There are some small minded people out there who suffer from the Beautiful Mind syndrome that Murphy so eloquently described yesterday. The sad thing is that some people with a PhD after their name make the mistake of actually taking these fools seriously. This is what we saw happen yesterday. The amazing thing, however, is that for all the book learnin’ that these people have, they are blind to the outright hypocrisy of the claims that they make.
Let’s take the charge of racism. I will not even dignify these ludicrous charges with a defense. I will point out the cognitive dissonance and sheer stupidity of the people that go down that path. Take Mandos, who took issue with this blog, and effectively accused it of fomenting racism. I will try to be gentle with him, as he is young, and in my opinion not too bright (plus, swear words make him cranky). But it is typical of his peer group to only see issues of race through the lens of the black/white dichotomy. For these people there is a hierarchy of victimization, which in my opinion is in and of itself racist, but I’ll leave that for another post. They think that the remotest connection of a discussion to black/white race relations in this country can automatically be deconstructed (one of poor mandos’ most favoritest words!) to show that in their heart, whether they know it or not, the person discussing is indeed racist.
Mandos, sweetie, that’s a two way street, so you better be careful.
Mandos and the like gleefully pronounce people they’ve never met or talked to as racist, but give Obama a pass on his sexism, homophobia, and his own connections to the likes of the Rev. Wright, Meeks, and McClurkin. For Mandos, hate is only not a family value when it is directed at black people, and even then he misses the mark on when that is the case nearly 100% of the time.
Now I would never stoop so low as to accuse someone I’ve never met before as being racist, but part of Mandos’ response WAS a bit troubling. In his attempt to be snarky and make fun of our radio program, he linked to this picture:
Mandos, apparently a lot of Asians find this kind of stereotypical depiction offensive. Does that make you racist?
From its early years, Hollywood has had a predilection for certain Asian stereotypes. The image exemplified by Pat Morita in The Karate Kid can trace its origins to Charlie Chan, a character that spawned a whole series of films from the 1930s through the 1950s with a final appearance on television in the early 1970s. played by a variety of Caucasian actors, Charlie Chan was a blatant stereotype who spouted embarrassing aphorisms, popularizing the well-known “Confucius say” phrase, and perpetuated the accompanying physical image of a slightly bowing man with folded hands (Paik). The 1930s also created another influential character, Fu Manchu, a diabolical man who became the prototype for the Asian villain, which in recent years has had notable exposure in movies about organized crime like The Year of the Dragon and Black Rain, which deal respectively with the Chinese and Japanese mafia. (emphasis mine)
And then there is this:
A Salt Lake City-based car dealership on Friday yanked a
series of television commercials that used a character
representing Confucius, this after formal complaints from at
least two Asian-American groups.Ken Garff Automotive Group had been running the Asian-themed
commercials for its Honda cars. In the ads, a person would
ask a character representing Chinese philosopher Confucius a
question, and a voice in broken English would answer.The University of Utah’s Asian-American Student Association
and the Utah Organization of Chinese-Americans, an
international social justice organization, sent letters to
the dealership this week saying they found the commercials
offensive and perpetuating Asian stereotypes and wanted the
ads taken off the air.
As for if he is racist, I don’t make those kind of rash judgements about people, but the glass houses/stones advice….how about heeding it.
One final thought on this issue. You know who invented the “gotcha” strategy of parsing what a person says so that you can accuse them of just about anything? Republicans.
Smart people learn from all races and nationalities.
Each has something to contribute to the well being of all.
Judging someone that you do not know is plain dumb.
But not everyone in any race is a good person.
Judge people for who they are the good, and the bad.
Making excuses for bad behavior is just as condescending and insulting as racism.
This the first election cycle that I have been accused of racism because I want the best for my county and do not want someone unqualified . Both sides black and white are unqualifed. i will not vote for either.
COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS
PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE
excuse me
shuld read both sides of backtrack black and white are unqualified.
Oh crap, I was just about to go to lunch and gary had to put up this great post. “People in glass houses” is the perfect analogy. Mandos is an idiot.
I’ve got two words for you, GaryCH:
Hear, hear!
I commented on this elsewhere, but it remains a mystery to me why others on this site find Corrente worth reading. I looked at the website months ago, because it was on the blog roll, and was distinctly unimpressed.
As for charges of r*cism, if there’s one thing this election season has shown, it’s the desperate need of so many on the left to prove their Impeccable Liberal Credentials by hurling accusatory remarks at others on the left. It’s no wonder we have only the shreds of a political party remaining.
Bravo, gary!
Mr. Mandos writes racist articles stereotyping Chinese people .
Does Anglachel know?
LOL
Touche, gary. Frankly, the whole racism charge is becoming utterly meaningless. Just another conspiracy theory at this point – fabricated and propagated by those who see evil all around and now find it closing in on them. Perhaps everyone needs to examine their own demons and leave others out of it.
I think the whole r@cist meme tries to play on white guilt and I don’t have any, because I haven’t done anything to feel guilty about
Can I ask an off topic question that I need some help with?
Mandos and the like gleefully pronounce people they’ve never met or talked to as racist, but give Obama a pass on his sexism, homophobia, and his own connections to the likes of the Rev. Wright, Meeks, and McClurkin.
Isn’t it amazing? This guy is dripping with bigotry and hypocrisy and {{{crickets}}}. Someday we will look back on this period as a seminal psychological study of denial, delusion, and abuse.
“Mandos?” If the Oborg are the Valar, I’m rooting for Morgoth.
fif: Well put.
Gary – We have a couple of folks that need banning.
Mitch & audacity in the last thread.
Thanks so much…RD sent you an email about it…
I posted this comment in an earlier thread, but I need to repeat this here:
Gary, you are SO SO correct there. Part of my big issue with the perinnial O-bot racism cries are that they think of the country and the world as black vs. white. What’s a non-black, POC to do?
Even Obama in his Earth-Shatteringly Awesome Race Speech back in March talked endlessly about black vs. white, as if this were 1850 and not 2008. There’re more to race and racism here than just the type those guys know and practise. For e.g., there’re more Hispanics in this country (14%) vs. Blacks (12%).
And I’ve seen FAR far more casual, insidious racism and race-blindness from that side than from ANY PUMA or ANY Clinton supporter. Every. Single. Day.
Chevalier – Not to mention the r*cism of ignoring Obama’s weaknesses because of the color of his skin.
Great post, Gary, by the way!
Don’t you think we’d hear a lot less palaver from the likes of Mandos if he had to do his posts in poetry?
madamab, I’m on it, sorry I stepped out for lunch.
If having a Ph.D. after your name is supposed to make you “smarter” then everyone else, then please allow me to rebut these bloggers: I have two B.A.s, a J.D. and an LL.M. (yeah, look it up) after my name and the attacks on this site as fomenting r@cism have no basis in reality. They are the desperate ravings of lunatics who know they have backed a candidate who has not one redeeming quality other than “not being the other guy/gal in the contest.” In their vapid superiority to the “rest of us” they believe that we are too stupid to know when something is actually r@cist and when something is being used a club to guilt us into submission.
Furthermore, my mother has a Ph.D. in Mathematics (which is a much more difficult subject then political science) and she also thinks the charges of racism coming from the Obama camp are laughable.
Finally, and this is directed at all those ignorant people who think being a Republican makes you evil incarnate (Anglachel, I’m looking at you): My father, who has an M.E. after his name (that’s a Masters is Engineering — again, much more difficult degree then political science) and he is a Republican. He isn’t a right wingnut, nor is he overly religious (although he does give generously to charity) but he is a professional white male property owner and a former member of the US Navy — no one should be shocked that he is a Republican — that is his “group” — it would, in fact, be shocking if he wasn’t a Republican. My mom & I always tease him that he is such a die-hard Republican that he would vote for Mickey Mouse if he had an “R” after his name. However, my father proved us wrong in a controversial election for the LA governorship in the 80s. Some how David Duke was the Republican nominee that year — against Edwin Edwards, who was not only a Democrat but an embodiment of everything my father believes is wrong with the Democrat Party. My father, for the first and only time in his life voted for a Democrat that year. Why? Because regardless of the “R” behind Duke’s name my father could not vote for a man who associated himself with such a r@cist hate-filled group as the KKK. This decision was not a “struggle” for my father — despite a lifetime of voting Republican he had no qualms whatsoever to go to the voting booth year and vote against Duke and for Edwards. IMO, anyone who can vote for Obama — a man who sat in Wright’s church for 20 years and who took a pledge to uphold Black Liberation Theology — a theology that preaches separation of the r@ces — regardless of the letter behind his name is not even fit to tie the shoes of my Republican father.
JohninCA – LOL!
He’s also the one that attacked my post on, among other things, why liberals shouldn’t burn flags to prove their point. And, quite poorly, I might add.
Even the commenters at Corrente said so.
I’m so glad I never went to Corrente nor did I know who Mandos was until Anglachel wrote about him. Corrente was one of the few websites I never warmed up to even though Anglachel would always praise their bullsh*t. These people really disgust me. How dare they try to assume who I am or make unfair accusations at the thousands of people who visit this blog every single day. Most of us are lifelong Democrats, some are more liberal and dedicated to public service than any of these assholes though they vote third party, and there are a few Republicans here who have shown more respect for Hillary Clinton than any of the Obamabots have in the last year. I am so sick of this election but I’m glad that it happened because once I found out who these people really were, I unsubscribed from the DNC, MoveOn, Michael Moore’s email list, among many others. I’m glad that I won’t have to waste the few extra dollars I have on these jerks anymore. Thanks.
I think the whole r@cist meme tries to play on white guilt and I don’t have any, because I haven’t done anything to feel guilty about
the real kim has it exactly right.
RD was supposed to prove her nonracism by submitting racist comments she deleted to some unnamed blogger. So she works all day, then she’s supposed to go home and sift through thousands of comments, save any racist comments on disk somewhere and present them as proof of her innocence to some blogging tribunal like you would give your receipts to a tax auditor.
As Yogi Berra would say, that’s the most unheard of thing I ever heard of.
angie – Great, great comment. Thanks for sharing.
I think a lot of us recovering elitists are realizing that Republicans are, for the most part, perfectly nice people with whom we disagree on some issues.
Now if we could just get a lot of them to realize the same thing about us – imagine what we could do to help this country…:-)
Mandos writing reveals that he is in an academic environment, probably as a grad student or untenured professor.
The way his arguments are structured and the heavy use of professional jargon and insider references is used by second-rate academics to disguise the lack of substance and cogent reasoning.
Nobody in the real world writes that way, because they would starve.
I’ve seen his type before. They wander through academia, spending a year or two teaching undergrads at a cow college before they once again get handed walking papers. They can’t understand their chronic failure to get tenure, and blame it on something besides themselves.
“The department chair was just jealous and insecure because I am so much younger and smarter than him, so he screwed me over”
When they manage to get something published it goes mostly unnoticed or ignored, because their work isn’t worth the effort to critique. They tell themselves that their peers are unable to recognize true genius.
What they don’t ever seem to figure out is that true genius includes the ability to communicate revolutionary new ideas to less gifted minds.
Instead of trying to explain themselves better, they tell themselves that anyone who can’t understand them is unworthy of engaging in argumnent. When they do engage in argument (which is constantly) they use a strategy that is commonly called “baffle ‘em with bullshit”
When the other side quits arguing they are not conceding, they simply don’t want to waste any more time
So these unrecognized brilliant minds read Foucault and Derrida and memorize lots of useless junk they think will impress everyone with how smart they are and and how nuanced their thinking is.
They do make an impression on people, but it’s the wrong one. They walk out of interviews thinking the job is in the bag, and the hiring committee is tossing his resume in the garbage with “What a putz!” as the only interview notation
johninca, the irony, of course, is that if said “unnamed” blogger had asked for sexist, even vile, disgusting, depraved sexist comments….all I would have to do is let one of mitch’s get through, would that prove we are a sexist blog?…but that’s not as important to them, is it? hypocrites.
myiq – In other words, Mandos is a mini-Obama, without the success!
Very well-said, as usual.
GCH – Thanks so much for the cleanup. I have a feeling the panic is setting back in after Sarah’s boffo performance last night.
When one riots at the ballot box instead of in the streets, one is inherently more r@ci$t. At least that’s what the Obama supporters I know have told me. One is championing your cause and letting the world know that you’ve had enough, and the other is punishing everyone for four more years because you didn’t get your way.
myiq, you just described half of the people I went to grad school with. I realized I was sub genius, so I just slinked away with masters
The fact that someone has a Phd means nothing to me per se. It could mean he or she is really brilliant, or could just as well be another overeducated imbecile who should be mowing lawns for a living.
When they start using words like “deconstruct,” my advice is head for the bunkers if you know where any happen to be.
myiq2xu, on October 3rd, 2008 at 1:11 pm
LOL. Dayum myiq2xu. Sad and funny yet so true. They are all over academia. Intellectual folk who think they are the shit but are in fact total failures who could never survive in the real world. You find a lot of these people at top graduate schools, on the cable news networks, on the Huffington Post, and on the Cable News.
Jesus, this guy Mandos is a real piece of work.
Consider for example his claim that his opponents do the following:
Is Mandos so disordered that he doesn’t accept that we would be in a major economic crisis even if segments of the credit apparatus had been overleveraged? Is he so disordered that he doesn’t recognize that we wouldn’t be in an economic crisis if mortgage qualifications hadn’t been made far too lax — that there would be no real toxic mortgages to overleverage? Earth to Fool: if we hadn’t had hundreds of billions of dollars of bad mortgages — mortgages that were not covered with adequate collateral — then the housing bust would not have created our current crisis. What do you think most of the 700 Billion dollars is really intended to buy up in the end? Isn’t it obvious that the whole point of that money is to cover the losses at their starting point, the bad mortgages?
Really, the guy is a jerk and a fool to make such an incoherent and absurd argument . Talk about a partisan hack.
Look, Bill Clinton recognized that Democrats played a role in the current economic crisis. Does Mandos really think he would do so if there wasn’t real merit to those claims — especially since it was some of the legislation which he, Clinton, actually backed that he believes played a role? (Clinton does go on to say that he himself had recommended that further safeguards be put in place, but said Democrats in Congress wouldn’t back him up). If Clinton thought that the Democrats played no role, including himself, why wouldn’t he simply say so? Wouldn’t that be a vastly easier argument to make, and one far more palatable to him?
I meant above,
even if segments of the credit apparatus had not been overleveraged?
Haha. I said cable news twice. I guess I should have called out MSNBC and CNN individually
frankly0 –
You’re a r*cist!
Love,
Mandos
Yep. Panic. The tr0lls annoying but reassuring. Palin connects to a large segment of the voting population who the obots were hoping that if they couldn’t be brainwashed would just stay home on election day.
This Mandos idiot isn’t the same Mandos who has been trolling feminist blogs for as long as I can remember, playing WUABOUTDAMENZ? concern troll and making comments that amount to, “You left a dot off of the third i in your comment, so I need not take anything you said seriously at all.” Same guy? He’s a fucking tool.
gxm17, I always rejoice when the trolls start showing up in force. It is always an indicator that recent events have been bad for Obama.
angienc, I have some Republican family members as well (no crazy far-right frothing neo-con wingers, Thank God), so it really bothers me to hear the constant refrain of “All Republicans are irretrievably evil, and all their motivations selfish and horrible”. No, my sister is not evil, nor is she an uncaring selfish person. We simply disagree in many ways on the best means to accomplish good.
Kim, here I was talking to you on the last thread and you were up here. lol.
Just want to wish you luck with the job stuff.
If your boss is generally good to work with, then I’d give it a day (until your nerves are steady) and then try and talk to him about your concerns regarding your salary.
You don’t need to be confrontational about it if you are concerned about losing your job (either through your own action or his).
But good luck one way or the other!
thanks maddamab — I’ve been itching to get that off of my chest about my father ever since I first read you-know-who stating that she’d NEVER vote Republican as if it was the equivalent of committing patricide.
WMBC — your sister sounds like my father — he honestly does believe his philosophy of government is the best for all people in this country.
great post Gary.
angienc, re your comment at 1:01: Yes! Spot on!
the phd experience is more like a bad frat hazing than anything else, the only thing it really buys you is a shot at tenure position
just my viewpoint from my experience
Mandos is a bigot/r@cist towards Asian-Americans. Like that name calling Mandos? And he/she has a PhD. ? My, my. Is it because he couldn’t find a job in the real world with the rest of us schmucks and working class folks?
AngieNC: When that bastard of an election came about, remember the bumper stickers that were on cars? “Vote for the crook [Edwards]. It’s important.”
Good post, Gary.
Last night watching the debate I was struck by the fact that we have two parties, both of which practically fall over each other to denounce gay marriage. Instead they think it’s a big deal to offer us “hospital visitation” and the “ability to own property together” (which we already have, of course). Oh how very generous! They will allow me to visit my partner of 20 years in the hospital if she’s dying—just a like a real family? Oh Master! Biden I am so grateful! Let me kiss the hem of your garments. I am so undeserving of the gifts that you bestow on us!
Isn’t relying on the charity of straight people fun?
Of course today no one is talking about the acceptance of the bigotry that keeps us second class citizens. No one talks about how the party of civil rights recoils from supporting full rights for a certain segment of the population that might cost them votes–that certain icky segment who should be grateful for the crumbs Senator Obama’s party tosses our way.
But the charges of RACISM still fly at us from all quarters. I guess some animals on the farm are more equal than others.
maybe the yahoos at corrente should be more careful…they don’t want to get tarred as a racist website do they?
Very very good GCH!
In my own personal experience, grad school is the snooze button on the alarm clock of life.
(Passed quals at PhD level, chewed my leg off and got out with an MS, learned and forgot scarier and far more torturous mathematics in the process than just about anyone else I know. Met some incredubly stupid smart people as a consequence, enough that I see very little intellectual value in an advanced degree.)
looks like the bailout has passed
tax free wooden arrows for all!
Gary,
Mandos is a sad little man. He has a very high opinion of his own limited intellect. I did notice that Lambert disapproved of his post and smacked him down in the comments. It’s beyond stunning that Mandos linked to that picture. Again, he’s a sad little man.
When I encounter the “lofty minds” of some academics, and I take the time to translate whatever
spew they are tooting on the day, I find their
arguments to be specious, their thinking to be trite and worn, and their creativity to usually be zilch.
What happens when you approach one of these people and speak to them as equals and use common English as opposed to Oxford English Dictionary/ arcane speak– they get pissed off.
Their total ego is wrapped up in weaving the four-syllable words– and leaving content at the door.
Question them on the actual points they are making, and they just go blank.
Kind of like an Obot when you ask, “What has Obama ever accomplished?”
I don’t reckon that’s a coincidence.
Of all the awful things we have witnessed in this campaign, the worst is the way in which Obama, his campaign leaders and his supporters in the media and on the blogs, have wielded the “racism” sword against those who see things differently than they do. This sword is every bit as dangerous and tyrannical as the “communism” sword was in the ’50’s and ’60’s; as the “heretic” sword was for most of the last millennium. It is impossible to effectively defend oneself from; as no one can ever prove the negative: that he or she is not a racist, or a communist, or a heretic. It is intended to destroy one’s political or social enemies, to render them powerless, guilt-ridden, afraid. Those who wield the sword think they are doing god’s work, but they are actually practicing the worst kind of political and social evil, the kind they most ironically would decry if it were coming from another side, in another context, used against them.
The Left turns out to be every bit as fascistic, intolerant, self-righteous, as the Right. The Right says, “Why do you hate America?”, the Left says, “Can’t you see that you are a racist?” The latter may actually be worse, because it raises the horrible spectres of past bloodshed, dreadful events, in order to advance a partisan cause. It seeks to permanently marginalize and ostracize vast numbers of people from the political realm. It comes from stupid people who don’t understand anything about political debate, who see life as a computer game where the only goal is to win and to destroy one’s enemies.
People who do not like, trust or respect Barack Obama are not racists because of this. People who point out his lack of experience, lack of ethics, lack of consistency, are not racists. Those who point out that the Democratic Party has become so enamored of its own kind of patrician noblesse oblige, where its leaders bask in feeling virtuous in helping the urban poor at the expense of the middle class, are not racists. Explaining the truth that it was the Democrats in Congress who encouraged the mortgage giants to make a bunch of inane loans to inner-city people who had no chance in the universe of paying for them, is not racist. Saying that O.J. Simpson is a murderer is not racist. Not liking Cuba Gooding, Jr. as an actor is not racist. Barack Obama says that he wants to lead the country, all 300 million of us. He cannot lead it, because he allows his minions to paint tens of millions of people as racists because they do not support him. He stole the nomination by swinging the racism sword all around him, bringing down noble people in his wake. Just like calling everyone communists didn’t make this country any better or safer or more enlightened fifty years ago–quite the contrary, in fact–trying to shut down dissent and facts against your side by despicably tarring the people who express them as racists, will cause much more irreparable harm than the little good its fanatical purveyors think they are accomplishing.
cc AMEN to that. Biden admitted last night that Obama’s stance on gay marriage is THE SAME as McCain’s. and imo, the only one with record tospeak of on the issue is Palin herself…who vetoed a ban on same sex benefits.
Since we all know Mandos reads The Confluence, Gary dearest, please permit me to post this message en español:
Mandos, ya que dices que eres Latino igual que yo, y también de piel canela como yo, me das verguenza como Latina que soy.
Estas jugudo con las reputaciones de personas que han hecho el esfuerzo de crear una comunidad que apoya los derechos de los votantes y sobretodo, de igualdad y ecuanimidad entre los usuarios aquí.
Estas jugando con personas que son activistas políticos que en vez de atacar a travéz de un teclado, han salido públicamente para dar luz a la injusticia electoral que se ha cometido en las primarias y el la convención en Denver.
Estas también jugando con la reputación de Corrente ¿y te lo encuentras chistoso? Me alegra ver que utilizaste el nombre que te dí “crazed Obama-loon” porque eres exactamente eso. Un maldito loco.
OT but the Bill just passed in the House…
bostonboomer, well I hope that Lambert and Leah take notice. They’re nasty implications about us due to random comments is disgusting. Glass houses indeed!!!!
I guess in fairness, that last comment should be limited to Leah, lambert has only accused me personally of being racist…
Great thread! Thanks folks. btw– on the car dealership– notice that once they were alerted that their ad was offensive– they pulled it. We all learn through our mistakes and I bet that’s one they won’t make again. Now if they had kept running the ad, that is racist.
OT, but I am presently watching the Fox News reportage of the House celebration of the economic bill passage. Major Whip Clyburn of SC was listing all those folks whose collaboration on the bill he particularly appreciated. As the list grew longer, Pelosi was heard piping in from a few feet and several folks away – Barack Obama. Clyburn stopped his speech to chuckle and retort to give him time, he was getting to it.
Oh shit, now the Obama parade has begun in earnest, not by Clyburn (who simply added BO’s name at the end of his list), but by the next speaker Rob Manuel, and then the next fellow, whose name I didn’t catch. High praises to Obama, saying how they all received phone calls from him during the process, et cetera ad nauseam.
Even though I have advanced degrees from an ivy league school, I have to also admit that it is as Janis said, “the snooze button on the alarm clock of life”. Most of the kool kidz are from wealthy families who rack up the prestigious degrees to prove that they are better than you. I went because I was the first person in my family to attend college and I couldn’t pass up an ivy league degree. Yes, it’s also because academia is so much better than the real world and getting an actual job and I didn’t know what I wanted to do with my life after college.
Unfortunately the elitist kool kidz think that spending all of their 20s in school makes them smarter than the hoi polloi who actually have to work and deal with real world situations in order to survive and pay the bills.
Mandos seems to assume that if someone expresses the opinion that maybe some people got in over their heads and bought more house than they could afford, that is a reference to race. I don’t think so. Plenty of the people who are being foreclosed on are white, middle class, and make good money. They just committed too much of their income to a house and then took out second mortgages, etc.
God, I’m so sick of privileged white people (I’m making an assumption here about Mandos) lecture other privileged white people on race. It’s really getting old.
GCH – Well, that’s okay then.
Sheesh. What is wrong with these people?
FYI, I have a friend with two Masters’ Degrees, and a Ph.D. in Political Science. One of the smartest people I know, and a Democrat who was very strongly for Hillary.
He knows less about this election than I do, and was wrong about most major issues during the past eight years.
He thinks I should give Obama a break. We now have to stop talking about politics until after the election.
Just sayin’.
Fredster — do I remember the bumper sticker? HA! I still tell non-Lousianians about that bumper sticker to this day! Greatest.Bumpersticker.Ever.
Gary,
Leah is hopeless, as far as I can tell. I’ve never really read her stuff until recently though. I’m not sure what to think about Lambert. But I would be embarrassed to have someone like Mandos write for my blog (if I had one).
Pale Lion – I wonder if Hillary’s name was mentioned? Do you know?
I have to run out again. See you all in a few hours. Gary, you’re the greatest.
BB: Hey ya lady! He’s Latino, which makes it worse. I just wrote above how embarassed I am that he’s making us look bad.
Absolutely no mention of Hillary.
SOD: And in español – I wonder if he’ll understand that.
racism is what it is, do you hear many other races being discussed other than blacks or white, not
it’s a fraud these days
sm, yo lo entiendo! gracias por el mensaje!
stupid majoring in French…grumble grumble grumble…
Hillary needs to stop pushing obama (each day she does it she makes me like her less and less, despite my understanding that she is just doing her duty as a Democrat). Obama and his crowd will be bad for America . . . .why can’t Hillary see this? This is becoming a real problem for me. Anyone else feel the same way?
SOD I cannot express how much I agree with what you said here: “The saddest fact of all is that these accusations of r@cism will only be increased if he takes the keys to the White House. It’s frightening to think what he has done and will continue to do to hurt the cause of true r@cism in our country.
It will be a hate crime to criticize him very soon if we don’t stop the madness and stop his “rigged” ascension to the White House.”
madamab, I got my masters in spanish lit. talk about hitting the snooze button!!!
myshiba – Don’t worry, it will be over soon.
I hate it too, but I’m not holding it against her.
gary – Mine was in Voice! Oh well, at least I am making money from it.
Gary, Mandos is what I call “un sendo altanero, pedante, pero sobre todo, COBARDE comemierda.”
myshiba: The Clintons are in a tough spot. The Huffington Post is still publishing bullshit that their the Clintons will vote for McCain – even after everything they have done for the Chosen One. I’ve said this before but I’m not going to get on the bandwagon and blame the Clintons for supporting Obama. They can’t do anything else at the moment. I’m waiting for the Big Dog to talk about the racism after the election if Obama loses or when he leaves office.
don quijote is my hero
MadamaB: I told Mandos en español that he’s playing with people’s reputation’s, with people that have dedicated themselves and this blog to show the injustices of the election and not just through the keyboard, but took it to the streets and to Denver. I also said that he’s playing with Corrente’s reputation and that I’m happy that he used my term for him, “a crazed Obama-loon” because that’s exactly what he is, “un maldito loco” (a cursed lunatic).
Yup William, I will NEVER never NEVER vote for Obama, that racebaiting f*ck. This white girl was raised in detroit city in the 60’s and I know racism like I know my own hand. My hero Rod Serling once said racism was the root of all evil or something like that. For ObamaMon to use it like a club just burns my white ass. I despise him and his ignorant supporters.
Gary & Mawm are the Gay Don Quixote and Sancho Pansa.
Who the hell do you know would trek all the way to Denver in an RV full of PUMA decals to protest an election?
Love you guys!
Thanks, sm77! {{{blows kisses}}}
I love that “crazed Obama-loon” moniker. Perfect!
MadamaB: Apparently he liked it too!
what’s with these guys too that they fall on the fainting couch when they hear swear words (he was appalled that I told him to f#$k off when he was trolling the post that blasted back at him). If noone saw it before, this is the image of Mandos I have in my head. If you watch Futurama you’ll recognize the hedonismbot:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t62/kookamachanga/hedonismbot800-1.jpg
SOD, the whole thing???
These are the same tactics we have been subjected to from Obama, his campaign and supporters from the beginning.
We are in good company with the Clintons.
I must admit that this is a rather effective tactic though. They are trying to make cast a shadow on our group as a way to stop us from gaining momentum, to keep us from growing, to keep us from affecting real change in the party and politics.
Anglachel and Mandos are not the first to use this tactic on PUMA’s, they will not be the last. PUMA’s are a force to be reckoned with and many want to diminish us.
Just keep fighting, give the reasons why you’re a PUMA. Wear the PUMA badge proud. Take back the word PUMA, do not shy away from it.
We are protesting the fraudulent and sexist Democratic Primary Election of 2008.
Keep the Faith!
Sheri
I still haven’t figured out the purpose of Mandos’ and Anglachel’s posts about us.
I don’t recall anyone claiming that we got in this crisis because the banks were forced to loan money to poor non-white people.
And considering that we are almost all hard-core Clintonites we weren’t going to be blaming Bill for anything.
But in both cases it is unclear exaclty what were are accused of.
Mandos seemed to think that the guy Dakinkat referred to (Liebowitz?) is the economist for the Klan and has been discredited, but he doesn’t explain.
Republican and conservative bloggers are taking McCain to task along with all other republican bill supporters for passing the bill. Many state that they will vote against anyone who said “yea”. I check a few because usually they will post things like the copies of the bills etc. before any one else. Their feeiling is that ether were other solutions and Marcy Kaptur is mentioned many times as a positive.
For Obama this is a coup being handed him by the Pelosi Gang. he did none of the work, and it was Hillary and the Senate that made it happen. Yet she gets no credit nor anyone in the Senate Dem group (I say this although I am not happy with this bill). It’s a tool to solidify the dem vote by one of the perpetrating groups of this problem.
McCain may gain Dem and Independent votes, depending on the type of independent, but he will lose the republican base, unless they rally behind Palin, which many say they are.
Had he said “nay” he would definitely lose the election, since he needs to get as many indie and crossover votes as possible. Saying “yea” without a VP that’s a conservative change agent (she is), would lose part of the repug vote for him. In spite of repug opposition I think he made the right decision if it’s country first for him.
I had to work from home so I had CSPAN on and watched the debate in the House Rules Committe regarding the bill. Frank wanted to add pork and other provisions to it, Bacchus (I think-Repug) kept talking about removing pork like the rum, arrows, and tuna canning. Frank would just not let him speak. I could tell that all the repugs felt this was a disastrous bill for the taxpayer.
For instance, since the FDIC cannot back the raising of $$ in insured accounts from 100K to 250K (it would only be able to cover some 1.6 m accounts I believe I heard) it has the right to get what it wants from the treasury – tax payer funds. Provisions have been changed and are vague. The changes were not posted before the vote, though the repugs (yes, can you believe it) asked that they be posted so that taxpayers can read it.
In my office – investment research firm, most people earn between 35K and 60K. They all hate this bill, including the Obama supporters. The bill as it passed with all the additions is 850B now, but will probably cost more. It feels like a funeral here.
I feel like Hillary must have felt when she voted for the “war resolution” . I know it’s bad, but I don’t know what will happen if it’s not signed. Just like the arguments about there are WMD’s in Iraq vs. there are none, with evidence pro and con, could not make the vote any clearer or easier for congress then, its the same way now. No one wants to risk an implosion/explosion if they are wrong about the actual threat to the global economy, just like they didn’t want to risk being wrong about Saddam’s weapons arsenal.
myiq, I read a post by Leah several weeks ago that the confluence had better watch out because they were going to expose our racism. maybe this was a coordinated attack, and this was the best they could come up with….pretty lame…and if you’re going to accuse people of racsim, you shouldn’t include ethnic stereotypes in your post. it doesn’t look good.
I keep trying to work up a post on the lefty meme that Republicans are all genetically disposed to evil, but I don’t want anyone using it to say “See! I knew he was a GOP ratfucker!”
Drudge has the overnight numbers for the debate last night. It was the second highest rated debate, only behind the 1992 Clinton, Bush, Perot debate. It even did better than the 1984 vp debate between Geri and Bush. Numbers 1992 46.3%, last night 43.6% 1984 vp 45%. If they saw what I saw last night, we could see some changed numbers.
The reason the charge of racism is used so much is it it virtually impossible to prove you aren’t racist. In the minds of many of the Obots the only way to prove you aren’t racist is to support and vote for Obama.
As administrator of Capital Hill Forum I get the charge that the board is racist but as do what I can to see that racism doesn’t raise it’s ugly head on the board and that’s all I can do.
MountainSage
I don’t trust this man. I hope I’m not racebaiting by putting in the following.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r1ApR_-bHI
“White people are afraid.”
looking for integrity – I don’t think anyone is a big fan of this bill. Democrat, Republican – I think they’d all vote against it if they could.
The problem is, Bush is the president. He will certainly veto anything that doesn’t give a handout to the corporations. And the people who don’t want to do that don’t have enough power to make it happen.
It really sucks. But it’s becoming increasingly clear that the crisis is very, very real and starting to “trickle down” to Main Street. Something must be done.
Over at Noquarter they mentioned bumper stickers they’d like to see.
“Say it ain’t so, Joe”
“You get extra credit for voting McCain”
thought they were rather cute.
OT, Can a moderator please take a look at “audacity’s” comments on the Cool Shoes thread? He /she is attacking Brad for his documentary and Murphy for her tv appearance. They are at 11:13 and 11:25. Thanks.
Disenfranchised, the only thing I took away from grad school was a significantly delayed start to saving for retirement, which will bite me on the ass far harder than the Kool Kidz — I have no wealthy old relatives to bankroll MY 60s and 70s.
I have multiple degrees and I intend to push my (hopefully future) child into a trade that can’t be outsourced. Some of the people who took votech in my high school are millionaire plumbers and electricians and highly paid/skilled mechanics maked 6 figures at Mercedes and BMW and I’m still paying student debt and working at a job I hate. While I stressed about SATs, they learned a valuable trade and, when I was 17 and stupid, I thought they were idiots. I am the idiot. Higher education is highly overrated. I don’t care if you have alphabet soup after your name. If you paid in full for any of it, you probably wasted your money.
The bill passed. We are all fat cats now. Somebody ring for my limo. /snark
Micki, I agree — but it’s also important to remember that a lot of those lucrative bluer-collar jobs are simply not open to women or EXTRMELY HARD for women to get into. We’re supposed to marry men who make money as mechanics and work our little pink-collar ghetto jobs for half the money.
So Obama got all his House shills to praise his efforts in passing the “rescue bill”! Yippee! Where would we be without Obama. Oh yeah, without Obama, we would actually have a Democrat running for the Presidency, Hillary Clinton!
Thank you. This whole infantile Obamaphile on-off r@ce switch (black or white), and the idea that voting for an ass like BO somehow absolves you of racism, convinces of me one thing… That BO ultra-hip bloggerz have no clue what r@cism means, how it works, or what its consequences are.
Love and lipstick,
alice the Arab-American
Janis–this is so true. Most of the female “techies” were directed to dental hygenist and certified nursing assistance programs (my sister did this) and beauty technicians.
My husband (also over eduated) likes to tool around with cars and says all the time he wishes he was a mechanic.
I think its both wrong that a lot of students get steered out of trades and into college and that women get steered into those crappy tech programs. College is the new grad school. I got an english degree and I knew there was practically nothing I could do with it except apply to a grad program to figure out what to do with it. Its a racket.
If you want to engage Mandos in nuanced discussion, or just give him a piece of your mind and the contents of your spllen, here is his personal blog:
http://politblogo.typepad.com/politblogo/2008/10/de-front-paged-corrente-post-compounding-their-error-or-i-do-indeed-enjoy-shooting-fish-in-a-barrel.html
He is disappointed that lambert depaged his post becuase he worked very had on it.
BTW – I have no desire for a blog feud with Corrente, despite my issues with Lambert personally.
When I get really rude and offensive (as opposed to my usual rude and offensive) I don’t do it from here.
I am a guest here, and I respect RD and the rest of y’all too much to get you caught up in the exercise of my personal demons
FLVoter — yeah, and without Obama the Dem. nominee would have created HOLC instead of this bill.
myiq, I’m not sure we could survive your “personal demons”, becuase the ones you share publicly are scary enough…lol
My self-esteem is shattered by the discovery that angie, in addition to a 50,000 watt smile has far more impressive credentials than mine.
It may take me hours to recover.
Actually, unlike Tucker Carlson, I don’t feel my manhood is threatened by strong, intelligent women.
Except, of course, for those stong intelligent women that have actually threatened my manhood.
Hopefully they aren’t still mad a me.
myiq2xu, on October 3rd, 2008 at 1:11 pm Said:
“The department chair was just jealous and insecure because I am so much younger and smarter than him, so he screwed me over”
When they manage to get something published it goes mostly unnoticed or ignored, because their work isn’t worth the effort to critique. They tell themselves that their peers are unable to recognize true genius.
—————
Holy Hannah, myiq, you’ve just summed up it up brilliantly. That whole post, poetry. I see ‘em every day. They’re too brilliant to be recognized, LOL. And they treat everyone like crap because they think they’re exceptional. But they’re not! And even if they were (and may I repeat, they’re NOT!), you don’t get anywhere in academe that way.
Man, you got it, right down to the Foucault. I hate it when they memorize Foucault. Seriously.
Gary:
Imagine my dismay when after years of exercising my demons I learned that I should have been exorcising them instead.
TheRealKim, on October 3rd, 2008 at 12:38 pm Said:
I think the whole r@cist meme tries to play on white guilt and I don’t have any, because I haven’t done anything to feel guilty about
____________________________________________
I agree completely.
Enjoy this!
“Foucault” sounds like a curse word in another language.
Next time somebody cuts me off on the road, I’m screaming, “Foucault! And yo mama too!”
alice:
One of the first of these types that I met back in college started quoting Foucault like it meant something.
I was wondering who the hell Foucault was, so I looked him up.
Ever since then, I have considered Foucault to be the patron saint of educated idots.
Hillary!
Regency: Get Hillary AWAY from Obama, STAT!
She’s getting the “Uh” cooties!
Hello, not crying or screaming anymore
Re my picture: my point was that “Conflucians Say” is a clear play on “Confucius Say” jokes, and I illustrated that with a link. Personally, I think it’s pretty clear what I meant.
Hillary always had “Uh” cooties, she just hides it better. In print, it always looks bad, but she’s always had it. I noticed it back in the day. She makes up for “uh” by saying something useful.
Doesn’t mean I’ll hesitate to whisk her away though.
Mandos:
If you can find meanings in our posts that we clearly did not intend to convey, jwe can do the same with yours.
I’m not Latino, but I am pretty brown, if you must inquire into my racial background. South Asian. I can vaguely decipher Spanish because I read French proficiently.
Hi Mandos! I see you are just as clueless as ever.
Mandos: Por favor, ten un poco de dignidad y vete.
Eres un soberano comemierda y caíste en la misma trampa que tu mismo tendiste.
Why is the color of your skin relvant?
Or the color of mine ofr that matter?
If you can find meanings in our posts that we clearly did not intend to convey, jwe can do the same with yours.
See, it’s not my fault that the implications of what you say have the results that I’m pointing out. I am not just picking out random associations here—I am dealing specifically with the acceptance of the Liebowitz article as an authority. That actually, like, means something. It has implications. I have pointed them out.
Janis: Yes, that’s me. Hi!
Is this what Obama, ACORN, Barney and the rest of them had in mind:
(CNN) — A 90-year-old Akron, Ohio, woman who shot herself as sheriff’s deputies tried to evict her from her foreclosed home became a symbol of the nation’s home mortgage crisis Friday.
Fannie Mae foreclosed on the Akron, Ohio, home of Addie Polk, 90, after acquiring the mortgage in 2007.
Addie Polk is being treated at Akron General Medical Center after shooting herself at least twice in the upper body Wednesday afternoon, her city councilman said.
U.S. Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, mentioned Polk on the House floor Friday during debate over the latest economic rescue proposal.
“This bill does nothing for the Addie Polks of the world,” Kucinich said after telling her story. “This bill fails to address the fact that millions of homeowners are facing foreclosure, are facing the loss of their home. This bill will take care of Wall Street, and the market may go up for a few days, but democracy is going downhill.”
Neighbor Robert Dillon used a ladder to enter a second-story window of Polk’s home after he and the deputies heard bangs inside, Dillon told CNN affiliate WEWS-TV in Cleveland, Ohio.
“I just thought she may have fell or couldn’t get up or something,” he told WEWS. “I didn’t know [she had shot herself] until I got in there. And even when I got there, she was breathing, but she wasn’t saying anything to me. I knew she needed help then.”
Dillon said he saw blood when he put his hand on Polk’s shoulder.
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“There’s a lot of people like Miss Polk right now. That’s the sad thing about it,” said Akron City Council President Marco Sommerville, who had met Polk before and rushed to the scene when contacted by police. “They might not be as old as her, some could be as old as her. This is just a major problem.”
In 2004, Polk took out a 30-year, 6.375 percent mortgage for $45,620 with a Countrywide Home Loan office in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio. The same day, she also took out an $11,380 line of credit.
Over the next couple of years Polk missed payments on the 101-year-old home and in 2007 Fannie Mae assumed the mortgage and later filed for foreclosure.
Deputies had tried to serve Polk’s eviction notice more than 30 times before Wednesday’s incident, Sommerville said. She never came to the door, but the notes the deputies left would always disappear, so they knew she was inside and ambulatory, he said.
The city is creating programs to help people keep their homes, Sommerville said.
“But what do you do when there’s just so many people out there and the economy is in the shape that it’s in?”
Many businesses and individuals have called since Wednesday offering to help Polk, Sommerville said.
“We’re going to do an evaluation to see what’s best for her,” he said. “If she’s strong enough and can go home, I think we should work with her to where she goes back home. If not, we need to find another place for her to live where she won’t have to worry about this ever again.”
He said that by the time people call for help with an impending foreclosure, it’s usually too late.
“I’m glad it’s not too late for Miss Polk, because she could have taken her life,” Sommerville said. “Miss Polk will probably end up on her feet. But I’m not sure if anybody else will.”
CAROL HAKA
I guess some of you don’t know any auto techs (mechanics). They actually have to go to school. And in order to keep their licenses up to date they must take exams on a regular basis. At least in Virginia. And the tuition to good auto tech schools is astronomical.
And, yes, Micki, you’re right, their trade can’t be outsourced. You wouldn’t believe how many professionals try to barter their services for my son’s.
Let’s keep it clean, no low blows and only use moderate profanity.
SOD: His is terminal. Hillary’s is bacterial. It’ll clear up with enough doses of Vitamin Bill.
Why is the color of your skin relvant?
Or the color of mine ofr that matter?
Someone brought it up, and addressed me in a language that is not my native language and in which I’m not really proficient as such.
gxm17–I know. My husband looked into it and we simply could not take on the additional debt to send him to school to get certified.
Regency: Mmmmm, vitamin Bill.
SOD: Weeeeeenis. Tis wee.
Mad: I know, sounds yummy, huh. Comes in a juice box and everything.
sm77,
I am still laughing. My housemate who’s from Venezuela came home in time to translate your
3:28 for me.
I have no clue who Liebowitz is or why I shouldcare, I first became aware that he even existed when I read your post.
Please explain why it means something, and what it means.
SOD: I’m already there. My friend, you’re late!
Mandos: Being an equally brown person (but not equally vacuous) as yourself, I find you calling my blog family as “r*cists” extremely offensive, especially when you fell in the very r*cist trap you tried to lay for us here.
If you have an inch of dignity, go away.
“sm77, on October 3rd, 2008 at 3:28 pm Said:
Mandos: Por favor, ten un poco de dignidad y vete.
Eres un soberano comemierda y caíste en la misma trampa que tu mismo tendiste.”
I concur.
“See, it’s not my fault that the implications of what you say have the results that I’m pointing out. I am not just picking out random associations here—”
Good lord, that Mandos clown writes as bad as Obama. I…can’t….get…..through….it.
Mandos – You think we should bear responsibilty for your ridiculous misinterpretation of dakinikat’s post?
No wonder you’re an Obamabot.
BTW, as for my “crazed Obama-loonery”, well, let’s say that while like many I do prefer him over McCain, I don’t think he was a better choice than Hillary Clinton. I don’t fault anyone for being unimpressed, though. It’s the collateral damage that bothers me.
However, why is this all about me? I never refered to myself, and I have no idea who, eg, riverdaughter and dakinikat are in real life. I only know what they said, who they quoted, and what I believe the consequences are.
Please allow Mandos the opportunity to explaim himself.
Angela, I just found out that Mandos isn’t a Brown Latino, he’s a brown something else.
Damn I went all “Brown pride” in my first post in Spanish, and how it shamed me to see a fellow Latino blogger do such a despicable act. “Crazed Obama-Loon” indeed.
Mandos – You think we should bear responsibilty for your ridiculous misinterpretation of dakinikat’s post?
I merely looked at and read what the UTD prof wrote, and found a very familiar ideology embedded in it, with very familiar consequences, the objections to which I explained in my first post. And I also read dakinikat twice praising it as her primary source.
What is your objection to Liebowitz?
2nd request
TheRealKim, on October 3rd, 2008 at 12:38 pm Said:
I think the whole r@cist meme tries to play on white guilt and I don’t have any, because I haven’t done anything to feel guilty about
No, the whole r@cist meme plays on something much more powerful than supposed “white guilt”, which is just an obnoxious term conservatives created to deride liberals who cared about racism, it plays on “white vanity”. Specifically, the vanity of a lot of Obama’s white supporters who think that voting for him says something wonderful and special about them because, despite their protestations otherwise, it’s all about them.
I mean, there’s not much to explain. Yes, myiq is quite right in saying you can twist anything into anything. But I don’t believe I did, and I don’t believe a serious case has been made that I did. I’d welcome that discussion.
But if you don’t agree, we’ll have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Yes, I enjoy the snark hammer a little too much. I admit it. But people with reasonable objections got deleted here who did not use the snark hammer. So why shouldn’t I?
Almost every argument against me has been brought up with defensive reference to my personal attributes, whatever they may be. I never brought them up. If I respond to them, it is because I am happy to satisfy your curiosity in some particulars.
Mandos:
I am a lawyer. When we allege something, we are expected to provide evidence to support that allegation.
If we are suing a defendant, we are supposed to make specific allegations as to what we think they did and why it was wrong.
“Man, you got it, right down to the Foucault. I hate it when they memorize Foucault. Seriously.”
HAHAHAHAHA…Do you remember post-modern lit crit? How about ‘reader response theory’? Oh God the agony.
Read my posts. In a nutshell, even if we assume that Liebowitz’s numbers are all correct, you still have to accept his ideological assumptions in order to agree that his data allows him to lay the blame where it does.
His ideological assumptions are inserted via a certain amount of familiar slight-of-hand. They’re standard glibertarian cant. Need I explain what that is?
I believe that the predictable and observed consequence of that form of libertarianism is a preservation of racially-biased economic hierarchies.
So that is my objection to Liebowitz.
Conflucians!
Please note that Mandos is ignoring my simple and direct questions
If you think that I have at this point not made a specific allegation nor provided evidence (in the form of many links in my first subprime post), then I cannot say anything more. Again, please read the first post.
“Re my picture: my point was that “Conflucians Say” is a clear play on “Confucius Say” jokes, and I illustrated that with a link. Personally, I think it’s pretty clear what I meant.”
Your intent doesn’t matter, surely. It’s the reasonable interpretation of the image and the fact that you don’t have the right to appropriate offensive imagery in a suposedly hip, ironic way, right?
Thanks, Gary. Truly awesome post. And slightly OT, today not only did I get my Kay Hagan bumper sticker, but I got an email from Hillary asking me to support Kay Hagan. Wait… isn’t Obama supposed to be doing that?
I recently said on another board that I don’t trust Obama. The response? That in my case, “trust” was a “code word”. Okay, wtf? Anyone who doesn’t trust Obama is racist? How about his associations with convicted felons, domestic terrorists and hate-spewing clergy? Isn’t that a good enough reason?
Of all the awful things we have witnessed in this campaign, the worst is the way in which Obama, his campaign leaders and his supporters in the media and on the blogs, have wielded the “racism” sword against those who see things differently than they do. This sword is every bit as dangerous and tyrannical as the “communism” sword was in the ’50’s and ’60’s; as the “heretic” sword was for most of the last millennium
William – I made a similar observation on that same board when talking about Obama’s “truth squads” in Missouri. I asked what was next, the House Unobama Activities Committee? Of course, that time I was hysterical and racist.
My mom, Republican with a JD and huge Hillary supporter, said to me after the Democratic Convention, “Now you know how it felt to be a Goldwater Republican.” I understand what she means, and it kind of worries me a bit. I wonder if we will ever be able to wrest the Democratic party back from the self-interested power grabbers who have taken it over?
PLEASE DO NOT DELETE MANDOS COMMENTS!
i WANT THEM SAVED FOR POSTERITY
Seriously: This is a fair argument. By illustrating the point with the image, I may have been guilty of what I was accusing The Confluence of doing. At the time, I thought it was more effective if I did it graphically. This may have been a mistake.
Please note that Mandos is ignoring my simple and direct questions
I answered your simple and direct questions. What do you want me to say?
Are you going to ask me whether I’ve stopped drinking and driving, or eating live puppies or something?
What is “glibertarian cant?”
I have no clue
Please. I said r&cist. Release me from moderation, please.
Let me get this straight, this whole brouhaha is that someone doesn’t like Liebowitz’s theories or research, said research was used in a post and ergo, we are all bad humans?
Is that it?
I will repeat my objection to Liebowitz. This is my objection.
It is an objection. It is not a simple objection, perhaps. It does not compress to one line. But it is an objection.
So yes, I hope this is preserved for posterity, because I have answered myiq’s question, repeatedly, and this is what TV shows call “badgering the witness” or something.
Charges of racism cannot be debated because racism is an unconscious response, like all prejudices. If one says “A great number of Hispanics in this country are illegals”, that statement is factual and to attach racism to it is obfuscation. I think that when the Obama people charge racism because one does not vote the Obama ticket or one attacks the candidate on his lack of experience, or with other factual statement it’s just obfuscation and one should say so. Btw, I’m Hispanic.
Sorry for the repeat when it gets out of moderation:
myiq–maybe I am being slow again (its a habit of mine). And I do not pretend to be an economist. But I’m reading this Liebowitz article and I think the underlying theme is that relaxed underwriting standards combined with stalled housing price increases caused a mortgage meltdown. Is it racist b/c it criticizes the fact that underwriting standards were relaxed and should not have been? There is a commentator on Fox News from Temple (he is African American–I think his name is Hill, not sure), who agrees with that premise to a point and says that the focus should have been better alternatives in public housing rather than risky loans. Am I a r@cist for pointing this out? I can’t tell anymore. Everything that comes out of my mouth is apparently r@cist or overly sensitive hysterical response to perceived sexism. Sigh.
Prolix – No, it’s that we are all r*cists because Mandos appears to believe Liebowitz is a glibertarian.
Please try to keep your ludicrous and substanceless accusations straight. I know it’s difficult, since they are composed of nothing but hot air and all tend to sound the same, but do give it the old Ph.D. try.
Thanks ever so.
mmm.. actually I think it’s called “badgering the witless.”
Sorry for the repeat when it gets out of moderation. Moderator, please delete two prior duplicate posts (Sorry):
myiq–maybe I am being slow again (its a habit of mine). And I do not pretend to be an economist. But I’m reading this Liebowitz article and I think the underlying theme is that relaxed underwriting standards combined with stalled housing price increases caused a mortgage meltdown. Is it r@cist b/c it criticizes the fact that underwriting standards were relaxed and should not have been? There is a commentator on Fox News from Temple (he is African American–I think his name is Hill, not sure), who agrees with that premise to a point and says that the focus should have been better alternatives in public housing rather than risky loans. Am I a r@cist for pointing this out? I can’t tell anymore. Everything that comes out of my mouth is apparently r@cist or overly sensitive hysterical response to perceived sexism. Sigh.
Okay, I give you your objection, in fact, I celebrate your ability to make such an objection. Hear me on this, I give that to you, but to make the logical or better put, illogical leap to impugn the thousands of people who read or post here is sure lunacy.
What is “glibertarian cant?”
I have no clue
It means a fairly complex set of ideological principles, but in this case, it means the belief that government intervention in the free-market economy to correct perceived injustices along lines of race or class or gender should not be performed for moral and practical reasons, and that if said injustices were not “natural”, the free market would wipe them away.
It is often driven home with veiled accusations about PC librul elites, something in which Liebowitz indulges himself in the article.
Mandos:
I have a BA in history wth a minor in poli-sci as well as a Juris Doctorate.
I honestly have no idea what you are asserting, other than you see Liebowitz as doing something bad and then you transfer his sins to us.
Apologies, but a line like:
“It is an objection. It is not a simple objection, perhaps. It does not compress to one line. But it is an objection.”
…pretty much screams VERBOSITY. Something I’ve discovered when I read the original post. If you can’t make concise rebuttals, or original posts, leave the web. Web-pollution kills.
Ugh. There is nothing worse than someone who likes to hear him/herself talk (write).
K.I.S.S.
destardi, I’m just wondering if we’ve found the ghost writer for “Dreams of My Father.”
So I am right. I guess I’m just not reading carefully enough. My r@cist eyes are lying. . .
destardi – Well-said.
The problem is (to me) a very strange lack of consciousness about what Liebowitz is doing (in providing his interpretation of our predicament), and an apparent eagerness to accept that class of interpretations as being the “real” story behind the bailout/meltdown.
Unfortunately, I really have to go now. Maybe this is all just because we’re speaking different languages, and think we’re speaking the same language, and is just a big failure to communicate.
Plus, admittedly, my compulsiveness.
Mandos: haven’t read all of the comments. But, please describe in detail what you see as the phenomenon of 95% of the Black Population voting for Obama. I would like to know what that term is.
Micki – They tend to do that! My eyes are brown. Does that mean they are exempt from being r*cist?
angelasmith – LOL!!!
destardi, as my screen name implies, I’m a recovering offender. Please if I fall of the wagon, kick the horses and cry “giddy-up.”
Mandos – Calling an entire group of people r*cists because of something you think might be going on in some source material someone used in an economic post, is absolutely ludicrous.
There is no failure of communication in your case. It’s a failure of judgment on your own part.
If you can’t see that, you need help.
Mandos, just a thought here — wouldn’t it be more prudent and logical to point your comments toward Liebowitz in any medium you prefer than to label the thousands of us who don’t give a fig newton about Liebowitz or the horse he rode in on?
madamab–mine are green. Perhaps I should gouge them out?
maybe we lack conciousness because you don’t explain yourself.
Pretend you are teaching a class of freshman in an intro class.
Assume we are ignorant on the topic but not stupid or illiterate
MANDOS:
“I believe that the predictable and observed consequence of that form of libertarianism is a preservation of racially-biased economic hierarchies.
So that is my objection to Liebowitz.”
So it’s your beliefs?
What a completely weak argument. Where do the facts enter in when you call people racists?
Micki – Nah. Contact lenses. Works like a charm.
Glibertarian is something of a put down for a libertarian. imo like feminazi. I’m still trying to figure out how libertarian is synonymous with racist. But I just logged on to this part of the “discussion” …
Know what this little Mandos-in-a-teapot chapter tells us? We’re real and we’re a force to be reckoned with.
myiq – You are making me laugh!
Whatever problems he had with Liebowitz, his jump to label the entire Conflucian community r*cist can neither be explained nor excused.
Well, Mandos brings new meaning to “sub-prime”..
I hope you guys finish with him soon and move on to something more interesting.
angelasmith, on October 3rd, 2008 at 4:18 pm Said:
————————————————–
Amen.
I hesitate to say “breaking” but this is hilarious.
In Indiana, ACORN has registered at least one dead person for voting:
http://www.nwi.com/articles/2008/10/02/news/lake_county/doc5399904569d23a75862574d600010e55.txt
Can someone get me out of moderation, please?
Mandos
Redlining is a bad practice and can be eliminated by auditing rejected loans and looking for folks rejected for loans based on race.
Also, analyzing loans and looking for patterns that show that folks were pushed into the subprime market that shouldn’t have been based on something other than credit worthiness or ability to pay can also be done.
Penalizing the $hit out of these FIs for doing so, would stop a lot of those practices. That is a really succinct way of getting rid of discrimination in lending.
Extending loans to folks that cannot pay them and then guaranteeing them with taxpayer money isn’t getting rid of discrimination in lending, it’s contributing to a financial crisis.
god, I leave to run errands and someone leaves the barn door open. Ihave nothing new to say so, once again,
Fuck off Mandos.
also, I blamed Barney Frank for some of that too … does this make me a GLBT hater? If so, then I’ll really take issue with you, since you can count me into one of those categories …
Dakinikat – You are a r*cist!
Love,
Mandos
and I mentioned Jim Johnson … he’s white … So I’m a reverse-r@cist too madamab!
God, that was painful. I agree with SOD. Why should we engage him in why he called us rac.ists?? If he had an issue with the author then he should have come and expressed his view about the author and our decision to rely on the work of said author. Then we would have been able to have a discussion. Now, it seems like we are trying to convince him of something. I know that we are not ra”ists, I don’t need him to agree with me.
Kat – whatever. It was Myiq’s decision to not delete or edit Mandos’ idiocies, and I respected that, but in my mind, there was no reason to give him even the smallest benefit of the doubt.
Accusations of r*cism are unforgivable.
When I saw Mandos explanation re: Liebowitz my first reaction was admiration.
I can throw down some bullshit put that was a work of art.
Then I thought “Shit, someone will delete him and we’ll lose it forever”
I want to enter that comment into a bad writing contest.
College Freshman should see it in their English 1A textbooks as an example of what not to do.
He could have written it in Eqyptian hieroglyphics and the meaning would be no less comprehensible.
I really wasn’t going to play in his sandbox today but THEN he just had to come over here …
and I agree with you, stateofdisbelief …
madamab: I think we should just let the comments stand.. it does say something that he came over here to argue that if we’re not racists then we’re ignorantly enabling racism …
madamab – I agree, as bitter as it is, it needed to be done.
VOTER FRAUD,
I ran across this which really blew my mind. Norfolk has changed its voting registration regulations at Obama’s request. Many students plan to vote twice, as they feel they have the right to. check out the student comments below the comments about guns.
hamptonroads.com/2008/09/norfolk-officials-ease-rules-registering-student-voters
I realized something today from reading the Confluence comments. With Warren Buffett and George Soros in the tank for Obama, the election is 1) bought and paid for, and 2) the start of a new kind of totalitarianism we might best label capitarianism. It isn’t fascism for sure, and it is not Marxism for sure. Capitarianism relies on private capital remaining private (see bailout, um, rescue) and control of the population through debt. At first I could not figure out why it needed to be opposed to GLBT and women, and had to appeal to evangelicals. I thought perhaps it was just prejudice, but now I get it. Capitarianism relies on institutional norms. If some states have gay marriage, for example, marriage rights could be challenged under the full faith and credit clause of the constitution to get parity among the states. Civil Union, as a different entity, can’t (unless all states adopt civil union). If you need a nation of debtors, you control things like access to marriage because it stabilizes income and debt ratios. You court evangelicals on the theory that they will be anti-divorce and thus women become stuck. Women are the consumers, but if in debt are less likely to leave and destabilize the home. I haven’t worked out all the premises of totalitarian capitarianism yet, but I will figure it out. Help is welcome.
I was busy deleting when I saw your call to save them Myiq, so they will remain. I notice that he didn’t even address me (typical)…or the questionable taste of his graphic. oh well, I wasn’t expecting a debate. he’s a total buffoon. he’s banned now though. enough is enough of his god awful rhetoric. It makes me feel like I took 12 xanax….
Mandos, anyone who publishes that cartoon shouldn’t be moaning about a strange lack of consciousness.
Look in the mirror. If someone as racialy enlightened as you could make such a huge mistake and then not feel the need to apologize, take responsibility, or confront his own demons, then maybe you’ll understand why it’s hard for people to accept that they’re racists based on an interpretation of source materials from some economist they’ve never heard of.
What you did is a lot less debatable–and you don’t seem to be at all bothered about it.
Kathy – Have you read “The Shock Doctrine,” by Naomi Klein?
http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine
Seems like it might be along the lines of what you’re talking about.
Myiq – I could barely keep a straight face. Mandos is another educated, pretentious idiot, just like Obama.
myiq, you better copy his comments down quick, I’m itchin’ to do some editorializin’
Is a glibertarian the same thing as a libertarian or is that just a typo? I can poke holes in the logical foundations of Marx, Engels, Kant, Aristotle and Plato to name a few. But the reality is that even when such folks are wrong sometimes they provide scaffolding that is useful and accurate. I think this is the core of the most liberal left–(and the most conservative right) they are just too intellectually intolerant. They love to pick and find fault and explode over correctness. They can not accept that people who have a different philosophical lense may be wrong but partly right. That is the political correctness that made communism, fascism, socialism, catholocism, puritanism and any number of isms failures in execution. It is why we have our constitution, our bill of rights and our USA version of democracy. It accepts fundamentally that there is no ONE right way. In the unfettered search for truth an answer may be found.
I had lunch with some colleagues today – one of whom manages a financial fund. He asked me what I thought of the bailout – I told him and he then said “I think it’s economic terrorism – selling it all piecemeal to China was taking too long – we’ve been sold out by our own government.”:(
Gotta get going – later everyone! Don’t let the bastards get you down!
I like educated peeps, but they must at the very least have a sprinkling of good common sense!
I apologize, but I feel strongly that throwing the R word is becoming de rigueur. That is one of the most dangerous byproducts of this election cycle IMO. And, more importantly, if someone got away with it against a haven for tolerance, acceptance, intelligence and community, it would have been a “wish I had done something” moment. Sorry if I derailed the thread.
Gary, I object to the statement about Republicans. Other than that, a fine post. As a Republican living in the People’s Republic of Santa Cruz, California, I’ve been called just about every name in the book. I would not dare to put a bumper sticker for a Republican candidate on my car–it would be vandalized the first time I parked it anywhere. I’ve had yard signs stolen out of my yard seven or eight times. The hatred directed at Republicans for merely holding a perfectly legitimate political point of view is astounding. If you believe that affirmative action is blatant racism, as I do, you are a racist. If you do not accept the premise that as a white male you are responsible for slavery (which ended 143 years ago) you are a racist. If you do not believe in government wealth redistribution, you are a racist. Et cetera.
You were doing fine on the issue of stereotypes until you accused Republicans of inventing the “gotcha” strategy of parsing sentences to accuse someone of just about anything. That statement has no basis in fact or evidenciary support. The technique has been around far longer than the Republican party, and Republican politicians certainly do not have a monopoly on misleading statements. Witness the number of lies that came out of Biden’s mouth last night, for example.
gary, I got a comment thrown into moderation because I forgot to @ it …. can you help!?
OK – maybe I’m off topic but I’m staring to feel the doom and gloom. The party I felt so close to, that I thought a a moral backbone (except for the Chicago machine) that I thought rightfully railed against voter fraud in the past two elections, where has that party gone?
Can it really be that it has become so corrupt that it not only believes, but lives all of the immorla methods it so criticized before and not only does it practice them but does it better than its opponent?
Are we really letting our children learn that any means justify’s the end they want even if it is reprehensible and illegal, such as voting twice?
If so, how can we remain the “beacon” to the world – the one called up to intervene in unjust conflicts, to oversee banana republic elections, to protect freedom and human rights for all when we lessen ours here little by little and openly violate laws at the beck and call of one man?
This whole election has been toxic. Its making us all sick.
I’m glad its the weekend. Hopefully the Dodgers will polish off the Cubbies this weekend and the Phillies will have home field advantage and I’ll be at the game Thursday night.
Gosh, my comment on this r-word thread landed me in moderation! Alas…
Is there something wrong with me?
Why am I seriously worried about this?
Madamab, I read the link. It is along those lines, yes, except that for some reason this had to done by liberals in opposition to neo-cons. I am not sure I have figured that out yet.
I read on an earlier thread that some people thought Cynthia McKinney went insane. I suppose this is b/c she said 5000 people were shot in NO after Katrina by the gov’t. You know, I don’t believe the US gave Africans AIDS or any of that, and I am not a conspiracy theorist by nature, but what if…
We do see Obama taking on the trappings of a dictator, with his Youth, his seal, his stage at Denver, his Truth Squad, his FFV tour. But we equally saw what Bush/Cheney were capable of, keeping immigrants in prison, getting rid of habeas corpus in the military commissions act, secret trials! Secret trials! So while I am not saying McKinney is right on her assertion, it shouldn’t sound completely insane to us. It must have sounded insane to Jews who heard Germans were putting Jews in camps.
Obama levels this charge of r*cism at his critics b/c he knows it is America’s vulnerable spot. Whether it is part of anything bigger than his own ego, I don’t know. His minions throw it around b/c then they don’t have to consider any real criticism of him as having any veracity or merit.
I love how they praised Obam for making phone calls on his own. I’ve been able to use the phone since I was 5. It’s not that big a deal, folks.
It’s like proud parents oohing and aahing over Baby’s first steps. Except for a baby, the first step IS worthy of oohing and aahing. But here it’s all “Oh I can’t thank Obama enough for dialing a phone for this bill!” “He actually took time away from admiring himself long enough to talk to me!” or “Imagine! he involved himself in legislation! Maybe he’ll grow up to be a Senator!”
Why would anyone accuse the Conflucians of r*cism?
I dunno,maybe it’s because there stoopid like me.
If they attended an Obama event, they would be asked to drink the kool aid and then you could come float on the ceiling with us! I love change!!
MAblue: because it reminds you of Lenin’s lil potatoes, hitler youth, kim jong il’s flower children, mao’s cultural revolutionary soldiers and the young pioneers?
angelasmith, on October 3rd, 2008 at 4:01 pm Said:
destardi, I’m just wondering if we’ve found the ghost writer for “Dreams of My Father.”
Hahahahaha!
Dkat – from a couple of threads down – YES, Mercury is retrograde and will be until 10/15. Explains a lot to me….
wow, loved Mandos’s comments. The next time I can’t fall asleep, they could be terribly useful.
And totally loved his statement “At the time, I thought it was more effective if I did it graphically. This may have been a mistake”.
He’s basically stating that his judgement of what would be effective (a picture vs. text) – *may* have been a mistake.
He’s not apologizing for his unstated assumption that the Confluence first made the Conflucians Say joke.
He’s not apologizing for his insinuations that the Confluence, RD, and PUMAs are all racists.
He’s been caught out doing something blatantly racist – and I speak as a POC who keenly felt the casual racism of *his* post – but he wants to say his judgement of effectiveness was inaccurate.
I LOVE O-bots, don’t you?
Mandos, you just represent ’stupid’ in all its possible manifestations.
Delphyne: Ah, thought that might be the case
I never understood the assertion that enemy combatants were entitled to the rights of US citizens. Secret military trials have taken place for centuries. Sometimes classified intelligence sources need to be protected. Why, exactly, should an Al Qaeda terrorist be eligible for a trial in a civilian court? Under the Geneva Convention, an enemy combatant not in uniform is considered a spy and is entitled to be shot, not given the F. Lee Bailey treatment.
I love how they praised Obam for making phone calls on his own. I’ve been able to use the phone since I was 5. It’s not that big a deal, folks.
LOL. Did he dial the numbers himself?
chevalier, he obviously doesn’t understand stereotyping. there is nothing offensive about our “conflucians say” logo, there is no image associated to a caricature of asians, there is no broken english involved, it is simply a play on the word “confucian” if Mandos doesn’t get that then he is totally clueless…and i agree with your assessment of his boring writing…it even puts him to sleep, he’s always writing about “if I had the energy I would…” he’s a serious dumbass.
and even if it were the case, he still is falling back on the moral relativism that they all believe in….you did it too, so you can’t criticize me…um even in grade school we’re taught two wrongs don’t make a right…AND he totally missed my point, which was that one could argue from his use of the graphic that he is racist. I choose not to make that argument because it is superfluous and lacking of any real evidence to accuse him of such a thing. oh well, maybe some of those zombies will get it….MAblue, that video is almost as scary as the creepy singing kids….
Dave, we might not agree on the military commissions act, and I don’t think we should argue it here. But where there is an attack on one liberty after another, it’s hard not see that as a pattern. I guess I think we need to be vigilant. Obama worries me more than McCain, b/c BO represents the allegedly liberal party whose platform usually included protection of individual rights. So however much we’d disagree about habeas corpus (the writ is at the very core of Anglo-American law), there has been an erosion of many other rights by Bush/Cheney, and it looks like BO will continue to do that.
Mandos is a boring fellow.
“This may have been a mistake”.
That’s less of an apology than George Bush gave for the entire Iran Contra scandal. At least Bush said, “clearly, mistakes were made”– in the passive voice,but it beats “may have been.”
It’s a real sign of immaturity when people can’t admit they’re wrong.
and OH.MY.GOD. I just read the whole thread and went to his blog – Mandos is SOUTH F***ING ASIAN??? And maybe from Pakistan?@#$$$
So, sm77, it’s my turn to go:
Mandos, Tu Gadha hai. Tu bahut hi bewakoof hai. Tujhe thoda kam bolna chahiye; thoda aur sochna chahiye.
khuda hafiz.
Dave:
You are incorrect in several ways.
First of all, who is asserting that enemy combatants were entiled to the rights of US citizens?
Enemy combatants have rights under the Geneva Conventions, and since the US is a signatory the conventions are enforceable in US courts.
Enemy combatants are not terrorists. In their own countries they are hardly spies.
Lastly, during WWII the FBI arrested nazi spies. They were tried and convicted in courts that provided due process of law. Then they were executed.
We have mechanisms in place to balance national security with due process in cases involving classified infomation, like when Aldritch Ames was concted of spying.
I seriously doubt that providing due process and fair trials will allow guilty terrorists to escape justice.
Secrecy and no due prcess will linevitably result in miscarraiges of justing.
MABlue,
THAT
WAS
TOO
DISTURBING.
Alpha, Omega? WTF??? Then this trying to be a step team but actually spouting Obama points, is this Obamanazi Youth Camp?
Dave, Republicans have been slicing and dicing like this for years. I know they didn’t invent it, but they sure did perfect it. And I think they should know that while they’re demonizing anyone within a 100 sq mile radius of the letter R, that they are employing the very same tactics they deplore. I don’t think all republicans are evil, but a lot of the slimy tricks they use are….that’s my opinion of course.
I must say I expected something a little more substantial to support Mandos’ decision to accuse us of rac*sm.
A professor I never heard of dogwhistled in a article and that preoves we’re cross-burners?
Dave, the reason you put an ‘AlQaeda terrorist’ into a fair trial process in *any* civilized country is to make sure he/she is a real AlQaeda terrorist and not just another brown person who speaks a funny language. That’s all.
I’m pretty sure no one here or anywhere is arguing that we mustn’t take punitive actions against someone who’s a proven AlQaeda terrorist.
What is extra scary about Obama youth is that even if he loses , they will not be going away…at least that is what implied .
Ya know, Mandos posts like once a month and he suddenly is the face of Corrente? Yeah, there are over-the-top people there and kool-aid snorters, but its one of the few places that has dialogue. And they aren’t just theoretical either. If you’ve followed their PB2.0 discussions, you’d know that.
And for the record, you don’t have to have a PhD or be an “intellectual” to be an arrogant fool. I know plenty with and without who fit into that description. And from my experience, it tends to be those without PhDs who are the most arrogant. Maybe its different in the sciences, but there is nothing like having your tail handed to you consistently when you have to present at journal club or lab meetings. It’s a pretty humbling experience.
OHMYGOD…watching all of these freakish Obama cult videos is scaring the hellouta me. WTF is happening in my country??? Is he trying to brainwash the youth now so when his 8 years are up he can force through a referendum to end term limits so that he can become emperor for life???
Heaven help us! Please!
Chevalier: LOLOLOLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!
I got the wrong kinda “brown” – but HELL YES and a “What Chevalier Said”!!!
Well, I guess I am more sensitive to the slimy attacks from the other side. I agree that there is a great deal of mud slinging from both sides. No one likes it, but unfortunately it is cost effective and works.
I am not wrong about the Geneva convention. No uniform, no rights. And German spies were not tried in civil courts.
angienc, on October 3rd, 2008 at 1:01 pm Said:
If having a Ph.D. after your name is supposed to make you “smarter” then everyone else, then please allow me to rebut these bloggers: I have two B.A.s, a J.D. and an LL.M. (yeah, look it up) after my name and the attacks on this site as fomenting r@cism have no basis in reality.
_________________________________________________________
i have a Ph.D. in mathematics but I fail to see how that makes me smarter than the average bear. It just means I once loved mathematical study and research (still do) and delved into some aspects of it deeper than is expected of the average student. A certain minimal functional IQ is required (I can tie my shoe laces but prefer to wear shoes without so I don’t have to), but attitude, persistence, attention to detail and intellectual honesty are more important characteristics. I have met many students I would advise not to attempt a Ph.D. in mathematics, but it has never had anything to do with the color of their skin, or their external physical characteristics, or their cultural attitudes, or their sexual orientation. So, people can call me what they want but (a) I know I’m not smarter than a whole slew of people, and (b) I know I do not discriminate against people except when they are lazy and dishonest, and even then I try to think how they could improve.
That’s why I do not like BO: I see him as lazy and dishonest, and probably beyond remedy..
gqmartinez…..first of all I didn’t mention corrente in my post. secondly, why should I give 2 sh#$ts about them if they allow that kind of bs. they accused us of racism, well now one of there own is showing questionable judgement, and corrente is ultimately responsible for that. not my problem to feel sorry for them.
random question: anyone know what happened to Atrios’ blog?
GQMartinez: It still doesn’t change the fact that he’s a “crazed Obama-loon.”
And NO ONE has discredited Corrente here, Mandos is doing that all on his own by posting boatloads of flaming turds all over Corrente’s site. So did Anglachel, unfortunately.
not gonna happen here mandos, fuck off.
Dave- All the way up
I have to admit that 4 years ago, having the lone Kerry sign in a sea of Bush signs (my town is probably the only republican town in a sea of democrats in Illinois), I didn’t always feel comfortable. People were sometimes “in my face” about my being a dem. I thought that was bad. but it isn’t compared to what’s happening now.
This election has taught me that no political party is 100% good or bad – it comes in degrees and we have have the right to our opinions and should respect those of others, unless they are forced down our throats in illegal ways.
My town has a few scattered Obama signs up, but nary a McCain sign (down ticket republican signs are around). I know its out of fear. Peoles cars have been vandalised etc.
Yesterday my neighbor came over and asked me if I would mind if they put up a McCain sign. I was stunned that it has come to that.
sm, what about this from the current thread.
Gary, are you advocating that only one point of view be published at Corrente? That’s one of the things that is so good about that place for me. I can respond to people I disagree with freely because they are allowed to post. It’s a much more inviting place than here in that certain regard.
MABlue – I think I need to vomit now. I swear, I just ran through a list of my kids’ friends in Canada, wondering which ones could take them in when the Obamanazi Youth Brigades come to drag their parents away.
My aunt just called me to get in my face for Obama .
She never called me in 50 years! I have done the calling . Well that’s one change Barry did bring about. We have a quite an exchange. In stead of being upset, at this point I just laughed. My vote is mine and I have the right to cast it as I see fit without abuse being heaped upon me. End of story .
All day MSNBC has said Sarah had the wrong General’s name.
How about this, did anyone report this blatant lie? That would be a big fat NO!
“During the debate, Joe Biden gave several Delaware shout-outs, including Wilmington’s Union Street… Maybe, I heard this wrong, or misunderstood, but I think he mentioned Katie’s restaurant…… Wilmington used to have a Katie’s restaurant – way back in the day – and it was in Little Italy, as is Union Street, but I’m almost positive Katie’s wasn’t on Union Street. And it hasn’t been Katie’s in, well, years. Maybe he said Kozy’s – as in Kozy Korner?” — The News Journal
“Can I respond? Look, all you have to do is go down Union Street with me in Wilmington or go to Katie’s Restaurant or walk into Home Depot with me where I spend a lot of time and you ask anybody in there whether or not the economic and foreign policy of this administration has made them better off in the last eight years.” — Joe Biden
This article is from The Times,UK
The day America was born again
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article4735147.ece
According to Politico, Katie’s closed in the 1980’s.
Katie’s Restaurant on Union? nope
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/03/you-can-find-anything-you-want-except-katies-restaurant/
Sounds to me like Sen. Biden really does know the neighborhood, just mixed up the name.
Curtis Sliwa has a radio show? Where have I been?
GQMartinez: I meant front pagers & actual posters here. Conflucians are commenters at Corrente & vice versa. What you referred to was 1 person’s opinion, not the blog owner, nor the blog posters & writers here. Please don’t fan this more out of proportion. We’re mad at Mandos for talking sh&t and being the exact same thing he accuses us of.
All I can say is WOW! My Yahoo Newsfeed now declares Sarah Palin the winner of the Vice-Presidential debate.
In coded words of an Obamacentric in the tank MSM organization- I shall translate
-an utter Rout! the most complete stoning of an opponnent in 2000 years!
-grace poise beauty and Intellegence personified! The Girl has class!
-Obama is lucky he doesnot have to face her.
-God the shoes were fabu(from the official gay fasion critic) and the hair and dress flawless!
-we really wanted to see her crash and burn-but ended up rooting for her to clock the heartless Credit Card Joe Obiden.
-She has a clear grasp of the Issues and history-she is forward thinking. Cred Card Joe not so much-could not get off the Bush train. Choo Choo Joe that one left the station! Oh and it took the R*ce card.
-final thought form Yahoos estemed news staff-Vote Obama/Biden she is still a girl!
OT: I think that along with “There you go again” from RR, “Hey, can I call you Joe?” from Sarah Palin may well be seen in hindsight as a statement associated with a sea change in the election outcome.
What would she have asked BO: “Hey, I can’t call you Barack, doggone it! Can I call you Barry?”
Something to lift your spirits…
“It’s Written All Over His Face”
http://www.stateofdisbelief.wordpress.com
John in CA: “RD was supposed to prove her nonracism by submitting racist comments she deleted to some unnamed blogger.”
That’s just downright Maoist. RD is not in the business of satisfying the demands of every self-appointed political policeman on the ‘net.
or maybe it will be the great line: “Say it ain’t so, Joe.”
Ok who is Mandos? Gary -and GQmartinez we are just tired of political orthodoxy Obama style throwing the R*ce word around has just left me cold he have devalued the term R*cist like a 1,000,000,000,000,000 Mark banknote from the 1922 Wiermar Republic!
I no longer am outgaged by the word-it is not a hot button word for me anymore. I am stiloutraged by the real thing though….I guess I am Post-R*cist!
Gallup says….Women Who Are Politically Independent: Up for Grabs? October 3, 2008
Independent women who are Catholic, middle aged, not college graduates, of average religiosity, and of mid-range incomes are most evenly split in their presidential candidate choices, and thus may be most “up for grabs” in the remaining weeks of the campaign
hahahahah YEAH
wow the trafic here at the Confluence is like unbelievable and at 3.3 million hits th Cheeto must be jealous! ! Oh and that poor mess of a moderator at talk left must be ready to be carried to the fourth floor of Bellview Hospital.
I guess the bleeding has stiopped from McCains Poll Numbers!
Even my Obama supporting friends know there’s not much there. My most honest friend had to give a nod to Palin’s performance last night.
Hey myiq — I’ve been off of this site for a while (had to get to work) so I missed this comment:
myiq2xu, on October 3rd, 2008 at 3:11 pm Said:
My self-esteem is shattered by the discovery that angie, in addition to a 50,000 watt smile has far more impressive credentials than mine.
See, this is what I don’t get about men — shouldn’t you be flattered that a woman with my credentials thinks you’re the cat’s meow?
Very interesting. McCain camp released the Palins tax returns, and it seems that they give a good bit to charity, despite raising 4 kids on not a huge amount of money.
ARLINGTON, VA — Today, the McCain-Palin campaign released Governor and Todd Palin’s tax returns for 2006 and 2007. The Palins’ tax returns show that they paid $36,682 in federal taxes for 2006 and 2007. In the past two years, Governor and Todd Palin have contributed $8,205 to charitable causes. Below please find summary information about the Palins’ 2006 and 2007 tax returns.
The McCain-Palin campaign also released Governor and Todd Palin’s Public Financial Disclosure Report.
SUMMARY OF TAX RETURNS
Taxes Paid:
For 2006, the Palins paid $11,944 (LINE 63) in total taxes on gross income of $127,869 (LINE 37), which is a 9.3% tax rate.
For 2007, the Palins paid $24,738 (LINE 63) in total taxes on gross income of $166,080 (LINE 37), which is a 14.9% tax rate.
Charitable Contributions:
2006
In 2006, Sarah and Todd Palin donated $4,250 to charity in cash/check donations and $630 in non-cash/check donations, for a total of $4,880. This is 3.3% of their adjusted gross income.
2007
In 2007, Sarah and Todd Palin donated $2,500 to charity in cash/check donations and $825 in non-cash/check donations, for a total of $3,325. This is 1.5% of their adjusted gross income.
gqmartinez your more than welcome to go comment there then. some of us have been deemed too low brow…your comment about people with PhD’s was a little over the top imo….your elitism is showing…
Oh heck yeah Mandos showed his racism with that piece of trash. There’s been a lot of anti Asian racism spouted by Obots. Some really ugly examples were on Kos and other Obot blogs when Hillary won California. These younger upper class white bloggers who are deluded into believing they are progressive really are conpletely insensitive to racism against anyone but African American men. They are totally insensitive to the racism/sexism African American women that aren’t of the upper classes deal with. If you dare pollute yourself go look at the posts and comments during the Duke rape case on Kos. Guess what you’ll find- these same Obots were saying some of the most repulsive racist/sexist/classist trash you’ll ever see online.
Fox News is shredding Biden and all of his lies and mistakes.
For Immediate Release
October 3, 2008 Contact:
What They’re Saying About Governor Sarah Palin On Wash U. Debate: Volume 4
Governor Palin “Ended Up Dominating” The Debate, As She “Seemed To Hit Her Stride”
Politico’s Roger Simon: “Sarah Palin was supposed to fall off the stage at her vice presidential debate Thursday evening. Instead, she ended up dominating it. She not only kept Joe Biden on the defensive for much of the debate, she not only repeatedly attacked Barack Obama, but she looked like she was enjoying herself while doing it. She smiled. She faced the camera. She was warm. She was human. Gosh and golly, she even dropped a bunch of g’s.” (Roger Simon, “You Betcha Sarah Palin Can Debate,” Politico, 10/2/08)
Christian Broadcasting Network’s David Brody: “Combining a happy warrior spirit with a home-spun style and some substance thrown in to boot, Palin proved that she belonged on that stage with Joe Biden tonight.” (David Brody, “Palin Hurdles Over The Bar In VP Debate,” Christian Broadcasting Network’s “Brody File,” 10/3/08)
Brody: “As for Palin, she seemed to hit her stride tonight. She offered more substance on issues like healthcare, energy policy, taxes and even Darfur by explaining how her role as Governor played a part.” (David Brody, “Palin Hurdles Over The Bar In VP Debate,” Christian Broadcasting Network’s “Brody File,” 10/3/08)
The Washington Post’s Dan Balz: ” In a fast-paced exchange about a range of domestic and foreign policy issues, she was the aggressive campaigner who in the first weeks of her candidacy had so energized the Republican faithful.” (Dan Balz, “Palin Delivers, But Doubts Linger,” The Washington Post, 10/3/08)
ABC’s George Stephanopoulos: “From the minute Palin walked onstage and said, ‘Nice to meet you, Joe — can I call you Joe?’ she had her performance down. It was very winning and very appealing and we saw that throughout the debate.” (George Stephanopoulos, “Stephanopoulos: VP Debate Report Card,” ABC News, 10/3/08)
National Review: “Gov. Sarah Palin, once again, confounded her critics with a strong performance. She did it at the Republican convention, and she did it again last night in her debate with Sen. Joe Biden. She performed with poise and charm. She effectively made the case that Senator Obama would be nave in foreign policy and harmful to economic growth, and that Senator McCain would be a common-sense reformer.” (Editorial, “Palin’s Triumph,” National Review, 10/3/08)
National Review: “She handled questions about Iraq, Afghanistan, and Iran well. She connected domestic-policy arguments to the lives of average voters. Anyone who hoped — or feared — that she would fall flat on her face was proven wrong.” (Editorial, “Palin’s Triumph,” National Review, 10/3/08)
National Review’s Byron York: “Palin delivered a strong and sure performance Thursday night.” (Byron York, “Sarah Palin, The Winner By A Wink,” National Review, 10/3/08)
New York Post: “Eight real-life ‘hockey moms’ plucked from the ice to watch the vice-presidential face-off last night said their high-profile counterpart from Alaska dealt her critics a bell-ringing body check.” (Brendan Scott, “Sarah Scores!” New York Post, 10/3/08)
New York Daily News: “Sarah Palin gave as good as she got in her televised faceoff with Joe Biden Thursday night – and by that measure she shored up her standing as John McCain’s vice presidential running mate. Palin sailed through the 90 minutes with none of the unsteadiness she had shown in TV interviews. She was both assured and down-home folksy in arguing the case for McCain and against Barack Obama.” (Editorial, “Sarah Palin Scores,” [New York] Daily News, 10/3/08)
Dick Morris & Eileen McGann: “Palin Wins Big With A Reagan-Like Flair.” (Dick Morris and Eileen McGann, Op-Ed, “Palin Wins Big With A Reagan-Like Flair,” New York Post, 10/3/08)
Dick Morris & Eileen McGann: “Last night was a big, big win for Sarah Palin. She showed originality, charisma and sass – a style that is refreshing and different in our politics. She didn’t just win the vice-presidential debate, she showed that she belongs with Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton as among the best communicators of our modern political times.” (Dick Morris and Eileen McGann, Op-Ed, “Palin Wins Big With A Reagan-Like Flair,” New York Post, 10/3/08)
The Wall Street Journal: “A confident, folksy Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin attacked the Democratic presidential ticket Thursday over tax hikes and partisanship, holding her own against her vice-presidential rival, Delaware Sen. Joe Biden.” (Laura Meckler, “Biden, Palin Clash On Taxes, Iraq In Sharp-Edged Debate,” The Wall Street Journal, 10/3/08)
The Weekly Standard’s Fred Barnes: “Was she capable of being vice president? Based on her debate performance, the answer was yes.” (Fred Barnes, Op-Ed, “Comeback,” The Weekly Standard, 10/3/08)
The Weekly Standard’s Stephen Hayes: “She won because to a vast majority of those who watched the debate tonight she likely came off as a plausible vice president. And that was all that mattered.” (Stephen Hayes, Op-Ed, “A Plausible Vice President,” The Weekly Standard, http://www.weeklystandard.com, 10/3/08)
Anchorage Daily News: “But Palin kept her cool, stayed on her game and lived up to her reputation as a spirited debater. She played to her strengths — her ability to connect with people like a neighbor and her resilience. Despite the contempt and criticism she’s endured in recent days, she walked onto the stage like a candidate on top of the world. She shook hands with Biden and said ‘Hey, can I call you Joe?’ That opening line was friendly, down-to-earth and said, ‘We’re equals.’” (Editorial, “Palin Hits Her Stride,” Anchorage Daily News, 10/3/08)
Denver Post: “This thing’s not over yet. She held her own. In what was likely one of the most-watched vice presidential debates in the country’s history, Sarah Palin went in as the underdog Thursday night and came out of it with nary a scratch.” (Editorial, “Palin Has Fun, Holds Her Own In Tepid Veep Debate,” Denver Post, 10/3/08)
Denver Post: “In her opening answer to a question about the troubled economy, Palin spoke with clarity and confidence and got to the heart of the matter with the kind of populist candor she displayed at the Republican National Convention. ‘Go to a kid’s soccer game on Saturday and ask any parent what they think about the economy, and I betcha you’re going to hear about fear,’ Palin said. ‘Our economy is hurting.’” (Editorial, “Palin Has Fun, Holds Her Own In Tepid Veep Debate,” Denver Post, 10/3/08)
Governor Palin Turned Biden’s Words Against Him
New York Daily News: “Most effectively, perhaps, she turned Biden’s past criticisms of Obama’s plans for Iraq against Biden, adding, ‘John McCain knows how to win a war.’” (Editorial, “Sarah Palin Scores,” [New York] Daily News, 10/3/08)
New York Post: “Sarah Palin used folksy language, winks, smiles and sharp elbows to try to put seasoned rival Joe Biden on the defensive in last night’s vice-presidential debate.” (Geoff Earle, “Pit Bull Sarah Shows Her Bite,” New York Post, 10/3/08)
The Weekly Standard’s Stephen Hayes: “Palin surfaced issues that put Joe Biden on the defensive or, at the very least, made him uncomfortable. And she had several moments where she scored clean hits on Biden and Barack Obama: on clean coal, on the patriotism of raising taxes, on Obama saying one thing to one group of voters and something different to another, on Biden criticizing Obama for his vote on troop funding in Iraq, when she reminded Biden that he himself said that he’d be privileged to run on a ticket with John McCain.” (Stephen Hayes, Op-Ed, “A Plausible Vice President,” The Weekly Standard, http://www.weeklystandard.com, 10/3/08)
Hayes: “When Biden complained that Republicans have taken to repeating the ‘drill, drill, drill’ mantra, she owned it and gently corrected him. ‘I think the chant is drill, baby, drill.’ It was a clever turn, and judging from virtually every poll on the issue, it was politically very smart.” (Stephen Hayes, Op-Ed, “A Plausible Vice President,” The Weekly Standard, http://www.weeklystandard.com, 10/3/08)
Chicago Sun-Times’ Steve Huntley: “Appearing assertive and confident in her national debate premiere, Palin battled Sen. Joseph Biden on a broad range of issues — the Wall Street meltdown, taxes and spending, Iraq, foreign relations, which candidate best represents change — and more than held her own.” (Steve Huntley, Op-Ed, “Palin Eases GOP Jitters, You Betcha,” Chicago Sun-Times, 10/3/08)
Huntley: “On international issues, the area where she has been considered to be weak, Palin appeared to get under Biden’s skin when she criticized Barack Obama for saying he would meet without preconditions with some of the world’s worse dictators. Biden’s face turned grim, and he went so far as to deny that Obama had ever said he would meet without preconditions with the president of Iran, when in fact the Democratic presidential nominee said that during the primary.” (Steve Huntley, Op-Ed, “Palin Eases GOP Jitters, You Betcha,” Chicago Sun-Times, 10/3/08)
Christian Broadcasting Network’s David Brody: “Oh, and by the way, she morphed into ‘Sarah Barracuda’ tonight by using Biden’s past statements on Obama against him. She had it all working tonight.” (David Brody, “Palin Hurdles Over The Bar In VP Debate,” Christian Broadcasting Network’s “Brody File,” 10/3/08)
The Wall Street Journal: “The Republican nominee more than held her own on foreign policy in general, and in our view won on points at least on Iraq and Afghanistan. She didn’t let Mr. Biden get away with interpreting the comments of a U.S. general in Afghanistan as a rejection of Mr. McCain’s strategy. And on Iraq she exposed both Mr. Biden’s change of heart on the war, and his change of heart on Mr. Obama’s views on the war. At times Mr. Biden even looked a little frustrated — as if he couldn’t quite believe he had to share the stage with someone who hasn’t hung out with Dick Lugar or . . . Mike Mansfield back when the Senate was still a civil place. Or someone who says ‘doggonit.’” (Editorial, “Free Sarah Palin,” The Wall Street Journal, 10/3/08)
Sorry, I only meant to post the last paragraph. But, it is all good reading.
Hillary has to stop playing politics or I am gonna have to turn on her!
http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/10/03/what-did-senator-clinton-think-about-governor-palin-and-the-debate/
Biden’s son is going to be an attorney in Iraq and Palin’s son is going into combat.
Love them both so much, but the risk is not the same.
I’m pretty late to the party here on Mandos, but reading through all these comments a couple of things come up.
I objected to Mandos original Corrente post over there, because while I thought he brought up a good point — be careful not to let the debate on the economic crisis slide into Republican smears (which I didn’t think danikat did) — he couldn’t just make the point without branding TC and PUMAs as r*c*st and making us sound like we’re all hostile toward affordable housing for AAs first of all, and poor people secondarily. I also tagged him for not responding to danikat’s post here.
What he posted here today, I couldn’t really follow — maybe some of his comments got deleted?
But I was hoping Mandos would respond here on the economic analysis alone, because I know far too little myself and have been wanting very much to hear the issues actually discussed, just without the cheap shots.
Combined with Anglachel’s cheap shot on the r*c*sm front, plus the r*c*sm hammer all of us have been hit with so many times that a bulldozer could run over my head and I wouldn’t even notice I’ve become so inured to that particular accusation, and Mandos implication that PUMAs were racist because of danikat’s original post & the comments, maybe that wasn’t such a good idea (I’m thinking now).
Tagging him for the cheap r*c*sm shots is wildly appropriate. But taking shots at him personally (unless you know him personally) is bothering me. He may be a perpetual grad student of the full-of-sh*t genre, or he may be a dogwalker with a penchant for economic analysis or a Nobel Peace Prize winner for all I know. But that all just gets in the way of what could have been a pretty interesting discussion of the root causes the mortgage crisis and possible global economic meltdown. I’ve read danikat’s posts and all her comments, and all the comments to each related post in the past few days. And while my knowledge of the history of subprime lending and anti-discrimination laws’ effect on lending isn’t great, I don’t read them as disagreeing all that much.
But it’s this obot practice (developed and refined by the worst part of the Republican Party over the last 30 years) of tagging every comment even remotely related to PUMA or Clinton supporters or variations thereon with the greatest ‘progressive’ sin on earth — r*c*sm, as well as our reaction to it that obscuring what are probably some very important points about the economic crisis in general and the wish to make housing affordable for everyone specifically.
Pls don’t get me wrong, my reaction initial reaction to Mandos was ‘f*ck off’, and as concerns the CDS and PDS (Puma, not Palin in this case), there’s just no place for that. But I do think discussions of root causes need to be carefully made, not because we might be harboring secret resevoirs of r*c*sm, but because it would be a(nother) tragedy if the narrative that emerged from this whole mess turned out to be: making housing affordable for poorer people and fighting discrimination leads to global economic ruin. (and again, not saying danikat or any of us said anything remotely like that).
I guess what I am saying is that I saw an opportunity for discussion about root causes that got lost in PUMA-bashing and legit reaction to that that may have gone too far, I probably contributed to it myself, and I wish instead it could have been a real back-and-forth on the issues that would have helped me (not that it’s all about me) understand what seem to me to be a big f*cked up mess.
gqmartinez, Corrente is a totally different kind of blog.
They dont really allow ‘anybody’ to post (e.g. I still havent got my registration approved there nine months after filling out the online form). Because of their very strict (& inefficient) approval policy they have neither many comments on their posts nor any trolls.
The Confluence, on the contrary is a FAR more open blog. ANYone can post here, and too many trolls do so, which means their posts need deletion, etc etc. The Confluence has never been close-minded about respectful disagreement or opposed to logic. Make your point here and people will listen (or not, sometimes there’s SO MANY comments that some dont get read at all).
If you’re dissing the Confluence – one of the best blogs in the universe
– for one like Corrente because of one aspect, well, there’s no accounting for taste.
Can someone let me out of moderation? I tried to be really careful and mask the r-word, and I have no links, but I’m in again.
And sorry all, I’ve written another crazy long post.
Joan Walsh said Sarah was “mean”.
Please, next earthquake hit MSNBC in NY.
Carol Diamonds-your post made me smile more please more!
your fuzzybear
Thanks fuzzy.
MSNBC is playing the r*ce card again. Of course it is white on black. Still waiting for the black on white.
We get our real Hillary Back on November 5th! Big Dawg too!
It is a small price to pay for Hillary 2012-
My sweet Carol-keep your eyes on the prize!
Palin is a very quick study.
She flubbed a supreme court question with Katie Couric; next time she was asked, she went over court cases almost like a wonk.
She has the style down. When she uses phrases like “you betcha,” elitists go crazy but regular Americans like it just fine.
The Dallas Morning News headline reads “Palin Survives to Fight Another Day. “Astonishingly, she never Quayled, holding her ground against the far more experienced Joe Biden.” The last sentence: “We’ve still got a race on our hands – and given how poorly things have gone for Team McCain in the past two weeks, goshdarnit, that’s an unexpected gift.”
Goshdarnit to those Bosniacs, I say. And they seem to think that this truly was a make or break for McCain. Well, Bush won with Quayle. But then again, he’s a guy.
If I were Palin’s advisors, I’d do this like the NFL. They watch game films. You go over each issue and question until the answer is perfect.
why am I in moderation for praising the Confluence? RD’s waaaaay too modest.
“Can I call you Joe?” I think choosing Palin was brilliant. Pollsters must be culling out ordinary people and calling people out of college directories or something, b/c the real world is just not matching up with what I see on TV or on itrade.com. No way McCain loses Ohio with Palin, let alone North Carolina.
i’m sorry valhalla, mandos can fuck off as far as I’m concerened. I’d rather have someone take potshots at me than use my reputation as tool towards a political end, or worse yet just to stroke his own narcissistic elitist ego. He is not a decent person. He’s shameless and a liar and a hypocrite…
Ok I heard tha Obambi for America is going to withdraw its request to ask McCain to pull out of the race because he cannot win. He still believes McCain is just drawing this whole process out for the american people.
Obama says he willa llow people to vote for the loser and he plans the most elaborate inaugiration in american history-Bono will introduce him to the podium and madonna and cher will sing a special tribute to his political accomplishments….the song is expected to last 30 seconds
Nielsen: 69.9 Million Watched Biden And Palin’s V.P Debate
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/media_entertainment/699-million-watched-biden-and-palin%E2%80%99s-vp-debate/
wonder how many were tuning in for o’biden!
Jmac – she was here in Dallas today. I wish I had known ahead of time, I would have headed down there.
Mark Warner is debating on CSpan 2
Fuzzy,
I heard he was going to be dropped from the sky ala Jesus Christ Superstar on a pair of neon wings while a choir of droids sing “Hosanna heysanna Obamabama ho bama hey bama hosanna”
Carol, some of the Democrats from Collin County were going to protest her Dallas visit, but the Democratic Women’s group refused to be a part of it. Good for them.
30 seconds – please, that would give them time for 15 costume changes.
fuzzybeargville, on October 3rd, 2008 at 6:23 pm Said:
“I guess the bleeding has stiopped from McCains Poll Numbers!”
_________________________________________________________
No, I don’t think so, not from McCain, nor from Obama. The Real Clear Politics average of many polls has a running average since November 2007 with BO about 2.6% points ahead ( 5.8% points ahead today, but only 2.6% points ahead on average). The, considerable, fluctuations about that average since early 2008 are statistically indistinguishable from random fluctuations, lying within the standard error from the average The lead of 2.6% on average is within the margin of error of these polls.
So, overall, although BO is slightly ahead it is still neck and neck. Of course a different situation pertains state by state, and in many states there is too little polling data to draw any reasonable conclusion.
Oh my and then he was going to have Janet Jackson and Justin timberlake sing a lovely duet while completely clothed!
I’ve been gone for a few hours but I also wanted to agree that there have been some awfully r*cist potshots at Asians and Hispanics this year. In one of my classes this week, my professor as well as many of my classmates contributed r*cism to the fact that Hispanic overwhelmingly supported Hillary Clinton during the primaries. WTF? Even though the majority of Hispanics now support Obama, they are still being blamed for liking Hillary? When will the CDS and r*ce baiting end? Maybe, just maybe, there were real reasons like the fact that Hillary has established a relationship with the Hispanic community long before anyone knew who Obama was. Gawd.
gary — and you should feel free to do so, I’m just putting my 2 cents in.
But one thing that has bothered me for a long time is the association of personality and ideas — that because someone is an *ss, their arguments must be equally crap. That’s very often not the case, and is a troublesome sort of ad hominem attack that the obots have perfected. I’m trying, for myself at least, to not engage in that.
Of course, some people are such *sshats or have shown over time that all their arguments are motivated by their jerkiness that it’s just not worth the time to even consider them. There’s a line of *sshattery that once crossed, no need to keep trying to find a gem in a pile of cr*p, it’s just not there. Where that line is, is a bit different for everybody. (actually, for me, it’s in a different place even on different days).
I’m late to the Manos party as well & I admit I’d never heard of him before today. Nonetheless, I am shocked, shocked that anyone takes anything he says seriously. He can call me a r@cist, a sexist, hell, a nazi and it would bother me one bit because — consider the source! He is an unbelievable moron who appears to lack such basic skills as deductive reasoning and critical thinking. gary — please don’t let him get under your skin.
I do admit, though, I found his writing hilarious! This guy has a PhD in what? Rodeo Clowning? He is a testament to the sorry state of the education in this country.
madamab, prolix, myiq — thanks for the good time!
valhalla, I hear ya. there just comes a point where there is no use talking. that for me is being labeled racist. that shuts me down right away. what that tells me is that he doesn’t want to have a dialogue, or he’s too stupid to understand that that kind of heavy handedness is totally counter productive.
I just put a new post up … I apoligize to all the sharks and pirahanas that I insult in the park …
i admit to being a sharkist …
sigh
Right on Angie how is NC today? love you pic!
angienc – please do not make fun of clowns (myiq will be hurt).
Zombie PRAIISE OBMAMA!!!
Carol — I have a feeling myiq can handle it. lol
hi fuzzy! I glad you like my pic — I love hearing you on the blog radio — you’re always so funny & informed.
NC is ok today — getting a little cooler & the leaves are changing.
Vallhalla — are you the same as the poster on TL? I don’t go there anymore except for the occasional update of the insanity level.
Some very late thoughts to add to the many here. The freely thrown charges of racism in this campaign season are eerily like the charges of “communism” in the 1950s — the horrid McCarthyism. I remember the era. The 1950s were not as innocent and happy as some believe. There was real racism then (as there was sexism though that was sometimes expressed in cutesy, “fatherly” ways).
I was always appalled at the comments I heard used against blacks. Some dear and elegant church friends of my mother relayed their stories about traveling through the south, and not being able to find a rest room nor even a place to eat when they were hungry. I simply could not fathom that!
When my daughter was two, I took her and the lady who took care of her, a wonderful black woman, to a prominent office tower in Dallas that had a paid telescopic view of the city. As we got in line to get our tickets, a man nodded at me disapprovingly and told me “she” could not go up with us. I was incensed, but she quietly asked me not to say anything more. She didn’t want a scene. Out of respect to her, we left. Still, I was truly shocked and angry about the incident. (Discrimination sometimes also occurs when there is a dominant race in any given geographic area. For instance, I grew up in an area where Anglo whites were a very small minority. We did experience discrimination but not to the extent of American blacks.)
I had been taught as a very young child not to discriminate and not to belittle another race. When my daughter saw a black lady on the street, she was so happy, she cried out “Mama, there’s a chocolate lady.”
Our country has tried very hard to overcome racism and it has cost the blood of blacks and whites alike. In this year when we could be celebrating the rise of a black man and of a white woman to the level of the US Presidency, we have instead seen abuse of power. We have seen beyond-the-pale sexism and the trashing of women and we have seen women and men called rac ists for simply supporting a woman they believed was the very best of all the candidates.
I just hope that what we are experiencing is the worst and that those slinging about false charges on all fronts will come to their senses soon. We still have real racism in some places and we have horrible sexism that continues to hurt family paychecks. We need to address those things but we also need to stop accusing people falsely simply because they have a different political viewpoint or favor a different candidate.
Alwaysthinking- With all due respects sexism ‘continues to hurt family paychecks’, yes but it also stigmatizes and devalues women in countless other ways.
Yikes. There is a comment from one student insisting they have the right to vote TWICE because they “pay taxes” in Virginia. WTF? The commenters seem to actually believe that it’s LEGAL to vote TWICE. What is wrong with these people?
My son is in his early 20s and he keeps getting direct mail from Obama urging him to sign up for absentee voting. They must be targeting anyone college age because neither my husband nor I are getting the same pitch. (We just get the ones asking of money.)
Heck, I don’t really give a rat’s a$$ anymore if they call me racist. I’ve been called everything else this election cycle, why not that? All it really means is that I don’t support Obama, and since that is true, let ‘em call me racist. They have successfully re-defined the meaning of that word by now. The next edition of Webstser’s will define it as people who voted against Barack Obama in the 2008 election cycle, so they’ll have to make up a new word now to describe what racism used to mean until this year.
Honora, Yes! I have experienced it personally in so very, very many ways. That’s why this year I had to shed every bit of “accommodation” to those who commit sexism. I can no longer excuse them “because they were raised that way.” It is a great sense of freedom, and of course it means that there is simply no way I can in good conscience vote for Obama, even at Hillary’s urging. I told her campaign this way back in the spring. Like Lynette Long, I had to explain my reasons to my son — a lifetime of pin pricks suddenly becomes REALLY painful. And we have to do what we are doing to stop it and other true discrimination.
Ciardha, oh word, freaking freaking word. I’ve always said these white boy bloggers are just as rac ist as they are sexist. The toxic stew has been going on for years, it was like a frat house over there half the time. In addition to what you mentioned (and another notorious thread about date rape) I remember when Don Imus was their hero because he bashed Bush and any amount of blantant sexism/rac ism was a-okay, just suck it up and don’t be so sensitive.
Wow, I left this thread earlier and come back to see the Great Mandos graced us with his presence.
I attempted to read and comprehend what he said about gilbertarian whatever and finally just chalked it up to so much bullshit.
So then I go to his blog, courtesy of myiq’s link and see: SURPRISE! He’s in Canada. I don’t inject myself into Canadian politics so I wonder why he’s so hot and bothered about American politics.
William at 1:52 pm–THANK YOU. I have been thinking for a few days now that Obama supporters are acting like Joe McCarthyites, with “racism” substituted for “Communism”.
I am glad that I never bothered to join the Democratic Party, because now I am spared the tedium of resigning from it.
HA HA, now mandos and anglachel have that jackbooted, anti-semite, racist, sexist hatemonger christina on their side. Now I know they’re full of shit. christina is as dumb as a bag of rocks, and her writing is as boring and childish as mandos’…although this is from one of her sychophantic zombies, ames….good laugh
http://www.yestodemocracy.com/yes_to_democracy_no_to_pu/2008/10/the-enemy-of-my.html
I see from their comments that their readership has totally dried up. Doesn’t surprise me. Even the obots can’t stand her wingnut rantings….
Well said. Well and wholly conclusive deconstruction of Mandos’–and also Anglachel’s–arguments. I was sad to see Anglachel’s snooty tone of superiority, even as she was making a laughable attempt to justify the very arguments she has condemned in the past. Mandos doesn’t warrant further comment.
In time, Anglachel will have a blogroll of ONE, since no one lives up to Anglachel’s image of brilliance but Anglachel! Special, unique, divinely inspired. It reminded me of someone….hmmm….