Ever wonder why there’s nothing growing in those fields on the Obama logo?

In 2000, many of us wondered how George W Bush could come from a state like Texas and profess to be independent from the influence of big oil interests.  Some of us wondered how, as President, he would work to achieve energy independence when he was so closely tied to moneyed groups who clearly didn’t want to change the status quo.  His answer?  “Yeah, but wouldn’t you love to have a beer with me?”

Fast-Forward to 2008.  This time the candidate is from a large corn-producing state.  Some of his biggest backers have ties to the industry.  So Again, some of us ask, how can he promise to help us achieve energy independence when he is so closely tied to corn/ethanol production? Especially after he has consistently shown himself to be a candidate that makes promises he has no intention to keep.  Well, but “We’re the ones we’ve been waiting for”, so there!

I don’t claim to know much about Ethanol, but the following article in the New York Times caught my eye.  Hopefully some of our readers who know more about these things can enlighten us further in comments (I’m thinking about you, dotcommodity). 

Mr. Obama is running as a reformer who is seeking to reduce the influence of special interests. But like any other politician, he has powerful constituencies that help shape his views. And when it comes to domestic ethanol, almost all of which is made from corn, he also has advisers and prominent supporters with close ties to the industry at a time when energy policy is a point of sharp contrast between the parties and their presidential candidates.

In the heart of the Corn Belt that August day, Mr. Obama argued that embracing ethanol “ultimately helps our national security, because right now we’re sending billions of dollars to some of the most hostile nations on earth.” America’s oil dependence, he added, “makes it more difficult for us to shape a foreign policy that is intelligent and is creating security for the long term.”

It also helps “big corn” interests as well.  And it seems that Obama is quite tight with “big agriculture”, contrary to his message of ending the influence of lobbyists and special interests in Washington.  In addition, one of his top advisers, former Sen. Tom Daschle, sure seems like a lobbyist, even though he vehemently denies it:

Nowadays, when Mr. Obama travels in farm country, he is sometimes accompanied by his friend Tom Daschle, the former Senate majority leader from South Dakota. Mr. Daschle now serves on the boards of three ethanol companies and works at a Washington law firm where, according to his online job description, “he spends a substantial amount of time providing strategic and policy advice to clients in renewable energy.”…Mr. Daschle, a national co-chairman of the Obama campaign, said in a telephone interview on Friday that his role advising the Obama campaign on energy matters was limited. He said he was not a lobbyist for ethanol companies, but did speak publicly about renewable energy options and worked “with a number of associations and groups to orchestrate and coordinate their activities,” including the Governors’ Ethanol Coalition.

But he’s not a lobbyist. Nooo.  Even though he works at a law firm that just happens to have the following mission statement on their web page:

“Our Washington office takes advantage of its location in the nation’s capital and focuses on helping clients transition the  gap from the development of legislation, public policy and regulations to implementation.”  
Dennis Garris
Maybe Daschle is confused by the address of the law firm.  See, they don’t have the usual K St. address.  No, they’re actually a couple blocks down on F St.  Regardless, the above statement pretty much sounds like what a lobbyist does, doesn’t it?
So why, you might ask, am I so down on ethanol production?  At least Obama is trying to get us off of our oil dependence, right?  Well, maybe not so much.  Obama is a champion of subsidies to ag giants, like ADM, to produce more corn for ethanol production.  But it turns out that corn isn’t really all that efficient for making ethanol, as Obama’s opponent John McCain points out:

Mr. McCain advocates eliminating the multibillion-dollar annual government subsidies that domestic ethanol has long enjoyed. As a free trade advocate, he also opposes the 54-cent-a-gallon tariff that the United States slaps on imports of ethanol made from sugar cane, which packs more of an energy punch than corn-based ethanol and is cheaper to produce.

“We made a series of mistakes by not adopting a sustainable energy policy, one of which is the subsidies for corn ethanol, which I warned in Iowa were going to destroy the market” and contribute to inflation, Mr. McCain said this month in an interview with a Brazilian newspaper, O Estado de São Paulo. “Besides, it is wrong,” he added, to tax Brazilian-made sugar cane ethanol, “which is much more efficient than corn ethanol.”

Obama’s position is clear.  He is all for the subsidies.  He doesn’t really explain why he is, other than the usual vague responses about it creating “security for the long term”.  I think it has more to do with where he is getting his money from:

Mr. Obama’s lead advisor on energy and environmental issues, Jason Grumet, came to the campaign from the National Commission on Energy Policy, a bipartisan initiative associated with Mr. Daschle and Bob Dole, the Kansas Republican who is also a former Senate majority leader and a big ethanol backer who had close ties to the agribusiness giant Archer Daniels Midland.

Not long after arriving in the Senate, Mr. Obama himself briefly provoked a controversy by flying at subsidized rates on corporate airplanes, including twice on jets owned by Archer Daniels Midland, which is the nation’s largest ethanol producer and is based in his home state.

But isn’t it worth it if we can have a cleaner, cheaper energy source like ethanol?  Well, according to many experts it is neither cleaner nor cheaper. 

Many economists, consumer advocates, environmental experts and tax groups have been critical of corn ethanol programs as a boondoggle that benefits agribusiness conglomerates more than small farmers. Those complaints have intensified recently as corn prices have risen sharply in tandem with oil prices and corn normally used for food stock has been diverted to ethanol production…

Corn ethanol generates less than two units of energy for every unit of energy used to produce it, while the energy ratio for sugar cane is more than 8 to 1. With lower production costs and cheaper land prices in the tropical countries where it is grown, sugar cane is a more efficient source.

It is disturbing that not only does this affect energy prices, people might actually go hungry because of this kickback to big agriculture.  The NY Times even goes so far as to say that this might actually benefit oil companies as well, not to mention the legality of the subsidies:

Mr. Obama, in contrast, favors the subsidies, some of which end up in the hands of the same oil companies he says should be subjected to a windfall profits tax. In the name of helping the United States build “energy independence,” he also supports the tariff, which some economists say may well be illegal under the World Trade Organization’s rules but which his advisers say is not.

And before anyone accuses me or the Times of being shills for the Republican candidate on this issue, I found this tidbit from the website of California Sen. Dianne Feinstein:

There’s just one catch: According to scientists in New York and California, it takes more energy to make ethanol than you get back in fuel savings. More precisely, says David Pimentel of Cornell University, it takes the equivalent of 1.29 gallons of gasoline to produce enough ethanol to replace one gallon of gasoline at the pump. Instead of making the nation more energy self-sufficient, ethanol production actually increases our need for oil and gas imports, Pimentel says.

 So let’s be clear.  Obama says he is against lobbyists and special interests, yet he employs lobbyists in his campaign and flies around on corporate jets.  He says he is for a greener economy, but supports subsidies that actually harm the environment and may actually contribute to world hunger.  So am I too harsh when I call Barack Obama a BIG FAT LIAR?  I don’t think so, do you?

173 Responses

  1. I am with you gary. Need more information from someone who is well versed in this subject and speaks on my level to aid me in understanding.

    Obama and his special interest ties. Will it ever end?

  2. Ethanol is for drinking.

    And everyone knows drinking and driving don’t mix.

  3. Corn ethanol is a horrible product. it takes more oil input than you get ethanol output. Further, it’s making food too expensive for the poor here and abroad. This is one of the things I really admired about Hill. She was chaging the dailouge on ethanol, and focusing on wind, geothermal and solar. McCain was right about corn ethanol, and the tarriffs on sugar ethanol, which he argues we should get rid of. He actually has a much better record on this issue than Obama. Now we are stuck with two candidates who are both pro-nuclear power, which I vehemently oppose(I’m in good company, Al Gore opposes nuclear power as well). This makes me worry that McCain is actually the better choice, because at least if it’s a Repub arguing for it, the Dems will likely fight it. They won’t if it is one of their own.

  4. Nice post, the more that is written about him, the emptier that suit becomes.

  5. The corn growers love ethanol. It keeps crop prices high.

  6. Gary – He is the biggest, fattest, liar liar, pants on fire!

    The biggest problem with Obama is his pure lack of being able to take his big dollar education and apply it to the real world.

    Brazil is on the sugar cane fuel system. Isn’t that the fastest, cheapest, eco-friendliest system?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil

  7. I think what i found most shocking is that Obama says he is cutting lobbyists out of the loop, yet Daschle is clearly a lobbyist and one of his top advisors. If you notice, both the aide mentioned in the story and Bob Dole both work for that same law firm

  8. What happened to my post?

    Brazil uses sugar cane and is free from the middle east terrorists.

  9. Sugar ethanol is a better product. We should get rid of that terriff and allow the US to import it.

  10. Here is a link to the Wall Street Journal article titled “Harry Reid’s glass slippers”

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121417592419495325.html?mod=opinion_main_review_and_outlooks

    Sure looks like a change from the old Washington style partisan politics. A teaser of the kind of ethical politics that the US will see in the next eight years.

  11. You find that shocking, Gary? I’ve recognized that since the beginning.

  12. He’s just a politician. Blah blah blah. Newsflash: this is politics. If you’re so much in advance of him, run for office yourself.

  13. he he….masslib, I guess shocking isn’t the word…maybe maddening…thanks for the edit :)

  14. Obama, the Margaret Hamilton of the primary season. The empty suit who just keeps getting smaller and smaller until, poof!

  15. When I read the story at MSN, I found it amusing that Daschle is not a lobbyist. So if a cat calls itself a dog, and a dog calls itself a rat, what is the rat? Or are they all just cats, dogs and rats?

  16. NOOOOO canellopi, he’s the change we’ve been waiting for. Post political. Don’t start defending him now with the same argument you used to trash Hillary, you hypocrite.

  17. I GOT THROWN INTO MODERATION

  18. But Gary that is the argument I am starting to hear. Bots are now saying, yeah he did flip flop and maybe he is corrupt but this is politics and they all are.

    My answer is, just one week ago, I was supposed to support him because he stands for change and not old Washington ways. But today, he is old Washington ways, but I’m not supposed to vote McCain, because he is Bush, Jr.

    It is like a cat chasing his tail.

  19. I hate being moderated. I’m a liberal, not a moderate.

  20. He’s just a politician. Blah blah blah. Newsflash: this is politics. If you’re so much in advance of him, run for office yourself.

    This is what we are left with from Obama supporters as their reason to support Obama.

  21. Kim, maybe the paradox of their position will cause them to self-destruct

  22. For months it was change and hope. Now, all I am hearing are the various reasons I can’t vote McCain. No one has ever given me one solid, informed reason to vote for Obama.

    They are starting to realize that they effed up, but the pill is just to bitter to swallow, so they justify and justify and justify.

  23. It’s all a result of Nixon’s Ag Secretary, Earl Butz destroying the New Deal agriculture policies back in the 70’s.
    Farm subsidies used to be like an insurance program for farmers against crop failure or low prices. And they promoted conservation by paying for some land to be left unplanted some years.

    Butz’s policies changed the subsidies to only award production, which started a spiral effect. Prices went down, so farmers had to grow more to get by, so prices went down further, etc. Until now we’re left with nothing but huge farms overproducing massive amounts of corn, and the farmers living almost soley on subsidies.

    This overproduction of corn is why nowadays, nearly every product you buy has corn in it. Corn syrup, corn starch, ascorbic acid, emulsifiers, and dozens of other ingredients. They needed to find something to do with all the damned corn. Which is exactly why corn ethanol has been pushed so hard. They need to do something with the corn and see ethanol as a way to make money off it.

    But ethanol is energy ineffecient. And while corn may be a “renewable resource”, the methods of farming it in this overproductive manner are eroding and destroying some of the most fertile land in the world. Ultimately, corn ethanol is just as untenable as a energy source as petroleum.

    And Obama’s devotion to the big ethanol interests is just another way in which he’s allied himself against the ideals and policies of New Deal progressives.

  24. Corn Ethanol is very bad for the enviornment too. When I lived at the coast, a lot of the locals fought a corn ethanol processing plant that could have meant major environmental disaster to the coast if there had been an accident.

  25. Many of them cited their whole reason for not voting for Hillary was she was old Washington Politics and now we have trolls here saying well this is politics.

    Pulling my hair saying AAARGGHH!!!!

  26. The change we’ve been waiting for turns out to be the same old insider games.

  27. The Obama hard core will never give up on their Leader. Not evah.

    They are in for a shock. Most voters will decline to drink the kool ade.

    puma

  28. More and more I see this nomination as an insider coup against the independence of Hillary.

  29. The sad part is all the effort to sell corn products doesn’t help the farmers that much. It helps the big “agribusinesses” like Archer Daniels Midland.

  30. Cannellopi

    Are you local? This is a local blog for local people. We’ll have no trouble here.

    The League of Gentlemen

  31. Even if it made every farmer rich, it is still bad policy.

  32. I was sent an email this morning on the air car. Have any of you seen the info on it? It runs on compressed air. It would seem that if we have something that runs on air, why would we even be talking about ethanol?

  33. kim, if you get a chance watch “who killed the electric car” we already have the technology to get off oil….

  34. This car looked great. Went 68 mph, had to be reiared up every couple of hours and the air was $1.28.

    I don’t know if I can stomach yet another documentary, watched the one this weekend on credit card industry. Nauseated me.

  35. In rural economics, the debate is ongoing. The question turns on a number of constants and variables, such as the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics, the principle of net yield, the law of diminishing returns, and the applicable ethic and its effect on distribution.

    For the most part, we need to consider the relationship between the value we get from using biomass as a somewhat renewable source of hydrocarbon energy or food energy and the value we could get from other uses.

    Some say that the energy costs make the ethanol trade a zero sum shell game. This appears to be the view of the economists in my department. I have not studied enough to pass judgment. What is unequivocal is that land used to produce biofuel is not producing food. What is also unequivocal is that the methods that are being used to grow the corn or grain are not sustainable because they mine the soil. Accordingly, questions that concern how we ought to use our everincreasingly scarce resources are becoming easier to answer because our choices are becoming as denuded as the soils that they are predicated upon.

  36. Totally off topic, but I have wanted to ask Gary, that is the cutest puppy, what kind is it?

  37. Ah, meet the new boss same as the old boss.

  38. What puppy?

  39. I think it is Gary that has the cutest puppy as his avatar.

  40. BTD at Talk Left against PUMA:

    http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/6/23/124743/678

  41. JLecru-you are so right! Now, they need to take that darned high fructose corn syrup out of all our food because they are making us fat and diabetic. Since they have come up with ethanol to use the corn, now we have the get the food companies to take that stuff out and lower our prices. Nah, that’ll never happen.

  42. JLecru: Thank you for that informative post. Very interesting. My husband, daughter and I watched a good DVD (and entertaining) called “King Korn.” Go rent it – it will show you what this is all about. Scary stuff, indeed.

  43. Kim, he is a half maltese half shi-tzu. His name is Macho.

  44. I am contacting all the heads of groups/blogs/sites to come together for a meeting to establish a cohesive voice that will make the media, the DNC and Obama to take notice. We are stronger in numbers and we must unite. Please email me at mac4puma@gmail.

  45. Mac4hill: Isn’t that just say no deal?

    Mawm where did PUMA originate? Not that it matters, but wasn’t it here?

  46. MAWM: Too cute!

  47. Is being cast into moderation what happens when your post doesn’t appear? I am not now a moderate, have never been a moderate, but may have been in moderation, which might be some kind of rehab or purgatory.

  48. I’m cured!

  49. Would love to hear a Lewis Black rant on the flip flopping positions of Obama. Trying to make black into white, night into day. Only Lewis could do it full measure with his hair standing up on end and his eyes twirling in his sockets.

  50. PUMA started here but quickly went viral.

    Like all good liberal movements, it is disorganized and only loosely unified.

    We lefties never were good at falling in line.

  51. One of the regular bloggers, SM, created the PUMA slogan. It rapidly caught on.

  52. King Corn really is a good, informative and entertaining documentary. There’s also more in-depth info about the industrialized corn business in the first part of Michael Pollan’s (interviewed in King Corn) book “The Omnivore’s Dilemma.”
    The book, as a whole, is primarily focused on the different food production systems in the US (Industrial, organic-industrial, sustainable agriculture, wild), but the part on Industrial has a lot of good discussion on corn subsidies and how they work/came about, and touches on ethanol, too.

  53. My daughter in law recommended “The Omnivore’s Dilemma” last week. I ordered it from Amazon as a matter of fact. The excerpts are quite interesting.

  54. Miriam just showed up and posted a reply on yesterday’s thread “Sticking up for your friends”

    I guess she thought she could sneak in and get the last word.

  55. There are now over 165 postings to today’s earlier diary over at HuffPo and recommended by Mawm.

    Most are pro PUMA and it must feel good to be able to appear on that website again without being censored or erased. The few arguments offered against are the usual “you are a racist” but those were cut off at the knees in most instances.

    Thank God we are not in the wilderness alone anymore. Most posters have seen through the subtrafuge and manipulations.

    Hear us, DNC. We will not be silenced!

  56. myiq2xu,

    They always try to sneak in when no one is around and leave their turds. It is amazing to me how predictably Obama supporters follow in a pattern

  57. I have something to post, but there doesn’t seem to be anyone around. Is there a good time to post?

  58. You are absolutely right that most of the PUMA pacs are disorganized and they are not in step with the objective of getting Senator Clinton to be our nominee in August. That is why I am requesting all heads of blogs/sites/groups to come together so we may have unity in numbers. The clock is ticking and we need a cohesive plan of action. I am not looking for bots, I am looking for dedicated supporters of HRC.
    mac4puma@gmail.com

  59. Miriam came back again, and tried to change the subject, acting like the issue was media coverage or something.

    That post was about intimidation and abuse directed at Hillary supporters and/or Obama critics, specifically Paulie Abeles.

  60. Most ethanol production requires 3-4 gallons of water per gallon of ethanol produced. While I was searching for this information, I did find there is a new production method which will require less than a gallon of water per gallon of ethanol. The process (old and new) is at this link…there is even a graphic!

    http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1286/

  61. Obama has used his influence to promote ethanol, which his financial backers want, but it has come at a heavy price for poor people around the world. Oh, did I mention that many of those poor people are black? Or is that a card that only Obama can play?

    Now his supporters are saying he’s just a politician. That’s not an excuse for someone who ran on the audacity of hope and ran against the “old politics.” That is not a comfort to those living in poverty who can’t afford food as it becomes a speculator’s commodity. The agribusiness and the Chicago traders are making their next million off those who can least afford to pay. Which side are you on, Obama? Or should I ask, “Which side are you on today?”

  62. Annie Oakley: Hurrah! Nicely put.

  63. Yes, thank you again, JLecru!! I third the nomination for “The Omivore’s Dilemma.” My husband read it and just raved about it. Being informed, to me, is probably the most important thing that any of us, as voters and as citizens can do in this world we live in. I fear that many of our young people are not being equipped nor taught to do their own thinking and finding out for themselves about the issues that are important. To me, this is why we may make yet another mistake in choosing our leader. (Note I said MAY.)

  64. Misspelled Omnivore. Sorry!

  65. And don’t forget one of his largest contributors is the nuclear power industry. Remember Lie #4,722: he was bragging all over Iowa about the legislation he passed to force the nuclear power industry to disclose leaks. Oops…well, actually, he didn’t pass the legislation, and instead he watered it down to the point where disclosures were “voluntary” because Exelon wasn’t very happy with him.

    He’s such a warrior. Not.

    Where, oh where, is our Warrior Queen?

  66. CNN just reported – A group of women are awaiting Obama for a speech in NM. Don’t worry, while tied to their chairs with their apron strings, the tape across their mouths doesn’t look too tight.

  67. Oh god, Carol, are you effing kidding??? A group of women? How transparent can you be?

    You all should see the thread on TL about PUMAs. The non-PUMAs are so clueless about the movement.

  68. just read that obama and clinton will appear together in Unity, NH. I hope that PUMA is going to be there to protest…this is a perfect opportunity to make our case

  69. maddening of you Gary to post Mon AM!,

    would love to weigh in at detail here on this media breakthrough (yeah!) (maybe they googled Al Gore Superdelegate Obama ethanol and read my research… ;-) ), but if I don’t get some work done today we’ll be homeless at chez dotcommodity’s!!

    See y’all tonite.

  70. but one thing.

    ethanol is worse than FISA. I simply am at a loss as to why my beseachments about ethanol/Obama went unconcerned at the cheat o place, while their panties all in a twist over mere loss of Democracy.

    The wrong choice on clean energy can end civilization.

    Fascism can be corrected: see Germany/Japan.

  71. McCain’s electric car plan sounds like a good one. I think Dems need to realize they are not running against your average Republican.

  72. I’m listening to Obama right now trying to atract working women.

    I’m trying to be open-minded but he just did what i hoped he wouldnt do, which is to start by talking about his mother and grandmother. I was hoping that he would start by focusing on what he is going to do to help working women, not on the fact that he had a mother and a grandmother, which i bet McCain also had

  73. Obama is about to launch a “Joshua” campaign this summer with Catholic and Evangelical youth leading the way.

    Apparently he recently met in Chicago with 40 different religious leaders led by Franklin Graham for the purpose of the youth vote combined with a religious theme.

    This guy would genuflect before a Big Boy statue for a vote. Obviously his idea of separation of church and state means only that they travel on different buses. And he is supposedly a constitutional lawyer.

    I thought we all had had enough of religion being forced upon us with the Bush Administration. What is the difference here that I may be missing? This man is a phony.

  74. I just read on No Quarter that there does not exist a video or evidence from print or TV media that Obama ever made the speech against the War.

    Am I the last one hearing this?

    That lying little F*#K.

  75. Carol: Was there supposed to be? Did he say that? This is one I missed.

  76. This guy really is the Manchurian Candidate!

  77. All we have heard is he made a speech against the war! He was so brave to go against conventional wisdom!

    This guy is a total and complete fraud!

  78. We have all come to recognize that had he been in the Senate at the time of that vote he would either have been in the men’s room or have totally capitulated like most everyone else.

    Giving him credit for saying he would not have voted for it is akin to giving him votes he did not earn when he took his name off the Michigan ballot!

  79. I think I have seen th soundbite against the war vote. The speech wasn’t much, because he was still just a state senator.

  80. hey pat, or anyone else posting over at huffpost….don’t forget to point out how vile, sexist, racist, and vulgar her 23/6 website is.(I found a video they did on youtube that has KIDS!!! saying they don’t like Hillary because they think she is really a man..UGGGHHHH) If they can look at that stuff and still call you a racist with a straight face, then they are def. a lost cause.

  81. Carol, there was supposedly no recording of the event, so Axelrod and Obama went into a studio and recreated it.

    Don’t you believe them?

  82. pat, not in the men’s room, but out back having a smoke….

  83. gary, let me check.

  84. Yes, clearly wind is superior to ethanol. But sugar ethanol is far superior to corn.

  85. Just got an email from Sierra Club endorsing Obama. Did this just happen?

    I sent an angry [sorry, RD] email unsubscribing. Why didn’t they endorse Hillary, by far the better environmental candidate? Why is Obama considered better than McCain on the environment?

    I’m just so angry over this kneejerk progressive reaction that the Dem must be better. I’m not supporting that kind of community anymore.

  86. gary: So far 175 responses. We are up to page 2. Bet by 8pm we will have reached 5 pages.

    Looks like it is running about 70-30, favor us. What is most impressive if you read the posts, those on our side have substantial arguments and are very well versed and articulate.

    The other side, not so much. The usual racist back and forth comments.

    Looks like Mawm, Kim, and I took some early hits but those joining in now are definitely holding up quite well. Our side seems to have coherency in its favor, the other side, again, no so much.

  87. “Why is Obama considered better than McCain on the environment?”

    Exactly. What a joke.

  88. masslib,
    DId you know even wind could be bad for the enviornment? A study was done that tried to measure the effects wind turbines would have if there were enough of them to power our current energy needs. The scientists concluded that the wind turbines would have the effect of completely altering the earth’s weather patterns.

    The point of their study I believe was to show that we need many different types of renewable energy sources, that we cannot rely on one type alone.

  89. But here in MA Teddy nixed wind turbines from the coastline. Blocked his view from the compound. Kid you not, that was the reason. So we will never know if that theory is correct or not. The Atlantic is far more volitile than the Pacific, especially up north in NE.

  90. Ah, yes the compound. Ya gotta love those progressive liberals, only when it’s convenient, eh?

    Just received an email from Hillary and once again I was misting up. Yes, she’s looking for money but, boy, can she give a speech. And I’m talking about a REAL speech….
    http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/specialthankyou/?sc=1905&utm_source=1905&utm_medium=e

  91. Pat, i think Cape Wind is going ahead anyway. That’s what I heard.

    I hear you Mawn, but wind is a good source of energy, along with geothermal and solar.

  92. Elixir: I just got mine as well. I cannot watch the video just yet. Too emotional right now. She is lovely.

  93. I hate to say it but she looks tired and a little ragged. I hope all is well and she’s getting some well deserved rest.

  94. masslib: Thanks for the update. I thought they had scrubbed that idea because of Teddy’s positioning.

  95. OK, god damn it, I am going to cry. I’ve gotta stop watching that video. She looks tired and sad. Crap.

  96. where is Bill? I haven’t seen him since the speech on the 7th.

  97. I saw the video & also thought she looked tired. Maybe it was just the lighting? I like thinking of her resting, taking care of herself, getting recharged.

  98. I cannot watch it. It is just another reminder of what we had and what we have lost as a result. And as much love and admiration I have for her, I will not vote Obama under any circumstances even if she came to my door and personally begged.

  99. I have been telling everyone I know that Obama’s energy policy is right out of the Nixon era and Earl Butz, but only recently have I seen any agreement. There is a comment above by JLecru and there was a farm expert on a talking heads show (when and what program I can’t remember). Truly, this is where it is comes from. TheGreatGeno on wordpress is an Obama supporter, but a thoughtful one, who did a comparison between Hillary Clinton’s energy policy and Obama’s. He didn’t find a lot of difference, but he was going by the policy positions on their websites. He thinks ethanol is wrongheaded, and he works in ecology. I don’t want to misrepresent him; he did think Obama’s policy was better. I disagree. He was looking more at similarities: cap and trade, and so forth. But others here have noted Hillary’s support for wind, solar, etc. that is much stronger than Obama’s policies, especially when he began his candidacy. The Sierra Club has endorsed him, which almost made me leave the club, but McCain blew it by supporting offshore drilling. A recent government report shows that there are already enough gas and oil leases granted on BLM lands to produce oil but that it would be counterproductive. Only Clinton had a workable energy policy and the foresight to start building green jobs. Obama doesn’t know where to begin. And the press is worried about McCain having a conflict of interest b/c his wife owns a beer distributorship! Like the corn growers aren’t happy line Obama’s pockets!

  100. Gary,

    You are the greatest. How do you do it? One interesting post after another.

    Anyway, I’m so excited. I got a solicitation from Obama today. I wrote something after every one of the points in the form letter. I told him I would work to defeat him and Kerry in MA. I pointed out the lies, I said he won by stealing delagates and gaming the caucuses. And so on. I know whoever opens the envelope will think I’m nuts, but I couldn’t care less. On the pledge card, I check other and wrote BZero–thanks Prolix. It felt good.

  101. gary: He made a speech over the weekend in Miami. No idea what it was for but he refused to answer reporters who asked if he was going to support Obama. He just smiled and kept signing autographs. I read this somewhere today.

  102. Help retire her debt, Please.

  103. Well, without a break in her stride the Great Lady resumes her work in the Senate. And here I was crying over her video…sorry folks, I’m an old softie. Good for her, she will do more good back in the senate while highlighting the blatant facts that she has the chops to get things done.

    Back in the saddle starting tomorrow: Clinton Back in Senate Tuesday.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080622/pl_afp/usvotepoliticsclinton_080622170714

  104. bb: I received one too from Obama. Having a hard time deciding how I will respond. I have sent back two already within the last few weeks and they still have me on the mailer.
    NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.

    How often and how many times must I say it? NO

  105. I think wind turbines would look pretty from the coast.

  106. Wouldn’t it be sweet if Hillary gets some serious heavy lifting done on meaningful issues while Obama straddles positions on wedge issues?

  107. Carol: I have sent some money already. Plan on doing more next week. She needs to go out with her head held high.

  108. bb: If not already, plan on some powerful thunderstorms heading your way. Thunder, lightening, high winds, like a monsoon here all day. Pouring like cats and dogs out there since 9am.

  109. can any of you MA puma’s make it to the unity show in Unity, NH? That’s where clinton is going to be campaigning with Obama on thurs. the town name, along with the fact that they tied there in votes (109 each) is the backdrop for brining the party back together (they are calling it “uniting for change”) I guess it doesn’t hurt that it is in the middle of nowhere so no one can disrupt it. But I know a lot of you are from up that way and I would LOVE to see some PUMA’s prowling around Unity :)

  110. We took some hits but they were for a cause and it felt good.

  111. Southern Illinois produces quite a bit of coal. In addition to pushing ethanol (not good for the environment), Obama also pushes “clean coal” (that isn’t clean and is bad for the environment.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/AR2007010901503.html

  112. I tried posting this earlier, but it didn’t go through, I guess.

    Yesterday, I posted at
    http://boards.insessiontrials.com/forumdisplay.php?s=9672bd4dd47d7c32844fd343d2bbc
    d76&forumid=509 in the morning. I went out for the day and when I came home at 8
    pm, it was gone – erased. There were about 170 views before I left.

    Today, in Presidential Elections entitled A reason for which McCain will not get a single
    vote from Hillary Supporters, a poster asked if they get rid of posters who oppose
    Obama. They got rid of my post.

    This message board is run by TruTV (formerly Court TV) and I have been a member for
    over a year. I have been reading this blog for two weeks, posted only once, but have
    been trying to do what I can .

    This is what I posted:
    Title: Hillary Supporters
    Within 2 weeks, Hillary supporters have a coalition of 80 groups and a million women -
    some have changed their registration to Independent, have stopped donating to the DNC
    and will not be voting for Obama with the hope that Hillary will run again in 2012. They
    feel disenfranchised by their party leaders.

    The coalition is under http://justsaynodeal.com/index.html

    This was started by PUMA (People United Means Action) http://blog.pumapac.org/

    http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/

    They are planning on marching in Denver at the Democratic convention. Howard Dean is
    trying to get Hillary off the convention ballot.

    http://www.18millionvoices.blogspot.com/

    Since, this morning they have removed the thread about Hillary supporters not voting for McCain. There were two Hillary supporters who posted that they were going to vote for McCain. That is probably the reason why.

  113. mawm (re: wind energy)

    it can also harm wildlife and pose threats to ecosystems. it’s too bad. i’ve liked wind energy for a long time.

    http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2005/10/69177

  114. elixir,
    I agree, Hillary looks very tired in that video. I wonder when it was made.

    I have a concern re: her request on her web site with the video – I don’t want to assist her in raising $ for Obama which it sounds like she will use the web site for, doesn’t it?

    “You and Hillary can write the next chapter of America’s history together. By helping us pay off our campaign debt, you’re not just helping Hillary elect a Democratic president and grow our majority in Congress. You’re making it possible for her to work as hard as she can on the issues we care about.”

  115. I watched the video Hillary sent out, and it made me tear up. Dang it. I contributed a bit more to retire her debt. I’m sick at heart to think of her campaigning for the guy but… what will be, will be.

    As to the ethanol, I hate it, hate it, hate it. My partner and I grow organic vegetables for a CSA and we raise dairy goats. We started about 6 years ago with the goats. The price of hay has shot through the roof due to two factors, the ethanol boondoggle (more land put into production for corn than for hay, so hay goes up) and the price of fuel. Before this we’ve always been able to weather the ups and downs in agriculture. We are small fry, so will never get any help from the government, and don’t really want it. But we can’t raise prices to pay for the hay, not yet. And we are going to have to raise prices on the CSA just to pay for the fuel to run or few implements..

    Oh well, worries, worries. We all have them. Corn ethanol sucks. Wind, water, sugar ethanol, all are better.

  116. Wind is a good source of energy.

  117. I agree about helping to retire Hillary’s debt. I can’t remember the exact quote, but Donna Brazile made a snide remark about that debt in an email to a Hillary supporter, and I recall being just furious at her attifude & tone of her as a DNC official.

    As for the environment, in this no-conservation, desperate for fossil fuel, anything for cheap gas culture, I just know that those of us living in Appalachia are just totally screwed.

  118. I’ve never understood why they can’t figure out how to use the sun properly. It is afterall the source of most of the energy in this world (a tiny bit is geo-thermal).

    We need to go to the source. I believe that will prove to be the most efficient and clean, but I’m no scientist.

  119. “Donna Brazile made a snide remark about that debt in an email to a Hillary supporter”

    That’s right — I’d forgotten about that.

    All the more reason to help out Hillary.

  120. masslib, sorry for introducing that comment on wind. I do believe wind is a good source. The study cited was based on an enormous amount of wind turbines, something that no one is proposing. They were doing the study as if there were enough wind turbines around the world to get all our energy from them, so it was really theoretical. THe main point of the study was that we need to continue to explore all the different avenues to come up with something that is truly clean and renewable.

  121. Mawn, we have to have diverse energy sources. I agree.

  122. wind is a good source of energy as long as there aren’t too many turbines. there are more problems and limits than ppl realized before it had been used for a while. that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be used but it means it should be used carefully (like other energy sources should be).

    geothermal seems good. does anyone know if Iceland has problems with that? does anyone know the practical (e.g., geological) limitations of using it? the sun seems good too.

  123. Over at TL Jeralyn has her panties in a wad over the PUMA post.

  124. I really think that people who feel that PUMA’s are ‘teh awful’ aren’t really that liberal. Aren’t liberals supposed to be free-thinking and welcoming of others’ ideas?

  125. I can’t believe their forcing Hill into this unity thing on friday, can’t they just leave here alone for awhile? CNN keeps talking about how Bill Clinton isn’t giving the oborg even a passing nod …

  126. cnn is talking about clinton being mum on the oborg endorsement

  127. myiq, what’s Jeralyn’s problem?

  128. edgeof, in that video she is asking for money to pay off her debt, not for Obama.

    WTF, Bill says nothing, he is wrong. If Bill said anything, they’d be after him like they were in SC.

  129. Well I hope Bill Clinton stays out of the Oborg endorsement. What does he owe them? Absolutely nothing.

    A tiny bit of my respect for Hillary goes away when she assimilates.

    I’m going to unsub from her list too. Good idea.

  130. Excuse me, that wasn’t very coherent.

    I meant to say that if Bill said anything about Obama, they’d be on his case about it. Bill says nothing, so of course they’re on his case about it.

    Whatever he does is wrong.

  131. No, T, this is how it works.

    Only supporters of THE candidate are “responsible progressives” ….other liberals are simply “progressive trash”…

  132. Ohioana,

    I have the same concerns about where our contributions are going. The last time I checked her site the wording lead me to believe that these are “her” dollars going to her campaign. I still believe that’s all they can be, I would be very surprised if she was able to take contributions earmarked for her and shift them to another person/cause. Wouldn’t they need to set up a separate account/527/whatever for such a change?

    I think you’re money is going to help Hillary.

  133. katiebird: She doesn’t want to be affiliated with PUMA. It may be damaging in some way for her.

    I kinda think they need to turn into an Obama-love site, because when they, as diarists, criticize him, they really tempt people to talk about reasons NOT to vote for him. If reasons not to vote for him are tabu, then why invoke people’s talk about them?

  134. I totally don’t get why Hillary has to be working for Obama before the Convention. I think it’s a sick joke that she’s been asked to do that.

  135. katiebird:

    “TalkLeft is Not a PUMA Site”

    BTD brought up the subject, not us.

  136. kbird: because O is in more trouble than “they” want to admit.

    PS everything OK?

  137. there’ll be more of that when Braoken loses.

  138. Hi Upstate, I won’t hear the results until next Monday. But, the obgyn was pretty optimistic. I’m NOT going to worry….. Thank you very much for asking

  139. I just asked Jeralyn to delete my account. I won’t be needing it any longer.

  140. Elixir,

    i’m not sure but i don’t think Clinton would need a separate 527 to give money to Obama. i think she can give the contributions to whomever she wants. i know John Kerry was criticized in 2004 for not giving more of the money he’d raised to congressional and senatorial candidates. Obama has given some of the money he’s raised to superdelegates who are up for re-election.

    (I don’t think Clinton is likely to give contributions to her campaign to Obama as long as she needs $$$ to pay off her campaign debts but i think she COULD do that if she wanted to.)

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/10/21/kerry_is_pressured_to_share_campaign_wealth/

  141. I still like TL for crime and law topics, and they do (half-heartedly) criticize The Precious.

    They should pay attention, becoming a kool-aid site was like kryptonite at TM, while PUMA sites like this one are booming.

  142. I also keep my old accounts (including DK) because that allows me to prevent friends’ comments from getting troll rated out of existence.

  143. myiq2xu: How do you get your comments thru those sites? My comments are moderated into byteland even when they are temperate, mild-mannered, but still questioning. FDL is the only place I don’t get moderated into oblivion although I still get called outrageous names.

  144. Jerelyn doesn’t seem to have any idea what PUMA is. She says people can still criticize Obama and talk about voting for other people including McCain. It’s obvious she doesn’t like Obama one bit. I don’t know what she’s afraid of. I thought this comment on her post was pretty funny:

    PUMA (2.00 / 1) (#6)
    by gorby on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 02:43:10 PM EST

    is, dare i say, a huge myth, as is above talk about divided Democrats.
    Look, this was an intensely close primary. But even at the height of tensions – during key primaries when voters were asked as they left the booth – only 25 percent of HRC supporters said they wouldnt back Obama.

    Compare that to 51 percent of McCain supporters who said they wouldn’t back Bush in 2000, but virtually all of them did, and Bush won. (”won”).

    PUMA is a small group, over-amplified by the internet and certain influential HRC supporters in the media. they are a step below a footnote to history, and will soon be forgotten

    Keep telling yourself that, Gorby.

  145. Pat,

    What is the article at Huffpost you are talking about? I’ve been out most of the day and it looks like I missed a lot.

  146. I am a bit curious how in sync that NYTimes article is with politicians (especially BO). Corn ethanol is obviously a dead end; I really hope our politicians do not think otherwise. However, cellulose -> ethanol may have some promise. Frankly as far as the tariff on Brazilian ethanol goes I am strongly in favor of it but not for the reason in the article. The higher the demand for their ethanol the more rainforest gets torched never to return again.

    I kind of think McCain’s electric car battery incentives are a publicity stunt. At least he has correctly identified the problem; the battery cost/life is currently the primary drawback. He did not mention that making cheaper batteries that are resistant to damage has been the focus of tons of R&D money and bleeding edge scientific research for about the past 5 years. It will probably happen in the next 5.

  147. wooot … Cavuto giving love to PUMAs again …

    ‘Female Clinto supporters creating no Obama site”

    Larry Sabato talking about how arrogant obama’s appearing to women with the ‘get over it’ line

  148. Well, what people forget is that 51% of McCain’s support is far less than 25% of Clinton’s support.

  149. I don’t think giving money to help retire HRC’s debt is a bad thing.
    If you’re giving money to her you’re not giving it to him.
    By saying she needs your donations so she can help get a Democrat elected, she gets to keep her campaign going by looking like she’s doing all she can for him.
    Otherwise, why wouldn’t she just ask for financial support for him and let him try to pay off her debt like the media keeps saying?

  150. I will not unsubscribe to Hillary’s site. I can’t and I won’t.

  151. dakinkat:

    I don’t comment at dk or FDL anymore, just here and TL, and occasionally a couple other places.

    But giving someone else’s comment a high rating keeps it around unless the site admin deletes it.

  152. Bostonboomer:

    Did you see my reply to Gorby?

    “Yes, we are imaginary. That’s why we filled up the previous thread with our comments”

  153. myiq2xu,

    Yes, I saw that when I went over to copy his comment. When I first saw it there were only about 6 comments there. That was an excellent reply. Of course he immediately tried to diminish it. We’ll see in November who is right, won’t we?

  154. Another one for Gorby: All of Kerry’s support apparently came back and he lost.

  155. I have a better use for the new seal ..http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/SwanSpirit/OBAMWEAR1.jpg

    check out that image :) and PLEASE feel free to send it email it and use it where ever you like :)

  156. Maybe the poster above is right, maybe she needs her debt retired and he has stated unless she releases her delegates, I mean who knows. But I have come too damn far to give up on her now. I don’t care if she is not the nominee, she perservered for us and showed us what a strong woman is and I will stand up for her as long as she needs me.

  157. The Obama faux presidential seal has now been thrown under the bus! Somebody, quick, set it on fire!

  158. I leave the Confluence for a few days and….(sigh)…. I just cannot keep up…not with over 100 comments in most threads…..

    even more OT…got an 8 week old pup for son last Friday….why didn’t somebody tell me they were so much work….(OK, both wife and I grew up with dogs so we “knew”, but still…)

    Must go now…puppy is biting something, somewhere, I am certain of it.

  159. BB:

    Someone compared us to the Paultards.

    The difference is we’re not trying to elect anyone (except Hillary, if she somehow gets the nomination)

    We’re just trying to swing the election away from Obama.

    All that will take is a handful of votes in a few key states.

  160. I see another post is up, but I just have to raise my hands and cheer Kim, I agree with your last comments.

  161. Ryan,

    Your comments re McCain makes him sound like a a man with a plan when it comes to energy. Where’s Obama on that?

  162. omigosh, barrack just got rid of the seal!!!

  163. myiq2xu,

    I think that was Gorby too. He is obviously clueless.

  164. UpstateNY,

    What kind of puppy did you get?

  165. Jeralyn is deleting like mad again.

    It’s her site, but their habit of deleting so many comments is annoying

  166. Obama tossed the Possum under the bus, but will that Seal its fate?

    Don’t forget, Dukakis only took one tank ride.

  167. “Unity for Change” is the Hillary/Obama slogan.

    Might as well be “Toilets for Bathwater”.

  168. Elixer, nowhere; talk’n bout the economy somewhere I think. Neither candidate is harping on what I think is important; development of solar, wind, and cellulose fuels (and in that order).

  169. Again Folks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! UNITY NH !!!!!!!!!!!!
    okay here are the details:
    Unity NH, Unity Elementary School, 6/27/08, 12:00
    Unity is right off of I91 which makes it a reasonable trip from Springfield MA, Boston Ma, Hartford CT, Albany NY, and of course parts of NH and VT. You can map quest it and simply put in Unity Elementary School in place of “business” Unity is a town of only 1,700 so I doubt that there will be a crowd of 10,000. A couple hundred Puma’s would make the news and the place will be crawling with national media because this the first appearance of Hillary and Obama together. If only handful of us show up it will be dismissed, no doubt, as those disgruntled people, but if a few hundred show up……….
    So who’s up for this? Bring a pair of flip flops.

  170. For those who wish to stay together in a long term commitment to the ideals and rinciples that Hillary Clinton has spent a lifetime promoting, http://Together4Us.com offers access for activists, funders, students, policy-makers and ordinary people to come together in support of each other and their goals for America. Please come to our website and join, use the code below to put our linked logo on your website and distribute our message and this code to all your network. Spread the word. We will be happy to put up a reciprocal link, your own co-branded web page on our site, or your own blog.

    Thanks so much,
    Gretchen Glasscock,
    Together4Us

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