Oooooh, Sarah-cuda!

Still Think I Should Quit, Do Ya?
Still Think I Should Quit, Do Ya?

Well, wasn’t that a lot more interesting than the Presidential debate?

I doubt the two combatants did much to change any minds that are already made up. Those that are voting for O’Biden will still vote for them, whereas those who are voting for McPalin are still going to vote for them. However, here is what the debate DID do, in my opinion:

Sarah Palin dispelled the ridiculous caricatures that the media has been busily shoving down our throats.

No, the woman is not a bimbo. No, she is not an ignorant redneck. And she is not crazy or extreme. She is the girl next door – the smart, driven and attractive one, of course. But more importantly, she is a standard-issue Reagan Republican, which is not a compliment from me, since I hate Reagan with a white-hot passion. However, it is more than thrilling for her base, which has been looking for a new Reagan ever since the man left office in 1988, eight years too late for women, minorities and the middle and poorer classes in America. And her strength, energy, passion, and command of the facts should reassure those on the conservative side that were, either sincerely or insincerely, agitating for her replacement. They will no doubt be over the moon today.

Both Sarah and Joe made the points they wanted to make.

Unfortunately for Joe, his points were not particularly convincing. As I’ve said time and again, Barack Obama’s main problem is that he has ceded far too many points to the Republicans. Thus, Biden was stuck defending Obama’s stupid non-positions, like “The surge worked, but I wouldn’t have voted for it anyway.” On gay rights, Biden made it sound as if the Democratic platform is the same as the Republican platform, when in fact, the O’Biden ticket believes in granting civil unions the same rights as marriage. On offshore drilling, Biden also agreed with Palin, practically chanting “Drill, baby, drill” right along with her.

Joe Biden was also determined to follow the Obama line of attack – that McPalin is Bush. Unfortunately, that attack has not been effective – otherwise, Obama would be 25 points ahead, since Republicans, Democrats, Independents and Rosicrucians all agree that Bush is a horrible President. But Americans don’t like Congresscritters either, and Biden is one, as are McCain and Obama. This strategy of blaming Bush for everything worked in 2006, but now the Democrats share the blame for not impeaching him and ending the war, as they promised to do. They said they would drain the swamp, but they left the biggest messes untouched.

Of course, I disagree with Palin on almost every issue, so to see the candidate I should be able to vote for performing so poorly was quite depressing. Her points were not convincing to me either, but they were well-made, concise and devastating. Debating is about framing, and there’s nothing that Republicans do better than that. (Certainly not governing, as we’ve seen for the past eight years.)

By the way, Gwen Ifill, despite my ribbing of her yesterday, was not heavily biased towards Biden. Obviously, she should have recused herself, and I wish she had. Some of her questions were quite sophomoric, some even morbid (why did she ask that “heartbeat away” question? Ewwwww), and I don’t know why she didn’t bring up the issue of abortion, which is one of the things that Americans fear most about the Governor. Does she feel that it’s a personal issue and not a political one, the way I do – that the government should have no jurisdiction or say into what a person does with her own body? Or was she just trying to avoid controversy? It is, as the King of Siam would say, a puzzlement.

In any case, I would say that Sarah did a wonderful job last night. Too bad she’s not a liberal, but she did show America that women (yes, even pretty ones) can hold their own with the big boyz. It will make it so much easier for the next woman, or women, who run for national office. For that alone, women all over America owe her, and all those who came before her, like Geraldine Ferraro, Shirley Chisholm and our beloved Hillary, a great debt of thanks.

Or perhaps, a song!

154 Responses

  1. [...] at The Confluence Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Obama responds to PalinTopic A: How They [...]

  2. madamab: Your essay speaks for me. You have perfectly articulated where I am coming from. Great minds………….?

  3. reposting this: check out the obama youth video on Sugar N Spice

    http://sugarnspice.typepad.com/sugar_n_spicea_meeting_pl/2008/10/more-obama-yout.html

  4. Good morning everyone! And what a new day it is! : )

  5. PJ – Coming from you, that’s a great compliment.

    {{{Pat}}}

  6. What kills me is watching liberals around me mock, deride, and belittle her. Don’t we learn a damn thing? How well did that work with Reagan and Bush? Yeah, calling ‘em stupid kept them from getting elected! Works every time! Not. We keep underestimating these people’s political chops and connection to their base (which liberals refer to as a big bunch of stupid people who shouldn’t exist) and they keep kicking our ass.

    Now that I’m not part of the smug club anymore, I am starting to get what annoys the Reagan base so much about dealing with liberals. I too am now STUPID because I object to Obamaism as a political phenomenon, do not like that candidate, and see aspects of Sarah that do not jibe with consensus reality. I am now the object of liberal scorn just for speaking my mind, and I do not like it.

  7. Excellent madamab, exactly what I am thinking. Thank you. Ya know, Palin managed to connect with more “real folks” in 90 minutes than BO has in his whole career of running for POTUS. Sad.

  8. She did beautifully. She even exceeded my expectations. She was authentic, the real deal. No offense to Biden, but he’s a 30 yr veteran of DC politics and he is only play acting at being a part of the change ticket. Biden’s been in DC even longer then McCain.

  9. I don’t think Murphy has been on Cavuto. That was Diane Montavoulos of JustSayNoDeal.

  10. David Brooks on Sarah:

    There she was, resplendent in black, striding out like a power-walker, and greeting Joe Biden like an assertive salesman, first-naming him right off the bat.

    …..
    By the end of her opening answers, it was clear she would meet the test. She spoke with that calm, measured poise that marked her convention speech, not the panicked meanderings of her subsequent interviews.

    …Thursday night she spoke like a normal person. It took her about 15 seconds to define her persona — the straight-talking mom from regular America — and it was immediately clear that the night would be filled with tales of soccer moms, hockey moms, Joe Sixpacks, main-streeters, “you betchas” and “darn rights.” Somewhere in heaven Norman Rockwell is smiling.

    With a bemused smile and a never-ending flow of words, she laid out her place on the ticket — as the fearless neighbor for the heartland bemused by the idiocies of Washington. Her perpetual smile served as foil to Biden’s senatorial seriousness.

    …..On Thursday night, Palin took her inexperience and made a mansion out of it. From her first “Nice to meet you. May I call you Joe?” she made it abundantly, unstoppably and relentlessly clear that she was not of Washington, did not admire Washington and knew little about Washington. She ran not only against Washington, but the whole East Coast, just to be safe.

    To many ears, her accent, her colloquialisms and her constant invocations of the accoutrements of everyday life will seem cloying. But in the casual parts of the country, I suspect, it went down fine. In any case, that’s who Palin is.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/03/opinion/03brooks.html?ref=opinion

  11. ugsome -

    Now that I’m not part of the smug club anymore, I am starting to get what annoys the Reagan base so much about dealing with liberals. I too am now STUPID because I object to Obamaism as a political phenomenon, do not like that candidate, and see aspects of Sarah that do not jibe with consensus reality. I am now the object of liberal scorn just for speaking my mind, and I do not like it.

    Yes, it has been quite an awakening for me as well. I used to think people were stupid when they disagreed with me politically too. It never occurred to my elitist brain that gee, maybe they had their reasons. DUH!

  12. audacity: What exactly are you talking about? Brad Mays, through his wife Lori, put together a film that explores voting fraud that took place during the primaries. Those charges had been made independently by caucus workers throughout. The film is designed to show how far this candidate and his minions have gone through manipulation and intimidation to get him to this level. I applaud anyone who is out to expose corruption.

    As for Murphy, what is it you are trying to say against her? Yes, the statement “party unity my ass” originated on this blog and was thrown out there by a commentator who spoke for all of us following the debacle we witnessed on May 31st. Murphy took that and created her own PUMA pac as a result. PUMA pac has been active in getting the word out regarding us “deadenders” who are totally opposed to Obama. And I think that Murphy would be the first to agree that she is not another Katie Couric when appearing as a commentator.

    I am confused as to why you are so vociferous in your statement. Perhaps an explanation would help rather than just vindictive being thrown out there without backup.

  13. I think i am going to be sarah palin for halloween this year. i know it’s not very original for a gay guy to do drag for halloween, but miss sarah got’s some spunk.

    nice to see a little conviction in a politician, albeit i don’t agree with her, but at least u know where she stands.

  14. PJ – yes, audacity needs to tone it down a lot.

    I don’t even know what the poster was trying to say.

  15. WMCB – Huh. BoBo understands her appeal. Who woulda thunk it?!

  16. txplitico67: As long as you don’t turn into RuPaul, go for it!!

  17. I loved the whole shabang last night.

    When Sarah said “Say it ain’t so, Joe” ….. I had a flashback of Geraldine telling Bush “Don’t patronize me.”

    :)

    I wish SP was more liberal, but at least I get the sense she’s *tolerant* – I can handle that for 48 months until Hillary takes her place in 2012.

    I have a feeling when Hillary gets in office, I’m going to wish we were a Monarchy…. crown her Queen and keep her there… I can dream can’t I?

  18. This is OT but YOU HAVE GOT TO SEE THIS VIDEO. It is repulsive. It is another example of the Obama cult using young people to further their obsession. Young people need encouragement and inspiration but this is mind control in its worst form:

  19. WMCB @ 11:26 am:

    David Brooks has come around, finally.

  20. Brad is trying to help get our message out there. He is an ally and our friend as is Murphy, Will Bowers, DIane and the other lady, of HireHeels.

  21. ok not on cavuto. she got slapped by davis shuster on msnbc

    anyway, she was on defensive and a loser for the cause. maybe she can learn from palin

    here r all the clips. she is like some 12 years old, sulking that she did not get a new pair of snickers.

    pouting. now that is a PUMA?! that means action?!!!!!! she had the time to prepare herself with the wrong little black dress but not prepare the materials and the ideas she had to bring across. even will bower sucked on that interview. i was crying how bad they represent us.

    Diane Montavoulos was the only one who was a strong speaker for the cause and stopped all the talkingheads to put words in her mouth. yes maybe i’m too militant, but PUMA i guess should be about militancy. especially how it was born

    thanks sm77

    Party Unity My Ass

  22. FemTheDem -

    I have a feeling when Hillary gets in office, I’m going to wish we were a Monarchy…. crown her Queen and keep her there… I can dream can’t I?

    Bless your heart, that made me laugh out loud!

    I’m so ridiculous, I’m already wondering who her VP will be. I’m guessing a young, female up-and-comer.

  23. That video is scary, scary, scary. What’s next? Weathermen telling us Obama is responsible for the sun shining today? Holy guacamole!!! Will this ever end?

  24. I did not watch the debate but got my information from here last night.
    Everyone says Gov Palin did good. I am very glad.
    We need someone that still remembers the people of this country.
    It seems that once politicians get in office in Washington the swamp gas affects their brain and they forget who they represent.
    From the bits and pieces that I saw I don’t think Gov Palin will forget.

    COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  25. Gateway Pundit (yeah, yeah, I know, conservative site) has pics up of the after-party for Palin. HUGE rally (she rode into the hall on the Straight Talk Express bus), and also pics of Obama’s somber and almost empty campaign office.

    But the best pic by far is the shot of the media – their faces, slumping there in their seats, says it all.

    http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/palin-biden-debate-at-washington.html

  26. audacity – How about you go out and defend us on TV, then? I’m sure it will be very easy for you. It’s such a cakewalk being attacked by a bully with a microphone.

    If you are frustrated about something, please articulate it without blaming people who, whatever their imagined shortcomings, are actually DOING SOMETHING for the PUMA cause.

  27. The trouble with Biden is that, when he was saying the things I most agreed with, I also knew he was lying thru his bright, shiny teeth. Just one example – he was not a reluctant supporter of the AUMF, but a pom-pom waving cheerleader.

    No offense to you, MadamaB, but anyone who believes Mr. Faith-and-Values Tour will actually enact the party’s promise regarding civil unions, I have a big bridge to sell them just a ways down the river from my office building. A candidate who supports gay rights simply would not have drafted anti-gay activists for his campaign, not just once, but twice.

    Besides, experience has shown that “civil unions” are NOT treated the same as marriage. I support eliminating the word “marriage” from the government codes and calling them all civil unions for its purposes, leaving “marriage” for the religious types and common parlance. Won’t happen, of course, but it would be the fair and just thing to do.

    I’m getting to like Sarah Palin, and I wish she espoused policies I was in tune with. But I have no faith that Obama sincerely backs anything better. I’m thinking whoever wins, it’ll be another four years of crossing my fingers and hoping they don’t screw things up worse than I can handle.

  28. ugsome and madamab, I’m with you. As dismal as this election year has been, it’s also been a great opportunity for self-discovery.

  29. there is no message out at this moment. only for history books.

    at this moment there r only 2 messages out

    vote Obama

    vote anti-Obama

    the rest of the tickets r irrelevant

    the irony is that:

    in 2004 we accused the greens to take away florida. maybe is tru. donna brazile really screw up he recount-request

    this time, if you vote for greens, u r helping obama and the Dems. but u r taking away votes for macain. in an election were obama will cheat like he did in the caucuses. did not the PUMA’s learn their lesson ONCE and for all.

    it is not too late. i hope soo

    reminder: may 31st and the roll call vote at the convention. FISA, extended faith initiatives, shadow civilian army.

    and the most disgusting one is indoctrinating the childrens. now i will say: that’s child abuse.

  30. audacity: Have you considered a chill pill along about now? Some of these people are no different than us. Everyday, average working Americans who are essentially grassroots. They are not political professionals yet they are putting themselves out there because they have something to say.

    It may not meet your standards, but this is not the arena that they have been groomed for. I doubt many of us here would pass the Diane Sawyer test. Condemning someone because they were not up to whatever standards you have set is simply unfair. These are just the Average Voter whose voice has been routinely drowned out. Congratulations are in order that they took the time to present themselves while you stood by and offered nothing more than a dose of ridicule.

  31. madamab, on October 3rd, 2008 at 11:38 am Said:

    doing something for the cause?! actually i’m voting mccain without tip-toing around like you who in MA thinks that u have a good excuse to not vote or to vote green ……

    or writing little dramas?!

  32. audacity — what the heck are you on about? Murphy didn’t ’steal’ anything. Did you even watch the video, which has both RD and Murphy on it? Both are clearly collaborating with Brad.

    The Confluence and Puma Pac sites work together — they’ve fundraised together and cross post, and a lot of people ‘belong’ to both sites. What is this about militancy? Do you know what that word means?

    The only thing that binds us all in PUMAdom ideologically is no Obama and being for (true) democratic ideals. (Many other things bind us in other ways, but everyone is free to express their opinions).

    Are you a (rather bad) concern troll? I just don’t get it.

  33. WMCB
    Did you see the smile on First Dude’s face.
    He is so proud of her.
    I think John McCain was smart enough to pick a winner.
    She and her family connect with America.
    The dnc forgot how to connect with America and pick an unqualified loser.
    She is not Senator Clinton but look at her eyes, both have joy and inteligence and what I call talking eyes.

    COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  34. sister of ye – I know. I don’t believe O’Biden on gay rights, but their stated position is different from the one Joe Biden articulated. Biden missed an opportunity to differentiate there.

    What is ironic to me is that marriage and civil unions are ALREADY equal in terms of legal rights. I was married to my hubby at City Hall, and am considered married, not civilly united. Why? Because we are opposite sexes? That is ridiculous. Where is that in the Constitution?

    We need an ERA for the GLBT community as well as for women. It’s the umbrella under which all of these civil rights issues will be decided.

  35. I thought Palin ran circles around Biden.
    She comes across as genuine. He comes across as a guy who wants to pound down three or four martinis, press some flesh and be Obama’s court jester.

  36. audacity – You’re done.

  37. audacity: madamab is from New York, I am in MA. Please try to sort your facts from fiction before challenging us on this blog. Your attitude is not welcome. None of us is tip toeing around but actually struggling with an unwelcome position. Don’t insult madamab or anyone else here who are sharing with one another. It is unseemly and unwarranted and it will not be tolerated.

  38. An Obot site i don’t trust is saying the house will vote on the bailout today. Any truth to that? Is this the same bill that already passed the senate?

    They are posting this link:

    http://sherman.house.gov/081001comprehensive_article.pdf

    Am I the only one who thinks we need hearings?

  39. What happened to Will Bower? Very affable guy. Haven’t heard him on blog radio for a while.

    As for Diane Mantouvalos, she can certainly stop heads, in more ways than one. Very beautiful and held her own on Hardball.

  40. What the hell is wrong with people these days!!!!!!!!!!!!! The woodwork must be emptying out as they make their debuts!

  41. Nijma: They are supposed to be voting sometime this afternoon. And yes, hearings are definitely in order. We can look for them sometime during the year 2097.

  42. madamab, Call me a cynic but I’m thinking that Biden didn’t screw up. I’m thinking he was told not to mention the difference with their position on gay rights. I’m thinking that they figure the folks who care about gay rights already know the difference and those who don’t care about gay rights, well, let’s not scare them off.

  43. Audacity – you’re done, I told you that.

    Enough. You’re just pulling stuff out of your *ss and insulting PUMA founders for no reason.

    None of us needs that, and I have no idea why you think we would welcome it.

  44. audacity: murphy stole nothing. She was applying as a 527 and wanted to be taken seriously. People United Mean Action is just as legitimate as party unity my ass. Murphy is a friend and comrade in arms. We don’t begrudge her a thing. No one worked harder in Denver. As for Shuster, he was aggressive and misleading. Do I wish Will had been more forceful? Yup. I have asked foe media appearances from Diane and Will but they’re media hogs, but they don’t share well.

  45. gxm17 – I wonder that too. I thought it was very strange that he allowed that parallel to be drawn.

    I think Joe was in a tough position last night. He didn’t come across as sincere, and had a lot of anger that seemed misdirected.

  46. madamb-

    I’m so ridiculous, I’m already wondering who her VP will be. I’m guessing a young, female up-and-comer.

    Haha, not ridiculous at all. I started daydreaming about her Appointments and Cabinet in the Primaries and haven’t stopped since :) If she were our Nominee right now, I’m sure I’d even be pondering what color pantsuit she’d select fot her Inauguration :)

  47. RD, I hardly recognized you. : )

  48. I am just coming back to the Confluence for first time after the debates. So I’ve probably missed the lion’s share of the discussion.

    I really thought Biden came off poorly. I thought his
    emotional moment reeked of craziness. Alcoholics have crying jags like that. Seemed a Sgt. Shriver moment to me. I’m waiting to see if anyone picks up on it.

  49. WMCB, on October 3rd, 2008 at 11:37 am

    Those pics painfully remind me of Hill’s rallies and what should have been…. sad .
    But McCain picking Palin shows one hell of amount of judgement on his part IMO. My sister had a good comment, she said McCain’s VP choice was about the GOP’s future but Obama VP choice was about the Dem past….Interesting .

  50. The abortion question was left out because Biden is pro-life due to his faith, and because he would handle the question like Palin. She has personal beliefs but does not allow them to affect legislation.

    NYTimes
    As a Matter of Faith, Biden Says Life Begins at Conception
    By KATE PHILLIPS
    Published: September 7, 2008
    WASHINGTON — Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., the Democratic nominee for vice president, departed Sunday from party doctrine on abortion rights, declaring that as a Catholic, he believes life begins at conception. But the Delaware senator added that he would not impose his personal views on others, and had indeed voted against curtailing abortion rights and against criminalizing abortion.

    While Mr. Biden’s views may not be new to Democrats in his circle, his comments, in an interview on “Meet the Press” on NBC, came at a time when his party is confronted with a new face: Gov. Sarah Palin, the Republican vice-presidential nominee, whose anti-abortion stance and decision to give birth just five months ago to a baby with Down syndrome have revved up the conservative base of her party.

    In the interview Sunday, Mr. Biden tried to walk the line between the staunch abortion-rights advocates in his party and his own religious beliefs. While he said he did not often talk about his faith, he said of those who disagree with him: “They believe in their faith and they believe in human life, and they have differing views as to when life — I’m prepared as a matter of faith to accept that life begins at the moment of conception.”…

    …At the Democratic convention in Denver, the party’s platform was indeed expanded to embrace anti-abortion views.

    _________________________________________________

  51. gxm17 – I am curious to know why you think that Obama’s position is any different than what Biden articulated last night. IMO it is not.

    Obama has no gay friends. He said he had a professor that was gay and the reason he liked him is because he did not proselytize. Wow – how ignorant. When pressed for the professor’s name Obama could not remember. Obama is a liar.

    Obama is a homophobe and us gay folk know it.

  52. I am an annoying troll. Pay no attention to me.

    [edited for clarity]

  53. madamab: Joe did not come across as sincere since he was defending something he does not believe in. Hard to boost Obama when there is not “there” there. If you follow my drift.

  54. \OT
    No Quarter has a post up about the bailout and AIG and Europe.
    This is bigger than we thought.

    COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  55. You know people are edgy and it is starting to rear up here. One thing I love about this site is the passion and commitment to truth. We don’t all need to sing the same song and it is okay. I think we are afraid of Obama and what his “people” represent and are reacting to the polls that keep getting broadcast. Remember everyone this is exactly what was going on regarding Hillary in the primaries. They kept saying she couldn’t won. She blow them out of the water each and every time. Turn off the TV, stay away from the newspapers and the rest of the MSM. They’ll make us nuts. They are trying to suppress voter turn out. Sarah was wonderful. She disappointed the MSM. There is a whole month left. I think McCain and the Repubs were waiting to see how last night went. Today is a new day. I actually don’t know that many people that are voting for Obama. AndI work at a university. I’ve noticed that the Obama supporting people are very vocal about it. Everyone else remains quiet. It has been pretty quiet around here lately.

  56. But more importantly, she is a standard-issue Reagan Republican, which is not a compliment from me, since I hate Reagan with a white-hot passion.

    I wouldn’t defend everything Reagan ever did, but…

    I can give a very simple explanation for why Reagan got elected twice. He knew the difference between the good guys and the bad guys.

  57. PJ – I agree!

    SOD – I believe audacity is nothing but a troll. I have yet to hear anything accurate or PUMA-tic from this poster. So far it has spent the day attacking Brad Mays, Darragh Murphy (or Diane Mantavolous, it’s not sure) and accusing activists of not doing anything to help the PUMA cause.

    It needs to go away.

  58. yup. Obama is a homophobe. Ask Donnie McClurkin.
    Ask Donald Young– oh right, I guess you can’t do that.

    The official positions of McCain and Oick are the same:
    civil unions, not gay marriage.

    At least when Palin talks, I believe she means what she says. If she backs up civil unions, then she backs up civil unions.

    Obama would make soylent green out of any group of people that would further his canter to the white house.

    And Biden is strongly reminding me of that cliche Hollywood character who is the right hand of a demagogue. The Biden character stays drunk all the time, putting out little blips of moral outrage at the demagogues greatest excesses, but never moving out to oppose him. Biden is in the tank in more ways than one.

  59. It’s quite possible that I’m confusing him/her with someone else, but isn’t “audacity” a PUMA?

    Wondering if someone has hijacked aud’s handle-I never saw audacity post anything like this before.

  60. JohninCA – No, he defined everything in terms of good guys and bad guys. He was a great framer. He made really, really bad ideas sound good.

    She has the same power and charisma.

  61. Who is this audacity?

    I personally know a person in that documentary you called a fraud. I was with her at the precinct and senate conventions in TX. She is telling the truth.

    Your words are wrong and divisive.

  62. Linda, on October 3rd, 2008 at 12:02 pm

    Good post! Thank you!

  63. If I recall right, in 1980 combined inflation and unemployment were about 20%. Hostages were in Iran,largely because our government had undermined the Shah.

    Jimmy Carter had just signed Salt II. So Reagan ran a commercial showing Carter kissing Brezhnev and telling everyone that this was their chance to kiss off Jimmy Carter.

  64. Palin voted against anti-gay rights measures in Alaska – I can’t remember all the details off hand (meaning she walks the talk).

  65. audacity is out of line, IMO. We do not have time or energy for petty turf wars.

  66. Obama would make soylent green out of any group of people that would further his canter to the white house.

    This is one of the best and funniest analysis I have read so far surrounding Obama. Would make a wonderful sampler!

  67. JohninCA – Yes, and that was just as deceptive as the rest of Reagan’s presidency.

    Can we just agree to disagree on Reagan? If you like him, that’s fine.

  68. I think Palin is less homophobic than Obama, in reality. I agree with the posters who have said so. Biden, I don’t think gives a rat’s butt who does what with whom, but he has thrown his lot in with the homophobe, so he has to back the guy up.

    Sigh. When can I wake up from this nightmare?

  69. madamab, yes, it sure is an eye opener, isn’t it? And it’s just the attitude I’ve had to deal with as a member of the Ladies’ Auxiliary of Enlightened Liberal Nation my whole life. Should I stray a bit from accepted liberal thought, I am cast out and invited to join Those Benighted People who are stupid and ought not exist, whom we wish we could turn off and put on a shelf when their work day of driving trucks and stocking shelves is done.

  70. madamab– Reagan went to the Berlin wall and said: “Tear down this wall.”

    No mainstream politician had talked like that. Everything had to be cleared with the foreign policy establishment. Even JFK, a cold warrior and a great orator in his own right, only said: Ich bin ein Berliner.

    I think the American people loved the beauty and simplicity of what Reagan said, which surpassed even the great line from John F Kennedy.

  71. SOD – I think it’s very possible that audacity has been namestolen. A couple of days ago, the poster said its new name was “i’m color blind.” Its posting has declined quite a bit since then.

    “Color” me suspicious!

  72. JohninCA – Reagan was a great framer. I have already said that. But how did he govern?

    He was one of the worst presidents we’ve ever had. Ask any woman, person of color or working class/poor person who lived during his benighted era.

    Bush is worse because Reagan actually was able to see the error of his borrow-and-spend ways near the end of his term, and raised taxes several times, which began to repair the damage he did to the economy. Bush is such an extremist that he refuses to do even that.

  73. The avatars are uniquely assigned to emails, are they not? So if someone “hijacks” a username using a different email, one can tell by the avatar, I would guess. Unless the original user has multiple emails that he/she uses.

  74. I’ve seen audacity’s post on other blogs too-never anthing like this.

  75. I could never understand the “lovefest” surrounding Reagan. Color me “opaque” but his attraction escapes me as much as the attraction toward Obama. Just does.

  76. Well, of course life begins at conception. The little blastocyst is definitely alive. For that matter, so was the egg and sperm. The question is, is that little ball of cells a full-fledge human life worthy of legal rights that trump its mothers. Whole different question.

    The Catholic Church’s position – which is historically very recent – is theologically absurd. 50-80% of fertilized eggs never implant or spontaneously abort within weeks. It posits an incredibly callous god who deisgned a system that kills off 4/5s of human life he created. That’s pro-life? Seriously?

    Guess you can see why, even if I had the proper “plumbing,” I’d never be elected pope.

  77. Dee, I actually agree with you. I was only saying that I believe that Biden was told to avoid the issue and not elaborate on any points that may set them apart from the Republican ticket. (Which to me is evidence of pandering to the homophobic contingent.) I don’t think Obama is pro-gay. I actually think that Sarah Palin comes across as more gay friendly. To me, at least, her stance came across as genuine. That’s just my opinion of course.

  78. SofYe – LOL!

    They just need to leave my uterus alone. It’s mine and no government can tell me what to do with it.

    For the record, I wish the abortion question had come up, so that Sarah could talk about her libertarian leanings in that direction. A lot of women are terrified that she is going to force them to bear unwanted children. She has already said that decision would be up to individuals in Alaska, even in the event of the overturn of Roe v. Wade (which will never happen anyway).

  79. I agree with the thoughts of SOD and others. I understand completely the feeling of desperation at the thought of Obama as POTUS and the impact of that on the U.S. and all of its people. But interpersonal respect for differing opinions, positions and choicse in the voting booth is a hallmark of the Confluence. I appreciate that practice of respect and don’t think violating it to tear pieces out of other positions and posters is the way to go.

  80. The question is, is that little ball of cells a full-fledge human life worthy of legal rights that trump its mothers. Whole different question.
    ************
    I love this-”trump” it mother’s.

    Personally I’m really glad they didn’t bring this issue up at the debate.
    Anything Palin said would have been twisted and spun and used against her, no matter what she actually said.

  81. So many people put their deepest held beliefs
    (well they said they were their deepest held beliefs)
    on hold when they decided that the pied piper obama was just too adorable to resist.

    I won’t bother mentioning their names because they aren’t worthy of mention, but it seemed a wide spread tragedy.

    Now, I have the feeling that those true causes people jettisoned are going to be the downfall of each of them.
    Karma coming home to roost and all.

    Personalities should never forget that LGBT rights, women’s rights, privacy rights, the right of universal health care– all these rights are greater than individuals. Once the dust settles, we are going to be looking at these people and they will have no credibility.

    Example: NOW. Turning it’s back on a woman because she has her own voice to follow. Villanizing her. My favorite quote is a woman on tv saying:” yes we want women to run for office. We just don’t want them to necessarily win.”

    Example: LGBT community members who, even though they criticized Obama for being homophobic hopped into the tank– giving no explanation for the sudden reversal.

  82. Reagan was a professional actor. He could deliver a line very well, even once his mental was seriously deteriorating.

    The processes that broke up the Soviet Union were well under way and had little to do with Reagan, and certainly not with his famous line. Reagan was a dirty backstabber going back to his days as a supposed Democrat. He was the first politician I found genuinely scary, far exceeding Richard Nixon, who in his own warped way actually cared about the country. But people knew Nixon for what he was, and you’ll never see a Cult of Tricky Dick.

  83. audacity: Your apology should be directed towards madamab.

  84. madamab, I don’t agree with deficit spending. I didn’t agree with it under Reagan.

    It is not the case that if one praises one policy, or one speech, that one has embraced an entire presidency.

    What I can tell you is how far the parties have moved in the last half century. John F Kennedy– the last Democrat who would have gotten my vote, although he ran before I was born– cut taxes and his supreme court appointee, Byron White, on balance proved more pro-life than Reagan’s.

    This is an astonishing shift in half a century and, while we will probably disagree, I consider it for the worse. And yes, I am a ‘working class/poor person,’ mostly the latter.

  85. That should be “mental state,” but I’m sure you figued that out. Obviously mine needs more coffee.

  86. A picayune point, but I think illustrative.

    Last night when Biden was trying to make the point that he was just “Average Joe,” one of the things he said was, “Go down to Katie’s restaurant and listen…”

    Katie’s has been closed for years.

    Can you imagine what the MSM would have done to Hillary over this? I guess the long and short of it is — it pays to be like Biden where everyone is used to the “tickle your tonsils with your toes” trick.

  87. I was really happy last night watching Sarah triumph. But I was still a little sad wondering what could have been if Hillary was there.

  88. It just proves that a candidate elevated and nurtured by the press could come out and proclaim that the world is flat and be exonerated for just having a bad night. Ha Ha. The press is so in the tank for Obama that they refuse to even look at his background which has been sending red flags out there for months.

  89. Yeah, if Hillary had won we could have been watching Obama debate Palin!

  90. gxm17, I get the sense from both Sarah and McCain that they could give a rat’s ass about doing anything legislatively against gays, and only toe the party line so as not to piss off their base. Sarah is a “your business is your business, not mine” sort of gal, who is completely comfortable with gay citizens in real life. I think both of them would be relieved if they could free their party from the lunatics, but until then sort of have to play the game.

    Whereas Obama is probably politically freer to take a strong pro-gay rights stance, and instead of using that freedom, panders to the far right even more than McCain does on the issue! Part of that is likely the dirty little Dem secret that a big portion of the AA community is just as homophobic as the Falwells of the world, and I believe Obama and Michelle are among them.

  91. Wow Prolix, seriously?
    Sheesh. I was caught up in the fact that Joe says he’s a regular at Home Depot. I wanted Ifill to ask Joe what grades sheetrock comes in, or what the dimension of plywood is.
    too funny. what a goof.

  92. lucky thing for all stressed out bloggers-our congress cares!

    Mental health parity has become an important part of the huge emergency financial bailout!

    SOD our ECT might be covered.

  93. WMCB, I completely agree. It’s sad, and scary, how many of what I thought were core Democratic principles have been tossed under that Obama bus this year.

  94. I think we are all suffering from a case of PMS.

  95. Hi Pat!
    You don’t have any reese’s peanut cups left, do you?

  96. pat
    i think they covered that in the “emergency bill” as well.

  97. right after the tax exempt wooden arrows intended for use bu children.

  98. The Puma blog has a new post about the bailout. Looks like they need to turn 12 reps to get it passed:

    http://blog.pumapac.org/2008/10/03/this-is-another-edition-of/

    I will be calling my congress critter rep now, and asking for hearings. If it does pass, it won’t be because I didn’t do anything.

  99. angelasmith: I had to replenish my supply yesterday as a matter of fact. Those trick or treaters may be out of luck if my agita continues. Chomp, chomp all day. I am unbelievable!

  100. I told audacity to stop posting for now and RD agreed s/he should be put in timeout, which will happen shortly.

    I don’t see any apologies to me, Brad Mays or Darragh/Diane, who were directly and pointlessly insulted by this poster.

    There is no excuse for being such an insulting jerk here on this board. RD has made it a place where people respect each other and we should all honor that, especially when people are on edge.

    Audacity – you need to take it elsewhere until you can be polite in your disagreement, and at least maintain some semblance of accuracy in your statements. So sayeth RD.

  101. eventually, the conversation always seems to involve chocolate.

  102. Personally, I’m interested in the Puerto Rican Rum
    earmark. I believe alcohol has always done quite well in times of economic difficulties. I don’t think they need an extra added boost.

  103. Hey Pat, can you slide a couple of those peanut butter cups this way? I need a little something to round out my breakfast of coke and doritos.

  104. Under the bailout they will be distributing the rum to the poor suckers who will be picking up the tab for many, many years…

  105. Can I ask an OT question? I really need help.

  106. It changed some minds! I just talked to my brother this am. He has 2 college students and both have worked for O in OR. My brother is not a leftist radical; he’s a real main street guy but he did not like Clinton. So he took a clue from his kids and went for Obama. As I talked to him this am, he mentioned how impressed he was last night by Palin. By the time we finished, he said, I’m changing my vote. I am voting McCain Palin. It was not just Palin but also the economic crisis, Pelosi—he can’t stand—and the Dem’s revealed defending FF. He saw the Oreilly play with Barney Frank and heard the Dem’s defending FF. He as always been a Dem so this was a huge step for him. My bet is his other children who are blue collar guys will follow in his footsteps—3 of them. I am so stoked by this and by Sarah P. Yesterday, I was ready to assume the fetal position. Hope we make up some poll #s today and tomorrow.

  107. So, it won’t be “buddy can you spare a dime?”
    It’ll be “Buddy, can you spare a mai tai?”

  108. I am about to walk out on my job, in tears.

  109. We know we are slipping into another realm when we become our own hated tr*olls.

    madamab: I am off to a Jewish lunch today! Chopped liver and egg on rye with pickle and cream soda. Sounds good? My neighbor called this morning and made me an offer I cannot refuse. It was her Mom who used to make it and send it over to me all the time.

    Putting the Reese’s aside. For now.

  110. Kim: What is the matter?

  111. I am an annoying troll.

    [edited for concision]

  112. Kim,
    I know nothing about your situation but this a really shitty time to look for a job

  113. As you all know I am a certified paralegal. I work for a relatively young attorney. I have been here about a year and a half and I took a reduction in pay of about $12,000 for this job. This reduction has caused me to seek part-time employment to pay my daughter’s tuition. Anyway, I have asked for an increase several times and have been told, no, with the economy we can’t afford it. I can handle that, what I can’t handle is that I have put about $9000 in billable time over a three-month period for shapely blondes that he is doing pro bono work for, because they are his “friends”.

  114. Oh yum, PJ!

    TRK – What’s up? Gary has a new thread up – maybe we should move up there so you can ask more people?

    BTW – just read audacity’s “apology.” LOL! Basically s/he is saying my playwriting sucks because I didn’t include something s/he thinks I should have.

    WHAT. EVER.

  115. did mercury go retro or something? sheesh, the last few days have been weird

  116. go suck an egg, Mitch.

  117. What’s up Kim?

  118. @ 12:53, Stupidity continues unabated among the Obamabots.

  119. more cleanup at 12:52

    something, dakini-holy hell has broken loose. strange times indeed.

  120. more details Kim

  121. What should I do?

  122. I’m a sorry sack of sh#$!!!

  123. Mitch is just jealous because Sarah’s pair is bigger than his.

  124. All of my time is being consumed by these women, I can’t settle cases, order medicals or anything because I am doing free work for his friends, so how can we make more money so that I can stop this second job if all I am doing is free work?

  125. mitch, YOU have no d**k

  126. Mitch, those free bj’s, you aren’t getting one. Go blow yourself.

  127. I work for attorneys, there is usually one under every rock.

  128. Kim, maybe you can find a new job before you quit that one, and meanwhile, spit in his coffee every day.

  129. Kim, I don’t get it yet. Are you on salary, or are you paid a percentage of the attorney’s fees?

  130. Mitch, don’t worry your silly little head about us. Just run along back to your obot playgroup before mommy realizes you’ve run off.

  131. I am salary, but the reason I don’t get a raise is supposedly because we aren’t bringing in enough fees from billable hours. My time is billed, so is his. We aren’t billing these women at all. We also aren’t concentrating on billable because we are working on their cases. Hence, not much money coming in.

  132. Jesus, there’s a guy looking out for his people.

    Is this attorney a partner where you work? Is there a hierarchy or are you stuck with him as your only
    person to negotiate with?

  133. Just him, he is a partner and the other guy is 88 and doesn’t think of women as equals.

  134. Is your boss an all around clown, or is this salary thing the exception?

  135. I don’t know what you mean, but he is married and all these women are getting my work for free while I work two jobs.

  136. looking for integrity – Gov. Palin vetoed a bill designed to stop the state from providing domestic benefits for partners.

  137. I want to scream everytime he tells me to drop something and get an agreement or an order or a subpoena out for one of them.

  138. kim, don’t scream. work on your resume!

  139. Do you have a good working relationship with this attorney besides this one issue?

    Is this just a blind spot for him?

    If you two work well together, in general, then there is more hope to think your salary can be dealt with appropriately.

    If he is dismissive of you in general and treats you as dispensible, then it is a harder situation.

  140. Too bad she’s not a liberal, but she did show America that women (yes, even pretty ones) can hold their own with the big boyz. It will make it so much easier for the next woman, or women, who run for national office. For that alone, women all over America owe her, and all those who came before her, like Geraldine Ferraro, Shirley Chisholm and our beloved Hillary, a great debt of thanks.

    Well said madamab. It was a slap in the face to the gross mis-characterization by the media. It was important for all women that she came out strong despite the attempt to silence and destroy her. Just like HRC. Even if she is of a different ideology–it’s symbolic.

  141. stateofdisbelief, on October 3rd, 2008 at 12:31 pm Said:

    I went back about a week and the avatar for audacity is the same for the poster with decidedly PUMA views.

    Apparently on the “Cool Shoes” thread audacity got into a tussle with the producer of the caucus fraud video, Brad Mays, when he posted there. That may have started her rants.

    I don’t think so. Below is a comment I made yesterday with the time included. I was hurt and angry and still am.

    kenoshaMarge, on October 2nd, 2008 at 11:29 am Said: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    I am copying the entire comment by I am color blind so that there can be no doubt of who I am talking to:

    I’m color blind, on October 2nd, 2008 at 10:43 am Said:
    kenoshaMarge, on October 2nd, 2008 at 10:35 am Said:
    John McCain lost my vote last night when he voted aye.
    Now I will vote McKinney and get a twofer, a woman and an AA in one person. Now please don’t tell me she’s a homophobe because I’m running out of choices to vote for and I always vote. If I don’t, what right do I have to complain?
    ——————
    actually all the hip hop culture (see rosa clemente) is homophobic
    on a different note, your vote for green is a waste. may as well stay home. sounds like an obama troll.

    I have been commenting here @ the Confluence nearly from it’s inception. I have written long loud and often about my complete and absolute disdain for Obama and the Obamacrats.
    I find it unconscionable that you feel that somehow you have the right to call me an Obama Troll simply because I choose to cast my vote as I see fit. I believe that you owe me an abject apology.
    One of the things I most like about the Confluence is that name-calling is not allowed and that a person’s vote is respected as their right. I believe you crossed both of those lines in one comment.

  142. Kim, it occurs to me that your creep boss would NOT want you to tell his wife what he’s been up to? Any leverage there? Subtle hints so you can get paid fro all that time you’re force dto donate to his gf?

  143. Kim, the legal market is in the shit right now unless you do bankruptcy or foreclosure. Do you have a background in either of those-you could probably make a move quickly if you do.

  144. dakinikat, on October 3rd, 2008 at 12:53 pm Said:

    did mercury go retro or something? sheesh, the last few days have been weird

    YES! it’s in retrograde now until the 15th of October – I found it interesting that the debates were being held during that time and I can see from the comments (just catching up on them now) that Mercury, that trickster, is causing havoc in the threads, too.

  145. Why am I in moderation? It’s an astrology post. No bad words.

  146. I wonder how Biden is enjoying being spanked and/or patronized by Barky? ‘Cause you know that’s what’s happening right now.

  147. The more I see her, the more I like her.

    So genuine, no BS…..a real person.

    And a fast learner. .. five weeks into the process and getting stronger.

  148. stateofdisbelief, on October 3rd, 2008 at 1:44 pm Said:

    Kenoshamarge, I’m having trouble deciphering your comment as how it relates to mine, but in any event i agree — we all need to stick together here and support each other in this misery that is the election of 2008.

    What I was referring to was that the comments hadn’t just gotten nasty on the “Cool Shoes” thread but that I had been called an Obama troll the day before for simply suggesting that I would probably vote Green/McKinney. So the behavior didn’t just start today and it wasn’t just someone having a bad day. Seems to be a pattern but maybe that’s just me cause I’m still pi$$ed off over someone daring to call me an Obama Troll.

    Actually it’s kind of funny. I yawn now when someone called me a r@cist, I laugh when they call me a Republican, but I get so pi$$ed off over being called an Obama Troll I’m still in high dudgeon a day later. That tells me something, I guess.

  149. She DID change Democrats minds. I have two friends who were voting Dem…PERIOD. Not so fast, they said. Sarah isn’t who she has been portrayed to be! They told me that they were ashamed that they had spewed all of the talking points against Sarah without really looking into them. They may even “hold their noses” and vote Republican.

    That gives me hope.

  150. Shortly after Bush signed the Bailout bill, the administration announced a $6 billion weapons sale to Taiwan. This would automatically get a response from China which has vehemently opposed such deals in the past.

    I have a feeling that this is part of the reason for the bailout worked on by Paulson. To inoculate the U.S. economy from a potential economic assault by China who happens to hold most of the U.S. debt paper.

    This seems to be OT right now but I suspect that this will dominate the headlines in a few days and throw the attention of the country back into foreign relations and threats.

  151. I didn’t watch the debate and I know I’m late to the party but I just have to make two comments:

    1. Angelasmith: Best use of soylent green reference EVER! :)

    2. Biden can cry but Hillary can’t?

  152. A Heartbeat Away
    A Commentary By Susan Estrich
    Friday, October 03, 2008 Email to a FriendAdvertisementFor all the Republicans’ complaints about Gwen Ifill, the moderator’s questions were softballs compared to what Sarah Palin faced from Katie Couric. Ifill did not demand that Palin list (OK, how about just name more than one?) Supreme Court decisions. She did not push on the issue of foreign policy experience. She didn’t follow up on how it is that Americans who get dropped from the health insurance rolls are supposed to buy a $12,000-a-year health insurance policy for their families with a $5,000 tax credit, or why oil companies deserve more tax breaks, or what part of global warming is not manmade. She didn’t even ask the governor whether she really believed that humans and dinosaurs once lived side-by-side, which is my favorite Palin-ism.

    Ifill didn’t have to. Palin did not fall on her face. She did not embarrass herself. It was not the disaster some Republicans feared, with reason, after the Couric interviews. But she is running with a 72-year-old man who has a history of cancer and would only allow a handful of reporters to examine his medical records without making copies.

    This election is not about Palin and Joe Biden. Presidential elections are never about vice presidential candidates. If they were, Ed Muskie would have beaten Spiro Agnew, Lloyd Bentsen would have beaten Dan Quayle, and Dick Cheney would still be duck hunting.

    But the selection of a vice presidential candidate reflects on the person who made that decision. Questions about the qualifications of No. 2 give you one more reason not to vote for No. 1 if you were heading in that direction.

    And for the growing number of Americans who are heading in that direction, Palin’s thin resume and barely passing command of the material, her need to answer questions other than those posed by the moderator, and her “what have I been at this, five weeks?” air of inexperience in the league she now finds herself will amount to one more reason to not vote for John McCain.

    Going into the debate, 75 percent of all Americans had doubts about whether Palin is ready to be a heartbeat away from the toughest job in the world. My guess is, most of them still do.

    It’s not Palin’s fault. She was not selected on the merits. She was not the best qualified Republican to go up against Biden, any more than Clarence Thomas was the most qualified lawyer in America to serve on the Supreme Court. Mitt Romney would have done a much better job against Biden.

    But Palin was not picked because she could help McCain govern, let alone step in for him if needed. She was not picked to balance McCain’s foreign policy experience with the same kind of knowledge about the economy. That would have been Romney.

    Palin was picked to help McCain win.

    At least for a brief moment, Palin was the right answer politically. She was right because she invigorated the conservative base of the party, right because so many women were still smarting about Hillary, right because so many men could not resist the sexist attacks that turned her into a sympathetic street fighter, a much easier role for her than master debater. She was right for reasons having absolutely nothing to do with a collapsing economy and the failure of Republican ideology. She was right then, but she is not right anymore.

    I miss seeing Hillary up there. I miss seeing a woman who is the smartest person on the stage, the most experienced, the most articulate. I miss the feeling of sitting back and watching her hit the balls out of the park. Watching Palin makes me miss Hillary even more, not because the governor reminds me of the senator, but precisely because she does not.

    I have no doubt that Palin understands where “Joe Six-Pack” is coming from. But does she understand where the country needs to go? McCain needs a miracle. Palin is not that.

  153. “I may not answer the questions the way you want me to…” – Palin

    What Palin really meant – ” I can’t answer the question(s) because I don’t know anything except McCain sound bites, have to keep to my script, and the only issue I have a mediocre level of familiarity about is energy.”

    Wink, wink.

    -Palin

  154. [...] “it was her evening, she was the star” in VP debate against Biden (vid). More reaction: Oooooh, Sarah-cuda!… “Don’t look now, Democrats. But you’ve been hustled” … [...]

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