It’s been a long time since we blogged a debate so some of you may not be familiar with the way The Confluence does things. We tend to pay special attention to body language. It can be very revealing. Also, *I* don’t usually follow along in real time because I am a neurotic type and worry I’m going to jinx her. So, it’s up to you guys to keep up to the minute.
One other thing, if you like the idea of studying body language, record the debate but watch it live with the sound off. Write down your impressions. Then go back and watch it with the sound on. Notice any difference? My theory is that for people whose native language is not English, body language is an important factor in how they perceive who wins and loses.
Ok, here we go.
Filed under: Presidential Election 2008 | Tagged: ABC, April 16 Debate
Hill looks nice. Warm turquoise. Very flattering. He looks like he is going to a funeral. (But *whose* funeral?) Black and gray?
No applause?!
Oy. Now I have two parties to attend.
Ooo, he goes first with his opening statement. I probably would not bring up the frustration thing. She’s now responsible for high gas prices and unemployment? “I’m not saying it’s your fault, I’m saying I’m going to blame you.”
He looks tired to me. They both looked uncomfortable when Gibson asked about agreeing to put the loser on the ticket. Obama avoided answering.
A commercial? WTF?
“I know that Barack feels the same way…” Is he going to work hard if Hillary is the nominee? I really doubt it.
BB: She doesn’t look tired to me.
I wish he would stop moving around. He’s bouncing around like a little kid.
How well did he rehearse his response in “bittergate”?
Ohhh, so we have “no choice”, eh? Well, after Denver we don’t but we have plenty of choice now. Too late about his supporters supporting her.
Oh no!
Hillary just pander to Scranton.
rd–
I said Barack looks tired, not Hillary. She looks really good.
He is hoarse too. I thought he was looking a little chastened, but he had a chance to apologize for what he said, and he just kept digging.
He’s finally learning the lesson of listening to her attentively.
Sorry, BB. My mistake.
How come he can make a mistake and mangle a statement but she can’t? It looks like she is not gazing up at him anymore like he did in earlier debates. That’s good, It looked too deferentual before.
Oh please BO stop the horse crap!
Look forward to reading your take on the rest.. off to watch with a bunch of mostly Obama folks.. should be.. interesting.
Baking cookies!
BO is an asshole!
so far Hillary is following my advice lol. Stressing her posives and not attacking him personally. blema me if it doesnt work.
He is being awfully rough I think – not otugh really – kinda sounds slighly peeved and he tried to get personal with her.
if hillary gets the no,ination we will be buried in ads about COOKIES DAMMIT!
BO has never been able to understand that it’s not his words we have problems with, it’s what he thinks.
We never understand what he meant and want he actually wanted to say. This is what typical politicians do.
I always think about George Orwell’s famous essay when I hear BO justify something:
George Orwell Essay: Politics and the English Language
Oh, God, it’s Annie Get Your Gun. Did they do the “I’m better”, “No, I’m better” thing on purpose?
mablue – if you dont understand what he is saying how do you know what he thinks? the point would be better made – and I think what you meant – is that not understnaidng him means not really knowing what he thinks…esp when it changes.
I actually do understnad what he means – I just dont think what he says wil win the GE.
mablue – seriously p please excuse me if I seemed to try to correct you. Just my take and I respect yours.
Rd – that is funny!
Maybe I’m just biased, but it seems to me that Obama is being awfully defensive about the “gaffes.” He claims his campaign has been about offering specific solutions to problems. Oh really?? Couldn’t prove it by me.
MABlue: It’s stupid for him to go onto his misstatements. 1.) It calls attention to his misstatements. 2.) He’s protesting too much and 3.) He’s making a case for the voters to excuse her misstatements as well.
DUMMMMMB remark on the Cookies. WTF was that all about? Is he trying to trivialize her as a first lady? Jeez, how demeaning. She was a first lady lawyer from Arkansas back then. Doesn’t he recognize that she’s a fricking two term senator NOW?
Hey, if he doesn’t want to be president, it’s ok by me.
This is a part of his speech!
Fergawdsake!!!
Good grief–he really has trouble saying anything positive about Hillary! Especially on a personal level.
Oh, he just got into his stump speech–the rhythm, faster, and now had to tie it in and went halting again.
He looks uncomfortable, a little pissed–but I may be wrong–He doesn’t look like the rally-style Obama.
He was watching question about flag stuff–he looked very unhappy. He hasn’t mastered the pol’s stoicism.
She learned the wrong lesson? OMG. I can’t believe this. She went through 8 years of a prosecutorial crotch shot to win the senate seat in NY and she didn’t learn her lesson?
And he’s still claiming he didn’t know about the things Wright said in the videos. But those videos where the ones that were described in the Rolling Stone article. He just lies straight out and assumes no one will check on him.
At least they are asking him some tough questions. Will they ask about Rezko and the recent revelations that he lied about knowing Auchi?
Did he prep for this debate? He seems to be as halting as he was in the early debates.
Manufactured issue? And he couldn’t get to the nugget of his reply until way, way, way into his reply!!!
rd:
your livestream is like 2 days behind.
Is BO ever gonna answer a question directly instead of dancing around it? He never addressed George’s questions about his emails attacking Hillary’s honesty. He didn’t take responsibility for the emails.
uh oh! He’s going to have to talk about William Ayers.
MABlue: Has she had a bad moment?
This is exactly what I am saying.
We are wrong to question anything about BO.
rd:
No. The only time the reaction was negative was on Bosnia.
Obama looks really pissed while HIllary is talking about what the Republicans will throw at him.
William Ayers–he should have had a reply practiced and ready to go.
Defensive again.
OMG–he’s just compared Tom Coburn to Wm. Ayers.
An anti-choice stupid bloviator to a bomber. Now, in my day, the math building at the Univ. of WI-Madison was fire-bombed and and person died. I was very anti-war, but I was not way out there. Hippie more than yippie.
I know what he’s doing–but couldn’t he have prepped for this? So his words would be direct and not subject to being picked out for 30 second attack ads?
HRC just won the debate.
That was the best line of the campaign!
BB: She’s trying to make him the poison pill.
Oh, she should have just told the entire Bosnia story. It’s a great story. Very CinC.
I hope you are right MA Blue!
It’s a primary you dummy.
The Rep are vicious.
jaw: You’re right; he seems ill prepared. What’s new.
Is there supposed to be one more debate? In NC? At one point it was supposed to be prior to the PA vote, but what has happened with that?
Republicans should apologize for the George Bush years and not run anybody this time!!!
Wow! That was spectacular.
ufa: Nahhh, he’s being coy. He’s *killing* up there. Just wait and see. He’s been brilliant.
jawbone:
It’s on Saturday, 4/19
Did the Weather Underground people that Clinton pardoned express remorse? Usually you have to express remorse to get a presidential pardon. Ayers has said he has no regrets. Not to mention that Hillary didn’t pardon them anyway.
Yeah, MABlue,
Her remark was spectacular!
Uggh! I can’t my way out of his labyrinthine prepositional phrases.
I so totally *LOVE* Wesley Clark.
Bill Clinton pardoned the terrorists. Hillary Clinton is not friendly with anyone of them.
For those who haven’t noticed: Hillary and Bill are 2 different people, just like Barack is not Michelle.
Got that?
MABlue, I love you.
Your responses are like, platinum.
What was brilliant about Bill Clinton is that he answered questions the way kids are taught to write paragraphs. Beginning rhetoric.
He gave a topic sentence. He enumberated his supporting points, then filled in details, and wrapped everything up with a conclusion, re-emphasizing his main point..
He made it easy for his listeners to follow him.
Obama wends his way through some verbiage, then, usually, realizes he hasn’t made a point and comes up with one.
Now answering about getting out of Iraq–seems to have this answer down better.
HRC is on a roll baby.
Don’t stop her.
MABlue,
I’ll bet HIllary doesn’t go to parties at those people’s houses either.
Well, he had a good opening on the Iraq thing. Then began a walkabout.
Thank, MABlue for the NC date.
This guy doesn’t belong on the stage with her, I am sorry.
Jawbone: ditto. Even if I thought Obama would be the best president in the world, I would have a hard time listening to him. It’s painful
jawbone,
He was ready on the Iraq answer, because he just copied what Hillary said.
MABlue: Well, he is the token male. That’s the only reason he’s up there.
Professor of English who I pal around with, who also happens to be a former terrorist. No biggy.
riverdaughter:
Another softball question for you:
Is it just me or are Obama’s answers so rambled and incoherent?
My word, Barack is such a bloviator. If I didn’t realize this before I do now. Good gravy!
MABlue:
Jinx.
The re-education of Barack Obama.
Hey edwardian:
Haven’t seen you around for some time.
MABlue: Yes, but to some people, a long ramling answer sounds esoteric and abstract instead of rambling and unintelligible,
Sen. Coburn is going to attack Obama and continue this story. Coburn will not take kindly to being compared to an unrepentant terrorist.
you guys are funny – nice reading your comments. Enjoy…
Listening to BO is painful.
*waves* to MABlue.
I’ve been keeping a low profile I guess. But I drop-in to keep abreast of our community’s efforts to see Hill as our Dem nom. on the regular – make no mistake.
rd, Esoteric Barry is putting me to sleep. Oh, finally, Hillary speaks.
She is poised, alert, energetic.
To all ladies:
I must apologize that you guys have to be so much better than we are, and still fight to be consider equal.
HRC is so superior to this guy, it’s not even funny.
Hillary is making BO look bad on Social Security. He claims he cares about it, but I don’t believe him.
Are we kidding? THIS is the guy we’re gonna send off to recapture the WH? Oy.
Hillary is so Smart!!! And no, Social Security is not in crisis, Obama.
You are all soooo biased
Hillary takes Obama To Shool
Vile Hillary Brings a Young Student and Humiliates Him
It’s hard not be biased when you see a master and an grasshopper. :>
Anyway, should she start going at him for the cheap shots? Or is she looking better by ignoring him.
I had a bad day at work so I’m looking for some swings.
MABlue: We’re not better or worse. We just want to be recognized as persons capable of doing anything that doesn’t require a penis.
Who Put That Usurper On The Stage?
What is wrong with having a penis?
Hillary is a much better talker. Where did Obama get a reputation for eloquence?
rd:
Excuse me, I am trying to come up with a one liner summarizing the debate.
Cdalygo: I’m so sorry you had a bad day at work. I hope it’s just a passing thing.
The Emperor Has No Clothes
She’s just great on the issues. The only slight thing is that I wish she’d said that Social Security was secure for XX years. But, still she used it to hammer Bush.
She’s terrific!
How Hillary Destroyed The Thrill Before It Got Up Matthews’ Nuts
Kbird: from the Obamaphiles. He’s gotten so many gifts he’s iike a frickin’ Pandora.
Well he sucks. I think.
MABlue: heh
MABlue: He’ll take cialis before he has to comment.
(giggle) cialis
penis, nuts, cialis, oh my… I am leaving
MABlue: How about “Hillary and Token Male Battle for Nomination”
Upstate: Sorry, we got carried away. We’ll behave.
Seriously!
Is there any issue Hillary doesn’t have a scholarly ease with?
riverdaughter please answer.
Please, do NOT behave, that is what makes this site fun.
lol @ RD. Fives points for you.
The Emperor Has No Clothes?
How about: The Emperor has clothes and not much else.
I mean, it _is_ a nice suit and he looks good in it.
Wasn’t his signature on that questionnaire that said he didn’t believe people should buy or sell guns? Obama just said his writing wasn’t on it.
Obama doesn’t want the mentally deranged to have guns. Is that a real mental designation?
MABlue: I don’t think she is conversant on the Born-Oppenheimer approximation. But you know, she’s probably a whiz on Hamiltonians.
Kbird: I think one of the criteria for a Catholic annulment is that one spouse has “magical thoughts” so mental derangement sounds reasonable.
It seems like a no brainer to not let the mentally deranged play with guns.
rd: I mean in public policies.
I know she’s not a polymath but I think she’s the closest anyone in public office could come to being one.
Btw, don’t be so sure about the Born-Oppenheimer approximation. We are talking about Hillary Clinton.
Alright, when is Hillary gonna smack Stephanophalous into next week? Just let me know so I won’t miss it.
Does anyone make issues more complicated than Obama does? He goes on and on. I feel like I can take whole naps while he talks.
Then Hillary comes in and in one sentence says more than all his babbling.
If Hamiltonians are $20 dollar bills, then she should be expert. We just sent her ten more this afternoon.
River, thanks. My job involves dealing with some people who are mentally ill. Sometimes things just hit the fan. (I do employment investigations.)
That’s why I didn’t appreciate his mentally “deranged” remark. Show some leadership jerk.
“one of the criteria for a Catholic annulment is that one spouse has “magical thoughts” ”
Wow, I wish I’d known that 20 years ago. hmm. Maybe it’s not too late to slap annulment papers on him?
Are checking the feedback online?
HRC gets close to the perfect rating on many answers.
Ah, on affirmative action–she’s taking the “fairness’ approach, for everyone who needs it.
Try to create the conditions to allow everyone to live up to their potential. Healthcare!! Whoohooooo!
Damn–she’s tying the package together!
Now–gas prices. Told truckers gas pricing must be investigated and Bush will not use the tools government has. Are some traders manipulating the market?
WINDFALL PROFITS TAX!! Yessssss!!!
kbird: heh
Her enthrusiasm talking about her proposals is fantastic. She looks happy to be there talking to people about these things. He looks miserable (but cool, I guess).
Upstate, (smiling)
Oh, and BO is doing another me too answer.
Is he just copying off her paper or what?
edwardian, yes. at least I think so.
I think we do have a monopoly of good ideas.
Oh brother! Here we go with the praise for George Bush the first. Of course Obama can’t say he’d ask Bill Clinton’s advice. But Hillary will have constant access to a much better former prez than Bush’s daddy!
Seeing and hearing Obama blather on, the lyrics
I’m hooked on a feelin’ … high on believin’
come to mind.
Cdalygo: Sounds distressing. Do the debates actually help you relax?
Obama loves George Bush Sr. Doesn’t he know Bush Sr. won’t talk to him if Obama snubs his son?
I like these 2 person debates.
It really helps make it VERY clear which candidate is a well-rounded, educated genius and which one is ….
an absolute idiot.
Ditto WS… how creepy .
How Hillary Clinton Destroyed The Democratic Party By Purposefully Knowing More Stuff Than Barack Obama
(Too long)
That just sounded so naive of Obama.
MABlue, if any politician knows about that poly? thingy, wouldn’t it be Hillary? She’s never stumped.
Somehow I don’t think George H.W. Bush is going to be offering advice to Obama. He isn’t as friendly toward Democrats as Obama is toward Republicans. I don’t even think Obama is a Democrat. He’s just about his own story and nothing else.
MABlue: she has some nerve… heh.
Now Hillary is Displaying her Depth and Breadth: Is there anything she won’t do to get elected?
Yeah, they help me relax. It’s like watching a football game. (Though with a much cuter and smarter quarterback — i.e. HRC.)
All of us able to gather around a keyboard to type messages about something we watch online should send a moment of thanks to our makers. Some folks are trapped in worlds that don’t actually exist. The problem comes when that world falls apart for them and they lash out.
Anyway back to watching her kick his ass. Go Hillary!
Was This Combat Fair?
Hillary really looks happy and upbeat. Her internal polling must look really good. And I really think she enjoys this. Obama looks miserable and has through the whole debate.
Ya know, I’d like to have my president be noticeably smarter and knowledgeable than me. Bill fit the bill easily. As did Gore and Wes Clark. But Hill? She’s way up there. I freakin love smart people who know how to keep it real. How is this race even close?
I’m watching at the link Charles gave us. there’s a green bar that goes up when some group of independant voters approve of what’s being said. Hillary’s green bar is going off the screen, it drops whenever Obama speaks. whoever these people are, she has won with them!
now let’s wait for the msm to tell us how Obama hit it out of the park……
MABlue: LOL! The Obamaphiles are stamping their tiny feet. They won’t eat go to bed if she beats him.
BB: probably he does not understand why he has to debate Hillary when he is sooo deserving of the nomation already.
No wonder I am sore.
I just watched young Mike Tyson versus MABlue.
Obama keeps repeating his stump speech.
He said all this stuff in one of the questions.
Hillary directly asked the people of Pennsylvania for their votes.
But, Obama didn’t — he never asked.
That’s a very serious mistake. People don’t vote for you if you don’t ask.
Why does he always rant against Congress and the “establishment” as if he isn’t as firmly entrenched in this as the ones he upbraids? Gimme a break!
(cackling)
This is awesome, y’all, keep it up…
kiki: now let’s wait for the msm to tell us how Obama hit it out of the park……
The AP already has a headline: Clinton emphatically says Obama can win White House
PHILADELPHIA – Hillary Rodham Clinton said emphatically Wednesday night that Barack Obama can win the White House this fall, undercutting her efforts to deny him the nomination by suggesting he would lead the party to defeat.
Here comes Jake Tapper with some exposition…claiming our girl was trying to appeal to superdelegates (well, duh…)
Was there another debate on tonight?
Plus ca change…
Can someone watch MSNBC so I don’t have to?
hlr & MABlue — who are we going to believe, AP & Mark Halperin or our own lying eyes?
They should have asked Obama about Auchi. That is going to come up in the general if he is the nominee. He is connected to a guy who provided arms to Saddam Hussein. In fact, the guy’s money most likely helped buy him his dream house.
]
See new post. Summarize debate in one sentence.
wow, abc is admitting that Hillary won according to the green line thing – 50% to Obama’s 23%. yay!!!
Gov Rendell just gave Hillary an A+ and Barack a B to B-
LOL @ Barack’s talking about the lumps he’s taken in this primary cycle. He ain’t seeeeen real combat to appreciate what he’s experienced so far is more like a thumb on the earlobe by comparison.
^
should read: thump
The College students at Penn say Hillary won hands down.
Didn’t watch didn’t listen, but spot-checked some usually unfriendly sources.
Impression: Hillary cleaned his clock, and reset it for him.
One gaffe may not affect the polls or the superdelegates. Two gaffes may not affect the polls or the superdelegates, but it gets their attention … does he make a habit of this?
Like second-impact syndrome concussions, Obama’s magic carpet ride is teed up for a crash. Will it happen before convention? Before election? before inauguration? Or on the clock, at 3AM?
katiebird: Mark Halperin has always given BO the higher mark. He’s got a crush on Obama.
Stupid factoid: I took driver’s ed at the high school Halperin graduated from.
I was at my book club and they threw me a surprise birthday party so I was not able to leave to catch the beginning at 8. Caught the last 20 minutes and she just blew him off the stage with knowledge and preparedness. He looked rather uncomfortable and answered as well as any teen in a high school debate. Anyone know where I can pick up the entire debate?
Another factoid: Halperin is a certified hack.
hrl, that’s interesting. I love hearing about those near-miss relationships.
Sorry I missed this party- I was over at NoQuarter.
Body language- Hillary- relaxed, pouised, confident, competent.
barack- his ears are a give – when he is angry- which he was for most of this debate- the top of his ears get very red. His jaw was clenched so hard i thought he was going to break a tooth. He has a big old vein that pops out on his forehead. He talks like a professor expecting the adoring grad student to spit his own words back at him so he can give an A and move on.
Pat, happy birthday!
Edwardian, I thought thumb on the earlobe was some exotic torture I had never heard of.
All, Hillary really did so well! I was watching on my laptop at the kitchen table. my husband was cooking and sorta watching and he said “wow, she really knows the issues! no hesitation at all”….he used to be a republican (W cured him of that) and now he loves Hillary.
Aaagh. This is the first debate in a long time I had to miss because I had some all day commitments. I’m about to read comments on here then go over to Taylor Marsh and TalkLeft right now. I hope everything went well but from the few comments I’ve read it sounds like our gal did well tonight
Happy Birthday, Pat!
Yeah Hillary!
hehe, all ya have to do to see who won, is pay a quick visit to ole DK to watch the meltdown goin on…*ahem*….hehe…they are goin’ nuts! Oh the joy, watching all the Obama worshippers over there whine and cry, but there isn’t any more Hillary supporters there for them to vent at. Can ya feel there pain?
I almost kinda feel sorry for them.
Almost. ; )
woo hoo
Go Hillary!
She had specifics: First I woould do this, then I would do this….
He had trouble even speaking in generalities. He practically circumnavigated the eaerth to come up with a simple yes or no answer.
She completely humiliated him with her knowledge of the issues….my gawd he is so unready….embarrasing
He looks stoned and fumbling.
She is sharp and full of plans! Wow. It’s on right now. I’m just surprised at how “unprepared” he is, seriously. This isn’t like the last time I watched one of these–his hand position stays by his own podium–less arrogance
O ps. Canada unafraid to unpack him even though American Press isn’t—–link:
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/2662
WS: Can someone watch MSNBC so I don’t have to?
after the debate, i checked out msnbc [more stupid nuts braying confabulations] briefly [all i could stand, honestly], and olbaman was fakey aligator tears boohooing about george having once worked for bill, after inquiring with an incredulous, “didn’t he?”
wankin’ crybaby. i guess he was sobbing into his matching tie back in the bad old days before viagra and missed how much george betrayed the first dude to be, after said employment.