Something tells me that Bill Clinton is a die hard PUMA. In a speech to the Governor’s Association meeting, Bill extolled the virtues of the original progressive, Teddy Roosevelt:
Clinton concluded his speech by reminding governors, who are marking the association’s centennial, that the issues they face today are similar to problems President Teddy Roosevelt grappled with a century ago.
Those include inequality among rich and poor, immigration and energy policy.
If those issues are dealt with, “We’re about to go into the most exciting period of human history,” Clinton said.
John McCain seemed to be channeling Bill as well when he made a similar observaton:
He said government should play an important role in areas like addressing climate change, regulating campaign finance and taking care of “those in America who cannot take care of themselves.”
“I count myself as a conservative Republican, yet I view it to a large degree in the Theodore Roosevelt mold,” Mr. McCain said, referring to Roosevelt’s reputation for reform, environmentalism and tough foreign policy.
Could this be a coded message to PUMAS, from both Bill Clinton and McCain? As I’m sure Clinton knows, Teddy knew a thing or two about being run out of his party. In fact, TR and Hillary have a lot in common:
The voice of the people” was clear in the Republican primaries. But the voters were not allowed to “speak” in most states.This was the first year in which there were presidential primaries. The primary system had developed on the state level for state offices from the 1890s on, and in 1912 presidential primaries were introduced, often promoted by supporters of TR. But some 36 states had no direct popular Republican primary. In these states delegates were chosen by state conventions, and delegates to state conventions were usually chosen in local conventions. It was a system easily dominated by professional politicians, particularly in the South where there were few Republicans but many delegates.
That sounds an awful lot like the way Obama won in red states like Idaho and Utah. It also reflects how undemocratic the causus system is (as if we needed further proof).
Republicans in the South were often simply federal officeholders, such as postmasters and revenue collectors. Rough politics was nothing new , but in 1912 records were set for riot, rough house, fraud, and dispute. The end result was that in many states contesting delegates claimed the same seats. Some 254 delegate seats to the Republican convention were contested.
The Republican National Committee, dominated by President Taft’s supporters, had the power to decide the delegate disputes.
Isn’t that exactly what happened at the RBC meeting? But wait, the similarities keep on coming:
Incidentally, of the 53 members of that committee, 15 had not been elected delegates to the convention in 1912, and four came from US territorial possessions and 10 from Southern states, areas where GOP politics was completely controlled by presidential patronage. these three groups accounted for 29 members of the Republican National Committee– a majority. Of the 254 contested seats, TR was awarded 19 and President Taft was given 235. About the best that could be said for the GOP adjudication process was that Taft had stolen a majority “fair and square.” That is to say, what was done was probably legal , if barely so in many delegate cases. But there were no law suits and trials. The courts seldom got involved in party disputes in those days.
A loss of 22 delegates would have denied Taft the nomination on the first ballot. The conclusion seemed obvious to Roosevelt’s supporters at the Republican national convention in Chicago in June 1912. The Chicago Tribune printed a banner headline: “THOU SHALT NOT STEAL.”
The whole fair and square thing sounds a lot like how the RBC decided to award delegates to Obama that had been won by Clinton in the Michigan primary. Their “Fair Reflection” regarding the Michigan primary took delegates that were awarded by the voters to Clinton and gave them to Obama. They also awarded him delegates based on him receiving EVERY SINGLE write in ballot, even though they were never even opened, and Obama went out of his way to make sure that his write in would not even be legal. Too bad we don’t have the same editorial board as the Chicago Tribune did back in 1912. So how did Roosevelt’s supporters react to this shameful affront to democracy?
Most of Roosevelt’s delegates walked out of the Republican convention and held a mass meeting, where it was decided to bolt the Republican Party and found a new party. Roosevelt agreed to lead a new party if nominated . In August 1912 the national convention of the new Progressive Party met in Chicago, and nominated TR for President and Governor Hiram W. Johnson of California for Vice President. In November the Republicans for the first and only time in history came in third in both the popular and electoral vote for President. TR came in second, and because of the split in the normal Republican vote, Democrat Woodrow Wilson was elected.
This last bit is my favorite part. This is what we need to do in Denver. And if Clinton’s delegates formed their own party, I think they very well could win the presidency. Even if they didn’t, it is imperative that Obama does not get rewarded for such an anti-democratic power grab for the reigns of the party. Theodore Roosevelt understood this, even in defeat:
By running and losing, by refusing to be counted out by party leaders when the voters had spoken first, Theodore Roosevelt had firmly established the new primary system. “..Are the American people fit to govern themselves, to rule themselves, to control themselves? ” TR asked in March. “I believe they are. My opponents do not.” It was democracy that was on trial in the contest for the nomination that year, and in the long run democracy won.
I agree with TR, American people are fit to govern themselves. Obama and his supporters do not agree. They believe that they are entitled to their nominee by hook or by crook. They believe that some voters are more equal than others. Hell, they believe they can even read the minds of people who didn’t even vote and with a straight face argue that they would have voted for Obama–if they hadn’t been tricked into not voting –so they should be given as much consideration as the people who took their civic duty seriously and actually went to the polls. (I should mention that the irony is not lost on me that one of Teddy’s distant relatives would be chairing the RBC that stole delegates from Clinton and gave them to Obama)
We all remember TR from history class as the rough and tumble, “carry a big stick” guy. But what many people don’t know was that, like Hillary, he was also a champion of women’s rights. In fact, his (Bull Moose) Progressive Party had many women in powerful positions, and in the 1912 election two of the states that TR carried were states that had given women suffrage already:
At the first national convention of the Progressive Party, in Chicago in August of 1912, all observers noted the prominence of women, women delegates, women leaders. The Kansas newspaper editor William Allen White recalled: “We were, of course, for woman suffrage, and we invited women delegates and had plenty of them. They were our own kind, too– women doctors, women lawyers, women teachers, college professors, middle-aged leaders of civic movements, or rich young girls who had gone in for settlement work.” “Settlement work” refers to the settlement houses in the cities, places where the poor could obtain basic social services, not then available from government. Many social workers, male and female, supported the Progressive Party in 1912. Indeed, the most famous settlement house leader and social worker in American history, the beloved Jane Addams of Hull House in Chicago, was at the convention, and seconded Theodore Roosevelt’s nomination for President. This was said to be the first time that a woman had addressed the national convention of a major party. The rules of the Bull Moose Party, adopted at the Chicago convention, mandated that four women were to be members-at-large on the Progressive National Committee. This was to insure female representation at the highest levels of party leadership.
In November 1912 Theodore Roosevelt carried two states with women’s suffrage, Washington and California (he won six states in all);
We will never know what might have happened had Roosevelt triumphed in the GE of 1912. We do know, however, that he got more votes than the Republican nominee. If Hillary were to follow his example I think she could actually go the whole 9 yards and beat both McCain and Obama. Many people suggest that she could never do this as it might damage Bill Clinton’s legacy in the eyes of the party. I’m not so sure. Roosevelt’s legacy, and even legend, are the stuff of which our shared national pride is made. I’d like to think that in 100 years Hillary is remembered as the scrappy underdog who took on her party, and this time, won.
Filed under: Barack Obama, Gender Equity, Hillary Clinton, Politics, Presidential Election 2008 | Tagged: Bull Moose, PUMA, stealing votes, Theodore Roosevelt








Very interesting and a great history lesson. Thank you garychapelhill!
Gary…
You and Mawm and Fuzzy must come down to NOLA for Southern Decadence!!
http://www.southerndecadence.com/
you’ll have a ton of fun and help nola repair herself.
Gary, you are totally awesome! Let’s channel Teddy and hope Hillary and her delegates walk out in Denver. Oh, how I would love to see Hillary run as the third presidential candidate and beat the boys.
I believe there was a time when Bill Clinton’s legacy in the eyes of the party mattered. However, since Obama trampled on the Clinton legacy as the dem elite stood by and silently watched, I would say that might not be a factor anymore. History will judge his legacy, not the current dem party.
I would not be surprised if Bill is whispering in Hillary’s ear that it’s her time now. Screw the party who trampled on him and his legacy if need be.
“And if Clinton’s delegates formed their own party, I think they very well could win the presidency.”
YES! I believe that too. If her primary debt is paid off, can’t you just imagine her going for it?
You know the PUMA movement would roll coins, collect cans, and work their finances in every way possible to raise money to help her run.
She could really shake up US politics and change history if she tried it. Isn’t that reason enough to go for it?
I also speculate that Bill was indeed sending a coded message to PUMAs. We hear you Bill!
Excellent article, and history lesson Gary. Thanks for a great read this morning.
The country needs Hillary Clinton as president.
Most people know this and would do anything to help her. If it means a new party so be it.
The new democratic party does not stand for the American people today and would not be missed.
The dnc would screw up a one car funeral.
COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS
PUMA RULES
Great History lesson Gary! We Conflucian PUMAs are not only our own people with our own minds, we are remarkably well informed thanks to such great posts.
The country needs, if nothing else, to send a message to BOTH parties that politics as usual is over. They need to know that thanks to this new critter called the “innertubz” ordinary people with an extraordinary commitment to democracy are speaking up. With the ability to bypass a corrupted party leadership and the corrupt media they are refusing to accept that “pols will be pols” as the status quo.
Acceptance of “pols will be pols” means that we ask nothing of our politicians and that is what we will get. Which explains why they believe fervently that we have no place to go. We’ve followed their inane leadership for years, why would they believe we won’t continue with our supine support?
I’m a firm believer in ask and you shall receive. Don’t ask and you won’t! And if asking doesn’t work, well then you just insist.
Now, that’s a Teddy I did like!
meanwhile, in my neck of the woods, PUMAs show they know how to party – beyond the virtual world
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/07/13/pumas-party/
We’re meese?
SOME people are doomed to repeat history.
edge: Sorry I missed the BBQ. I didn’t get the evite until yesterday afternoon after spending 4.NJ Transit and the subway was not appealing.
you were missed, riverdaughter. great to see everyone “in person”. I was a little star-struck
Gary,
I never knew any of that before. Thank you so much for a great history lesson to start my day. I wish Hillary would run as an independent, and wouldn’t it be fitting if she called the new party the Liberal or Progressive Party? I don’t know what the Democratic Party is now, but it’s certainly not either liberal or progressive.
I personally have always admired Teddy Roosevelt, a brash, straight-talker. But, be careful. Roosevelt also had an expansionist’s view of invading and appropriating other countries’ resources through war.
They are starting the pressure for her to become VP
I just read an article with Alegre, and she’s inquiring to Hillary’s supporters as to how they feel.
I caught this days ago on the sites with BO’s campaign (it takes our people time to oranize and get it out to us)–I sent it to dncreform.com, and others
I responded in this way.
How Dare you !——- “hold the VP open till the last minute”, it’s not your decision (BO), or the DNC’s if Senator Clinton wants to be VP—It’s HERS—yeah, the evil witches decsion..
Don’t count on it, she listens to us, and our voices, she knows we’re HERE, we got her back. We MISS her, you could care less.
Choose DEAN or PELOSI< you all have alot in common. Your masters in corrupting the most highly regarded principles this country was built upon. Our fathers, forefathers, sons, daughters fwho died in in wars, for these principles. They would hang their head in shame, because of you and the DNC’s hypocracies, to this BEAUTIFUL country and the people who live and support it.
You, Dean and Pelosi, your a crew, you’ll manage to Lose, anyway you decide.
As far as we’re concerned, Hillary Clinton belongs to US—AMERICA, not you, IT’S HER CHOICE< IT’S OUR CHOICE, not YOURS !!
WE SAY, ABSOLUTELY NOT—we stand for nothing that’s a benefit to YOU,———– our time will come”
NO WAY, NO DEAL, NO FLORIDA, NO MICHIGAN
———-NO WHITEHOUSE, not on her coatails——-
Go BUBBA, they are so afraid of YOU—your too smart, and your not as “pure in heart” as Hillary is, PLUS, they really gave you the screw job, they insisted you got from UHHH what was her name. JESUS, GOOD LORD, even JFK did it with Marilyn—how did you get caught with MONICA——
.
Me too, “two states”.
Everyone was GREAT !!!
** “Gary “, this was an amazing post!
I met someone in DC @ the RBC protest who is a Colorado Delegate & she was talking about a Hillary
delegates, “WALK-OUT” back then. We were interviewed together for Canadian Radio. I think there were more foreign media there than American?
** I FULLY AGREE with both:
Lyn5 & HeroesforHillary’s bloggs !!
There’s a group called The Teddy Roosevelt Society. They send out a periodical I think about 4 times a year. We could form the Hillary Clinton Society.
Hillary should NOT be VP. How typical for them to want her to come in and save the day. But how more powerful we will be when we still refuse to support Obama because she is not the top of the ticket.
I think Hillary is so loyal to the Democrat Brand…maybe if we called ourselves The Progressive Independent Democrats we could get her onboard. This would connect us to our past as democrats, our commitment to progressive ideals, and our bold future of steering an Independent course from the two “traditional” parties of business as usual.
This name would surely attract the large moderate and liberal republican wing as well as the large base of women LGBT and blue collar democrats. This party would encompass people who have felt for too long they have not had a voice in Washington and in their state capitals.
Let the Republican Party keep the 20% who are right wing extremist and the Democrat Party keep the 20% of that represent the Liberal (faux) elite. We shall plant our Progressive Party seeds in the fertile soil of the 60% of America that is looking for leadership and a party not controlled by any interests than their own.
Fuzzybeargville
Fredster-I am originally from Pensacola Florida I owned a little watering hole called Number’s Pub. Many of you from New Orleans would come over to Pensacola for our Memorial Day Weekend Party from 1991-1997. I met Douglas when he was living in New Orleans working for the Pontchartrain Center in Kenner. We had many friends in NOLA many no longer with us and some still around….It was a magical city. When Douglas and myself could sneak away from the business in P-cola, The Big Easy was a great place to unwind.
New Orleans is an awesome place to visit. One of my favorite places. The people there are great. I had a plane ticket to arrive in New Orleans the day Katrina hit. Fortunately, my ticket wasn’t for a few days earlier. However, the city is highly disfunctional. It’s just the opposite of my personality so that’s why I like to go there.
Oh morning all, had to hibernate early last night almost getting drowned in a river takes alot out of you…Yawn-if you missed my day of mis-adventures go to the last thread where it is cronicled in hysterical detail…
Lets just say Fuzzybear is staying away from large bodies of water until campaign season-hell he is staying away from any water that doesnt come in a bathtub or a drinking glass.
fuzzybeargville
“Something tells me that Bill Clinton is a die hard PUMA. In a speech to the Governor’s Association meeting, Bill extolled the virtues of the original progressive, Teddy Roosevelt:”
Yes I think so ,too and his speech is really worth watching
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/includes/templates/library/flash_popup.php?pID=206372-2&clipStart=&clipStop=
Thanks for the history lesson .
Gary-Great lesson for today! Oh, how I wish this was Hillary’s plan! How about sending this to her Senate office? Although others have certainly asked her, it wouldn’t hurt especially after Bill’s comments about Teddy in his speech.
I, too, will be so upset if Hillary accepts VP! And I fear that the Democrats will definitely win in that case. I know that there are a lot of Hillary supporters who want her in any position and will run to the polls to vote if she is VP. That is my fear!
Good Morning.
Great Party last night!
The morning talk shows are about to start. They are already starting to spin how Obama is tied according to Ras, has lost 12 points in 2 weeks according to Newsweek, blah, blah, blah……….
Guess what guys and gals, his lead was never there, it was a gimmick by the pollsters to hype his sorry ass!
We still have lots of work to do PUMA$. We need to go until she tells us it is paid.
PUMA$ Who Donate Rock & Rule!
(oh yeah, Bill, Chelsea and Hillary are all PUMAS)
If she can’t be president, I want Hillary in the Senate, where I hope she can stay for years, getting more powerful and influential.
VP is nothing without the president’s consent — and the Obamaites would just blame her for everything that he messed up.
Great post! May I steal? (with credit of course!)
And yes, we should send this to Hillary herself! It’s past time for the voters to dope slap the powers that be!
18 million, plus all those who wanted to vote for her but were registered in closed primary states! (I worked the polls here in NW PA and met a goodly number of Republican ladies who, even back in April, were already planning to vote for her in Nov.) Oh, yes, Hillary could kick ass and take names later!
If you look at the results of the 1912 election , if the Republican party had done the smart thing and nominated the popular vote winnner, teddy, they would have won the general. Taft and Roosevelt got about 7.5 million votes to Wilson’s 6.2 million. So come on SD’s, its not too late to stop this train wreck…do the right thing and nominate the people’s choice
plural-she will only be senator until 2012 when if she is “locked out” this year she will run victoriously.
an new political party hillary its an idea who’s time may have come….
Do you hear that noise Dr Dean and Sen McCain? the is the sound of 150 million feet feet leaving BOTH of you to get to a party that represents their interest alone with out the business as usual crap you throw at us.
fuzzybeargville
The PUMAs comments, which were allowed to be posted regarding the Denver PUMA group’s ad, were on point; civil; and, filled with Thomas Paine-esque common sense. The Obamatrons were quite a different story and to those folks we have a few things to say. First, regardless of what your Obamatron Talking Points Memos tell you, PUMAs come from all walks of life and political ideologies. If you don’t know this today, that’s ok. We plan to make sure you have no questions after November 4th
http://countusout.wordpress.com/2008/07/13/hillary-pumas-holdin-it-down/
Oh how I wish at least one of the Clintons is reading this blog. They were always linking to it on Hillary Hub during the primary.
I hope she knows what support there would be for her if she did do something like a third party or independent run, if the Democrats are too stupid to nominate the people’s choice.
I think for many americans Bill Clintons legacy remains untarnished , and his place in history immovable and unshakable ..unlike someone else who is on shaky ground even as the “presumptuous” nominee of the demographic party”
I like the idea of independent progressive democrats …but In that order IPD , only because in medical terminology PID stands for pelvic inflammatory disease , and trust me someone would use it …. or maybe it is just a nurse thing …
The spin is beginning to give way to some semblance of reality as more and more bo supporters become disillusioned ..
The deserve more than what they are getting ..and Hillary is our HOPE
two articles this morning
Obama Supporters on the Far Left Cry Foul
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/us/politics/13liberal.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&th&emc=th in the NYTIMES
and this one from the Chicago Tribune
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-kasssun_bdjul13,0,2158455.column Obama backers on the left are doing the wincing now
are very good reading
I left comments and links to PUMAS there
I think that many many of the thousands of young voters that he engaged with his ” message ” are now and will be more so in the future extremely disillusioned with this wanna be .
What he did to the young people of this country won’t be forgotten by them . He fed them promises and high ideals , he got them engaged in the process and then HE STOLE THEIR HOPE
What a cruel thing to do to young idealistic people whose future is in the hands of the elected president
HE STOLE THEIR HOPE LIKE the GRINCH STOLE CHRISTMAS . I have compared the sight of someone waking up to what bo truly is; to telling a child there is no santa clause . The disappointment is acute . I think he had better not count on the “youth vote” so much… because they simply wont show up . They are dismayed , and discouraged with the entire process, because of the betrayal by the person they put their hope in .
I still have hope for HIllary !!! Perhaps she can restore some of theirs
All those wanting Hillary as an independent, here is a petition to sign
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/We-Want-Hillary-In-The-White-House
Thanks for the historical perspective. Looking at the misogyny and sexism in this society now I wonder if we can draw a conclusion that a woman’s presidential bid is being carried out in a century old mindset. TR included women before they got their right to vote and close to a century later, a woman running for president had to endure all kinds of ridiculous behavior from the media and the party to even run — it is as if she had to be both a TR and a women’s advocate all in one but still she can’t go all out to form a new party. It is a damn shame that there is no equivalent TR like political figure now on Clinton’s side. It would not hurt for the cast of characters including the SDs to think of their own legacy. As befitting in a democracy, we the people have to save her to save ourselves.
pm317 said:
It is a damn shame that there is no equivalent TR like political figure now on Clinton’s side.
I think she does– Bill Clinton
I believe it is too late for a third party candidate to be placed on the ballots in a lot of the states.
PUMA$ Who Donate Rock & Rule!
melusine08-thanks for the link a Fuzzybear endorsement we should all watch it. I cannot believe team obama and the MSM had the nerve to trash theis great mind the way they did the democratic party does not deserve President Clinton among their ranks eigther of them!
fuzzybeargville
Carol, I don’t think so. The Democrats will not formally know who is going to be on the ballot in November. I don’t think the name will be submitted until after the convention. There may be rules about parties having to get on the ballot by a certain date, but how could they submit a name before Aug 28th?
swanspirit-
Sorry forgot about PID you are so right IPD-I was going to call it Democrat Independent Progressives-but the obamanation alrady things we are DIPs so at least I caught one bad accronym before we suffered more trash talk from the troll’s!
fuzzybeargville
melusine08:
Thanks for the link to President Clinton’s speech. For those who I’ve been around who have asked, “what is he doing”, here’s an answer. I was again totally blown away by his remarks. Here is a man who is a problem-solver. Give him an issue and he seeks “things that can be done” to solve it. That’s the kind of CHANGE I can believe in. Comparisons to TR, indeed… this man is not just an inspirational speaker; he is capable of finding solutions!!! That’s something he and Hillary Clinton have in common… a passion to do something, not just give a speech.
Gary-wonderful!
The parallels are incredible. History is a good friend to PUMAs, the credible answer to the inevitable accusation that our goals are “far-fetched”.
Two action things-
1) Do we all know at least one state delegate for Hillary? Any of us know (or know someone that directly knows) a Super-D?—Send that person Janis’ link to her flyers for the Demver Group. They are very powerful reminders to stand strong. I sent mine to a deleagate friend that is also the assistant to a powerful Washington State Super D.
2) PUMA Seattle Organizational Meeting Tonight-7pm! Contact me for details:
joanievivaz@gmail.com
Gary – What a wonderful post! I had not known about the historical similarities between today and 1912. They are quite compelling.
I believe Carol has nailed the point. A third party run, due to practical considerations, would have to happen AFTER the 2008 election.
Still, I feel that should HRC not be our nominee, she should indeed desert the Democratic Party for a third party. I’ve seen polling on this, and I believe that America is ready for a break from the traditional two parties.
Hillary should join the Working Families Party. It’s a New York-based party and very, very liberal. Plus, its focus is on Working Families – a focus the Democratic leadership has, sadly, completely lost.
I do not believe that HRC should be VP. And, I don’t think Obama will offer it to her. He is doing everything in his power to avoid a dream team. It would be very difficult for him to abandon his position that Hillary is the incarnation of all that is Evil and suddenly claim she is “worthy” to be his VP.
“It would be very difficult for him to abandon his position that Hillary is the incarnation of all that is Evil and suddenly claim she is “worthy” to be his VP.”
madamab, Why not? He’s abandoned everything else.
But I agree. Further, I wouldn’t want him to poison HER ticket. He’d drag her down.
I dont think it would phase bo in the least to do yet another 180 on anything …much less asking Hillary to be VP , as much as I would hate to see that happen , I have no doubt if if he considered her an asset he would attempt to use her as he has everyone else , because his character lacks any core . HE is the poison !
#
garychapelhill, on July 13th, 2008 at 10:10 am Said:
pm317 said:
It is a damn shame that there is no equivalent TR like political figure now on Clinton’s side.
I think she does– Bill Clinton
————————-
Not enough, he is family. We have a saying in my culture (and language), your own backyard herb is not a good enough medicine. We needed an outside champion for the cause — the cause being a first viable female candidate more qualified than her immediate rival. But nothing would have worked in this current environment of deception and corruption, I am afraid.
OH my I didn’t think of DIP hehe good thing you caught it
I would rather be a DIP than A PID but right now I am happy being a PUMA … I LOOVEEE BEING A PUUUMAAAA woohoooo
His failure on the FISA issue should be the main topic of discussion since it displays a sheer lack of leadership toward a policy that has been rejected by the public. However, the blogs are alive with the Bernie Mac comments instead.
Those nasty and sexist comments, which are illustrative of how women are viewed, have no place at a political fundraiser. Obama may not be responsible for what a comic may say but it reflects his indifference to these insensitive remarks when he backtracks his admonition to Bernie by saying, “just messing with you,man”. In other words it is okay.
Obama is absent core principles and that has become a constant in this campaign. A poster on another site has nicknamed him, Backtrack Obama. Fitting.
Good morning.
How is everybody today?
I love it!
I haven’t been around much because I’m in the middle of three synergystic sh!t storms. So far, I’m holding my own.
It cheers me up to be here.
Pat .. unlike the Clintons who actually know what they are talking about and stick to their principles because they actually have some …
bo is a wanna be to such a degree I think .he feeds his flip flop ability VIAGRA
BACKTRACK OBAMA … Purrrrfect !!! that one is going to stick to him
Hi Arabella! Welcome back! We missed your wit!
When I was in college, I was an au pair for a family who had a sumer home in Maine. It was an old farm, not gussied up one bit. We used an outhouse, etc.
The house had a spectacular view of Mt. Washington. One day I was sitting in the door yard watching the kids chase the chickens around. The dirt road in front of the house never, ever had any traffic on it.
Suddenly I saw this horrible creature walking toward the house. It looked like a gigantic deformed horse, just strolling along. I grabbed the kids and sat frozen in fear as the beast walked into the woods.
Turned out it was a female moose. Female moose = no antlers. I had no frame of reference for the animal, so I didn’t recognize it.
Whenever I think of mooses, I think of that day. Context can fool you. That’s the lesson I learned that day.
Hi Arabella! [waving]
You are right – I didn’t mean it would be difficult for Obama PERSONALLY to 180 on how Hillary is Teh Evil. I mean I think he would lose a key tranche of his supporters, who always liked him merely because he is Not Hillary and because he “beat” her in the primary. Those folks are already wavering because of FISA, and should he pick the Scary Vagina as VP, he could lose them completely.
I am so paranoid about Hillary being Obama’s VP. I really think that it would ruin her career forever because she would be blamed for all his mistakes. Also, what if some nutjob, gawd forbid, should try to assassinate Obama? You just know that she would be accused of being behind it.
I don’t want her anywhere near him, unless she is Presnit and he is VP. VP is a gift for someone as clueless, unqualified and unelectable as O.
Morning Arabella .. I hope the storms blow over for you soon , it cheers me to be here too , as limited as my time is
the music helps cheer me too
…. today at noon I have my other radio show .NEIGHBORHOOD RADIO @ http://www.cygnusradio.com
and anyone with comments they would like to make on the air; or if you just want to type them in to chat so i can read them .. is MORE THAN WELCOME to come and join me you can listen ; chat and still comment here .. I do it all the time
The polls, for whatever they are worth at this stage, show a drop in an already weak support for him. He is running neck and neck against McCain who is putting on one of the most lackluster and gaffe ridden campaigns so far.
If Obama is so “transcendent” and the vessel of “hope” and “change” why are the numbers so close? It says that even members of his own party are disillusioned with him and are holding out for something else.
The interest and intensity of the race has very much evaporated since Hillary’s departure. He wanted center stage well now he has it and I doubt that this is what he had in mind.
His “stature”, and I only use that term discriminatively, has diminished with time. The guy simply does not have it.
Arabella Trefoil,
You have definately been missed. I hope things are okay.
Hello PUMAs:
I think I have commented something along this lines in other blogs already:
Please, Senator Hillary Clinton, DO NOT take the VP spot. No matter how hard you work, they will still blame you for his mistakes. After using you to entice your supporters to try to win the WH, they will dump you or ignore you. You deserve respect, we deserve respect. If, due to party leadership trickery, you are not nominated, you could still do great work as a Senator for four more years, then run for President in year 2012.
I also think the Democratic Party will not change its fraudulent, vote suppressant ways any time soon. We do not want to be held hostage by the fear or anger at being called racist, or polarizing, or disuniting, when we ask for our voices to be heard or when we demand accountability from our elected leaders.
And,YES, I think the time is ripe to form the “American Progressive Party” which will attract and shelter the moderates. A party whose ideals are based on social justice, fiscal responsibility and individual freedoms.
Let’s do our best to try to have Hillary nominated to run for President this time. If not, Independent/Progressive Party will be! I’ll be ready.
I am still stuck on this fear about Hillary being VP. She has said that she will do anything to help him get elected. In this case, I am afraid that she is true to her word and that she would risk her career to do it.
Recently, in talking with people at a party who are not particularly into politics or in some cases, Republicans, they all casually “assumed” that Obama would choose Hillary as VP because it made perfect sense to them. They didn’t see all our reasons for “why not!” They assumed I would be for such a ticket, knowing my love for Hillary, and were surprised to hear differently.
OK, I will be quiet now. I’m worrying too much about this. And, Madamab, I agree. Hillary would be blamed for everything!
I work in the financial industry. Life is not always a placid pond for me, even thought I just tote data to and fro. First, I got caught holding the bag froa screw up with an XXX. Said screw up resulted in a storm of indignation and abuse from the PM’s who are all knowing and all wise. In all things.
his snafu took place in the midst of an extended “visit” from the S**. We haven’t done anything wrong, but our visitors enjoy asking for obscure pieces of paper.
We own stock in F** that went into the sH***** last week.
Now everybody is unhappy and cranky.
The economy impacts even the lowly in the world of fininace.
Obama may be “Obi-Wan-Baloney” to his followers but he’s just plain baloney to me.
Hillary Clinton is and was a candidate of substance.
Hopey, changey politics is for children and fools.
Details may be terribly boring my dears, but they are what get things accomplished. Information matters, infotainment, not so much.
I wish some of people in this country would grow up and wise up. Issues are important. Facts are important. Rock Stars and American Idol, not so much.
Obama is the the transcendent weasel of hope and change.
I call him Backtrack O’Karma now. Works for me.
Bill Clinton’s legacy will NEVER go down! Why? Because he is FOR the people! Hillary is, too. Thanks to whomever sent the link of President Clinton’s speech at the Governor’s Assoc. GREAT! Just hearing the introduction by Gov. Ed Rendell, brought floods of tears to my eyes over what could have been with Hillary as President. I will hope and pray for a miracle.
When the news headline of the day is that Angelina has had twins, what does that say about our preferred interests? Glad that she had them, glad they are healthy, but a headline?
I just put gas in my car at 4.47 a gallon. My son is paying 57.00 wkly to get to and from work, a 45 minute ride each way. I dread to think what heating oil will cost come October. I spent 5.00 yesterday on a gallon of milk. Somewhere I read that the US has agreed to back Israel should they choose to bomb Iran. Congress has approved unwarranted spying against its citizens.
And the headline is centered around an unmarried, so so movie star who has had twins in a foreign country. Good for her but what does this have to do with the price of a loaf of bread?
Or am I supposed to believe that as soon as Obama gets into the WH all will be well? Don’t think so.
Okay, I found this. I don’t know if the rest of you have seen this or not. It is my starting point to get in the face of the SD’s. Please join me by pulling your area and let’s get started. Email is not going to work.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Texas_2008_presidential_primary_and_superdelegates
DWP:
can you create an image of Teddy R and a PUMA?
In my local paper today, Pittsburgh Post Gazette Columnist Reg Henry pens a very nice piece on separation of church and state. In the article, he gives a couple of sentences to the problem of Obama’s new faith-based initiatives. It’s an intelligent read, and admonishes Obama for pandering those conservatives, saying, ” He hasn’t got a prayer of getting their vote anyway,”
May I be released from moderation please?
OBI WAN BALONEY I love this place
I have a song for your enjoyment … it is one I have been playing on my show lately .. it is a very blueeesy smooth number called
TRUST ME .. BY JOE ANDRE WHITE
some of the lyrics
He got a sharkskin suit
He likes blackberry pie …
saaayin all you got to do is “trust me “…
He make a rich man beg for mercy
He take a poor man very last dime …
Purrs like a kitten with a pit bull smile …
you can listen here to the whole song for free
http://www.joewhitemusic.com/pages/main.html
just click on the song titled TRUST
Joe is a very cool dude … besides being enormously talented he sent me a song he wrote for his daughter before he put it up on his site …. called DAUGHTER OF MINE its wonderful
and he has another one called
I WONT GO BACK …. hehehehe
Look at what information we can learn:
This guy is a wobbler – not solid for Obama – his district voted Clinton.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Charlie_Gonzalez
You learn something new every day. I was reading the wiki entry on the 1912 election and at the end it mentions that some progressives ended up moving to the more liberal Democratic Party, including one Harold Ickes, who later become FDR’s Sec. of the Interior
His son would later be one of Hillary’s most ardent supporters at the RBC meeting, while a descendent of Teddy would preside over the fiasco. Interesting….
Lakota, I worry about Hillary as VP too. I worry for all the reasons stated–a terrible, terrible position for her to to be in, ripe for blame, potentially powerless (unless BO is so GB he leaves work to VP), and perhaps ultimately unprofitable (if BO stinks up the Democratic brand so mightily he sours all her future hopes). But I worry most, most, most of all because it will be very hard for me to say no to her if she is offered the slot and decides to accept.
However, I think it’s unlikely it will be offered, or that she would say yes if it were.
We can work it now that we know who and where they are!
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Portal:Superdelegate_Transparency_Project
An Open Letter to Caroline Kennedy-July 13, 2008
http://preview.tinyurl.com/5jvtjb
You need to be a “Profile in Courage”…. because of people like those in PUMA!
Thank you, GRL. Caroline may or may not read it, but I did, and I was moved.
Profile in Courage: Hillary Clinton
It would be totally surprising to see Hillary offered and accepting of the vp slot. The intent of the DNC right along has been to rid the party of any further Clinton influence.
They may even wish to go down in defeat in November with Obama, when they will more than likely find some excuse to blame Hillary supporters, then to back down now.
It will take an act of courage on the part of some of the supers who have already pledged to Obama to switch their votes to Hillary but it could happen if he continues to plunge in the polls. This was my hope in the beginning that they wake up and see the mistake in having him at the top of the ticket.
But I don’t hold out much hope of that occurring. Presenting him at the Mile High Stadium to a crowd of 70,000, having him address Germans in front of the Brandenburg Gate, sending him to Iraq to review the troops, these efforts would prove much too embarrassing for them to turn now.
They will go the distance with fingers crossed. The DNC and their lackeys have put too much time and energy into making this happen and I doubt they will reconsider.
Personally I don’t think Bill would want Hillary to be VP. I sure don’t want her to take it ‘if’ offered. How would that look if she did NOT accept the invite to be VP? She deserves MUCH, MUCH more.
Great article.
There is no way that Obama will ask Hillary to be VP, or be forced into asking her to be VP.
I’m not worried about it.
I do so hope you are right Arabella.
I do not want to see Hillary Clinton’s legacy to end up being the first female VP and the woman that helped an incompetent, empty suit into the Oval Office.
It’s time, and long past time IMHO that women quit being used a props for men that can’t stand on their own two feet. Hillary is quite capable of standing on her own two feet and taking everything that is thrown at her. If Obi-Wan-Baloney isn’t? Too damn bad!
Good morning. It took me a half of an hour just to read through the comments.
Gary—interesting and thought-provoking piece! Everyone— good conversation!
I too am not going to worry about whether Hillary runs as VP, because I just can’t see her accepting and because I’m staying focused on doing everything possible to get her on the top of the ticket. She is a political “animal” (PUMA) not “a woman who stands by her man like Tammy Wynette”.
I think that we can find out what the options are about starting a new party and/or if she would be interested in running as an independent, and what would be the deadline to be included on the November ballot. Then we can either look further into it and pursue that path, or put the idea of working on starting a new party (IPD) or joining and empowering an existing party (Working Families), on the back burner for now, depending on the deadline info.
And I am definitely not going to worry about HRC choosing BO as her VP, because she knows that he could never be a strong leader now, if something should happen to her. She would not choose him because it would make her legacy very bad if he had to finish her term.
I am going to look at Carol’s list of Super Delegates and see what I can do, and at Janis’ fantastic ads and see what I can do. BTW, are the Denver Group working with those ads, and are they looking at buying space in the NYT, and the Washington Post? When Hill’s debt is paid off we can start fund raisers for work on getting her in, Carol?
that first picture reminds me of my old days with windows95, although it is good i have grown up from there.
I’m in for fund raising until I die – which technically could be any minute if I don’t rest!
Until then, party on!
I already have info on 6 SD’s in Texas
1 – an hour from my house (he can expect me to visit)
2 – now a Texas Supreme Court and adjunct professor UT Law (wonder what he thinks about Rezko)
3 wobbling and his district voted Clinton
4 Cheerleader Decency Bill – wonder what he thinks about “ho’s”
Our job can be done!
[...] PUMA=Bull Moose? (by garychapelhill at The Confluence) Something tells me that Bill Clinton is a die hard PUMA. In a speech to the Governor’s Association meeting, Bill extolled the virtues of the original progressive, Teddy Roosevelt… John McCain seemed to be channeling Bill as well when he made a similar observaton… Could this be a coded message to PUMAS, from both Bill Clinton and McCain? As I’m sure Clinton knows, Teddy knew a thing or two about being run out of his party. In fact, TR and Hillary have a lot in common. Click through for a very interesting history lesson, including the reminder that Roosevelt didn’t sit still for rejection by the Republican party bosses. He started a third party. [...]
[...] PUMA=Bull Moose? (by garychapelhill at The Confluence) Something tells me that Bill Clinton is a die hard PUMA. In a speech to the Governor’s Association meeting, Bill extolled the virtues of the original progressive, Teddy Roosevelt… John McCain seemed to be channeling Bill as well when he made a similar observaton… Could this be a coded message to PUMAS, from both Bill Clinton and McCain? As I’m sure Clinton knows, Teddy knew a thing or two about being run out of his party. In fact, TR and Hillary have a lot in common. Click through for a very interesting history lesson, including the reminder that Roosevelt didn’t sit still for rejection by the Republican party bosses. He started a third party. [...]
Look what someone posted on Pumapac. Howie wants to hear from us….go to it!!!!!
PLEASE post this link.
http://www.youtube.com/demconvention
Howard wants to hear from us.
That’s precisely the picture of a puma I printed out and mailed back to the DNC in their postage-paid envelope.
[...] PUMA=Bull Moose? [image]Something tells me that Bill Clinton is a die hard PUMA. In a speech to the Governor’s Association [...] [...]
There are a couple problems IMO w/the analysis.
1. A split Democratic party means McCain as president.
2. Hilary Clinton practices right-wing DINO politics.
If a split party describe as in the above scenario were to occur then I (and many I believe) would vote my conscience and vote for the Greens.
The only time a party split and its nominee won was Truman.
IMO the PUMAs are dreaming, which is of course their right.
maxx–
#1–we would rather have mccain than Obama
#2–Obama voted yes on FISA, backtracked on Iraq withdrawal, supports further limiting abortion, is pro death penalty, and is contemplating putting a Rep. on the ticket (Hagel). Now who is the DINO????
you’re not only dreaming, you’re a freaking nightmare. At least get some new talking points before you come back.
Remember they made Teddy R take the VP slot under McKinley to shut him up. The republicans elite never supported Teddy R and wanted to quickly stop him from running for another term .
good point linda, I forgot that he actually became president as the result of McKinley’s assassination. I guess that’s even more reason to hope clinton doesn’t take the VP. If they offer it to her, it will be for the exact reason the Republicans forced it onto TR
[...] I won’t go into detail with that too much because The Confluence has mentioned it here: http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2008/07/13/pumabull-moose/ Then there is FDR in 1932. What happened to him was a mirror image of what’s beginning [...]
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