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Friday: Freaky Friday

Ayayayay!  Today is going to be one of those days.  The Dean Democrats are up to no good.  Heidi Li has an important post up about the mutual backscratching going on in the DNC.  It turns out that Obama will select Howard Dean’s successor, which is expected to be – Howard Dean.  None of that pesky election stuff.  So outre.

Since the DNC claims that the reason Senator Obama gets to dictate who the next DNC chair is, it is ever more important for the medium and long term health of the Democratic Party that Senator Obama not win this election. Here’s the passage from the CQ Politics story that informs us that Senator Obama’s internal party is based on the assumption he will win the general election, and that if he does win the DNC will once again hold a fake election rather than a real vote for the position of chair:

‘“We expect Sen. Obama to be in the White House, and it’ll be his decision as to who’ll be nominated” to succeed Dean, said Stacie Paxton, national press secretary for the DNC.

If Obama is elected, he will designate his choice for the chairmanship, and DNC members would be expected to ratify his decision at a meeting immediately after Inauguration Day on Jan. 20.’

The story goes on to say:

‘If the Democrats do not win the White House, a special party meeting would be called for an election to be held between Jan. 1 and March 1, said DNC officials. Dean and his predecessor, Terry McAuliffe, were both elected in meetings during the month of February.’

Heidi then adds:

If this is the way the DNC wants to play this, then there is  only thing to be done by Democrats who care about seeing their Party survive the civil war that Senator Obama and Howard Dean have already brought to it. Senator Obama must not win the general election. And his defeat must come at the hands of Democrats who now realize that in the new Democratic Party way no compromise is allowed.

This incarnation of the party is extremely good at turning lifelong Democrats into temporary monkeywrenchers.  I don’t think that speaks well of Howard’s and Obama’s political skills.  Anyway, the best way to combat this is to help Heidi buy the ads in the Capital Hill newspapers and journals to let the powers that be know that we are out here and determined to make them the powers that were.  If you have $10, send it to Heidi.  Time is of the essence since because now is when the party leaders start jockeying for positions.

And now for a moment from the Madame President of our hearts in all of her wonky goodness- Hillary Clinton does the Economy:

Why, Howard, WHY couldn’t we have Hillary this year?  You media types have a lot to answer for too.  In a year when we need our best, brightest, most competent, ready-to-go leaders, you connive to give us John McCain and Barack Obama, a Product.  Was this really necessary?  Why was it so important to sideline this woman in a time of crisis in our nation’s history?   What was so damn special about Barack Obama?  How come you couldn’t see past the color of his skin to the complete absence of content in his character?

Well?  I’d like to hear some answers from the media who helped to force this decision on us.

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212 Responses

  1. Good morning! I hate to seem dense, but isn’t this the way it has always been in the Democratic party? (At least in my memory)

    I always understood that it was one of the spoils of victory; the winner of the election gets to pick the next party chairman. Clinton picked Terry M, right? If Obama wins the election, he’d be an idiot to pick anyone other than Dean, unless he picks Donna B.

    Maybe this is another one of the 99 reasons by Obama must not be elected!

  2. Thank you for this post. The video is excellent. Hillary is in a class of excellence by herself. And we have – what? – as likely POTUS?

    This is a tragedy. America needs Hillary, we know and can see that. Yet the media is dazzled by the “star” quality of BO and Sara Palin. How totally absurd. I hope the voters are more mature.

  3. janicen: What Heidi is pointing out is that it is Obama who will appoint the Chairman and his election will be a mere formality. The last time there was an election for Chairman, there were several contenders. Howard won out but I believe Simon Rosenberg and Harold Ford were in the running.
    I don’t know if a “winning” candidate picks the next chairman but Heidi seems to think this is unusual.

  4. So frustrating…reposting from downstairs – because it’s on the subject – Bill Clinton interview on Wall Street events – and media getting their panties in a bunch because he praises Hillary’s plan rather than Obama’s

    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/bill-clinton-praises-hillarys-plan-not-obamas/

  5. I am just going to say Susan Sarandon is a f*cking jerk. That’s all I’m going to say. Really, she doesn’t even deserve comment.

  6. If BO wins he picks the DNC chair, but I doubt he’ll pick Dean. He’s much more like to install his Chicago Boy who I believe uis basically running the show at this point. Dean is a total failure as a fundraiser. He doesn’t even hang out in DC. He goes back to VT every weekend.

  7. janicen and riverdaughter – It would be nice to know whether this position is one of the “spoils ” given to the elected president.

    Either way it is another reason not to elect Obama for the sake of the party. We already have so many reasons for the sake of the country.

    My question is granting Palin the “it” factor, will she be dangerous also? That’s the thing about Reagan that I gnashed my teeth over. Darn that guy was effective. And I didn’t want his policies!

    Palin strikes me as the most effective of the four candidates running.

  8. edgeofforever,

    Does Obama have a plan? All I’ve heard from him so far is attacks on McCain and blaming other people. Meanwhile, he is the candidate who was supported by Fannie, Freddie, Lemann, and the rest of the investment bankers.

  9. purplefinn, on September 19th, 2008 at 7:49 am Said:

    janicen and riverdaughter – It would be nice to know whether this position is one of the “spoils ” given to the elected president.

    Yes.

  10. To me, our dear Riverdaughter is addressing an ethical and moral dilemma for Democratic voters, but more around the edges than at its fundamentals.

    We are told that Obama won based on caucus fraud.

    We are also told to support “good guy” downticket Dems, who of necessity must, like Hillary, support Obama and expect to govern with him.

    My sense of morality tells me that he who is in league with the thief, or who expects to share the fruits of the theft, is complicit with the thief.

    Downticketers who tell you to vote for Obama and who wish to govern with him– are they not, in effect, attempting to share the fruits of a stolen nomination?

  11. I’ve always been under the impression that if the Democratic candidate wins, they get to pick the next DNC chairman. Sadly, we don’t have too much recent history to refer back to since we’ve had so few victories! I am certain that Clinton picked Terry M. It’s possible that Heidi is informing people who may not be aware that this is another power Obama will have if he is not defeated.

  12. In my memory, the President does name his own DNC chairman. I think that is what normally happens. The point is, we have to get rid of Howard Dean and Donna Brazille.

    In my opinion, our primary goal must be to make sure Obama doesn’t get elected–and not just because of what he has done to the DNC. He isn’t qualified to be President, and he would be a terrible President. I haven’t ever seen him show anything even resembling leadership. We desperately need a leader.

    I realize that Presidents can grow in office, but I haven’t seen one ounce of growth in Obama throughout his two years of campaigning. I saw tremendous growth in Hillary during the primaries. Furthermore, I see much more potential for growth in McCain and Palin. Even though I disagree with most of their policies, McCain did vote against the Bush tax cuts initially and he voted against the Cheney energy bill. Isn’t it possible that he would revert to type if he got into power?

  13. JohninCA, on September 19th, 2008 at 7:54 am Said:

    Downticketers who tell you to vote for Obama and who wish to govern with him– are they not, in effect, attempting to share the fruits of a stolen nomination?

    *********************

    “who wish to govern with him” is the key here. How do we know? Would you have a Republican president and a Republican Congress for four years?

  14. Yahoo news: “People would rather watch a football game with Barack Obama than with John McCain”

    We don’t learn do we?

  15. masslib: What did Susan Sarandon do now?

  16. UpstateNY, on September 19th, 2008 at 7:58 am Said:

    Yahoo news: “People would rather watch a football game with Barack Obama than with John McCain”

    ******************

    Let them. Ohhh I see another campaign fund raising scheme. $50.00 for a chance to watch a football game with Obama.

  17. bb, your point about Obama’s growth is excellent. It answers a question that has been lingering in the back of my mind. Why do I think Sarah Palin, with her relatively shallow CV would be a better leader than Obama with he even weaker CV?

    You have answered the question for me. It’s because I feel she will continue to grow as a person and a leader, and he will not.

  18. Sarandon, an Obama supporter, dismissed the suggestion that Hillary Clinton had been the victim of sexism during the primaries. “She wasn’t kicked around,” said Sarandon. “She’s the machine. She’s accepted more corporate money than any Republican candidate. I think she’s divisive, I think she’s entitled, and I don’t like her.”

    Afterward, in an informal Q&A session with several dozen BU students, Sarandon opined some more. Asked for her opinion of Sarah Palin, the big-screen siren paused briefly. “Ed Harris said she’s going to be a giant footnote in the annals of moose hunting, and I hope that’s true,” she told the students. “This is a do-or-die election, and the only thing that gives me hope is you guys.”

    http://www.boston.com/ae/celebrity/articles/2008/09/19/bringing_together_big_screen_royalty/

  19. [...] Riverdaughter has Hillary’s plan Bill was talking about Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Washington Wire – WSJ.com : Obama and Clinton: A Not-So-Interesting Lunch…Clinton: I support ObamaBill Clinton and Barack: Too Alike to Like Each Other?Clinton, Biden to take Democrats’ stage Wednesday [...]

  20. masslib, on September 19th, 2008 at 8:03 am Said:

    Asked for her opinion of Sarah Palin, the big-screen siren paused briefly. “Ed Harris said she’s going to be a giant footnote in the annals of moose hunting, and I hope that’s true,” she told the students. “This is a do-or-die election, and the only thing that gives me hope is you guys.
    *********************

    Somehow Sarandon’s comments brought back to mind “Hockey Moms Against Sarah Palin”

    ”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URIypadX3n0

  21. Hello, everybody… I am in Paris!!! The land of the ignored Pumas. On arrival, I was reminded of the Obamamania: A big poster of him advertising for a radio station political program, all over Paris. YERK!

    Anyway. I was listening to Lady Rothchild on the JSND opening page. This Lady is a Puma through and through. That a big fundraising possibility/contact for us and the documentaries. She was on the plateform committee and just resigned. I like her!!!

  22. FrenchNail, good to hear from you!

  23. “who wish to govern with him” is the key here. How do we know?

    Let me give my gold standard for independence from a President of one’s own party.

    Once upon a time, before Watergate, a highly conservative and anti-communist Republican congressman named John Schmitz was asked if he minded that Nixon was going to China. He replied: “I didn’t care that Nixon went to China, I was only upset that he came back.

    Are there any Dem candidates for national office, or *any* office, that could meet that standard vis-a-vis Obama?

  24. Bonjour French Nail!

  25. JohninCA, on September 19th, 2008 at 8:13 am Said:

    Once upon a time, before Watergate, a highly conservative and anti-communist Republican congressman named John Schmitz was asked if he minded that Nixon was going to China. He replied: “I didn’t care that Nixon went to China, I was only upset that he came back.”

    Are there any Dem candidates for national office, or *any* office, that could meet that standard vis-a-vis Obama?

    ******************

    Hopefully Obama will never attain the presidency, and we will never know.

  26. JohninCA, on September 19th, 2008 at 7:54 am Said:
    (respectfully snipped)
    Downticketers who tell you to vote for Obama and who wish to govern with him– are they not, in effect, attempting to share the fruits of a stolen nomination?

    JohninCA, I tend to agree with you. Mark Warner will get my vote but only because he did a great job as governor. I’m attracted to the 30% idea and having been trying to come to grips with the idea of voting for women regardless of political party. I just don’t know if I can do it. But I’m going to give it a try. I will definitely vote McCain/Palin if Virginia is close.

  27. We are almost at three million!

  28. purplefinn, on September 19th, 2008 at 7:49 am Said:
    (respectfully snipped) My question is granting Palin the “it” factor, will she be dangerous also? That’s the thing about Reagan that I gnashed my teeth over. Darn that guy was effective. And I didn’t want his policies!
    Palin strikes me as the most effective of the four candidates running.

    She sure seems to be a natural. Only time will tell whether political fortune will favor her. It looks to me like someone’s trying to take her out with this stupid, and IMO frivolous, troopergate investigation. And then the fact that this little jerk who hacked her personal email is getting no media coverage. (Is he even going to be charged?) It sure looks to me like people in high places want to take her down. As much as I disagree with her on many issues, I hope they don’t succeed.

  29. Doing my best Dr Evil impression (including fly hands).

    3 meeeleeon hits.

    Hoo Hoo Ha Ha!

  30. We’re definitely going to hit 3 million today. What should we do to celebrate?

  31. The son of a Tennesee state rep is suspected of hacking into Sarah Palin’s e-mail. David Krenell, son of Mike Krenell, is a 20 year old student at the U. of Tenn. – Knoxville.

    http://www.postchronicle.com/news/breakingnews/article_212173259.shtml

  32. BB, I always request balloons, so far no luck….

    Happy 3 Million, Confluence!

  33. bboomer, I don’t buy that story. i think it is a cover up. the thing about him using her high school and zip code to get her password reset sounds like bs to me. I believe that the obama people are ultimately behind it. you should have seen how rabid his supporters (including gloria alred) were on greta the other night. they wanted to make it about her using her personal email for business…totally absurd.

  34. How about celebrating by asking our favorite news medium what the scoop is on “The son of a Tennesee state rep is suspected of hacking into Sarah Palin’s e-mail. David Krenell, son of Mike Krenell, is a 20 year old student at the U. of Tenn. – Knoxville.”

    Also we could post on other blogs the link you gave us, BB.

  35. In answer to the questions at the end of the post—because the people in power on top, who were sane enough to see that this was going to be a time of total collapse, wanted to make this a collapse that would benefit them as it brought in a time of darkness for everyone else.

    The thing is that everything will have been figured out one way or another by the time we have the election, so I doubt that either candidate will have any advantage in making a difference in how economic things will go for the idiotic narcissists.

  36. Isn’t Sarah the one that would have to press charges on the hacking?

    Every now and then, I’m going to come out and be another voice making the case for voting McCain/Palin. We have to do whatever it takes to insure Obama doesn’t win-and then some.

    I don’t like seeing these polls level out.

    I don’t like voting for a Republican anymore than anyone here. I would love to keep my slate clean. But this is a national emergency. This is a time for powerful measures.

    At least there are a few things to like about those two.
    And for the frivolous at heart (me), there’s McCain singing Streisand.

  37. Gary,

    I can’t believe that the Obama campaign would have done this directly. I can believe that someone at DK would do it though. What do you think really happened?

  38. So Jeralyn over at TalkLeft is still on her “All Palin, all the time” marathon. I may have to do some research to see if there’s sufficient data to support my theory that’s she officially flipped her lid. Thank god TChris and BTD are posting, if not they’d need to rename the site TalkPalin. Poor thing. All we can do is watch.

  39. FOX NEWS JUST REPORTED

    This just in from the Obama campaign:

    Obama issues a statement that he is instrucing his team of economic advisers (his team includes some of the crooks that are part of the problem) to NOT make anymore comments about the economy until and after there is a proposal released from the current administration and congress come up with a plan first.

    You can’t make stuff like that up!! LOL!

    Obama doesn’t know what to do in a crisis and is waiting for other people to make the decision before he acts. That’s not being a leader. That’s being a follower.

    Obama copntinues to show NO leadership on this issue.

    He is ALL talk!

    Obama wants to vote present on the economy.

    Hey Obama, a President and Commander-In-Chief can’t vote present. They have to make EXECUTIVE decisions. They have to lead.

    No wonder Obama is out of touch with America and is out of touch with the duties of what a POTUS must do: LEAD

    Meanwhile, John McCain will be releasing a plan today and sharing withthe American people what he would do as President to help get the economy back on track and maintain stability in the markets for the long term. McCain will be speaking shortly on Obama’s decision to vote present on the economic crisis. I hope he nails Obama!

    GO MCCAIN!!

    McCain is showing leadership during this crisis. John McCain gets it. Obama is voting present, again.

    Spread the word on this!

    McCain-Palin ‘08
    Hillary ‘12

  40. Yikes. I went over to TM to post the Palin email information on a Palin thread. Reading the comments there, I can’t even log in. Low, very low.

  41. Gary,

    I am so angry at women like Gloria Allred and Gloria Steinem. Even Erika Jong, who was enraged about the treatment of Hillary, is now supporting Obama and trashing Palin. It’s starting to look like we are going to have to start a new women’s movement as well as a new Democratic party. Ultimately, it’s all about class and especially elitism. Obama is one of them because he went to Columbia and Harvard.

    And speaking of Columbia, I wish someone would dig into Obama’s record at Columbia, because he is definitely hiding something there.

  42. The thought of 4 years of both Obama and Dean have set my hair on fire! My vote goes to the other two for no other reason. And what the press is doing to Sarah Palin is disgusting. As a lifelong Democrat, I too will be going outside my party and voting McCain. This treachery must be stopped cold somehow. This is all we have left.

  43. ok, reading upthread. I officially hate Susan Sarandon now. You don’t like Hillary? Guess what you idiot (who obviously doesn’t bother to do any research to find out that Obama is equally “corporate-owned”)

    WE DON’T GIVE A DAMN WHAT YOU THINK!

    Poisoning young minds. Boycott Sarandon movies!

  44. Fox was covering the email hacking, says it is a federal crime to hack into email. Bill Clinton likes Sarah ” don’t underestimate her”. Sarah says Hillaary & I may not agree on policy, but I admire her strengths” . its time to back away from obambi ( my thoughts)

  45. I haven’t been watching the news on TV lately -but for some reason I watched CBS last night – they tried to make Hill the villain in the Iran meeting saying that Palin was “disinvited” because of Clinton. I honestly thought that whole thing was over since Clinton let them know she wouldn’t be there last week.
    Now they are really pushing the troopergate thing – what’s good for the goose is good for the gander – the Repubs should be pushing Obama’s Iraq debacle, his not registering for the draft and the fraud and whole disenfranchisement issue at the convention.

  46. I think the fact that Susan Sarandan is supporting Obama, along with her “brilliant” remarks should be publicized far and wide. It can only help McCain. I’m sure Republicans despise her. I can’t stand her and I’m a Democrat!

  47. I took the day off today and I rarely ever get to watch the morning shows, so I have been flipping through the channels. All I have heard is economy, which in this climate is good. But why does the media not remember that Obama effed up his own home purchase by taking money from a convicted felon. I remember Obama saying it was a boneheaded thing to do, so do we want him handling the economic affairs of our country?

    Elizabeth Edwards will be on Morning Joe.

  48. Sarah Palin and John McCain LIVE on FOX now!

  49. Thanks for the link bostonboomer. It’s so frustrating that CNN and the rest of the MSM is ignoring this story. Their political “coverage” is barely concealed propaganda. Real journalism is near impossible to find these days.

  50. janicen, I’m with you. I can’t even watch any movies she’s in. But we can always count on her for asinine remarks delivered haughty swash. She never fails in that regard.

  51. Elections always seem to get in the way of the Obamanation. Easy solution do away with them. The DNC has welcomed with open arms Chicago style corruption. I am so glad that I became an Independent months ago. In truth anyone that votes for Obama is voting for corruption.

    IronMan,
    Thanks for the info. Looks like Obama is voting “present” again, but this time it is with the economy. Way to lead O! You inspire so much confidence.

  52. Wow: watching McCain, he just slammed Bush!

    “I called for reform and Congress did nothing. This administration did nothing. Senator Obama did nothing.” People like Sen. Obama have beem gaming the system but never have done anything to confront the system…maybe just this once, he can spare us the lectures and just admit to poor judgment.”

    Go John!

  53. Is Hillary going to be at the Iran protest? Or is she going to still stay away??

  54. Pat
    As a lifelong Democrat, I too will be going outside my party and voting McCain. This treachery must be stopped cold somehow. This is all we have left.

    Me too.

    From earlier in the thread, on Palin’s it factor, I have also worried about a Palin / clinton match up in 12.
    It would be a contest of policies and who could make a better case to the voters……not the personal bashing we have today.

    Also, McCain Palin would have to seriously improve the economics, healthcare, etc. I have never seen republican policy work in my lifetime, however, things are so bad, there is mostly no place to go but up and a McCain administration might not look bad after 4 years.

  55. Where is John speaking?

  56. All the networks are carrynig McCain’s speech on the econmoy this morning. McCain is showing leadership on the economic crisis.

    McCain is taking Obama on directly!! Telling about Obama’s ties to the cronies at Fannie and Freddie.

    “In a MCCain-palin administration, there will be NO seat for these people at a policy making table. They won’t even vget past the front gate at the White House.”

    POW!!!

    “Maybe just this once, Obama could spare us the lectures and admit that he was wrong.”

    Snap!

    McCain is telling it like it is with some straight talk!!

    Obama is not ready to lead! McCain is leading!

    McCain laying out plans to deal with crisis now.

    Goal is to keep people in their homes and safegaurd financials for all Americans.

    Excellent!

    GO MCCAIN!!

  57. I think it’s hillarious that Obama is waiting for the gov’t to come up with a plan when in fact they already have and it was released this morning. Obama can’t get out of his own way. Too, too sad. and with Dean as the DNC chair for another four we can look forward to another tepid, inexperienced candidate in 2012.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122177442732653979.html?mod=special_page_campaign2008_mostpop

  58. JM is smart to come out with a very specific economic response.

    He could lose the weird little smile when he’s being sarcastic–creeps me out, but he’s doing well.

  59. “McCain did vote against the Bush tax cuts initially and he voted against the Cheney energy bill. Isn’t it possible that he would revert to type if he got into power?”

    He also is vilified by our party for McCain/Feingold; the gang of 13(?) on the judge issue, and a few other things.

    Seems to me that the as he has secured his seat as a Senator, the more he’s broken away from the “party” good ole’ boy network and gone against the grain.

  60. masslib: On Fox, he’s in Green Bay WI

  61. gxm, I’m old enough to remember the first time Susan Sarandan appeared on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. She was rude and cranky and came accross as feeling as if she was far too intelligent to waste her time on a mere talk show. You could see that Carson was irritated with her. Ever since then, I haven’t been able to stomach her.

  62. Just started listening to McCain … sounds like he got a bullet point plan. He’s on his game, has the gravitas Obama can’t manage to fake.

  63. Did he just say the Chairman of the FEC should resign?

    He meant SEC.

  64. Don’t miss Hillary’s op-ed in the New York Times today. Talk about being ahead on the issues! She’s now taking her case to the American public on the proposed HHS change in allowing those connected with providing health care to refuse treatment to women based on personal religious beliefs. Does anyone ever remember Obama taking a stand on anything? (At least taking a stand and then not turning around and saying the opposite because he thought it was politically convenient.) Hillary is a fearless feminist, thank goodness.

  65. McCain speaking in Green Bay, Wisconsin this morning on the economy.

    Straight talk, you bet!!

    GO MCCAIN!!

  66. AP: “Money market fears eased”

    How dare they? O will not like it a bit.

  67. Bostonboomer
    You hit the nail on the head. I realized this myself earlier and updated my entry – no, he doesn’t have a plan, just campaign rhetoric, while Reid tries to keep the crisis going for his benefit.

  68. janicen: the very idea that Sarandon would deny the unbelievable brutality against Hillary is not only a blatant lie, but as a woman, EXTREMELY IRRESPONSIBLE. She is another one of these women who hate other women. Sarandon has used her sexuality to succeed. Hillary’s raw intelligence, without male manipulation, must threaten her. Actually, I don’t give a sh*t–I will not watch another one of her movies. I am really furious about that comment. I went to the site, and they don’t have the comments section activated or I would leave a blazing response. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

  69. yeah, upstate NY

    The lefty blogs are going to be upset. where’s the crisis that was going to deliver obama to the presidency?? please let the economy tank completely, we need it. please (this is BTD and dKos talking)

  70. grays, do you have a link?

  71. If McCain gets elected and his plans work, the democrats won’t have a chance in 2012

  72. Now JM is talking about working families and the tax code. This is great, because he has not been strong on the economy, but he is being very comprehensive and fluid here. I love how he sticks it to Obama’s pomposity and fraudulence at every opportunity. It’s so refreshing after watching everyone else kiss his butt for months.

  73. “FED should return to the job of ensuring a strong dollar.”
    “Strategy of economic growth.”
    “The Obama tax hikes will make things even worse …”

    Simplify tax code
    $500 refundable health insurance handout per family (boo hiss)

    (I disagree with the Republican way of running the economy, but JM is doing his best to sell it.)

  74. McCain is showing leadership. McCain has a strategy for economic growth.

    McCain: proposing “An Economic Recovery Plan for Working Americans that is directed to the Middle Class!!”

    I’ll give EVERY family in America a $5,000 refundable tax credit to let every family in America choose their own healthcare insurance policy and choose their own doctoer.

    Will doube the child tax credit as well!

    McCain is nailing it!!

    Go Johnny Go!!

    BOOYAH!

    What does Obama have? A #^#&^#*&# finger to the wind.

    McCain-Palin ’08
    Hillary ’12

  75. edgeoforever–Bingo! Reid believes that maintaining an economic crisis will benefit chances for Dems in the upcoming elections. It’s the Iraq war issue all over again–just keep the war going until the election, hoping people will still believe the Dems will actually do something to change the situation. Meanwhile, homeowners need help and servicemen and servicewomen continue to die in Iraq and Afghanistan. Reid needs to go–NOW!

  76. angry artist: one thing at a time. What is important is to defeat Obama and to reverse the damage of the Bush Administration. We can’t wish for McCain to fail. Country before Party is true. This country needs help. If he can make constructive changes, isn’t that the goal? Besides, we have a secret weapon. Her name is Hillary.

  77. masslib–Not good at linking on WordPress, but it’s right on the front page of the NYT in the list of today’s editorials.

  78. votermom,
    ]
    I think McCain said it would be a $5,000 (five thousand) tax refund to go toward healthcare insurance.

    And a double of the child tax credit will help, too.

    McCain-Palin is the best choice we have now for sure!

  79. The comment Sarandon made was uncalled for. It makes me really angry that this actress thinks she can call out Hillary Clinton who has done more for Americans than she ever has living her life in Hollywood. Ever since her role in Dead Man Walking, she’s had this holier than thou attitude. She needs to go away.

  80. John McCain is a true maverick!!

    God Speed McCain-Palin!!

    Thank God we can vote for McCain-Palin this year!!

  81. heh, in my Yahoo news the headline

    “Poll: More voters want to watch football with Obama”

    is now followed by

    “Most Americans believe in guardian angels, regardless of faith”

    ummhhhh

  82. Refundable tax credit not a refund.

  83. I don’t think I’ll be thanking God for McCain, thank you.

  84. I thought I heard $500 … but I’m pretty sleepy today, so I could be wrong.

    JM is being “strong & wrong” as Bill Clinton would say.

    I think/hope that a JM admin would be less corrupt than a BO admin, so I rather prefer a JM presidency .

  85. Ahhhh…son is doing homework, dog is taking a nap, I made myself some fresh coffee, the cats are who knows where, I am at the Confluence….l

    ife, just this second, is good.

  86. Hillary is a fearless feminist, thank goodness.

    grayslady, not to beat a dead actress-horse, but that is why Sarandon & Co. are so infuriating. Hillary has done more for women’s rights than any of these big mouths. SHE has been the one fighting in the trenches, taking the heat, and getting things done. And what does she receive in return from these women? Ugly disrespect. I really don’t get it.

  87. “People would rather watch a football game with Barack Obama than with John McCain”

    Oh, right- and we could eat cheeseburgers with ARUGALA on top. You betcha, ole barry’s a guy’s guy.

    But I’d definitely like to bowl against obama for big money- thinking it’d be pretty easy to bowl better than 37. Could beat that score back in Cub Scouts.

    However, would prefer not to go bike riding with this dweeb- eeesh, it’d be embarassing, and he didn’t even inflate his tires correctly the last time he was seen on a bicycle.

  88. It’s 5k. But then he wants to tax health benefits as income, I think, so…Hill wants to do that too, but only for the extremely wealthy that have non-taxable insurance that includes things like cosmetic surgery, lots of perks.

  89. yes, but the bike was not powered by non renewable energy…..

  90. Absolutely, fif – Hillary takes care of the details, follows through. In other words, she backs her talk with action, unlike the Sarandon types who only talk and look down on those who take care of the details – or “grunt work.” I’ve seen this so many times before and it still disgusts me.

    Sarandon and the new Democrats seem to only want to complain about Republicans – I think they like having victims around so that they can be the heroines/heroes. I don’t really think that they want to win because then they would have to follow through on the details – and see above. That is grunt work and they are so above that.

  91. Gary and I went to a Rufus Wainwright concert at Radio City for Valentine’s day. Susan Sarandon sat next to us. As much as I hate her politics, I still like her in movies. If you are going to continue watching movies, I think you have to be able to forget they are Obamabots. Otherwise, you will not be able to enjoy anymore movies. Practically all of Hollywood has fallen under the spell.

  92. Sarandon:

    “Ed Harris said she’s going to be a giant footnote in the annals of moose hunting, and I hope that’s true,”

    And ms. Sarandon is going to be a tiny footnote at best in the annals of hollywood.

    janicen:

    “I’m sure Republicans despise her.”

    Meh. She’s more a petty annoyance, like a pebble in your hiking shoe, or catching three red lights in a row on the way to work.

    Perhaps if she had a brain or was significant in any way she might be worth despising, but as this is not the case she’s not worth the effort to even dislike. It’s more of a sour pity, actually.

  93. I’m not pro-JM (just anti-BO) but I will say JM gives the impression of stepping up in times of crisis. I admire that and I also admire his dogged persistence, when I think of how his campaign was supposedly dead late last year.

  94. Sarandon knows little about politics. She only see things on the surface – the bullsh*t she probably watches on MSNBC and CNN. I’m sure she’s one of those people who still can’t get over Clinton’s AUMF vote. Still, the fact that she can’t even acknowledge Clinton’s accomplishments not only as a woman but as a workhorse for the Democratic Party shows her lack of judgment. But then again she’s been drinking the kool-aid since last year.

  95. I am so angry at women like Gloria Allred and Gloria Steinem. Even Erika Jong, who was enraged about the treatment of Hillary, is now supporting Obama and trashing Palin. It’s starting to look like we are going to have to start a new women’s movement as well as a new Democratic party. Ultimately, it’s all about class and especially elitism. Obama is one of them because he went to Columbia and Harvard.

    BB: I absolutely agree. So far this election cycle the Grand Uniter has used racism, sexism, ageism, & classism to divide people.

    It’s too early in the day for the frustration and rage I feel. Can you IMAGINE another 4 years of Dean running the DNC? OMG…

  96. bostonboomer,

    I suspect the primary reason for the secrecy of obama’s Columbia records may be due to the fact that Zbigniew Brezinski was a professor at Columbia at the same time as BO and “recruited” him. Remember Brezinski “recruited” Jimmy Carter, who was a one-term Governor of Georgia and then catapulted him into the presidency, much like what we are seeing with BO, except Brezinski has had 20+ years to groom BO, where he only had about 5-6 yrs. to groom Carter.

    Here’s a link that may give some insight into they why’s, who and where to your concern about BO’s lost years at Columbia:

    http://www.deepjournal.com/p/7/a/en/1497.html

  97. no big deal. there is a lot of cinema out there around the globe. and more interesting than hollywood. and with the DVD’s there is access to anything one wants and enjoys esthetically.

  98. Mawm: that is not just a Matt Damon type of stupid comment. That is a direct attack on a leader of the women’s rights movement. It is reprehensible. I don’t need to see her movies. My life will be just fine without Sarandon. And I saw Rufus in concert about a month ago, and he was amazing, but then launched into an Obama love fest on stage, talking about his great O-body. Every time I hear one of his songs now, I think of that. It just says something about someone’s entire world view.

  99. Remember on Wednesday when everything was going down on Wall street and Reid was whining, Obama had no plan and McCain’s suggestion was to fire the chairman of the SEC well guess what Hillary was doing. Together with Senator Schumer they were writing to the SEC chairman urging him to temporarily halt short-Selling of major financial institutions. Whether he listened or not, the UK did just that on Thursday. Isn’t it nice to know that there is someone who actually agreed with Hillary while she was being dismissed by others. I am not saying that they were following her suggestion it is just that someone somewhereelse was doing what Hillary was suggesting here. That is a good coincidence :wink:


    LONDON (AP) — Britain’s financial regulator said Thursday it was temporarily banning the short-selling of shares in financial companies that are listed on the London Stock Exchange.

    Short-selling, in which investors sell borrowed shares in hopes of buying them back later at a lower price, has been blamed for sending bank share prices plummeting and exacerbating turmoil in financial markets. U.S. regulators tightened rules on the practice Wednesday.

    Hector Sants, chief executive of Britain’s Financial Services Authority, said in a statement that while the agency still regards short-selling as “a legitimate investment technique in normal market conditions, the current extreme circumstances have given rise to disorderly markets.”

    London’s ban goes into effect at midnight Thursday local time and will remain in place through Jan. 16, 2009. Sants said the ban was intended to “protect the fundamental integrity and quality of markets and to guard against further instability in the financial sector.”

    The FSA said it would review the ban after 30 days and may extend it to other sectors.

    Aggressive forms of short-selling were being blamed in part for the rapid downfall of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., the No. 4 U.S. investment bank, which filed for bankruptcy protection on Monday.

    Some British politicians claimed that Britain’s biggest mortgage lender HBOS PLC also fell victim to speculators. HBOS’s share price plummeted Wednesday before it was snapped up by banking rival Lloyds TSB PLC.

    On Wednesday, opposition lawmaker Vince Cable accused hedge fund managers of “hunting in packs” to undermine the bank. Alex Salmond, the first minister of Scotland, where some 17,000 HBOS jobs are based, said Thursday he wished the clampdown on short-selling had taken place earlier.

    The FSA said it would also require investors to publicly disclose existing large bets made against financial companies. Any short position whose value exceeded 0.25 percent of the targeted company’s ordinary share base would have to be disclosed on a daily basis, the FSA said.

    The FSA said the disclosure requirement would come into effect Tuesday.

    http://tinyurl.com/4fvhnn

  100. You know, it upset me that Sarandon endorses Obama, just like it upset me that Springsteen endorses him. But I’m not developing an intense hatred for The Boss, because he hasn’t started touring college campuses engaging in juvenile, hateful, 7th grade mean-girl rhetoric against a person who’s not even in the race anymore.

    Obama brings out the worst people, and the worst in people. Matt Damon — dumb as box of rocks with all his talk about dinosaurs. Sarandon’s every word about Clinton sounds like she’s describing herself (project much Suzy?) He’s inspiring alright. “We are the worst we’ve been waiting for.”

  101. Downticket, on September 19th, 2008 at 9:48 am Said:

    Remember on Wednesday when everything was going down on Wall street and Reid was whining, Obama had no plan and McCain’s suggestion was to fire the chairman of the SEC well guess what Hillary was doing. Together with Senator Schumer they were writing to the SEC chairman urging him to temporarily halt short-Selling of major financial institutions. Whether he listened or not, the UK did just that on Thursday

    It’s happened. US did it today.

  102. What is hypocritical about people like Sarandon is that they spout the old class warfare schtick, but they and the rest of Hollywood would be some of the last people to give up their cushy lives. Obama has sold people on the idea that simply by voting for him, you are erasing racism in America, helping the poor, and essentially being cleansed of your capitalist white guilt. A very attractive position for rich Hollywood types who are always obsessing about themselves. Voting for Obama is, for them, a sort of eucharist.

  103. don’t forget whoooooopi who is scared to become a slave again?!

  104. masslib, can we have H back?

  105. Mawn, ITA. Obama’s selling indulgences and Vapidities like Sarandon are stomping all over the real humans to be first in line.

  106. wasn’t sarandon’s father a night club owner in NY? I bet his hands weren’t exactly clean. she’s a hypocrite, with a raging case of CDS

  107. oops, that should be Mawm, not Mawn!

  108. fif, I love Rufus, but I don’t think he is very smart, and I suspect he never really got an education in anything but music. What I was trying to say is that after this election, if I were to boycott every celebrity or director that made a stupid Obamanoid comment, I would have to forever turn off the TV and stop watching movies. For some reason I am able to compartmentalize them, and watch their work without thinking about them as real people. I can even watch a Mel Gibson movie. Gary is not able to do that.

  109. Actually, i should not have said that about JM’s “health” plan. I looked it up and don’t see that, but it’s a long standing repub position.

    Upstate, I wish by some grace of God we could, but I don’t think so. Not for at least four years anyway.

  110. Completely off-topic, but I thought I’d lighten up and give you guys a laugh this morning:

    So 17 year old daughter this morning greets me with no hello, no good morning, but the plaintive wail, “Why are you so obsessed with hiding the banana?????!!!”

    HUH???? Wha????? After I wiped the coffee spew from my chin, I began razzing her, “Well, ya know, your dad is a pretty good-looking guy…” She blushes and starts doing the “Ewwwww! Noooo, not parental sex!” thing. ROTFLMAO!

    Turns out that she was annoyed because every morning when she goes into the kitchen for a bite before school, she finds that I have been puttering and have stuck the bananas in a different spot – behind the cereal, on this counter, on that counter….

    She and I laughed about this all the way while taking her to school. This is going to become a stock family joke, I fear. “Mom is obsessed with hiding the banana.”

  111. Whoopi’s statement just pissed me off. It was, quite possibly, the stupidest remark of this election season. Wouldn’t the constant search for r@cism be a form of r@cism in and of itself?

  112. I have learned over the years to be thankful for the smaller things in life. Being able to come to this little oasis known as the Confluence is one of them.

    Each morning, coffee in hand, I tune in and find myself once again in the company of the nicest, brightest, compassionate, people in the blogosphere.

    So in deference to upstate, life is good for at least a few minutes out of an otherwise unsettling day.

    Thanks for the tip of the hat, upstate. And no, I have no idea what your cats are up to.

  113. I really don’t know how these idiots are even allowed to have their own television shows to project their world view on millions of people each day. People like the women on The View contribute to the dumbing down of our society. The fact that these women can express their opinions on race, religion, and politics every morning yet Hillary can’t get any respect for the work she has done amazes me. Our world would be a better place if women like Hillary, Alice Kryzan, and Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney replaced the idiots on The View and the rest of Hollywood who think they have the right and edumcation to a platform where they can spew their lies and CDS.

  114. Pat, I will be cleaning today, since I took the day off.

  115. From an AP article yesterday:

    Obama said. “In the next 47 days you can fire the whole trickle-down, on-your-own, look-the-other way crowd in Washington who has led us down this disastrous path. Don’t just get rid of one guy. Get rid of this administration. Get rid of this philosophy. Get rid of the do-nothing approach to our economic problem and put somebody in there who’s going to fight for you.”

    Personally, I think Obama has a hard time selling this line since he has accepted more money from FannieMae/FreddieMac and Wall Streeters than McCain. Obama’s real philosophy is do as I say, not do as I do. As my husband’s southern grandmother Nanny says “He must think I am three shades of stupid to buy that line.”

  116. I quit watching the View when I started thinking Elizabeth made sense, it scared me.

  117. We have to keep in mind that these people are just celebrities. Like just about everyone else, they too have the right to stupid opinions, just like many of our own loved ones. If we were to boycott them simply because of stupidity, we would be faced with missing out on some elements of true genius.

    As much as she has pissed me off, I still think that Susan Sarandon is one of the most talented actresses around. That also goes for Matt Damon.

    Like Mawm, I can compartmentalize but not so much with Mel Gibson. He is an out and out racist and I would never spend a nickel to watch him perform.

  118. Mawm:I know, I feel like I’m being backed into a smaller and smaller box all the time. There are very few channels I can watch, papers and magazines to read, people to listen to…I agree with Valhalla though. I don’t begrudge people for supporting Obama (though it’s insane), but Sarandon’s comments go so far beyond that. It’s especially disappointing because she has been actually very politically active, offering assistance to the poor, and protesting various things. When she goes to a movie set, she finds out where the local food banks are and gathers all the left over Kraft service food and makes sure it is delivered to these sites–things like that. So, for her to be so flagrantly disrespectful of Hillary, who has done so much for so long for so many is really incomprehensible. If you want to object to her corporate funding, then just say that, but her comments drip with hatred/CDS. How can she pretend to be informed, and not know that Obama is taking tons of money from corporate sources? Mind boggling.

    It’s not about her endorsement–it’s about the toxic, and destructive intent. And what is the point now? Why does she need to keep bashing Hillary–the primary is over you nit.

  119. FL Voter after hearing that ,I may watch Crimes of the Heart this morning. Pat, just another of my favorite movies.

  120. Kim: Me too and only because I am having company tonight. Since I have spent so much time on the couch this week, I really need to fluff up those pillows!

  121. I am in moderation! And Obama is down here asking me to craft his economic plan. Help!

  122. TheRealKim: lol! I know, I’ve been liking Rove, Newt, and even tolerating Rush. I am beginning to question my sanity.

  123. Pat J.

    take a cup of hot water with on full tea spoon of salt. add a few drops of tea tree oil or hydrogen peroxide …. gargle and after that sniff through one nostril and eliminate through the other a few times

    take one inch of ginger, slice it and make one cup of tea and drink it

    u will be like new and enjoy the dinner tonight

    ps. i read your post last night.

  124. I did not believe the scenario that the Democratic leadership in the House and Senate was deliberately playing a game of not doing certain things to try to manipulate a Dem victory in the presidency. Now I do believe it. It finally explains to me why Pelosi took impeachment off the table. If they impeached Bush/Cheney they would have removed the boogie man from the oval office and they would have had to actually run against themselves (Polosi would have been next in line). Now that I look back on the war funding and a host of other things, including doing something about the underlying economic crisis, I now see that the Dems were playing politics with our lives and our fortunes.

    Pat Johnson: I think you have made a great decision and a hard one. I know you have agonized over it intellectually and emotionally. But I thank you because I think you have done the best thing any of us can do in these circumstances.

  125. Pat: do you live with a comedy writer?! Seriously.

  126. I quit watching the View when I started thinking Elizabeth made sense, it scared me.

    lol.

  127. WMCB: Thanks for that little slice of life dialogue. Real cute!

  128. I don’t like what Sarandon said. I doubt she even knows anything about Obama other than how he will bring change and hope. I believe it was Sarandon that also said “not this woman” referring to Hillary. Obama has ruined many actors and musicians for me. I can’t bear to listen to Jay-z songs, Live(the lead singer was in that stupid Obama video :evil: watching Will Smith movies, George Clooney is overrated, Morgan Freeman (what was he thinking), Matt Damon also overrated, Gwyneth Paltrow, was never a fan but her support for Obama ruined a movie I was looking forward to watching and the list goes on :evil: I just find it hard to understand how anyone could support this cheating corrupt Chicago politician.

  129. wmcb: that’s cute. The little things are the best.

  130. I will ask my friend at BU if she went to hear Sarandon’s garbage. Another thing. Sarandon, by dissing Clinton, was defending Republicans. It was an absolute lie. Clinton has received more corporate funding than any Republican candidate??? Does Sarandon even know how much Obama has received from corporations or shady criminals in Chicago? She needs to do homework on her own candidate before insulting a candidate who isn’t even in the race anymore. These people do nothing to help Obama win votes. I hope there were people who walked out on her after what she said.

  131. audacity: My right ear is now plugged up. Can’t decide if this is the flu or allergies. The upside is that it makes it harder to hear Obama speak. Other than that, I am sort of functional.

    Thanks for the tip!

  132. You notice JM and BO are channeling Hill these days? Hillary said it’s a job, hire me. Now BO is saying fire those guys. They both are saying I’ll fight for you. Please. Obama, McCain, you sirs, are no Hillary Clinton.

  133. Off to Boston for the day to visit my sister–another hardcore PUMA. Then up to Maine to see my brother for the weekend–we can’t discuss politics because he is of the “you have to vote for the Party or we will go to war with Iran and it will be your fault” variety. I’ll be checking in, but need to pack and hit the road.

    luv u Conflucians.

  134. THe beauty of Susan’s statement is that star power usually hurts candidates more than it helps them. Just makes Obi look more like a rock star.

  135. fif: Looks like another beautiful NE weekend. Enjoy!!!

  136. fif, re: Sarandon’s good deeds, I have come to the conclusion this year that I have been all too ready to excuse the ugliness on “my” side and claim it is outweighed by the good they do.

    Yet I can honestly say that I have not given conservatives that same benefit of the doubt before now. There are plenty of them that are very active in charity work, etc, and do a lot to try to make the world a better place (Cindy McCain being a prime example.)

    Somehow I had been sucked into believing that any good a Republican does can be dismissed out of hand, and is not indicative of their “true nature” or some such crap. But any BAD a liberal did somehow “didn’t count”, because they were sanctified and made pure by their liberal-ness.

    I am so DONE with that attitude. Over. Done. Finis. I may still disagree on the best policies, but I am done with assuming that all that Repubs do is from an evil and selfish motive, and all that the Dems do is from some kinder purer place. It’s bullshit.

  137. what if Bush in the end has saved his legacy by choosing good people as Petraus and Bernanke and Paulson to fix his initial blunders??

    is this a possibility?? Paulson strikes as an adult with a serious and competent atitude. what do people think?

  138. fif: Have fun! The NE is beautiful this time of year. I LOVE Boston. I need to find a weekend to take the Chinatown bus or Amtrak up there to visit friends. I might be going to Maine with a few girlfriends next month. Have a great trip.

  139. Well, I heard Paulson speak at the Clinton global Initiative last year, and he struck me as an idiot. This mess could have been halted at least a year ago by bailing out the fundamentals, ie home owners, instead of now bailing out the derivatives. Would have cost us a lot less.

  140. BTW. HRC is brilliant in that clip. How can any woman watch that and not be proud to be a woman and to be allied with such female leadership. Looking at what she says and some of the things McCain has said I actually see some parallels—ensuring that CEO’s from these failed firms do not get any golden parachutes from taxpayer funds, setting up an entity to take over the toxic loans that are weighing things down; helping homeowners save their homes through mortgages they can manage; setting up a high level bi-partisan commission to analyze the regulatory structure around the financial markets and come up with solutions. I AM VERY ANXIOUS TO SEE WHAT THE REACTION WILL BE TO OBAMA’S “BAILOUT” waiting to see what to do.

  141. thanks masslib for your opinion, which i respect
    I havent followed Paulson so i wanted to hear more opinions

  142. Hillary’s article Blocking Care for Women

    LAST month, the Bush administration launched the latest salvo in its eight-year campaign to undermine women’s rights and women’s health by placing ideology ahead of science: a proposed rule from the Department of Health and Human Services that would govern family planning. It would require that any health care entity that receives federal financing — whether it’s a physician in private practice, a hospital or a state government — certify in writing that none of its employees are required to assist in any way with medical services they find objectionable.

    Laws that have been on the books for some 30 years already allow doctors to refuse to perform abortions. The new rule would go further, ensuring that all employees and volunteers for health care entities can refuse to aid in providing any treatment they object to, which could include not only abortion and sterilization but also contraception.

    Health and Human Services estimates that the rule, which would affect nearly 600,000 hospitals, clinics and other health care providers, would cost $44.5 million a year to administer. Astonishingly, the department does not even address the real cost to patients who might be refused access to these critical services. Women patients, who look to their health care providers as an unbiased source of medical information, might not even know they were being deprived of advice about their options or denied access to care.

    The definition of abortion in the proposed rule is

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/19/opinion/19clinton.html?_r=2&ref=opinion&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

  143. fif, please no, not Rush! Dittoheads will drive you batty …

  144. Pat – congratulations. Now, don’t you feel better?

    Everyone – McCain has nothing to lose when he becomes President. As the Obama camp and the media have repeatedly told us, he is old, full of cancer and about to croak. He can do what is right and not worry about the fall out of pissing everyone off.

    I say long live the King McCain and his mighty black Mark-So-Lot!

    Once he slashes and Dashes all of them, their will be plenty of money left over to fix what ails us!

    I’m excited and hopeful.

    Hillary or McCain 2009

    CAROL HAKA :evil:

  145. YUP

  146. gotta get some things done, ttyl!

  147. Jangles – the interesting thing though is some of these things Hillary had suggested before and no one listened. She is re-introducing some of her earlier ideas

  148. Republican Woman: The problem with Rush is that he is often portrayed as the voice of the Republican Party which has made many of us wary of the other side. Now that we have seen how bad the Dems are this year with the faces of Dean and others acting on our behalf, we have come to different conclusions.

    All of a sudden, those on the “other side” are just like us for the most part. This is one lesson I am taking from this horrendous primary season. Ignore those idiot talking heads and find the common ground.

    I hope I am coherent.

  149. DT: She couldn’t resist a few implicit “I Told You So”s

  150. Downticket, on September 19th, 2008 at 10:20 am Said:

    Hillary is beyond compare and doesn’t stop working for the voter. Thank god she didn’t go off in a huff after being cheated of the Presidency. Most people would of course, and it would be hard to blame them. But not Hill. I can’t help feeling deep sadness when I think how this country and the world was robbed of this woman ‘s leadership at the top

  151. Carol: You of all people know how difficult it has been for me to come to this conclusion. I have to carefully look at things before I back into a decision.

    Having now made up my mind I am less anxious to some extent. This country needs change and I think that both McCain and Palin will provide some of that. I really thinks she is sincere and I think she knows her way around the energy issue. What we must do is stop comparing her to Hillary. Hillary is outstanding and irreplacable in our hearts but we must look ahead.

    Obama will never be change. I am willing to go forward. Difficult as this has been, and you know it has been for me, I am at peace with it.

  152. masslib – yesterday on Hillary’s forum, they were sending McCain campaign Hillary’s plan so that he could use some of it before Obama.

    I don’t think firing those guys now might be the solution. Those guys are needed to try fix the mess they have made. I think that was part of Hillary’s economic plan. To create a committee where some of those guys would participate in finding the solutions. The Obama supporters said she was stealing Obama’s idea, the McCain campaign said obama was xeroxing Hillary’s economic plan

  153. fif, on September 19th, 2008 at 9:36 am Said:

    “Ugly disrespect. I really don’t get it.”

    Maybe, what part of it has to do with is the relatively trivial nature of acting. Actors, like other people, can be intelligent, dumb, good and kind, rude and nasty. But their job, while requiring talent, is about a pretty trivial thing. It’s not about reality. John Wayne was not a tough guy, Frank Sinatra d not win World War II. To the objection that movies can lift us to deeper emotional responses and greater understanding, I would say – bravo to the writers. The actors carry out the relatively easier bit of realizing the writer’s intent. Of course they can do this with great skill and talent, but they do not write the stories.

    So when a fine actor like Susan Sarandon bumps heads with a superlative states-person Hillary Clinton there’s bound to be a clash of cultures. Hillary is just so darned serious, darling .. why can’t she be more – well, “in tune” like Barry? Hollywood culture is not deep. I know I’m stating the obvious, but recent comments from actors would lead the average media-fueled younger person to believe they are deep. They are not. Hillary is deep. Her fault, for Susan Sarandon, is that she is not an actor. We have an actor as DNC choice. As bb remarked on this site, BO will not develop in policy and thinking – he cannot because he is only acting. Someone else has to write the story for him. And that, I feel, is major reason why Hollywood supports him and not Hillary.

  154. Told ya sooooooooooooooooooo!

    Trust me – Johnny and Sarah will be simply fabulous!

    This just hit a few minutes ago. Their ad people are great! Obama has lost this big time. He down, we just have to keep kicking and smashing! We don’t want any recognizable body parts – well, maybe that right middle finger – just for identification purposes!

    CAROL HAKA :evil:

  155. Carol, on September 19th, 2008 at 10:39 am Said:

    We don’t want any recognizable body parts – well, maybe that right middle finger – just for identification purposes!

    Can I have the ears?

  156. urgetocompute – do you have a warehouse large enough to store them or is Sarah going to incorporate them as part of her “wind energy” program?

    CAROL HAKA :evil:

  157. Obama and company are nothing better than the Soprano’s. The big difference is that the Soprano’s were a product of fiction.

    They need to be stopped.

  158. Pat – and you don’t think Obama is a product of fiction?

  159. Can I have the ears?

    Put those ears on your front lawn and watch your energy bill decrease. Those things could by your own personal windfarm!

  160. Carol: And we still have yet to figure out how he woke up in that alley with the cat!

  161. That Johnson ad is a zinger, I must say. I actually agree with the execrable Kos who said that Republicans are good at attacking their opponents’ perceived strengths, in this case the economic crisis.

    We’re coming to that time again when the candidates quit throwing so many jabs, and start doing more uppercuts.

    Obama for Senate ’08

  162. So maybe BO’s energy policy should be: “I will lend you my ears” ?

  163. Just for the record – I would rather watch a WNBA game and have a beer with Sarah than Susan. Even better – I would like to watch that game with Sarah and Hillary.

    About The View – I stopped watching it in 1998 because Joy ragged on Bill Clinton 24/7. When people started calling her a Democrat and a liberal last year I thought they all needed to go back and watch what she did to both Hillary and BIll in the 90s. She is immature and nasty.

  164. The reformation of the Democratic party will only come about by the defeat of Obama. We are just kidding ourselves if we think voting third party or just staying home is going to defeat Obama. We are just going to have to bite the bullet and vote McCain. The media is already saying that women are defecting from McCain in droves because of the present financial break down. To think that Obama and his gang of thugs are going to clean up this mess, you will be sorely mistaken. Some of his principle economic advisors were involved with these companies and contributed large amount of $$$$ to Obama . I am no damn troll and have been a loyal liberal Democrat all my life. I am voting for the McCain/Palin ticket and you should as well.

  165. urgetocpmpute, on September 19th, 2008 at 10:38 am

    Well said. Celebrity culture and the dumbing down of society is the reason why we have a celebrity candidate instead of a serious one.

  166. I want leadership. I had that in Hillary. Obama offers me nothing of the sort. I am willing to place whatever trust I have left in McCain/Palin. My vote counts. It needs to send a message. That message is directed straight at the current Dem leadership. Never, ever do this to us again.

  167. urgetocompute: As bb remarked on this site, BO will not develop in policy and thinking – he cannot because he is only acting. Someone else has to write the story for him

    And that is the scariest part of all – who is writing the story for him?

  168. Delphyne: A panel of crooks is my guess.

  169. Let the Democrats select Howard Dean again. It serves them right.

  170. Fuck Party. Bring the best of everyone together. End the failures of both parties. Fix our government and secure our futures.

    Hillary – McCain – Palin 2009

    I’m telling you – McCain will let Hillary do Healthcare – I just know it.

    CAROL HAKA :evil:

  171. The only way that can happen is if they remove Harry “I don’t know what to do” Reid and make her Senate Majority Leader. She can set the agenda and bring those votes to the floor. He won’t.

  172. Shee WILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL be our Gal !!!!!!!!!!!!

    Harry is gone – especially after yesterday’s -“Ahhhhh, we have to go on vacation because we don’t know what to do about the crisis!!!!!!!!!!! Which way did they go George, Which way did they goooooooooooo!”

    Pat – stop fighting progress. We are on a roll.

    Piper and Trig have told me it is “as good as done!”

    CAROL HAKA :evil:

  173. PJ, I agree. I don’t like Rush, or Coulter for that matter. Occasionally they come up with something decent, but my objection is the people who follow them lock step. We put way too much faith in our talking heads, and not enough faith in our own intuition. AirAmerica says hate Republicans, Rush/Coulter, hate Democrats – yet, overall we all work together, play together, and somehow things move along.

    I’ve realized you can’t have a reasonable debate with a “hate the other side” person because the entire agenda is hate, not solve.

  174. I believe Hillary’s talent will be more appropriately acknowledged and appreciated by a McCain/Palin administration. An Obama/Biden adminstration would only take her ideas and claim them as their own. I don’t trust these guys to do the right thing.

    I do, however, trust McCain and Palin would honor their pledge to bring in the best and the brightest to help solve America’s many problems and I believe Hillary would be at the top of their list.

  175. Is there a list somewhere of celebs that support Obama? I would like to boycott their movies… probably forever. Knowing how stupid/gullible they are will make it impossible to enjoy the movie/show. Much like trying to watch Mel Gibson or Russell Crowe, Tom Cruise, Shirley McClain (I used to love her! before she got so weird)… the list goes on and on. Maybe I will just give up movies & TV altogether. Is there a list of celebs that support McCain/Palin?

  176. Pat – you and I are going to have to meet in Florida to find Caylee. Then we will be heading over to find that missing mother married to the murdering cop. Sarah’s just happy it is not her sister that we will be looking for.

    CAROL HAKA :evil:

  177. McCain likes Hillary. Hillary likes McCain. I don’t see that dynamic with Obama, she will eclipse his star. She and McCain will work better together. But if either one insists on placing her in the background they are making a serious mistake.

    Hillary was big on energy solutions. She could work well with Sarah who has a lot of knowledge in that area. I just want leadership, not excuses.

    Obama is scheduled to be speaking soon. Time to clean both bathrooms!

  178. Carol: Have you heard the interrogation tapes? This Casey is better than OJ for coming up with lies! Unbelievable. She killed that baby and I think now her parents are well aware of it. She probably gave them some song and dance about an “accident” and they bought in. It’s sickening. At least Nancy Grace is covering this. That girl is a murderer. That poor little girl was just beautiful. Make an arrest already!

  179. I’m coming to think the actor thing is a symptom of a larger problem. It’s less about the political beliefs than it is about social status. Some might even say, about “class.” (gasp)

    Celebrities who have become pumped up in popular culture, becoming a form of royalty, assume their opinions are priviliged, certainly more priviliged than the commoners. The commoners, after all, are not *beautiful*. Unfortunately, the privileged sectors of our country have the money to back up their often vapid opinions. The custodian in my building who is saving for an operation, and has been for a couple of years, can’t throw a million dollar fundraiser for a candidate.

    Hence, she’s invisible to a celebrity like BO or Sarandon. Heck, she’s invisible to most people — but I’m sure Susan and Barry would insist that they are the ones who care about such… little people.

  180. Just heard Bill Clinton will be on the View Monday, 9/22.

  181. taw46: He will handle those nutjobs!!!

  182. audacity, on September 19th, 2008 at 9:51 am Said:
    don’t forget whoooooopi who is scared to become a slave again?!

    whoopi said that? what an ignorant a$$. there are current day slaves in america and around the world. but she wants to make it all about her? maybe she should stop navel gazing and get involved in helping slavery’s real life victims.

    iabolish

  183. Yup, already scheduled the DVR to see that.

  184. i can never get links to work. hopefully one of these will work.

    http://www.iabolish.org/

    iabolish

  185. alice, on September 19th, 2008 at 11:26 am Said:

    “I’m coming to think the actor thing is a symptom of a larger problem. It’s less about the political beliefs than it is about social status. Some might even say, about “class.” (gasp)
    Celebrities who have become pumped up in popular culture, becoming a form of royalty, assume their opinions are priviliged, certainly more priviliged than the commoners. The commoners, after all, are not *beautiful*. ”

    I think that’s it alice. When people swoon over you it’s hard not to believe your own PR. I forget which celebrity said the really important thing in life is to separate your public persona from your private one – not to believe your own hype. Hollywood stars deem to forget that. BO’s Achilles heel is that he truly does seem to believe his own PR – why, if so many intelligent people- professionals, actors – and EUROPEANS! – love you … you MUST be really, really important. That’s where he will fall, I hope, by believing this crap. McCain was right in my view to target this early one. Now if the Republicans could pick up bb’s point about what you see with BO is what you get – empty words that will never mean anything because it is only glitter and tinsel- it might resonate with enough voters i the right States.

  186. TheRealKim:

    “lol! I know, I’ve been liking Rove, Newt, and even tolerating Rush. I am beginning to question my sanity.”

    patjohnson:

    “All of a sudden, those on the “other side” are just like us for the most part. This is one lesson I am taking from this horrendous primary season. Ignore those idiot talking heads and find the common ground.”

    Yeah, it’s funny- over the last couple days the person I found most admirable during the wall street debacle was Hillary- no finger pointing, but steady work to find a solution.

    I’d not have believed that I could have entertained such a thought only a few months ago, but performance speaks a whole lot louder than talking head propaganda.

    Think the two of you might be on to something here, and Pat think you’re correct in thinking Hillary would have a place in a McCain admin.

    She’d not necessarily do things the way I’d like- but she’d DO THINGS instead of babbling incessantly, or bolting town when things got tough.

  187. The Whoopi comment was grotesque. It assumes that Republicans want to **restore slavery**. WTH? Is that kind of “humor” okay for people who call themselves progressives, and not for anyone else?

  188. a rightish visitor, on September 19th, 2008 at 11:37 am Said:

    “… over the last couple days the person I found most admirable during the wall street debacle was Hillary- no finger pointing, but steady work to find a solution … performance speaks a whole lot louder than talking head propaganda.”

    rightish: thank you for this. I have pretty much voted on what people would describe as the left side of politics all my life. Like many people here I find what Obama is doing execrable. John McCain seems and OK sort of guy – some things I don’t much like about his policies and where his heart is, but he seems to be able to reach out to different people and work with them. Sara Palin seems intelligent, genuinely worried about corruption and able to deal with it, but with a lot to learn, though probably capable of learning. Which is why so many of us here despair. As you have seen, Hillary is capable of addressing serious problems seriously. Hillary will not be President his time. I hope she can find a forum so that open, intelligent, caring people like you can continue to understand what this remarkable woman has to offer this country, and the world. A true leader in every sense of the word.

  189. I’ve seen more admiration of Hillary from McCain/Palin than ObamaNation can seem to squeeze out thru clenched teeth. And who is it that says Hillary needs to prove her loyalty by running wherever to fix an Obamafueled fire? Why, ObamaFNation.

  190. Whoopi actually asked if McCain was going to enslave her, or something like that. It had to do with interpreting the constitution according to original intent.

    If I’d been McCain, I’d have pointed out that it was the Republican party that ended slavery and established voting rights for blacks before women got them, reforms that were fought tooth and nail for a full century by southern Democrats.

  191. New ARG poll has McCain up 21 points here in Texas – 57 to 36%

    I could have predicted that Texas poll. We do NOT like Obama. Texans as a rule tend to be very big on self-sufficiency and earning your own damn way, and the sniveling “poor oppressed me” race-baiting of Obama is not going over well here. Texans laugh at the idea of being told they have to vote a certain way or be judged as backward racist yokels. They say, “So what? Since when do I care what Hollywood or Delaware think of me?”

    Texans admire strength and intestinal fortitude, almost more so in women, which is why they liked Hillary, why they liked Ann Richardson, and why they like John and Sarah. We pretty much see Obama as a whiny little pissant with no spine at all.

    Most Texas women could whip Bambi’s ass in a fair fight without mussing their hair, could out ride him, out talk him, out shoot him, out common-sense him, and do it all with a baby slung on one hip while painting their nails. We have no use for that petulant little prancing loafered snit.

    In the words of the infamous cowboy “Curly” in the Billy Crystal movie: “I crap bigger’n you.”

  192. JohninCA, my husband (like me a lifelong Democrat) keeps bringing that up too. Another one he’s been bringing up is a quote he says is from, I believe, Eugene McCarthy from a discussion on bringing democracy to the world and he said something along the lines of “maybe they should start with the Democratic Party first.” :D

  193. WMCB, on September 19th, 2008 at 11:57 am Said:

    “… that petulant little prancing loafered snit.”

    Ahh! Shakespeare would be envious of your turn of phrase.

  194. a rightish visitor,

    People’s perception of Hillary is colored by a 16 year media hit-job on her. Her favorability has gone up a lot since the primaries started because people havehas gotten to see her up close without the filter of the press and they realize almost everything the pundits said about her in the past were total lies. She is a roll up your sleeves and get things done person. We need that now. What the Dems have put up this year is all talk.

  195. a rightish visitor: I think we have come to realize that most of these talking heads are speaking more for their corporate sponsors than for the constituents. When we begin to separate the crap they all spew from both sides, perhaps we can find that common ground. Hopefully.

  196. I think I have less of an issue with celebs who endorse Obama than I do with celebs who tear down Hillary. You can do one without the other.

    Yesterday in the parking lot of the supermarket I saw my first “Democrats for McCain” bumpersticker.

  197. [...] Friday: Freaky Friday (by riverdaughter at The Confluence) Why, Howard [Dean], WHY couldn’t we have Hillary this year?  You media types have a lot to answer for too.  In a year when we need our best, brightest, most competent, ready-to-go leaders, you connive to give us John McCain and Barack Obama, a Product.  Was this really necessary?  Why was it so important to sideline this woman in a time of crisis in our nation’s history?   What was so damn special about Barack Obama?  How come you couldn’t see past the color of his skin to the complete absence of content in his character? Well?  I’d like to hear some answers from the media who helped to force this decision on us. [...]

  198. Off topic, but when people start discussing Hillary, and how badly she was treated it reminds me of the crap that is happening to Sarah.

    On an Etsy forum thread last night, they were having a Palin roast fest and one poster discussed different ways she and her boyfriend phantasized about how it would happen. Helicopter crash, etc.

    A maine news reporter who looks like Palin has been getting harassing voice mail messages about her resemblance to palin. That is a video at CNN.com.

    How far does the hatred of women in power go before people say enough is enough?

  199. Why indeed do we not have Hillary besideds the DNC and Obama stealing her from us. Indeed we women have always been our own worst enemies. Shame on “US”! But, that doesn’t keep those of “US” who are not caddy females from working our hearts out for McCain/Palin, just as we did for Hillary!!! That goes for you guys out there too who are not misogynistic. I know there are more of you who are not than are sexist. We can do this if we all stick together. Mary

  200. And what is up with Obama blaming McCain for the economic news this week? Obama is more of the problem than McCain is. People are voting their gut, and most people believe that Dems are better than Republicans on the economy. But Obama is very much a part of what went wrong with Fannie Mae and Freddy. He didn’t vote for legislation that would overall the system, and McCain spearheaded the reform. The bill didn’t get passed because of the Dems.

    Where are the reporters brave enough to announce the facts?

  201. I saw an online article on Yahoo news yesterday that was saying that Bill Richardson was in the running for DNC chair!

    That wouldn’t be an improvement over anything but just a sign (I think) that the Clinton banishment would continue.

    Would Howie really want to go thru 4 more years of abuse?

  202. Obama is waiting for Hillary to put forth her ideas on the economy before he respond, just like he did during the primaries. Hide and watch him steal all of her ideas. This had better be reported wildly by the media. Wake up, America!!!

  203. The View is day time tv, it is about as authentic as the Judge Judy type shows.

  204. Sandra B is just another surgically altered male approval seeking ( tho she would never admit to it LOL) anti feminist .. a shrieking testament to how twisted a woman in this culture can become to conform , in order to perform …even with all her anticonformist protestations , she could stand right next to the real human see how well I can perform sex acts barbie doll, Pamela Anderson , and fit right in

  205. I am so grateful that at least Hillary is in Washington fighting to take care of the people and the interests of America. Her well of knowledge is to our benefit in these difficult times. I hope Washington will value her input in areas like Iraq, fiscal responsibility and public health.

    I really hope that sometime soon the democrats will see the light about how important aggressive and feasible access to our natural energy resources are. I believe this is one of the most vital SECURITY and ECCONOMIC challenges we face. We have to be honest about the ecconomical and labour benefits we lose because of importing so much energy. Democrats and enviromentalists blocking access has to stop. We have to be honest about our difficult choices and the consequences of those choices.

    We need to strive towards green energy, efficiency and conservation, but we also have to be realistic of the energy needs of our nation.

  206. Susan Sarandon does not like Hillary Clinton. She was on the View back in Jan. Said it then. She was a strong supporter of John Edwards. Her and what his name did campaign events with him.
    Whenever the usual hollywood people like her and Ed Harris rant against a candidate, it makes that particular candidate look better.

  207. According to one of the Clinton books I read last January–and this was an anti-Hillary slanted book–there was an implication that Hillary Clinton’s “wing” was instrumental in “taking Dean out” of the 2004 elections by puffing up the Dean Scream…and that Howard Dean has hated Hillary ever since.

    Now…I wasn’t hot on the book as a whole, but there were SOME truths woven within the baldfaced exaggerations. Now I’m just wondering if this accusation was true, because all of Dean’s anti-Clintonism seems to point to a bitterness that hasn’t been spoken about.

  208. You’ve got to be kidding me. If the Democrats DON’T win this election then it will prove that the Democrats CAN’T win the presidency…ever. Not because Obama is the messiah but because we should have won in 2004 and how can we lose in 2008 with the war still not won and the economy collapsing…all under Republican rule. Rather than complain why don’t you go after the REAL problem in this country. JOHN MCCAIN AND THE GOP.

  209. WMCB, on September 19th, 2008 at 11:57 am

    Priceless!

  210. Beer tap if you really cared about Democracy you would never have been part of an “machine” that was cheating voters in every caucus state and with a sham roll call vote. The Dems are the republicans of past elections now. YOU are part of that problem if you go along with it. Get your head out of your nether regions and look at the truth of what the Obama campaign did here.

    The only change he is bringing is division because some of us don’t want our government run by the Soprano *rulz*

    The one who really had detailed solutions was CHEATED by her own party and ACORN and move on using SOROS money to cheat voters.

    Said cheated voters are not amused. Dead people voted and who the hell did they vote for? Go read Dr. Lynette Long’s caucus fraud research and then tell me you believe that Obama is a true democrat.

    It’s all smoke and mirrors and worse…the country IS in a huge mess and all we are left with is the GWB of the democratic party.

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