[BUMPED] Gary posted this yesterday but, I think most of us missed it. – katiebird
MAWM told me yesterday that I needed to post something quick because people were starting to believe that I had hopped on board the unity pony express. I can assure you, that is not going to happen. I just started a new job, so that has required most of my attention as of late. Let me be very clear, however, that I am a PROUD new member of the PUMA party. Obama’s coup d’etat of the Democratic Party is all but complete, so we must regroup and work on taking our party back.
Make no mistake about it, the only thing the new Democratic Party has in common with the old one is the name. It’s like the creature from the movie Alien. The party was forcibly impregnated by usurpers that grew from the inside out, eventually shedding its host and killing it in the process. Obama and his cronies now control every apparatus in the party from fundraising to determining what the new party platform will be. But we must be very clear: Obama is an illegitimate candidate. He lost to Clinton in the popular vote, thumbed his nose at large swaths of the Dem base (women, Latinos, working people, etc.), and became a poster child for everything that is wrong with affirmative action. Even the “ethnic media” (whatever that is) seems to concede, as Riverdaughter has said before, that Obama is the affirmative action candidate:
Most importantly, the Jackson campaigns for president in 1984 and 1988, helped change the party’s delegate selection rules, without which Obama could not have won so many delegates.
As Paul so eloquently stated yesterday, the Democratic Party has decided that some constituencies of the party (Jews, Latinos, older women voters, etc.) should only count as half a person. At the same time, other groups were being given exaggerated influence in selecting the party’s nominee. Maybe Bill Clinton’s comparison of the Obama campaign to Jesse Jackson’s wasn’t so far off the mark. The above quote acknowledges the role his run played in securing Obama the nomination.
Obama has consistently told those of us who have been loyal democrats our whole lives one thing: “you’ll get nothing and like it”. He expects us to vote for him without even paying lip service to us. The cries of “what about Roe v Wade” and “McCain wants to stay in Iraq 100 years” are all we hear. They want to make us feel guilty about not voting for him rather than address our concerns as loyal party members. In fact, they have actively purged many of us to satisfy their new base of African Americans and liberal elite. Let’s take a look:
Women: The outrageous misogyny displayed by Obama, his campaign, his supporters, and his lackeys in the media is well documented and does not need rehashing here. Just browse through a couple of examples over at Shakesville.
Latinos: Not only has Obama largely ignored this, the largest ethnic minority in the United States, he has even refused to acknowledge their votes. Hillary Clinton vowed to give Puerto Ricans, who are American citizens, the full vote. Obama not only does not support their right to vote, he doesn’t think they should be counted in the primary election.
He came, he saw, he cashed in , and he left…Barak Obama receives heavy influence from Congressman Luis Gutierrez of Illinois, who is a very good friend of current Puerto Rico Governor Anibal Acevedo Vila. Both support the continuation of the island’s current territorial political status through a “constitutional assembly”; in which a select group of local Puerto Rican politicians would decide Puerto Rico’s political fate and not the people, If Senator Obama truly believes that Puerto Rico’s political status issue should be decided directly by the people of Puerto Rico, then why not publicly support HR 900 The Puerto Rico Democracy Act or the Senate version of this Bill co authored by Senator Hillary Clinton?
In turn, the voters of Puerto Rico resoundingly rejected Obama, supporting Hillary by as much as 3-1.
Gays: Obama has exploited the homophobia of many of his supporters (especially in the African American community) since the very beginning of his campaign. Before he had a “preacher problem” with Wright and Pfleiger, there was Donnie “I’m cured” McClurkin:
The controversy reflects the competing interests of two important constituencies of the Democratic party, with gay activists complaining that Mr. Obama is seeking the support of black evangelicals at their expense. The gospel tour, which begins Friday with other singers, is part of a broader effort by the Obama campaign to win over black evangelicals.
Obama threw us under the bus back when there was still plenty of room under there. And Donna Brazille further demonstrated the contempt she, Obama, and the New Democratic Party have for gay voters by saying that including gays in affirmative action guidelines is “an affront to the civil rights movement”.
Jews: Anytime any politician has any connections, however rationalized, to the likes of Louis Farrakhan, it should give Jewish voters pause. And make no mistake, many in the black community heard the “dog whistles” when Obama denounced and rejected Farrakhan at the Democratic debate in Ohio:
After Sen. Hillary Clinton challenged Obama, saying “denounce” wasn’t strong enough, Obama told Russert he would “reject and denounce” Farrakhan’s support. The whole exchange made me ill.
Although Obama scored points for defusing a political bomb, his answer was insulting.
Yet the stakes are too high for African Americans to lose faith.
Even Farrakhan himself realized he would have to join the rest of us under the bus, wink, wink:
“Those who have been supporting Sen. Barack Obama should not allow what was said during the Feb. 26 presidential debate to lessen their support for his campaign. This is simply mischief making intended to hurt Mr. Obama politically.”
But of course this was all a show for the Jewish voters, as many in the African America community believed:
Obama should have found a way to escape Russert’s trap without denigrating Farrakhan’s legacy.
But, like I said, we understand.
I wonder if Farrakhan would be pleased that the many Jewish voters of Florida have been diminished to half-person status.
Appalachia: Obama decided that 20 million Americans were either too racist, too stupid, or too poor to be bothered with. Rather than lower himself to campaign in states like Kentucky and West Virginia, he wrote off these hard working voters as uneducated and biased. His minions in the media slandered them by manipulating meaningless exit polls to paint them as racists. The opportunity for the Democratic party to bring these voters back into the fold has probably been lost for a generation due to Obama’s arrogance.
Barack Obama is starting to look more and more like George W. Bush circa 2000. Back then Bush was consolidating power in the Republican Party by raising massive amounts of money. He was supported by a cabal of power hungry conservative elites. He exploited the religious right to shore up his base. He also promised to end divisiveness and bring the country together. Today’s “Unity Pony” is nothing more than the reinvention of 2000’s “Compassionate Conservative”. But unlike so many republicans, the groups mentioned above are not masochists. We will not “get nothing and like it”. We will fight to find a political framework that addresses our needs and does not take our votes for granted. (Oh yeah, and one that counts ALL of the votes)
Filed under: Barack Obama, General, Politics, Presidential Election 2008 | Tagged: New Democrats, unity pony






After today, the election begins. And although I am saddened that I will not get the priviledge to vote for Hillary again, I am looking forward to the Republicans and thier STOP THE RADICAL OBAMA EXPRESS. I along with many have jumped on that train already and ready to forge full steam ahead.
The influence of Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam is one of the scariest things about a potential Obama presidency.
To those of you who are here from TM, I just dropped by there. Taylor has had no problem whatsoever turning on a dime and switching her support. After all those months of pouring our hearts out to her and thinking we had a sympathetic ear, Taylor just posted this under the headline “HUGE DAY FOR HILLARY”:
“A lot is riding on Senator Clinton’s speech today. So many people waiting to hear, expecting so much. Such an opportunity for her as she gives Barack Obama his due and pledges her support. As one door closes, Democrats walk through another, not exactly unified, but that will come for most. Hillary Clinton will be instrumental in making that happen. Her leadership will deliver a critical component required to win in November. Nothing is more important.”
Taylor was never listening to us. They will all hear now – that is a promise! I understand what Hillary MUST do, but my conscience will guide me and I know, in her heart, Hillary feels as we do.
Great post.
We all need to redirect our anger into positive action. If you really think that Obama will be horrible for this country (and I definitely do), then I encourage you to vote for John McCain and to recruit others to do so. Collective action will be more effective than individual protest.
Staying at home or writing in Hillary’s name (which has different results in different states, but would never be sufficient to make a difference) will only help Obama. Whatever policy differences I may have with McCain pales in comparison to my fear of what an Obama candidacy would hold. And at least McCain is a good and honorable man.
Gary- thanks for the post. it is so disheartening to me to see so many bloggers jumping so fast on to the Unity Express.
What happened to principles? To honor? To Respect?
I belong to a pro-Hillary Yahoo group and probably will not be going there anymore as the last few days have been cries of “it’s over” and “Unite” and all the party unity crap.
And this from some of the bloggers who were most vocal in their support of Hillary and offered some of the best, most reasoned discourse against Obama only a week ago.
I just can not condone what the DNC has done. Not now, not in November, not ever. My one little vote will be used to say No, i will not go along with vote stealing, with election rigging, with abandoning everything I thought the “party” stood for- the working class, the people!
I have to work today so will miss the speech. I hope to see it posted here when I come home tonight.
Stay tough! Stay principled!
P.U.M.A.!
I have been noting that Obama seemed much like George W. Bush for a while now. The last paragraph of this post nailed it.
Gary, one of the first things that turned me off to the big orange were the posts that started cropping up that Latinos were too racist to vote for a black candidate.
Great post. The last paragraph says it all. I have been saying for months that his campaign is the Bush campaign of 2000. Remember the Uniter??? How has that worked for the country? The sad part, I always thought the Dems were smarter, I think not!!!
I am watching CNN and Donna Brazile absolutely cracks me up. You would think she is Hillary’s biggest supporter. I swear I’m living in some sort of alternative universe !
Gary, your post reminded me of how the late, great Marshall Field & Co. handled a customer uprising several years ago (before they were purchased by Federated and turned into–ugh!–Macy’s). Loyal Field customers would routinely notice that new shoppers signing up for a Marshall Field charge card would receive 10% off their purchases for the day and a large box of the beloved Frango Mints. This was happening constantly, and long-time cardholders, who were outraged that their loyalty was being ignored, contacted management in droves.
Almost immediately, MF responded by sending cardholders a special card entitling them to 15% off every purchase in the store on a given day. Typically, this would happen twice a year. MF understood that shoppers had alternatives, and they also understood what they owed to their “base.”
The Obamacrats are aiming for the “new shopper,” hoping that they’ll turn into loyal customers who will spend as much as their existing base of cardholders. The problem is, many will sign up to get their one-day discount and their free box of mints, but they won’t be the shoppers who, generation after generation, reliably supported the store they had come to cherish.
By the way, this story has an unhappy ending: nobody I know who used to shop at MF shops at Macy’s now. The merchandise simply isn’t the same quality, and Federated clearly didn’t understand the MF shopper.
Gary,
Hope the new job is great and it’s good to hear from you.
Without the street violence of 1968, the embarrassment of 1972, the convention myopathy of 1980, the rewritten histories of 1984 and 1988, and the misplaced adherence to the rules of 2000 and 2004, the tradegy of 2008 has been written before our eyes.
While it may come as an epiphany to the big Zero campaign that torrential sentiment need not be prefaced with seismic events, but with the routine of what became everyday campaigning by their surrogates. The fault line was crossed by months of plausible deniability by the candidate while he basked in the aftershocks of surrogates who reveled in the animus of we who dared not succumb to the One.
While the words, “To the victor goes the spoils,” has clad the Zero campaign with a certain smuggness, it also comes with a price. The price tag in this instance is a no return policy — no return to the days of forgiveness for what they have wrought upon the groups who dared ply a different course. It was not a course of hatred of a candidate. It was a course of advocacy FOR a candidate, but to the Zero campaign it was a distinction without a difference.
The cataclysmic change in the democratic electorate has been foretold by the incessant desire to slay the most qualified candidate in history. It won’t be summarized by historians as any one single event, but a constant drumbeat of villification. In the words of Eliot, the change has come “not with a bang, but a whimper.” A change that will long outlast the throng of cult adulation and once again be a momentous hallmark of what could have been.
Hear the PUMAs roar.
I am getting sick and tired of the people who are trying to tell us to get in line. I am sorry that you think that having principles, is acting like 2-year olds. Blindly following the DNC and whatever they decide is best for us is like acting like 2-year olds. Think for yourself, and talk for yourself. You do not speak for me. I cannot and will not back Obama, because I believe he would make a terrible president. I do not believe he has even made a good senator. What exactly has he done in his time as senator-nothing, zilch, zero, nada. Just because he has a D beside his name on a ballot is no longer reason enough for me to vote for him. He has not earned my vote. That’s just on the experience level, because on the judgement level, he has even more problems. All you have to do is look to Wright, Ayers, Rezko, Auchi, and Plefger, and you have a disturbing pattern of poor judgement. So, please woman with a brain stem, do not tell me to get in line. Go spew your BS elsewhere.
Woman with a Brain Stem:
So have Barack do the right thing and let him heal the wounds by strongly denouncing his surrogates in the blogosphere who has been guilty of misogyny, race baiting and the like.
If he could not do that, it could mean that he has no control over his surrogates or he is letting his surrogates do the dirty tricks for him with his full knowledge and permission.
Woman with a Brain Stem,
Given that your brain stem governs your involuntary actions and reflexes, you may not understand that those of us who have higher functioning brains do have a choice. While we respect your unquestioning choice, our choice is one borne of logic and intellectual discourse.
What you so conveniently overlook is that it isn’t about us, it is about the country. Your candidate’s unadulterated ambition and self-aggrandizement does not a leader make.
Demeaning us with your vitriol makes us all the more strident in our determination to do what’s right for the country and succumbing to bullying isn’t in the cards. So go back to concentrating on your involuntary reflexes, it will keep you occupied and away from insulting those of us who think instead of react.
Given that your brain stem controls your flight or fight reflex, I strongly suggest you listen to the former instead of the later.
Woman with a Brain Stem, on June 7th, 2008 at 1:30
HAHA!! I left before I was purged…and it’s because I have ideals. No one is buying this clap trap anymore….the Do nothing 06 Dem congress , deplorable Dem treatment of Hill and the in borad daylight theft of votes has seen to that. Chow
Brain stem is lizard brain Sweetie.
Your Alien image is spot on. I believe the impregnation took place sometime in 2003 when Dean was created. Once Clark neutralized
Obama 1, the masterminds moved over immediately to the next
version – see the analysis here:
http://rezkowatch.blogspot.com/2008/05/rezkowatch-electability-2008-dean-plan.html
You know, the reason I was a proud democrat, even when we were few, like in the days of dukakis, was becaue I wholeheartedly believed that the Democratic Party valued me, valued what was important to me, fought for what was meaningful for me. Today’s democratic party has shown me a total disrespect. On the night of the NC primary Donna Brazile said it, the new coalition doesn not need my vote. My Female, Hispanic, Gay, Florida vote. So I did what anyone does when they no longer feel welcomed. I left.
It goes beyond this primary election and coming general election.
[...] June, 2008 · No Comments Suppose you think that Clinton voters have been disenfranchised, and that this election has been handed to the people who disenfranchised them. You think [...]
This article gives me much comfort in these dark days. Thank you for not jumping on the unity pony.
GREAT ARTICLE…
An Obama supporter not telling *anybody* what to do or to get in line. I know that people are angry about what happened in the campaign and that they may never support him.
I’ll just say this. I believe that Obama does care about the votes of women and latinos, and that he intends to work for a more equal world for his daughters and wife – for us all. Just offering my view of him and hoping that you’ll keep watching as the campaign unfolds. Please check in and decide whether you think he’s growing or maybe shares enough of your values and views to be worth your support.
Thank you for listening.
TL:
Too little, too little and totally insincere.
NO OBAMA EVER!
Save America!
Don’t vote Obama!
The view of him is what we’ve already seen and ‘it ain’t good’.
TL, keep watching as he is shown to be the FRAUD that he is.
Keep watching as his ties to Farrakhan, Ayers, and Rezko are fully described in he media now that Clinton is out.
Keep watching as his ignorance and arrogance is put on full display for the American public.
Keep watching as he tries to play the race card on the general public.
Keep watching. It will be a train wreck.
We warned you.
Wow, I did miss this post!
This is a great example of how the Precious has thrown the entire Base out the window.
Mawm, the more the 0bambis cry wolf, the more immune people are going to get.
Lipstick on a Pig, dammit!
Awww…..you guys deleted woman with a brainstem before I could enjoy her posts too. Did anyone find out if all she has is a brain stem. Because if so, I’m pretty impressed that she could manage to post on the Internet at all. When you’ve only got a brain stem that is a remarkable achievement.
I await the postings of her friend — woman with a handful of neurons.
SM: Turtle on a pole (search for turtle in the previous thread).
Bambi didn’t give anything to HIS OWN supporters either. Why would he give us anything?
TL: We watched all primary as he misogynistically trashed to pieces the possible first female presidential nominee.
He’ll play lip service to women’s rights, but we’ve already seen the reality.
Dream on, TL. We’ll wait and see. I don’t think Obama cares about anyone but himself. He is a classic narcissist. I hope you won’t be too dissillusioned when your dreams are dashed. Or maybe you are the kind of person who can successfully deceive him/herself. I haven’t been able to blind myself to reality for a very long time–especially when it comes to politics.
I’m reposting my comment from the previous thread. I put it up there after everyone already moved up here.
————————————————————
I think some people are misunderstanding Riverdaughter. This blog is not going to endorse Barack Obama. But as long as he is the presumptuous nominee, we should see what he has to offer us.
That is exactly what Hillary did yesterday. She spelled out exactly what Barack has to do to get her supporters to vote for him. Reread her speech with the list of demands. Hillary knows that we aren’t going to vote for him unless he commits to fighting for our issues–universal health care, no messing with social security and medicare, a government that works for the middle class, working people, and the poor. Traditional Democratic values, not libertarian, creative class values.
The odds are strongly against Obama being able to do this. For one thing, he would have to convince his rabid supporters to really welcome us back into the party and to accept traditional Democratic values. They will never do this. They have come together to support him in order to destroy those traditional Democratic values. But let him try. If we simply reject him out of hand we are surrendering just as much as people like Taylor and Jerelyn who are just turning on a dime and not demanding anything.
The PUMA and all of us need a new bright Tee with these words:
“I’m one of Hillary’s 18 million!”
TL, how can Obama “work for a more equal world ” after the campaign he just ran. Isn’t that a bit hypocritical? To me, it says “I will play this game to get ahead and when I win I will change”. What message does that send.
I remember the moment very clearly when I thought, “WTF?”. It was the “you are likeable enough, Hillary” line. (And it was when SHE had to answer a question about how every likes him more than her!) Downhill from there–and of his own making, I might add.
McCain/Ferraro 08
Senator Obama co-sponsored and helped reauthorize the Violence Against Women Act. Signed into law in January 2006, the bill funds and helps communities, nonprofit organizations, and police combat domestic violence, sexual assault, and stalking.
Barack Obama is an original co-sponsor of Johanna’s Law. Signed into law in January 2007, the law will educate women and increase awareness of ovarian cancer. Also, he helped pass legislation in the Illinois State Senate to expand insurance coverage for mammograms.
Katrina: Yeah, but he couldn’t reel in his supporters like KO against the woman candidate.
He might pay lip service to supporting women, but in his heart of hearts, he’s a jacka*s to women.
“My (Unpleasant) Encounter with an Honest-to-God Radical 60’s Professor Whom I Finally Got to SHUT UP…”
http://tinyurl.com/4q5yxw
You know the type…the ones who want to “destroy America” like Rev. Wright…The guys who really understood the 60’s better than anyone (at least according to this guy…”
A story of triumph!!!
I did catch this yesterday, and thought it was a great post. Thanks Gary. I have been opposed to Obama since he decided to lecture the left on wearing your religion on your sleeve (and was delighted to see how that strategy bit him on the ass this season). This was well before the primary season was underway, possibly before he declared (I can’t recall exactly, there’s a post on Dkos somewhere, but I won’t give them the traffic from finding it).
Anyway, it was the McClurkin thing that utterly cemented my resentment toward him. Before that I thought he was just inexperienced and misguided as a result, but with that incident, I saw he was actually calculatingly this bullshit. That was it for me. I declared then I would not vote for him. I’m not gay, but a lot of my friends are, and I have gay members in my family, and gay rights has always been a huge issue for me. I will not support someone who provokes and benefits from bigotry against them.
Anyway, my daily whoring is for my new blog, which I announced on this site two days ago as part of my effort to help this growing movement get some wings. I’ve settled on the title “Peacocks and lilies” after a john Ruskin quote. I’ve got a new post up about he blogger boyz, which acknowledges many of the wonderful sites run by women, including the Confluence. Visit me if you have a chance, and leave a comment to let me know if you like what you see. Thanks!
http://annabellep.wordpress.com/
Sweetie Software Alert!!!
Ring the alarm!!
Spewing out Obama “he supports women’s rights” talking points!
Katina, – he’s a hypocrite. He also voted “present” on pro-choice legislation. He violated MY rights as woman by running the most sexist, demoralizing and divisise campaign in the history of our party.
Obama cannot win us back. Go Away. We. will. not. vote. for. the. Precious.
If you wish to understand how they really view us as viable voters in November, listen to how they keep bashing Hillary regarding her non concession speech on Tuesday night. They are affronted! They claim that the Democratic leadership and the supers were stunned when she did not concede outright and allow him to “claim victory”. Absolutely no sensitivity at all to this woman.
As long as they continue down this amazing path I sure as hell will not be listening to any attempts to be brought back into the fold. They barely touch upon the real anger permeating and percolating out here over the treatment she has had to endure. What I do in November is not contingent upon any attempts at reconciliation since it is established that I am just another “sorry loser”. They can continue to feed off this “unity” crap until it comes out of their ears.
Sorry about the broken link….repost:
“My (Unpleasant) Encounter with an Honest-to-God Radical 60’s Professor Whom I Finally Got to SHUT UP…”
http://tinyurl.com/4lz39d
You know the type…the ones who want to “destroy America” like Rev. Wright…The guys who really understood the 60’s better than anyone (at least according to this guy…”
A story of triumph!!!
I’m listening to the replay of Meet the Press on CSPAN radio and.. gaaaahh.. the brilliant panel suggests team Obama should send Bill to rural towns and to Appalachia to help overcome the cultural/racial issues that stop people from voting for Obama? arrrrrggghh. that. is. not. the. issue.
Russet then tells an anecdote of an African American security guard at one of the debates who asks him to tell Bill thanks for making them 90-10 against him.. in a way that makes it clear Russert was kind of scared of the guy. Good lord.
Actually, it doesn’t matter to me if Obama claims to share my views and values, at this point. Does not matter. I don’t believe him, but above that, the poisonous, divisive, destructive campaign he ran and the influence of his followers is tearing apart the party and I can’t support letting them take it over for good. NObama.
I just reconstructed Barry’s resume from the info in Wikipedia. “Thin” is an understatement. Wish I could e-mail it to you but didn’t know how.
For you old movie buffs, doesn’t Barry remind you of George Kittredge, the “Man of the People” from The Philadelphis Story?
Teresa,
I’d have to see more details about Obama’s “co-sponsorship” of any bill. Being a co-sponsor is easy. You just have to sign your name, not do any work. And after hearing that story about how Obama tried to take credit for a bill after the fact (I’ll see if I can find the story) and got a lot of Senators PO’d at him, including Kennedy, I’m skeptical.
I’m with you, darla.
Great link GRL, and thanks for it. That post added another link in the chain for me. I did not know there were so-called liberals who believed that the country must be destroyed if it is to be saved. Another correlation between these neoliberals and neocons.
@ Maria Garcia, I remember one post at cheetoland from this guy who had attended a caucus, and he said that he felt that the only reason Latinos were supporting hillary was because “Hillary’ was the only English word they knew!!!! My jaw dropped right down to the floor.
annabellep,
I love the picture and quote on your blog. I bookmarked it.
Nice tribute to Hillary while at the same time saying no to Obama http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9afuODNDYoQ
Thanks BB! Not sure if you are aware, but you and I “knew” each other over at dKos. I am “belly” and am responsible for the (short) series on Women’s History Month there. I had to leave before I was able to complete the series, but I will be posting the series next year at the new blog. Thanks for the feedback! I hope you’ll check back. I’m working on a new entry titled The Specter of Roe v Wade, should be up some time tomorrow.
Did anyone read this from rolling stone mag ? – found it thurs night I think ..
The Senate Caves
“Democrats regained control of Congress by promising to stand up to Bush. So why does the Senate leadership keep rolling over without a fight?”
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/20961789/the_senate_caves/1
annabellep – I bookmarked you too.
I have been an infrequent poster at No Quarter and at Taylor Marsh’s blog. I am an unabashed supporter of the Clintons, going way back to Salon’s Table Talk. I supported Howard Dean because of his anti war position, and looked on in horror at the sliming of Hillary Clinton, and the dumb choice of the DNC and the rest to throw the nomination to Barack Obama.
I would urge people to vote for John McCain, but for the foreign policy people with which he has surrounded himself. They are unabashed neocons, warmongers of the highest order…Norman Podhoretz and now, recently, William Kristol’s son. This tells me that should McCain be elected, there will be a march to war in the Middle East.
Someone yesterday posted that a Republican friend confided that secretly, McCain was a Democrat. Maybe in domestic policy. But with the Podhoretz’s and the Kristols around him, I don’t think so.
Also, it has been my contention all along, and I have written this at No Quarter and Marsh, that the media has pushed Obama because Hillary was the stronger candidate against McCain. So now they are going to get their wish.
This is the first time I have posted misgivings about being totally all out for McCain. Perhaps with a strong Democratic Congress, McCain’s neocons can be neutralized. Perhaps…
I think that Democrats who plan to vote for McCain should at least question him and his Republican friends about the warmongering neocons around him, just like they are questioning Obama’s wackos.
Hello all:
Don’t forget to send out those thank you cards to Hill. I’m going to add a little urging in mine that she should take the lead in fighting to enact major change to the Democratic Party’s primary processes, so that hopefully in the future we never end up in a situation where we have a candidate winning the popular vote and another winning the delegates by the super delegates putting him over the top. This is clearly not “fair reflection” as laid out in the Democratic Party’s own Charter & Bylaws, Article 2, section 4(b). By the way, tis an interesting read, just to pick out the sectoins where the Rules & Bylaws Committee broke their own roolz!
So get those cards in the mail!
‘We are trying to get a “Thank you card campaign” started. We want to flood Senator Clinton’s DC office with thank you cards. On the front of the envelope we are writing “WE ARE ONE OF 18 MILLION” and we are asking her to take it to Denver. We want to reach as many supporters as possible so it can be effective.’
THE ADDRESS:
THE HONORABLE HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON
UNITED STATES SENATE
476 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510-3202
annabellep,
You’re Belly? Thank you so much for telling me. I loved your stuff at DK! You are one of the people who helped give me the courage to announce my support for Hillary and eventually leave that Godforsaken place. I will definitely be checking up on what you are writing. Your women’s history series was terrific and I look forward to seeing it again.
RE Katrina’s attempt to shower Obama with praise:
Senate version of VAWA was sponsored by Joe Biden, with 58 co-sponsors, including Sen. Hillary Clinton.
Johanna’s Law was sponsored in the Senate by Arlen Specter. Approximately 35 co-sponsors, including Sen. Hillary Clinton.
Obama trolls desperately searching for “good works” by Obama ought to do their homework.
grayslady,
Thank for doing the research. That is exactly what I expected. Obama is known for glomming onto the work others and trying to take credit. Look at how he shamelessly stole Clinton’s and Edwards’ ideas during the primaries. Not to mention his stealing Deval Patrick’s entire campaign, speeches and all.
have been an infrequent poster at No Quarter and at Taylor Marsh’s blog. I am an unabashed supporter of the Clintons, going way back to Salon’s Table Talk.
Care to share a username and/or give me a hint? I left Salon a few months back, after over 7 years as a lurker then poster. Same username.
I’ve been finding former TTers all over recently, chased away by the absolute cognitive dissonance that the Obama party has created… you know, the “Of course I’m a feminist, sweetie!” kinda thing!
BB,
Yep, the one and only.
And wow, thank you so much for your comment! I often felt quite invisible at dKos, so it’s so nice to know I had an impact in some way. It’s been a pleasure reading your work and seeing you participate here.
bb: You’re welcome. Hardly compares to Hillary and Patty Murray fighting tooth-and-nail for Plan B, but, hey, if being one of several dozen co-sponsors is all you’ve got, well then….
Thanks for the reality check, gray lady. Another example of Obama’s “me too” moments.
Or as it has been called “what she said” moments.
GO PUMA
Katrina, sweetie — S.1197, the Senate bill to reauthorize VAWA had 58 co-sponsors, and Obama was one of ‘em (# 39 in date order; HRC was #17) … but S.1197 was never enacted into law.
The Senate later concurred (by Unanimous Consent) in the House VAWA reauthorization measure, H.R.3402.
Perhaps you think we’re all women here. Perhaps you think we’re low-information voters. Perhaps you are mistaken about a lot of things.
I’m a former TTer too. First the “Florida” threads in November/December 2000. And then the Big Brother (TV Show threads) and lots of others over the years. It was incredible fun during those years when it was free. But I stuck with it until Obama Mania struck this year. I was CathyH at table talk. But it’s been years since I actually posted anything.
NWHiker,
I think used my real name over there. But I can’t be sure. It’s been over eight years, but I had a lot of fun. I left after in the late nineties, early 2000s. I used to post long, some thought funny, diatribes, taunting the Clinton haters.
My particular foil was a guy called Richard Stout, who also had a hate on for FDR.
P.S. GRRROWRRRR!
Annabelle,
I have been opposed to Obama since he decided to lecture the left on wearing your religion on your sleeve (and was delighted to see how that strategy bit him on the ass this season).
That was the first (in a long string) of moments at which I saw Obama as bad news for Democrats who believe in our secular government, and I said so, vehemently, on what was probably the same GOS thread you mentioned.
Bostonboomer,
Traditional Democratic values, not libertarian, creative class values.
Exactly!
Maria Garcia,
Gary, one of the first things that turned me off to the big orange were the posts that started cropping up that Latinos were too racist to vote for a black candidate.
One in particular that followed that formula was what eventually landed me (where I really prefer to be) on the outside of the “O” cult. Something to the effect of “there aren’t enough Latino voters in the remaining primaries for Hillary to win struck me as quintessentially racist, and I told the author so, in no uncertain terms.
I’m not Hispanic, but my early childhood in Texas gives me nothing but respect for Hispanic people. My grandfather owned a furniture shop in Houston and had a Hispanic man who worked for him. No one I’ve ever met worked harder than that man. His sons, who also came to work for my grandfather were no different.
Both sons went on the serve in Vietnam. One was killed, and the other came home paralyzed from the neck down. The man who worked for my grandfather, although the experience of loss had to have broken his heart, had nothing less than the greatest of reverence for America and its ideals. My respect for him was unbounded and remains so to this day.
Change We Can Believe In: Community Blogs: How the Jewish Lobby Works
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/juancarloscruz/gG5BSr
Obama needs to spend some of his big bucks scrubbing his Web site! More people need to be “disappeared.”
Petition not to vote for Obama
http://clintondems.com/no-vote-petition/
Can anyone get a screen shot of this page
Can anyone get a screen shot of this before it gets scrubbed:
HOW CAN WE STOP THE JEWISH LOBBY?
Here are 3 options:
1) Commit suicide.
2) Write to your Senator warning him that taking bribes from Jews is a sin.
3) Never vote again.
OR:
+ Pray To The Lord Jesus Christ To Either Convert The Jews Or Conquer Them Through The Power Of His Cross!
For More See: “American Jewry’s World Wide Web” Click Here
And: “How The Jews Took Washington” Click Here
And: “McCain Bows To Jewish Money” Click Here
And: “Jews Run The US State Department” Click Here
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/juancarloscruz/gG5BSr
Ah. I didn’t show up until The Great Recount, iirc.
BTW. Richard Stout is still there, still spouting the same… umm… stuff. Yeah. Stuff.
CB, marie3548 — That’s an unfortunate eruption by an Obama backer (or deliberate disrupter), but let’s not pretend it represents Obama or the campaign.
It’s just one of those risks of running a diary system.
Thrasyboulos – Memory’s foggy. Did you also do a turn at The Fray?
Looks like more of the Republicans courting our vote.
Christie Todd Whitman:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/opinion/08whitman-1.html?pagewanted=print
Marie3548 – if you have a PC, you can do yourself:
1) Open up Microsoft Paint
2) Open up the link
3) When the link is open, press Alt + Print Screen.
4) Go to Microsoft Paint, and press “Paste” or Ctrl + V.
5) Save the image in Microsoft Paint.
It will only capture what is on screen, so if you if you are missing text., scroll down and repeat the process.
Let’s take back The White House for the Democrats and make America a better place.
As soon as there’s a Democrat running!
Heh.
Red Dragon – there was a lot of genuine stuff in her speech – but not exactly what you heard. Not after SDs told her that winning thw White House this year is not something anyone cares about.
As for the Alien image Gary so cleverly evoked, I kept looking for a photo – and I eventually found this reenactment with pumpkins:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/Robbedvoter/SunMoon/hobased_1972_52237976.gif
RedDragon62, those of us who post here are not part of a “cult of Hillary.” Our support for Hillary comes from admiration for her competence and respect for her character, but not from blind obedience. By the way, most of us here are Independents now, not Democrats, so you’re preaching to the wrong choir.
FINALLY, a column in the Dallas Morning News that starts by saying, “Barack Obama won ugly. It goes on to tell what he lost – key states by landslide margins, a struggle to connect with blue-collar and hispanics . . .
Where in the H were these reporters the last twelve months? NOW they come out.
Jmac: A link?
TERESA – Sorry – couldn’t find the article to link. It’s in today’s DMN entitled Texas Watch – Obama must make himself known to Hispanic voters – and written by Todd J. Gillman
ronkseattle,
No, I don’t know what the Fray is/was. I remember (mildly) jousting with you over at Kos, re Dean. My anti war feelings got the best of me. He’s really botched this primary, him and the Clinton haters.
Another way the unity party works: John Kerry has a Dem primary challenger for the first time in 23 years! I’m totally contributing–thank you tax rebate. MWAH!
http://annabellep.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/and-so-it-begins/
Unity pony, I mean, sheesh…
ronkseattle,
could you email me privately at gabriele dot droz at gmail dot com? I’ve got a question.
Tangential to Topic–
Since someone else brought up the speech…
“When you stumble, keep faith. When you’re knocked down, get right back up. And never listen to anyone who says you can’t or shouldn’t go on. ”
My immediate reaction was that she was doing exactly that–listening to those who said she shouldn’t go on. After a day’s reflection, I now wonder is she was sending a message to her supporters: I’m still going on with this thing, just not like before. I might be wishing for too much here. I think the real answer will come if she starts to insult her supporters. I think there was a hint of that during the interview with the big Indiana newspaper with the “It would be the height of political foolishness…” comment regarding supporting McCain over Obama. If she really recognizes that MANY of hers supporters absolutely will NOT vote for Obama, I hope she simply says that she respectfully disagrees. We shall see…
Annabellep,
I stayed out of the primary diaries at DK until pretty late–November/December ‘07, maybe? I think I first started to read them after the McClurking episode. Until then, I had thought Obama was a possibility, but after that I didn’t seriously consider him. I was so angry that I starting arguing with the Obamatrons, and that was when I found out how horrible and out of control they were. I was called lazy and stupid and lots of other things, just for asking serious questions about Obama and what he believed in.
I finally decided to support Edwards, but that wasn’t too long before he dropped out. I had seen the way Hillary supporters were being treated, and between watching Hillary in the debates and reading what the Hillary supporters were saying at DK, I finally gave her some attention. She blew me away, and I was ashamed that I had somehow bought into the media narrative about her. When I actually just listened to Hillary, it was obvious that she was the most qualified candidate and the most interested in actually helping regular people.
Now I’m glad that Edwards dropped out before super Tues., because I’m proud that I voted for Hillary.
[sends us more of the usual talking points -- RonK]
I swear I saw Red Dragon’s comment yesterday under another name.
I took screenshots of the Obama community page. The Mac has a Grab utility (in the Applications/Utilities folder).
Can anyone get the Clinton Dem web site to work? I want to sign the petition but it says that I entered too many characters in my comment, which I didn’t the second time.
ea,
I think there were a lot of subtle messages in Hillary’s speech–not only for her supporters, but for Obama and the DNC. I have little doubt that she is going to maintain her power to influence the party going forward and that she is well aware that Obama could still falter. August is a long way off.
RD, I really hope you take on Miss Laura’s latest.
Lee Anne,
I agree with you about McCain and so does Riverdaughter. Where I differ with you, I guess, is that I can’t in good conscience vote for Obama. The misogyny is the least of my objections to him.
My primary concern about Obama is his stands on domestic issues. I believe he plans to privatize social security, with the support of other Congressional Democrats. If I voted for someone who did that, I could never live with myself.
I believe he will cut many social programs, attempt to privatize them, or turn them over to faith-based entities. He supports George Bush’s faith-based initiatives. I can’t go along with that. I read Obama’s book cover to cover, and he clearly states in the book that he admires Reagan’s as well as Clinton’s cuts in social programs and that he favors privatization and other Republican-types “solutions” for social programs.
If a Democratic President proposes these changes in domestic programs, I do not believe that the Democrats we have in Congress now will fight them or defeat them. On the other hand, if McCain pushes for them, they may be forced by the voters to stand up for Democratic principles.
I won’t decide what I’ll do on election day until I get to that point. A lot can happen between now and November. Frankly I still have hope that Obama may self-destruct. If that happens, and Hillary is not the back up, there will be hell to pay. In fact, I think there will be hell to pay if Obama doesn’t make Clinton VP. I don’t want her to do it, but many Democrats do and will be enraged if she isn’t on the ticket.
This fight isn’t over by a long shot. There will be many battles to come. If you listen carefully to Hillary’s speech, you will find that she did not surrender. It was a clarion call and a warning to the party and to the “presumptive” nominee.
COMMUNITY ADVISORY — As previously noted at other pro-Hillary sites, false-flag posters have been posting comments under the names of established community members( here, Dawnelle and Uppity Woman), and then sockpuppeting – responding to their own posts under other names.
RedDragon62 is one of these deliberate disruptors.
RedDragon62 has been added to the spam filter. Further action has been initiated with RedDragon62’s ISP regarding violation of their Terms of Use.
Please be alert to similar occurrences, especially where familiar members of this community undergo spontaneous conversions.
Besr to you too, LeeAnne.
Is this true? It was a comment on the No Vote petition site. I thought the DNC predicted a 13% drop-off but that Obama would register new voters so the “base” can stay home as Donna Brazile told it to do on TV:
http://clintondems.com/no-vote-petition/
I telephoned the DNC and was patched into Howard Dean’s office.
Here is the phone number 1-202-863-8000
They are really scared. The lady said they were being unindated with calls from Hillary’s supporters. I told her they should be because of the selected candidate and that there were a lot of blogs out there giving them your number to call and voice their opposition to Obama being the nominee.
I told her people were upset and angry because of the way the media and the DNC had treated her. She said, the DNC didn’t do anything, it was the Media. I told her just like the DNC — blame everybody else except who is to blame.
I would advise everybody to call because they are really concerned.
CB, It should be true, but who knows. That person signs with a different name than their user name, which seems weird to me. But, not exactly evidence.
CB: I think the woman was partly right. The DNC DIDN’T do anything about the disgusting coverage.
Howard Dean came out, what, yesterday? to say that the media acted like middle schoolers.
He apparently thought that was fine until he got his chosen candidate. He didn’t realize that people were REALLY angry. We sweeties would just come around.
I will not come around. I want a Democrat in 2012. I won’t vote for a scumbag, nor for a scumbag party.
Lee Ann, is McAuliffe coming right out and saying they have a 16 year plan? I mean..even if obama could win, which i doubt even with hillary as his VP, and even if he’d offer it to her, which I doubt, because he’s such a classless ass, she’d be 68 in 8 years. 8 years of the Obamabots running this party, the scorched earth tactics, the divisiveness, and the vitriol thrown at a 68 year old woman would make what we’ve seen look tame, imo. I know how strong and graceful she is and what a fighter….but that doesn’t sound all that feasible.
Hillary or Bust: The notion of voting for McCain is not about voting for McCain because we think he’s a great candidate.
Voting for McCain is about making sure that the scum in the DNC aren’t rewarded with a win. A win means that women continue to lose rights, whereas a loss means their horrendous activities failed them.
Someone used the analogy of chemotherapy to describe this. You have to kill some cells for the good of the body — in the long term. The chemo itself is POISON, but the end result is a cure. And that’s the rationale for those of us voting for McCain.
The bottom line is, if you endorse the way the DNC and Obama ran the campaign against Hillary, then vote Obama.
If you despised it and you never want to see it again, vote McCain.
I personally never want to see that again.
Hillary or Burst: ” I think nothing could be more dishonorable.”
Are you a klingon?
I think it’s plain stupid to even entertain the thought that Hillary as:
a woman
a Clinton
and 68 years old
would ever be able to win the presidency in 2016. If they wanted the 16 year plan they should have (s)elected Hillary first.
As it stands, the plan is a pathetic JOKE.
Obama was young enough to wait — and train for the job.
Is anybody with Yahoo having problems today? I am unable to access e-mail and have tried to reboot more than once.
I’ve been following developments on this blog with a lot of interest, and I am not the only Obama supporter who has. There seem to be a variety of opinions here, but what unites you is a dislike for Obama and a feeling that HRC was cheated. That’s fine with me–it was a rough primary season and a lot of feelings got hurt, and people can vote for whomever they please–no one owes a political party anything.
But what I am also noticing here is a lot of people urging a vote for McCain. I just want to point out that McCain supporters and Republicans in general will be trolling here, trying to fan the flames of discontent for their own purposes. They have no respect for Hillary’s policy positions, they just want to use your outrage to help their candidate, whose own policy positions are about as far from Hillary’s (and Obama’s) as they can be. SO I am just hoping that folks here take the McCain kool-aid with grains of salt.
Best to all–Michael57
[FAKE ALERT -- RonK]
For those voting for McCain because he’s a “maverick”, let’s not fool ourselves here. Being a McCainBot isn’t any better than being an ObamaBot.
McCain isn’t a maverick. He flip-flopped on the war, he flip-flopped on Bush’s tax cuts for the rich, he flip-flopped on warrantless wiretaps, and he voted with Bush 95% of the time in the Senate last year.
Bush and McCain are very, very close on the issues. And McCain stands very far apart on the issues from Hillary.
If you’re a true Hillary supporter, I don’t understand how you could vote for McCain. He doesn’t support her stance on Iraq, the economy, universal health care, education reform, and a lot more.
UpstateNY,
LOL! I think it’s hilarious when people promote a vote for Obama because he will somehow support Hillary’s issues. Anyone who believes that needs to read his book, look at his list of contributors and advisors, and then think again. Obama is no liberal. In fact he doesn’t believe in ideology at all. From what I can tell, he has no basic values–just what ever “works,” which means what will get him what he wants.
BTW, thanks for sending your weather northward. Today I’m sitting in front of three fans drinking iced tea, and moving as little as possible.
Oy,
Enough with the “true Hillary supporter” cr*p, real or false flag posters.
BB: thank you? I thought you were going to curse me for it. Hot ain’t it?
UpstateNY, I’m rolling on the floor laughing:
I am getting exceedingly tired with the newest troll strategy of suggesting that individuals who feel safer with McCain at the helm are secret Republicans trying to stir up trouble.
Nobody needs to fan the flames here–the Republicans have my vote this year.
Unless the DNC leadership (there’s an oxymoron) wakes up and gives Hillary the respect and position that she earned, then it’s McCain all the way.
When the play offs are rigged…do I really want to get behind the cheating team in the World Series just because I’ve been a lifelong fan?
For me, the answer is hell no.
Charles,
The Dean faction stayed together after Kerry’s 527 and the obliging media shot him out of the water. (Dean would have had a better shot against the media’s chosen one–George W. Bush, although Kerry was great in the debates.)
The Dean faction is now controlling the Democratic Party. DFA stayed together and used e-mail groups and meetups to organize. Then they just showed up. It is easy to get a foot in the door and move up within the party structure if one devotes the time. Most people just spout words. Others donate or volunteer, or do both. The smart ones obtain inside power, step-by-step.
There needs to be a centrist Democratic Party faction to balance the faction that is now in control.
Michael57, BO and his supporters have no respect for Hillary and her supporters . You and your friends should understand this once and for all. We will not vote for Obama. We will vote for McCain. You are really wasting your time with your silly arguments.
Michael,
Until you stop talking about “hurt feelings” and saying that the cheating is just something we have a “feeling” about you are not going to get an audience here. We are not silly emotional women–plenty of us are men–and we aren’t “hurt.”
We are angry. We are outraged at the way the outcome of the primaries was predetermined by the DNC and leading Democrats. We aren’t going to get over it, and we won’t respond to threats about what will happen if McCain is elected. We don’t just “dislike” Obama, we don’t trust him because he hasn’t stated clearly what he would do as President, he has no relevant experience, and he is a corrupt politician, who ran the dirtiest campaign I’ve ever seen–and I’ve been watching since 1960.
Stop minimizing our concerns and get your candidate to tell us what issues he would fight to the death for. Get him to support universal health care and other issues that Hillary fought for. Just do it, or stop wasting our time. I’ve read your condescending comments before. They aren’t convincing.
You think the Obamabots are a little nervous???
Maybe they should do some research on what the Democratic Party USED to stand for…
kbird: I just do not get people who are trying to convince others who to vote for (McCain/Obama/other).
Enough with the proselytizing and “moralizing”.
Vote your conscience, I say.
I’m hot as hell, UpstateNY, and these patronizing arguments about what we should do with our precious votes is getting on my last nerve. I’m going to delete the next one, if Katiebird doesn’t beat me to it.
Hi Marisa,
Last night I said I couldnt vote for McCain and you jumped on me and said I must be an Obama supporter – tongue in cheek I asked you if you were a member of the GOP. Maybe if you stop the accusations against people you dont know you may not get them in return. It is just a thought -
“But I am not naive enough to beleive that if misogyny could bring her down in a DEM primary it could do the same in the general. It cannot be the excuse for losing 11 in a row. It’s just not, though I share the emotional sisterhood to those that beleive it is.”
I’m sorry, but I have to disagree with this. As hard as the misogyny was pushed, it did not “bring her down in the primary.” The voters, to their credit, showed amazing resiliancy in rejecting the nonsense and voting for her anyway. What “brought her down” was the machinations of the Democratic Party and its determination to refuse to allow its own system to play out, and while yes that was mostly based in misogyny, it’s not like they could have maneuvered against their own candidate in the general.
“We were relying on SDs to go against the pledged delegate winner. Or the “do not count” FL or MI primaries for G-ds sakes”
But again, it’s a media driven narrative. The “pledged delegate leader” has never weighed on anyone’s mind before, it’s crossing the threshold of delegates that matters. If a candidate can’t do that, all bets are off, and in any other case the fact that the “leader” is losing the popular vote would be used to point up how flawed the delegate allotment system is instead of used as some kind of holy grail. And the lead amounted to what, 2%? Closest race ever in terms of deleagtes, but no so much in terms of CA vs Idaho, PA vs. Alaska? I really don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect our damn SDs to not slavishly follow media narratives that are completely illogical. Same for MI and FL. Nobody ever ever said “do not count.” All Democrats suporting all candidates used to talk about is how insane and appalling disenfrachising those states was–right up until the time the Obama campaign and the media started turning raelity on its head. Nobody could ever have predicted that it would be a point of pride for Democrats to follow the crazy lead of a media narrative that doesn’t bode well for us. I don’t think it’s too much to ask, again, that our SDs resist a scenario that sees us acting like a more shameless version of the 2000 GOP. If they’re not there to stand up for basic principles of the party and basic principles of common sense, what are they there for? We might as well put Tim Russert in charge of the party.
Laney,
We were warning the Obama crazies way back in ‘07 not to go off the deep end and drive people out of the party. But they went right ahead and did it with the approval of their candidate. Now they want to get us back in line. Too bad. They should have paid attention to the many warnings from Edwards and Clinton supporters instead of driving us out of the blogs we had supported for years. There isn’t going to be any party unity this year. What’s done is done.
BB: as far as I am concerned, prophylaxis can be a good thing.
Thank you bb and kbird!
Dear Micheal57 -
Speaking only for myself – I vote on issues and track records, not on personality. I will not vote for Obama because is unqualified to be CIC.
I no longer suppor the Democratic Party. The DNC should not be rewarded for the way they fixed the process.
I do not need to be warned about McCain supporters “fanning the flames.” My choices are based on cold hard logic. I am not any kind of “bot.”
Enjoy the spam filter, Michael. Anybody else want to step forward to insult us?
boston boomer -
I agree, being told what to do is so annoying.
I am going to do my work and then when I want to take a break, put my feet up and see what is happening out there in electionville. It will be interesting to watch the media types race around and try to blow things up.
Stop it with the Hillary stuff, Michael. For me, it’s simple. Hillary has put out the signals. She wants VP. Lot’s here are not for it. I would sleep soundly at night with it. So, Michael, why don’t you go promote that with the Obama supporters. Indeed, tell people like Miss Laura to stop demeaning our support for candidate.
AMEN! The DNC has a case of “Obama Amnesia” – they can’t remember what they stand for anymore.
Amen, Little Sister! Tell it!
Little sister – the only thing I would say in disagreement is you dont know how many people who would have listened to her didnt get a chnce because of whatever show they were watching (not everybody has the time to follow things closely) or felt that it was hopeless and then didnt make the effort to vote.
Media narratives are powerful even if the boys on the tube have flab between theiri ears.
BB,
I am new to the blog world, I know what took me soooo long..
But, I am right behind you 100%…
ea – I heard that Rangel told her it was time to stop and he is one of her biggest supporters. I think she gave in to an overwhleming force against her and that she had little choice.
I used to think that a classism, misogyny, disenfranchisment, incompetence and so on made one a Republican. Instead they make you the best Democrat ever. Anything done by a Democrat is by definition Democratic–so let’s all get together and be good dems, we’ll privatize Social Security, ridicule the concept of universal health care, and see if dick wants to come by and do some post-partisan work on the energy bill, just for starters.
Oh, no. The Obamabots are not at all nervous. They don’t need are votes to win. They have registered so many new voters. Plus they expect to have lots of Republican crossover voters.
No worries for them.
Oh, no. The Obamabots are not at all nervous. They don’t need are votes to win. They have registered so many new voters. Plus they expect to have lots of Republican crossover voters.
No worries for them. It’s in the bag.
I like Charlie Rangel, but he was wrong. The person who gets the most votes and has the momentum at the end should get the nomination. Instead they nominated a sure loser. Rangel was reportedly under tremendous pressure from other black politicians and from Obama supporters. All of Hillary’s black supporters among the superdelegates were treated with unconscionable disrespect by the Obama campaign and his supporters.
Just look at what happened to John Lewis, a hero of the Civil Rights Movement. He was threatened by having another black man put up to oppose him in the primary and was harrassed and threated with violence. Once he finally broke down and endorsed Obama, the primary opponent stepped down and Lewis moved to an undisclosed location. He was quoted as saying that what he went through was much worse than anything he endured at Selma.
That is what Obama is all about.
[FAKE ALERT -- "Ann" is apparently the same Oregon Obot (or a close confederate) as the fake "ProudMilitaryMom", "Dawnelle", Uppity Woman" and others --RonK]
She endorsed the candidate that best reflected her values. That’s why she endorsed Obama over McCain.
Think about it. McCain stands against Hillary on cornerstone issues like universal health care, the war in Iraq, economic policies and education reform.
How could she possibly endorse McCain, a man who even stands against a woman’s right to choose?
Hillary has some integrity, and its time we as her supporters kept our integrity too. Voting for McCain is flushing 40 years of Hillary’s hard work down the drain.
Sorry for the double post.
I don’t kid myself that McCain doesn’t stand for our issues. Not in the least.
But Obama and his team taking over the Democratic Party would move my party away from the issues I care about – universal health care in particular – and leave behind lower middle class and working class people, write off entire regions of the country (he didn’t even bother to campaign in much of Appalachia), and set the precedent that it’s OK within the Democratic primaries to run your campaign based on character assassination, trashing the legacy of the only 2-term Democratic president in my lifetime, accusing by candidate (and consequently, all of us who support her) of a “disturbing pattern” of race baiting tactics, and invent the results of a primary election based on not The Roolz, but on exit polls and compromises behind closed doors that award delegates to a candidate who wasn’t even on the ballot. I can’t let them take over my party. Plus, Obama has almost no experience and is not qualified to be president, and a disastrously incompetent Democratic presidency would hurt us long-term much worse than a single term GOP presidency with a Dem congress.
AnninCO,
No one here has suggested that Hillary should endorse McCain. Are you daft?
Ann, please don’t pass judgment on my integrity.
Oh, and Ann,
Provide evidence that you are a Hillary supporter. A link to some blog posts (with dates) by you in support of her campaign would be acceptable. If you didn’t write anything, then please link to comments you made in support of Hillary.
Who are these people? Are they Obama’s 400? i want to kindly ask them to eff off!
Hillary can endorse whomever she wants. I follow my own conscience.
Hillary is my senator. Nobody is going to “flush 40 years of hard work down the drain.”
I will may vote for McCain, but there is no way I will vote for Obama.
And this is not about “hurt feelings” or “loyalty to Hillary.” The appeals to my “sacred honor” don’t work either.
Boy, the trolls are out in force today. I guess they are getting nervous. Tough.
I know Boston boomer – but he may have known that she didnt have the unpledged supers lining up behind her. The want obama money.
If I were the DNC I would be pretty uncomfortable right now – but then, what do I know? I thought there was no way anybody could vote for Bush in 2004 – I thought Americans were smart enough to reject that loon and his loon thieving pals.
Trolls annoy me when they try revisionist history.
I’m talking about you, “Beverly Brown.”
Obama always would make some mealy-mouthed statement saying he believed Hillary, but only after the days of fauxrage had run it’s course.
But his campaign would be fanning the flames up until that point.
AnninCO is clearly yet another Obamabot.
My lack of support for Obamahas nothing to do with hurt feelings and everything to do with research, rational thinking and a strong sense of justice. The media and the DNC better get a clue and fast.
Their dismissal of her 18 million supporters is simply another attempt to label those on the Hillary bandwagon as bitter, irrelevant, over the hill and wounded.
Actually, outraged is the proper word: outraged at the theft of Democracy and at Obama’s horrible campaign tactics. He is the Democratic Bush and I am shocked by how many people I know who are delusional and don’t see that.
They are desperate as those dying of thirst in the desert and think the pablum he offers in his eloquent, but canned, phony speeches will somehow ‘lift us up where we belong.’
The desperate naivete of all of this, while understandable, considering the eight years we have all just had to endure, is all the more horrifying because the disappointment to come when they see their messiah is a manchurian candidate while ruin this party for years.
RonK, is the false flag stuff going on at other blogs too? Because I’m on a Yahoo Group where things have gotten a little strange with one sudden conversion.
[Yes, there are reports of false flag operations at other sites -- RonK]
Melissa – These are the “Klingon Honor Trolls” and the “Sorority Sister Trolls.”
Great post. I am really getting more and more uneasy about Obama.
I was wondering if somehow he could be allright, if I wasn’t just being caught up in some kind of mass hysteria because of his treatment of Hillary, racism and sexism… But aren’t elections just getting tougher,,,I told myself, over my queasiness…think of all of those nice young kids getting involved in politics once more…good for the Party…best not to let them down…Hillary’s already been in the WH..
BUT just an hour ago I found what could be said to be a more or less typical post by an Obama supporter:
” I will not indulge the bigotry of “white” working class voters. Those same voters, along with black and Hispanic voters, passed horrible anti-gay amendments.
Are they bitter? I don’t care. They’re on the wrong side of history, and they appear to know it. The real question is: are they stubborn? They have given me every indication to believe they are.”
I cannot agree with “wrong side of history” comments and easy dismissal of poor people-I just can’t. I find it so wrong. I hope Hillary will squeeze herself in in August-otherwise it’ll have to be McCaine.
“myiq2xu, on June 8th, 2008 at 4:21 pm Said:
Trolls annoy me when they try revisionist history.
Obama always would make some mealy-mouthed statement saying he believed Hillary, but only after the days of fauxrage had run it’s course.
But his campaign would be fanning the flames up until that point.
I soooo agree with this – amd it sint just trolls doint it out there.
Sweetie:
Fuck off
Hi Ani! Good to see you here (I am assuming you are the same Ani who posts at TM)! And, as usual, I agree with all you say.
Obama is dangerous to this country. The corrupting influence of his politics on the Democratic Party is almost complete. The money is flowing from Fountain Obama. Like bostonboomer said above, though, the money and support will be cut off if you don’t tow the Obama line.
I refuse to allow this Authoritarian vision to suceed. Obama and his politics should be totally repudiated.
I have a question. If he has won the nomination, she has conceded, and they don’t need us anymore, why the hell are they still trolling here?
Beverly Brown,
It’s interesting to hear your perspective as a member of Trinity Church. Frankly I don’t have a big problem with Rev. Wright, although he will hurt Obama at lot in the GE. I would have respected Obama a lot more if he had defended Wright and explained honestly why he chose the church and remained a member for 20 years. Don’t you think it’s embarrassing that he said in his first speech on the subject that he couldn’t disown Rev. Wright. Then in NC, he did disown him. Finally, he resigned from the Church. Why didn’t he stand up and fight for his church, his pastor and black liberation theology?
On WV and KY, those are states, not cities. I haven’t seen reports of these assassination threats. If you do know where they have been reported, I’d like to see the news stories. I do recall hearing Obama say that he wasn’t contesting WV because he knew he would lose. I don’t think he expected to lose by 41 points. He also said he wasn’t contesting KY.
Why didn’t he talk to the voters of those states and tell them about his values, the issues he intends to fight for, and most of all, what issues are so important to him that he would stand and fight for them. We’ve seen that he won’t stick by his church. Why should be trust him or believe anything he says?
I don’t know, gary. They are fricken whackadoodle?
Arabella,
They wish… Wait until the 527’s start their shenanigans… To coin Tweety, “I get a tingling up my leg just thinking about it.”
Gary, they scurred. A’ight?
1)This is bigger than Hillary or Obama
2)I’m voting for MCCAIN
3)The DNC wants to f*ck over loyal supporters for money, and allow the hijacking of the Democratic party by extremists, to put a democratic Shrub in office?
DAMN STRAIGHT It’s MCCAIN
I don’t care if hillary isn’t able to run in 2012; I AM PISSED!
Although it may seem at times that we’re seeing a flood of trolls here, I believe that it’s just the same lame Obamanationals using different names.
They post the same tired and discreditied crap, often word-for-word.
Can one of you trolls give Axelrod a message for us?
Tell him we said “FUCK OFF”
Thanks
Gary,
I know you know this already, but they are not at all confident that he has won the nomination. They know his negatives have shot up and he got fewer votes from Democrats than the “losing” candidate. They knew he was propped up by Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, and Donna Brazile and their gang. They know it’s a long long time till the end of August, and anything could happen. They need to demoralize us, but I don’t think it’s going to work.
Hey Charles,
I finally bought a new copy of Crowds and Power and I’ve been reading it. It’s fascinating.
Bostonboomer:
There were no threats to Obama that prevented him from campaigning. None
If there were MSObama would have headlined the story for weeks. “Beverly Brown” is just making shit up.
As for “her” reference to Tuzla, recall that George Steph. said in the debate that the Obama campaign was sending emails to everyone in the media pushing the story
Obama lied to black people, telling them that there was something racist about what Bill and Hillary Clinton said suring this primary. They were able to tap into the natural paranoia of the black community, spoon feeding it tales of how the Clintons have all these years been an enemy and all the work they had done was simply “Baboozling”.
I will NOT support a candidate that wins using divisiveness like that especially a Democrat. If Obama gets your vote, you are condoning the racist smearing they used against the Clintons. Who is to say it won’t be used on us again?
Obama is dirty politics at its worst.
Sweetie, on June 8th, 2008 at 4:26 pm Said:
———————————-
Yea, 2 years in the Senate, with the last 1.5 years spent on running for President is ALOT like 12 years of managing an entire state’s economy.
You are an idiot.
FYI, Hillary Clinton was
1)First woman to serve on the good ol’boy, southern dominated Walmart board
2)Pushed specifically to remove the glass ceiling within Walmart for women
3)Walmart wasn’t even half the size it is now, and was creating jobs
4)Michelle AhhhBummer served on the board of one of Walmart’s primary food vendors
HYPOCRITE mean anything to you?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1551441/Obama-called-hypocrite-for-wife%27s-Wal-Mart-link.html
“sweetie” you lose.
[FAKE ALERT -- RonK]
I can’t believe what one of McCain’s supporters said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKm87MV_u_4
He just confirmed McCain’s policies would be an extension of Bush’s policies! The same disastrous policies that have led us to record unemployment, record gas prices, record foreclosures, etc.
There is no way I can vote for McCain now.
Sweetie, on June 8th, 2008 at 4:26 pm Said:
———————————-
Yea, 2 years in the Senate, with the last 1.5 years spent on running for President is ALOT like 12 years of managing an entire state’s economy.
You are an idiot.
FYI, Hillary Clinton was
1)First woman to serve on the good ol’boy, southern dominated Walmart board
2)Pushed specifically to remove the glass ceiling within Walmart for women
3)Walmart wasn’t even half the size it is now, and was creating jobs
4)Michelle AhhhBummer served on the board of one of Walmart’s primary food vendors
HYPOCRITE mean anything to you?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1551441/Obama-called-hypocrite-for-wife%27s-Wal-Mart-link.html
[FAKE ALERT -- RonK]
Hi
Young Judith–this is merely my own opinion, but you appear to me to be a guy pretending to be a young woman.
You know, complete with the faux inability to understand “big” words like derogate.
You could have looked the word up, but instead you “admitted” that you were unaware of the meaning of the word.
It’s all so darn staged Judith.
What is your motive here? Talk about polar bears drowning. Hit a few Obama talking points while pretending to be a Hillary supporter. Later, pretend that you’ve been converted and encourage all of us to do the same–and get on the unity pony with Obama.
That’s what it looks like to me. Just my opinion.
uh oh why aren’t my posts being displayed?
What does “false flag” mean?
GO PUMA!
Sweetie, on June 8th, 2008 at 4:26 pm Said:
———————————-
Yea, 2 years in the Senate, with the last 1.5 years spent on running for President is ALOT like 12 years of managing an entire state’s economy.
You are an idiot.
FYI, Hillary Clinton was
1)First woman to serve on the good ol’boy, southern dominated Walmart board
2)Pushed specifically to remove the glass ceiling within Walmart for women
3)Walmart wasn’t even half the size it is now, and was creating jobs
4)Michelle AhhhBummer served on the board of one of Walmart’s primary food vendors, even as Ahhhbummer was being all indignant about Walmart…
HYPOCRITE mean anything to you?
I don’t think Obama has any worries in Nov. His people have such a way of winning friends and influencing people.
Good thing he’s so strong on the substantive side.
I don’t think these trolls know how to read properly.
I am not not impressed with their taunting, either.
GO PUMA!
Hello all, I just unsubscribed to Democrats.com and if anyone has seen the logo, it now has unity behind it. Appears like they know there are more than just a few unhappy people out there.
“There were no threats to Obama that prevented him from campaigning. None
If there were MSObama would have headlined the story for weeks.”
But don’t you know the media is grossly biased against Obama? /snark
In all seriousness, considering Big O (excuse me, his staff, without his knowledge he had nothing to do with it) has a habit of making laughable yet revolting false accusations of rival candidates threatening to assassinate him, I think that in the litany of shifting excuses he made for blowing off WY and KY we just might have heard a word or two about an actual threat.
BTW “Sweetie”:
Obama has 3 1/2 years in the Senate, Hillary has 7 1/2, or over twice as much.
Obama’s state legislature experience was part time, only 65 days a year.
His teaching job was a sinecure, where he was primarily paid to write his memoirs while in his 30’s.
Hillary was not a lawyer for Walmart, she served on their Board of Directors.
You really should read her resume, and Bill’s, compare them to Obama’s, then STFU
SOMETHING POSITIVE TO ACCOMPLISH: If we are to follow rules as scrupulously as the DNC claims it is doing, then it is OBLIGATORY that the SDs do THEIR JOB! What is their job? To provide reasons and argument to show that, on the full weight of the evidence, there is grounds to infer that B.O. is more likely to be elected in the GE than Hillary. The public does not seem to realize that B.O. is being accorded the nomination because of SD votes. We need a news article “DEMOCRATIC SDs MUST PREPARE TO MAKE THEIR CASE AT THE CONVENTION FOR B.O. AS MOST ELECTABLE!” That is their job—we don’t just go along with positions without data, evidence, and argument–thus we ASSUME that the SDs are preparing their argument while those who believe Hillary to be the more electable are prepared to present theirs!!!! Else the SDs must be declared in VIOLATION OF THEIR STATED REASON FOR EXISTENCE and should be disbanded!
Reposting from downstairs:
Here’s how Obamicans operate. They are in force in every pro Hillary blog attempting to frustrate people into not blogging.
If they can get people to stop blogging, to stop highlighting Obama’s weaknesses, to stop people dialoging then they are more likely to sit out or come back to the fold.
It’s a great tactic but that’s all it is.
P.S. It’s to hot to go outside 103 here in GA.
destardi,
Sweetie has been removed. I missed that one.
I have a great song for all of the trolls. It’s even karyoke so they can sing along:
Was reading the posts, so the trolls are out. For me , they only make my resolve stronger. Don’t push something down my throat, I may bite you.
Charles,
I unsubbed from the DNC a few months ago. Even after that, they sent me some e-mails. Every time, I wrote back to them and explained that until someone stood up and said something about the sexism in the media and told Obama to stop the race-baiting and snide sexist remarks, and until the seated FL and MI, I didn’t want to hear from them. I haven’t gotten anything for awhile. I unsubbed from DFA, Move on, and every other organization that endorsed Obama and told them why. I also unsubbed from Kerry and Kennedy when they endorsed Obama, and from Edwards later. Just a couple of days ago, I had to write to Wespac and tell them I wasn’t going to unify. I get a lot less junk e-mail than I used to.
HI BB: I rewatched the speech last night and figured out what it was that bothered me. While she endorsed BO, the speech was much more about her policies, her health care, the glass ceiling she almost broke through, 3 Dem Presidents and one of the was right over there. It was about US and HER, and occasionally, she yelled out his name.
She endorsed, but didn’t seem to give a long list of why we needed to vote for him.
exactly… I don’t get why they’re still trolling. is it me or was anyone else expecting obama to pivot and start to fight mccain. Why is he still fighting hillary and her supporters? Could it be because they know they can’t win without us and that they expected Hillary’s speech to somehow convert us? At least for me it is about stopping a repeat of Bush 2000, and that’s exactly what I believe Obama is. For those that say that McCain is so far from what Hillary believes in, that may be true, but Obama is further from her than McCain. He is corrupt, illegitimate, and would do more harm to our democracy than mccain ever could. I may not have much in common with mccain ideologically , but at least I don’t think he would further degrade our democracy as Bush has, and as I believe Obama would. And for those of you that continue to call those of us who will choose mccain over obama repubicans, I love my country more than any party. Hate does not dictate how I vote, but rather what I feel is in the best interest of this nation. You guys fucked up by pushing this crap through the party with your rules. Obama will lose, and he will lose because he and his supporters are not the real democrats We are, and you told us to take a hike. Well we did, and we’re not coming back to you this time. You all have nobody to blame but yourselves
Look, I would have to totally and completely hold my nose to vote for McCain, but I will be damned if I will vote for Obama. Better the Devil you know, that the one you don’t.
As far as Iran, that may be a done deal if Israel has decided to go in. ANd I feel much more comfortable with Israel with McCain being in than BO, simply because of the Hamas/Farakhan connection.
Lee Anne,
Yes, we are in a terrible fix, and we need a strong, experienced president badly. Obama is neither strong nor experienced. I would still like Hillary to get the nod. I don’t think that is impossible yet. No one is telling you to vote for McCain. I know I won’t vote for him, as I told you previously. The worst part of what Bush/Cheney did is that they set out deliberately to loot the U.S. Treasury and they succeeded with the help of Democrats in Congress.
I could copy your last paragraph and plug in Obama’s name where you have McCain’s. Obama is an enemy of the legacy of FDR, JFK, and LBJ. He says this explicitly in his book The Audacity of Hope. Have you read it? I have read it carefully, and I have researched his advisors and his top donors. Obama is being put in office to get rid of the last of the New Deal and Great Society programs. It’s true that McCain wants to do that too.
I said all this in my previous response to your comment, and you ignored everything I said. It appears that you aren’t interested in dialogue.
The one thing I do know about McCain is that he will cross party lines, instead of destroy a party like BO and his cronies have done. BO has taken the only party I thought I would ever back and destroyed it. NO, I wont vote for him, never.
Well, after a couple of days I thought I might be feeling a little bit better. But guess what…I feel worse!
And I just can’t imagine how I will feel given all the days that have to pass till November. And if BO wins (God save us!), I just can’t wait to see the happy invitations that he’s going to send out for the picnic he’s going to have “without precondition” with some of the most brutal leaders of the most corrupt governments in the world.
It’s over. The DNC has deserted us…after all, they don’t need our votes to win…they said so on TV!
Okay any Obama you know whos on this board.
What exactly were Obama’s job responsibilities as a community organizer?
What experience does he have running anything?
What did he accomplish in the State Senate the was mostly republican dominated for the eight years he was there?
Something, anything! Did he even manage a Burger King or a McDonald’s?
Good post, Gary. Hope the new job is going well.
With every passing day, I’m more turned off by the blind party loyalty arguments — it’s starting to strike me as a position that’s rigidly ideological. I’m not a helpless child who needs a leader or a party to tell me what to do or what my values are. How about stepping up and doing what’s right instead of blindly obeying the party? You know, I missed the Donna Brazile “an affront to the civil rights movement” gem — after reading your post, I read up on that. It looks like Howard Dean got in on the game, too:
http://washingtonblade.com/2008/3-28/news/national/12301.cfm
“He acknowledged a proposal by gay DNC member Garry Shay of California to add gays to the party’s affirmative action guidelines for selecting convention delegates triggered a contentious internal debate.
Dean said some “influential individuals” within the DNC Black Caucus, such as Donna Brazile, opposed the plan because it was seen as “an affront to the civil rights movement.”
Such unity. I’m all verklempt.
Gosh, there’s post after great post here today:
Grayslady and ronk — thanks for exposing the talking points re: VAWA and Johanna’s Law.
@maria garcia — “Gary, one of the first things that turned me off to the big orange were the posts that started cropping up that Latinos were too racist to vote for a black candidate.”
I couldn’t agree more.
Hi Kim,
Her speech was all about her supporters and her issues. As far as I could see, the ONLY reasons she gave for supporting Obama were that he would support her issues. I also think she meant it on Tuesday night when she said she expected her 18 million supporters to be treated with respect and to be seen. I don’t know how Obama will react to this, but it seems that his supporters haven’t decided to respect us yet. It’s their choice.
LeaAnne: Pardon me, but your opinion is short-sighted and you refuse to see the reason why well-informed people would vote for McCain.
We don’t see McCain as anything but a means to get the DNC back to what it used to stand for — Democracy. If you have a problem with that then I’m sure you’ll find people at the DailyKOS who will understand.
McCain can’t get us into Iran without the Democratic Congress. If we’re in Iran, it’s because the DEMOCRATS in Congress want us there.
Daschle was Senate Majority Leader when the Dems voted on the Iraq War resolution.
The Dems were enlisted in 2006 with a charter to get us out of Iraq. They never did so. They like wars as much as the Republicans do. Wars are good for their personal bottom lines.
If you’re trying to convince us that if McCain wins the election then all of our hair will catch on fire, then sorry, won’t work — at least not with me.
I don’t know how old most of you are, but as a child of the 60’s (that is sitting here listening to Ooh child, Someday, we’ll walk in the rays of a beautful sun) I thought if we stood together and told our government not no, but hell no, they would listen, because they had to. The last eight years have shown me that we have to go in another direction, Hillary could take us there and I am as sure of that as I am as sure of anything. At this point, I am the antithesis of Michelle, I have always been proud of my country, until now.
Obama has already hinted that he would privatize social security, and he made it really clear there will not be Universal Health Care.
As far as his Iraq plan goes. There is no plan. He said he would be out in 16 months, then his advisors told reporters to disregard those plans. In one of the debates, he said he would reinvade Iraq if Al Queda took hold again. Guess what? They will if we leave.
So Obama has told you all that we are essentially NOT leaving Iraq on his watch. He didn’t come out and say it specifically, but if you follow what he has said there can be no denying it.
Kim,
I actually think Hillary was signaling to us the conditions we should put on supporting Obama. I don’t think she has completely given up yet either. What do you think about that?
backtracking a bit, but –
When Geraldine Ferraro made her remark, Senator Obama told reporters, “I don’t consider her remarks racist.”
This is after Obama’s campaign took her remarks, made at a small private event discussing politics which had *no* connection whatsoever to the Clinton campaign, and pushed them into the national media spotlight for the purposes of smearing Clinton.
I agree totally BB and I am in this for the long F!@#*(g haul. If it is a bumpy ride, I have seat belts.
Teresa – Well spoken, as always.
Kim – We will stand strong, and together we will stop the madness.
GO PUMA!
@gary: “exactly… I don’t get why they’re still trolling. is it me or was anyone else expecting obama to pivot and start to fight mccain. Why is he still fighting hillary and her supporters?”
That’s my question, too. It would almost make you think they **know** they weaseled across the finish line being towed by anti-Clinton insanity, wouldn’t it? And a fawning media who jumped on board? And it’s hard to say no to that kind of get out of jail free card… because saying no means they’ll have to put up or shut up, and it’s becoming very clear they got nothin’. No substance, just the Clintons as a crutch that got them where they are.
Mawm, he has backtracked on literally everything he has said. Everything with Obama is yes, no maybe.
bb- I think Hillary was not just making a suggestion to Obama to respect her voters, it was a challenge to him, one that she knows all too well he doesn’t have the integrity to do. She basically said that if he wants her voters he needs to respect them. She knows he will never do this, so it gives her supporters the nod to continue to push back against him. I also noticed that there were a lot of boos coming from that crowd, and she didn’t seem to tell them to stop. I also thought it was telling that she referenced obama’s “4 years in the sen.” a nod to his total lack of experience. The fact that she did not concede or release her delegates tells me that the final chapter has not been written. Regardless if he does happen to make it to november I will vote MY conscience. Unlike Obama supporters, we never belonged to a personality cult to Hillary. I will not blindly vote for Obama simply because Hillary endorses him. I am getting tired of always being right, however, while the rest of the lemmings leap gleefully to their deaths… : )
To the sweeties that are all aflutter because many of us refuse to vote for Obama, LIVE AND LET LIVE. You live your life and make the decisions that are best for you, and I will do the same, thank you very much.
The faux concern and incessant preaching about the evvviiillls of McCain is just infuriating. If you are so concerned about evvviilll McCain getting the keys to the White House, I suggest you call up the DNC and write all your local superdelegates and tell them we better be sure to nominate the only qualified Democratic candidate – Hillary Clinton. The DNC and the superdelegates know that Hillary is far more likely to beat McCain than Obama, and yet they stacked the deck against her at every turn. If McCain is so evvviiilll you better go talk to the DNC about why they showed such blatant favoritism and such a disregard for electability, which is how the superdelegates are supposed to make their decisions.
Obama is not qualified to be President. Period. Being a community organizer, serving as a part time state senator, giving one speech against the Iraq war (that was so inconsequential at the time that they had to stage a re-recording because they didn’t even bother to get it on tape), and being in the Senate for 3.5 years (esp. when most of the time in the Senate has been spent running for a promotion), all with absolutely NO notable accomplishments and NO demonstrated ability to produce positive change does not qualify one to be President. Sorry, it just doesn’t.
And to Beverly, you really need to start doing some fact checking before spreading your lies here. I have a lot of problems with your post, but I will address only what you said about the Canadians and NAFTA. Clearly, you are behind on your reading. The full investigation of this incident confirmed that in fact it was ONLY Senator Obama’s campaign that talked to the Canadians, NOT Senator Clinton’s, just as they stated all along. Now you are informed, so do not ever spread lies here again.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080307.wnaftagate0307/BNStory/National/home
To the sweeties that are all aflutter because many of us refuse to vote for Obama, LIVE AND LET LIVE. You live your life and make the decisions that are best for you, and I will do the same, thank you very much.
The faux concern and incessant preaching about the evvviiillls of McCain is just infuriating. If you are so concerned about evvviilll McCain getting the keys to the White House, I suggest you call up the DNC and write all your local superdelegates and tell them we better be sure to nominate the only qualified Democratic candidate – Hillary Clinton. The DNC and the superdelegates know that Hillary is far more likely to beat McCain than Obama, and yet they stacked the deck against her at every turn. If McCain is so evvviiilll you better go talk to the DNC about why they showed such blatant favoritism and such a disregard for electability, which is how the superdelegates are supposed to make their decisions.
Obama is not qualified to be President. Period. Being a community organizer, serving as a part time state senator, giving one speech against the Iraq war (that was so inconsequential at the time that they had to stage a re-recording because they didn’t even bother to get it on tape), and being in the Senate for 3.5 years (esp. when most of the time in the Senate has been spent running for a promotion), all with absolutely NO notable accomplishments and NO demonstrated ability to produce positive change does not qualify one to be President. Sorry, it just doesn’t.
And to Beverly, you really need to start doing some fact checking before spreading your misinformation here. I have a lot of problems with your post, but I will address only what you said about the Canadians and NAFTA. Clearly, you are behind on your reading. The full investigation of this incident confirmed that in fact it was ONLY Senator Obama’s campaign that talked to the Canadians, NOT Senator Clinton’s, just as they stated all along. Now you are informed, so do not ever spread lies here again.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080307.wnaftagate0307/BNStory/National/home
Gary, I mentioned that yesterday. I kept getting the feeling that she was almost saying it is up to us, and NO, she did not flinch when the boos came. And she did make that statement in a way that sounded like a challenge.
dar1a,g
What they did was pushed everything the Clintons said as racist. Do you know that you can make anything sound like sexual inuendo if you say it the right way? They did the same thing with the Clintons expect they didn’t claim the CLintons were talking about sex. No, the Clintons were KKK racists. They combed through what they were saying on the campaign trail, and had the media make it into racism.
They forever lost my vote when they did that.
Ever since last year when I started interacting with Obama supporters at DK, I have noticed that they refuse to answer specific questions, they won’t engage in a dialogue in which they address your points. Lee Anne, and any other Obama supporters here, why not just have an honest discussion? There are plenty of people here who have done serious research on Obama’s history and record and have thought long and hard about what to do with their primary and GE votes. Have you done your homework? If so, engage with us rather than lecturing us. Answer the questions. Not once in the past 7+ months has an Obama supporter actually done that with me.
Lee Ann, working with Republicans is one of the main themes Obama has emphasized all along. If he’s President, it’s likely that a lot of positions will be filled by the k0s types, many of whom supported the Iraq war and will be just as eager to try and appear tough on Iran. Doing anything domestically is not at the top of their or Obama’s agenda.
Bush didn’t prove anything about POTUS power, he proved a lot about Democratic spinelessness and complicity to his agenda. And it’s for certain a Democratic Congress will go along with anything Obama proposes without any hesitation. I don’t find that at all reassuring.
garychapelhill, I feel crazy saying it so I never say it out loud in my “real life,” but I also feel STRONGLY that the last chapter has not been written, and I do not know why…she isn’t out yet, I don’t know why I feel that way, but I really will hold out hope until August…
Don’t forget, BB, you also have someone here who worked on his campaign early in SC and met both he and Michelle and jumped ship midstream.
I remember thinking, thin, thin, record, but had he not pushed the racist meme, I think I still could have voted for him, not because I think he’s good for the job, but because the dems needed to win.
But oh yeah, if he hadn’t pushed the racist meme, he would never have won the delegates he did….
And as an afterthought, to working on his campaign, I have questioned, that I have given so much time to campaigns, Clarke and Edwards in ‘04 and Hillary in ‘08 and never had a candidate to make it to the nomination, but I have never questioned why I left his campaign.
Obama supporters are not capable of critical thinking or reasoning. History has been plagued with their sort.
True, Arabella. And they so incredibly remind me of Bush supporters. And this election so incredibly reminds me of Bush 2000 election. It’s about as eerie is can be.
Litte Sister, You said,
“And it’s for certain a Democratic Congress will go along with anything Obama proposes without any hesitation. I don’t find that at all reassuring.”
I find it down right scary, and this year I am voting for divided government. Let’s have checks on the Presidency and the Legislature. Let McCain check the Dems in congress, and VIce Versa. The Democrats need to prove they can be effective. They have not done that in the past 2 years. Why should they get a President that will sign sign away. We don’t need big government. We need smart government. Having divided government ensure that only the neccessary legislation gets passed. I believe it may be the reason Bill Clinton and the Republican congress were so successful.
Look what happened when the Republicans had total control. Does anyone think the Democrats are ready for TOTAL control. I’m afraid the abuses would rival the Republicans. It was only with Hillary that I thought the Executive could stay independent of the congress. She has had a history of bucking the party insiders.
Meh, if they’re so concerned about McCain, they should be directing their questions at their post-partisan leader who dislikes the oh so messy battles of the 90s… that were fought to counter the right wing.
Ah…. unity, sweet unity.
Given the cowardly nature of Pelosi et al., divided government makes sense. Time to shake some sense into these people.
If anyone gets a chance there’s a weekend Fox show
called ” The Wall Street Journel Report “;is a MUST SEE! There’s a part where they go into the “behind the scenes”, of the Democratic E-lites,getting rid of the Clinton’s & why.
The sad part is “they” wanted them out / “we” the democratic people DID’NT!!
Oh Jesus, I swear if I have to stomach looking at Nancy Pelosi’s smug ass smile, I will scream.
Obama is a weak man in every sense of the word.
tpt/ny-that has been obvious, and I cannot for the life of me figure out why. Unless, it is because Bill did cross party line, was more of a centrist and it worked. Again, like Gary said “checks and balances”.
I like Cannon’s article today. It’s about what Clinton did for AA’s versus what REZKO, Obama’s buddy did.
It’s just a prime example of how no help goes unpunished.
I really wish Hillary and Bill would quit politics and move overseas. This country doesn’t deserve them.
Kim – Just squeeze your eyes shut so that you can only see a little bit. As soon as Pelosi’s mug is off the screen open your eyes back up.
Treat it like a horror flick
Gary,
I agree with everything you said. I thought it was really interesting the way she reacted to the audience booing and saying nooooooooo! I interpreted it the same way you did. She was giving us guidance. I actually commented about this yesterday on some thread.
Boy, the trolls are out in force today.
McCain was born in Panama because his father are stationed there. Are you saying that children born to soldiers stationed in foreign countries shouldn’t be US citizens?
POdVet, on June 8th, 2008 at 5:57 pm Said:
Did you guys know McCain wasn’t even born in the US? He was born in Panama.
No wonder he wants to give full amnesty to all the illegal aliens in our country. Once that happens, the flood of Latin Americans crossing the border illegally will never stop.
Full amnesty for illegal aliens? No way am I voting for McCain.
————
So who ARE you going to vote for?
Because if you say “Barackula” I’m going to LAUGH my rear end off.
That’s the first time I’ve seen a unity member use racism (those damn Latinos!) as justification to vote for Barackula, and not for McCain…cuz you know, he’s a damn sympathizer with all of those “brown people.”
The trolls are probing for weaknesses. They are not surgical in their precision are they?
RonK, please ignore my post above–false alarm at my Yahoo group.
Lee Anne,
You need to do more research on Obama’s economic advisors. Here is one summary, but you can google their names to get more information.
http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2008/01/09/obamas-economic-advisers/
Raising the cap on social security deductions is the first step toward Obama’s advisors’ plans for privatization. Based on the rest of what you wrote, I can see why you support Obama. I don’t agree that the New Deal programs were intended to be transitory and I don’t agree that LBJ’s programs were a failure. Those programs lifted a lot of people out of poverty and saved a lot of children from going hungry. They were defunded, not because they failed but because politicians wanted the money for other purposes–purposes that would advance their careers and help big business.
So, to you I’m not an “honest Democrat.” Well, fuck you very much, Lee Anne. Please leave and don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. We don’t care if you vote for Obama. Have a good time doing it. But leave us alone.
Arabella Trefoil, on June 8th, 2008 at 5:41 pm Said:
Obama supporters are not capable of critical thinking or reasoning. History has been plagued with their sort.
———–
1)Luv your name
2)Agree with your comments
3)For this comment, just look at the past 7.5 years…obamabushbots!
[...] war is evidenced by this: Hillary is a politician with a long record of commitment and success. Gary from Confluence captures the political import of this culture war as it stands now: Make no [...]
PODVet,
As long as one of your parents is a U.S. citizen you are are also a citizen no matter where you were born. We don’t allow false information to be spread here. Your comments will be deleted.
I think Podvet (Is he pissed or a pod person?) may actually be a republican. as for his argument it is ridiculous. the Panama canal zone was US soil as a territory (much like other US territories and commonwealths) when Mccain was born there. It was ceded back to panama in 1999. He WAS born on american soil and therefore has no immpediment to running for potus.
POdVet, on June 8th, 2008 at 6:07 pm Said:
——————-
Ok smarty, obama wasn’t born in the United States either..cuz according to law, Hawaii doesn’t count
http://www.hawaiiankingdom.info/C1126750129/E20080215214658/index.html
Why are you posting this ridiculous crap?
1)It’s not ok to question obama’s connections without being called racists,
2)but you make insinuated disparaging remarks to Latinos, and you’re good?
AHAHAAH
Gary – Yep. The republicans who think McCain is too liberal keep bringing up the bogus issue of McCain’s citizenship. They should know better than to bring up something the untruth of which is so easily proven.
Another example of Obama crypto-racism.
yeah, he’s a republican, even the obamabots aren’t so unabashedly racist…
BTW, whatever happened to Al Gore? why didn’t he throw his weight behind the unity pony?
LeeAnne – You are quite the little bridge-builder yourself. Reaching out for new Obama supporters is tiring work. Keep your cool or you’ll burn out.
say good night leanne……it makes me sad that Obama’s supporters are so nasty. he deserves better.
gary – I’m saddened by LeeAnn’s comments. She is not the LeeAnn I knew.
LeeAnne: Although I’m sure the FU is an Obama talking point, you might want to share with his camp that people don’t seem to be to receptive to the word.
During the time i watched the events of the Iraq war unfold, I kpt an eye on republican or pro-war blogs. One of these was little green footballs.
I currently take a look at them from time to time to look at their perspective on events. It seems that Obama’s campaign is furiously scrubbing his site and and requesting that google clean out the cache.His blogs related to Israel and the Jewish lobby were getting a lot of neo-nazi, antisemetic visitors. I had noticed that before they removed the pages and was surprised that a campaign would allow people to say certain things which come under inciting language and are punishable by law.
littlegreenfootballs.com
The site as toned down some since 2003. They prevent links to questionable far-right and far-left sites.
Arabella, lol!
Jeeze, Lee Anne calls me dishonest and she wonders why I don’t want to converse with her anymore? I guess that explains why she doesn’t have any problem with her candidate’s arrogant, holier-than-thou attitude, and his outrageous rudeness, including giving his opponent the finger in public.
Voting for Obama is a tacit acceptance of the misogyny, voter suppression, race baiting, and all the other crap that his campaign and the DNC have pulled. Obama and the DNC addressing these issues only now when the damage is already done is laughably insincere and too little, too late. Obama and the DNC need to be sent a clear message that the people refuse to swallow their bullshit. The only way to do effectively do this if Hillary Clinton is not the nominee is to vote for McCain and ensure that Obama loses by a landslide so that they don’t try to pull this shit ever again.
LeeAnne – If Hillary asked you to jump off the George Washington Bridge, would you do it?
LeeAnne:
The reason you don’t understand is that Obama has followers, while Hillary has supporters.
You are a follower of Obama, despite your claims. You do what he tells you to do.
We are loyal supporters of Hillary. We’re not so good at following orders and loyalty isn’t transferable.
JJ –
Thanks, my dear. Great to see you, too.
And to read your comments.
Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961. It became a state in 1958.
McCain was born in the Canal Zone, the child of two US citizens born abroad (like myself.)
My understanding was that the CZ was not a US territory, it was leased from Panama.
BTW – We helped create the Republic of Panama. Teddy Roosevelt encouraged that region of what was then Columbia to declare independence, and then we immediately “recognized” them as a nation and agreed to protect them (in exchange for a 99 year lease on the CZ.)
We just happened to have a few gunboats nearby at the time as well, allowing us to ensure their independence. (hence “gunboat diplomacy”)
Charles, I think that’s McCain, not Obama.
I know you are brilliant, must be the O-borg overload.
PS, I saw your site, I’ll be lurking everyday!
Maybe we should call these trolls “missionaries” instead of “sweeties?”
They come here on a mission to convert us and save our souls.
“Worship The One, and He will lead you to the Promised Land.” All you have to do is drink the kool-aid”
Sorry, we “just say NO to kool-aid” around here.
re LeeAnne — That’s the real LeeAnne, a devoted Hillary follower. We should expect that many of Hillary’s supporters will part company on the ‘What now?” question, and not treat them unkindly.
However, I would encourage LeeAnne to keep an open mind, as there are arguments and circumstances that hae not yet presented themselves.
Elizabitchez nails it with this comment:
In other words, LEAVE US ALONE. We don’t want you or your 0bambi!
Go away!
NOBODY WANTS YOU OR THE 0BAMBI.
We are PUMAs – we don’t want unity, we are actually assimilating with 4 more years of McCain, as 8 years of Bush have toughened our skin. But what we won’t do is have idiots who claim to be “Democrats” run our party into the ground as you have. Fine. Fall over the cliff. It’s not like we didn’t warn you.
We will either vote McCain, vote Green Party (Cynthia McKinney is black and female, so rock on girl!), stay home or write in Hillary’s name if our state allows it.
We will not vote for Obama.
Roe v Wade will remain intact. If Dubya didn’t get rid of it, nobody is going to get rid of it, so stop it.
The more you push, the more we resist.
To Kim:from TPT/NY,
I heard they “blame” Clinton for “them” losing the house & the Senate in 1994; instead of “looking” in the mirror(s) @ themselves. I remember one of the
debates Obama accused Hillary of “blocking out”
members of her own party during 1993 H/Care work.
I guess he’s pay-back!
Glad you’re back, Gary. Missed ya’.
I never understood that line of argument because I specifically remember seeing her on some committee advocating and explaining her health care program in minute details and was so very impressed by her knowledge! Here’s a great article in the Houston Chronicle about Obama not committing to universal health care:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/5823929.html
Where’s the commitment to universal health care?
By FROMA HARROP
A remarkable thing just happened in the people’s party. Democrats have chosen a candidate, in the year 2008, who does not have a plan for universal health coverage. Barack Obama caresses the words “universal coverage” almost hourly, but his proposal offers nothing of the kind — unlike the plans of Hillary Clinton, John Edwards and other Democratic hopefuls.
Most striking, the man who showed such timidity on health care became the hero of ardent progressives. So forgiving was their love of Mr. Big that they virtually abandoned what should have been the Democrats’ most potent promise: medical coverage for all.
This is political opportunity lost. In a new CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll, 49 percent of registered voters list the economy as their No. 1 issue, with the Iraq war second at 19 percent. Health care comes in a close third at 14 percent.
more……
the honeymoon might be coming to an end and maybe the journalists will finally do their job and investigate him throuroughly!
[...] makes an interesting point as well, “Barack Obama is starting to look more and more like George W. Bush circa 2000. Back [...]