post Office. “Philadelphia elections officials are accusing the nonprofit advocacy group ‘Acorn’ of filing fraudulent voter registrations in advance of the April 22nd Pennsylvania primary. Acorn, which advocates on behalf of low-income residents in the city, has mounted a voter registration drive in the past few months. But city election commissioners are complaining that many of the submitted registrations appear to be faulty, and they have forwarded the matter to the district attorney’s office for further investigation. … The city officials say many of the addresses listed on the registrations are invalid, but Acorn blames the post office for not adequately servicing low-income communities.” (Mike Dunn, “Phila. Probing Advocacy Group’s Voter Registrations,” KYW Newsradio, http://www.kyw1060.com, 3/12/08)
One Pennsylvania ACORN Worker Is Facing “19 Counts Of Perjury, Making False Statements, Forgery And Identity Theft” Related To Voter Registration Forms. “A former temporary worker for a national community action group recently questioned by Dauphin County investigators about bogus voter registration forms is now a wanted man. Luis R. Torres-Serrano, 37, of the 200 block of South 15th Street, is accused by authorities of submitting more than 100 fraudulent voter registration forms he collected on behalf of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now to county election officials. … Torres-Serrano is charged with 19 counts of perjury, making false statements, forgery and identity theft in connection with the voter registration forms, authorities said.” (Reggie Sheffield, “Former Temp Worker Accused Of Bogus Voter Registrations,”[Harrisburg, PA] Patriot News, 7/24/08)
Milwaukee Election Officials Launched An Investigation Against ACORN For “Making People Up Or Registering People That Were Still In Prison.” “Criminal investigations could be launched against at least six voter registration workers who tried to add dead, imprisoned or imaginary people to the voter rolls, according to the Milwaukee Election Commission and the organization that employed them. Officials are reviewing some 200 to 300 fraudulent voter registration cards, Sue Edman, the commission’s executive director, said Wednesday. … In about 12 cases, deputy registrars paid by ACORN were ‘making people up or registering people that were still in prison,’ said Carolyn Castore, ACORN’s state political director. And in other cases, workers used the same address for numerous voters or used driver’s license numbers that did not fit the voters’ birth dates, Edman said. But most of the fraud involved submitting duplicate cards for voters who were already registered, and forging the voters’ signatures, Castore said.” (Larry Sandler, “Fake Names Get Voter Registration Workers Investigated,” Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 8/7/08)
All Voter Fraud Instances Under Investigation By Milwaukee Officials Are Linked To “Two Liberal Groups” – ACORN And The Community Voters Project. “Milwaukee’s election chief on Wednesday turned 32 more voter registration workers in to the district attorney’s office for possible prosecution, saying they tried to submit falsified registration cards. That brings to 39 the number of registration workers under scrutiny, and the number could grow, Election Commission Executive Director Sue Edman said. An organization warned the commission staff late Wednesday afternoon about some questionable cards in the latest batch collected by its workers, Edman said. All of the workers targeted for investigation were paid employees of two liberal groups running voter registration drives, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) and the Community Voters Project.” (Larry Sandler, “More Voter Registration Workers Under Scrutiny,” Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 8/21/08)
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/rnc-obama–acorn-fact/story.aspx?guid=%7B29569FA1-136D-4B95-9D51-4EF9E87ED547%7D&dist=hppr
The Tapper thread is full of Obamabots but here’s a comment that really rings true:
If the “media” hadn’t covered up the real story of Obama until two weeks before the voting event — it’s become difficult to consider what’s about to happen as an election — he wouldn’t BE the supposedly-”Democratic” nominee.
The “press” has delivered us fascism. Thanks a lot.
[from Belle Starr]
Just read that piece of malarkey – here’s the funny part
I remember that was Dean’s schtick – did they transfer it in their imagination to Teh Precious?
What time is Sarah speaking? I need to get on the treadmill and watch Sex and the City before the USC game starts.
Pat
So, Fox is now following the meme NY Times set and preempting the effectiveness of any McCain attack on Obama’s associates?
Just like they took down one of McCain’s ads of you tube because it featured one of their “non-partisan reporters”. Does everyone see the fix or not?
Creepy. kind of like those kids singing…
I want to alert people like the pumas from CA and anyone else to a place I just set up for essays from people in our state who are voting for McC. It’s all about getting the concerns out in essay form and leaving a document about that? We need to.
I’ve never been anything except a Dem since Reagan. There are more like me I’m sure in my State with hugely raised eyebrows over this whole deal this year — we were for Hillary out here, not him.
Pass it along okay — to your writer friends in California! maybe in 4 weeks it can be like Confluence west? But if not — it will be a document of all kinds of voices and perspectives that we need right now.
hugs RD and Co. We’ve never experienced anything like this year. Never. It’s sad, creepy and stolen from Hillary. Here tis:
http://californiaagainstobama.wordpress.com/
Everytime I try to figure out why people believe that Obama is the “one”, as Oprah said, I can only think that they are truly searching for one good honest politician. That is why it has stressed me out so much this election , thinking how disappointed those same people will be when they find out that he is just a man that has deceived them so thoroughly. That will sting .
frankly0, I’m with you. Deranged. The writer is someone who is disconnected from reality.
I was talking with my daughter about the obots this morning. It’s interesting the hostility that emanates from that camp. This is what Obama “inspires”: hostility and blind adulation. For a minute I had contemplated creating a “Brown Shirts for Obama” t-shirt until it dawned on me that the obots may actually like that idea.
I just keep hoping that there are enough sane and reasonable Americans who will show up at the polls on election day and vote against Obama.
Someone on Fox just copied my mantra this morning: if California needs money they can start drilling off shore!
(Sarah can also loan them the money from Alaska’s $9 Billion surplus she has in the treasury of her state.)
CAROL HAKA
chay, they will not care. One of the polling outfits (I forget which) did a poll a couple of months ago in which they asked Obama supporters if they would change their mind if he no longer supported progressive taxation, no longer supported gay rights, no longer supported choice, etc. They laid out a bunch of positions.
The upshot of the entire poll was that 60% of Obama supporters said they would vote for him even if he changed his position on EVERY SINGLE ISSUE.
Now, tell me that is not a cult of personality?
You know, back in July when I first videotaped Murphy and Riverdaughter in Princeton, so much of their discussion began to take on shades of the “cult-oriented” research of Conway and Siegleman in their book “Snapping” that I momentarily stopped taping and asked them if they’d read that particular work. Neither had, as it turned out. When the interview resumed, I began to hear from them echos of another book, this one by Joe McGinniss, called “The Selling Of The President, 1968.” In THAT book, the author explores in depth they way in which Richard Nixon was sold, Madison Avenue-Style, to the American people. The book got it all right, and is still quite a rattling read today.
All of that aside, I think that many of us sometimes forget just how seductive a figure Obama is to a huge number of Americans. And he is the perfect television presence: like the late Johnny Carson, he is cool, understated, low key. A hot presence is wrong for television because it is a hi-rez assault on the eye and ear, whereas a cooler presence makes us want to draw nearer, like an interesting person speaking in a soft voice. His youth and easy manner are incredible likable to most Americans. I know that I have found him to be very moving on one or two occasions.
I think it would be a good idea for PUMAs to bone up on media theory. I think that the Christian Science Monitor article is useful, because it provides a clear path to the inner-workings of people that PUMAs are trying to reach. Richard Feynman, the great physicist, used to try and put himself in an electron’s shoes and then ask himself “Now that I’m an electron, what do I want to do?”
Anyway, Lorenda has an idea for a TV commercial she wants to do for the election. If we manage to get it done, I’ll let you all know.
WMCB – good – then they are almost ecstatic as he has changed his mind!
That line made me laugh too. I just want to be able to say to her: The only concern Obama has for you is your vote. That’s it. After that you’re on your own… sweetie.
Are you sure Fox is undermining Mac attack on O’s associations? I sure see a lot of Fox reporting going into the opposite—bringing up these associations and questioning them. They have had interviews with the guy who is investigating the Annenberg papers two or three times in the last two weeks.
The “kind and complex leader” that she yearns for becomes the fictional character she has created in her own mind, her prince charming, her hero, sweet and wise. She knows it’s not real, but she’s hoping, holding on, afraid that someone might take the dream away, and then there will be nothing but despair. Just her sad, empty life. It’s the collective dream so many Obama followers dream while awake. It’s a poignant statement of the lack of meaning in people’s lives in this complex, alienated society. Deep down they know it cannot be true but they don’t want others to wake them up. It’s such a beautiful dream…
WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE TURN ON THE LIGHTS AND HELP PUT A STOP TO THIS NONSENSE!
Not a single Obama supporter has given me one good reason to vote for Obama (“Change!”).
Not a single one of them has been able to name one good thing he’s done (“He’s done a lot of good things!”).
Not a single one of them can fathom that someone could possibly not want to vote for him (“You can’t vote for McCain!” – Oh, yes I can.).
But many of them have either gone bat-mad crazy on me and/or spewed the usual anti-Palin lies that have all been debunked.
These people are crazy, and crazy is not a good campaign strategy.
I swear, I really feel like I’m living in some kind of upside-down world where people can’t see what is right in front of them!!! I want to shake people into reality sometimes, and what makes it worse is that some of these people are my good friends.
Forget “Morning in America”, it’s 1930 in Germany folks.
Gary – http://www.bulwer-lytton.com/
“It was a dark, stormy night…”
Gary…damn. You must’ve been sifting through the “crazy tank” to find that one.
Gary…perfect title!! Creepy indeed.
One of the posters here mentioned a Huffington post that was so far out I had to check it out myself. It was how Biden’s tears had done more for feminism than a woman running for VP could ever do.
These people are SICK. The article was even worse than I imagined. The deranged woman said that O’Messiah had paved the way for Biden’s tears of fem-salvation. You have to see the quote for yourselves to believe it:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leah-mcelrath-renna/joes-tears-the-political_b_131460.html
“….Barack Obama paved the way for this when he talked about fighting for equal pay for equal work because he wants “my daughters to have the same opportunities as your sons” — and said this while looking with protective ferocity straight into the camera.”
Is this wench for real? Talk about projecting. Hey, sister…maybe you need a candidate you can daydream about and fantasize about his “protective ferocity” but count me the hell out of your fainting-couch politics.
Does anyone else hear the strains of “I-i-i-i-i don’t know how to looooooovvvvve him….” from Jesus Christ Superstar while reading “said while looking with protective ferocity straight into my heart—I mean, the camera…”
I hear you, Julie.
I’ve just gotten one of those “good news/bad news” calls. Any suggestions?
Bradmays – Obama isn’t “cool”, he’s downright cold, and when off-script, frequently incoherent. It’s the MSM which have insisted on portraying him as being otherwise. Obama is nothing BUT a media creation, a rather monstrous one in many ways.
Zee, that is hilarious! Yeah, these women all seem to envision themselves as Mary Magdalene to the Savior. Gawd. It’s creepy.
Maybe I am immune to the Obama “mystique” because I know exactly WHO I AM, and have for years. I don’t need anyone to lead me to a higher place or save my political soul. Funny, but a lot of the female bots I know are the same ones who keep falling into bad relationships in general. It’s sad.
Maybe the author of this article needs to read “Women Who Love Too Much” by Robin Norwood to get her get over her addition to BO.
Say you disagree, but that since you and he are just getting to know one another perhaps a different topic is better choice for early conversation.
Just my advice.
Holy shit, I’m thinking we have to vote for this motherfucker just to end this kind of delusional thinking. I want to see the look on this damn, gullible moron’s face when obama does the inevitable. Over and over again.
I want a new planet. I want out.
kat5
Well said. Obama’s “coolness” is a myth, just like W’s “likability”
I remember very well the times when Rev Wright dominated the airwaves – the time it took the media to clean it all for him – Obama was quite “uncool” he snapped at reporters “C’mon guys, i answered 8 questions” and was generally irritable and surly. Or the time he was interrupted from eating his waffle. Or when he snubbed Hillary in the Senate. The many dirty looks he gives that show on pics. He gives me the impression that I could push his buttons extremely easy – just puncture that enormous ego and everything goes.
“….Barack Obama paved the way for this when he talked about fighting for equal pay for equal work because he wants “my daughters to have the same opportunities as your sons” — and said this while looking with protective ferocity straight into the camera.”
My husband said it this morning. They are part of a cult. They will follow that man off a cliff. What I don’t get is WHAT has he done for ANY of these people? It’s really, really scary. The bastard doesn’t even pay women as much as he does men. You bet he looked at the camera with ‘ferocity”…just to underscore what a piece of lying piece of filth he really is. Problem is, most his “kool-anders” don’t believe that the Little Lord could be dishonest about anything. It’s unbelievable.
Zee
That reminds me of a joke Bill Maher made – in 2000 I think – when rationalizing it for W (anyone but Gore ws good for him, nader pretenses notwithstanding”
Avoid talking politics at all costs
Here’s the thing: we need to ask ourselves “what is the specific need Obama is fulfilling?” I mean, this question is the key to everything. And we cannot settle for the first few things that pop into our heads. What is it that Obama is providing that makes his followers suspend all self-awareness and critical thinking and engage in the various behaviors they engage in, from the Texas primary malfeasance to the misogyny?
Obama is providing something real to these people, and I don’t think any of us has a complete picture of just what that something is! I repeat physicist Richard Feynman’s famous metal exercise: “I’m an electron. What do I want to do?”
fooj, on October 4th, 2008 at 6:41 pm Said:
“….Barack Obama paved the way for this when he talked about fighting for equal pay for equal work because he wants “my daughters to have the same opportunities as your sons” — and said this while looking with protective ferocity straight into the camera.”
WTF are they talking about? These people are so freaking uninformed. What a joke! Obama paved the way for equal pay?! That’s just silly.
zee…I added a video to the post for you !!!!
Obama’s position is to never lead, to always talk out of both sides of his mouth, and to never really break with his fellow accomplices in crime, the DNC Elite.
The DNC elite and Barack Obama joined hands, grabbed the knife, and gleefully stabbed Hillary Clinton and the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party in the back.
It is time for all of us to rise up and tell Obama and the DNC Elite, “YOU CAN”T HAVE OUR VOTES AND YOU NEVER WILL!”
I pray enough of us will be able to make the difference in this election.
There are millions of Hillary Clinton supporters in America feel the same way. We are not alone. We are a movement that is just beginning to be unleashed against Obama. It is up to us to take back the Democratic Party. That cause statrts with sending Obama and his thugs straight back to Chicago where he belongs.
I don’t know about you all, but I can’t wait to cast my vote for McCain-Palin! I liken it as my sense of duty as an American citizen.
Country first?
You doggone right, country first!!
NOBAMA!!
Zee, on October 4th, 2008 at 6:20 pm Said:
Does anyone else hear the strains of “I-i-i-i-i don’t know how to looooooovvvvve him….” from Jesus Christ Superstar while reading “said while looking with protective ferocity straight into my heart—I mean, the camera…”
__________
Thanks for ruining a perfectly good song. I loved that album. Sigh.
People are beginning to figure it out:
“OH-OH …EXPECT FIREWORKS … BIG TIME!!
by Greta Van Susteren
Just got this email from FNC embed producer….as soon as it came in and I saw it, my eyes popped out!! I know this woman!! I read it to my husband…and he agrees! This endorsement is going to really going to cause a storm!! Hang on to your seat! Read!
From: Gomez, Serafin
To:
Sent: Sat Oct 04 18:05:43 2008
Subject: Head of NOW. LA chapter Endorses Palin
Carson, CA-
The head of the LA chapter of National Organization for Women has just endorsed Gov Palin @ campaign rally. Not speaking NOW or her chapter she said but as an individual. ” This is what a feminist looks like,” she just before handing it over to SLP.
Serafin Gomez
Producer, FNC Political Unit
Washington Bureau”
Told ya so, Told ya so, Told ya so ………….
CAROL HAKA
OT: I just got home from the grocery store. The tabloids (this includes Newsweek) lining the register have negative stories about McCain or Palin.
Gary,
Sadly, the writer of that op-ed also writes for the American Prospect on-line, and it looks like she is the author of a book about young girls with anorexia. I hope she doesn’t have a daughter or have influence over anyone elses daughters.
“Courtney E. Martin is the author of “Perfect Girls, Starving Daughters” and a columnist for The American Prospect Online.”
You are scaring me, edgeoforever!! “Women love someone who would kill for them” Maybe Maher had a point. A veteran who looked like a cross between Hulk Hogan and the Rock made a pass at me, and I was slightly terrified. But, I kept annoying my friends by repeating….hmmmmm…..a boyfriend who could kill for me…wow…
(This is no slur on veterans, btw, who have ALWAYS been there for me when I have been out protesting. I refer more to his training and physical prowess)
But, as far as this woman’s projecting onto Obama. As if. The most he would do for anyone is throw an extra someone under the bus.
And WMCB, re “these women all seem to envision themselves as Mary Magdalene to the Savior”
…they should take Michelle Obama at her word on how “protective” Barack is. She said that she and their daughters rarely see Obama but on weekends, and I’m sure it’s less than that now. Altho maybe the Magdalenes would not care…
“what is the specific need Obama is fulfilling?”
I truly believe that he’s looked upon by some (whether consciously or unconsciously I’m not sure) as a secular pseudo-Messiah.
He’ll change stones into bread and turn water into wine, and give us health insurance too.
Obama’s going to “change it and rearrange it,” as kids are taught to sing about him.
The fact that kids were also taught to sing about such leaders as Hitler, Stalin and Mao seems to have been ominously forgotten.
bradmaysfilmmaker, on October 4th, 2008 at 6:51 pm Said:
Here’s the thing: we need to ask ourselves “what is the specific need Obama is fulfilling?”
Brad, it’s obvious, a sense of community. Why does college football have more rabid supporters than national? Community. It’s almost funny. Look, affluent, liberal voters often are not very rooted in their communities. They don’t go to church much. They move around. They don’t know their neighbors. That’s why they love a college football game. Root for the old team. Sing the fight song. Belong to something bigger than themselves for a little while, and it doesn’t take a lot of time or effort. That’s Obama. he’s basically run his election like a Christian parable, and these folks feel like they belong to something bigger than their own lives, without taking up much of their own time. What’s so funny to me is how many of my atheist friends are taken up with Obama, and they don’t see that he is paralleling his campaign to the Messiah. But that’s what it is. A sense of belonging to a movement, community, something bigger than themselves, without alot of cost.
bostonboomer. that is scary.
zee, st teresa of avila never even saw jesus and they apparently had quite the spicy love life…
According to her website, Courtney Martin is a “feminist.” What is it with all these so-called feminists falling head over heels for the misogynistic Obama?
Arianna Huffington wrote a blurb for her book too. Ugh.
“I don’t know about you all, but I can’t wait to cast my vote for McCain-Palin!”
Me too, IronMan.
At first, I was going to sit this one out or find some third-party nut to vote for. Then the same bile they flung at Hillary went flying at Sarah. And I thought, I’ll reluctantly vote for a Republican just this once as a protest vote against Obama and his media thugs. But at this point, save for a few social policy differences, I actually like McCain and Palin. I like hearing that America is a good place, even though I know it can be better.
And although I like Biden, too, these Obama singing cult children videos creep me out. Hillary supporters are devoted, but not fanatic.
McCain 2008, Clinton 2012.
brady — I think that you are right — Obama is providing something “real” to these people, just like Charles Manson & Jim Jones provided something “real” to their followers. The reality is that these men were able to provides something “real” to their followers because their followers were damaged people desperate to be made “whole” and, unfortunately for them, unaware that that need must be fulfilled within themselves, not from any outside person. Yes, I actually do equate a large percentage of Obama’s followers to those of Manson & Jones — the similarities in their blind devotion, their inability to recognize any criticism in their leader or to acknowledge any flaws in him. Unfortunately, I doubt anyone can combat this short of intense psychotherapy. If these people do not realize that only they can “heal their own souls” and that even if someone else could, it most certainly is NOT a politician who can do it, how can anyone make them see that?
gary – who is that – Sarah Brightman????
Carol,
That’s wonderful. My faith in some feminists is now restored.
You should publish this in the Monitor:
The Monitor welcomes your letters. All submissions will be considered for publication and must include your first and last name, city and state, and telephone number. All letters to be published are subject to editing and condensing. We generally run letters of 200 words or fewer in length. Any letter accepted will appear in the print publication and on http://www.csmonitor.com.
http://www.csmonitor.com/cgi-bin/encryptmail.pl?ID=CFF0C5E4&url=/2008/1003/p09s01-coop.html
carol, yes. actually I really hope I’m not ruining a perfectly good song for anyone.
Gary…..LMAO!!!!! Complete with Chinese subtitles and all!
Lisadawn, I’m sorry…what can I say…that song actually popped into my head when I was writing the post. I love the song, too….
“Head of NOW. LA chapter Endorses Palin”
AWESOME!
”This is what a feminist looks like,”
Suddenly someone at NOW remembers: Feminism is allegiance to equality, not to the Democratic Party.
I second masslib’s comments as well.
masslib, on October 4th, 2008 at 7:07 pm Said:
It is no mistake that Obama uses religious references in his speeches. This is exactly the tactics used by men like Jim Jones, Manson, etc.
JohninCA -
Yes, but beyond that? I mean, the evangelical aspect of Obama’s campaign jumps right out at you. And Obama is hardly the first to resonate in that way.
What I’m calling for is an IN-DEPTH look at what Obama provides his followers. And if it IS just a matter of being a cult leader (and I don’t think it is, frankly), then by what SPECIFIC mechanism do his followers call into their trance (read the book SNAPPING by Conway and Seigleman for a definitive look into that subject)?
Maybe someone in here or elsewhere has exhausted this notion and I missed it, but I think that’s unlikely. Personally, I think that my fundamental question could be the subject for for fully-implemented social research.
When I read Gary’s post, these are the things that started jumping out at me.
Have a good weekend.
“what is the specific need Obama is fulfilling?”
I don’t see Obama as filling any specific need in this country. I see a more or less atomized culture grasping at straws, with the lying MSM conveniently lining the manger (whatever their agenda). Obama, to me, marks the nadir of critical thinking, the apex of confusion. He is a self-admitted cipher who represents precisely nothing, and therein lies his luck.
@ bradmays: “I think it would be a good idea for PUMAs to bone up on media theory. . . . Here’s the thing: we need to ask ourselves ‘what is the specific need Obama is fulfilling?’ I mean, this question is the key to everything. And we cannot settle for the first few things that pop into our heads. What is it that Obama is providing that makes his followers suspend all self-awareness and critical thinking and engage in the various behaviors they engage in, from the Texas primary malfeasance to the misogyny? Obama is providing something real to these people, and I don’t think any of us has a complete picture of just what that something is!”
Totally agree. Too often, though, it seems that people would rather kill the messenger.
He gives me the impression that I could push his buttons extremely easy – just puncture that enormous ego and everything goes.
I got the same impression from him during the primary. Just push the right buttons and he will self distract. I think the key to stopping him might be Palin pushing these buttons. Remember the lipstick remark. He can’t help himself
In other words, Obama is whatever the dazed and confused prefer he represent to them.
beautiful – she is one of my very favorites – her voice just sounds a little weak in this video – Argentina makes me crazy when I hear her sing that. She is awesome.
Carol….thanks for the bit of good news!
Also….no clue what HAKA means, but I’ve always liked it and the PUMA icon which gazes out with “protective ferocity!!!” Ha.
Did Arnold meet Sarah in California???????///
HAKA – our pre-war dance!
masslib,
Again, I think you are on the right track, but I don’t think your answer is a complete one (hey, I could be wrong). Your answer is thoughtful, but not sufficiently penetrative – it’s only part of the picture.
I’m not trying to be dismissive here, just shake this up a bit. I feel like that Dylan line:
“Yonder stands your orphan with his gun, crying like a fire in the sun.”
Watching end of Pretty Woman – I love that movie!
Kat,
I am in complete disagreement with you.
I can see being mesmerized by Sarah Brightman,
( and JC Superstar was never my cuppa, I always hated it LOL ) … but bo , o dear goddess no no no no no…
When Richard Gere and Kevin Costner kiss a woman on screen, damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, they have been kissed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
I thought cheeleading for Obama in any fashion was banned on this site!!!!!!!!!
carol I thought i read something about kevin costner and richard gere kissing on screen…. I’d pay to see that
bradmaysfilmmaker, well, I just read something my old prof Glen Lowry said. He said Obama offers voters cheap grace. I think that’s part of it.
bradmaysfilmmaker, some say what Obama provides is what the listener needs. He is all things to all people. If this is true, we cannot identify any one thing as Obama is a true camillion.
Ah, but bradmays, masslib and I are basically on the same track. What has Obama done to cause voters to see him as offering a ‘sense of community’?
Absolutely nothing. So masslib’s sense of community, if valid, is being made up of whole cloth. We’re back to Obama being the ultimate cipher.
Sorry gary, they are all mine separately, don’t tell Eddy.
masslib -
That’s good. That’s part of it. But Bush provided the same thing to HIS followers.
Cheap grace. Great phrase.
Thanks for the advice.
I think we all agree Obama fulfills some need in people to follow a messianic figure, much like the Bush voters. That much we know.
Ah, cheap grace – I’m writing that one in lipstick on the mirror. Thanks, masslib.
Kat5
I’m not trying to be argumentative, but just because you don’t see Obama offering anything to his followers doesn’t mean his followers aren’t receiving anything.
What I’m looking for is a way to start examining this through a non-adversarial thought process.
@bradmaysfilmmaker:
OK, I’ll give it a try.
1. For some older white boomers, Obama represents the return of JFK. For the same group, especially those in the MoveOn contingent, he represents a safe way to demonize the white working class by calling them out on their presumed racism. This is a twofer: they get to vent their frustrations with a bloc of sometimes Democratic voters who hark back to the New Deal (instead of looking forward to whatever Brave New World the neolibs envision), and they get to flaunt their own presumed superiority in matters of racial tolerance.
2. For the older set of white boomer men and some white men born between roughly 1960 and 1970, Obama is a safe outlet of repressed homoeroticism. For the older ones (those born roughly 1946-1960), that outlet is especially appreciated, because this group is still more affected than the others by the myth of black male superiority. Obama is half white, so they can feel not quite so outclassed while still dominating the black man through their very support of his candidacy (that is, they are, as voters for “Barack,” in the position of benevolent white masters).
I could go on but will let someone else take a turn, if anyone is so inclined.
And by the way, I’m not at all saying that most or even any of these feelings and motivations are particularly conscious.
For the first time the aol polls BO. What is particularly upsetting to me is that by a margin of 56 to 44% people said that bring up Ayers is unfair to BO and by a margin of 61 to 39% that it will hurt the Mc Palin ticket to raise the issue.
Why isn’t anyone bringing up Khalidi and Abunimah? People need fresh meat to toss around. How come no one mentions them on this blog?
NH -
That’s also a big part of it, thanks. But it’s not the whole picture. Oh well, I’ve done enough mischief for one night.
Thanks, one and all.
I say Obama is a cheap but effective marketing campaign that ultimately won’t pay off in the end. People usually return an empty box back to the store.
CAROL HAKA
Palomino -
Now we’re getting somewhere!
@bradmays:
I don’t know how else to contact you. Would you be interested in writing your idea up for my blog?
http://palomino-paddock.blogspot.com/
Zee, on October 4th, 2008 at 7:14 pm Said:
Gary…..LMAO!!!!! Complete with Chinese subtitles and all!
Lisadawn, I’m sorry…what can I say…that song actually popped into my head when I was writing the post. I love the song, too….
______________________
That’s okay. Electroshock therapy doesn’t wonders these days. No, not for me, for the Obots. I’ll just have to suffer through the song now.
Palomino -
Be happy to. My e-mail address is: brad@bradmays.com
I went to your site. Impressive. I’ve got to run right now but I’ll try and cook something up for you for tomorrow.
Thanks.
That would be does wonders. Sigh.
What happened to the young oprah singer from England????????/
My message to John and Sarah on William Ayers:
Obama says he was only 8 years old when William Ayers was out there blowing up the Pentagon and other domestic targets. He was NOT 8 YEARS OLD when he attended a fund raiser in Ayers home to launch his political career and fund raising. He was NOT 8 YEARS OLD when he accepted the position of President of the Board for the Chicago Annenberg project that was written and directed by Williams Ayers. He was NOT 8 YEARS OLD when he attended Board meetings of the CAC with Williams Ayers. He was NOT 8 YEARS OLD when he spoke on panels with William Ayers. He was NOT 8 YEARS OLD when he sat at Board meetings of the CAC and received reports that the education reform plan being designed by William Ayers was NOT IMPROVING STUDENT LEARNING DESPITE MILLIONS OF ANNENBERG DOLLARS. He was NOT 8 YEARS OLD when as President of the CAC Board he presided over the distribution of millions of education reform dollars to political activist organizations which wound up being used for political action, NOT EDUCATION REFORM.
I don’t believe Obama followers ARE receiving anything from Obama, other than the illusion that they are in fact receiving something. Again, there is no prevalent Obama message or image or belief or philosophy or anything like this. Obama seems to “be” whatever his followers prefer him to represent, at whatever moment, in order for him to achieve his own ends. Therefore, one could make a whole laundry list of ‘why’ voters are drawn to him, a list which, in the end, has very little coherence or logic attached. This is why it’s nearly impossible to use logic in trying to counter Obama’s ‘appeal’.
A more answerable question to ask: what is the MSM’s motive for promoting him?
Kat5 -
Wow. I’m stunned. Really.
Carol – I’m guessing you mean opera and not Oprah, but if you’re talking about Charlotte Church, she was on Oprah, too, so you’re right either way.
)
Try not to get worried, try not to turn on to
Problems that upset you, oh.
Don’t you know
Everything’s alright, yes, everything’s fine.
And we want you to sleep well tonight.
Let the world turn without you tonight.
If we try, we’ll get by, so forget all about us tonight
Sleep and I shall soothe you, calm you, and anoint you.
Myrrh for your hot forehead, oh.
Then you’ll feel
Everything’s alright, yes, everything’s fine.
And it’s cool, and the ointment’s sweet
For the fire in your head and feet.
Close your eyes, close your eyes
And relax, think of nothing tonight.
That’s how I envision them. And thanks for that trip down memory lane. I’d forgotten just how many random Broadway show tunes are stuck in my head.
Which part are you stunned by?
Kat5 – probably by that insight. It’s dead on.
It’s an astroturf campaign. Axelrod does astroturfing. It’s a phony sense of community. A fake movement. Actually, when Obama just talks about economic policy like he has the last few days, he sounds like a regular Democrat, but his creepy followers insist he’s the messiah. The regular Dem stuff is much more appealing to voters than the “grassroots’ movement bs. I mean, I think the repubs have absolutely lost their minds. They still think “low taxes/no spending” is a winning message. Since Bush lowered taxes and we are now on the cusp of a depression, I think it’s a crap message. Obama’s supporters would do best to stick with the regular democratic economics message, than the messiah stuff.
I dont care or trust any poll that says it is unfair to talk about bo in a certain fashion or how it might hurt Palin to bring these issues up
They are legitmate issues and you can bet GOOD money if it were her friends or associates they would hound her back to Alaska
.. Where were the polls asking if it was unfair to discuss Sarah Palins children, or her connections to some silly organisation in Alaska ?? … Or to post pictures of her in her beauty contest and vilify for it ?? …
As long as the information about bo is getting out there for people to at least consider.
Why are they not polling questions like these ???
Does knowing bo associates and PARTICPATES WITH these people give you pause for thought or change your idea of him as a candidate???
masslib – I don’t think they can help themselves but think of him as some kind of savior. I’d also venture to guess that the overwhelming majority of his supporters even know what his actual positions are, never mind the regular democratic economics message. And what is frightening to me is that it doesn’t even seem to matter to them.
Jangles: you should post that on the contact link at the mccain site.
Julie, Kat5 -
No, I’m stunned by the determination to avoid three-dimensional thinking by pretending that something that most clearly exists, doesn’t. Not everything is reducible to eye-rolling and blaming MSNBC (regardless of however much MSNBC is deserving of said blame).
Brad
I remember asking myself that very question some years ago, when reading about that cult in Japan who was caught trying to release toxic gases in the Tokyo subway system. They were young professionals, highly educated, yet they believed stuff such as they could get super-powers by doing what the cult was asking of them.
I love sci-fi and comic books myself but couldn’t get why educated people would believe they’d get super-powers.
I remember someone tellling me: well, they’re nerds. They go on someone’s home, the mother is cooking something good, they feel safe and have a nerd brainstorm…
Me, I am thinking:(insert Homer intonation) : Mmmm, superpowers!
I think Obama followers use Obama to assuage their guilt. Guilt over slavery, guilt over George Bush, guilt over the Iraq war. If he can be elected then centuries of guilt can be buried and life will be full of hope for the future.
I just finished filling out my absentee ballot. I will send it off tonight. Yay! I spent a considerable amount of time researching local candidate and judges. I voted for McCain/Palin but voted for every single down-ticket Democrat running in local races. It felt good! I don’t feel guilty at all. Obama doesn’t deserve my vote but the people working hard for me in my state do. McCain/Palin was my first and hopefully last time I vote for a Republican. But I don’t feel bad at all. I’m just glad that my duty is over and it is in the hands of all of you out there to make sure Obama doesn’t step foot into the White House.
here’s the link to the original column with a brief audio interview with the author.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1003/p09s01-coop.html
she sounds like she is about 25. totally entilted brat. “I have voted 2 times in my life, and if this 3rd time I don’t get what I want I quit!!!” ARGHH!!!!
It doesn’t frighten me at all. I just find it off-putting and annoying. That’s why I think Bill and Hill have actually been BO’s best friends in this election. They don’t go off the rails on how inspiring and heroic Obama is, they just D’s are better at running the Fed’s than R’s. The messiah stuff turns almost everyone who doesn’t believe in it off.
Saw a clip on Fox this pm where Sarah brought up the William Ayers thing at an LA rally. I heard booing but I was not sure whether it was booing because Ayers is so despicable and Obama associated with him or booing because she brought it up. Was anyone at the LA rally and knows the story on this? and if so, how did she do at this rally? Would love to see CA go for Sarah. With the financial mess the state is in I think this might be a good time to make a dent in the Dem stranglehold on CA politics that is so responsible. Would love to see Sarah and Arnie do a campaign event together as Gov’s.
jangles i’d bet the farm that they were booing ayers. this myth that they are trying to promote that there will be a backlash is typical of the Obama propaganda machine that is the MSM. don’t believe that bs for a minute.
Jangles, on what planet have the republicans in the last several decades helped anyone get out of a financial mess? That’s the weird thing about this election. The Republican ideology completely blew up last week. Their economics are ludicrous .
Richard Shelby has very accurately and eloquently described the Obama phenomenon in a book and on various talk shows. It’s classic projection, and Obama has said so himself. He deliberately maintains himself as a “blank slate” so people can project their fantasies on to him. I think the intensity and delusion of the escapist/savior fantasy (ie: the Messiah will heal us all) is particularly magnified at this time as a severe reaction to the Bush years. There has been so much disillusionment, deprivation, fear, and disappointment that out of it comes this intense need for an answer…HOPE. That one word captured this yearning. Add Axelrod’s marketing expertise and they have the perfect product to sell. Hopium. The media has been all too willing to package and sell this product, censoring any information that will conflict with or dispel this illusion.Most people don’t read now anyway, so they are fed this image 24/7 by the media and the rumors are spread via the internet. Everyone wants to believe in a savior, or Santa Claus–and here he is! Just look at that article: she is aching for a savior, a Prince Charming, someone to make it all better (as someone said: without any personal sacrifice and little effort). That’s why Obama doesn’t like to be specific or to have press conferences. Details will ruin the ability to appeal to as many people as possible. We live in an age where Tom Cruise gets paid $25 million per movie, and more people vote for the American Idol than in a presidential election. It’s a perfect storm.
Brad – I’m confused. Are you saying Kat5 is avoiding three-dimensional thinking or the Obama cultists are?
fif, I think this hits the nail on the head: “I think the intensity and delusion of the escapist/savior fantasy (ie: the Messiah will heal us all) is particularly magnified at this time as a severe reaction to the Bush years.”
I think, that so many of bo’s “followers” are simply so convinced that anything coming from, touched by or assocaited with the previous administration is so repugnant and vile, for so many and varied reasons; that in their rush to avoidance and repudiation, they quite simply are not looking where they are going and are grasping at promises and straw men .
They cannot see that what they are rushing toward is more dangerous than what they are running from , and bo would not be the first real person in a movie that is confused with the “character” .
For these people bo is playing a president on TV ,so they think he can be one ; when really is not qualified .. and to my thinking he doesn’t even act the part well .
This may seem less complicated than some other theories , and I do think there are some deeper psychological pools of reflection that might reveal insight, but I am only up for wading at the moment
@ Laura:
“I think Obama followers use Obama to assuage their guilt. Guilt over slavery, guilt over George Bush, guilt over the Iraq war. If he can be elected then centuries of guilt can be buried and life will be full of hope for the future.”
Yes.
And (the rest of this comment is NOT directed at Laura) guilt itself, as opposed to remorse, is an inauthentic state of mind. It’s what we feel when we’ve done something wrong and have no intention of doing what would be necessary to get to the root of our misbehavior and stop it.
And I know I’m going to get flamed now, but time and again in these threads I’ve seen comments like this one from yesterday: “I think the whole r@cist meme tries to play on white guilt and I don’t have any, because I haven’t done anything to feel guilty about.”
The trouble is, and I would expect anyone who self-identifies as left or liberal to understand this, even though we personally have done no wrong (such as owning slaves), in the U.S. there are benefits that specifically accrue to NOT being black, always if you’re white (even if you’re poor) and even if you belong to another minority.
This is true in exactly the same way it’s true that Obama would have benefited from sexism in the media even if he and his campaign had not engaged in sexist and misogynist behavior (which they certainly did).
I think it is this occasional blind spot in comments here that some writers on other blogs recently called out. Go ahead and flame me now.
What they get from Obama? An empty movie that invites them to write the script and a “leading man” who tells them it will be an Oscar event.
Saw clip of PA rally for the One with Springsteen and interviews with attenders who were there for The Boss, not the One. I am still not sure whether those poll numbers are real or not.
Also see that despite all the hype about registering and voting in one day so far only about 3000 have done so.
Obama was predicted. Read “Being There” or see the movie and you will know that BO is really Chance the Gardener. JN
I agree with you Kat5. Obama isn’t really offering anything. However his candidacy offers wealthy, privileged white Americans an opportunity to show that they aren’t racist. And as a bonus, once Obama is elected, the problem of racial bigotry in the U.S. will be over (for them). Their guilt at their own good fortune will be assuaged. These people are voting for Obama so they can feel good about themselves.
Since their vote for Obama proves they really aren’t racists, those of us who don’t want to vote for Obama must therefore be racists. They are projecting their longing for a liberal leader who will fix everything so they don’t have to sacrifice any of their own wealth and privilege. And they are projecting their unconscious racism on us–the Democrats who preferred another candidate.
For black Americans, the process is much more understandable. They want a black President, just as I wanted a woman President. They want a President who will understand their needs and listen to them. The fact that Obama doesn’t understand or care about their needs is irrelevant. He is a symbol.
When all is said and done it’s about the color of Obama’s skin, not the content of his character. And it’s really really scary and creepy. Obama has the makings of a dictator with lots of people who are willing to follow him blindly and ask nothing except to be relieved of their white guilt.
And Brad should offer his own explanation. I really dislike it when people try to get others to explain a phenomenon, then find fault with their explanations, and finally refuse to reciprocate by offering their own alternative explanations.
[...] The Confluence has such an article up and an interesting discussion followed. [...]
disenfranchised voter,
Thank you! Let’s hope there are alot more people who feel the way we do.
I think Palin should go to Florida to campaign with Lieberman. I saw a national poll of Jewish voters taken by a major Jewish organization and it showed 57% fo BO, 30% Mc Cain and 13% undecided. Kerry got 80%.
Jewish voters are not comfortable with BO’s position????on the middle east. Many of us with a brain remember that he said that “no one has suffered more than the Palestinian people” while campaigning in Iowa. There is fertile ground in Florida to change votes.
I thank you for your rather condescending opinion, bradmays, but I stand by what I believe to be my rather common sense conclusions about Obama. It isn’t as if I haven’t been studying the Obama phenomenon for some months now. It isn’t as if I haven’t been reading about American politics and political history for years now. It isn’t as if I haven’t been voting and paying attention to matters political since the late Sixties. I have. I am sentient. I am basically sensible. I have a pretty good general fund of knowledge. You may not agree with me, but this doesn’t give you license to portray me, or julie, or anyone else, as being thick as a plank if we don’t buy into what some might view as the latest futile parlor game.
Amen Kat5 .. amen .
was wondering if anyone would address ‘that’ attitude’ towards some of us here … thank YOU .
Palomino: the other writers were specifically attacking this site (& NoQ) for suggesting that any criticism of organizations like Fannie & Freddie and ACORN was unconsciously racist, because it offers housing opportunities to low-income people (and they assume all low-income people are minorities). That’s absurd. Critiquing an organization that is being investigated in 17 states is completely legitimate and has nothing to do with race. Same with Fannie & Freddie. They are corrupt and unethical. We have seen how accusations of racism are used for any and all criticism of Obama and his methods. Also, I can have compassion for the difficulty and struggle of minorities without feeling guilty about it.
Kat 5
I agree with you.
Win by any means??
http://tdg.typepad.com/heidi_lis_potpourri/2008/10/what-is-the-quality-of-your-intent.html
I’m with you Kat5. I find the attitude conscending too. I defended Brad yesterday, but now I’m wondering what he’s playing at. I don’t care to be played.
@bostonboomer: “Brad should offer his own explanation. I really dislike it when people try to get others to explain a phenomenon, then find fault with their explanations, and finally refuse to reciprocate by offering their own alternative explanations.”
I’m betting Brad could, and will. But his point, and I agree with it, is that if PUMAs would do some of what Brad calls “three-dimensional thinking” about what Obama’s followers see in him, then PUMA opposition could be more effective because it could address the Obama fans on the ground, and in the terms, of their engagement with him. Otherwise, it’s pretty much about keeping one’s head in the sand, coming up once in a while to do some name-calling.
Brad, with all due respect, I have to agree with Kat5. There is a distinctly pretentious and condescending tone to your posts.
Sarah Brightman is evil…evil…
bradmays wrote: “…I began to hear from them echos of another book, this one by Joe McGinniss, called “The Selling Of The President, 1968.” In THAT book, the author explores in depth they way in which Richard Nixon was sold, Madison Avenue-Style, to the American people. The book got it all right, and is still quite a rattling read today.”
Anybody watch “Mad Men?” Season 1 was in part about the ad agency that’s the subject of the series trying to sell Nixon. They failed the first time around.
I think Brad is right in that Obama supporters are looking for an honest politician. They are projecting their desires onto him. How they fail to see that he’s none of the things they want him to be is beyond me. It’s not as if the information isn’t out there somewhere. But they don’t see it. Almost all of my friends are Obamabots. We don’t talk about politics. And really it started with their never-articulated hatred of Hillary Clinton. They never expressed as much hatred for her as they did once the primary really got under way. I could never understand it. But I do know they got and continue to get their news from DailyKos and Huffington Post. Every time they try to bring up Obama’s supposedly good points I am immediately able to shoot them down with facts and links. Frequently they never even heard of the arguments I’m making: like the fact that Obama was the #2 recipient of money from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. But they know that John McCain’s advisor got money from them. The information is out there, but you have to look for it. And they only look in places where that information will not be made available. They live in an echo chamber in a way most PUMAs don’t. Blogs like this one provide all kinds of information from every angle possible. The commentary might shoot some of the info down, but it’s here to be seen and further researched. DailyKos and Huffington, and even the NY Times, don’t provide the kind of wealth of information that a site like this does. If I was an atom – I’d want to create an HONEST AND COMPLETE news source that Obamabots would read.
The person who wrote that op-ed obviously has serious emotional problems. I am not being cruel or insulting, I am serious. We really don’t want people like that to be the majority in this country.
While the op-ed writer was searching for words to deify Obama, I was trying to come up with one word to describe Obama to my father. The nicest word I could come up with was MOBSTER. (Monster may be have been closer to the truth.)
Chance the Gardener. LOL!
“I like to watch.”
I will try to get caught up with all of these posts tonight, as I practice for a gig tomorrow. Looks like some heavy duty analysis here, folks!
It’s October, so high time McCain-Palin started coming out with the goods on Obama. Palin’s speech today associating Ayers puts her in the good ole VP candidate roll or attack dog (but with a smile and lipstick, you bettcha!). Also, look forward to Hannity’s show tomorrow night when he pulls together all of these nefarious Obama associations (ACORN, Rezko, Wright, Ayers, etc., etc.), Hope an hour is time enough.
Note to Riverdaughter, when she’s freed up from hosting at home: Just listened to local radio folk music show, and heard songs by Eva Cassidy (has a new CD, based on recordings discovered since her passing a dozen years ago). “Coat of Many Colors” was quite fine. Anyway, knowing you were a fan, thought you’d like heads up.
Why do I feel like I am a character in Charlotte’s Web?? Remember it is Charlotte that is incredible in the story, not Wilbur. Obama is created by Axelrod. If we want to look at what Obama gives to people, then look toward Axelrod. I do not think that Kat is wrong to suggest that different people get different rewards from supporting Obama. Axelrod is an evil genius that is why it is so hard to defeat Obama. There is no question that AA supporters get something very different from cool white 20 somethings. Rather, than trying to pry the Obots from Obama we need to focus on how to energize the rest of us. It is always true that the people that do not vote are the largest group of Americans. Axelrod is trying to convince us that it is useless to vote that we have already lost. That is why Palin is just what we need someone to energize the non-Obots.
And I just saw Charlotte Church’s name mentioned…please no Charlotte Church! I’m an opera fan and Charlotte Church is even more evil than Sarah Brightman. And Andrea Boccelli is more evil than the other two put together! I’m going to put on Sirius Metropolitan Opera Radio channel to wash out my ears.
Palomino,
I have thought long and hard about the Obama phenomenon. I haven’t shared all of my thoughts, but I think I’ve shared enough to show that I’m not thinking on a shallow level. You are free to judge me and so is Brad.
I am free to be true to myself. And that is what I choose to do. As WMCB said earlier, I know who and what I am. And I am comfortable with myself. I don’t believe I’m wearing blinders. I’m a pretty open-minded person. But I don’t care for being lectured or condescended to and I don’t like seeing it done to others.
i’m sorry palomino, but I call BS on everything you say. We are told that when we criticize LIBERAL african americans that we are forgetting our place in h istory and alll of the advantages we had over AA’s, (even though many of us suffered with our own disadvantages that have never been seriously addressed by our society). But on the flip side, these same WHITE liberals are allowed to trash the likes of Clarence Thomas and Condi Rice (I AM NOT DEFENDING THESE PEOPLE BTW). i see not so subtle references to them as Unce Tom…and not just from other black people. It is the same kind of two faced double standard that we see with feminists trashing sarah palin, and some of us are sick to death of it.
I think expiating guilt with “cheap grace” is a lot of it. Guilt over r@cism, and also guilt over the war. It has always amused me that while polls showed that around 80% of the public favored going into Iraq at the time, today you can barely find a SINGLE Democrat who will admit that they were pissed off , feeling vulnerable and threatened, and wanted to go kick some ass, same as many Republicans did.
Sorry, but those numbers don’t add up. A LOT of Dems and Liberals supported this boondoggle – they had to have, if 80% were pro-invasion. I believe that a lot of the hate at the “warmongers” is pure self-hate that they have desperately re-directed. So now they have to jump on board the “I knew way back when that it was wrong” train, in order to have their own lack of judgement covered over by the crowd. Obama gives them cover for their guilt, without them having to face it calmly, realize they were humanly wrong but not evil, and move on.
DYB: I find that most Obots do NOT want facts. It ruins the fantasy. They so desperately want him to be the Messiah, the One (I still can’t believe Oprah actually called him that) that real information humanizes him and reveals his flaws. That’s no fun. What a downer realizing he’s just a politician. Then they can’t chant O-BAMA, O-BAMA!
Honora,
Well said, as usual. Thank you.
Are we actually debating the definition of the word “cool?” A lot of Obama supporters consider him to be very cool. I, too, consider him cool, but in the temperature sort of way. They have a different definition.
My personal trainer admits to never having followed politics. A few weeks ago he saw McCain on TV at the gym and said: “God, I hate him.” I asked why and he said: “I don’t know…he’s running against a brother.” And laughed.
Masslib: I did not say anything about the Repubs being economic saviors. What I said is that in CA we have had a Dem legislature for about as far back as I can remember CA politics which is about 30 years. And like any majority in power that long, the Dems have a terrible record on fiscal responsibility. The state was almost brought to bankruptcy in the Gray Davis era and when Arnie came in as the Repub he was not able to get through any fiscal reforms. The state was saved from the downturn brought on by the Dotcom bubble bursting by the housing bubble blossoming. Now that bubble is collapsing but the underlying problems of fiscal mismanagement and overspending are still there. The Repubs in CA in general today are a sorry lot—Repubs. in CA at one time were very progressive and reformist—-Kuchel, Earl Warren et al. I am very active in the Dem party here but there have been some bad acts in our party on the part of both the Assembly and Senate leadership. We could use a little election day close encounter of the Repub. kind to perhaps cause people to walk their talk of progressive ideas and democratic principles.
where has katiebird been?
@ fif: “the other writers were specifically attacking this site (& NoQ) for suggesting that any criticism of organizations like Fannie & Freddie and ACORN was unconsciously racist, because it offers housing opportunities to low-income people (and they assume all low-income people are minorities).”
I’m aware of the context, and I think Anglachel’s piece was much more nuanced and deserves a slow, careful read. You may disagree, but what you offered is a crude caricature of her argument.
As for Mandos, I was thinking specifically of this sentence near the beginning of his 9/27 post at Corrente on subprime lending and minorities:
“Let’s just say that it’s pretty much well known around both here and there that my threshold for a racism accusation is a lot lower than theirs, and for that reason, the PUMA phenomenon as a movement seems rather tone-deaf to me about race issues.”
WMCB is exactly right about the war. if every single “progressive” had thought like I did in 02 and 03 we would have never gone there. I think there is a guilt associated with that. especially from the likes of faux progressives like Kos and Hufifington who voted for bush in the first place.
fif, she had to go out of town for the weekend…she’ll be back.
Exactly, Gary. It’s exactly the same as the feminists attacking Palin. White elitist liberals have determined that if you are black, you have to be on the left and if you are a feminist, you have to be on the left. God, why did I ever believe that most “liberals” are open minded? I’m seeing politics in a whole new way as a consequence of the Obama cult phenomenon. I don’t think I’ll ever slip back into that old way of thinking again.
@palomino: I have been deeply perplexed – and worried – by the Obama-following phenomenon for months now. Nothing two-dimensional about this. As a strong Hillary supporter, like man others I’ve tried logical, rational argument and been shot down as a racist. I’ve been called a c*unt and worse. I’ve been told I should die a painful death, hopefully ASAP. I have had once-close, once-rational friends react with complete bewilderment, not to mention hostility, when I present them with factual information and arguments about Obama they would sooner not comprehend. As stated above, I have come to the conclusion that there is NO rational, logical method of countering the current will to blindness. Its causes are seemingly varied, go well beyond this election, and seem unrelated in great part to anything that Obama ‘represents’, much less constitutes. In other words, Obama is benefiting hugely from currents in American cultural/political history which no one is likely to comprehend any time soon. Certainly not by Nov. 5.
And now before I commit the sin of rambling into old age, I’m going to scarf down my chili and cheese hot dog dinner.
Not sure why my comment is awaiting moderation, but I hope it’s not because I’m now being branded as “condescending” or some such, or because Gary has decided to “call BS” on “everything” I say without actually addressing anything I said. Bye now.
palomino..typical you can dish it out, but can’t take it. you should know that certain words trigger our filter. if you asked nicelly it would be released. I think I prefer you leaving though. bye.
WMCB
well said. Success has many fathers, failure is an orphan.
Having opposed the war and marched against it from the start, no guilt here. Having strong feelings (unlike Obama) about civil rights, no guilt about my color either.
All those zombies have something in common: a lack of a strong sense of identity. Easy pray.
Palomino,
We can’t control what wordpress chooses to moderate. All you have to do is ask nicely and someone will get it out.
No one called you condescending. That was directed at Brad Mays, filmmaker. You just chose to get in the middle of it. If you’re that thin skinned, you shouldn’t jump into the middle of an ongoing dispute.
gary, what’s sad about it is that the guilt is so unnecessary. I have a few Dem friends who admitted to me that they were for it – for a lot of very complicated reasons, some to do with bad information, and some to do with their very human feelings of wanting to HIT BACK after 9/11. So, they looked at it, said, “Well, not my best decision”, and moved on to trying to get us out without blowing up the whole region. Guilt is not productive. CHANGING one’s mind and trying to do one’s best going forward is. Self-flagellation (or flagellating others as a stand-in for oneself) never accomplished a damn thing except to cloud the judgement and cause reactive behaviors that are often worse than the original “sin”.
It’s October, so high time McCain-Palin started coming out with the goods on Obama. Palin’s speech today associating Ayers puts her in the good ole VP candidate roll or attack dog.
I read about this today and shuddered. If you think that we’ve seen Palin hate already–just wait until the Odroids and the media realize she is directly attacking his character. The hysterical hate is going to go off the charts. They were freaking out about Hillary’s negativity when she dared to even criticize his policies. Remember when she mentioned his “slumlord?” They were also bitterly complaining about how “mean” McCain was during the debate. Poor Bambi! (This always amazes me too: do they think Putin and tribal warlords are going to pamper Barry?) Today’s WAPO article also revealed that McCain & Co. are going after the character issue full force now. It’s going to get very ugly. I wonder if it will backfire on McCain. You know that the media is going to be whining and crying in defense of their Favorite Son.
Palomino said
don’t say something that you know is going to be inflammatory and then have a hissy fit when people react exactly like you suspect they will. my advice…grow up, and grow a little thicker skin. I suspect it will be the thin skinned among us who eventually end up falling prey to the acccusations of racism.
Bostonboomer
Agree. i feel I had my brain rewired this year. Used to be: GOP – scary party, Democrats – stupid party. Now – they are both scary and stupid and the formerly meek democrats cam make even more repulsive bullies than GOP-ers were – and I never thought this possible.
I remember how creeped I was when reading that free Republic denizens talked about spraying acid in the face of the waitress who ratted the Bush girls for being under age. It looks now tame compared to all the attacks – on and off line – B0bots perpetrated on everyone this year.
fif,
Something tells me Sarah can take it as well as dish it out. Women in politics have to have very thick skin. I want to see her attacking BO with a smile, like she did Biden in the debate. That woman has *it.*
WMCB, the bushies were effective in changin “reflecting and changing course due to new information” to “flip flop” it really hurt our whole political discourse.
Anyway, here’s my attempt to answer Brad’s question – I just threw “The Wave” in
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/10/04/whats-in-it-for-them-b0bots/
I have come to the conclusion that there is NO rational, logical method of countering the current will to blindness. Its causes are seemingly varied, go well beyond this election, and seem unrelated in great part to anything that Obama ‘represents’, much less constitutes. In other words, Obama is benefiting hugely from currents in American cultural/political history which no one is likely to comprehend any time soon. Certainly not by Nov. 5.
I absolutely agree with you Kat5. So much of what we are witnessing is unconscious. That’s why people are reaching with such intensity–myself included. Watching Hillary be treated that way unleashed something primal in me. I still don’t understand the depth of it, but I know that it is a core issue and it has changed me.
reacting with such intensity
BB- Sometimes I say to my kids that they should be quiet because ‘they don’t have a dog in this fight”, but I am going to break my rule. I love this site because we can talk civilly and not get personal, although we often disagree. I have not felt that this discussion was civil. I for one do think that both Brad and Palomino have been boorish and I am not sorry to see them leave the thread.
No one even flamed Palomino. If I recall correctly, the last time Palomino was here, he/she got into a snit too. I don’t know what’s going on there, but running away won’t solve it. Right now, I have no clue what Palomino is so upset about. We are friendly here. We don’t have to talk strategy 24/7. If we like to have lighthearted conversations, we can. Anyone who wants deep thoughts can either offer their own or find a deep thought blog.
bb: I think so too, but it is going to be fierce.
Does anyone have current statistics on the AA status in academia: how many tenured professors are AA? Hispanic? Asian? Caucasian? What are the % at major universities like the Big Ten and UC systems, the Ivy Leagues and what are the % at state colleges? What are those same % for women?
Is there guilt in academia because they have something to be guilty about? What is the AA % of students? grad students in these same venues? Women? I think women have made some real gains at least as students but I am not so sure about AAs.
edgeofforever, this is true:
In other words, Obama supporters get something they never did: validation, praise, the smell of power.
That is the impact of the media in this – NOT just that they are pushing Obama, but that the former “despised” now get to be on top of the heap and lord it over the rest. Those who took a beating from the media, day in, day out, for 8 long years, now are the favored, and it’s very heady indeed. That is a very dangerous component of human nature. Some very brutal regimes have come about at the hands of the formerly oppressed.
WMCB, on October 4th, 2008 at 6:31 pm Said:
Funny, but a lot of the female bots I know are the same ones who keep falling into bad relationships in general. It’s sad.
I wish Rasmussen would do a poll of sociological/life skills data vs. the candidate people support.
Honora,
Well that was my point. Furthermore, I think when someone is not a regular, long-time contributor, they should make a real effort to go with the flow until everyone gets to know them. Palomino used to come here a lot, and then got upset about something. That’s fine, but you can’t just drop in, drop a bomb and then run away. As you said, it’s rude.
Brad is somewhat of a known quantity, but I don’t feel that he has yet earned the right to come to the Confluence and act like a Professor leading a seminar–and that is what he was acting like. I know, I’ve done it for pay. Basically you have to pay some dues before people trust you and welcome you into the fold.
It’s like visiting someone’s home. If you’re new, you make an effort to be polite and not be too pushy.
Agree. i feel I had my brain rewired this year. Used to be: GOP – scary party, Democrats – stupid party. Now – they are both scary and stupid and the formerly meek democrats cam make even more repulsive bullies than GOP-ers were – and I never thought this possible.
edge: me too. My father screamed at me the other day: “Jesus–what are you a Republican now?!” This bifurcated thinking–you are either a Republican or a Democrat, there is nothing in between–is simplistic and absolutist. I am between worlds, liminal. I always believed the Repubs were “all” evil, selfish, and greedy. Now, clearly the Dems have the same capacity. Now I will look at individuals and their recorded actions, just as we do with our own relationships. In drama, action reveals character. In life as well.
fif wrote:
“Watching Hillary be treated that way unleashed something primal in me. I still don’t understand the depth of it, but I know that it is a core issue and it has changed me.”
_______________________________
I feel exactly the same way, and I am determined not to lose touch with my anger.
act like a Professor leading a seminar
lol!
fif,
That’s what it felt like to me.
Bostonboomer
I agree about the “opportunity to prove they are not racist”
I remember a post on a forum some months ago – questioning loyalties and purity:
Can anybody out there give me jim jones
A glorifed David Koresh
All McCain’s people say NOBAMA
Jangles,
I don’t know what the stats are, but I doubt if they are in proportion to the population makeup.
Palomino: He.
Skin: Thick. Pretty dark, too.
Blog: I have one. You can read it.
Flaming: Did not complain about that.
Poor intellectual quality of a comment directed at me by Gary: Did complain about that.
Snit: I said something rude here several weeks ago, when I was upset because people were discussing trivia in a thread about the death of Stephanie Tubbs Jones. I was born in her district and thought more respect was in order. I apologized then and will apologize for that again here, if necessary. Today, though, I’m forming the impression that “snit” means raising an issue (as Brad did) that the group would rather ignore.
Do you ever think that some of the intensity of people in the Obama movement may have something to do with their own defensiveness about choosing the One and then being intent upon reassuring themselves that this was a great and gallant decision? I know that when I am honest with myself sometimes and I have bought into a bad idea or position I can get rather obtuse in my efforts to cover my a$$.
bb: that’s why it’s so hard to understand how others who felt that way can now support Obama. I got into an argument with a friend today who has heard me tell him all the stories and information for months. “Well, I have to vote for the lesser of two evils (ie: Obama).” I don’t feel that he is the lesser of two evils, but beyond that, he is fundamentally illegitimate as the nominee. Just as Bush stole the election in 2000 (and possibly 2004), Obama has done the same thing. That is not something that can now be “forgotten” because it’s inconvenient. Maybe as a woman, it is more personal for me. With each HRC assault, I felt personally violated. Hillary is not only my sister, she is someone that I admire on so many levels, and I felt protective. And even though Palin is not an ideological match, I feel protective of her too. Maybe some of the wonderful male PUMAs here can tell me how they feel about this and why they are still connected to that fury of injustice. Others seem to be able to “get over it.” I don’t even WANT to get over it. Those principles are precious to our democracy. The Founding Fathers risked their lives for it. I don’t mean to sound righteous, but there is something so inviolable about it.
I probably need to keep my mouth shut, but I think there was a little bit of defensive snittiness to go around on all sides here. Can everyone take a deep breath, please? It looks to me that you guys started out about 2 inches apart, and it’s your subsequent reactions to each other that are turning it into 2 miles.
you think you’re thick skinned??? HA!!
btw you can always tell someone is insecure when they say they are leaving and then stick around to see if people talk about them. Like I said before palomino….grow up.
Palomino: Cool
txpolitico67: fan of
Wow, if anyone from the days of Talk Left when it was home to a lot of SMART and articulate Clinton supporters know Palomino is definitely on the right side of things.
Not to worry my friend. I think ur a great observer of all things political and the like.
BTW, last night, the cocktails were flowing and lots of Barry Manilow a-blastin’!!
Palomino: no one is ignoring the issue. It’s been discussed at length on many occasions. Gary is just disagreeing with your p.o.v. Debate can get strong but it is welcome here.
what wmcb said.
Palomino, you aren’t worth flaming….I did manage to find something on your blog that was interesting.
But you and brad can take your arrogant self-congratulation elsewhere because this kind of bashing:
“No, I’m stunned by the determination to avoid three-dimensional thinking…”
undercuts any of your preening genius whether or not you and brad are trolls.
It’s simply not needed. And, yeah, LaRouche cultists “get” something from their cult, too, but it’s besides the point to actually argue that.
if i may, i think as we are nearing the election, emotions and p.o.v.’s are running quite high. riverdaughter and no quarter are the only places i can find really-like minded people who hate all things obama.
After the accusations, the name-calling and being excluded from the huff-ho’s and the Daily Obamaho’s, it’s kinduva bummer when those of us who share the views of the PUMA’s are vehemently in disagreement.
Posters like me really enjoy the comments on this blog. I contribute once in a while but learn a lot from fellow PUMA’s.
I feel that when this is all over, there will be a lot of political soul-searching. Let’s keep who we have on our side on our side and just focus on educating people on how awful Obama would be for our country.
Just my .02. Let the firing squads begin.
I second what WMCB said. One thing we need to all remember is that the printed word doesn’t carry an emotion the way the human voice would, and a facial expression would. When we read text we can frequently misinterpret people’s intentions – and there is a multitude of reasons for that. I’ve gotten into quite a few “snits” with people over misinterpreted intentions because something they or I wrote wasn’t followed by a
. We’re on the same side.
Having said that, I don’t think Anglachel’s post improves on further readings. No amount of
could have softened the very nasty and deeply unfair point she was making.
Palomino- I don’t think anyone is afraid of discussing whether or not we are ra’ist, it seems to me that that is most of what we have been talking about for the last few days. If you think that we are ra/ ist there is nothing that we are going to say to change your mind. I thought Brad’s comment about what Kat said earlier was really rude and on top of that I felt that kat’s take on Obama’s support was correct. We can disagree, you may be right, but then again I may be right, but your opinion is no more or less valid than is mine.
Zee, I agree that it was a pretty high-handed thing to say, but it’s a bit of a leap to jump all the way to “troll”. Can’t we call out an offensive or insulting statement (the originator may not have been really conscious he was talking down to people) without pulling out the broad brush? Everyone who is wrong is not evil.
Okay, I’m done. I said I wasn’t going to get in the middle of this, and here I am doing it. Stupid me. *sigh*
DYB, on October 4th, 2008 at 8:27 pm Said:
And I just saw Charlotte Church’s name mentioned…please no Charlotte Church! I’m an opera fan and Charlotte Church is even more evil than Sarah Brightman. And Andrea Boccelli is more evil than the other two put together! I’m going to put on Sirius Metropolitan Opera Radio channel to wash out my ears
__________
Okay, I’ve got to ask – what don’t you like about these performers?
watching the returns on tv for the run off to get rid of $bill jefferson …
looks like a hispanic woman is first at the moment and $bill is WAY down
Jangles: that’s all listed in the chronical of higher education, they follow all that … can’t get the stats here from home but can log onto it from my network at the U and find them
“I’m aware of the context, and I think Anglachel’s piece was much more nuanced and deserves a slow, careful read. You may disagree, but what you offered is a crude caricature of her argument.”
Um, at least two of us said the same thing days ago….so your wisdom from on high comes a little too late. I’m sorry, but it looks like a tag team and it looks like an agenda. Nice try, tho, Palomino and brad.
I think the more attention we give to that untrue , opinionated post by ‘that woman’ .. just kidding .. Really. too lazy to type her whole name that’s all.
is a disservice to all of us .. We do not need defending or justifying or rectifying .. we never have .!!
as it’s never even been remotely true .. ! – EVER!!
The mods here have taken extraordinary care to get rid of the trolls occasional post here that even ‘smelled’ of that word.. !!
From the regular posters here I have never , never read even one comment that has a ‘faint ‘ odor emanating from it ..
just my opinion also ..
)
Palomino,
If you are a “he” that explains a bit of your tone-deafness. I disagree with you that we are not interested in looking at these ideas. The fact is that many of us have been struggling with the questions Brad was asking for a nearly a year–maybe even longer.
Those of us who are women have been through an incredibly intense experience of seeing real hatred of and rage against women on display in the media and the blogosphere. We have thought long and hard about it and most of us have come to some conclusions about it. We don’t have to regurgitate answers on demand to any old person who drops by and asks questions.
Keep on with that condescending tone and you’ll get nowhere fast.
Can someone point me to a site where Hillary supporters (of which I am one) who are voting for McCain can be found extolling the virtues of the McCain Palin ticket? I think you are all getting excited about the wrong thing, no one is drinking the cool aid, we are a country of tried and true cynics so don’t worry about religious cult like decisions being made. We have a choice between two candidates and I can not allow McCain/Palin to win. If I heard like minded Hillary supporters giving me a reason to vote for McCain/Palin or not vote at all – which equals a vote for McCain – I might be able to make sense of your point of view.
don’t think that there aren’t obama ratfuckers out there trying to plant seeds of animus amongst us. This site has remained strong and grown at a consistent rate since RD started it. They realized the roe v wade, voting for a vagina argument wasn’t making any cracks, so they fall back on the racist meme. It is effective. And it’s been used against us before. So when moderators of this site come down like a hammer when it starts being discussed, don’t be surprised. like the decision to vote for obama, the debate on whether race plays a part in that decision is over too, at least on this site. That doesn’t mean that racism doesn’t exist. It means that we are not going to worry ourselves over those accusations right now. and we’re not going to tolerate them. If you think that’s unfair, blame it on the obots for so callously throwing real race issues to the wind in order to win an election.
whoa! sarah brightman? evil? craziness. i LOVE SB! she’s amazing. her version of Nessun Dorma is phenomenal and brings me to tears everytime I hear it.
And Palomino, I’m not aware that anyone has asked you to apologize. Self-pity isn’t attractive either.
johnboy, there are PLENTY of sites out there like that. a little google search should do it for you.
Johnboy,
WTF are you talking about?
JohnBoy, go google for your own damn self. We don’t owe you shit. If you can’t tell the difference between a decent and honorable person with whom you disagree, and a weasly-voting thug from the Chicago Machine who spent 19 months subverting the Democratic process and continues to lie his ass off about any and every position he takes, then I can’t help you.
WMCB, if it helps put things in perspective…when I wrote my post, no one else had jumped in at that point….I was running around feeding me and my dog and when I came back and posted everyone else had jumped in so it looked as if I were piling on.
The arrogance and the back and forth between brad and palomino struck me as a tag team. I did go and look at Palomino’s website and it took a while to find a post that actually looked anti-Obama, so he may well not be a troll, but it’s not clear-cut.
Besides the tag team element, there is also the successful derailing of a thread. That’s pretty much the #1 clue of a troll.
But I do admit I could be wrong and Palomino could simply be a less seasoned poster. Goodness knows even those of us posting online for years still have trouble communicating and interpreting posts sometimes!
and johnboy enters right on cue to prove my point
gary, you are scary prescient. You have ESPN.
NEWPOST, come get a drink – Scratching Post up!
wmcb, I see brain-dead people!
txpolitico,
This was never about Palomino. He chose to jump into an argument on the side of the other male. No one has called Palomino names or attacked him. This was about Brad trying to lead an impromptu graduate seminar and some of us not wanting to be treated as students. If you don’t like that, tough. Sorry to be blunt, but it’s really not personal.
I like Sarah Brightman too but I can understand why many people feel that she is overrated. There are many other better opera singers out there. Brightman is just more pop-ish and mainstream so she reaches the masses who otherwise do not listen to opera and classical music.
Charlotte Church on the other hand – man, she is lucky that she was discovered when she was still an innocent little girl. Yes, she was a prodigy but her voice isn’t that great in part because she doesn’t put in the effort to improve. She has since branched out into pop music. I heard her latest album and it was horrible. I’ve seen a lot of prodigies in classical music turn out to be not so great performers as adults. They just reached a certain level quicker but once everyone else catches up to them in their 20s, they aren’t really that special anymore.
Why is everyone fighting? I think I’m lost here. I thought the Brad conversation was interesting, and I agree with him, these people obviously follow him for some reason. But I think I came pretty close to what it is. it’s how I admit I felt with Deval Patrick. He was going to change politics! Whatever the hell that means. People get caught up in these things. It makes them feel good.
WMCB,
I don’t want to embarass you, but I do adore you!
“This was about Brad trying to lead an impromptu graduate seminar and some of us not wanting to be treated as students. ”
Oh, ok, I get it now.
FTR,
The issue of r*cism DID come up with me and the blogger known as Uppity Woman. I was a big fan of her blog, heck she even put me on her front page when I sent her a video mocking Obama.
But when she came out with the ACORN and the La Raza statements regarding the housing/mortgage mess, I sure did get upset and challenge her statements. I told her I saw her comments akin to those of Lou Dobbs (when he gets into one of his ‘illegal alien’ rants) and Michelle Malkin…that there was some r*ce baiting going on.
Now I am NOT sensitive or thin-skinned. Being an ungodly sodomite (and Chicano) in Fort Worth, Texas, I had to physically defend myself from gay-bashers since the days of Reagan, when I was in high school. The verbal insults were and still are prevalent.
I feel that we should not bring up the issue of r*ce or make any ‘nuanced’ references to it when we make our arguments. As a sales person, I can, like practically everyone here, make their point while not taking that bait.
The r*ce card is all the Obama people know. They use it because their leader injects it when he has nothing else, which is obvious because he IS nothing. That’s their bullsh1t. I fight r*cism (because I get it too from my black and latino friends who support Obama) with facts.
Facts and issues. I have that as my arsenal. F*ck the r*ce sh1t. Kill ‘em with knowledge.
Heh, a commenter on NQ went to the Palin rally today. She says that Palin used a quote with which we are all familiar:
She also said she was at Starbucks drinking her coffee this am…and on the cup was the “quote of the day” from Madeleine Albright…”There’s a special place in hell for women who don’t support other women.”
I liked what you said, masslib. I don’t think we are fighting. To me this is a matter of principle. I’m not going to back down. We are pretty equal here. I’ll even let RD condescend to me up to a point, because I really respect her political savy. But, you know what? She’s never done it, ever. She has explained things to me, but not with that condescending tone. It’s often a male on female thing, that tone.
Brad didn’t even know that Lori had spent a long time last night telling us about her idea for an ad to run against Obama. She told us about it and asked for our input. Brad, on the other hand, announced that Lori (used her full name) was working on an ad, he would let us know more later. I found that telling.
Okay, maybe I was harsh. Sorry for that. Really.
But I don’t think I’m preening in here and I certainly don’t consider myself a genius. Ideas are my stock in trade, however, and if I AM trying to do anything in here it is to try and stimulate some discussion.
There was a book that, at one time, scholars found fascinating called ”
Book Of The Damned.” In it were lists of phenomenon that had no ready explanation. People loved to go through and try and apply themselves to various mysteries. Again, I quote Feynman: “I’m an electron. What do I do now?”
I don’t pretend to have any answers. I’m just asking questions. But if I say that the color of an orange is orange and someone else says no, it’s not and I ask “why not?” and that person says “well, in my opinion the color orange doesn’t exist,” then I think it’s safe to conclude that person is avoiding the question.
One COULD say that an orange isn’t orange because it’s actually purple and is merely reflecting the orange part of the spectrum back at the viewer, and that person would be correct. But this would require some measure of effort.
I think Riverdaughter and Gary and the others who blog here are marvelous, intelligent people. I’m astonished at how they sustain their blogging while tending to jobs and families, and I’ve said as much earlier in this thread. But I think that the best way we can honor that effort is to, now and then, think outside our individual boxes and try to paint complete pictures of things we don’t yet quite get.
Obviously, Obama utilizes evangelical and even cultish methods. People obviously project what they like (and don’t like) onto him. He obviously appeals to whites for specific reasons, and blacks for likewise specific reasons. But Obama is a HUGE phenomenon and to deny that his followers aren’t getting anything from him just because you can’t see it from your particular vantage point is just plain silly. It’s also lazy, in my opinion. Now if saying that makes me a bad person for some people in here, fine.
I would just like to know more about the world today than I knew yesterday. And so, like Feynman (who WAS a genius), I ask questions:
“I’m a happy Obama follower. How did I become so happy?”
Bostonboomer.
in your statement you tell me “that’s tough” but then follow it up with an “I’m sorry.”
I would rather you have told me that’s tough and moved on. You don’t need to say you’re sorry because you aren’t.
Stand your ground. Don’t apologize. It goes further with a lot of people.
bradmay….what he offers his followers is the belief they are special. He went out of his way to make them feel a part of something bigger than themselves and to give them a sense of belonging to a movement and not just a political process. He provides the same thing a cult provides….a group to belong to that is special and in touch with something higher than self.
Think about the language Obama used…”we are the ones we’ve been waiting for.” “hope, change, unity” “I’m a blank screen”….those are the words of a cult leader.
Brad,
Sometimes the best way to get someone to open up and share ideas is to share yours first.
Masslib,
The other day I called you a trouble maker when you were on Talk Left. 700 BILLION apologies!!! I was thinking of someone else.
Please accept my apology. I am sorry and was DEAD wrong.
Well, txpolitico, you missed my point then. I apologized to you for being blunt, because you have nothing to do with what is going on. You should have stayed out of it. I’m not standing my ground against you. It is simply none of your business to tell me whether to fight or apologize or whatever.
“It’s often a male on female thing, that tone.”
Bingo, bostonboomer!
And I’m not buying the apology enough to wade through brad’s latest. Sorry, brad. Ooops! I guess I’m not really sorry… heh.
txpolitico67, oh no worries.
bostonboomer, on October 4th, 2008 at 9:47 pm Said:
Brad,
Sometimes the best way to get someone to open up and share ideas is to share yours first.
Great point.
Brad,
You need to pay better attention. Obama supporters aren’t particularly happy. They constantly complain and accuse others of racism. They attack women and anyone else who disagrees with them with intense, venemous rage. I don’t call that happiness.
boston, isn’t that often how these sorts of messianic followings are? Weren’t the Bush supporters in 2000 a lot like this?
txpolitico,
That WAS my point (directed to Brad earlier in the thread). That was pretty much it. I thought it was rude that Brad was demanding anwers from total strangers and then critique the answers–while refusing to share his own thoughts. I thought I spelled it out pretty clearly.
SB sang “Nessun dorma?” Holy smokes!
The biggest issue with someone like Charlotte Church is that she was sold as an opera singer by her label (run at the time by Peter Gelb, now the manager of the Met Opera.) Singing opera does not make one an opera singer, just like the fact that I cook does not make me a chef by any stretch of that word’s definition. Church was and remains simply incapable of singing the music she was singing on her early albums the way their composers intended. The same goes for Boccelli, though to a lesser degree. Boccelli is a good pop singer (I don’t mean rock, I mean Italian pop ballads), but Verdi and Puccini are out of his league. An ability to sing in a 3000 seat house, over a 100 member orchestra, without a microphone is part of being an opera singer. When you take these things away (and there’s more to being an opera singer than that) – you lose some pretty important things that make one a legitimate opera singer. Brightman is, like Boccelli, trained to sing, but not opera. She’s a Broadway singer and should there remain. Think of it in reverse: how many opera singers make decent pop singers? There have not been traditionally many. None have ventured into things like rock, but even when singing Gershwin and Berlin – most end up sounding like bloated balloons. There are not many Eileen Farrells out there. The very vocal production is completely different when you sing Sicilian pop songs and when you sing Verdi. Church, Brightman, and Boccelli simply don’t have the right training. And some people don’t have the voice, even with training.
One forgives Aretha Frankin’s “Nessun dorma” at the Grammies because she was filling in for an unprofessional Pavarotti. And she belted the hell out of that thing. It wasn’t Puccini, but in the moment even opera fans didn’t care.
For really stunning “Nessun dorma” try Pavarotti (everybody knows that one), Corelli, Domingo, etc.
The lecture endeth here.
masslib,
I really don’t think Bush followers were as bad, but I could be wrong. I did have direct contact with a lot of them. Did you? If so, you may have a better perspective on it than I do.
Why apologize for being blunt? If that what’s called for then go for it.
And what should I have stayed out of? This is a forum of opinions and back and forths. I didn’t realize that you get to decide who can and cannot inject commentary.
You’re WAY over-simplifying my remarks. That’s on you.
bostonboomer -
I don’t post in here very often, but in the few days I’ve tried to make a few contributions. I have, in fact, shared quite a few ideas. I’m not trying to be right, I’m actually trying to learn.
As for me not knowing about a certain woman I know and love having talked abut a project with some folks in here, it’s simply because she didn’t tell me about those conversations. It’s not a man/woman thing. I don’t know the genders of most of the people in here. I don’t know anything about you, for instance, except that you’re (perhaps) from boston.
bostonboomer -
Obama followers AREN’T particularly happy.
Thanks. That’s the kind of thing I’m looking for. And I’m not demanding anything from anyone in here. I’m inviting people who are interested to throw some ideas around.
That’s all.
Wow!
“But I don’t think I’m preening in here and I certainly don’t consider myself a genius. Ideas are my stock in trade, however, and if I AM trying to do anything in here it is to try and stimulate some discussion.”
Time to stop digging. We have some pretty serious discussions here. But you think you have to stimulate them for us. Whew! Genius? Whoever suggested that? Do you think you’re the only one here for whom “ideas are [their] stock in trade?” Just exactly who do you think we are, Brad? A bunch of bitter, gun-toting, religion addicted, deadender white women?
LOL!
I’m heading up to the cocktail party.
DYB,
Yes I know a lot of purists were like WHAT is a soprano doing singing Nessun Dorma?
I do, however, have a deep affection for Miss Brightman. My former partner of seven years and I would go to her concerts, watch her dvd’s…she holds a lot of special memories. But she is one heck of a performer.
I also like her humanitarian side as well. She dedicates Pie Jesu to children killed in political strife.
Well, brad, I think boston is saying a good way to stimulate conversation is to throw out some theories yourself.
Brad,
I defended you yesterday. Did you notice? I also thanked you for all the work you have done. I appreciate both yours and Lori’s work, and you are both very welcome here. My only point was that you need to open up and talk about your own ideas in a give and take manner.
We aren’t naifs here. We are mostly well educated. Many of us work in professional jobs and we’ve given a hell of a lot of thought to the events of this election season. I think there is a lot you could learn from us, but you aren’t going to get it by critiquing people’s responses to you as you did Kat5′s.
txpolitico,
I have my own beliefs about common courtesy. I act on those beliefs. It wasn’t an *apology,* anyway. If you don’t like it, ignore it and move on.
Wow, an “I’m sorry” is not an apology.
Got it!
bostonboomer contributes CONSIDERABLY to this site, not only with posts, but hours of moderation making it the safe haven that you all enjoy. how about showing her a little bit more respect.
bostonboomer -
Of COURSE this place is filled with intelligent people. That’s why I came in here. I used the words “preening” and “genius” because someone used them while critiquing me.
You know, it did occur to me that the subject I was trying to explore had likely been traversed by a lot of the folks in this place all ready. That’s why I asked my questions in here. I was hoping for some good stuff.
Finally, with one exception, I don’t think I was critiquing people’s responses. I don’t think say “there must be more to it than that’ is being critical. I think it’s . . . oh, nevermind.
Would you like fries with that order, ma’ame?
txpolitico67> It’s not a “purist” thing. I don’t mind if a soprano sings “Nessun dorma” in concert. Sometimes a great tune is a great tune and you want to sing it! And I don’t question SB’s right to sing it. My issue is more with SB not being trained to sing opera, which is not like singing Andrew Lloyd Weber, but being sold by her record label as some sort operatic phenomenon. (Ditto Church and Boccelli.) She’s a good Broadway singer; that’s the shelf I leave her on. I used to work at Tower Records by Lincoln Center and the number of people who would come into the opera room looking for her…and then being offended when we told them she was out in “Vocals.” It’s fine that she sings “Nessun dorma” and “Song to the Moon.” But try Pavarotti for the former and Renee Fleming for the latter. (Incidentally, when Renee Fleming sings pop music she sounds like a bloated balloon.)
DYB
Very good points. I did a documentary film about opera training a couple of years ago and was stunned at the rigors of that particular art form. I agree with you about Brightman, by the way. Astonished by her gifts, but she’s not really an opera singer.
Brad> Yes, I googled you and saw that. I’m an editor (well, still assistant editor – sigh) in television and wish I’d worked on your documentary! It sounds fascinating.
But as it turns out, Palin runs with the devil!
“Finally, with one exception, I don’t think I was critiquing people’s responses.”
Brad, you should just take the advice someone gave you to stop digging and just stop.
You’re not going to get away with telling women here that they display a stunning determination to “avoid three dimensional thinking.”
Just apologize and move on.
Nice try at spinning your purpose here, but you’ve been busted, buster.
Zee -
I told one person (whose gender was unknown to me) that an offered answer was lazy. And I did apologize, Zee. I acknowledged that my response was harsh.
But don’t cast me in the role of a misogynist. Man bad woman good? Is that the rule?
And please don’t call call me Buster, Bertha.
gary – what is going on? There has been someone that dropped in here and has been extremely argumentative and everyone has been sucked into trying to reason with them.
Also, why is everyone continuing to fight the label of r*cist?
To Hell with them!
CAROL HAKA
Okay, I’ve got one more thing to say and then I’m out of here.
A few nights ago my significant other was in tears, and I think it was something I said that set her off. I told her that I’d come into the Confluence and that the whole place was jitterbugging over Palin’s debate performance. Now, I DO come in here from time to time, mainly to read what folks in the PUMA movement are saying (I am, after all, making a film about all of this).
Anyway, I told my significant other Lori that I didn’t understand why Palin surviving a debate I thought her to be only marginally prepared for would set off such an incredible level of glee with voters who are diametrically opposed
to pretty much every thing she stands for. Lori was very much annoyed by my question and pulled up a few horribly misogynistic posts on Craig’s List, and said “This is what we’re fighting.”
Okay. Since I don’t spend much time going to political sites, I don’t have a constant reminder of the provocations so many liberal women have been dealing with this past year (and certainly for many decades previous to this). If Lori’s distress is any indication of how other women feel, then it seems to me that we are in a very bad situation, gender-wise.
Which is why I came in here the other day and tried to participate in some discussion. That’s the reason I came in here. To gain a better understanding while sharing, as best I can, from my own perspective.
I gained a lot from today’s discussions, and I hope I gave something back. I don’t think I belong in these threads, at least as a participant. Which is fine. I can go right on reading, under the radar, what you all have to say.
I’ve been invited to speak as a guest on an “enemy” radio show about my film, THE AUDACITY OF DEMOCRACY. I’ve decided to accept that invitation. Both Riverdaughter and MomaPUMA have given these people interviews, on videotape no less (as some of you will see when the film is finished). Personally, I think both these women performed superbly.
I have a couple of months worth of editing left to do on my film. I have almost zero contact with anyone from PUMA, and I guess that’s a good thing, ultimately. Trying to remain detached and all that.
Thanks to one and all for a lively time, and sorry again to Kat5 for my harshness.
I’ll try to do as well in my interview this Thursday as Riverdaghter and MommaPUMA did in theirs, but I doubt I will. But I do feel the need to talk about my film, and the experience I’ve had with the PUMA movement. Hopefully, Lori will be pleased.
bradmays, I’ve wondered what Obama does for his followers, too. I think it’s a potent brew of a lot of things.
I think there is a strong need for revenge against both the Bush regime and, yes, the Clintons. My Obot spouse falls into this camp. He hates the Bush Republicans with a white hot passion and calls Bill Clinton a jerk for getting impeached and ruining a good thing. I fear he is blinded to the ways in which Obamaism resembles that which he despises.
I also think that there is a powerful yearning to put racism behind us for once and for all. Obama’s appeal to white Americans stems from a not unreasonable desire to help bring about justice. He represents an answer to the frustration of not knowing what to do about r@cism, a desire to participate in a solution, instead of being on receiving end of endless recrimination.
The ugly side of Obama’s appeal to white liberals is an unacknowledged exasperation with that politics of recrimination. His followers want to do one thing that will stop African-American complaints for once and for all, to put an end to the guilt trip. Stated bluntly, “Look, I’m not a r@cist, I voted for the black guy. What the hell else do you want?” They want the self-congratulation that comes with that, too. Obama offers absolution on the cheap, he is a Papal indulgence to forgive r@cism. That’s hugely powerful.
There are other active ingredients in the Obama brew, too, but those are some of the big ones that I see.
bradmays, misogyny is huge. Not a whole lot has changed since Stokely Carmichael said tersely that the only position for women in the SNCC was prone. The feminine mystique is alive and well. Today, only through Herculian rhetorical effort, was I able to make my Obot spouse see that I am a legitimate political player with my own interests, and when I or my proxies (those who resemble me with similar interests) are call c*nts and r@cists the conversation comes to a screeching halt.
He doesn’t really believe it’s real. He says, 98% of what’s on the Internet is bullshit, so I only believe primary sources. To me, that’s like saying read the quotations of Chairman Mao but ignore the actions of the Red Guards. Insanely politically naive.
This is the problem we’ve always had with liberal men. When I was child, Billy Jean King played Bobby Riggs and beat the crap out of him. I remember before the match my oh-so-liberal Eugene-McCarthy voting dad laughing about how he was male chauvinist pig. And it hasn’t abated in 35 years. We’re told we’re just toooooooo sensitive, lighten up, it’s a joooooke! We are routinely asked to substitute Mr Man’s opinion for our own perception for the sake of Mr’s comfort and convenience.
Women are 52% of the population but only 17% of the political representation. That is an obscenity, but it doesn’t bother liberal men and their lady enablers a bit. Those of us who state the problem plainly are torn to little pieces, told we’re unf*ckable dry bitter little manhating bitches and r@cists too boot.
What a disturbing article. The very thing I liked LEAST about Obama, the moment I first heard of him, was that quasi-religious fervor that seemed to strike otherwise sane people around me. Nothing that he’s done since, or that anyone has said, has improved my opinion of him. In fact my opinion has gone relentlessly lower.
ugsome -
Thanks for both responses, truly. I am answering you in here because I have no other way to respond, and your posts are so wonderful.
Now, I am history.
My take on CEM—it probably won’t make much sense, but what the hell.
~*~
By Grangatita – Sat Oct 4 – Somewhere in Limbo, H.E.L.L?
Titled: In view of so much pernicious crap floating around as if nothing, I am beginning to wonder if I may need to learn to swim upside down.
“By Courtney E. Martin – Fri Oct 3, 4:00 AM ET – Brooklyn, N.Y.
Titled: “Like so many Americans, I feel as though I am holding my breath.”
Actually, holding the “send’ button (or keeping this piece of holy sh*t hidden somewhere in the entrails of a never to be opened drawer, so help you God!), would have done the trick—but holding your breath for a couple of hours or so doesn’t seem like such bad idea either…
“Could the quiet seed of joy that was planted in my heart the day I heard Barack Obama speak for the first time take root and grow without fear of the brutal storms of disappointment?”
Hmm, have you taken the test to make sure that you are not pregnant? That planting business, than taking root, that growing… Are you sure that all of this is not happening in your tummy instead of your heart? Anyway, in the best-case scenario it could be gas…
“Could a leader that evokes awe in me actually win a presidential election?”
Well, the particular leader that awes you so does actually nothing for me. So, I actually hope (sorry for mentioning hope, copyrighted already?) that the presidential election bypasses him entirely and on with McCain/Palin until 2012—the year of the Hill.
“Could the beauty – and logic – of his words win over the majority of this country’s voters?”
The beauty of his words lost a whole lot of luster once their emptiness of substance became the only glaring truth and—his logic—couldn’t win a minority of voters even when drunk to their gills on tainted kool-aid. OK, though hard to imagine why, I grant that a number of lost souls seem to be in the tank for him.
“Could they see past the lies and distractions to the center of a human being who sincerely wants to invoke citizens’ higher selves?”
Hmmm… could you pass the sober test?
“Could a system that seems so broken, so moneyed, so corrupt actually serve to help the American people elect an authentic, complex thinker? Could it be that – despite all that is wrong with the electoral process – there is enough right to allow a thoughtful candidate to get through the muck and emerge earnest and excited to lead?
Aaah, the emergence of the earnest muck… Honestly? I’m thoroughly scared of muck, lots of much, tiny wads of muck… Yeah, muck stinks and I refuse to hold my nose! Or is it my breath?
“Could the inspirational, not aspirational, America that I was raised to believe in – Eleanor Roosevelt with her Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Martin Luther King Jr. with his dream, and John F. Kennedy with his “ask not” encouragement – be the America that I live in?”
It is the America that you live in; only problem is that all the wonderful human beings that you mention are dead. Indeed, and no matter how much some “complex thinkers” may want to make some useful beyond belief idiots think that they are the embodiment of these three great humanists (kind ‘a like the Trinity?), said sort of “complex thinkers” aren’t fit to mention their name in vain.
“And finally, and perhaps most profoundly, could this country reflect the best within me?”
That depends—are you profoundly nuts or only reflectively so?
“There is part of me, I admit, that is fearful and self-focused and, worst of all, cynical. She understands why people stay home from the polls. But there is another part of me that is courageous and compassionate and, best of all, idealistic. If Senator Obama is elected, I feel as though that best part of me – the best part of all of us – will be given permission to lead.”
Jeebus! Too much crapoleo to bother to comment.
“As Nov. 4 nears, I feel heavy with internal struggle and dangerous anticipation.”
As already mentioned, before Nov 4 nears I would either wait for my next “periodical” or check my gas—you’re welcome.
“I have never voted for a presidential candidate who has won, much less in an election that wasn’t considered potentially corrupt. I have never gone to sleep on Election Day with a sense of accomplishment, with the satisfying congruency of my values and those of the country’s leader merging as one.”
Don’t you think that your track voting record precedes you? Tell you something; unless you want to find yourself under a bus for being a bad omen, I wouldn’t divulge such type of info. Of course it must be hard to sleep. At any rate, hope that this time along you win the political trifecta!
“I have never woken up the next day without a deep, wide sadness, without a sense that my country doesn’t reflect my dearest beliefs, that it actually mocks my youthful enthusiasm for the political process and commitment to following my political heart.”
I think that you need some seriously remedial psychoanalysis. May, never waking up without deep, wide sadness, simply because your country doesn’t reflect your dearest beliefs… Have you thought about that wee, but important notion of, not what your country can do for you, but what can you do for your country to cure your terrible ills? Suggestion—vote for souls who actually love and honor the same country that you live in and a good portion of your ailments should be cured—vote McCain now and Hill in 2012 and, voila!
“Now I watch Obama, a leader who articulates my own ideas and intuitions with the most eloquent grace, on the brink of a presidential miracle. His words about the critical nature of cohesive community, about injustice, about personal responsibility ring so true in my ears. But I’m scared to believe.”
Miraculously, I’m starting to get a sense of youthful glee—yeah, am wicked that way…
“I don’t think that Obama is a “messiah.””
Really? Who would have thunk it!
“I know that he has flaws,”
You go, girl!
“that he will fail in many ways,”
that’s a given!
“that the space between his ideals and his actions…”
…Is as wide as the space between Mercury and Pluto?
“But I am almost certain that he is good deep down, that he believes, as I do, that we could do better, that we could be better, that we are – when stripped of bureaucracy and alienation and skepticism – already better.”
Everyone can be better, and do better, if we put our minds to it, and much as I detest bureaucracy, in this instance not being better and not doing better has nothing to do with it. The problem is the unbelievable amount of empty rhetoric that, far too many, seem to hurl around without pity.
“It is not his inevitable fall from grace that I fear.”
Me either.
“It is the possibility that on Nov. 4, I will find out that my acute craving for a kind and complex leader is not shared by the majority of Americans.”
Well, I think that your acute craving for a Nov 4 unkind, but I grant you, complex leader, is not shared by the majority of Americans. Contrary to popular belief, methinks that most Americans are actually quite sane.
“That conclusion to this breathtaking story would tempt me, not just to be alienated from American politics, but from the American people.”
Alienate, alienate away—perhaps some good might actually come out of this fiasco.
“I fear that the worst part of me would bully the best part with cruel words: “I told you so. Hope is dangerous and naive.”
In view of the high degree of nuttiness exhibited in this here piece of pap, who knows, maybe not even the best part of you is worthy of being donated to some dubious hospital to serve for an anatomy class solely slated for deranged wan ‘a be doctors studying acute silliness. At any rate, if no one has told you already, what’s dangerous as hell is not hope, but the audacity of selling hope like candy to souls who like to think that they are naïve in order to cover their stupidity.
“But what would Obama himself say to that sentiment?”
Well, my solid bet is: What are you smoking? I want some!
“I imagine he’d stay calm, in his top-of-the-lake-on-a-still-day kind of way.”
And I suppose he’d stay high, on the top-of-his-head-while-a-smirking away kind’ a way.
“He’d remind me that his candidacy was never about him, but about me, about all of us.”
And he’s reminding me (and non-stop) that his candidacy was always about him, not about me, not about all of us.
“That it isn’t his victory that confirms America’s greatness, nor his defeat that disproves it;…”
That it is his victory what would confirm America’s lunacy, and his defeat what would disprove it;…
“If Obama is elected, if I am invited to rejoice with the majority of Americans, the best part of me will have a chance to smile triumphantly at the worst.”
If BO is elected, I’m invited to throw up with the majority of Americans, and the worst part of me will have a chance to say FUCK YOU without having to resort to asterisks in order to try make it pass moderation.
“Sometimes you believe in someone and they inspire you right back.”
And sometimes you believe in someone and they throw you under the bus.
“Sometimes kindness and wisdom triumph over fear and brutality.”
And, sadly, sometimes fear and brutality triumph over kindness and wisdom.
“Sometimes this country is as amazing as your wildest imagination of it.”
Your wildest imagination is not only amazing, but also wacko as hell and, unfortunately, not merely sometimes.
• Courtney E. Martin is the author of “Perfect Girls, Starving Daughters” and a columnist for The American Prospect Online.
Even though I don’t expect to get “perfect girls” (AOK would do very well, thank you very much) I wont give my daughters anything written by this out of the realm of possibilities crazy woman if my life depended on it!
Perhaps The American Prospect Line (or any other periodical worth its salt) should make it routine to require thoughtful background checks on nuttiness elevated to the nth degree from their columnists before airing (and without apparent care) their asinine pap. Over and out.
@bradmaysfilmmaker
I just skimmed this thread and I think I have some links, if you wait a second.
@bradmaysfilmmaker
no, I can’t find them now in a hurry. there was something fairly recent on my reader about religion and politics either fulfilling the same needs or using the same tactics. I thought is was on the TED blog, but I don’t see it now. It was a serious piece, not a political one.
You might want to review Eric Hoffer’s “The True Believer.” It’s from the 60′s but still excellent.
Bradmaysfilmaker:
I believe that Obama represents a Liberal Utopia – the Promised Land where everyone has healthcare, racism ends, the Iraq War ends, and education eliminates religion.
@ RD/ Gary?et al.
Something weird has been going on here this past week and I see from my buddy, Carol’s post UT @ 11:22 that I am not alone in noticing. Huge diatribes are posted where conversational posts used to be.
Granted some of us (never I) became verbose from time to time or posted lengthy text from other sources. But this is a new and disturbing element.
It is intrusive and purposeful – to grind our communications to a halt.
HALT! The word is the same in German.
I don’t know who’s doing this, but I do think that in a culture that, by its nature, permitted skinheads and Neo-Nazis protection, other toxic philosophies can arise.
In short, somebody’s effing with us! I can’t have a conversation with Regency, Carol, Pat Johnson etc. WTF??
Every time I come here since before last week, I end up giving up.
We are, and have to be, a coalition. We cannot let the opposition interfere with us. Without our communicative tools, we are dead in the water. And it’s hurricane season!
I dunno how you big bloggers work – I’m just a journal blogger. But it seems to me that somebody has to be minding the store.
S4H:
Things have been weird lately. Weirder than usual, and that’s pretty weird.
It was bad enough when the other side made serious allegations against us with little or no evidence to support the charges, but recently we have seen people we considered friends or at least allies do the same thing.
still 4 hill:
it seems to me that somebody has to be minding the store.
I have offered this before, but there is a domain name at wordpress that is meant for PUMAs
http://pumapac.wordpress.com/
If any PUMA wants to write a post, I would be happy to make them a user.
My purpose in registering this domain name was to reserve it so no one could use it for anti-PUMA shenanigans, however you might discover good use for it for more intense conversations.
I could start an “open thread” over there if there was a consensus.
Nijma, on October 5th, 2008 at 4:18 am Said:
still 4 hill:
it seems to me that somebody has to be minding the store.
I have offered this before, but there is a domain name at wordpress that is meant for PUMA
—————————————————————————————–
Nijma– Thanks for letting me know about this.
only do this when I have time. Right now, though, I’m singing La Marseillaise w/ Casablanca.
You’ll forgive me if I do not recognize your name. I’ve only been here since early August..
Pumas – I just spoke in code.
“Man bad woman good? Is that the rule?”
*applauds* No discussion is complete without this line of defensive bs from a liberal dude.
A little creepy, if you ask me.
Well, it sounds like the ABC may be ready to listen to what went on at the convention, the creepy little kid songs, prayers, and other bad stuff. Maybe the typical stuff is getting boring for them and they’d like to do some real work for a change.
that ain’t the only thing creepy, or creeping…sharia law is too
It’s creepy how much the Obots fit the cult paragram that Issac Bonewitz talked about in his widely used Cult Awareness Checklist.
http://www.celticcrow.com/bonew.html
Yov’ve got some nerve, Blah, Blah, Blah. At least that has some semblance of an actual word. When ANY Republican speaks he sounds altogether like a house party room full of guests. Blah, Blah, Blah…hmmmm, Much better than a constant monotone, monosylabic, monoeverythingelse ‘newspeak’ing Republican. Don’t understand the CONCEPT of Newspeak? Read George Orwell, 1984.