There are very little details out in the public concerning the supposedly ironed-out terms that will solve the current financial crisis. Almost every one is worried that the terms of the rescue will involve taxpayers bailing out Wall Street High Rollers and their bonus-loving CEOs. If you review Financial Economics literature, you will discover that there are several findings in the studies done by economists that can provide guidance to every one on the best way to approach the bail-out. One of the most recent studies comes from the International Money Fund. It is by Luc Laeven and Fabian Valencia and was posted this month at the IMF research website.
If you’re not familiar with regression analysis, which is the analytical method of choice here, stay away from the last half of this paper. However, you may find some interesting things in the first section because it includes a huge database that looks at all systematically important financial crises between 1970 and 2007. This means the database has 42 crises in 37 countries. It looks at steps taken by government to solve these crises and the length and depth of the crisis.
Here’s the link: http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2008/wp08224.pdf
(Another good source of information for suggestions is the Brit Magazine The Economist. Many of its articles are also available on line and are not technical in nature.)
If you’re not up to looking at the details, let me try to explain some of the things that Financial Economists have learned since the Great Depression. You should look for some of these dos and don’ts when we finally get to see the details of the plan. Sixty years of study and growing theories has shown us that the tactical approaches–which mostly involve containing the crisis–are very expensive and don’t work too well. Usually, containment approaches happen while the crisis is unfolding. As an example of this, I will point to the bail-outs of individual banks and financial institutions that have happened to date. We’ve seen this containment tactic most of this year.
Governments can respond to these kinds of crises in many ways. In a lot of cases, we see reallocation of wealth from taxpayers to Banks and other institutions that hold debt. When wealth transfers like this happen, many problems happen in the general economy. The existing research done in this area shows that providing assistance to banks and their borrowers can actually increase loan losses to banks and in many cases lead to laxes in regulation that can be abused. Study-after-study shows that individual bank bail-out is usually not a good approach. Other costly and not that efficient tactical steps can include accomodative policies like direct government guarantees of bank liabilities or injecting ‘liquidity’ into the bank itself by lending money to the bank. The literature shows that none of these steps necessarily lead to a speedier recovery.
So what strategies can our country adopt to staunch the current crisis? Proposals vary, but a good example of something that worked would be the comprehensive plan we had back under the first Bush administration during the S&L meltdown. The RTC (Resolution Trust Corporation) was set up in 1989 to deal with the many, many S&L bankruptcies. The purpose of the RTC was to dispose of failed S&L assets in a way that didn’t drive prices on the properties and assets down. It put a bottom price on things like farm land or houses that were the underlying assets held by the thrifts. In the case of situation now, a new ‘agency’ would buy troubled mortgage-backed securities from the market and hold them until there was a turn around in their value.
This new agency could also serve another purpose similar to a depression-era institution called the Home Owner’s Loan Corporation. Hillary has suggested this type of agency whose purpose would be to buy and restructure existing mortgages. This would basically keep many folks in their homes with mortgages they could handle. For this to work, it has to be geared towards folks that can actually follow-through and make their payments. It could not be a social largess program because that would only create more loan losses in the long run. It’s purpose would be to keep folks in their homes as well as put faith back into house prices and the mortgage market. It would also alleviate the downward pressure on home prices. A new agency would be allowed to hold the loans and troubled securities until the market function agains and the assets once again become valuable. Many of the assets in some of these securities are fine now and could just be repackaged. The profits need to be returned to the taxpayer and used to pay down the debt. We should ensure that the proceeds do not go to any politician’s pet project.
At the same time, we need to look for better oversight of derivatives markets. The big issue that can be layed squarely at the feet of the Bush Administration and Greenspan is their inability to see the need for regulation of these markets. The existence of this market (which serves a similar function to insurance) injected more ‘moral hazard’ into the banking community. This means if you think you’ve got something insured, you’re more likely to act haphazardly. We already had banks being encouraged to loosen their underwriting standards for certain borrowers by Fannie and Freddie. With the invention of these innovations, banks were covered, or so they thought, even if they did practice lax lending standards. These derivatives were an attempt to manage credit risk. However, as we have seen, actually placing accurate vales on this contracts just created more uncertainty. The implied consent and guarantee of the government via Fannie and Freddie exacerbated the misvaluation in a market with no oversight. We need to re-visit the regulatory responsibilities of the SEC and the FED and update them so that they reflect the existence of these extremely sophisticated and difficult to understand markets. Also, something has to be done about Fannie and Freddie and how their role to feed loans to creditworthy middle class Americans warped into some social engineering plan that began the lax lending standards and provided opportunities for exploitation.
So, do we need a bail-out? Yes. Unfortunately, financial contagions do act as a disease and can create economic downturns that impact everyone. All you have to do is crack a book on the Great Depression to see how problems in banks and stock markets eventually transfer over to Main Street. What is needed is the least expensive and most prudent approach. The literature tells us that it must be systematic and not just tactical. You need to strengthen the market, not just select players. I’ve outlined a few things that financial economists have learned about past crises. I’d hope we get the details out pretty soon so you can look and see if the bailout is consistent with these principles.
Filed under: General






Thank you, dakinikat.
I posted this on the previous thread. There is a side-by-side comparison of the Paulson, Frank/Dodd, and final bailout plans at National Review. ACORN is out now.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODQyNWZlNzU0MjBiMmQ2MTAzZTNhYTc1YjhhZmFjNzY=
A side-by-side (it’s a Word doc) on the various plans, from Roy Blount’s
office: http://www2.nationalreview.com/dest/2008/09/28/paulsonsidebyside.doc
I’m sure the gang at koolente will call us rac*sts again, but good post!
http://www.correntewire.com/subprime_lending_and_minorities
Well, that’s a relief that they’re beginning to focus on the problem and not create new programs witha ll that money
yeah, myi1, i’m kinda getting use to that which is so funny if you know my life circumstances!
I don’t have a problem with encouraging minority home ownership, it’s just there are right and wrong ways of going about it …
Funny thing is in real life, I work on issues like payday lending, and cash places, and trying to get banks back into inner city areas… and I live in the ninth ward in new orleans … I live in one of those very neighborhoods and my students, are of course, quite diverse … it’s just i like my federal programs not to be pay-offs to allies like ACORN and to have them benefit the people themselves, silly me!
Dakinkat:
They didn’t accuse you, they accused all of us here at The Confluence and PUMA in general.
myiq2xu, I kinda took that as a swipe at all of us … they never look us as anything but these cardboard characters
Senior Koolentian Leah:
http://www.correntewire.com/subprime_lending_and_minorities#comment-116736
dakinkat, thank you for this post
ACORN being out now is great news.
It would be one thing if ACORN was about minority home ownership. But at this point when I see the word ACORN, I think barry brown shirt .Trying to give them 20 % of this bailout was not about helping minority home ownership.IMO
ACORN uses it’s “good” deeds to cover-up it’s not-so-good activities and to immunize it from attack.
Did I misquote?
paper doll: my experience down here in new orelans, is that the money that is supposed to get to people that need help winds up some place else
we have a political class here that doesn’t mind diverting charity funds to their own pockets, all you have to do is look at some court cases involving relatives of our current congressman to figure out where a lot of the money meant for poor folks goes …
myiq2xu, on September 28th, 2008 at 1:23 pm Said:
Senior Koolentian Leah:
“It is precisely posts like the one you flagged, which can be found through-out the PUMAsphere, which have soured me entirely on the whateverthehellitis and the people who are part of whateverthehellitis.
——–
Aww, they’ve soured. Such integrity! They’re so deep and active, man.
well, if we’re talking about getting markets working again, it’s just simply unnecessary to add any more confusion to the process, if they consider that to be racist, so be it … where those kinds of conversations need to happen is in the process of figuring out what to do with Fannie and Freddie… if they do want to fund ‘affordable housing’ or whatever you want to call it, it needs to be a seperate plan with seperate funding and not stuck in with funding to loans underwritten with respect to normal guidelines,
ACORN is like that mobster who passes out turkeys at Thanksgiving. All the while shaking down businesses and other forms of extortion. The poor fools on the receiving end are grateful for the benevolence while the bad guys are raking in the big bucks through greed.
Holy Guacamole!:
I shit you not! That’s a quote from Jeralyn!
http://www.talkleft.com/comments/2008/9/27/22331/9194/128#128
Here’s what comes next:
“The spiraling collapse of the financial system may only intensify the quest for private investments in what is now the public sector. This flipping of public assets could be the next big phase of privatization, and it could happen even under an Obama administration, as local and state governments, starved during Bush’s two terms in office, look to bail out on public assets, employees, and responsibilities. The Republican record of neglect of basic infrastructure reads like a police blotter: levees in New Orleans, a major bridge in Minneapolis, a collapsing power grid, bursting water mains, and outdated sewage treatment plants.
Billions in private assets are now parked in “infrastructure funds” waiting for the crisis to mature and the right public assets to buy on the cheap. The first harbingers of a potential fire sale are already on the horizon. The City of Chicago has leased its major highway and Indiana its toll road. Private companies are managing major ports and bidding for control of local water systems across the country. Government jobs are also up for sale. For the first time in American history, the federal government employs more contract workers than regular employees. ”
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174981
Doncha love it?
We get attacked, and then somehow we’re wrong if we object.
Of course I can respond to the post over there because I was banned by Lambert, who has the chutzpah to come here and talk shit.
ACORN was good, until the Obama/Chicago machine took over.
If that statement takes away my progessive lib credit, suck on it, Leah.
Jeralyn is in serious need of an intervention.
IMO corruption and the inneffective use of public money should not be tolerated. The problem after the fact is the diversion of money, time and mental resources away from the far more pertinant issues, that the public depends on their public servants to forward. I guess that is why we should try to be informed and avoid these characters if possible at the outset.
Jeralyn has drank the koolaide and it’s done something to her brain
dakinikat,
Excellent post and thank you — very well-reasoned, logical and with a heaping of good old common sense.
While this will probably get me the “R” word, I’ll go ahead and say it any way, “Home ownership should be a societal goal, but, it is not a right.”
myiq, I find that most of the time lambert comes here only to promote himself, and then doesn’t stick around for the conversation. I find that annoying and frankly a bit trollish.
sm77, on September 28th, 2008 at 1:42 pm Said:
ACORN was good, until the Obama/Chicago machine took over.
I think that’s true for quite a number of organizations! LOL! ( laughing to keep from crying )
GCH:
Most of his posts over there are not original work but just “linky goodness” to somebody else’s hard work.
I think DakiniKat’s posts have been very educational and not r*cist as mandos had implied.
I’m Latino & I never felt any discriminatory remarks were made at all, and if that were to be the case, I’d be the first one, as many COnflucians would, to oppose it.
WE HAVE FLAWED economic systems and both parties made mistakes.
It’s time to grow a friggin spine and FIX the problem. Our current DNC leaders are running from blame. I wish some of these so called prog-lib bloggers would take off the Kool-Aid I.V. for a second and stand behind the fairest solution to everyday people affected by it, Hillary’s H.O.L.C. proposal.
If that’s a sin for saying that, then I’ll happily burn hell.
we call ACORN ‘rent-a-protestor’ down here in new orleans
and thank you …
excuse my french but mandos is a fucking idiot (remember his flag post fiasco?) His writing drips of just the kind of elitism we come to expect from his ilk
well if you don’t have the energy, why bother at all….jeez. the image I have of him is the hedonismbot on Futurama. if you’re not familiar, here’s a pic
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t62/kookamachanga/hedonismbot800-1.jpg
dakinkat:
If we thought your posts were rac*st, we would be the first to call you out.
But according to Mandos, all white people are . . . well, you know.
MYIQ: Mandos assumed that all Conflucians are white.
I am not white.
myiq2xu
Anyone who thinks Obama is not a career politician has left the reality based community and has no business commenting on anything
It just makes you wonder what these guys have in mind once in office. It certainly is not an as yet totally clear picture.
I love those that want to set the ‘progressive’, ‘liberal’ or even ‘feminist’ agenda and woe to those who deviate.
I think it is called bullying and shows a lack of self confidence. People feel differently towards different issues, I thought diversity was something to celebrate not punish.
And BTW to all the Obamacrats that say we do not stick together, we democrats do, but we have limits to what we will tolerate. Stop the abuse and realise there are consequences for the choices you have made.
GCH:
Certain people remind me of the stereotypical “pointy-headed liberal”
They live in an academic world of theories and talk about stuff using terms like “meta” but couldn’t organize a trip to Starbucks
sm77: I like the HOLC too, as stated above, I think we need to make every attempt to keep folks in their houses if possible and that’s going to include homeowners of every flavor … we just have to have some reasonable minimal standards that should be race neutral and based on ability to pay the loan … otherwise the entire process starts all over again
As for my understanding of what’s going on – from both Krugman and Kevin Philips – both parties bear responsibility. One cannot forget that it was Bushco who wanted to deregulate anything that was not nailed down. And I noticed B0 is inclined the same way – which explains his receiving more Wall Street contributions as an unknown that W did as incumbent in 2004.
I also remember that Clinton too said recently that Democrats in congress didn’t listen to him about regulating Fannie and Freddie more. Dunno how much was ideology, political interest , corruption – all three – but they threw caution to the wind. Which is too bad, because now they compromised a righteous program that could have worked if handled more responsibly.
As for B0 supporters accusing opponents of racism, the sky is up, the earth is down, what else is new?
Making loans to people who can’t afford to pay them is asking for trouble
Thank you Dakinkat for bringing clarity to a muddy process … I deeply appreciate it ….
And I realise that so many people have ties and attachments to other places that have wandered off the sanity trail and are now hiking along the precipitous edges of irrationality gulch and peering over the precipice of pathology . I too have friends who have done just that .. and its troubling and puzzling , but I am still hoping to get through to some of them , but certainly not by “getting in their face”
And I also want to get word to people who have yet to make up their still sane minds as to what a danger we have in the choice of bo as a candidate .
I will be calling every local paper I know , including the Baltimore Sun , to make sure some coverage is given to the statment by the Governor of Missouri .
I also now realise why bo has avoided the townhalls
bo hates being pinned down to something he said before
Meh
You know the saying “opinions are like……….” it was created just for people that run around generalizing about a diverse group of individuals.
I really could care less about what the Obamacrats say. They lost all credibility with me during the primary cycle. They can talk and bully all the way until November and it will not change my position and all that will occur is that I will dig my heels in.
DakiniKat: EXACTLY!! You pointed out the problem and outlined WHY HOLC will work. Bailout is ineveitable, but shouldn’t have earmarks to ACORN, I agree with that.
So then WHY did Mandos & Leah infer to your post as r*cist?
This INFURIATES me.
There’s plenty of blame to go around to both parties… the problem is stopping them from adding things in there that really don’t solve any problems … let alone continue to add to the problem… I guess by saying that the democrats were also to blame, i’m a right winger and of course, we all know every one that doesn’t agree with the party line is now a racist
from my PUMA perspective, Obama can’t go around saying that the Bush administration and McCain completely hate regulation and did nothing … it’s true they let the derivative markets go unregulated, but they were begging for more regulation of fannie and freddie and it was the dems that stopped that …
i have real trouble with hypocrisy
Robin,
That comparison from Blunt that you linked is too partisan to evaluate anything from. It doesn’t spell out any details of the oversight plan. That is what I want to see.
sm77: it was yesterday’s post they disliked … although we got a hit and run earlier directed at MyIQ2xu …
Obama on msnbc , he is rallying in Detroit using his honed skills in Alinsky agitation and voter registration. God help us.
Do you think he blames dems and even many in the public for the financial problems. No, it is only Wall Street. He NOW wants oversight.
myiq2xu,
From my observations, Leah has been “sour” since long before puma existed.
agreed, Bostonboomer
I attract that kind of attention for some reason
myiq2xu,
Ha ha. Jerelyn thinks that being a community organizer is not “politics?” LOL!
You know I never thought she was all that bright when I used to see her on MSNBC talking about O.J. and Laci Peterson. But she is way more ignorant than I ever imagined.
sm77, they call it r@cist because dakincat had the nerve to point out that legislation aimed at getting loans for poor and minority groups was rife with corruption, fiscally unsound, and part (not all) of the problem.
dakincat nowhere said “screw the poor and the minorities, too bad.” Nor did anyone on this board. We’ve repeatedly said that discrimination in lending is bad – but that underwriting loans people can in no way afford, then mingling those loans into the stream of the general market to be traded and re-traded is a really stupid solution. Covering for the excesses and cooking the books compounded the stupidity.
dakincat is r@cist because evidently any program that has anything to do in any way with “helping” the AA community is a sacred untouchable cow that can do no wrong.
That attitude is ridiculous. It’s moronic. It’s “lalalalalalala fingers in ears” mentality. And it will do harm in the long run to programs to benefit minorities, because the general populace is going to look at this clusterfuck and come to this conclusion: “All programs to benefit the poor are corrupt, wasteful, crooked, and pointless. That corruption will inevitably be covered up by liberals by use of the r@ce card. Therefore, the sane response to such proposals in the future is to be against them, and view them with suspicion.”
These idiots don’t seem to care that by crying R@CIST! at legitimate criticisms, they are creating opposition to any and all legislation that might benefit minority communities in the future.
wow WMCB: that was a great explanation …thank you! and couldn’t agree with you more or put it better!
Gary,
Mandos was also part of that discussion on Amanda Marcotte’s post where she called us racists and attacked riverdaughter personally. Remember that one?
WMCB has just described the entire Obamabot attitude and ethos. And no matter how much Lambert and Vastleft (whose writing I admire greatly) demur, they are part of it as long as they are “tepidly” supporting Obama. A tepid vote counts the same as an enthusiastic vote, unfortunately.
WMCB: Well put. Sacred cows, indeed.
Thanks to all above explanations, particularly WMCB.
What I don’t like is that here is Dakinikat, an economist by trade, offering an explanation to the crisis and because the post is not fellatio-ing Obama, is now considered r*acist.
Meanwhile, the 2 men that benefitted mostly off the backs of this crisis are 2 of Obama’s advisers.
These are the many reasons why I am a proud PUMA.
dakinikat, one of the things that grieves me the most about all of the accusations and r@ce-baiting by the fauxgressives this year is their refusal to see the long-term harm they are doing to r@ce relations in this country.
The next time an AA leader gets up and speaks out about a genuine issue of discrimination, a large portion of this country is going to turn off the TV with a disgusted “there they go again”. I’m not talking about bigots – I’m talking about sincere and good people who in the past would have lent their support, but no longer TRUST that they are being told a legitimate grievance, because they spent a year and a half being told that if they SNEEZED wrong it was a grievance.
sm: to me part of the implication in the post was that I just coughed up right wing talking points rather than actually was capable of coming to conclusions on my own … but of course, could a silly little woman economist actually do that?
wmcb: yup, sounds like they never got the boy who cried wolf read to them when they were little
This post by Arthur Silber is pretty interesting.
http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2008/09/fucking-you-to-death-blackmail-5.html
I have to admit that I have absolutely no faith whatsoever in what our so-called Democratic Leaders have worked out with Bush.
May I add that it is my belief that the crux of the matter is an underlying unconcern for minorities in reality. No practical examination of what works, what will right wrongs. There is no real focus on what will in truth HELP those communities. The root of this problem is that they care what makes THEM FEEL better as progressives. They do not really want to address the rotten tooth, they just want some platitudinal Lortab so they don’t have to feel it throbbing.
bostonboomer, that’s all I’ve seen so far on the plan. I’m sure there will be plenty soon from all sides.
I thought it was interesting, though, that ACORN is out.
I had to make a new post at Klownhaus:
http://myiq2xu.wordpress.com/2008/09/28/cognitive-dissonance-thy-name-is-obama-supporter/
Obama’s ACORN connection
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdtSacytM3I
……………………………………………….
Who benefits from ACORN?
myiq2xu, i don’t think the democrats are in danger of being snookered at all … I think they want to get the deal done as soon as possible before any one starts realizing how deeply they were part of the problem too …
I still can’t see how any of the MSM can put up those nonsense statements Obama makes about Bush not supporting any regulation with all evidence to the contrary out there in 2005 concerning freddie and fannie
I couldn’t care less what some hypocritical Obot thinks about me.
And if you’ve ever wondered what it was like in the 60’s and early 70’s, you’re seeing a thin sliver of it now. Back then, the overwhelming majority of us began as college students who had vague but high ideals of ending a war, helping the environment, stopping poverty, and advancing rights for women, blacks, and American Indians. Most of us quickly found ourselves labelled something; we became ‘tools of the establishment’ if we didn’t like violent protests, we became ’sellouts’ if we got married or tried to take college seriously or got a job, we became ‘uptight’ if we rejected LSD, we became ‘Jesus freaks’ if we found religion, we became ‘traitors to the cause’ if we didn’t pleasure the men on demand, and on and on. Any attempt at moderation or reason revealed a group that condemned you, and we all lost our way. This may be over reach, but I have that same gut feeling about our progressive movement today.
dakinkat:
I getting tired of the premise that everything the rightwing ever says must be wrong.
We see this all the time. While I don’t agree with them on ideology, facts are facts.
bostonboomer, amanda marcotte is a vile, lying, opportunist, so that doesn’t surprise me.
garychapelhill, on September 28th, 2008 at 1:56 pm Said:
excuse my french but mandos is a fucking idiot (remember his flag post fiasco?) His writing drips of just the kind of elitism we come to expect from his ilk
“If I had the energy, I could do a sentence-by-sentence deconstruction of it, but you’d all get bored, as would I”
well if you don’t have the energy, why bother at all….jeez.
————————
Gary, let me translate that Mando’s characters comment:
“I bloviate, therefore I am.”
marcotte was the one who was pushing the lie that Murphy is a republican, she is so vile that even John Edwards didn’t want to have anything to do with her
WMCB, on September 28th, 2008 at 2:46 pm Said:
. The next time an AA leader gets up and speaks out about a genuine issue of discrimination, a large portion of this country is going to turn off the TV with a disgusted “there they go again”.
Indeed. And I think that’s part of the plan…. in effect , Barry is the AA worse nightmare .
Giving people loans who couldn’t afford them is one part of this…but Wall St went further . They bundled those lousy loans together and created ” investments ” that were then sold around the world like they were worth something…. The Press are, of course , now blaming all this on the people who took out the loans ( being told to by pros ) But if it was just that, it wouldn’t be so bad.
Here’s the money quote from Mandos:
Gee, maybe that has something to do with getting called rac*st over and over and over.
http://www.correntewire.com/subprime_lending_and_minorities
Fannie and Freddie bundled those loans …
Check this out:
Remember when Obama was in the WH meeting and (according to McCain) said something that led to a shouting match? Apparently he got his talking points direct from a Goldman-Sachs representative.
_______________________________
http://chicagoagainstobama.wordpress.com/
When Sen. Barack Obama was given the floor to speak during White House negotiations, according to White House aides, he did so raising concerns about a House Republican alternative to the Paulson/Bernanke $700 billion bailout. But those concerns weren’t necessarily his, as he was not aware of the GOP plan before reviewing notes provided him by Paulson loyalists in Treasury prior to entering the meeting.
According to an Obama campaign source, the notes were passed to Obama via senior aides traveling with him, who had been emailed the document via a current Goldman Sachs employee and Wall Street fundraiser for the Obama campaign. “It was made clear that the memo was from ‘friends’ and was reliable,” says the campaign source.
The memo allowed Obama and his fellow Democrats to box in Republican attendees and essentially took what President Bush had billed as a negotiating meeting off the rails.
____________________________
It comes from the American Spectator, so take it with a grain of salt, I guess–although I dont know whom to trust anymore.
So what he is saying is that he is more prone to inject race into a discussion even when he knows it is bullshit? sounds to me like he’s the one that is tone deaf…and perhaps a bit sensitive??? poor dear..bless his heart.
Here is the Amanda Marcotte post that has Mandos’ comments on it. He actually kind of half-heartedly defended us. That was then, this is now, I guess.
http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/pumas_are_swiftboats_darragh_murphy/
dakinikat: I mentioned something early this a.m. about the proposed solution Cong. came up with. Someone mentioned the thing about not helping people who may go to foreclosure.
What was the legislation passed in (?) April that was supposed to help those individuals out? Wasn’t that a thing to get the folks with ARM’s into fixed rate mortgages or something similar?
As I said in that post, there’s been too many financial crises to keep up with the legislative fixes.
dakinikat, on September 28th, 2008 at 3:09 pm Said:
Fannie and Freddie bundled those loans …
Ah! Thank you for that info. I knew they were bundled,
but I didn’t know it was Fannie and Freddie!! …Interestring
I can’t remember any legislation in the last year that was to help home owners…just lenders and home builders . In fact do we know is there anything in this bail out to help home owners hanging on now?
Robin,
I’m glad ACORN is out, but it never surprises me when Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid roll over for the Repubs. That’s why I’m worried about the oversight provisions. Heaven forbid these ruling class a-holes should let us proles look at the bill before they vote on it. But I don’t expect any serious oversight except to protect the investments of the ruling class.
Gary,
If I recall correctly, Mandos is all of about 23. Somehow I don’t think he knows much about any of this, including the history of racism in this country.
23!!! I shouldn’t make fun of children….
BB:
Harry and Nancy don’t “roll over” for the GOP
They are playing on the same side (and it ain’t ours)
BTW – Mandos is Canadian, but considers himself an expert on US politics and rac*sm
Like all bad academics, Mandos tries to win arguments with inscrutable writing loaded with jargon
Fredster: no, that’s part of the problem, house prices will continue to fall if these home loans can’t be renegotiated … that’s why the suggestion of an agency to buy the securities and try to renegotiate some of the loans as well as give bankruptcy judges the ability to reset terms of those loans … none of the parties involved in these negotiations seem keen on that… they are more interested in bailing out the banks on a case by case base … expensive tactic, does nothing to solve the systemic problem
That’s right. I forgot Mandos is Canadian.
As for Harry and Nancy, yes I understand they are all on the same side, but it certainly looks to me as if Wall Street is pushing for the Dems this year. Some Republicans did try to bring this problem up over the past two years.
he’s quite honest though. In that quote I put up he admits he is listless and boring. That’s nice of him to warn his readers like that.
They want a Left site as a reference? Here’s info from The World Socialist Web Site
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/sep2008/dsch-s24.shtml
……Senator Schumer raised $12,928,000 in the 2003-2008 election cycle, according to the CPR. His top five industries for campaign cash were securities and investment, lawyers and law firms, real estate, miscellaneous finance and commercial banks, from which he netted a total of $3,937,000. His top five contributing firms were Citigroup, UBS, Paul Weiss et al, Kasowitz, Benson et al and Metlife, which funneled a total of $271,000 to his campaigns.
In the course of his political career, Senator Dodd has raised $43,344,000. In the 2003-2008 election cycle his top five industries for campaign funds were securities and investment ($4,268,000), lawyers and law firms, insurance, real estate and commercial banks, for a total of $9,826,000. His top five contributing firms were Citigroup, SAC Capital Partners, United Technologies, Royal Bank of Scotland and the insurance giant (taken over by the government earlier this month) American International Group. His total take from these firms was $1,315,000…….
DakiniKat: (*^(%^(&%!!!!!!!!!!!! Smart, yet a woman. Why is that a friggin crime?
You know I’m on your side – and I’m more than thankful for your insight.
The problem is, as you say, that helping lower-income minorities is a GREAT THING, but the systems in place must be supportive, not predatory.
My dad & mom work at least 2 jobs since I could remember, bought their first home (a triple-decker) in Massachusetts in 1978 by scrimping and saving for the down payment. Both of them are immigrants. They financed the house through the credit union at one of the factories they worked at. They rented 2 apts above us which paid off the mortgage and were able to pay off the house a few years before their divorce in 1987.
What helped them was the industry boom in the cables/wires factory (which is what they made at the factory they both worked at) and it helped them work more & make more money to get that down payment in.
in 1990s, my ex-hubby and I put down a 15K down payment for our house which we financed about 70K. When we divorced, we sold the house at a very small profit and paid off the mortgage with that.
Now as a single mom, I’ve rented and had the opportunity to buy here in Tampa but I was scared to get myself in a bind with the housing bubble. My neighbor offered to sell me her house next door (I live in a rented 2 bedroom bungalow style and her house is a newer & bigger home) , but I was scared despite having the money to put a down payment and God knows I need the space with an elderly/sick parent to take of PLUS the PUMA cub. I’ll keep renting until either I win the lottery or make enough to put at least 20-30% down like mom & dad did.
The industries that helped my mom & dad (credit union banks) are dwindling in the USA. So people who want to buy a home depended on the Fannie Maes/FreddieMacs to help them out. My parents’ credit union never ripped them off with ARMs or any of that stuff.
I’ll keep renting for now.
Are y’all sure we shouldn’t just vote straight Dem ticket? I’m a liberal. The entire 35 year conservative movement, which coincidentally corresponds with my entire lifetime, is blowing up like fireworks on the 4th of July. It’s hard not to say, the Repubs need a time out. They deserve to be sent in the corner until they get a clue.
my hope is the get the wording “troubled assets’ out of the plan .. that could mean anything …
that’s why an agency, specifically empowered to buy mortgage-related assets would be better … they could unwind the bundles and actually see what parts are can be salvaged now, and which need to be placed in tranches to be released later AND then see the actual bad stuff and if it could be renegotiated…
‘troubled assets’ could mean loans to Iraq or anything, really
bostonboomer, it’s such a crazy situation, having Reid, Pelosi, Paulson and Bush on one side and house Rs on the other, and who knows what is really going on. It’s hard to tell if there are any good guys in this.
dakinikat, on September 28th, 2008 at 3:24 pm Said:
You are exactly right. Everything rests on the worth of the houses….and people staying in them . If house prices go down because there are so many available due to foreclosures, there’s nothing to stop them from going ever more down….and creating this problem again and again. Any bail out needs to address this, or it’s just a set up for another bail out…which I would not put pass them .
masslib,
I’m willing to listen. What have the Dems done for us lately?
What makes you think Obama would govern like a Dem. I’d love to hear rational arguments. Unfortunately, he has lied and flip flopped so much that I just don’t believe anything he says anymore.
I’m definitely going to vote against Kerry, but other than that, I plan to vote for every woman I can. Markey (my rep) is not in any danger. At the moment it looks like Obama is going to win MA, so I don’t see what difference our votes are going to make in the presidential race?
Your thoughts?
I’m thinking about Swift’s “A Modest Proposal” and wondering if we can’t put the dem “leadership” in that proposal. Of course they are about 90% alcohol so that might pose a problem.
I now live in FL, MAJOR SWING STATE, so I’ll vote for any Down-ticket dem I can get, even my Rep, Kathy Castor, who I found out endorsed Obama in february after Hillary won our state.
Top of the ticket? (crickets) I haven’t decided yet, but it’s defintely a Nobama vote.
angelasmith:
That sounds like a feature, not a bug
sm77, on September 28th, 2008 at 3:25 pm Said:
….My parents’ credit union never ripped them off with ARMs or any of that stuff.
Modern Wall St is all about the rip off. In their view, there just not enough money in simple loans and waiting 30 years for 3 times the dough loaned . They can’t wait for the goose to lay a golden egg, they want a goose dinner now. IMO.
Also any Dem who endorsed Obama in February deserves the da boot …again, IMO
Well, here’s my thinking. Obama will appoint Dem’s. Dem’s have an ideology that Government can be a force of good. They don’t inheriently hate government. McCain will appoint a bipartisan cabinet, but that means at least half repub. Repub’s hate government. And, I think that makes for vast incompetence in governing. Look, if we have a dem Congress, both houses, and a Dem executive branch, the chances are the Congress will pass Dem initiatives without a fight. If McCain is Pres, we’ll still have to engage in a fight. If the Dem’s control both houses of Congress, and have the executive branch, they will likely assert themselves and have more power than the executive branch, as it should be. I don’t want the Dem’s to have anymore excuses when it comes to passing equal pay, or repealing DADT, or DOMA. With a Dem controlled government we at least have a chance at Medicare for All, etc.. I don’t know. As a liberal Dem, it’s hard to resist a fully Democratically run government. In many ways, Obama is irrelevant. Also, I was another Ginsburg on the bench, not another O’Conner, or worse.
PaperDoll, Kathy Castor is the only DC Democrat House Rep from my area. Everyone else is Rep. So what do I do? I’m tepid about it, especially after the fact she endorsed in February, but I may change my mind. I just don’t know, honestly.
Why am I in moderation?
Cuz you were talking too radical probably
I’ve seen the talking heads going on about how
we will “borrow” this money for the bailout. But I haven’t heard mention of the fact that we also print the money whenever the FED feels like it.
Trying to remember economics is hurting my head, but
weren’t there two horns to the bull: recession and inflation? Hasn’t the FED historically fought recession by playing with adding money into the money flow?– I mean besides lowering interest rates to encourage investment.
If everything starts truly f-ing up rather than default any further on our international debts, I’m just guessing the FED will flood the market with newly minted money.
Then money value goes down further and we all stuff our mattresses with it cause money’s cheaper than down.
Am I completely confused?
I don’t see that you are masslib … but maybe i don’t have the control over that button …
masslib, what evidence do you have that ANY of that will happen. In fact, from what we know about Obama’s character none of that will happen. Obama has backed away from DADT and is now campaigning with Doug Kmiec, who thinks that gay marriage threatens children, society in general, and will lead to mad gay scientists ushering in a new age of eugenics. That’s just one of MANY reasons Obama will never get my vote. EVER
Gary, it’s NOT about Obama and what he supports. I am talking about the Party controling congress and the exec branch. It will be hard for Obama to come out against his own Party.
masslib, why do you need obama? that doesn’t make sense. And I should remind you that this is not a forum for debating whether or not to vote for Obama. That debate is over.
angelasmith:
Uncle Sugar isn’t gonna pay for this by printing money.
They will issue bonds that they will sell to China and Saudi Arabia.
Masslib:
Obama will do what his puppetmasters tell him to do.
myiq, I know that’s the plan for now.
But, what’s next? Won’t some markets not want to play with us anymore?
And how good of an idea is it to sell bonds to China and Saudi Arabia?
I am truly clueless on this stuff.
Angela: When the Government borrows me, it instructs the Fed to sell bonds, the Fed sells the bonds for MONEY … so the bond holders hold the bonds and the Fed gets the money … since it’s pulling money out of the economy, this causes interest rates to go up, and less bank loans to be made … this tends to be recessionary.. you fight inflation by doing this, pulling money out of the flow of things … but it tends to dampen economic activity… if we are already having a ‘liquidity’ crisis –that means banks aren’t lending money, without offsetting actions by the Fed, this just makes things worse
so the fed does have to print money and dump it, that brings the interest rates down, but tends to create inflation and create problems for the exchange rate … the dollar gets cheaper …
problem with that is that it delutes our purchasing power, especially for things like gas …
that helpful at all?
Wexler is my representative, I will not vote for him, any democrat that gets my vote will have to earn it. But I will know who I am, no one will define me or what I care about.
Democrats for twenty years have been uncooperarative with republicans on commonsense energy policies and this IMO has put pressure on our energy options.
As long as we can purchase oil and everything is okay, fine. Unfortunately people think we are political repressionists which is counter to objectives practiced here in the US.
Everybody wants to label America as ignorant, backward and repressive, yet we are the ones that are depended on to move anything of substance forward.
I hope we will find a way to go forward with confidence in who we are. I think excluding the concervatives, who do have their own virtues, is not the right way either.
Selling bonds to a Communist and Theocratic regimes who consider women chattel are not exactly my idea of resolving the economy crisis.
One thing about Kathy Castor in my district is that she’s put together these local programs to help families at the brink of foreclosure to get help. She’s worked on this since she was voted in 2006 – so that’s one of the reasons why I like her despite her early endorsement of Obama.
sm77,
this is what I am thinking as well. We are making some really ugly choices (perhaps out of desperation of simply poor thinking) in who we are making our bankers. How do we stand up to countries who have human rights records that are horrific, if we are continually saying “hey man, spare a dime?”
sm77:
We sell them the bonds because they have the money to buy them.
They have the money because we buy what they are selling.
United Arab Emirates gave citibank the money to buy Merril Lynch essentially … those sov. wealth funds are really getting my research attention these days …
dakinlat: you state that the part of this that can clearly be laid at the feet of Bush and Greenspan is the part having to do with loans to buyers who can not reasonably repay. You mention Freddie and Fannie as major players here. Yet as this crisis has unfolded we have seen some pretty strong evidence that Republicans in 2005 and 06 were very much trying to rein in FF. We see clips of committee hearings in which Republican lawmakers are clearly pushing for regulation and Dems (Waters, Frank, Dodd) are brushing off as totally unnecessary any such regulation. Please comment.
dakinkat,
thanks for the help. I’m making a diagram to help me
“get” this.
We sell bonds to foreign nations- or any takers(apparently with no screening for the applicants on human rights issues,etc.– purely an economic criteria).
Their purchase injects money into our economy.
This boosts liquidity into the market place?
Do I have it right so far?
AMEN. Touché.
jangles: no the nonregulation of the derivatives market was the bush/greenspan problem…that’s what i cover here
the first of the lax underwriting problems was rooted in Fannie and Freddie which was what I discussed in my post yesterday …the one we were talking about upthread that got me and the confluence called racist by corrente
angela no: if the fed purchases the bonds back… that puts money in the market, if the fed sells the bonds, it takes money out of the market
dakinikat,
gotcha. thanks.
Maybe we should raise the money a different way.
How much could we get for Texas?
lol, myiq2xu, that’s what Napolean did to fund his little wars and misadventures!
masslib
I used to think the same re: competence/incompetence and trust/mistrust in government. Until I saw what created this crisis and I listened to the House GOP-ers talk. Right now, on this issue, they sounded saner than all the Dems who sided with Bush.
I’ll always bet on Clinton knowing economy. He said he wanted Freddie and Fannie regulated as well.
I also saw that while B0 copies Hillary’s words in the debate, her HOLC proposal was willfully ignored.
And heard B0 recently saying he won’t implement ANYTHING he promised this campaign.
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/the-mother-of-all-flip-flops/
So, if I learned anything during this political year, is that whatever I believed about Democrats until now is BS and I need to start from scratch. The whole “downticket” notion bears reexamination AFAIC after this bailout Bush alliance.
Masslib: Saw your all Dem scenario upthread. In the past I would agree with you but definitely not now. If we had not had a Republican push back on this bailout the Dems would have given us a huge payout to Acorn and several other add ons that would have made for a very bad bailout. We should have learned our lesson with the Bush admin and the control of congress and the WH. I say never again. Make them fight it out. Also, I am sorry but now that I see the continuing unfolding of the “new politics” that is BO I say, absolutely no way. His movement is the most dangerous thing that has ever happened in this country. My God look at what is going on in MO, in PA. Look at how they are bringing suit to shut down 527s—this attack on the 1st amendment is worse than FISA because it has taken dead aim at our political life blood, out election process. If you can look at all that has happened and trust the Democratic party, you are getting very different information than I am.
From cnn:
Among the provisions of the draft bill:
* The $700 billion would be disbursed in stages, with $250 billion made available immediately for the Treasury’s use.
**********************************************
Doesn’t that put the lie to the original tale that they had to have the money NOW?
The story changes daily. How stupid do they think we are?
The Senate passed a $300 Billion mortgage bill in July. It provides for refinancing of troubled mortgages and a credit and equity infusion into Fannie and Freddie. Hilllary referenced it in her statement. So add that to this bailout and that is why some are talking about a trillion dollars. Bush promised to sign it right away but I don’t know if the money has gone out to F&F or people in foreclosure.
Masslib,
What difference will my vote make in MA? That is my main question to you.
As for your other arguments, Obama has clearly stated that he plans to appoint many Republicans, even to the cabinet. His first choice for Supreme Court is said to be Cass Sunstein, a U. of Chicago conservative who argues that Roe v. Wade is bad law and doesn’t care at all about whether it continues to protect reproductive rights.
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/09/14/the_fate_of_roe_v_wade_and_choice/
Jangles
I agree, I see Obama as dangerous, unfortunately somehow, everyone is behind him. I really hope republicans will come out to vote in full strength and crush him.
myiq2xu,
Why not throw in Mississippi and Alabama? Delaware maybe?
Republicans were in control of Congress in 2005 and 2006.
Democrats can’t be blamed for what happened in Congress before they took it a year and a half ago.
The Republicans have put out a lot of propaganda about this, but they controlled Congress from 1995 to 2007, and they are responsible for what was done or not done.
Why am I in moderation?
Just some guy who lives in Barry’s neighborhood?
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-ayers-weatherman-terrorist-attack-as-it-might-have-happened/
Parentofed: Your comment about the 60’s rings so many bells for me. It is that history of running amok and over the line that brought us Ronald Reagan—remember those free speech riots on UC campuses? I want change; I want greater equity for all but I know when the left goes bonkers on these things, there is a thermadorian reaction and we do not progress, we regress.
plural:
Evil thoughts.
Naughty, naughty!
plural: you’re not in moderation.
Even Bill Clinton has acknowledged that his calls for Fannie and Freddie to be more regulated were blocked by the Dems and not the repubs …. the dems blocked passage of the regulations
If the Dems, over the last two years would’ve offered up regulation, i’m sure it would’ve passed and they could’ve offered up regulation over the credit derivatives market …
Plural: The initial legislation initiatives to rein in FF came from President Clinton and were resisted by a combination of Repubs and Dems. The report to congress on Reins was after the Dem take-over in 2006. Barney Frank was the chair of the committee hearing where the regulator report on Reins was so devastating and it was the regulator with the message who became the target. No, the Republicans did not control things at that time and that early intervention could have made this crisis far easier to manage. Watch the video clips they were here and at NO Q yesterday.
This problem was created by both the Dems and the Repubs in Washington DC. They both share the blame which means they owe it to the taxpayers/voters to do the right thing this time!
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/28/obama-mccain-gets-credit-wall-street-bailout
Obama has singlehandedly saved us.
I don’t know what Bill said about Fannie and Freddie, but the Republicans controlled Congress for most of his term. If the Republicans wanted to pass something in the House, they could do it, whatever Barney Frank said.
The Senate is tougher, but nothing passed even the House.
Why do my comments say “Your comment is awaiting moderation”?
the 700 bil with 250 now, 100 at president’s discretion and 350 with approval of congress.
made me immediately think of bargaining crap where you cut the person’s request in half.
and what the hell is the point in giving bush 100 at his discretion. his discretion has clearly been to ask for the full 700. is that just another dumb ploy so the dems can snivel on about how it “wasn’t their fault” that 100 bil got spent. talk about “passing the buck”
(pun intended).
And then for the final 250 we get the congressional circus going full throtle again. lucky us.
I personally still can’t figure out why Reines isn’t in jail instead of working on the Obama campaign. This is a real clear indicator to me of the depth of crime you can get away in white collar jobs at the top. Maybe the FBI is just getting all the ammunition into the right guns, though.
I’ve been parsing this post for some time now and the subtext appears to be something of a paraphrase of Anatole France:
Bloggers in their majestic equality, forbid the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.
The classism exposed during the primary season continues, largely unexamined.
Masslib: I’m a Liberal, from a liberal family. Once upon a time I would have agreed with you, but now I believe firmly in separation of powers.
As a liberal I also believe in civil freedoms, in honest elections, in no pork, in the separation of church and state.
Now Pelosi has me nervous because she wants to censor the internet. Had Obama not voted for FISA I might have believed a little in him. So too, if the Dem convention had been less religiously inclined, if the rollcall vote had been less intimidatory, if the media was less in the tank for him (why?)….
…if the primaries had been less fraudulent…if he hadn’t trashed the Clintons….if the Party hadn’t trashed the Clintons.
Liberals give their vote to the people and Party they TRUST.
I am on dialup and can’t watch video clips.
But the Clinton treasury people who went to Congress and asked for regulation went in 2000.
Plural,
The Republicans have managed very well blocking the Democratic agenda since they have been in the minority. They did pretty well while Clinton was President too. The Dems could do the same thing. Unfortunately many Democrats regularly vote with the Republicans. And the Democratic leadership won’t stand up to the the Republican minority or the blue dog Democrats. In fact Steny Hoyer is pretty much running the House.
I’m a Democrat and I don’t know yet how I will vote on Nov. 5. I hope and pray that we can get our Party back, but the people who are running it right now are not the types of Democrats that I signed up for. I think Democrats should be for the people. They should fight for social programs. They should fight for jobs. They should be against handing over the Treasury to the richest of the rich.
myiq, you are really freaking me out today with that clown face.
can’t you be a panda bear for a while?
Parentofed-that was exactly the way it was-and is why I remained a liberal rather than becoming a leftist groupie.
sod
we’ll talk you down, don’t do it!
besides, we need your tax dollars to help pay for the bailout that Obama is now taking full credit for.
He was on the phone with Paulsen every day, dontcha know.
Don’t believe those silly Foxnews stories about him prancing around in front of a big mirror prepping for the debate. He was hard at work, saving our country from disaster.
Raines was investigated in 2006 and they found nothing criminal. He hasn’t been head of Fannie since December 2004; the person they put in then was pushed out just recently. I don’t know why Raines is blamed for everything that has happened.
Here’s an article about the investigation:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2006/02/23/investigation_of_fannie_mae_points_to_former_officials/
Didn’t Raines get away with sucking millions out of Fannie Mae?
that article isn’t exactly glowing for Raines …and it basically says he was ultimately responsible as well as responsible for a culture of arrogance …
sounds pretty harsh by my standards
Masslib: Is your remark to plural meant to imply that The Confluence is opposed to Democrats? Then why do we raise money for Democratic candidates? Who is stopping you from voting a straight Democratic ticket? You should vote your conscience like the rest of us, IMHO. Your vote for BO in MA is highly unlikely to affect the results anyway, so what’s the difference?
From my point of view the philosophy of The Confluence is that no one should tell anyone else how to vote. I sometimes get really annoyed with the stuff that gets posted here supporting McCain. If it were my blog, I might not allow. But it isn’t my blog. And I do like the free-for-all nature of this place, so I deal with it. I’m very far left politically, and my politics are probably very different from a lot of Conflucians. I’m not going to try to force them to embarace my views and I don’t like it when anyone tries to do it to me either.
__________________________________
plural:
Evil thoughts.
Naughty, naughty!
state: I don’t think you’re in moderation …
sod??
[...] September 28, 2008Stock List All you have to do is crack a book on the Great Depression to see how problems in banks and stock markets eventually transfer over to Main Street. What is needed is the least expensive and most prudent approach. … Read More… [...]
I’m a McKinney supporter who will be voting for McCain because VA is close. I hope my vote counts and there are more Virginians like me. I will vote for Mark Warner, but the top of the ticket will go to McCain/Palin. Oh, how I wish it weren’t close and I could vote for McKinney. But I’m more than willing to take one for the PUMA team.
I didn’t find anything in the moderation file or the spam filter. If anyone’s comment got lost, I’m sorry. If you can remember what you said, please try to repost.
Dakinikat-thx for another great post. And we all know you’re not r*cist!!!!
gxm17 — totally with ya …VA polls are scaring me though
I’m not voting for Obie ever. He is not a Democrat. I vote for Democrats. Hillary Rodham Clinton is a Democrat by definition. I don’t know who we’re mistaking these Dimocrats for but they are not Democrats.
Note of interest to D’Kat: in New Orleans, we lived right next door to Dollar Bill’s daughter and her husband ( the neighbors from hell – oh the stories I could tell). What I wouldn’t have given to be a wired fly on the wall during those frequent family confabs when all the Beemers, Mercedes, and Cadillac Escalades clogged our little street. My anger toward the Dollar Bills of NOLA knew few bounds: all that stealing from the poor (and middle class) to feed the appetites of the political rich. Just the sort which thrived on the ACORN dynamic.
Thanks, my moderated comments have all been released.
Please Read, Cynthia Tucker excerpt:
Kat5: looks like he’s going down in this election
Please get me out of moderation hell! I provided a link to the Cynthia Tucker article, for inquiring minds.
THANKS!
It was very critical of Raines, but they found nothing criminal.
My point is that he isn’t personally responsible for what has happened. Neither is Barney Frank. Nor whoever was head of Freddie.
The Republicans have put out a lot of stuff about their virtuous actions being blocked in Congress by the Dems in order to throw up a smokescreen and obscure the failure to use the regulations that are in effect.
this is so weird, I’m really not seeing any one in moderation … maybe boomer sees something I’m not seeing
Oh no. I’m going to string up the rope, fit it around my neck now and position the chair. We’re debating whether or not to vote for Obama now?
No, we are not. Masslib posted her interest in a Democratically controlled government. I have no idea where that is coming from or if she is actually considering top of the ticket, saying “Obama is irrelevant.” As Gary said, that debate is over. It will never be an option for me. It doesn’t even deserve the time to rebut it, we have made that abundantly clear on principle for months now.
Are we supposed to endorse anti-democratic practices in order to put people in power to vote for democratic principles and legislation? Huh?! Means justify the ends–that’s Bush all over again.
Ok here goes:
Yahoo
Good piece!
Have any of you heard Bill O’Reilly losing it over the bailout. Scary part is I agree with him.
http://themountainsage.wordpress.com/2008/09/28/video-bill-oreilly-loses-it-over-bailout/
Here’s a link I provided yesterday that is from a University of Texas professor I think is worth a look. It shows how credit worthiness got thrown out the window along other things when banks made some of their underwriting standards lax …
it is, however, no excuse for the way some of the mortgage brokers shifted poor folks and minorities into some really complex and bad mortgages but it does demonstrate some of the rationale behind the lax lending practices that go beyond the Tucker piece … i tend to get my sources from academic sources and then go from there
O/T again, but I sure the hell hope Dollar Bill ends up sharing a wall w//Edwin. No matter what happens, though, The Family will continue to enjoy all that cash. Grrrr. As they say, politics ain’t beanbag. It ain’t Wal-Mart, either.
oops, the link disappeared … but it was in my post yesterday
dakinikat,
I’ve even checked the spam file and nothing is in there.
http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Liebowitz_Housing.pdf
SM,
I love Cynthia Tucker. Isn’t she a wonderful writer? Thanks for the link.
bostonboomer: i didn’t see anything either … who knows
Been trying to e-mail my representative. The govt’s online webforms page for congressmen is either unavailable or gets stuck in an endless loading loop.
I wonder if that says something about the amount of use it’s getting.
Hmmm…no joint news conference on the bailout Bill? Pelosi sounds like she is playing politics already with her soundbytes stroknig Harry Reid’s ego.
The proposed Bill is now on the internet for everyone to read?
Reid just contradicted himself, saying the first “plan” was a non-starter.
Something tells me the Democrats are going to be pushing this themselves. Republican response/news conference should be coming up next.
For some reason, Frank, Pelosi, and Reid sure do not look very happy. What’s going on?
Plural: Raines may have done nothing legally actionable, but that hardly puts him on the side of the angels. When did the Left’s standard for ethical accountability become: “Well,s/he isn’t in jail, is s/he?”
I sometimes think that If the bar got any lower, we’d have to doze it out from nine feet under.
plural: “The Republicans have put out a lot of stuff about their virtuous actions being blocked in Congress by the Dems in order to throw up a smokescreen and obscure the failure to use the regulations that are in effect.”
Boy do I agree with you there. I guess I’m just more shocked about the Democrats like Dodd getting sweetheart deals and big donations and then being in charge of the bailout. Of course Obama is one of the biggest offenders. To me that is a conflict of interest. But both parties are horribly corrupt, let’s face it.
Funny post by Anglachel:
There appears to be a consensus among the economists – the Hanky Panky is the financial equivalent of unsafe sex, indiscriminantly spreading way too many vital fluids with no way to track what was inserted where and with what devices. The only certainty is that the taxpayer is going to be thoroughly screwed, and not in a good way.
The divergence (and there’s not much) is what is the best response to corral the public health threat. There is general consensus that there is no way to actually keep Hank from screwing around until he can be removed from the street corner he’s working. At best, we need to insist that he wear a condom to keep the worst of the Hanky Panky contained, which means oversight. He hates it, it cramps his style, some customers won’t agree to the terms, it reduces the sensations they feel and doesn’t give them the satisfaction they crave.
http://anglachelg.blogspot.com/
BostonBoomer: Cynthia’s gotten some of the KoolAid for me lately, but dammit, she nailed everything that DakiniKat is mentioning and defending.
bostonboomer, on September 28th, 2008 at 4:59 pm Said:
Masslib: Is your remark to plural meant to imply that The Confluence is opposed to Democrats?
My remark to plural? Not sure what you are talking about, but NO, of course not. Look, I am just trying to navigate through this stuff. I think Obama will be a lousy President, but the Congress can possibly pass more Dem stuff without much fight from him then McCain and McCain will have to out more Repubs in his admin then Obama. You’re right. My vote won’t matter. I am really just thinking out loud here.
I just wish they’d appoint somebody independent to write this legislation … maybe somebody in the european union could do it
If Obama become President then of course the Dem Congress will rubber stamp a lot of lousy “Dem” legislation. Then, the subsequent and inevitable 12 years of Republicans Presidents (with their newly earned majorities) will come back and repeal all of it.
Barack Obama is a dime-store answer to a Badgley Mischka-priced problem.
I am afraid that Bush, Pelosi & Co. have unleashed the whirlwind by putting all this out in public, asking for public approval, and doing a dreadful job of explaining it.
Boston, i am certianly not trying to force anyone to support my views. i am just trying to think this through, and have a little conversation here. I am wondering aloud. I don’t mean to insult anyone.
By the way, one thing we must do is not let a half-baked, private insurance health plan pass if the Dem’s take the whole enchilada. I was talking to my Dad today. He said if that happens we can count on it lasting for the next 20-30 years. We need singlepayer/Medicare for All. Anything less will be worse than doing nothing at all, because ultimately it will halt any real reform, ie acknowledging health insurance is a MARKET FAILURE and moving to a single payer system.
This McClatchy guy on Cspan is making sense.
The govt. is buying assets, not just throwing money at Wall Street people who already have too much of it.
But if the Wall Street firms go down, we all go with them.
well, the questions remain … what assets and what are they going to do with them?
and what about the underlying liabilities? Do they get to renegotiate terms or what?
It’s all on the internet, so they say, and you can read it.
I think that’s what they’ve been negotiating about.
Quite frankly we may all just be Fck’d. If Obaaama wins, rubber stamps galore on stuff we DON’T want; if McCain wins, Peloser and Reid will get their panties in a wad and say “let them have whatever the republicans want.” (come to think of it, aren’t they doing that now?)
masslib,
I’m not insulted. I’m just conversing too. I know you have always had a hard time with this decision. So have I. My solution is to wait until the last minute. I don’t have a lot of control over what happens anyway.
I just wanted to make the point that this blog has not endorsed any candidate for President. We are dissatisfied with the way the Party ran the primaries and the way they treated Hillary, but no one here has advocated for voting a particular way.
Personally, knowing what I know now and with no further information, I won’t vote for Obama. I won’t vote for John Kerry either. That is something based more on his actions and nonactions in 2004 than on his support for Obama. I’m just fed up with him, and I don’t think he’s doing much for our state. Other than that, I plan to continue to vote for Democrats and I’m going to take the 30% solution to heart too.
I’m up on the chair now…goodbye cruel world.
masslib,
Single payer is the only way to go, and I’m glad we still have Hillary in the Senate to fight for something close to it.
What is your sense of how Massachusetts will go? To me it looks like BO will win, but on the other hand, his campaign staff seem to think he needs to lead by at least 6-8 points to be sure of winning anywhere. That is certainly the way it went in the primaries. I don’t know if it’s the “Bradley effect” or something skewed with the polls.
state of disbelief,
Are you OK? Please climb down from the chair. We still don’t know what is going to happen. Wait and see.
Yeah, it lousy, state. But i don’t think the Dem’s will rubberstamp Obama because these people have been waiting to take back control for a long time. Plus, Obama is running on anything. He has no agenda. there is nothing to stamp. My real fear is health care. We absolutely can’t let them tinker with some private health care scam. The road to hell is paved with good intensions. And, if the Dem’s try to pass a health care package tha doesn’t offend anyone we will not get anything worthy of our money until I am eligible for Medicare.
Masslib: Woe betide the day when thinking out loud becomes proof of insanity – we’d be all be under some institution or other. I see where you’re going with this, and in a ‘ normal’ year, hoping to see legislation enacted which hews to traditional Dem beliefs/values would be a commendable thing. That said, this election is anything but normal: a corrupted Dem leadership has sold out, even ridiculed, core constituencies; the candidate himself is a heretofore uncommitted wild card with corruption fraying his rather green edges, and he’s making some of us very, very nervous.
There’s nothing at all to indicate that a Democratic lock on Washington bodes well for any of us, most especially for the future of the party itself. And so some of us (including me) are hoping against hope that Obama is defeated. How else to gain a shot at coercing the Dem party into reclaiming its FDR roots? Why reward it for having abandoned these roots, for having endorsed sexism and misogyny and classism and ageism and dirty tricks and outright lying?
Do we really want to become that which we claim to have despised all these years? Do we really want to start justifying any and all means by holding up false ends?
bostonboomer, on September 28th, 2008 at 6:09 pm Said:
masslib,
Single payer is the only way to go, and I’m glad we still have Hillary in the Senate to fight for something close to it.
We have to push Hillary further Left. We CAN NOT allow for the Dem’s to screw up universal coverage again by invoking Hillary. We need to say no to any plan that doesn’t allow each any every one of us to opt-in to Medicare.
Masslib: who’s to say Hillary wouldn’t have more success with her agenda under a McCain presidency? We all know Obama cannot brook competition (especially from a Clinton), he cannot tolerate luster attached to any other pol. Hillary might well be checkmated, stalemated in an Obama administration.
I agree with GCH – this forum is a safe place for those of us who are purposefully choosing to not vote for Barack Obama. Many of us have come to that very painful decision of not backing the dem nominee after months of research and soul searching, so I would appreciate the thread returning to its topic…..
oh and SOD get down from that damn chair!
Given Obama’s behavior until now, and the Missouri debacle, I wonder if there will even be a congress in place after Obama is inaugurated, and if so, whether they will acquiesce to everyhting he wants out of fear.
masslib,
Given what Obama has said recently, my guess it that we may never see any kind of serious health care proposal — or any other progressive proposal — from him in the beginning of his term. He has already declared that he’s not going to introduce any new costs — and what could cost more than an aggressive health care plan? — because he has to wait until things stabilize financially.
But does anyone believe that he will have anything like a mandate he could work from, or a honeymoon period he could use to his advantage, if he waits until things stabilize?
I don’t see much hope for any real change in progressive programs under Obama, when he’s already given himself an excuse to back out of them early on, when he’d have the best chance to achieve them.
A “transformative” President? Not likely. And how likely is it that he will ever achieve what Clinton did in his term — peace and genuine prosperity?
Someone sent me to Michelle Malkin who had a link to the Bailout Plan on porkbusters.org and the House (governement) site. Neither link works. Either traffic is high or the sites are down.
BAILOUT BILL LINK AS HOUSE SITE IS DOWN
http://michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/ayo08c04_xml.pdf
Kat5, on September 28th, 2008 at 6:17 pm Said:
Masslib: who’s to say Hillary wouldn’t have more success with her agenda under a McCain presidency?
I don’t say that. Obama is irrelevant to me except that he is part of the Dem machine and that means most of his appointees will be Dem’s, and though they are not by any stretch where I am politically, they are better at governing than the Repub side, which i think is due a long time out.
I think it will be up to Hillary’s grassroots supporters to assure Hillary has a voice. She and Obama are political enemies and that’s not going to change. I am heartened to hear Obama plans to do nothing on health care because his “plan” is an abysmal failure from the start. My worry is that Wyden will try to push his crackpot plan, or the Dem’s will push something that continues to rely on the market failure that is private insurance. If they do that, if they use federal dollars to prop up the insurance companies in the name of reform, we won’t see real reform as I said, until I am eligible for Medicare.
“A “transformative” President? Not likely.” Impossible. No such thing. Carter tried that and we all know how that worked out.
“And how likely is it that he will ever achieve what Clinton did in his term — peace and genuine prosperity?” Not at all likely. Impossible.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/09/28/ayo08c04_xml.pdf
the bailout plan proposed
New and Improved Obama free post above
Every time I see that TARP word … I think of the blue tarps they gave us here in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina … they weren’t very substantial and most of the blew away after Rita.
So my ballots will arrive at the end of this week and I unfortunately have no incumbent up or down ticket to vote against. I absolutely and fundamentally disagree with the bail out, and do believe this crisis was triggered by Congress, their coddling of Freddie and Fannie to fund mortgages for people who could not afford to pay for them while still funding the other irresponsible Political Party’s stupid war that also cost 700 Billion so I guess the Repugs and Dems are even now and the American Tax payer’s pocketed picked for their two differing Bases. Time for a Boston Tea Party America.
My friend at work just lost 80,000 K in her 401K my close friend 50,000K .hmmmm..
plural said: “The Republicans have put out a lot of stuff about their virtuous actions being blocked in Congress by the Dems in order to throw up a smokescreen and obscure the failure to use the regulations that are in effect.”
plural….even Bill Clinton said the Democrats blocked HIS efforts to get more regulation on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Why would Bill Clinton say that if it weren’t true?
I heard him and saw him say it…I’ll trust what Bill Clinton had to say.
MountainSage
Hey dakinikat; Here’s the one I was talking about, but guess it bit the dust.
http://tinyurl.com/4ruj8h