• Tips gratefully accepted here. Thanks!:

  • Recent Comments

    paper doll on Damn you, Ken Burns
    riverdaughter on Damn you, Ken Burns
    riverdaughter on Employment Index: Week Th…
    paper doll on Damn you, Ken Burns
    paper doll on Damn you, Ken Burns
    ProNewerDeal on Employment Index: Week Th…
    katiebird on Damn you, Ken Burns
    riverdaughter on Damn you, Ken Burns
    Sweet Sue on Damn you, Ken Burns
    r u reddy on Employment Index: Week Th…
    grayslady on Employment Index: Week Th…
    Monster from the Id on Employment Index: Week Th…
    r u reddy on Go Scotland!
    r u reddy on Employment Index: Week Th…
    r u reddy on Employment Index: Week Th…
  • Categories


  • Tags

    abortion Add new tag Afghanistan Al Franken Anglachel Atrios bankers Barack Obama big pharma Bill Clinton Chris Christie cocktails Conflucians Say Dailykos debate Democratic Party Democrats Digby DNC Donna Brazile Economy Elizabeth Warren feminism Florida Fox News General Glenn Beck Glenn Greenwald Goldman Sachs health care Health Care Reform Hillary Clinton Howard Dean Joe Biden John Edwards John McCain Jon Corzine Karl Rove Keith Olbermann Matt Taibbi Media medicare Michelle Obama Michigan misogyny Mitt Romney Morning Edition Morning News Links Nancy Pelosi New Jersey news NO WE WON'T Obama Obamacare OccupyWallStreet occupy wall street Open thread Paul Krugman Politics Presidential Election 2008 PUMA racism Republicans Sarah Palin sexism Single Payer snark Social Security Supreme Court Terry Gross Tim Geithner unemployment Wall Street WikiLeaks women
  • Archives

  • History

  • RSS Paul Krugman: Conscience of a Liberal

  • The Confluence

    The Confluence

  • RSS Suburban Guerrilla

    • Nightmare on Graham street
      Jon Stewart really let Goober Graham have it last night over his ISIS pantswetting: The Daily ShowGet More: Daily Show Full Episodes,Indecision Political Humor,The Daily Show on Facebook
  • RSS Ian Welsh

    • Scotland, England and Hegemonic States
      When you’re on your way up, everyone wants to join or be your friend.  When you’re on your way down, well, it’s the opposite. Scotland, with free education and a belief in social welfare that England has lost, is on the edge of voting to leave in a referendum vote. It probably doesn’t hurt that [...]
  • Top Posts

Saturday: RBC Day of Reckoning

Please see garychapelhill’s live blog below straight from the RBC venue.

I am still at home. Going to DC today turned out to be trickier than I thought. But fortunately for us, garychapelhill was able to snag guest blogger credentials for the meeting. I think we are in good hands.

If you’ve been following the two streams of debate at TalkLeft between Jeralyn and Big Tent Democrat, you have a pretty good idea of what is at the heart of the argument. Big Tent Democrat is a more concrete thinker. His position is that there were rules that were violated by several of the states in the run-up to the primaries and that no state should be singled out for jumping ahead in line. The issue for him appears to be more one of consistency. Either all face punitive action or none should. I gather that he was disappointed with the position of Ickes and Flournoy in the last conference call (I missed this), in that the Clinton campaign maintains that the two states in question did violate the rules. But it is a bad idea to now impose penalties on additional states, thereby risking that NH, NV, IA and SC will harbor resentment towards the party. Big Tent Democrat has concluded that the best argument for including them in the end is an altruistic one: it is better for the Democratic party to live up to its principles and for its own self interest to keep the states from bolting in the fall, it should count every vote and allow both states to participate in the determination of the outcome. (Did I get that right, BTD?)

Jeralyn, on the other hand, says that there is no need for Clinton to ask for anything less than full seating. As I interpret it the positions of Ickes and Fournoy from a previous conference call(and I may be wrong about it), the idea is that there is no doubt that the rules were broken. One may argue that acknowledgment of the infraction lays the groundwork for progress. Get that out of the way so there is no argument about it. It does not need to be said that FL and MI were hardly exceptions. There may be disputes that the state parties and legislatures were not diligent enough to prevent the schedule jump. It is still in the best interest of the party to abide by its principles and recognize the legitimacy of the primaries as they were held in all of the states. It is the right thing to do and will cause the least damage to the party in the fall.

The prescribed remedies from the Clinton campaign are as follows: 1.) Seat all of the delegates and recognize all of the votes as cast. That is, apportion the delegates for Florida as determined by the January 29th primary. For Michigan, award Clinton her delegates, leave the uncommitted delegates as uncommitted. The designation of “uncommitted” is recognized by the party. Allow the uncommitted delegates to determine their candidate at the convention. It may turn out that they all vote for Obama, or go to some other combination of candidates. 2.) If the RBC is set on enforcing a punishment, it is better to seat all delegates with half of a vote than 50% of the delegates with a full vote. Certainly, this is the less desirable outcome but it could be worse.

In the meantime, let’s keep our eyes on the prize, hope for the best and send our good wishes to Hillary and her team, FL State Senator Arthenia Joyner and former Michigan Governor Jim Blanchard, who will argue on her behalf before the committee.

Please use this as an open thread to send your good wishes to the campaign. Lurkers, come out of your shell and join the virtual protest.

Up to the Minute News Sources:

CNN Poliitcal Ticker: Democrats All Night Session Falls Short on MI, FL Delegations – sounds like the meeting will be contentious.

CSPAN Live Broadcast Starting at 9:30 am.

Ooops! I just saw the live blog, (see below)

About these ads

62 Responses

  1. (waving)”Give us back our Delegations!”

    Good Morning, Riverdaughter!

  2. Good Morning all! I was SOOO wanting to be able to keep up with all this today- but sadness (sigh and tears) my pastor died Wed and the funeral is today. So I will be attending Mass this morning and joining my faith community in celebrating the life of a wonderful priest.
    I will be praying for Hillary while I celebrate the life of Fr. Dave, who fought the good fight against cancer for six years while actively ministering to the people of our area.

  3. I’m wondering what case the Obama representatives from FL & MI are going to make:

    – Don’t Count “our” votes?

    – There is a reason we sabotaged ANY type of revote in “our” respective State?

    I don’t think that is a viable position, but hey, Hillary is eeeeeeevil.

  4. Lots of complaing by Obama callers on CSPAN about Obama not being on the ballot (conveniently or ignorantly ignoring the fact that he took his name off the ballot). We could have a revote on Aug. 5th to solve that issue.

  5. MABlue: LOL! You are so right. I remember taking Speech and Rhetoric in HS when we had to pick debate topics. One group picked STD’s and I’ll never forget the teacher’s response. “What is your argument for? How does one take an affirmative position on venereal disease?”
    This is Obama’s and the DNC’s position. We should have framed it like this from the beginning.

  6. WS: It’s even worse than that. Sam Stein wrote a post for HuffPo about a week ago defending Obama against assertions that he was trying to delegitimize MI primary by removing his name. Not so, claims Obama. He never gave MI permission to put his name on the ballot in the first place. They did it without even an “By your leave”! How dare they?! So, he did the only rational thing, he took his name off the ballot. But if they are going to count anyway, he wants half. Yep all of the votes that were uncommitted and some of Hillary’s too. It’s only fair.
    Chutzpah.
    He may still get his way but I;ll bet he never expected Hillary to be so dogged and persistent. I get the distinct impression that he really did think she’d bow out if enough pressure was applied.

  7. riverdaughter:

    Grrrrrrrrreat analogy.

    Maybe the Obama campaign will solve that conundrum today once for all.

    LOL! That’s really a great story.

  8. You keep hearing the anecodotal stories of people who decided not to vote in MI or FL because they didn’t think their votes would count. “My uncle didn’t go out and vote because he knew it didn’t matter.” Please.

  9. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

    I just heard Donna Brazile.

  10. RD: A revote would solve the issue of how many votes Obama would get in Michigan. I wonder why their camp or the DNC doesn’t offer this solution…

  11. Well, C-SPAN just show that the superdelegates are majority Clinton. But maybe the uncomitteds (like a certain lady) stayed uncommitted so they could be looked at as “neutral” just for this meeting. Not trying to be too conspiratorial, but just a thought…

  12. on Washington Journal:

    There was just a great call from an “oxymoron” as she called herself. She is an AA republican for Hillary.

    Another call from a Hillary supporter who said if the voters of MI and FL are disenfranchised, she will have “No Problem” voting for a Republican “for the first time in my life”. And, she goes on, that there are many more former Democrats who will do the same.

    Some hillary haters were utterly vicious. Amazing

  13. Heh, Dr. Dean just counted all 35 million voters, so…. :)

  14. I had to put Dean on mute. Now that I know what he really stands for, I can’t stand to listen to him spouting his lies.

  15. Dean just mentioned the voters in the Texas primary — he left out the part about how their intent was overturned by the caucuses that night.

  16. The media told us Hillary is evil and Obama is good.

    Get your facts straight Coward Dean.

  17. RD–

    I noticed in that CNN story you linked Obama again claimed that the “followed the roolz” by taking himself off the MI ballot and that he didn’t campaign in either FL or MI. No corrections by CNN writer, of course.

  18. Dean does know the 50 states include Floridan and Michigan. Right?

  19. I’m pretty sure I WILL NOT COME TOGETHER.

  20. These are small people in a small little world. Again, they think they are the Supreme Court in 2000. They now have the chance to CHOOSE a president. This is what they’ve been waiting for. Much like the republicans waited and waited to get revenge for Nixon by impeaching Bill Clinton.

  21. This Dean/Gore story is the most self-serving crap I’ve ever heard. Who the hell wants to hear about Dean’s hard-fought campaign? Is this a joke?

  22. Dean was treated badly?

    Hear Hillary guffaw!

  23. OK, I put Dean on again. He is pontificating about how “this is about our country.” No kidding. I don’t want a dirty corrupt Democrat to win the nomination, because he will lose the general election to McCain. I don’t want another Republican president.

    Oh brother, NOW he’s talk about the sexism? Too little too late.

  24. It has to be a fair process for people to unite, and it hasn’t been a fair process when you neutralize two of the largest states.

  25. Did Dean denounce that Priest? Has Dean ever stood up for Hillary?
    “That will stop” — When, Dean?

  26. Oh Coward spare me!

    Where were the racist remarks?

  27. “Respect the voters who did not turn out”

    (snort)

    “Respect the campaigns that followed the rules”

    (snort)

    “Respect the 48 states that followed the rules”

    (snort)

    I guess we know where HE stands.

  28. MABlue,

    I’m a hell of a lot more than “pretty sure” I won’t come together. They kicked me out of the party. If they want me back it’s on them to show me.

  29. There is never 100% participation.

  30. Somewhere in Vermont Dr. Judith Dean is tending to her patients….

  31. Take your pseudo-unity somewhere else.

  32. How come the DNC didn’t let Florida or Michigan comply with the rules? They were perfectly willing to go with revotes but the Obama campaign blocked them.

    Florida couldn’t revote because the new machines weren’t ready but they could have allowed one in July. Michigan could certainly have a revote within the June 10th frame until Obama blocked the revote and they can certainly revote on Aug. 5th.

  33. What kind of example do we set for our children if rules are broken, over looked and then allowed?

  34. Like FDR said, rules aren’t important, principles are. Count every vote!

  35. Did you EVER think you would ever hear a Democrat say, “All 48 states” — What the hell?

  36. Can they knock it off with 2 States “violating” anything?

  37. MI & FL lost a lot of money because there was no campaigning in those States.

    That’s bad enough!

    There has never been a 100% loss of votes anywhere.

  38. This is a total set-up. This committee is only committed to defending their previous mistakes.

  39. FALSE!

    The Obama campaign sabotaged every attempt.

    LIARS!!!

  40. Talk about CYA speeches.

  41. Slave Revolt:

    It was Bourbon. Get your facts straight.

    Any more insults you have for us?

  42. Slave Revolt,

    Further attempts to hijack the conversation will be deleted.

  43. MABlue: Slave Revolt must have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed.

  44. excellent. I am very happy to vote for McCain. It will be my pleasure. And it will be the pleasure of all my friends and family who feel the same way. Call me whatever name you want it’s nothing worse than you people have done to hillary.

  45. As I said yesterday, any Democrat complicit in this charade will receive ZERO support from me. In fact, I’ll be looking forward to working AGAINST them.

    As Teresa remarked, the guilt-tripping won’t work this go ’round. Sorry.

  46. I’m starting to like this Jon guy.

  47. As I said a couple weeks ago, if Obama’s the nominee it’ll be like watching the Titanic set off on its maiden voyage across the Atlantic. In which case, Hillary can give them all a “bon voyage” from the docks.

  48. Got this from a Talk Left commentor, Wall Street Journal article:

    Tuesday may not End Democratic Fight

    BTW, how do I properly do links? The links in my comments almost always trigger the spam filter.

  49. Yes, we won’t be hopping on that plane to Jonestown. But, hey, have a good time and stay hydrated.

  50. WS:

    Here is the story:

    Tuesday May Not End Democratic Fight

  51. Ooops, thanks MABlue.

  52. Thanks to all for listening to this stuff so I don’t have to. I have bound my head with that stretchy band-aid-colored material to hold it together. I have hairline cracks on my skull. I hope to make it to the end of this primary season without brain matter everywhere.

  53. Waving at Joanie!

  54. Is that Teresa LaPore in the audience?????? I think she’s wearing an Obama sticker.

  55. Kisses to sister Katie:) I love waking up on the west coast and seeing your good-morning greetings. I love it here.

  56. Bill Nelson .. – finally someone talking strong for the voters in FLA .. all most 2 million voters voted in Fla ..

    No . Punishment ..

  57. Bill Nelson is as strong as I’ve ever seen him.

  58. Agree MaBlue .. wow ! – I’m impressed .

  59. Go Bill .. !

  60. Any word on our protest outside?

  61. Jeralyn says – “It sounds like Florida will be seated full strength with each delegate getting 1/2 vote. Chuck Todd says then all the primary votes will count…that’s great for Hillary’s popular vote total.”

  62. Hackery. They are fighting for the non-voters????

Comments are closed.

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 455 other followers

%d bloggers like this: